Meu filho morreu, e o deus, sem meu desejo e sem meu conhecimento, ofendido nos abandonou. Meu reino sem um deus, agora, não durará muito tempo. Ó deus, eu lhe imploro, tenha piedade e regresse para nós.
Meu irmão está morto, e meu noivo, por sua vontade e para minha tristeza foi-se embora. Sem um noivo, pergunto, quem uma noiva poderá amar? Não castigue tua noiva! Ah, deus, regresse.
OEBALUS: My son is dead, and the god, without my wishing it and without my knowing it, has gone away offended. My kingdom without a god will not now survive for long. O god, I beg you, have mercy and turn back to us.
MELIA: My brother is dead, and my bridegroom, at your command, and to my sorrow,
has gone away. Without a bridegroom, whom, I ask, is a bride supposed to love? Do not punish your bride! Ah god, come back!
The pronunciation is obviously German but what else is it supposed to be?
It was first performed in Germany by German schoolboys, the German way is the only one that makes sense. I don't think that back then anyone used the Italian pronunciation outside Italy. Every major language has it's own system of Latin pronunciation, none of them has much to do with how the Romans actually spoke.
Ribadisco il concetto: nella professione (ardua e difficilissima) di cantante d'opera c'è anche la corretta dizione. Professionista è chi non si accontenta di una pronuncia sesquipedale e ricerca sempre di affinare, oltre alla voce, il suono delle parole che evoca. Basta pressapochismi... Si deve sempre migliorare.
Decisamente suggestivo e favolosissimo, bello nell'impatto visivo: ma chi insegna la corretta dizione del latino ecclesiastico a questi cantanti? Come si può - anche qui oltre a mille altri casi - sopportare l'ascolto di "atcve" invece di "atque", o "ricnum" invece di "regnum"? Insomma, anche la lingua vuole la sua parte. Dispiace vederla sempre sottovalutata così.
O well, nobody speaks Latin anymore anyway. I wonder how well I'd do having to remember all the libretto in a language I don't speak. That it is also pretty darn close to a language they'd be singing a lot, Italian, doesn't help with the confusion, I'd think.
What they're trying to communicate is heard and seen plain enough without having to be a Latin scholar, though. That's why that language is dead and Mozart's opera is still alive. The whole transcends the parts.
@sopranistica non credo sia possibile sapere come lo pronunciasse Mozart bambino. Ma allora c'era sicuramente più attenzione alla lingua e più rispetto per essa, viva o morta che fosse. In ogni modo, il dvd (che ho comprato) è decisamente interessante.
@feroceferace appunto, non lo sa quasi nessuno.. figurati se vanno a vedere se tutto è pronunciato correttamente. Già anche gli italiani per sentire opere in italiano hanno bisogno del libretto (e lo stesso gli altri madrelingua) sarebbe tutto lavoro "sprecato" se in austria si deve pronunciare correttamente il latino.. dai...
Brava Christiane!!!! sei una bravissima soprano e una meravigliosa donna!!! veramente sono felice di conoscerti ed ascoltarti. Ti voglio bene mia sorella tedesca!!!!
It could be far better, But let's be realistic, that version of Apollo et Hyacinthus, recorded for the label Phillips is quite disappointing, slow tempos, singers great (because there are legends like Rolfe-Johnson, and Arleen Auger), but with a total IGNORANCE of stylistic rules of the period...their cadenzas are quite boring, and with a total carence of creativity, Kiener and Karg, made ornaments appropiated for professional singers and good musicians. But maybe is just a matter of taste.
what a strange assessment. first you label these performers as having a total ignorance of stylistic rules (I wonder where you expertise comes from) and then you conclude with: "maybe it is just a matter of taste".. maybe you should choose less harsh words when trying to make a point.
I put that maybe is just a matter of taste because anyone who knows about HIP, would dissmised that recording, and for your infromation I'm a musician, and I'm studing about HIP's so my expertise comes from a Conservatory, Reading and Experience singing and also playing this kind of music
Ich hab die Aufführung bei den Salzburger Festspielen gesehen - sehr schön! Christiane, sei bravissima!! Un bacio und viel Erfolg für Deine weitere Karriere - ich hoffe, wir sehen uns wieder einmal wenn Du hier bist..
Great to hear you bought this! Christiane Karg is amazing indeed. And she is still so young. I hope I'll get to hear her sing live one of these days. :o)
Welcher Version soll man nun den Vorzug geben? - Dieser oder der anderen Version mit Allan Bergius? Die Entscheidung fällt schwer! Das Kind Bergius beeindruckt sehr mit seinem gesanglichen Können und der absoluten Reinheit! Hier sind es gute Profisänger! Das Timbre des Tenors gefällt mir hier besonders gut!
Prefer both versions at various time, bro. ;o) They're great in different ways. We're so lucky to get to see and hear how wonderful in different ways this little opera can be performed, ay? :o)
Both, Maximilian Kiener & Christiane Karg sing their parts very well. However, Ms. Karg looks too much old to be believable as Oebalus daughter. Mozart was 11 when he wrote his opera and it can be assumed that he beeing himself a little boy intended the roles of Melia, Hyacinth and the other boy as child characters to be played by choir boys. Thus I think the performance by the Tölzer boys fits his opera better. But tha´s my opinion.
I think it's more that Herr Kiener is too young to be Oebalus. Michel Lecocq, in the 1983 version, is older and has more gravity in his voice. The other characters read as teenagers to me, due to their impulsiveness and naivete. The Tölzers are a little younger than the original boy players, but I think you're right that they capture that naivete well. But remember that this is opera, where "suspension of disbelief" is the standard. Pretty much anybody can play any role.
Thanks for posting. I know the only other video of this work very well, the 1983 version featuring members of the Tölzer Knabenchor. [See the Related Videos]
John Dew's visualization looks like a Baroque acid trip, but the singing is exquisite. It's a good complement to the Tölzer version, and anyone who has the one should have the other.
The earlier version of "natus cadit" comes across well by comparison. Michel Lecoq is older and his Oebalus has more gravity than Maximilian Kiener's here. Christiane Karg has obvious advantages over 11-year-old Allan Bergius in the role of Melia, being an adult and a real female, and she has a lovely voice. But Bergius conveys Melia's heartbreak very poignantly.
Very apt analysis, treble. :o) I haven't seen the other video yet, actually. Would love to hear how Felix Fuchs, the original Melia, coped with his music. And he was supposedly only 15! ...and Mozart was 11 when he composed this. What a blessed musical age the 18th Century Europe was, ay? :o)
one of the best due I know so far
newFranzFerencLiszt 2 months ago
Meu filho morreu, e o deus, sem meu desejo e sem meu conhecimento, ofendido nos abandonou. Meu reino sem um deus, agora, não durará muito tempo. Ó deus, eu lhe imploro, tenha piedade e regresse para nós.
Meu irmão está morto, e meu noivo, por sua vontade e para minha tristeza foi-se embora. Sem um noivo, pergunto, quem uma noiva poderá amar? Não castigue tua noiva! Ah, deus, regresse.
chico00566 4 months ago
OEBALUS: My son is dead, and the god, without my wishing it and without my knowing it, has gone away offended. My kingdom without a god will not now survive for long. O god, I beg you, have mercy and turn back to us.
MELIA: My brother is dead, and my bridegroom, at your command, and to my sorrow,
has gone away. Without a bridegroom, whom, I ask, is a bride supposed to love? Do not punish your bride! Ah god, come back!
chico00566 4 months ago
OEBALUS: Natus cadit, atque Deus me nolente, nesciente
laesus abit. Regnum sine Numine iam non diu stabit: Numen! quaeso, flectere, et ad nos revertere.
MELIA: Frater cadit, atque meus te iubente, me dolente
sponsus abit. Sponsa sine complice quaeso, quid amabit? Noli sponsam plectere! Numen! ah regredere.
chico00566 4 months ago
REGNUM SINE NUMINE...
tenditinardua 5 months ago
...Today I saw this opera @Brava tv, great performance. Thanks for posting!! wonderfull..
pallaszero4 6 months ago
The pronunciation is obviously German but what else is it supposed to be?
It was first performed in Germany by German schoolboys, the German way is the only one that makes sense. I don't think that back then anyone used the Italian pronunciation outside Italy. Every major language has it's own system of Latin pronunciation, none of them has much to do with how the Romans actually spoke.
Thrax1982 8 months ago
Can you imagine an eleven year old making such musid today? Not saying it's impossible, but unlikely
phizzstar 1 year ago
Danke, habe Link gesetzt
MrConvivator 1 year ago
Ribadisco il concetto: nella professione (ardua e difficilissima) di cantante d'opera c'è anche la corretta dizione. Professionista è chi non si accontenta di una pronuncia sesquipedale e ricerca sempre di affinare, oltre alla voce, il suono delle parole che evoca. Basta pressapochismi... Si deve sempre migliorare.
feroceferace 1 year ago
I just saw this on Brava . Utter marvel
firebreathone3 1 year ago
Magnificent!
InternetFrame 1 year ago
beautiful.
newFranzFerencLiszt 1 year ago
Wirklich tolle Sopranistin und Tenor...
sopranistica 1 year ago
Thank you very much for this!!!
Simply marvelous... Mozart was an amazing child... i love his music so
This musical motifs are from Symphony 6, as well as happens with third violin concerto and Il re pastore
Thank you again
:)
Marlestor 1 year ago
Decisamente suggestivo e favolosissimo, bello nell'impatto visivo: ma chi insegna la corretta dizione del latino ecclesiastico a questi cantanti? Come si può - anche qui oltre a mille altri casi - sopportare l'ascolto di "atcve" invece di "atque", o "ricnum" invece di "regnum"? Insomma, anche la lingua vuole la sua parte. Dispiace vederla sempre sottovalutata così.
feroceferace 2 years ago
O well, nobody speaks Latin anymore anyway. I wonder how well I'd do having to remember all the libretto in a language I don't speak. That it is also pretty darn close to a language they'd be singing a lot, Italian, doesn't help with the confusion, I'd think.
What they're trying to communicate is heard and seen plain enough without having to be a Latin scholar, though. That's why that language is dead and Mozart's opera is still alive. The whole transcends the parts.
SDCmorg 2 years ago
@SDCmorg Ascendo tuum, cunnus!
nicksum29 1 year ago
@nicksum29 :oD
SDCmorg 6 months ago
@SDCmorg ; )
nicksum29 6 months ago
@feroceferace
anche a me mi dispiace la prononziazione tedesca del latino... ma cosi l'ha prononziato Mozart, forse questa è la ragione... ????
sopranistica 1 year ago
@sopranistica non credo sia possibile sapere come lo pronunciasse Mozart bambino. Ma allora c'era sicuramente più attenzione alla lingua e più rispetto per essa, viva o morta che fosse. In ogni modo, il dvd (che ho comprato) è decisamente interessante.
feroceferace 1 year ago
@feroceferace hai tutta la raggione...
sopranistica 1 year ago
@feroceferace appunto, non lo sa quasi nessuno.. figurati se vanno a vedere se tutto è pronunciato correttamente. Già anche gli italiani per sentire opere in italiano hanno bisogno del libretto (e lo stesso gli altri madrelingua) sarebbe tutto lavoro "sprecato" se in austria si deve pronunciare correttamente il latino.. dai...
newFranzFerencLiszt 1 year ago
Umm, at eleven i just liked to play video games, not really making operas...Mozart wa a genius
davlor86 2 years ago 3
Wspaniałe ! :)
czysciec 2 years ago
Bravaa, bravissimaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!! Te quiero y admiro mucho querida hermana!
FaVenegas 3 years ago 3
This has been flagged as spam show
does anyone want to chat?
why do all my friends call me a slut? :\ vf
branyizoltan 3 years ago
Brava Christiane!!!! sei una bravissima soprano e una meravigliosa donna!!! veramente sono felice di conoscerti ed ascoltarti. Ti voglio bene mia sorella tedesca!!!!
DivaVerdi 3 years ago 6
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Nothing special, flat and static. The orchestral sound is quite empty and singers don't express too much their roles.
liszt80 3 years ago
seriously ? i think it's pretty great !
beauveau63 3 years ago 8
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Try the version here on youtube from the channel DesAbends. It's FAR better!
liszt80 3 years ago
It could be far better, But let's be realistic, that version of Apollo et Hyacinthus, recorded for the label Phillips is quite disappointing, slow tempos, singers great (because there are legends like Rolfe-Johnson, and Arleen Auger), but with a total IGNORANCE of stylistic rules of the period...their cadenzas are quite boring, and with a total carence of creativity, Kiener and Karg, made ornaments appropiated for professional singers and good musicians. But maybe is just a matter of taste.
thebarroque 3 years ago 4
what a strange assessment. first you label these performers as having a total ignorance of stylistic rules (I wonder where you expertise comes from) and then you conclude with: "maybe it is just a matter of taste".. maybe you should choose less harsh words when trying to make a point.
olivierbruning 2 years ago
I put that maybe is just a matter of taste because anyone who knows about HIP, would dissmised that recording, and for your infromation I'm a musician, and I'm studing about HIP's so my expertise comes from a Conservatory, Reading and Experience singing and also playing this kind of music
thebarroque 2 years ago
well, Mozart wrote this at eleven years old, does that make it more acceptable to you? would u have been capable of writing an opera like this at 11?
davlor86 2 years ago
Ich hab die Aufführung bei den Salzburger Festspielen gesehen - sehr schön! Christiane, sei bravissima!! Un bacio und viel Erfolg für Deine weitere Karriere - ich hoffe, wir sehen uns wieder einmal wenn Du hier bist..
Wuestenfuchs1982 3 years ago 8
Great to hear you bought this! Christiane Karg is amazing indeed. And she is still so young. I hope I'll get to hear her sing live one of these days. :o)
SDCmorg 3 years ago
I'm pretty sure Wolfgang's parents cried when they listened to this for first time, they must have said "Oh my god, our son is an angel making music"
davlor86 3 years ago 2
Wunderbar eindrucksvoll interpretiert! - Bravo!
Welcher Version soll man nun den Vorzug geben? - Dieser oder der anderen Version mit Allan Bergius? Die Entscheidung fällt schwer! Das Kind Bergius beeindruckt sehr mit seinem gesanglichen Können und der absoluten Reinheit! Hier sind es gute Profisänger! Das Timbre des Tenors gefällt mir hier besonders gut!
tritonusgesang 3 years ago 4
Prefer both versions at various time, bro. ;o) They're great in different ways. We're so lucky to get to see and hear how wonderful in different ways this little opera can be performed, ay? :o)
SDCmorg 3 years ago 2
A simply and truly masterpiece!
rotesan 3 years ago 3
and he composed it when he was only 11...unbelievable
davlor86 3 years ago 4
Fantastico, impresionante es una lastima que en España, no se hagan operas con este rigor historico. Una vez más Felicidades Salburgo ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡
pitinbar 3 years ago 3
And I though Mitridate has some charming music,
Mozart is even younger here and the music is even more beautiful!? I love the Latin the costumes and the whole atmosphere of this staging.
Thrax1982 3 years ago 4
Both, Maximilian Kiener & Christiane Karg sing their parts very well. However, Ms. Karg looks too much old to be believable as Oebalus daughter. Mozart was 11 when he wrote his opera and it can be assumed that he beeing himself a little boy intended the roles of Melia, Hyacinth and the other boy as child characters to be played by choir boys. Thus I think the performance by the Tölzer boys fits his opera better. But tha´s my opinion.
ichmalealsobinich 4 years ago
I think it's more that Herr Kiener is too young to be Oebalus. Michel Lecocq, in the 1983 version, is older and has more gravity in his voice. The other characters read as teenagers to me, due to their impulsiveness and naivete. The Tölzers are a little younger than the original boy players, but I think you're right that they capture that naivete well. But remember that this is opera, where "suspension of disbelief" is the standard. Pretty much anybody can play any role.
fanofmozart 4 years ago 3
The 1983 version of this duet has now been posted on YouTube. It should be visible in the Related Videos window.
fanofmozart 4 years ago
Mozart was a boy of 11 years when composing this - imagine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MonacoFranze77 4 years ago 3
Part 1:
Thanks for posting. I know the only other video of this work very well, the 1983 version featuring members of the Tölzer Knabenchor. [See the Related Videos]
John Dew's visualization looks like a Baroque acid trip, but the singing is exquisite. It's a good complement to the Tölzer version, and anyone who has the one should have the other.
treblenewbie 4 years ago
Part 2: (500-word limit, aargh)
The earlier version of "natus cadit" comes across well by comparison. Michel Lecoq is older and his Oebalus has more gravity than Maximilian Kiener's here. Christiane Karg has obvious advantages over 11-year-old Allan Bergius in the role of Melia, being an adult and a real female, and she has a lovely voice. But Bergius conveys Melia's heartbreak very poignantly.
treblenewbie 4 years ago
Very apt analysis, treble. :o) I haven't seen the other video yet, actually. Would love to hear how Felix Fuchs, the original Melia, coped with his music. And he was supposedly only 15! ...and Mozart was 11 when he composed this. What a blessed musical age the 18th Century Europe was, ay? :o)
SDCmorg 4 years ago