The white guardian - Dr Who - BBC sci-fi

[animationdude56]

So, why create these six segments in the first place if they're to dangerous for any being?

[fjccommish]

When someone appoints you a Tahhhhsk, then you know it's important.

[vinceandlilly]

OMG My dad has this on VHS!

[rkoigal]

not necessarily! in The Doctors eyes, most people say time is a "strict line" of progression from cause to effect but actually (according to The Doctor) from a non-linear, non-subjectiveopint of view it is a big bal of...wibbly wobbly time-y wimey... stuff.

[BeamSurfer]

time is linear, it's a straight line

why do we describe time to linear dimensions....

we say "How Long" or "how short" , or time"line" or a short time... etc... it's a single dimension.

[Callithyia]

The White Guardian looks like he's about to break the fourth wall and advertise fried chicken...

[StopPanSlavicLies]

Does Dr. Who even have God?

[unclemarty70]

time doesn't make sense sometimes .....thats the magic.....good luck trainee timelords........and remember god exists and he doesn't call the qualified ....he qualifies the called..............one last thing remember the doctors oath...." DO NO HARM"

[bluemoon692]

1:19

Its not a cube.

[doctorw2]

this is why the time war scenerio that russel t davies made up makes no sense the guardians and the celestis are powerfull enough to prevent such a war from happening rassilon himself is powerfull enough to prevent such a war from happening. lawrence miles story the war in heaven makes more sense becuase the enemy that topples the timelords are ancient mysterious and very powerful. daleks deafeating timlords is like a group of ants overturning an elephant.

[DarkJoker7]

@doctorw2 they didn't defeat them...the doctor did something that killed them all

[doctorw2]

@DarkJoker7 i know that but, still daleks going up against timelords is just plain impossible the daleks or any body else would have been eradicted especialy if rassilon the most powerfull timelord of all was part of the war. russel t davies time war is full of more holes than swiss cheese lawrence miles war in heaven made more sense the enemy was unamed and mysterious but very powerfull. i love the paradox faction and the celestis story plot it is more interesting and much more complex.

[DarkJoker7]

@doctorw2 thats like saying the USA can never fall...all it takes is for the powerful to ignore the weak

[doctorw2]

@DarkJoker7 thats a horrid analogy gallifrey is a planet fueled by the core of a black hole and the timelords could tap into that power which is infinite plus rassilon possesed powers no other timelord fully understood. the daleks were once used by timelords to fight in their time games in the arena for amusement so they could not pose any sort of threat to timelords all aliens except for sutekh,the fendhal, and the timewyrm could never stand up timelords.

[DarkJoker7]

@doctorw2 you forget the daleks had numbers on their side...where as the time lords only allowed so many time lords to be living at one time...

[doctorw2]

@DarkJoker7 numbers mean nothing when you have access to the most advanced weapons in the universe.

[DarkJoker7]

@doctorw2 it was 100 million versus a little over a million battle tardises but the tardises could only travel in space...because the time lords time locked the time war so that no one in the future could change the events of the war in the future. and rassilon wasn't even leading the time lords at the time they had a female president at the time who stepped down after a number of years of the war and they ressurected rassilon

[doctorw2]

@DarkJoker7 thats the bit that doesnt make sense you see about russel t davies time war plot. rassilon was already immortal and existed as a conceptual intelligence that guarded gallifrey and his powers were very extensive no timelord could ressurect him because he really was not dead to begin with (The five doctors episode) thats why the end of time episode did not make any sense and neither does the time war lawrence miles war in heaven makes much more sense.

[DarkJoker7]

@doctorw2 he was stuck in a divergent universe where who knows what befell him while there...

[sixstanger00]

@doctorw2 Davies often demonstrated that he didn't go out of his way to do research so that his stories would make flow seamlessly from the original series. I think that since Moffat took over though, the series is starting to return to its original format, without all of the Doctor/Rose twilighty stuff in it. RTD just wasnt cut out for writing good Doctor Who, and Moffat showed that he was with his first attempt, "The Empty Child."

[doctorw2]

@sixstanger00 yes moffats stories are more like the classic style doctor who stories but, i am a bit dissapointed in moffat too that episode the beast below blymy that was a very bad episode it had potential to be a great episode but, moffat mucked things up with that absurd plot of a star whale piloting a horrid cheesy looking star ship, that episode had me cringing my teeth and that dalek episode was awfull and now the christmas special has a cgi shark bloody hell what is moffat thinking?

[Kaagh178]

@doctorw2 The flying sharks could prove to be a good monster. Personally, I think Moffat's two best creations are the Weeping Angels and the Vashta Nerada. I agree, 'The Beast Below' was slightly disappointing and I think it would have benefitted from being a two parter with more plot twists. Same goes for 'Victory of the Daleks' . But RTD always contradicted himself or flat out lied. Like when he said the Master or the Daleks would never return or that Rose would never use a gun.

[doctorw2]

@Kaagh178 flying sharks a good monster? i dont think so i would have made a drashing or something like a hydra be the monster for the christmas episode. moffat can do better than have something like a flying shark be the monster for the christmas episode.

[Kaagh178]

@doctorw2 We'll just have to wait and see. Since Steven Moffat had just made Doctor Who Live (which was a sequel to 'Carnival of Monsters') I'm guessing he didn't want to use the Drashigs anytime soon. What I personally would've like to have been in the 2010 Christmas Special were the Yeti (who were rumoured to appear for some time) but you can't have everything you want.

[Kaagh178]

@doctorw2 That said, RTD has written some brilliant stuff. 'Rose' like 'The Eleventh Hour' was an ideal opener and made the Series successful once again. The Eccleston and Tennant finales really gave them a great sendoff and did their Doctors justice. But let's face it. 'Love and Monsters' was atrocious. I mean, the Abzorbaloff was designed by a freaking kid for crying out loud! Although his stories did sometimes get a little too silly, I think that overall RTD found the right balance of humour.

[doctorw2]

@Kaagh178 no rose was a terrible series opener i could have written a better series opening in my sleep, the eleventh hour was better than all four series openings put together. i thank GOD that russel t davies put doctor who back on television i just wish somebody else was head writer and producer like lawrence miles or terrance dicks or even better pj hammond who is an excellent script writer. what was lacking in the russel t davies era was contunity and inventive and innovative stories.

[Kaagh178]

@doctorw2 I disagree. I think 'Rose' needed to reintroduce (or in some cases introduce for the first time) the audience to the wonderful world of the Doctor and his TARDIS. RTD said the pilot had to have a real world feel, very modern and domestic. If it had started with a villainous cloaked alien making threats on a purple planet with 3 moons then people would've been alienated. RTD's main problem was that he was obsessed with London as a recurring setting. Thank Steven Moffat for Leadworth.

[doctorw2]

@Kaagh178 well if i was head producer for doctor who back in 2005 i would have picked up where the eigth doctor who novel the gallifrey chronicles left off where the eigth doctor leaped into a vore nest on earth, i would not have had eccleston to play the doctor but, i would have chosen benedict cumberbatch to potray the ninth doctor casting eccleston was a mistake becuase eccleston is a film actor and they hate being typecast. the episode would have occured on earth but, not with autons.

[Kaagh178]

@doctorw2 I think if you picked up from where an obscure Eighth Doctor novel left off, you'd have had a very confused audience. A majority haven't read any of the Doctor Who books and thus know nothing of the plotlines or the companions. I agree Benedict Cumberpatch would make a good Doctor but he himself has said he doesn't want the part, as it draws too much media and public attention and comes with great expectation. As for Eccleston, he started off in TV before doing films.

[doctorw2]

@Kaagh178 no it would not confuse the audience at all becuase most of them were not familiar with doctor who at all even when the episode rose aired people were just getting aquainted with the show, so picking up where the last eigth doctor who novel left off would not have mattered, in fact it would have kicked off the series with much larger ratings. if i couldnt get cumberbatch to do doctor who i would have got robson green or that one bloke who plays the vampire on the series being human.

[Kaagh178]

@doctorw2 But the audience might feel like they've come into a recent storyline they've just missed. That would be too much like a Soap Opera. Aidan Turner from Being Human is a good actor. I just don't feel he fits the role of the Doctor. Don't get me wrong he has the right kind of intensity and foreboding presence, but I just don't feel any quirkiness from him. And to be the Doctor you have to have eccentricity as well as seriousness. I've never even heard of Robson Green.

[doctorw2]

@Kaagh178 robson green is the brilliant actor from the series wire in the blood a criticly accliamed drama, as for aidan turner would fit the doctor who role perfectly he can do quirky if tennant can pull it off so can he. the time war was a storyline the audience missed and doctor who is a sci fi soap opera always has been which is marvelous there is nothing wrong with soap operas they are very popular after all. the war in heaven storyline would have worked a lot better than that time war one.

[Kaagh178]

@doctorw2 (Continued) In fact that's where he first worked with Davies on 'The Second Coming'. And I for one like the Autons and was glad to see them return. They're one of the few Doctor Who monsters (along with the Cybermen, the Gelth, the Weeping Angels and the Smilers) that I find genuinely creepy.

[doctorw2]

@Kaagh178 the autons were just fine for the classic series of doctor who but, im sorry they were a poor choice to open the new series with when you have a new series you want to start with something new and work your way down to something familiar. if i had been head producer back in 2005 the war in heaven storyline would have been used and that whole time war with the daleks would have been sacked the real protaganists of the war would have been kept a secret until season four.

[Kaagh178]

@doctorw2 They could mention the War in Heaven in the new series and the consequences of the conflict on the Universe as well. Not to mention the War with the Enemy. Moffat has hinted that the Silence could be a rogue time group like Faction Paradox. The whole point of the Autons being used to reintroduce the show was to, in the context of the setting, utilize the fear of a consumer society gone wrong.

[doctorw2]

@Kaagh178 no they cant mention the war in heaven becuase the daleks were not part of that war and daleks being a threat to timelords is absurd in the first place it would take an enemy of considerable power to topple timelords and the daleks arent up to scratch. The silence is likely the celestis,the pantheon of discord, or one of those things from the timewar such as the nightmare child or the could have been king with its army of neverweres and meanwhiles. riversong is zodin or the rani.

[Kaagh178]

@doctorw2 It was an intruiging idea that the Daleks could even come close to threatening the power of the Time Lords. But that would explain why the Time Lords sent the Doctor back to avert the Daleks' creation. They knew how powerful the Daleks would one day become. I'd prefer the Silence to be Omega. He's the only main recurring antagonist (aside from the Rani and the Meddling Monk) who hasn't returned in the new series.

[doctorw2]

@Kaagh178 omega died in the arc of infinity if they bring him back they will have a lot of explaining to do. as for the daleks the timelords were afraid that they would destroy all other creatures in the cosmos due to their extreme aggression thats why they sent the fourth doctor to advert their creation. the timelord that spoke to the fourth doctor was from the celestis and they certianly did not fear the daleks at all.

[Kaagh178]

@doctorw2 Actually, when Omega vanished after being shot in 'The Arc of Infinity' both the Doctor and the Time Lords weren't certain if Omega was dead. They hoped that he could finally rest in peace. But didn't the Doctor presume him deceased at the end of 'The Three Doctors' as well? Remember, the Doctor isn't always right. Omega might still be out there somewhere, trapped in the Universe of Anti Matter, lonely, bitter and plotting his revenge against the Doctor and the Universe.

[doctorw2]

@Kaagh178 omega was in the anti matter universe when the doctors defeated him in the three doctors so of course the doctor was wrong in assuming he was dead then becuase how could an anti matter being die in its own universe it created? in the arc of infinity omega died on earth in the world of matter while he was in a material body if they bring him back they have a lot of explaining to do.

[Kaagh178]

@doctorw2 (Continued) As for River Song, some think she's Romana. I hope not. A younger actress, around Matt Smith's age (mid twenties) should play Romana when she returns. River could be the Doctor's wife, but Moffat said that was too obvious (just like it was too obvious as to the four knocks being the Master, in fact in was Wilfred) and it's already been heavily implied that she's the Doctor's future killer.

[Kaagh178]

@doctorw2 (Concluded) River could only be the Terrible Zodin if she used a perception filter. This is because as is mentioned in 'The Five Doctors' she was covered in hair and hopped like a kangaroo. Hardly inconspicuous eh?

[doctorw2]

@Kaagh178 if moffat has brought zodin to the series he more than likely will change the characters appearance and she will be nothing like what the doctor described her to be in the novels.

[DarkJoker7]

@doctorw2 technology doesn't always win the war

[BannedFromThisSite]

Spoiler Alert:

You mean the Black.. Guardian...

[14DaveHunter]

According the the bonus footage in "The Black Guardian" trilogy, the White Guardian was like the Doctor meeting God. That explains the "cathedral" like organ music. The White Gaurdian was one of my favorite characters. I hope BBC brings him back in the new series. RIP Cyril Lukham, the original White Guardian.

[bbqplatypus318]

I love the dialogue during this scene.

"Nothing at all...ever."

Proof - even in an episode considered to be one of his "lesser" works - that Robert Holmes was the greatest screenwriter in the history of Doctor Who.

[sixstanger00]

Lesser? I thought this episode was superb! I have the DVD! Its one of my favorites!

[bbqplatypus318]

I liked it very much, too. That's why I said "considered" - I wouldn't have bothered to say that if I agreed. It's generally CONSIDERED to be a lesser work of his, though. At least I thought that was the consensus.

[leonifan]

@shadows124 Or rather, nothing interesting would ever happen again for the rest of his life: a fate worse than death for the Doctor...

[shadows124]

lololol So true.

[maxcardun]

@shadows124 No he pretty much said that nothing would happen.  Meaning that nothing would happen that would be exciting or dangerous which is the reason the doctor travels around in the first place. The white Guardian was threatening a dull existance would happen if he did not volunteer. Something that would not work for the Doctor especially the fourth one.

[JWhitelaw99]

This is bloody great

[iveseenspikynorman]

woah! The Doctor answering to someone else. "Sorry, sir." What are Guardians? Reply to me, please, cause I probably won't know if anyone answered otherwise.

[sl1963]

Guardians are badasses who you don't wanna mess with. Especially the Black Guardian! Check out the Black Guardian Trilogy with Peter Davison as the Fifth Doctor it's just out on DVD.

[Dubzoomember]

No one really knows.

[britredneck]

there are two guardians, the black and white guardian.

both bring balance to the universe...just think along the lines of Ting and Yang peace +chaos etc

[thanqualhighseer]

there are six guardians, only 2 were shown in the key to time arc.

black=chaos

white=order

azure=equlibrium

gold=life

crystal=dreams/illusions ( the celestial toymaker was the guardian)

red= justice ( belived to be the doctors final incarnation

[OmegaShenron6574]

really? i thought there was only white and black. hold on if the celestial toymaker is a guardianw why would he oppose the doctor

[thanqualhighseer]

although the black guardian was evil and the white good, the others tended to be capable of being any point in between. the celestial toymaker although a guardian was still petty, cruel and manipulative ( like a human ). the man who played the black guardian was actually in the short list to play the fourth doctor but lost out to tom baker.

[ApocalypseNext]

Which episodes are the others in?

[paulmorris7777]

Nice piece of directing!

[fishcat42]

Remember, you have to factor in the difference between planets. Gallifreyans age five times slower than humans, if we go by the very few clues given in the series on Time Lord physiology. (The maximum life expectancy of a regeneration is given as 1,000 years in Deadly Assassin, cell damage suggests humans could not live beyond about 200 even with perfect medicine. We know William Hartnell's physical age and the age of the First Doctor, and similarly Romana II's age and Lalla Ward's.)

[Tripp1993]

Does the White Guardian look like The Architect in "The Matrix Reloaded" and "The Matrix Revolutions" to you?

[ReginaMac]

Technically, wouldn't the Architect look like the White Guardian?

[soo6240]

FFor those who do not know. The White Guardian never asked for the key to time. The guardian that you see was actually the Dark Guardian. The Doctor tricked the White Guardian to revealed his true nature before he presented the key to him. I am writing this in the voice of the twelve year old that viewed this episode in the early 1980s. Damn I forgot how hot Ramana was.

[fishcat42]

The "White Guardian" in the final episode of the arc is really the Black Guardian, correct. However, this presumably -is- the White Guardian, as it would be senseless to warn The Doctor about himself. AHA! The New Series, with its Time War, is the "eternal chaos" warned of! The Key was never given to the real White Guardian. The Time Lords and Galifrey represent order and are indeed lost, and the Daleks represent eternal chaos and are rapidly taking over all of time.

[fangirlATT]

nice theory fishcat42, but I highly doubt it. It is a great idea though but I think "eternal chaos" would be if the time war ever ended, but that is just me. There is a possibility of what your idea was, though.

[Fattyrat]

yeah, but i don't care, let them have the one up... XD

[Fattyrat]

u 12 then? (u seem to have a consistantcy with that age... u no what i'm trying to say...)

[Fattyrat]

yeah, i can't spell though, although i sometimes can when i'm not on a computer because i'm not rushing it

[greengrendel]

It's funny to see the doctor aknowledging someone as superior!

[2206411411]

Unless the pieces were returned to The White Guardian, the universe would be plunged into eternal chaos. They never were returned to him. This explains much about the new series.

[heeroyuy112]

u do know that the guardian was able to do his work while the key was assembled.he didnt need it to be returned and besides he wouldnt have been so cruel as to let the princess who was the sixth segement to remain like that.

[scificola]

The Architect #0

[Fattyrat]

Hey BBC, when r u goning 2 realise the Deadly Assasin on DVD? It's one i really want out.