I supported you. I was thrilled when you kicked Colman's phony ass.
But Al, did you really vote for the National Defense Authorization Act?
Did you do this? You voted for a law that allows the Military to arrest American citizens and confine them indefinitely without due process on suspicion alone?
The provision is so broad that it can and will be used to quell political dissent or simple vandalism?
You and your fellow representatives have committed treason against the American people.
@Larkinchance Franken voted against the NDAA. He even wrote an article on The Huffington Post called 'Why I Voted Against the National Defense Authorization Act'.
He passed an early version of it, hoping that the offending clauses would get altered in the house, but when the bill came back unchanged, he voted against it.
I can tell John Thune went a few semesters at Politician Institute of America based on his exquisite training in the usage of hand gestures and pointing. He understands the importance of folding the index finger and pointing in a non-threatening manner to emphasize a point, yet with the gusto to show that he means business. He lets me know that he's the authoritarian over me. He's well-oiled and he scores an A!
what a shame there isn't more like al franken in the broken down "filibuster" senate. john thune is owned by the insurance companies. that's the simple fact. conservatives fought for a system that's 37th in the world, that costs twice as much for consumers as the second highest in germany, and we literally let people die without preventable care. in the so-called "greatest country in the world". they voted to literally let americans die so insurance companies could retain obscene profits.
Funny. The first "benefit" he cites is "prohibiting lifetime limits on benefits".
Ah...isn't that BAD?
Other benefit: a tax credit for small businesses?
Okay, Smalley--which bill are you reading from--the stimulus plan? WHAT do "tax credits for businesses" have to do with the "health care" bill?
And finally...if The Joker's so sure about benefits happening right away, why not tell us exactly WHERE these benefits are in the bill? As in: WHAT PAGE?
So, where are all those benefits you promised us in your pretty speech? All lies from the communists that are masquerading as democrats. Doesn't matter though, these clowns are quickly being made obsolete as the executive branch usurps their power. Isn't it interesting that a great number of dead people voted for Al Frankenstein here?
@EngineerMK2004 The benefits don't apply to 100% of the population, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Why don't you actually research the benefits involved in the HCR bill? I think you might actually like some of them.
@ssutton711 doesn't "universal" mean 100%? Socialism and its promises are lies from power hungry frauds, told to the useful idiots that punch ballots for the lie. The progressives regard you as retarded children. They think they know what's best for you and are willing to use all the force they have against you if you disagree.
didn't read the Health Care bill? I guess Franken is referring to the Health Care Bill which the Democrats created behind closed doors, locking Republicans out; the same Health Care Bill which Nancy Pelosi said Congress had to pass, so that we can find out what is in it. In the past year and a half, the Democrats, including the Disillusioner-in-Chief, have proven they are totalitarians at heart. They violate their oaths of office on a regular basis. Your means determine the end you reach.
That "magic" supermajority you said you needed in the video: "60 Votes." Remember? The one where Senator Clinton suggested that Al could be that 60th vote? Well, you GOT your 60th vote some time ago....via Suart Smalley himself. So tell me why, at the time of this video, you were still MONTHS away from passing a bill that won't even go into full effect until AFTER Obama leaves office?
If this is progress, I'd hate to see your version of gridlock!
@pacmantab because Joe Lieberman (an independent) voted for the insurance companies down the line. There were never 60 democrats in the Senate under Obama.
@ssutton711 says "there were never 60 democrats in the Senate under Obama."
Really?
Straight from democrats.senate.gov after the bill FINALLY got passage: "The United States Senate witnessed an historic moment this morning, as 60 Democratic Senators cast their votes in favor of passing health."
Don't get me wrong, I am actually happy not all the Democrats are drinking the Koolaid, as it were, I just think its funny that, despite these "60 Votes," not a whole lot has gotten done....
@pacmantab 1. Lieberman caucuses with the Democrats but he is actually an independent (and is totally in the pocket of the health insurance industry). 2. When the bill "FINALLY" passed, Scott Brown had already been seated and thus there weren't even 60 democratic Senators even if you counted Lieberman.
So, @ssutton711, you admit your own party, your own advocates, are liars.
And that, my friends, is what is called an EPIC FAIL.
The promise of "change" has been met - despite a supermajority - with little more than gridlock and rumblings within their own party....and now the excuses and your baseless qualifiers come rolling in as you face losing the momentum you gained less than two years ago. Sad, really....
People laughed about Franken running but you watch this and I think he is awesome. We could have had Coleman who would be standing on the floor reading off the index card of GOP talking points that AHIP typed up for him, but instead we got a fighter to hold the lying sons of bitches' feet to the fire. Voters won when Franken won, even though the GOP were pussies about losing the election.
@rthunder1000 Although your reply kept with the theme of humor, it failed to define the reasons in which you believe what you believe. People like you remind me of the town drunk; spouting words with slurred meanings and origins straight from the bottom of the bottle.
ETericET, are you in a profession that doesn't pay you anything?
Doctors provide a service, in return they ask for compensation so they can pay their bills.
As far as health care goes, a simple clinic visit is very affordable. If our health insurance were like auto insurance and we didn't expect them to cover everything for every doctor visit, that would be very affordable as well.
Where do I say they should not be payed for there service? It's easy to think you won a discussion when you make it up yourself. The doctors get payed quite well here with our public healthcare. Our companies can and do compete because they are not saddled with the costs of insuring there employees. Your just full or GOP talking points. Hey why don't you privatise police, firemen and the military there? Some things should be run by the goverment. We pay a lot less for drugs and services here
Yes they get paid, fair enough. I don't know where your public health care is, but if you like it, then you are in the right country. I am not looking to take away what you have. But I also appreciate what I have. Yes, I have used it, yes I was happy with the care, and yes, my insurance company covered the costs just as stated in the contract. I don't want mine changed either. Health care is but one small problem saddling our companies here. We regulate the heck out of them.
You can not compare police, firemen and the military to health care. They are services that we receive indirectly. On the other hand, we have direct relations with our health care providers. Whether I choose to see my physician 1 or 12 times a year, that is my choice. If I am in charge of paying for it, then I will moderate it a lot better than if a third party is footing the bill.
All I ask is that we have the ability to freely trade for services rendered.
Actually you can compare them to health care. 100 years ago "fire insurance" wasn't just something to replace the value of your belongings in case of fire. It was a fee paid to private fire companies so that IF your house caught on fire, they would come and put it out. Much like modern health insurance.
Anyway, you must be thrilled with the final version of the bill. It'll let you keep your insurance with more options if you want, and will reduce the deficit. Everything you want, right?
Health care providers provide a service and ask a compensation so they can pay bills. What is wrong with that?
A simple appointment with a Dr. is very affordable and does not require an insurance claim. If health insurance were treated more like auto insurance, it would also be affordable to most.
A civilization requires we all pull our own. Giving products and services to individuals makes them lazy and dependent. Not the direction to take.
If I read the data right, red states have more people on welfare. Maybe you shouldn't bring in public healthcare. Looks like a good way to get rid of blind faith republicans.
@gerfunked this bill isn't to deny money to doctors. It's to reign in the abuses of health insurers, who have the perverse incentive to control health care: they win most for their shareholders if they take in more premiums and pay out for less care. They have armies of lawyers (and now, lobbyists,) and they love you when you send your check every month, but when you get sick and make a claim, they start working on how to drop you. That's a perverse system.
@gerfunked Auto insurance is exactly the model that this version of HCR uses-- everyone has to buy into insurance exchanges and in the end it's not even clear that insurance companies will lose money under the new arrangement (doctors likely will).
Ok rzr, I know you don't respond well to reason and logic, but how about PICTURES?
You said:
"You are a whack job to claim Republicans grow government more than Democrates." (I'm assuming by "Democrates" you meant "Democrats," not some ancient Greek philosopher)
I present a graph (in color!) showing national debt increases over the past 25 years:
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graphs? please. Trilliions of dollars spent (that the US does not have) and you still try to justify yourself. You are like the only person still believing in this crap. You need to rely on graphs that are most always being manipulated (see global warming & al gore) BECAUSE you FAILED to show where health care is covered in the Constitution.
Wow, you're so right. How could I possibly be foolish enough to think that ACTUAL NUMBERS showing the national debt exploding under Republican Presidents and dropping or barely moving under Democratic Presidents could possibly stand up to your meaningless rhetoric that the opposite is true? Tell you what, if you think the numbers are manipulated, prove it.
You have talking points. I have actual numbers. If you want to debunk me, you're going to have to do better than crying, "No it isn't!"
Ok, so now that the final version of the bill is about to be voted on and the CBO report says that it will actually REDUCE THE DEFICIT by $138 billion over the first 10 years and $1.2 trillion over the following 10, are you ready to admit that all your talking points about how Obama is going to destroy the economy with his "14 trillion bill" were dead wrong? I take it now that it will both insure 32 million new people AND save the taxpayers money you'll be 100% behind it, right?
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private sector job growth? are you kidding me?? ha ha ha!! are you pointing to the Carter/ Obama miracle of private sector job creation? Or, maybe, BJ Clinton's tech bubble and Fed manipulation of the MS leading to the real estate implosion?? You are one crazy liberal -- kinda like the alien that just wont die.
Why do you believe government somehow changes human nature and makes men into angels? Why do you believe human nature can somethow be controlled by government programs? Why can government exist without corruption but capitalism cant?
rzrbckgrl, Why do you make assumptions? Because it's the only way you come to your illogical conclusions. I don't believe government makes people good. People are bad without government. Human nature is to take for himself... You don't need government to do that. There is corruption in everything... But you are demonizing Government over Big business, and neither is better than the other. Again, when you talk about human nature, it doesn't change with venue.
could you explain how the voting blocks in VA, NJ and MA all swing right in Obama's first year? Can you explain this as you tell me how cults are formed?
I am finally reading your prose. I actually would like you to "go on". Could you begin by defining the 'Bush doctine' - that is, if you can find a 'Bush doctrine' for me, please? Then, while defining ineptitude, explain why only 45% of Americans feel he deserves a 2nd term. (as per a 2/15/10 CBS poll).
I got to say though. I find Franken refreshing. Facts are facts. For dishonest senators who try to spin it out of proportions and stall the entire bill on issues that are not factual. And on top of that they use terms to portray a wrong image, in which the average american only understands in the setting of communism and eugenics. Who have no real understanding what these terms really entails.
Outright shameful. But thats the US two party system for you.
During my last night's shift in the ER, I had the pleasure of evaluating a patient with an expensive shiny gold tooth, multiple elaborate expensive tattoos, a very expensive brand of tennis shoes, and a new cellular telephone equipped with her favorite R&B tune for a ringtone. Glancing over the chart, one could not help noticing her payer status: Medicaid. (Continued on next post)
She smokes more than one costly pack of cigarettes every day and, somehow, still has money to buy beer. And our Congress expects me to pay for this woman's health care?
Our nation's health care crisis is not a shortage of quality hospitals, doctors,or nurses. It is a crisis of culture a culture in which it is perfectly acceptable to spend money on vices while
refusing to take care of one's self or, heaven forbid, purchase health insurance. A culture that thinks "I can do whatever I want to because someone else will always take care of me".
So your worried about those criminals who get healthcare and not those millions of average american who can't afford it? Do I get your intentions right with that? Not to mention those tens of millions who are under-insured, on top of that you have insurance companies who in retrospect examines everything about your personal life to stick you with the bill.
To give criminals healthcare is the price you pay for a universal healthcare system. But hey, you continue it this way.
I believe people should be responsible for their own actions and choices. If the government is always there to bail people out, there are no consequences for poor choices. Life's hard, it should be harder if you're stupid.
The best thing we can do for the poor, is to make it uncomfortable to be poor. Ben Franklin
Should there be consequences for bad luck as well? Because thats what you get on the coattail of that ideology. Not everything is in your power to prevent. Like if you work on a factory for 15 years and it's all you know. You suddenly get the boot because their outsourcing the factory to china. Thats a consequence of your system as well. That person made the wrong job choices. Isn't he technically to blame himself? Fact is. Your ideal will only lead to people being more cynical and calculated.
Why do think the factories are moving out of the US? The intrusion of governmental regulatory control and high taxes make it impossible for companies to make a profit. You can thank idiotic leftists like your boy Stuart Smalley for that too.
The reason why companies move their factories to china is because it has a favorable trade deal with the US and their workers expenses are 1-100 of that of the US. Mostly due to extremely low wages. But also due to the state having the burden of benefits like pensions and illness compensation.
Now. If you think it's due to taxes and regulations your a idealistic moron. I'm sorry but it's true. On top of that you had a government who gave tax incentives for companies who undercut your *cont*
industrial capacity. Secondary sector is one of the most important economic growth sectors. Now that you have for 30 years grown the financial sector on borrowed growth in an imaginary laissez faire economy that doesn't work. You suddenly find yourself in a pickle. Not to mention the fact more related to the topic at hand that you have a gdp expenditure on healthcare that is 16% of your entire economy. Guess what it is in my country where we get paid vacations to the Mediterranean *cont*
if you have certain skin and skeleton illnesses, etc, etc, etc. We pay 8%. You wish you had the same kind of coverage I have. And if I am unemployed I still have the same benefits. If I'm rich I pay for percentage wise for it. But that is only fair. You have greater means to handle it.
Fact is, the US healthcare system is inefficient, unresponsive, give lower life expectancy and MORE expensive, even twice the price of any other system. For what? Your own egocentric? YOU pay for it either way.
Weird... the top 10 counties in the US with the greatest unemployment have all been under Democratic control for at least 10 years. Leftist Socialist policies clearly work in favor of industrial productivity. Go Obama!
First of. I want you to read up on what socialist means. That Obama is a socialist might be true. But not in the definition you think of. It's nothing wrong that the government takes on tasks on the behalf of everyone. It's also funny how my own socialist country manages to hold our unemployment around 3%.
Now. On the counties. To assume that counties are predominantly responsible for their own economic growth is untrue. It's mostly done on a state level. And you know that. *cont*
We've got about 25 million illegal aliens I'd like to send to your Socialist country. I'm sure whatever socialist country you live in doesn't have 300 million people in it.
Also, I don't believe your country has become the greatest nation on earth, only to be torn down by an apologist socialist, with unattainable, pie in the sky ideals. Just because you screwed up your country, doesn't mean you should screw up mine. You shouldn't even have a say...
Fair point, scale matters. But look at France and Germany who both have universal healthcare and a great number of illegals. Who spend only around 6-8% of gdp on covering everyone. And not by under insuring and denying care.
Your problem is that you don't want to pay taxes for coverage. But one pay for it either way, and you twice as much.
Secondly. Stop claiming your country is the greatest nation on earth. It's hugely arrogant and highly subjective. It's also very selective on the criteria.
Ah, right. We revert back to ww2. How surprised am I? The last refuge of someone who don't have any further arguments.
But I want you to think of two things. One, when France was invaded in May 1940, it lost 350,000 soldiers in a month. Thats only 100k less than the US lost the entire war. Okinawa and all. Secondly. You arrived fashionably late as always. Reaping the profits in the meanwhile by trading towards both. You also didn't lose your entire manufacturing base as a result of the war.
But look. I'm not going to continue these childish arguments if your only going to divert at historical non issues. Which have nothing to do with the argument at hand. You want to discuss healthcare and economics assosiated to that. Fine. I could even discuss military history with you, but to it's own time. Even modern military doctrines and how it relates to europe-us relations today. But I'm only going to do that if your going to behave and don't spit these uninformed arguments.
Secondly. Those who are hardest hit this downturn is industrial exporting job market. That mostly in cars and metals. The greatest hit state unemployment wise is Michigan. Who also hold a great number of those counties you talk about. But it's only natural that Democrats hold those seats. It's in the New England area and it's a dominating Democrat area. We also know blue collar jobs mostly vote democrat. To assume anything from your statement is outright wrong. Educate yourself instead of *cont*
Spit out every Fox News and Republican talking points of the week.
If you like. You can try to look up the term laissez faire and try to understand how that term relates to the ideals which was responsible for the recession you now find yourself in. And you can look at those countries who have run a Keynesian economics and see how they have faired in this crisis. Either way you look at it. Having a strong government saved the US economy last fall by doing the TARP. Think about that mate.
You think the Communist state of China doesn't have regulations towards it's business sector? You don't think they have taxes? On the face of it the US have high corporate taxes. But it also have so many loopholes that any medium sized company hires accountants to limit their taxes. The larger you are, the more you can avert taxation.
On the ease of doing business index, the US scores very well actually. A lot higher than China mind you. So you tell me, why do they outsource?
the new world order has hijacked our republic..we need to all stand up and defend the constitution..the time is now..get informed..check out my page for info
I support the Disabled American Veterans charity group. I have lots of stationary from them, which they sent in gratitude. Anyone who donates to the DAV knows what I'm talking about.
The vets you claim to know are as ignorant as you about the V.A. The V.A. is the only socialized segment in the American health care system! The gov't owns the hospitals and employs the doctors & nurses. So thanks for the complement about their care, asshat.
Try meeting some vets who know how the Repugs abused their loyalty. Meet Iraq Veterans Against the War. That's ivaw(dot)org. Repugs love the soldier, hate the veteran. The little Bush bastard created a scandal at Walter Reed Hospital. The Washington Post exposed Bush's neglect in a series of articles in February 2007. Don't read much, do you?
You know; it's funny how the military (including veterans) ALWAYS vote about 85 to 95 percent for Republicans. Are you completely out of touch, or just ignorant?
An ABCNews article ("The Veteran Vote - an Update"), dated Dec 24, 2008, reports that vets favored McCain by only a 54-44% margin. That's a far cry from 75 or 95%. Why am I not surprised you're lying? Veterans are figuring out they've been duped into fighting corporate wars.
And why shouldn't I give Repugs the back of my hand? Like you they're ignorant as hell and delight in others' misery. It was fun to watch Obama trounce 140 House Repugs in a remarkable debate on Jan 29 2010.
The constant juvenile attempt at back handed humor with reference to Republicans shows your lack of intelligence and logic. Let me leave this quote with you on my last correspondance... From someone who was a bit smarter than you are; The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill
Churchill didn't know squat about health care. That's why he lost in a landslide in 1945. The new Prime Minister instituted socialized health care. Britain's National Health Service is very much alive to this day. No British politician of either major party dares to attack it.
The World Health Organization ranks U.S. health care 37th -- far from the best. 45,000 Americans die every year because of privatized health insurance -- and you like it that way. Shameless.
He also said this..."A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government."
Thomas Jefferson
Define Irony... Arguing American Politics with a European Socialist who knows nothing about the freedoms the United States provides. How's that 10% and growing unemployment in your country working for you?
Your quote from Jefferson's 1st inaugural in 1801 is incomplete. He said: "A wise and frugal government, WHICH SHALL RESTRAIN MEN FROM INJURING ONE ANOTHER, which shall leave them OTHERWISE [my emphasis] free to regulate ...."
That's the problem with arguing with a little fascist like you. You twist everything, even Jefferson, to fit your corporate agenda. Jefferson was aware of the threat to democracy posed by corporations. He didn't contradict the quote I cited.
And another thing. Once and for all, I'm a Keynesian, not a socialist. There are certain things government does better, and other things the private sector does better. Government clearly does health care better. You see it in V.A. hospitals, Medicare, Britain's National Health Service, and in every industrialized country except ours. That's why our system is ranked 37th in the world!
The 10% unemployment is the result of 30 years of trickle down economics and insane trade agreements. Tax cuts for the rich do not translate into investments for more jobs. The idle rich simply take their extra money offshore -- to the Cayman Islands, to Swiss bank accounts, and even to Dubai where Halliburton is now headquartered. Trade agreements like NAFTA & GATT, signed by Clinton & supported by Republicans, are death warrants to our factories. Foreign nations protect their industries.
You clearly don't know what the hell you are talking about rob-some. Do you know who turns down more people for healthcare procedures than the "evil" insurance companies? Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA. Check your facts socialist.
Do you even know the definition of Facism? Exalts nationalism over the individual, uses modern techniques of propaganda and censorship to forcibly suppress political opposition, and engages in severe economic and social regimentation. Sounds like Obama to me!
I didn't think you'd get the Keynsean reference. It must be tough to go through life with a very limited vocabulary. But then you can't even copy & paste a simple quote.
The government makes no secret that Medicare recipients need supplemental insurance. The Repugs weakened Medicaid in 2003 by creating the donut hole. That prevents the gov't from getting the lowest bid, costing seniors dearly. Still, both programs deliver quality care millions otherwise would miss.
I know exactly who John M Keynes is. Unlike you, I've actually read The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money.
If you can come off the moronic and juvenile name calling, I will continue our conversation. If you can't, I'm done with your vile filth.
The problem with Keynes is; in his view, the government can pay one person to dig holes, and pay another to fill them in. According to Keynes, this would have "created" two jobs. Unfortunately it creates no real product or service.
Admin costs for Medicare are 3% compared to 20-30% for private crooks like Stephen Hemsley.
On an earlier thread you praised the V.A. Then I informed you that it is socialized health care. Now you say it's bad. Were you lying then or now?
The classic definition of fascism is the fusion of government & corporations, originally practiced by Mussolini. That explains his logo of a bundle of sticks tied together. The definition you give is a generic description of totalitarianism.
A merry Fuck You for questioning my patriotism. You're too fucking stupid to know you're supporting a party bent on destroying this country. The Repugs care only about enriching the already rich, and by extending corporate power. There aren't enough jobs that pay a living wage. Your little crack about the doughnut hole (that Repugs created) might count as wit among your dumbfuck friends. But to the elderly who have to choose between a meal or their pills, they endure a sad plight.
Damn Rob, you kiss your mom with that mouth? Nah, I'd bet mom is out of the picture... you probably weren't held enough as a child.
Keep it up, people like you helped elect Senator Brown. Go Obama, you're the best thing to ever happen to the Republican Party.! Please, please hold steady in your socialist views and agenda!
My working class parents taught me to have compassion for others. Looks like compassion was in short supply in your household. So were books, judging from your puerile remarks.
How about that Congressional race in NY District 23 two months ago? The Repugs lost a seat they held since 1872! I didn't think you want to talk about that. As for Brown, his opponent put on a clinic on how not to campaign. Polls suggest Dems abandoned her because the health care bill was too watered down.
You seem so willing to go down the path to collective socialism. Why don't you ask the families of 7 to 10 milion Ukrainians that were starved to death during the Holodomor how that worked out for them. 25,000 deaths per day, in the interest of "collectivism". Blind compassion is ignorant. I have compassion based on factual history and the failure of any attempt of socialist utopia. If you love the European Socialists so much, move.
As far as the 23rd Congressional District goes... you aren't very good at numbers are you? You're assertion that these races are equal is laughable. That is one seat out of 435. And you've had Democrats changing to the Republican party and retiring right and left. Senator Brown is one of 100... HHmmm that's like 4 times as powerful! Shall we talk about Virginia and New Jersey too?
Go Obama... the health care bill didn't go far enough! Lets go for Cap and Trade and Amnesty too!
My main point about NY23 is that a Repug win in 2010 is not inevitable. The two House pickups for Dems in November provided the margin of victory needed to pass the House health care bill.
The porn model who won in Mass. is pro-choice & voted for health care as state Senator. Voters preferred their state health care plan to the U.S. Senate version. Dems did not field progressives in NJ & VA. Truman said long ago that voters prefer Repug to Repug Lite.
One minute you're praising socialized health care -- in the form of the American V.A. hospitals. The next minute you're comparing the two health care bills in Congress to Stalinist genocide! You have to be a total idiot if you approve of allowing insurance companies to deny claims because of preexisting conditions, or because of illness itself. Both versions remove these loopholes. The paper-pushers at insurance companies who use these loopholes are the real death panels.
Ok serbfree, I'll be merciful. Since it's obvious you're INCAPABLE OF DEFENDING YOUR OWN CLAIM despite TEN requests to do so, I'll drop that one for now and try a new one...
YOU claim Jews would rather die than live in a black neighborhood. Please provide ONE ITEM of proof of that claim.
And bear in mind I know several Jewish people (men and women) who live in HARLEM. A neighborhood I'd bet a racist chickenshit like you wouldn't even walk through during the day, let alone night.
On second thought, forget about it. I'm bored of proving what an idiot you are. It was fun while it lasted, but I can only tolerate so much racist cowardice in one week. Good luck. Maybe one day the wizard will give you a brain.
Incapable of what? I've asked you to defend ONE fact which I've debunked. NINE TIMES. You can't defend ONE FACT. And yet you accuse ME of ducking?
Since I started asking you to defend that ONE claim, you've ranted about at least 2 dozen other things, without ever coming close to answering the ONE question or even acknowledging that it's been asked. THAT'S DUCKING!
I'll ask you ONE LAST TIME. Defend your Walker/Kosar claim, admit you were wrong or keep acting like a ducking coward.
LOL. Dozens of racist rants, and I can refute EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. Because NOT ONE of them means anything. Even IF they were all true, it still wouldn't prove a single thing about your "conspiracy."
What am I ducking? I've asked you EIGHT TIMES to defend ONE of your claims, and you can't do it. Why should I make the effort to debunk your dozens of other lies when you can't even defend ONE of them?
Answer the the question. Walker/Kosar. Stop being a coward and answer it!
Actually, I just realized something. Is it possible that you don't actually know what the word "conspiracy" means?
If that were the case, it would go a long way in explaining why even after dozens of posts you haven't actually provided one shred of evidence regarding one. It also wouldn't surprise me given how ignorant you've proven yourself to be.
Seriously, how much meaningless racist crap can you post before you answer a simple question on something YOU brought up? I would love to debunk every single one of your lies, but they're just too hard to keep up with. Especially since you still won't answer ONE QUESTION...
WALKER/KOSAR. Explain it. Stop running away from like the coward you are.
Tell you what. It's obvious your brain isn't powerful enough to answer two questions at the same time. And since it's obvious you haven't got ONE SHRED of evidence, I'll stop asking you for that. So I'll make it even easier for you.
Ready?
ONE QUESTION:
Explain YOUR accusation that Walker pissing his money away was the Jews' fault, but the Jewish Kosar also lost his money.
THAT'S SEVEN TIMES. Do I have to ask you an eighth?
1. Provide ONE SHRED OF EVIDENCE that this is all part of a conspiracy.
2. Explain why Walker pissing away his own money is part of a Jewish conspiracy, while Kosar (a Jew known for being "smart with his money") lost his on investments.
Or just keep digging yourself deeper and deeper into the same hole. Or at least provide something new. Up to now you've been comedy gold, but it's getting boring.
Yep, that sure is a lot of racist bullshit you just said. Of course, among it all, there still isn't one shred of evidence, and nearly everything is conjecture or easily disproven.
1. Evidence of a conspiracy.
2. Walker/Kosar.
That's 5 times in a row. I would gladly debunk EVERYTHING you just said, but first things first. Respond to those two things. Or do you want me to ask you a sixth time?
Funny you should mention Henry Ford - another notorious racist like yourself.
Especially given that his whole opinion of the Jews was shaped by the "Elders of Zion," which he helped distribute... until he found out the whole thing was a forgery. He then recanted his position and apologized for his role in spreading it.
What the hell are you talking about? Looks like YOU are the one who is going off on meaningless tangents.
Look, I'm an American. I proudly support your RIGHT to say whatever ignorant racist bullshit you want. But if you're going to keep hitting "reply" to my posts then you should REPLY TO MY POSTS.
REAL evidence. Evidence of a conspiracy. Not a bunch of names that you cherry picked that HAPPEN to be Jewish. You seriously think nobody could come up with a list 10 times as long of Christians who did much worse things? EVIDENCE!!!!!
Also, YOU are the one who brought up Walker. PROVE to me his pissing away his money was the Jews' fault. And EXPLAIN KOSAR.
Come on, you had a problem with me "changing arguments" (not true of course). Answer the two I've said three times in a row now.
I love it. You accuse me of changing my arguments and going on tangents, neither of which are remotely true, but everytime you get backed into a corner and can't answer my questions you just IGNORE everything I said and repeat your same original lies with nothing to back them up.
Still waiting for that ONE shred of evidence you have.
Still waiting to hear how Antoine Walker pissing away his money is part of the Jewish conspiracy, but Bernie Kosar lost his in investments despite being Jewish.
Also, I'd like to see you point out ONE time I changed my argument or went off on a tangent. Everything I've said is to demonstrate my one point, which is that you are driven by nothing but blind hate and cowardice.
Let me say it again. Unable to accept responsibility for YOUR OWN FAILINGS, you have chosen to blame the Jews, and you are cherry picking "facts" to justify your hate.
Go read my BS "black people" example again. I used EXACTLY the same method as you. But you're too blind to see it.
"Just the facts I see." EXACTLY! As I've been saying, all you have is BLIND HATE. The only racism going on here is yours.
YOU said black people are "easier to rip off," and YOU said a conspiracy is the ONLY possible explanation for a higher percentage of Jews in certain jobs - without providing a shred of evidence. You are a pure racist.
As for cherry picking, I just PROVED that you do. You said Antoine Walker (a known prodigal), I said Bernie Kosar - which you ignored. THAT'S CHERRY PICKING!
Interesting. I'd love to hear some black peoples' reactions to your assertion that they're "easier to rip off."
And are you saying Walker going broke had NOTHING to do with his own actions? He pissed away his own money on a massive entourage, cars, etc. And, his ex-agent is one of the people he owes money to!
Meanwhile Bernie Kosar (Jewish QB) is broke too. Shouldn't the Jewish conspiracy have made sure he was taken care of?
You're still just cherry picking facts to justify your blind hate.
Wow, the one thing I didn't expect from you is to provide a link PROVING my (totally bullshit) theory. And now that you mention it, I don't know anybody who had slaves either. You know what that means? SLAVERY AND SEGREGATION WERE A HOAX!!!
So once again, using YOUR logic, there's a great black conspiracy which created a hoax about slavery to help take over sports, the media, and the government. And both Jews and non-Jews need to understand that they must be removed for the sake of USA economy.
By the way, I could do the same thing with white people (almost every Fortune 500 CEO is a white male! English is the dominant trade language despite being a worldwide minority!), Native Americans or whoever.
The point, which keeps whizzing past your head, is that when you START with a premise - in your case that there's a massive Jewish conspiracy - you can fit any sort of "facts" to it you want. But in reality, it's nothing more than blind hate and willful ignorance.
Ok, serbfree. Let's see if I can do the same thing you do:
---
BLACK PEOPLE are trying to take over the world! After centuries of oppression, they're seeking revenge against white people, and their plan is already working. FIRST they sought to take over the culture. Despite being a minority the vast majority of sports stars are black. Basketball, baseball, football and they even placed someone in golf! GOLF! A supposedly white-dominated sport! How do you explain that?
And then theres the music, the fashion, basically all the kinds of people OUR KIDS see as role models. All dominated by the minority black people. And now we see the results of their conspiring to take over our culture. This minority now has the leaders of BOTH political parties! The presidency and the RNC chair. How else could a relative unknown come out of nowhere to become president? And how else could a black man become chair of the virtually all-white GOP?
Sure, to the sheep it SEEMS like theyre fighting each other, but really theyre brothers in the same conspiracy who are acting like that to trick us. So there you have it. Total dominance over our culture/media as well as political rule. All part of the great black conspiracy to take over the world!
---
Sounds ridiculous, doesnt it? Thats because it IS ridiculous. And its also EXACTLY the same logic and facts that you are using in your absurd anti-Semitic blame game.
Do any of the politicians understand that if you tax a manufacturer or service, they will simple pass that cost down to the customer? It only indicates that people like Franken, both Dems and Rep. have no clue to how business or the economy work. No where in this history of our country , has the government produced jobs or caused the economy to improve. Franken is just a far left nut with money, that wants to spend YOUR money.
Those are still opinions. Moron. Facts, actual data is what I asked for. Moron. If you have nothing but what somebody else told you then please let the informed adults carry on with the conversatio. Moron.
Those are still opinions. Moron. Facts, actual data is what I asked for. Moron. If you have nothing but what somebody else told you then please let the informed adults carry on with the conversatio. Moron.
My pity might be misguided, but it's not false. I really do feel sorry for you.
Sure, you've said the same thing repeatedly. It's still shit. You're STARTING with a premise and then fitting whatever you can into it, while burying your head in the sand with everything that doesn't. You're a coward who can't accept responsibility for his own life, and you've latched onto a convenient instead.
There's nothing for me to "lose." I have facts and logic. You have blind hate and ignorance. No contest
Then you will agree that people should "accept responsibility for their own life's?" Therefore, government should stay out of "Their life's"
Therefore $trillions of dollars in PORK spending, to bailout companies and people that are irresponsible, is wrong. Therefore, don't make me buy health insurance or aid people that don't care about their life.
Again I'm confused by your point. You took one comment of mine out of context, applied it to two completely different subjects, along with massive over-simplification and assumptions about my position on both of them. I don't even know where to begin a debate there.
For now I'll just point out that I used to be VERY libertarian (bordering on anarchist). But slowly my ideology changed in the face of facts and pragmatism. Serbfree is clearly imprisoned by his ideology. Hopefully you are not.
@ourflag... - You should post your replies directly to me -- not hide them half a screenpage away.
You conveniently forget Obama inherited a huge mess from Bush: two wars and a wrecked economy. Contrast that to Bush who inherited two budget surpluses & relative peace. And Bush ignored Richard Clarke's warnings of al Qaeda attacks.
FDR proved you can spend your way out of a Depression by stimulating growth. Ourflag, you dismiss any evidence against your narrow views.
roblom- lets not forget Bush inherited a gutted military/ CIA because of a phony 'peace dividend' - so much for your phantom surplus. The only thing FDR proved was that you can keep the unemployment above 20% with run away spending. The only thing that ended the depression was preparing for WWII. (and yes, FDR ignored the warnings surrounding Pearl Harbor.) Now, lets see some good intelligent dribble - give me your best shot.
rzrbckgrl- What's the point of rational debate with the likes of you? Your head is too far up your ass for any facts to seep into your alternate reality. The following is addressed to those capable of reason. FDR didn't willfully ignore warnings about Pearl. The Air Force installed radar stations in Hawaii that detected approaching bombers. But not enough staff knew enough about the new technology to give it credence. Read "At Dawn We Slept" for more military errors.
roblom- rational debate? you defend a man that turned a recession into a lengthy depression. FDR planned for WWII and needed a way to enter. How else can you employ millions of Americans? FDR made up rights (like healthcare) and manipulated the supreme court. A classic East coast liberal that you defend. youre a joke.
Typical right-winger. I clean up one of your lies and you spew out three more, while ignoring the rebuttal. The rational observer can see you have nothing.
FDR spent the rest of his presidency crushing those who perpetrated the attack.
In contrast, Bush ignored a Presidential Daily Brief, dated August 6, 2001entitled "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S." The 9/11 Commission discovered this in sworn testimony by inept National Security Advisor Condeleeza Rice. Bush stayed on vacation in Crawford, Tx for 5 weeks! That's the longest vacation by any U.S. President! A CIA agent went to Texas & delivered the warning in person.
Bush told the agent: "All right. You've covered your ass, now." Doofus remained on vacation (just like he did after Katrina). Investigative reporter Ron Suskind also reported in "The One Percent Doctrine" that Bush deliberately withheld U.S. troops when they could have trapped Bin Laden & his army at Tora Bora in December 2001. He instead left the job to rented Afghans who didn't care.
Bin Laden and his men thus escaped into Pakistan. We are still dealing with this mess.
Any comparison between FDR's resolve and Bush's resolve is pitiful.
Remember this gem from Bush's March 13, 2002 press conference? So I don't know where [Bin Laden] is.... You know, I just don't spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you.... I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him."
There you have it. I gather facts, nonpartisan sources & direct quotes before I form my views. Right wing trolls have only their talking points.
FDR was the king of entitlements - now Obama will take the mantle while my children/ grandchildren pay for it. Since you want to call me a right wing troll remember to include your address we can see just how tuff you are. Maybe I can beat some since into you.
Unable to defend FDR's turning a recession into a depression and unable to defend Obama's 14 Trillion dollar waste you you choose to call someone you have no clude abut an asswipe. So, how was 8th grade today you littel toad? Defend yourself toad!!!
rzrbckgrl, your FDR claims are just more lies. The truth is NOBODY knows what would have happened without the New Deal. All we have are conflicting theories and ideologies. ANYONE who says otherwise is a liar.
But what I do find amusing about that argument is when people say, "WWII ended the depression," without actually asking themselves why. The change that happened during WWII was MORE government spending. You're free to be a partisan/ideologue if you want, but you can't have it both ways.
No one knows what would have happened? Are you kidding me? FDR ruled by throwing entitlements around and you call apposing that being partisan? Honestly, WWII created a huge peacetime boom fueled by the private sector. Your critical thinking is impressive, NOT. Now, that is really amusing:)
@rzrbck- FDR inherited 25% unemployment from Hoover in 1933. Google "FDR wikipedia." If you can't do that, ask any 8th grader for help. Most semi-conscious people would call that a depression, not a recession. By the end of his 1st term unemployment dropped to 14.3%. That's without WWII.
Obama hopes to get the same bounce. That's how investments work. FDR's New Deal, Truman's GI bill, Ike's Interstate Highway Act all cost a lot up front & paid off big later. Bush wasted 5 trill on nada.
FDR extended the depression by 7 years - I hate to break it to you. With uber government spending that inflate supply & demand the self correctiing forces of the free market cannot work. I dont understand what 'bounce' you talk about. I abslotely recall Obama harping about the horrlbe George Bush economy when uenmployment was 4.5%. Obama hopes to drag this country into an entitlement laden socialism.
If you search "wiki economic policy of the George W. Bush administration" you'll see Bush inherited 4.1% unemployment in Jan 2001. That rate rose to 7.2% in Dec 2008. Nothing to boast about. And the Wall Street meltdown happened on Bush's watch. Obama saw what was coming.
Again, FDR inherited 25% unemployment after 3 failed Republican administrations. The rate dropped to 1.9% in 1945.
Obama is a Keynesian (look it up), not a socialist. So far he's been too kind to Wall St IMHO.
Roblom needs to rely on Wiki and sound bites for his research, obviously. Keynsian is socialist when government uses monetary policy to effect supply & demand. To quote a 1.9% unemployment rate after a 4 year war is laughable. George Bush did not buy millions of homes he couldnt afford - which resulted in the meltdown. You are a not well read.
Billions of dollars toward war over a lie is why the economy is the way it is. The immoral republicans waging murderous war and corruption beyond the grace of God is why the entire party is going to hell.
TRILLIONS of dollars toward a phony claim of global warming. immoral liberal democrats ripping the democratic party (and the USA) apart. Liberal democrats - complete hyporites. All of them.
@rzrbckgrl Matthew 19:21 Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."
Wait a minute, rzrbckgrl is accusing OTHER PEOPLE of relying on sound bites? That's the funniest thing I've seen all day! LOLOLOL
She still claims to know the ONE TRUE STORY of FDR's policies, which even the top economists in the world can't agree on except to say there's no way to really know. She doesn't even understand her own Bible references (one of MANY meanings of "render unto Caesar" is to pay your taxes/God doesn't need your money).
She literally has NO IDEA what she's talking about.
Oh, please!! "top economists of the world"??? I thought this was still the United States. Oh, you must think youve already managed an uber government with Obamofraud as fruher. ONE TRUE STORY?? who said that? I simply pointed out correctly that FDR extended the depression for 5 yrs by raising taxes and increasing spending. Sorry if you cant refute. Thats not my problem.
I hate to break the news to you, but the U.S. is IN the world. But jeez, if you're going to throw a hissy fit over it fine.... the top economists in the UNITED STATES. Happy now, nutbag?
And YOU said your version is the one true story. And you just repeated it right now. If you knew the slightest thing about economics, you would know that it's IMPOSSIBLE to know whether or not FDR "extended the depression." All ANYONE can claim are theories. Sorry if you can't see reason. That's not my problem.
You seem to be saying war is always great for solving unemployment. Well, unemployment doubled after 7 years of Bush's wars. FDR punished war profiteers through the Truman Commission. Bush & Cheney encouraged war profiteers like Cheney's former company Halliburton. They even granted them immunity.
The Wiki articles I quote are all footnoted to outside sources. You do know what footnotes are? I also quoted other sources. You haven't refuted any. You merely spew more lies.
In fact you haven't cited a single reference throughout this thread! If you did, it would either be Fixed News, The Pigman (that's Rush Limpbaugh), or some other right wing swill. You're just another phony patriot who hates Americans. Trailer trash is a state of mind.
Citing? You still havent cited exactly where obamofraud gets the authority to push his commie health care package. So tell me roblomboy - is he citing that famous health clause in the constitution?? Now go run to MSNBC for your Kool-Aid fix.
Wrong - you like muddling connotations of my argument to fit your argument. "Bush's Wars?" Please - You can quote Wiki till youre blue in the face - but you will never escape the fact FDR extended the depression for years with his spending. FDR had nothing to do with the Truman commision - FDR was an aging doofus; Truman rose to prominence with HIS commission. With 1.5 Trillion already spent by Obamafraud you havent a leg to stand on regarding your profiteering argument.
@rzrbckgrl Jesus told us to help the poor and the sick. Why are you still thinking about yourself being taxed more in order to fulfill the wishes of Jesus? It sounds like you're more on the side of Satan, rather than Jesus.
I supported you. I was thrilled when you kicked Colman's phony ass.
But Al, did you really vote for the National Defense Authorization Act?
Did you do this? You voted for a law that allows the Military to arrest American citizens and confine them indefinitely without due process on suspicion alone?
The provision is so broad that it can and will be used to quell political dissent or simple vandalism?
You and your fellow representatives have committed treason against the American people.
Larkinchance 1 month ago
@Larkinchance Franken voted against the NDAA. He even wrote an article on The Huffington Post called 'Why I Voted Against the National Defense Authorization Act'.
He passed an early version of it, hoping that the offending clauses would get altered in the house, but when the bill came back unchanged, he voted against it.
CrapOfTheWorld 1 month ago
@CrapOfTheWorld I am very glad to hear it.. I've had enough disillusionment, thank you
Larkinchance 1 month ago
Franken for President 2016
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SesaaaPerlaaa147 10 months ago
I can tell John Thune went a few semesters at Politician Institute of America based on his exquisite training in the usage of hand gestures and pointing. He understands the importance of folding the index finger and pointing in a non-threatening manner to emphasize a point, yet with the gusto to show that he means business. He lets me know that he's the authoritarian over me. He's well-oiled and he scores an A!
ThatS0meBadHatHarry 11 months ago
Senator Franken is a moron and an illegitimate senator.
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weesazmpety 1 year ago
Thune is a scumbag
Kougeki1000 1 year ago
what a shame there isn't more like al franken in the broken down "filibuster" senate. john thune is owned by the insurance companies. that's the simple fact. conservatives fought for a system that's 37th in the world, that costs twice as much for consumers as the second highest in germany, and we literally let people die without preventable care. in the so-called "greatest country in the world". they voted to literally let americans die so insurance companies could retain obscene profits.
tomitstube 1 year ago
Funny. The first "benefit" he cites is "prohibiting lifetime limits on benefits".
Ah...isn't that BAD?
Other benefit: a tax credit for small businesses?
Okay, Smalley--which bill are you reading from--the stimulus plan? WHAT do "tax credits for businesses" have to do with the "health care" bill?
And finally...if The Joker's so sure about benefits happening right away, why not tell us exactly WHERE these benefits are in the bill? As in: WHAT PAGE?
RushLimborg 1 year ago
@RushLimborg why don't you google "immediate benefits from health care bill" and read the first link? or uh, any of the links.
ssutton711 1 year ago
So, where are all those benefits you promised us in your pretty speech? All lies from the communists that are masquerading as democrats. Doesn't matter though, these clowns are quickly being made obsolete as the executive branch usurps their power. Isn't it interesting that a great number of dead people voted for Al Frankenstein here?
EngineerMK2004 1 year ago 3
@EngineerMK2004 The benefits don't apply to 100% of the population, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Why don't you actually research the benefits involved in the HCR bill? I think you might actually like some of them.
ssutton711 1 year ago
@ssutton711 doesn't "universal" mean 100%? Socialism and its promises are lies from power hungry frauds, told to the useful idiots that punch ballots for the lie. The progressives regard you as retarded children. They think they know what's best for you and are willing to use all the force they have against you if you disagree.
EngineerMK2004 1 year ago
Franken is a fraud. He is phony that never had a respecable job. And now he has a buggers job.
Harlan346 1 year ago
didn't read the Health Care bill? I guess Franken is referring to the Health Care Bill which the Democrats created behind closed doors, locking Republicans out; the same Health Care Bill which Nancy Pelosi said Congress had to pass, so that we can find out what is in it. In the past year and a half, the Democrats, including the Disillusioner-in-Chief, have proven they are totalitarians at heart. They violate their oaths of office on a regular basis. Your means determine the end you reach.
write2topcat 1 year ago
So...Nancy Pelosi tells us, "We'll have to pass the bill for you to find out what's in it"--and Al Franken accuses US of not having read the bill?
Give me a break.
RushLimborg 1 year ago
Well, here's a number for you: 60.
That "magic" supermajority you said you needed in the video: "60 Votes." Remember? The one where Senator Clinton suggested that Al could be that 60th vote? Well, you GOT your 60th vote some time ago....via Suart Smalley himself. So tell me why, at the time of this video, you were still MONTHS away from passing a bill that won't even go into full effect until AFTER Obama leaves office?
If this is progress, I'd hate to see your version of gridlock!
pacmantab 1 year ago
@pacmantab because Joe Lieberman (an independent) voted for the insurance companies down the line. There were never 60 democrats in the Senate under Obama.
ssutton711 1 year ago
@ssutton711 says "there were never 60 democrats in the Senate under Obama."
Really?
Straight from democrats.senate.gov after the bill FINALLY got passage: "The United States Senate witnessed an historic moment this morning, as 60 Democratic Senators cast their votes in favor of passing health."
Don't get me wrong, I am actually happy not all the Democrats are drinking the Koolaid, as it were, I just think its funny that, despite these "60 Votes," not a whole lot has gotten done....
pacmantab 1 year ago
@pacmantab 1. Lieberman caucuses with the Democrats but he is actually an independent (and is totally in the pocket of the health insurance industry). 2. When the bill "FINALLY" passed, Scott Brown had already been seated and thus there weren't even 60 democratic Senators even if you counted Lieberman.
ssutton711 1 year ago
So, @ssutton711, you admit your own party, your own advocates, are liars.
And that, my friends, is what is called an EPIC FAIL.
The promise of "change" has been met - despite a supermajority - with little more than gridlock and rumblings within their own party....and now the excuses and your baseless qualifiers come rolling in as you face losing the momentum you gained less than two years ago. Sad, really....
pacmantab 1 year ago
Franken for president 2016!
DSD1v57BG32 1 year ago
Stuart Smally is the biggest moron in the history of the Senate.
dahoss2x 1 year ago
@dahoss2x And yet he's smarter than your dumbass. I love that Fox can do nothing but go to his SNL days. Pitiful what the GOP has become.
rakrobn 1 year ago
@rakrobn He is so smart, he should be President... It would be an improvement.
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HaydenEFloresm 1 year ago
People laughed about Franken running but you watch this and I think he is awesome. We could have had Coleman who would be standing on the floor reading off the index card of GOP talking points that AHIP typed up for him, but instead we got a fighter to hold the lying sons of bitches' feet to the fire. Voters won when Franken won, even though the GOP were pussies about losing the election.
GretchenDawntreader 1 year ago 2
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Franken = Idiot
rthunder1000 1 year ago
@rthunder1000 Why?
MarcCCoraty 1 year ago
@MarcCCoraty Born that way!!!!!!!!!!!
rthunder1000 1 year ago
@rthunder1000 Although your reply kept with the theme of humor, it failed to define the reasons in which you believe what you believe. People like you remind me of the town drunk; spouting words with slurred meanings and origins straight from the bottom of the bottle.
MarcCCoraty 1 year ago
Sad day when people think of health care as an industry. Spits at the idea and face of civilisasion.
ETericET 1 year ago
ETericET, are you in a profession that doesn't pay you anything?
Doctors provide a service, in return they ask for compensation so they can pay their bills.
As far as health care goes, a simple clinic visit is very affordable. If our health insurance were like auto insurance and we didn't expect them to cover everything for every doctor visit, that would be very affordable as well.
gerfunked 1 year ago
Where do I say they should not be payed for there service? It's easy to think you won a discussion when you make it up yourself. The doctors get payed quite well here with our public healthcare. Our companies can and do compete because they are not saddled with the costs of insuring there employees. Your just full or GOP talking points. Hey why don't you privatise police, firemen and the military there? Some things should be run by the goverment. We pay a lot less for drugs and services here
ETericET 1 year ago
Yes they get paid, fair enough. I don't know where your public health care is, but if you like it, then you are in the right country. I am not looking to take away what you have. But I also appreciate what I have. Yes, I have used it, yes I was happy with the care, and yes, my insurance company covered the costs just as stated in the contract. I don't want mine changed either. Health care is but one small problem saddling our companies here. We regulate the heck out of them.
gerfunked 1 year ago
You can not compare police, firemen and the military to health care. They are services that we receive indirectly. On the other hand, we have direct relations with our health care providers. Whether I choose to see my physician 1 or 12 times a year, that is my choice. If I am in charge of paying for it, then I will moderate it a lot better than if a third party is footing the bill.
All I ask is that we have the ability to freely trade for services rendered.
gerfunked 1 year ago
Actually you can compare them to health care. 100 years ago "fire insurance" wasn't just something to replace the value of your belongings in case of fire. It was a fee paid to private fire companies so that IF your house caught on fire, they would come and put it out. Much like modern health insurance.
Anyway, you must be thrilled with the final version of the bill. It'll let you keep your insurance with more options if you want, and will reduce the deficit. Everything you want, right?
JustTheFax1 1 year ago
ETericET, do you work for free?
Health care providers provide a service and ask a compensation so they can pay bills. What is wrong with that?
A simple appointment with a Dr. is very affordable and does not require an insurance claim. If health insurance were treated more like auto insurance, it would also be affordable to most.
A civilization requires we all pull our own. Giving products and services to individuals makes them lazy and dependent. Not the direction to take.
gerfunked 1 year ago
If I read the data right, red states have more people on welfare. Maybe you shouldn't bring in public healthcare. Looks like a good way to get rid of blind faith republicans.
ETericET 1 year ago 3
@gerfunked this bill isn't to deny money to doctors. It's to reign in the abuses of health insurers, who have the perverse incentive to control health care: they win most for their shareholders if they take in more premiums and pay out for less care. They have armies of lawyers (and now, lobbyists,) and they love you when you send your check every month, but when you get sick and make a claim, they start working on how to drop you. That's a perverse system.
GretchenDawntreader 1 year ago
@GretchenDawntreader here here
chisler000009 1 year ago
@gerfunked Auto insurance is exactly the model that this version of HCR uses-- everyone has to buy into insurance exchanges and in the end it's not even clear that insurance companies will lose money under the new arrangement (doctors likely will).
ssutton711 1 year ago
Franken missed his calling, he should have been a comedian.
kd5gua 1 year ago
Repugnicunts are just plain dumbassed fucking liars.
blair227 1 year ago 2
Quickslimeball-
The alternative to Capitalixm is central planning - period. You are a moron.
rzrbckgrl 1 year ago
Ok rzr, I know you don't respond well to reason and logic, but how about PICTURES?
You said:
"You are a whack job to claim Republicans grow government more than Democrates." (I'm assuming by "Democrates" you meant "Democrats," not some ancient Greek philosopher)
I present a graph (in color!) showing national debt increases over the past 25 years:
lafn[dot]org/gvdc/Natl_Debt_Chart.jpg
Or how about private sector job growth?
waynedemocrats[dot]org/images/privatejobgrowth.png
Questions?
JustTheFax1 1 year ago 9
This comment has received too many negative votes show
graphs? please. Trilliions of dollars spent (that the US does not have) and you still try to justify yourself. You are like the only person still believing in this crap. You need to rely on graphs that are most always being manipulated (see global warming & al gore) BECAUSE you FAILED to show where health care is covered in the Constitution.
rzrbckgrl 1 year ago
Wow, you're so right. How could I possibly be foolish enough to think that ACTUAL NUMBERS showing the national debt exploding under Republican Presidents and dropping or barely moving under Democratic Presidents could possibly stand up to your meaningless rhetoric that the opposite is true? Tell you what, if you think the numbers are manipulated, prove it.
You have talking points. I have actual numbers. If you want to debunk me, you're going to have to do better than crying, "No it isn't!"
JustTheFax1 1 year ago 20
@rzrbckgrl
Ok, so now that the final version of the bill is about to be voted on and the CBO report says that it will actually REDUCE THE DEFICIT by $138 billion over the first 10 years and $1.2 trillion over the following 10, are you ready to admit that all your talking points about how Obama is going to destroy the economy with his "14 trillion bill" were dead wrong? I take it now that it will both insure 32 million new people AND save the taxpayers money you'll be 100% behind it, right?
SirVelvetKnight 1 year ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
private sector job growth? are you kidding me?? ha ha ha!! are you pointing to the Carter/ Obama miracle of private sector job creation? Or, maybe, BJ Clinton's tech bubble and Fed manipulation of the MS leading to the real estate implosion?? You are one crazy liberal -- kinda like the alien that just wont die.
rzrbckgrl 1 year ago
Small, Toxic and Pathetic at Best !!!
nickrambus 1 year ago
Hey quickslimeball-
Why do you believe government somehow changes human nature and makes men into angels? Why do you believe human nature can somethow be controlled by government programs? Why can government exist without corruption but capitalism cant?
rzrbckgrl 1 year ago
rzrbckgrl, Why do you make assumptions? Because it's the only way you come to your illogical conclusions. I don't believe government makes people good. People are bad without government. Human nature is to take for himself... You don't need government to do that. There is corruption in everything... But you are demonizing Government over Big business, and neither is better than the other. Again, when you talk about human nature, it doesn't change with venue.
quicksiliva 1 year ago
Hey Roblom-
could you explain how the voting blocks in VA, NJ and MA all swing right in Obama's first year? Can you explain this as you tell me how cults are formed?
rzrbckgrl 1 year ago
Hey roblom-
I am finally reading your prose. I actually would like you to "go on". Could you begin by defining the 'Bush doctine' - that is, if you can find a 'Bush doctrine' for me, please? Then, while defining ineptitude, explain why only 45% of Americans feel he deserves a 2nd term. (as per a 2/15/10 CBS poll).
rzrbckgrl 1 year ago
HAHAHAHHAA... Minn elected Franken... HAHAHAHAHA
Hows the hope & change??!
Silly liberals... hope is not a strategy!
FUCKING TEA PARTY BITCHES!!!
Revolution is in the air!!!
1Guitarslayer 1 year ago
AL Franken, is as delousional as Joe Biden. The benefits that he is claiming start day one, don't cost us a dime to begin with. What a jackass.
am60mo 1 year ago
I got to say though. I find Franken refreshing. Facts are facts. For dishonest senators who try to spin it out of proportions and stall the entire bill on issues that are not factual. And on top of that they use terms to portray a wrong image, in which the average american only understands in the setting of communism and eugenics. Who have no real understanding what these terms really entails.
Outright shameful. But thats the US two party system for you.
Muthsera80 2 years ago
Muthsera80 is under the false impression that a long winded spiel full of lies will bolster his point.
Liberal Parasites often use that pathetic ploy, it does not work.
he wants us to believe
communist china is chock full of free enterprise and independent businesses.
you are a LIAR Muthsera80
mstaff657 2 years ago
Meh, I can never tell when people are sarcastic on here. :/
Muthsera80 2 years ago
Letter from an E.R. Doctor...
To Whom it May Concern,
During my last night's shift in the ER, I had the pleasure of evaluating a patient with an expensive shiny gold tooth, multiple elaborate expensive tattoos, a very expensive brand of tennis shoes, and a new cellular telephone equipped with her favorite R&B tune for a ringtone. Glancing over the chart, one could not help noticing her payer status: Medicaid. (Continued on next post)
2bapilot 2 years ago
She smokes more than one costly pack of cigarettes every day and, somehow, still has money to buy beer. And our Congress expects me to pay for this woman's health care?
2bapilot 2 years ago
Our nation's health care crisis is not a shortage of quality hospitals, doctors,or nurses. It is a crisis of culture a culture in which it is perfectly acceptable to spend money on vices while
refusing to take care of one's self or, heaven forbid, purchase health insurance. A culture that thinks "I can do whatever I want to because someone else will always take care of me".
2bapilot 2 years ago
So your worried about those criminals who get healthcare and not those millions of average american who can't afford it? Do I get your intentions right with that? Not to mention those tens of millions who are under-insured, on top of that you have insurance companies who in retrospect examines everything about your personal life to stick you with the bill.
To give criminals healthcare is the price you pay for a universal healthcare system. But hey, you continue it this way.
Muthsera80 2 years ago
I believe people should be responsible for their own actions and choices. If the government is always there to bail people out, there are no consequences for poor choices. Life's hard, it should be harder if you're stupid.
The best thing we can do for the poor, is to make it uncomfortable to be poor. Ben Franklin
2bapilot 2 years ago
Should there be consequences for bad luck as well? Because thats what you get on the coattail of that ideology. Not everything is in your power to prevent. Like if you work on a factory for 15 years and it's all you know. You suddenly get the boot because their outsourcing the factory to china. Thats a consequence of your system as well. That person made the wrong job choices. Isn't he technically to blame himself? Fact is. Your ideal will only lead to people being more cynical and calculated.
Muthsera80 2 years ago
Why do think the factories are moving out of the US? The intrusion of governmental regulatory control and high taxes make it impossible for companies to make a profit. You can thank idiotic leftists like your boy Stuart Smalley for that too.
2bapilot 2 years ago
The reason why companies move their factories to china is because it has a favorable trade deal with the US and their workers expenses are 1-100 of that of the US. Mostly due to extremely low wages. But also due to the state having the burden of benefits like pensions and illness compensation.
Now. If you think it's due to taxes and regulations your a idealistic moron. I'm sorry but it's true. On top of that you had a government who gave tax incentives for companies who undercut your *cont*
Muthsera80 2 years ago
industrial capacity. Secondary sector is one of the most important economic growth sectors. Now that you have for 30 years grown the financial sector on borrowed growth in an imaginary laissez faire economy that doesn't work. You suddenly find yourself in a pickle. Not to mention the fact more related to the topic at hand that you have a gdp expenditure on healthcare that is 16% of your entire economy. Guess what it is in my country where we get paid vacations to the Mediterranean *cont*
Muthsera80 2 years ago
if you have certain skin and skeleton illnesses, etc, etc, etc. We pay 8%. You wish you had the same kind of coverage I have. And if I am unemployed I still have the same benefits. If I'm rich I pay for percentage wise for it. But that is only fair. You have greater means to handle it.
Fact is, the US healthcare system is inefficient, unresponsive, give lower life expectancy and MORE expensive, even twice the price of any other system. For what? Your own egocentric? YOU pay for it either way.
Muthsera80 2 years ago
Weird... the top 10 counties in the US with the greatest unemployment have all been under Democratic control for at least 10 years. Leftist Socialist policies clearly work in favor of industrial productivity. Go Obama!
2bapilot 2 years ago
First of. I want you to read up on what socialist means. That Obama is a socialist might be true. But not in the definition you think of. It's nothing wrong that the government takes on tasks on the behalf of everyone. It's also funny how my own socialist country manages to hold our unemployment around 3%.
Now. On the counties. To assume that counties are predominantly responsible for their own economic growth is untrue. It's mostly done on a state level. And you know that. *cont*
Muthsera80 2 years ago
We've got about 25 million illegal aliens I'd like to send to your Socialist country. I'm sure whatever socialist country you live in doesn't have 300 million people in it.
Also, I don't believe your country has become the greatest nation on earth, only to be torn down by an apologist socialist, with unattainable, pie in the sky ideals. Just because you screwed up your country, doesn't mean you should screw up mine. You shouldn't even have a say...
2bapilot 2 years ago
Fair point, scale matters. But look at France and Germany who both have universal healthcare and a great number of illegals. Who spend only around 6-8% of gdp on covering everyone. And not by under insuring and denying care.
Your problem is that you don't want to pay taxes for coverage. But one pay for it either way, and you twice as much.
Secondly. Stop claiming your country is the greatest nation on earth. It's hugely arrogant and highly subjective. It's also very selective on the criteria.
Muthsera80 2 years ago
HHHmmm, how much aid did your country send to Haiti? I thought so... THE UNITED STATES... THE GREATEST MOST POWERFUL COUNTRY ON EARTH!!!
I certainly hope no one tries to take you over, we'll have to come save your asses... again!
2bapilot 2 years ago
Ah, right. We revert back to ww2. How surprised am I? The last refuge of someone who don't have any further arguments.
But I want you to think of two things. One, when France was invaded in May 1940, it lost 350,000 soldiers in a month. Thats only 100k less than the US lost the entire war. Okinawa and all. Secondly. You arrived fashionably late as always. Reaping the profits in the meanwhile by trading towards both. You also didn't lose your entire manufacturing base as a result of the war.
Muthsera80 2 years ago
But look. I'm not going to continue these childish arguments if your only going to divert at historical non issues. Which have nothing to do with the argument at hand. You want to discuss healthcare and economics assosiated to that. Fine. I could even discuss military history with you, but to it's own time. Even modern military doctrines and how it relates to europe-us relations today. But I'm only going to do that if your going to behave and don't spit these uninformed arguments.
Muthsera80 2 years ago
Secondly. Those who are hardest hit this downturn is industrial exporting job market. That mostly in cars and metals. The greatest hit state unemployment wise is Michigan. Who also hold a great number of those counties you talk about. But it's only natural that Democrats hold those seats. It's in the New England area and it's a dominating Democrat area. We also know blue collar jobs mostly vote democrat. To assume anything from your statement is outright wrong. Educate yourself instead of *cont*
Muthsera80 2 years ago
Spit out every Fox News and Republican talking points of the week.
If you like. You can try to look up the term laissez faire and try to understand how that term relates to the ideals which was responsible for the recession you now find yourself in. And you can look at those countries who have run a Keynesian economics and see how they have faired in this crisis. Either way you look at it. Having a strong government saved the US economy last fall by doing the TARP. Think about that mate.
Muthsera80 2 years ago
@Muthsera80 you are full of shit
U.S. businesses and industry operate under more regulation and taxes than businesses in any other country on earth !
You are a LIAR
you are most likely a gov. parasite
mstaff657 2 years ago
You think the Communist state of China doesn't have regulations towards it's business sector? You don't think they have taxes? On the face of it the US have high corporate taxes. But it also have so many loopholes that any medium sized company hires accountants to limit their taxes. The larger you are, the more you can avert taxation.
On the ease of doing business index, the US scores very well actually. A lot higher than China mind you. So you tell me, why do they outsource?
Muthsera80 2 years ago
the new world order has hijacked our republic..we need to all stand up and defend the constitution..the time is now..get informed..check out my page for info
DirtyMill08 2 years ago
@2bapilot
I support the Disabled American Veterans charity group. I have lots of stationary from them, which they sent in gratitude. Anyone who donates to the DAV knows what I'm talking about.
The vets you claim to know are as ignorant as you about the V.A. The V.A. is the only socialized segment in the American health care system! The gov't owns the hospitals and employs the doctors & nurses. So thanks for the complement about their care, asshat.
roblom 2 years ago
@2bapilot
Try meeting some vets who know how the Repugs abused their loyalty. Meet Iraq Veterans Against the War. That's ivaw(dot)org. Repugs love the soldier, hate the veteran. The little Bush bastard created a scandal at Walter Reed Hospital. The Washington Post exposed Bush's neglect in a series of articles in February 2007. Don't read much, do you?
roblom 2 years ago
You know; it's funny how the military (including veterans) ALWAYS vote about 85 to 95 percent for Republicans. Are you completely out of touch, or just ignorant?
2bapilot 2 years ago
@2bapilot
An ABCNews article ("The Veteran Vote - an Update"), dated Dec 24, 2008, reports that vets favored McCain by only a 54-44% margin. That's a far cry from 75 or 95%. Why am I not surprised you're lying? Veterans are figuring out they've been duped into fighting corporate wars.
And why shouldn't I give Repugs the back of my hand? Like you they're ignorant as hell and delight in others' misery. It was fun to watch Obama trounce 140 House Repugs in a remarkable debate on Jan 29 2010.
roblom 2 years ago
The constant juvenile attempt at back handed humor with reference to Republicans shows your lack of intelligence and logic. Let me leave this quote with you on my last correspondance... From someone who was a bit smarter than you are; The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill
2bapilot 2 years ago
@ 2bapilot
Churchill didn't know squat about health care. That's why he lost in a landslide in 1945. The new Prime Minister instituted socialized health care. Britain's National Health Service is very much alive to this day. No British politician of either major party dares to attack it.
The World Health Organization ranks U.S. health care 37th -- far from the best. 45,000 Americans die every year because of privatized health insurance -- and you like it that way. Shameless.
roblom 1 year ago
@ 2bapilot
Thomas Jefferson was a bit smarter than Churchill. Here is his view of corporations:
"I hope we shall... crush in its birth the aristocracy of our
moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our
government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of
our country." --Thomas Jefferson to George Logan, 1816.
roblom 1 year ago
He also said this..."A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government."
Thomas Jefferson
Define Irony... Arguing American Politics with a European Socialist who knows nothing about the freedoms the United States provides. How's that 10% and growing unemployment in your country working for you?
2bapilot 1 year ago
@2bapilot
Your quote from Jefferson's 1st inaugural in 1801 is incomplete. He said: "A wise and frugal government, WHICH SHALL RESTRAIN MEN FROM INJURING ONE ANOTHER, which shall leave them OTHERWISE [my emphasis] free to regulate ...."
That's the problem with arguing with a little fascist like you. You twist everything, even Jefferson, to fit your corporate agenda. Jefferson was aware of the threat to democracy posed by corporations. He didn't contradict the quote I cited.
roblom 1 year ago
@2bapilot
And another thing. Once and for all, I'm a Keynesian, not a socialist. There are certain things government does better, and other things the private sector does better. Government clearly does health care better. You see it in V.A. hospitals, Medicare, Britain's National Health Service, and in every industrialized country except ours. That's why our system is ranked 37th in the world!
roblom 1 year ago
The 10% unemployment is the result of 30 years of trickle down economics and insane trade agreements. Tax cuts for the rich do not translate into investments for more jobs. The idle rich simply take their extra money offshore -- to the Cayman Islands, to Swiss bank accounts, and even to Dubai where Halliburton is now headquartered. Trade agreements like NAFTA & GATT, signed by Clinton & supported by Republicans, are death warrants to our factories. Foreign nations protect their industries.
roblom 1 year ago 2
You clearly don't know what the hell you are talking about rob-some. Do you know who turns down more people for healthcare procedures than the "evil" insurance companies? Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA. Check your facts socialist.
Do you even know the definition of Facism? Exalts nationalism over the individual, uses modern techniques of propaganda and censorship to forcibly suppress political opposition, and engages in severe economic and social regimentation. Sounds like Obama to me!
2bapilot 1 year ago
@2baMoron
I didn't think you'd get the Keynsean reference. It must be tough to go through life with a very limited vocabulary. But then you can't even copy & paste a simple quote.
The government makes no secret that Medicare recipients need supplemental insurance. The Repugs weakened Medicaid in 2003 by creating the donut hole. That prevents the gov't from getting the lowest bid, costing seniors dearly. Still, both programs deliver quality care millions otherwise would miss.
roblom 1 year ago
I know exactly who John M Keynes is. Unlike you, I've actually read The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money.
If you can come off the moronic and juvenile name calling, I will continue our conversation. If you can't, I'm done with your vile filth.
The problem with Keynes is; in his view, the government can pay one person to dig holes, and pay another to fill them in. According to Keynes, this would have "created" two jobs. Unfortunately it creates no real product or service.
2bapilot 1 year ago
Admin costs for Medicare are 3% compared to 20-30% for private crooks like Stephen Hemsley.
On an earlier thread you praised the V.A. Then I informed you that it is socialized health care. Now you say it's bad. Were you lying then or now?
The classic definition of fascism is the fusion of government & corporations, originally practiced by Mussolini. That explains his logo of a bundle of sticks tied together. The definition you give is a generic description of totalitarianism.
roblom 1 year ago
@2bapilot
A merry Fuck You for questioning my patriotism. You're too fucking stupid to know you're supporting a party bent on destroying this country. The Repugs care only about enriching the already rich, and by extending corporate power. There aren't enough jobs that pay a living wage. Your little crack about the doughnut hole (that Repugs created) might count as wit among your dumbfuck friends. But to the elderly who have to choose between a meal or their pills, they endure a sad plight.
roblom 2 years ago
Damn Rob, you kiss your mom with that mouth? Nah, I'd bet mom is out of the picture... you probably weren't held enough as a child.
Keep it up, people like you helped elect Senator Brown. Go Obama, you're the best thing to ever happen to the Republican Party.! Please, please hold steady in your socialist views and agenda!
2bapilot 2 years ago
@2bapilot
My working class parents taught me to have compassion for others. Looks like compassion was in short supply in your household. So were books, judging from your puerile remarks.
How about that Congressional race in NY District 23 two months ago? The Repugs lost a seat they held since 1872! I didn't think you want to talk about that. As for Brown, his opponent put on a clinic on how not to campaign. Polls suggest Dems abandoned her because the health care bill was too watered down.
roblom 2 years ago
You seem so willing to go down the path to collective socialism. Why don't you ask the families of 7 to 10 milion Ukrainians that were starved to death during the Holodomor how that worked out for them. 25,000 deaths per day, in the interest of "collectivism". Blind compassion is ignorant. I have compassion based on factual history and the failure of any attempt of socialist utopia. If you love the European Socialists so much, move.
2bapilot 2 years ago
As far as the 23rd Congressional District goes... you aren't very good at numbers are you? You're assertion that these races are equal is laughable. That is one seat out of 435. And you've had Democrats changing to the Republican party and retiring right and left. Senator Brown is one of 100... HHmmm that's like 4 times as powerful! Shall we talk about Virginia and New Jersey too?
Go Obama... the health care bill didn't go far enough! Lets go for Cap and Trade and Amnesty too!
2bapilot 2 years ago
@2bapilot
My main point about NY23 is that a Repug win in 2010 is not inevitable. The two House pickups for Dems in November provided the margin of victory needed to pass the House health care bill.
The porn model who won in Mass. is pro-choice & voted for health care as state Senator. Voters preferred their state health care plan to the U.S. Senate version. Dems did not field progressives in NJ & VA. Truman said long ago that voters prefer Repug to Repug Lite.
roblom 2 years ago
@2bapilot
One minute you're praising socialized health care -- in the form of the American V.A. hospitals. The next minute you're comparing the two health care bills in Congress to Stalinist genocide! You have to be a total idiot if you approve of allowing insurance companies to deny claims because of preexisting conditions, or because of illness itself. Both versions remove these loopholes. The paper-pushers at insurance companies who use these loopholes are the real death panels.
roblom 2 years ago
this here video fills me with lust, wtf!?
lizlena789 2 years ago
Republicans are obstructionist and liars. Enough said.
whatnowgop 2 years ago
Ok serbfree, I'll be merciful. Since it's obvious you're INCAPABLE OF DEFENDING YOUR OWN CLAIM despite TEN requests to do so, I'll drop that one for now and try a new one...
YOU claim Jews would rather die than live in a black neighborhood. Please provide ONE ITEM of proof of that claim.
And bear in mind I know several Jewish people (men and women) who live in HARLEM. A neighborhood I'd bet a racist chickenshit like you wouldn't even walk through during the day, let alone night.
I'm waiting.
JustTheFax1 2 years ago
On second thought, forget about it. I'm bored of proving what an idiot you are. It was fun while it lasted, but I can only tolerate so much racist cowardice in one week. Good luck. Maybe one day the wizard will give you a brain.
JustTheFax1 2 years ago
Thankyou Minnesota :)
jasonjasonjason1 2 years ago
Incapable of what? I've asked you to defend ONE fact which I've debunked. NINE TIMES. You can't defend ONE FACT. And yet you accuse ME of ducking?
Since I started asking you to defend that ONE claim, you've ranted about at least 2 dozen other things, without ever coming close to answering the ONE question or even acknowledging that it's been asked. THAT'S DUCKING!
I'll ask you ONE LAST TIME. Defend your Walker/Kosar claim, admit you were wrong or keep acting like a ducking coward.
THAT'S 10!
JustTheFax1 2 years ago
LOL. Dozens of racist rants, and I can refute EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. Because NOT ONE of them means anything. Even IF they were all true, it still wouldn't prove a single thing about your "conspiracy."
What am I ducking? I've asked you EIGHT TIMES to defend ONE of your claims, and you can't do it. Why should I make the effort to debunk your dozens of other lies when you can't even defend ONE of them?
Answer the the question. Walker/Kosar. Stop being a coward and answer it!
That's 9 TIMES.
JustTheFax1 2 years ago
And THAT ladies and gentlemen is how you utterly pwn a racist coward! Thanks for playing, serbfree!
(Of course why anyone would bother is another question, but for now let's just call it insomnia :) )
JustTheFax1 2 years ago
Actually, I just realized something. Is it possible that you don't actually know what the word "conspiracy" means?
If that were the case, it would go a long way in explaining why even after dozens of posts you haven't actually provided one shred of evidence regarding one. It also wouldn't surprise me given how ignorant you've proven yourself to be.
JustTheFax1 2 years ago
Aaaaaaand I'm STILL waiting.
Seriously, how much meaningless racist crap can you post before you answer a simple question on something YOU brought up? I would love to debunk every single one of your lies, but they're just too hard to keep up with. Especially since you still won't answer ONE QUESTION...
WALKER/KOSAR. Explain it. Stop running away from like the coward you are.
That's EIGHT times.
JustTheFax1 2 years ago
Aaaaaaaaand I'm still waiting.
Tell you what. It's obvious your brain isn't powerful enough to answer two questions at the same time. And since it's obvious you haven't got ONE SHRED of evidence, I'll stop asking you for that. So I'll make it even easier for you.
Ready?
ONE QUESTION:
Explain YOUR accusation that Walker pissing his money away was the Jews' fault, but the Jewish Kosar also lost his money.
THAT'S SEVEN TIMES. Do I have to ask you an eighth?
JustTheFax1 2 years ago
Sigh... ok, I'll ask a SIXTH TIME.
1. Provide ONE SHRED OF EVIDENCE that this is all part of a conspiracy.
2. Explain why Walker pissing away his own money is part of a Jewish conspiracy, while Kosar (a Jew known for being "smart with his money") lost his on investments.
Or just keep digging yourself deeper and deeper into the same hole. Or at least provide something new. Up to now you've been comedy gold, but it's getting boring.
Do I have to ask a SEVENTH TIME?
JustTheFax1 2 years ago
Yep, that sure is a lot of racist bullshit you just said. Of course, among it all, there still isn't one shred of evidence, and nearly everything is conjecture or easily disproven.
1. Evidence of a conspiracy.
2. Walker/Kosar.
That's 5 times in a row. I would gladly debunk EVERYTHING you just said, but first things first. Respond to those two things. Or do you want me to ask you a sixth time?
JustTheFax1 2 years ago
Funny you should mention Henry Ford - another notorious racist like yourself.
Especially given that his whole opinion of the Jews was shaped by the "Elders of Zion," which he helped distribute... until he found out the whole thing was a forgery. He then recanted his position and apologized for his role in spreading it.
JustTheFax1 2 years ago
What the hell are you talking about? Looks like YOU are the one who is going off on meaningless tangents.
Look, I'm an American. I proudly support your RIGHT to say whatever ignorant racist bullshit you want. But if you're going to keep hitting "reply" to my posts then you should REPLY TO MY POSTS.
1. Evidence.
2. Walker/Kosar.
I've asked you four times in a row now.
JustTheFax1 2 years ago
REAL evidence. Evidence of a conspiracy. Not a bunch of names that you cherry picked that HAPPEN to be Jewish. You seriously think nobody could come up with a list 10 times as long of Christians who did much worse things? EVIDENCE!!!!!
Also, YOU are the one who brought up Walker. PROVE to me his pissing away his money was the Jews' fault. And EXPLAIN KOSAR.
Come on, you had a problem with me "changing arguments" (not true of course). Answer the two I've said three times in a row now.
JustTheFax1 2 years ago
Still waiting for that ONE shred of evidence.
Also still waiting for you to explain the Walker/Kosar thing.
JustTheFax1 2 years ago
I love it. You accuse me of changing my arguments and going on tangents, neither of which are remotely true, but everytime you get backed into a corner and can't answer my questions you just IGNORE everything I said and repeat your same original lies with nothing to back them up.
Still waiting for that ONE shred of evidence you have.
Still waiting to hear how Antoine Walker pissing away his money is part of the Jewish conspiracy, but Bernie Kosar lost his in investments despite being Jewish.
JustTheFax1 2 years ago
Also, I'd like to see you point out ONE time I changed my argument or went off on a tangent. Everything I've said is to demonstrate my one point, which is that you are driven by nothing but blind hate and cowardice.
Let me say it again. Unable to accept responsibility for YOUR OWN FAILINGS, you have chosen to blame the Jews, and you are cherry picking "facts" to justify your hate.
Go read my BS "black people" example again. I used EXACTLY the same method as you. But you're too blind to see it.
JustTheFax1 2 years ago
"Just the facts I see." EXACTLY! As I've been saying, all you have is BLIND HATE. The only racism going on here is yours.
YOU said black people are "easier to rip off," and YOU said a conspiracy is the ONLY possible explanation for a higher percentage of Jews in certain jobs - without providing a shred of evidence. You are a pure racist.
As for cherry picking, I just PROVED that you do. You said Antoine Walker (a known prodigal), I said Bernie Kosar - which you ignored. THAT'S CHERRY PICKING!
JustTheFax1 2 years ago
Interesting. I'd love to hear some black peoples' reactions to your assertion that they're "easier to rip off."
And are you saying Walker going broke had NOTHING to do with his own actions? He pissed away his own money on a massive entourage, cars, etc. And, his ex-agent is one of the people he owes money to!
Meanwhile Bernie Kosar (Jewish QB) is broke too. Shouldn't the Jewish conspiracy have made sure he was taken care of?
You're still just cherry picking facts to justify your blind hate.
JustTheFax1 2 years ago
Wow, the one thing I didn't expect from you is to provide a link PROVING my (totally bullshit) theory. And now that you mention it, I don't know anybody who had slaves either. You know what that means? SLAVERY AND SEGREGATION WERE A HOAX!!!
So once again, using YOUR logic, there's a great black conspiracy which created a hoax about slavery to help take over sports, the media, and the government. And both Jews and non-Jews need to understand that they must be removed for the sake of USA economy.
JustTheFax1 2 years ago
By the way, I could do the same thing with white people (almost every Fortune 500 CEO is a white male! English is the dominant trade language despite being a worldwide minority!), Native Americans or whoever.
The point, which keeps whizzing past your head, is that when you START with a premise - in your case that there's a massive Jewish conspiracy - you can fit any sort of "facts" to it you want. But in reality, it's nothing more than blind hate and willful ignorance.
JustTheFax1 2 years ago
Ok, serbfree. Let's see if I can do the same thing you do:
---
BLACK PEOPLE are trying to take over the world! After centuries of oppression, they're seeking revenge against white people, and their plan is already working. FIRST they sought to take over the culture. Despite being a minority the vast majority of sports stars are black. Basketball, baseball, football and they even placed someone in golf! GOLF! A supposedly white-dominated sport! How do you explain that?
JustTheFax1 2 years ago
Part 2:
And then theres the music, the fashion, basically all the kinds of people OUR KIDS see as role models. All dominated by the minority black people. And now we see the results of their conspiring to take over our culture. This minority now has the leaders of BOTH political parties! The presidency and the RNC chair. How else could a relative unknown come out of nowhere to become president? And how else could a black man become chair of the virtually all-white GOP?
JustTheFax1 2 years ago
Part 3:
Sure, to the sheep it SEEMS like theyre fighting each other, but really theyre brothers in the same conspiracy who are acting like that to trick us. So there you have it. Total dominance over our culture/media as well as political rule. All part of the great black conspiracy to take over the world!
---
Sounds ridiculous, doesnt it? Thats because it IS ridiculous. And its also EXACTLY the same logic and facts that you are using in your absurd anti-Semitic blame game.
JustTheFax1 2 years ago
Do any of the politicians understand that if you tax a manufacturer or service, they will simple pass that cost down to the customer? It only indicates that people like Franken, both Dems and Rep. have no clue to how business or the economy work. No where in this history of our country , has the government produced jobs or caused the economy to improve. Franken is just a far left nut with money, that wants to spend YOUR money.
wsoxman 2 years ago
Franken keeps kicking the republicans arownd. i understand why they hate him so much
NosfeRadu1 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Those are still opinions. Moron. Facts, actual data is what I asked for. Moron. If you have nothing but what somebody else told you then please let the informed adults carry on with the conversatio. Moron.
ruloaas 2 years ago
Those are still opinions. Moron. Facts, actual data is what I asked for. Moron. If you have nothing but what somebody else told you then please let the informed adults carry on with the conversatio. Moron.
ruloaas 2 years ago
My pity might be misguided, but it's not false. I really do feel sorry for you.
Sure, you've said the same thing repeatedly. It's still shit. You're STARTING with a premise and then fitting whatever you can into it, while burying your head in the sand with everything that doesn't. You're a coward who can't accept responsibility for his own life, and you've latched onto a convenient instead.
There's nothing for me to "lose." I have facts and logic. You have blind hate and ignorance. No contest
JustTheFax1 2 years ago
Then you will agree that people should "accept responsibility for their own life's?" Therefore, government should stay out of "Their life's"
Therefore $trillions of dollars in PORK spending, to bailout companies and people that are irresponsible, is wrong. Therefore, don't make me buy health insurance or aid people that don't care about their life.
wsoxman 2 years ago
Again I'm confused by your point. You took one comment of mine out of context, applied it to two completely different subjects, along with massive over-simplification and assumptions about my position on both of them. I don't even know where to begin a debate there.
For now I'll just point out that I used to be VERY libertarian (bordering on anarchist). But slowly my ideology changed in the face of facts and pragmatism. Serbfree is clearly imprisoned by his ideology. Hopefully you are not.
JustTheFax1 2 years ago
@ourflag... - You should post your replies directly to me -- not hide them half a screenpage away.
You conveniently forget Obama inherited a huge mess from Bush: two wars and a wrecked economy. Contrast that to Bush who inherited two budget surpluses & relative peace. And Bush ignored Richard Clarke's warnings of al Qaeda attacks.
FDR proved you can spend your way out of a Depression by stimulating growth. Ourflag, you dismiss any evidence against your narrow views.
roblom 2 years ago
roblom- lets not forget Bush inherited a gutted military/ CIA because of a phony 'peace dividend' - so much for your phantom surplus. The only thing FDR proved was that you can keep the unemployment above 20% with run away spending. The only thing that ended the depression was preparing for WWII. (and yes, FDR ignored the warnings surrounding Pearl Harbor.) Now, lets see some good intelligent dribble - give me your best shot.
rzrbckgrl 2 years ago
rzrbckgrl- What's the point of rational debate with the likes of you? Your head is too far up your ass for any facts to seep into your alternate reality. The following is addressed to those capable of reason. FDR didn't willfully ignore warnings about Pearl. The Air Force installed radar stations in Hawaii that detected approaching bombers. But not enough staff knew enough about the new technology to give it credence. Read "At Dawn We Slept" for more military errors.
roblom 2 years ago
roblom- rational debate? you defend a man that turned a recession into a lengthy depression. FDR planned for WWII and needed a way to enter. How else can you employ millions of Americans? FDR made up rights (like healthcare) and manipulated the supreme court. A classic East coast liberal that you defend. youre a joke.
rzrbckgrl 2 years ago
Typical right-winger. I clean up one of your lies and you spew out three more, while ignoring the rebuttal. The rational observer can see you have nothing.
roblom 2 years ago
rzrbckgrl Part 2-
FDR spent the rest of his presidency crushing those who perpetrated the attack.
In contrast, Bush ignored a Presidential Daily Brief, dated August 6, 2001entitled "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S." The 9/11 Commission discovered this in sworn testimony by inept National Security Advisor Condeleeza Rice. Bush stayed on vacation in Crawford, Tx for 5 weeks! That's the longest vacation by any U.S. President! A CIA agent went to Texas & delivered the warning in person.
roblom 2 years ago
rzrbckgrl Part 3-
Bush told the agent: "All right. You've covered your ass, now." Doofus remained on vacation (just like he did after Katrina). Investigative reporter Ron Suskind also reported in "The One Percent Doctrine" that Bush deliberately withheld U.S. troops when they could have trapped Bin Laden & his army at Tora Bora in December 2001. He instead left the job to rented Afghans who didn't care.
Bin Laden and his men thus escaped into Pakistan. We are still dealing with this mess.
roblom 2 years ago
rzrbckgrl Part 4-
Any comparison between FDR's resolve and Bush's resolve is pitiful.
Remember this gem from Bush's March 13, 2002 press conference? So I don't know where [Bin Laden] is.... You know, I just don't spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you.... I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him."
There you have it. I gather facts, nonpartisan sources & direct quotes before I form my views. Right wing trolls have only their talking points.
roblom 2 years ago
FDR was the king of entitlements - now Obama will take the mantle while my children/ grandchildren pay for it. Since you want to call me a right wing troll remember to include your address we can see just how tuff you are. Maybe I can beat some since into you.
rzrbckgrl 2 years ago
Try beating some "since" into yourself, asswipe. It's tough to argue without a fact to stand on, isn't it?
roblom 2 years ago
What a moron-
Unable to defend FDR's turning a recession into a depression and unable to defend Obama's 14 Trillion dollar waste you you choose to call someone you have no clude abut an asswipe. So, how was 8th grade today you littel toad? Defend yourself toad!!!
rzrbckgrl 2 years ago
rzrbckgrl, your FDR claims are just more lies. The truth is NOBODY knows what would have happened without the New Deal. All we have are conflicting theories and ideologies. ANYONE who says otherwise is a liar.
But what I do find amusing about that argument is when people say, "WWII ended the depression," without actually asking themselves why. The change that happened during WWII was MORE government spending. You're free to be a partisan/ideologue if you want, but you can't have it both ways.
JustTheFax1 2 years ago
No one knows what would have happened? Are you kidding me? FDR ruled by throwing entitlements around and you call apposing that being partisan? Honestly, WWII created a huge peacetime boom fueled by the private sector. Your critical thinking is impressive, NOT. Now, that is really amusing:)
rzrbckgrl 2 years ago
@rzrbck- FDR inherited 25% unemployment from Hoover in 1933. Google "FDR wikipedia." If you can't do that, ask any 8th grader for help. Most semi-conscious people would call that a depression, not a recession. By the end of his 1st term unemployment dropped to 14.3%. That's without WWII.
Obama hopes to get the same bounce. That's how investments work. FDR's New Deal, Truman's GI bill, Ike's Interstate Highway Act all cost a lot up front & paid off big later. Bush wasted 5 trill on nada.
roblom 2 years ago
Roblom-
FDR extended the depression by 7 years - I hate to break it to you. With uber government spending that inflate supply & demand the self correctiing forces of the free market cannot work. I dont understand what 'bounce' you talk about. I abslotely recall Obama harping about the horrlbe George Bush economy when uenmployment was 4.5%. Obama hopes to drag this country into an entitlement laden socialism.
rzrbckgrl 2 years ago
If you search "wiki economic policy of the George W. Bush administration" you'll see Bush inherited 4.1% unemployment in Jan 2001. That rate rose to 7.2% in Dec 2008. Nothing to boast about. And the Wall Street meltdown happened on Bush's watch. Obama saw what was coming.
Again, FDR inherited 25% unemployment after 3 failed Republican administrations. The rate dropped to 1.9% in 1945.
Obama is a Keynesian (look it up), not a socialist. So far he's been too kind to Wall St IMHO.
roblom 2 years ago
Roblom needs to rely on Wiki and sound bites for his research, obviously. Keynsian is socialist when government uses monetary policy to effect supply & demand. To quote a 1.9% unemployment rate after a 4 year war is laughable. George Bush did not buy millions of homes he couldnt afford - which resulted in the meltdown. You are a not well read.
rzrbckgrl 2 years ago
Billions of dollars toward war over a lie is why the economy is the way it is. The immoral republicans waging murderous war and corruption beyond the grace of God is why the entire party is going to hell.
quicksiliva 2 years ago
TRILLIONS of dollars toward a phony claim of global warming. immoral liberal democrats ripping the democratic party (and the USA) apart. Liberal democrats - complete hyporites. All of them.
rzrbckgrl 1 year ago
@rzrbckgrl Matthew 19:21 Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."
quicksiliva 2 years ago
Wait a minute, rzrbckgrl is accusing OTHER PEOPLE of relying on sound bites? That's the funniest thing I've seen all day! LOLOLOL
She still claims to know the ONE TRUE STORY of FDR's policies, which even the top economists in the world can't agree on except to say there's no way to really know. She doesn't even understand her own Bible references (one of MANY meanings of "render unto Caesar" is to pay your taxes/God doesn't need your money).
She literally has NO IDEA what she's talking about.
JustTheFax1 2 years ago
Oh, please!! "top economists of the world"??? I thought this was still the United States. Oh, you must think youve already managed an uber government with Obamofraud as fruher. ONE TRUE STORY?? who said that? I simply pointed out correctly that FDR extended the depression for 5 yrs by raising taxes and increasing spending. Sorry if you cant refute. Thats not my problem.
rzrbckgrl 2 years ago
I hate to break the news to you, but the U.S. is IN the world. But jeez, if you're going to throw a hissy fit over it fine.... the top economists in the UNITED STATES. Happy now, nutbag?
And YOU said your version is the one true story. And you just repeated it right now. If you knew the slightest thing about economics, you would know that it's IMPOSSIBLE to know whether or not FDR "extended the depression." All ANYONE can claim are theories. Sorry if you can't see reason. That's not my problem.
JustTheFax1 2 years ago
@rzrbck
You seem to be saying war is always great for solving unemployment. Well, unemployment doubled after 7 years of Bush's wars. FDR punished war profiteers through the Truman Commission. Bush & Cheney encouraged war profiteers like Cheney's former company Halliburton. They even granted them immunity.
The Wiki articles I quote are all footnoted to outside sources. You do know what footnotes are? I also quoted other sources. You haven't refuted any. You merely spew more lies.
roblom 2 years ago
@rzrbck
In fact you haven't cited a single reference throughout this thread! If you did, it would either be Fixed News, The Pigman (that's Rush Limpbaugh), or some other right wing swill. You're just another phony patriot who hates Americans. Trailer trash is a state of mind.
roblom 2 years ago
roblom-
Citing? You still havent cited exactly where obamofraud gets the authority to push his commie health care package. So tell me roblomboy - is he citing that famous health clause in the constitution?? Now go run to MSNBC for your Kool-Aid fix.
rzrbckgrl 1 year ago
roblem-
Wrong - you like muddling connotations of my argument to fit your argument. "Bush's Wars?" Please - You can quote Wiki till youre blue in the face - but you will never escape the fact FDR extended the depression for years with his spending. FDR had nothing to do with the Truman commision - FDR was an aging doofus; Truman rose to prominence with HIS commission. With 1.5 Trillion already spent by Obamafraud you havent a leg to stand on regarding your profiteering argument.
rzrbckgrl 1 year ago
@rzrbckgrl Jesus told us to help the poor and the sick. Why are you still thinking about yourself being taxed more in order to fulfill the wishes of Jesus? It sounds like you're more on the side of Satan, rather than Jesus.
quicksiliva 2 years ago