World At War: Morning 3 of 5

[FightingForFreedom23]

9:30 wow eh, imagine being that guy, the first one off the boat of the first wave! That mustve been an incredible feeling, I dont know if Id be incredibly proud, or incredibly ready to shit my pants.

[youse12132]

@FightingForFreedom23

Maybe it was a bit of both?

[randy95023]

It would take someone as Maniacal as Adolph Hitler to cause the Soviet Union, Great Britain, USA and all the various nations to ally. Hitler was indeed frightening due to his sociopathic and sadistic personality. The fine details taken to assure victory at D-Day was partly due to the fear of failure. Just imagining a failure of the D-Day invasion is enough to make one shudder...

[mc0558]

@randy95023 You run the risk of putting it all on Hitler and missing the broader picture of the general staff's involvement. Hitler gave the generals the war they had been planning right down to the last batallion they thought necessary to win. The 1941 disaster at the gates of Moscow was their fault--they had relied on blitzkrieg to win it before Winter set in. Similarly, the atrocities were not just committed by SS; Wehrmacht soldiers were fully involved.

[randy95023]

@mc0558 I can't really disagree with you. The Wehrmacht was reprehensible in the East. As for the General Staff they were infected with Hitler's meddling and none of them dared to be "defeatist". Had it not been Hitler, but a more reasonable man I would bet the General Staff would have shown more reluctance. I guess we will never know...

[joshvn715]

@mc0558 Russia had their fair share of knickers on their way to Berlin too.

[rglinNewMex]

I cannot help but to observe that if someone from the future who knew nothing about WWII that the person would think of it as entirely a British operation, with a smattering of help from te U.S. The British Navy fought the Battle of the Atlantic, British paratroopers prepare to drop in France, Monty and the Brits alone defeated the Germans in North Africa. It goes on and on.

[tpno2005]

Except for the whole Pacific theater...

[fredhubner]

Although improvisation had to be used at D-day, it would be imposible to improvise without the massive planning and deploymet applied to that operation ...

[mc0558]

If the Western Allies had not landed on the French coast in the mid 1944, they would have met the Russian Army at the Channel instead of central Germany.

[pix042]

To be exact, they would have viewed the Russian Army through binoculars from across the Straights of Dover!

Also, it may have been "difficult" for Eisenhower to look a soldier in the eye knowing he may be sending him to his death but it did not stop the general doing it.

[mc0558]

I don't understand the last paragraph. Are you suggesting that General Eisenhower was a hypocrite, because if you are, you are mistaken. I don't think Ike had a difficulty looking soldiers going into combat in the eye. And of course he sent them--the Western allies had to invade France, the only question was when and where.

Germany had to be defeated, and, subsequent to that, as much of the world as possible had to spared the bizarre pleasures of Stalin's ruling it. For that men had to die.

[joshvn715]

Germany is NEVER DESTROYED without a TWO-FRONT attack

Ask Stalin about all those tears of his to have a

WESTERN FRONT, without It-- Stalin is screwed. If Hitler was more prudent and patience he finishes off Stalingrad and the rest of Russia.

but Hitler knew how he was pressed for time to succeed and push forward a doomed strategy.

[mc0558]

Joshvn - Germany was simply overwhelmed with enemies! The whole world was at war with Germany. You don't understand the productive miracle wrought in the new industrial cities westerh Siberia. The USSR alone was out-producing Germany and had the petrol too. The miracles of production that went on in the US which could supply the Brits, the Russians, the Chinese and its own 16 million man armed forces were incredible. Stalingrad in the larger context was incidental. Germany's fate was sealed!

[joshvn715]

Exactly what I am saying...

Germany was out-manned, if not and Germany SIMPLY had to concentrate on focused effort to repel if not dominate an enemy-- than THEY WOULD DO IT.

you just CAN'T BEAT all of Central Europe that Germany conquered without a

TWO-FRONT ATTACK and a

COALITION OF NATIONS.

The only reason USSR had a "productive miracle"

*was that a harsh winter gave them time to stop the Germans from massacring them.

*the Chinese were useless in wwII, that is why Mao could take over later

[mc0558]

From June 41 to June 44, except for bombing, there was virtually only one front for Germany--the Eastern Front. Russia would have taken Germany from the East if necessary. They had worn the Wehrmacht down by. Without the Russians, I doubt that D-Day would have succeeded. But eventually even the Brits and the Yanks would have beaten Germany without the Russians too.

The Chinese War is not well-known but Mao's Army and the Russians beat the Japanese Kwantung Army, FDR's main concern at Yalta.

[joshvn715]

Russia and THE WEST HAD TO WORK TOGETHER.

Russia had mounted a DEFENSE to stop Germany from conquering all of Russia!!!

When you are AT THE BRINK OF DESTRUCTION you are only looking for a miracle to save you. And that miracle was the Russian winter and VERY VERY poor German planning.

When a miracle saves you from DEFEAT, you CANNOT BEAT Germany by yourself.

Stalin called the west endlessly to establish a frontal attack on the west to relieve pressure on him to mount an offensive.

[mc0558]

Hitler's s&m relationship with Germany: by not preparing for Winter fighting, he was telling the Wehrmacht, "You either conquer Russia in 4 months or You freeze to death." His gift to Germany when the Wehrmacht were hurled back before the gates of Moscow in December, 41? He declared war in the USA. Message: "There's no way out for you. You either conquer or die." By pitting them against one enemy after another he wedded them to himself "till death do us part." "For you there is no exit!!!

[joshvn715]

If Germany could simply REPEL just the Russians or the West than they COULD DO IT.

One-on-one GERMANY and cont. Europe BEATS RUSSIA

But a two front war is INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT to defend and if it wasn't for that, the Germany is not defeated.

The reason we DROPPED TWO ATOMIC BOMBS was because the Russia after expelling Japan from their sovereign areas wanted no apart and could spare so little for an invasion of Japan.

Rus. used us for D-Day to overwhelm Germany but NEVER HELPED with Japan.

[mc0558]

You are mistaken! Russia polished off the Japanese Army in China and would have assisted us with the invasion of Japan. But with the atomic bomb Truman saw a way to deprive Russia of joint occupation of Japan. If the Japanese surrendered before the Russian intervention--the date of which Roosevelt had negotiated with Stalin at Yalta--the Russians would have no excuse to seize terribory, but the Japanese held out too long. Russia invaded China and helped the Chinese Communists take over there.

[joshvn715]

Okay lets clarify some things..

Russia did not WANT TO FIGHT with Japan and aid America AS THEY WERE ALREADY FIGHTING GERMANY

Russia did not DECLARE WAR on Japan until Aug 8 of 45

AFTER HIROSHIMA WAS BOMBED

Roosevelt, Truman BOTH TRIED to bring in Russia to Japan front but they refuse and had good reason:

SINCE they lost the more men than all of the West combined and Germany had decimated their country.

Russia could not aid anybody and NO RUSSIA HATED CHINA

Stalin hated MAO as bad as Trotsky

[mc0558]

Yes, let's do clarify some things! The promise that President Roosevelt extracted from Stalin at the Yalta Conference was that 3 months after the surrender of Germany, the USSR would enter the war with Japan. And exactly 3 months following Germany's surrender to the USSR on May 8, 1945, the USSR declared war on Japan.

Truman had nothing to do with Russias going to war with Japan; Roosevelt had accomplished that just before he died. Stalin didn't help Mao! Where did you get that?Of course he did!

[joshvn715]

Both Roosevelt and Truman wanted to GET RUSSIA INTO JAPAN as soon as possible and ONLY until TWO DAYS after the atomic bomb was dropped.

NOOOO Stalin unlike Trotsky did not LOOK TO SPREAD COMMUNISM, and Stalin's focus was not on world communism but the WELL-BEING of Russia.

Look up Russia China relations

Soviet Union ONCE SUPPORTED Mao enemies KMT Kai-Shek,

Yes Russia did free Manchuria and give weapons

but SINO-SOVIET SPLIT followed it all.

Mao and Stalin don't like each other at all lol

[mc0558]

You are quite right for the 30's Stalin: Stalin pressured Mao to get on with the KMT, but not until the Xian Incident was Chiang willing to do so. After WWII, however, Stalin did support Mao. As Malinovsky withdrew from Manchuria, he handed over his positions to Mao's forces.(Chiang having driven them out of Yenan.) If it hadn't have been for the Russians, the Reds would likely have been defeated at this time. Nobody wanted Russia in Japan, but prior to the A-bomb, it was thought necessary.

[joshvn715]

Agreed with everything you are saying now but YOU ARE MISTAKEN about Stalin and Mao, Stalin is NOT Trotsky. Stalin is a paranoid tyrant and only use communism to secure his power STALIN despised the Chinese and did heinous to Asiatic ethnics groups within the USSR.

But Stalin's contempt for Mao, is spawned from a intense rivalry they shared. And it was a mutual feeling from Mao and ONLY UNTIL after Stalin died did Russia and China talked but THAT WAS FOLLOWED

BY SINO-SOVIET SPLIT

[mc0558]

What I am saying now is what I have been saying all along. As for Stalin being paranoid, a paranoid is someone who thinks he has enemies and doesn't. Stalin had plenty of enemies. I do not see Trotsky as much different from him. They were both Russian revolutionaries--prepared to murder and lie about it for power. Stalin never signed a mass execution order without getting the rest of the Politburo to sign it. The Bolshevik Party was a terrorist conspiracy: Lenin; Trotsky; Zinoviev--all of them!

[mc0558]

The difference between Stalin and the others (Trotsky) was that in addition to being a Leninist revolutionary, he was a Georgian bandit. Ruthlessness, calculating your foes, wrecklessness with lives, all the while playing Robin Hood was second nature to him. He spoke the language of the urbanized Russian muzhik. Trotsky couldn't deal with such a person to save his life!

Paranoia? If you bump off a man you don't have to worry about him getting at you in the future. So he's innocent; so what?

[mc0558]

@joshvn715 The whole business about "Socialism in one Country" versus "World Revolution" was largely a fiction with which Stalinists beat Totskyists. Stalin wanted the world socialist Revolution too and Trotsky was willing to accept Socialism in the Soviet Union alone if that were all that was possible. Despite his belief that China was too backward for proletarian revolution, Stalin did support Mao over Chiang but urged strategic compromises.

[joshvn715]

@mc0558 No no no no, where did you get this foolishness from?

Stalin did not want a WORLD REVOLUTION! Stalin, Roosevelt got a long just fine for a reason- they were pragmatist and made concessions to each other. Stalin was no idealist (not a true believer buddy) and would spit on Trotsky sooner than shake Hitler's hand :D

Don't listen to Churchill who was paranoid about world communism with his impending oust by Labour, other than the Iron Curtain- Man of Steel cared about Russia not commies.

[mc0558]

@joshvn715 No one here is an idealist! Leninists are dialectical materalists, not idealists. The world proletarian revolution is a fact, not something to be dreamed about. It is a consequence of the contradicitons inherent in capitalism, part of the dialectic of history and inevitable. They all believed that, including Stalin. His arrangements with Roosevelt was temporary maneuver made necessary by the exigencies of the war on fascism.

[joshvn715]

@mc0558 Lenin advocated the ideals of world revolution of communist allied governments, not a totalitarian regime in Moscow to govern Eastern Europe under a "communist" guise.

Stalin rather deal with fascists than actual communists. That is why Roosevelt respected him, they came to terms and Keenan's containment of Russia was so applicable. The same application does not apply to China or Khrushchev's administration.

[joshvn715]

@mc0558 Stalin would go on to hate Mao with his dying breath, and once he died Russia finally wanted to INFLUENCE world communism but, it was just a response to American sphere of influences in Europe and allies like COMMUNIST YUGOSLAVIA.

Those same SLAVS hated Stalin more than the Nazis look Utasche and Josep Tito a devout communist loved Americans like his fellow Croats :D.

Stalin was hated by his contemporary commies OKAY.

[joshvn715]

Yes without Russia, China would not have been communist as QUICKLY but would be so eventually.

No one wanted Russia IN CONTINENTAL EUROPE but it was necessary to have them or else the west loses, vice versa.

We needed Russia in Japan and Russia did not want to be involved even though OUR PRESENCE in WWII allowed Russia to spared from all of Germany's wrath.

Stalin DESPISED any communist leader/rival ANYWERE he wanted absolute power ask Josep Tito how Americans the best of his friends lolll

[mc0558]

@joshvn715 The unity of the Party and of the international Communist movement had to be protected.The CPSU was the first to come to power, making the territory of the former Russian Empire "the Socialist motherland". "Stalin" was the symbol of Soviet power. You say this shows his egotism and thirst for absolute power. Stalinists said he was humble but no fool, and his power rested on genius and the proletariat's faith in him.

[joshvn715]

@mc0558 Trotsky was the leader of international communism. Khrushchev attempted to foster that but STALIN could careless about communism

ONLY that it secured TOTALITARIAN POWER and restored RUSSIAN DOMINANCE.

That is all communism was good for, everything else was worthless to him

Stalinists, Russians, human beings KNOW faith in Stalin was ABSOLUTE and any question:

the Cheka find you or pull a name out of a phone book for a quota mandated purge- Just the same... you're dead thats STALIN :D

[mc0558]

@joshvn715 Where do you dream up this nonsense? Certainly you are not getting it from decent scholarship. No one has ever denied Stalin's commitment to Marxism-Leninism or that for 30 years he led the international communist movement. Trotsky had his followers and set up his own 4th International. However the 3rd continued under Stalin's leadership and was the more influential.

[joshvn715]

@mc0558 Communists around rejoice at Stalin's death, his end ushered a new movement international communism. Stalin was a loyal aide of Lenin, but a completely different leader.

Answer for Trotsky about Stalin's commit to communism. Stalin would resign to Hitler's occupation of Russia before associate himself with Trotsky.

[joshvn715]

@mc0558 what 3rd and 4th international movement ... confused?

Are you saying that Trotsky and Stalin were apart of some far-fetched, cohesive plan to lead communism together? :) ... he then killed him, you do know that?

[joshvn715]

mc0558 there are some holes in your history...

Mao had NO HELP from Russia to take over if anything he was helped by Americans aid to the ravaged country.

In hindsight America would have felt it best to have Japan continue its hold over China but in the end it all worked out loll

But AGAIN, Stalin would never, EVER aid China and wanted nothing to do with Mao.

Russia was incapable at the time of being involved in Japan and did not WANT TO BE.

Russia seized lands they were theirs in past.

[mc0558]

No sir, there are holes in YOUR history!

In the final approach to his taking the whole country, Mao took control ofManchuria! Who had just conquered Manchuria from the Japanese? The USSR! It occupied Manchuria when Mao marched to victory in the South and supplied him during the closing period of the Chinese Civil War.

What you say about Russia being incapable of fighting war with Japan in 1945 is total nonsense. Russia had the largest and the best equipped Army in the world in 1945

[joshvn715]

Russia most certainly did NOT have the best equip lol, ask a Russia soldier and why Germans believed them to be indestructible, because they beat people with half a bullet lol.

Sorry, Russia did provide help to Manchuria, my bad

You are wrong about SINO-SOVIET SPLIT, how Russia purposely EVADED WAR WITH JAPAN until continental Europe was secure.

Russia to this day has some of the Jap. lands

Mao victory over KMT was ONCE slowed by Russia and later they helped him but MAO-Stalin hate OKAY

[joshvn715]

Just made sure, Japan and Russia NEVER in world war II engaged in any battle or confrontation.

I think you are referring to Sino Japanese war??

and Russia was embarrassed in that.

Why do you think Russia was so strong military before 1950??

They weren't and became formidable after the collapse of empires from the Ottomans, Austro-Hungary, and Germany.

Then and only then did Russia step in as a world power but they were still a crippled one....

[mc0558]

You clearly know nothing about Marshall Malinovsky's campaign in Manchuria! The Soviets crushed the 700 thousand man Kwantung Army in a matter of days!! Stalin was of course a clever man. He didn't want Truman reproaching him for spreading Communism to China. So, Malinovsky handed over to the Chinese Communists the weapons they had captured from the Japanese, plus assorted lend lease trucks and jeeps, plus a few T-34 tanks. The USSR secured Mao his victory over the KWT.

[NYerintransit]

@mc0558 Without having to fight a war on two fronts, the Germans might have been able to stop a Russian advance into their own country.

[mc0558]

@NYerintransit That is a mighty "might". By D-Day, Germans had left Soviet territory. The last barriers were the Vistula and the Oder. Yet the last months of war were bloddiest. If it had ended in mid44, millions of lives would have been saved. However, Soviet war leaders were now veteran tacticians of the highest caliber; Soviet weaponry, abundant and of excellent quantity. They had fuel; Germany didn't. Everyone could see that USSR's victory assured.

[joshvn715]

@mc0558 Hmm why does Hitler leave Russia... probably because the Entire English Army and American forces are on their way to liberate conquered French and other national resistance fighters.

Millions died because the Soviets kicked, scratched and crawled to survive and valiantly expend an UNTOLD number of lives versus the world's finest army- Ze Germans :).

German leaders planned badly, poor resources management, never took care of Lebensraum but on a battlefield Russia gets plowed each time

[mc0558]

@joshvn715 Why did the Wehrmacht beat a retreat out of Russia in early 1944? Because the British and Americans were on their way? Hahahaha! That's a good one. I suppose they lost Poland, East Prussia, West Prussia, Saxony and Berlin for the same reason. :--)

You are a comedian!

[joshvn715]

@mc0558 No... because the Wehrmacht was foolishly led and they had to prepare for a two-front war of Hitler's fortress.

Russia is bigger than Leningrad and Moscow, why did Germany conquer all of Western Europe and take Kiev in less than a year?

[TheFett007]

9:01 That's the east end of Juno Beach near Saint-Aubin-sur-Mer, and those men are from the Canadian North Shore Regiment of New Brunswick.

[askjiir]

The German batteries fired at allied ships on D day? Haven't heard of it.

Any particular incidents or ships sunk?

[NamVetBuck]

Yep, an American destroyer , the lead one for the invasion, was sunk by German battery fire. The next destroyer hit, and wiped out , the German battery with 5 inch gunfire.

[Joker3797]

Very good Series, thank you for putting it up. :)