LOL the F-22 and F-15 were both beaten into battle 4 times by American Airlines using only TV dinners... All the tech on Gods green Earth is pointless if theres a "dick holding the stick"
@GK007001 True, when America first saw Migs the Russians had fitted cannons and shot the US out the sky. The Americans went into retrofit - lol. The newest tranche of Eurofighter has 360deg thrust vectoring and will cream an F-22. Your right that in war, time is everything and America holds back just as long as it can and is typically forced to fight once an opponent is brow beaten. US army vs a fresh 1939 Waffen SS division = total Fail. Yanks are good at fighting farmers and kids in sandals.
IAF’s has had good experience with small jets such as Gnat which earned the reputation of “Sabre Slayer” in the 1965 war with Pakistan. The under-development LCA Tejas promises to carry on this legacy when it replaces the Bison.
The small size (lower visual signature) and inherently small radar cross section coupled with modern avionics, radar, effective jammers, precision guided munitions and missiles (R-73, R-77) make Bison one of the best fighters in IAF after Su-30 and Mirage-2000
This is not the first time the MiG-21 Bison has been praised for successes during dissimilar air combat training (DACT) – even during previous USAF exercise and internal IAF exercises pilots are known to have scored ‘kills’ against more advanced adversaries.
Flanker come with lighter anti-FOD grills in the intakes as well as wheel fenders that catch FOD. IAF has precautions built into their SOPs – which may be overlooked in case of war or any such exigency. Since the deployment was far away from home base in the USA, with no spares support and related infrastructure it was well worth to observe strict adherence to SOPs instead to being stuck with a grounded aircraft!
Soviet era aircraft were designed to operate from poorly prepared airfields. For example; MiG-29 closes its intakes during taxi and take-off to avoid ingestion of FOD thrown up by the front wheels. In this state the engines are supplied air thru louvres located on upper surface of the leading edge. This design feature is at the cost of significant internal fuel capacity and hence has been eliminated in newer MiG-29 versions starting with the K/KUB variants.
Nor did U.S. pilots believe they faced only India's top guns. Instead, they said that at least in some units they faced a mix of experienced and relatively new Indian fighter and strike pilots.”. Moreover, the mix of experience needs to be examined for the USAF squadrons as well. The aggressor squadron at Nellis and the F-22 attracts the best in the USA.
The high mix of highly experienced pilots in Ex Cope India, if true, cannot be consistent across all sqns that were involved in the exercise. During Cope India, the 24 Sqn operating Su-30K/MK was first Flanker unit in the IAF and only one of two Su-30 units in the entire IAF at that time. To find a concentration of senior pilots in these squadrons will not be unexpected given that these units will be forging doctrines and tactics and building up a pool of pilots. Per article on Cope India here;
Su-30MKI is equipped with its own data link which can share target information across multiple fighters. IAF is presently inducting A-50EI Phalcon AEW&C aircraft. Red Flag and other exercises before it have seen IAF working very closely with the AWACS crew of the other air force. Operational Data Link (ODL) will be provided to all fighters in the IAF over the coming years.
The Su-30MKI did not use the data link in the exercise unlike the other air forces. The reason being the HAL supplied system is not compatible with NATO data links – neither is the system required to be compatible with NATO. The speaker clearly mentions that the high fratricide ratio in the kills was because of this reason. While NATO air forces are designed to inter operate with each other and carry out joint missions, the IAF is not.
you have to rember that countries like india are just experiencing combat as of late, so this colonel is not presenting unbiased judgement - easy lack of validity from other persectives.. hes just a joke in front of a dinner or a drunk audience
xaxa... this is fail 100%. Indian dont use Russian data link. Indian use BARS radar who have same functions as AWACS... so why can he not distinct friend to foe? I think this video is propaganda by USAF to make USA buy F-22, and nothing more. :P
its constructive criticism and hes lightening the mood with the manner hes speaking....idians need to chill...they should be grateful they were invited to Red flag
And, in response to your other video about the F-22 being "exposed", just yet another lie created by liberal tree huggers here in the US that anti-US people like youself like to cite. Watch this counter for the truth; v=RgiThPPnIcY
The truth is that F-22's w/ rookie pilots have been dominating in exercises. It is racking up unheard of kill records. Other fighter haven't had a clue that it's in the area & it has gotten easy mock kills both at BVR and WVR. MKI is shit, even beaten by old f15s
The MiG was disqualified because IAF thought its too risky to depend on one supplier for all arms. The F-22 project was ended in 2009 and USAF will place no further orders. Read Wiki amigo. I rest my case
@goodwise24 The F-22 is still in production until the end of the year. Its production was cut due to economic issues not performance. This has happened to early every defense program across the world so it’s not unique to the F22.
The Mig 35 lost because it sucked. It’s bleed, instant, and sustained turn rates, and avionics was inferior to all competitors. Google “For heaven's sake, don't buy Russian MiG-35”
Construcitve criticism?!! Sure! Were IAF pilots and chiefs attending that lecture??!!
Let him do that for the American troops in Iraq & Afghanistan. They need all the the help in the real combat world. Their troops would be much better off if they kept away from their video games and Hollywood movies like Rambo, etc.
@GeneralMcCudden Ah I see. You make a very good point and I would concur on many of the finer points of your statement. However I do not recall myself making the statement that the United States lost its war in Vietnam due to losing numerous battles and men. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
@GeneralMcCudden The Art of War version translated by John Mineford or the Art of War version translated by Thomas Cleary. I happen to be in possession of both, along with Carl von Clausewitz's On War, though i haven't had a chance to read it, university is a big time commitment you know? I don't really understand the point you are trying to get across with your comment however because I don't know the context of your response. Do enlighten me please.
Indian pilots are highly trained professionals, standards of training has been rated high by many. They are disciplined and dedicated force of professionals and any flyer commenting negative about the other flyer is sure against the spirit of aviators. You can hunt & shoot the other in the game but respect should never leave a warrior.Yes Americans do have a misgiving, they do not see beyond their own nose. Not true for many I knew but quite true for some I met.Let us talk and not sulk
Think before you make a judgment, Russian designer Igor Sikorsky was the one to start rotary wing application in America, You cannot denounce a school whose alumni you respect.
This is not exactly a debriefing session of a combat command, this is more likely a Offcr Mess antics. Fine to talk about flying but about design I think he is not qualified enough to evaluate ones who did design it. Russian Aircraft designing is of high standards. MiG 29 when showed Tail Slide and Forward recovery after above 90 Deg pitch, we did watch with awe. Not because it was akin to Newton being proved wrong but because of excellent application of theory and fine tuning it.
This guy really knows his stuff, the only thing that I found particularly strange is how overweight he looks. (No disrespect to him, but he looks a little fat). I was under the impression that fighter pilots were some of the fittest people in the armed services. I guess, he has given me some hope.:)But he is right, there is no way a SuMKI can take on the F-22. The only way a SuMkI could take on a F-22 is with a lot of S-400 ground support
He knows his stuff.. and calls a spade a spade.. nothing wrong about that.. and about his saying the IAF cannot be a part of the coalition, listen again to what he say's about PAK-AF.. he's basically saying that the US does not want to take sides in that area. which is commonsense.
Allright i'm Indian, and I don't think the video was disrespectfu. Sure his language wasn't 'diplomatic', but guess what, he isn't a diplomat.
That said, criticism is a great thing if you are secure and can analyze it and learn from it. Nobodies perfect, not the Yanks, not the Indians, and there are always aspects that can be bettered.
this guy is mearly saying shut up, stop being cocky and learn from your mistakes. as far as the indians on here posting negitvie comments on this, all i have to say is if you dont like it, stay out of the skys,
I am an Indian and not a miltary man. So I can't comment on the merits or demerits of what the Col. said. But like the other Indians here, I too think that its better to listen to criticism - even if its unfair - than to kid oneself into believing that nothing's amiss. After all, its better to bleed in training than in war.
I am an Indian, and I feel this was a constructive criticism. But, I thought he was hiding the facts about the mistakes made by the US, which is good for morale but just doesn't seem right.
Wat an idiot, who doesn wanna look reality cos it looks bad on his side!! This is jus like kids callin everything thing else bad except for theirs!!! But maybe its a morale booster for their forces cos they got their asses kicked when ever they came to India, as he accept with all the whining about the pilots!
I agree with pogularocky. The objective of Red Flag is not to win; really there is nothing to win. Red Flag is designed, and was conceived, as a means to train pilots with the skills necessary to survive and excel in combat under wartime conditions. The only morale involved is instilling in pilots confidence in the art of war. The only way you can lose at Red Flag is by trying to win, because you will end up compromising the mission, fighting alone, by yourself, killing your friends.
pogularocky makes a good point that it is constructive criticism. Sure he might crack some jokes, but all fighter pilots have a certain hubris to them, no exceptions. If it takes getting asses kicked in practice to hammer home a lesson, so be it. The more you bleed in peace, the less you bleed in war. It's repeated rhetoric but it's true. You have to make mistakes and learn lessons from individuals that have walked the walk if you want to improve.
A long time ago the USAF thought it was the best at everything, it had your mind set, samuelmacenroe. Then along came Vietnam, and the USAF got it's ass handed to it on many occasions and you know what? The guys that made mistakes couldn't return to tell the tale of what they had learned, because they were dead. So that's why Red Flag exists. It's better to lose a thousand exercises and learn something valuable, than to lose one war and achieve nothing.
USAF got it's ass handed to it on many occasions." Its widely considered that the US politicians lost Vietnam, not the military- USAF included. You're only 18 so I'll cut you some slack. The US military, USAF too -won every campaign they were commanded to win. Just so you know, the US lost in Vietnam, and not because of the military, but because of politicians who wanted to half-step an impossible theory.
You can be proud of the US Navy without resorting to that.
@shadownor. I'm talking about the tactical, not strategic, outcomes of the Vietnam War. By ass handed, I mean the poor kill to loss ratio of US pilots in dogfights due to the lack of dogfighting experience among pilots, and the the absence of any realistic combat training conducted by the USAF of the time, all of which made exercises like RED Flag invaluable today. I never said I wasn't proud of the US Navy, particularly when I was talking about the US Air Force, of which I am fiercely proud.
@XzenXzaneXzix, thousand pardons then, my failed understanding was that USAF and Naval Air Forces pulled off some extremely complex manuvers for Linebacker and Rolling Thunder Campains... and achieved them as planned and constrained.
The politicians erected an undeclared war, and limited targets by politics. The generals didnt get to choose the fools' errands that the pols gave them, they just did the best they could.
I don't get why people think he is disrespectful... I am an Indian and I feel that this lecture has to be circulated to all IAF pilots and officials... this kind of constructive criticism of the planes and pilots is very hard to get... if not for this guy's scrutiny our pilots could make those mistakes in real wars and lose it... this lecture is very very informative and constructive... this is how teachers/coaches should be...
He had nothing but praise for the Indians. The Americans were just happy to work with Su-30s which I doubt the Russians wanted to grant him. If he's happy, its because he loves his F-15s and wants to tell his guys they can live a round in a war... not vs. IAF, but others who may fly them against his guys.
Overall it was a good experience for all parties involved. There were mistakes made by all parties, and lesson's learned, which is the entire point. Next major meeting will see the lesson's learned put into practice, new mistakes made, and new lesson's to be learned by all.
Sick motherfucker."They only need to learn how to fly " What a stupid comment!!! HaHaHa, Bullshitt.He cant forget that Su-27 beat f-15 in secret exercise on american territory.
Because all that obscenely expensive American technology would be coming to your aide if India were ever attacked. I wish nothing but friendship and mutual respect between our countries for many, many years to come.
thats a very humbling rebut,i wish the same to u,but thr is distrust on both sides,if i may point out that US in all the 4 wars Pakistan fought with india had supported pak with an endless supply of American weapons. Even whn India was the democracy and pakistan a dictatorship,yet pak showed no loyalty till this day. Even whn Bangladesh was ethnically cleansed and India tried the stop them, the US helped Pakistan!
So these sort of immature response by the airmen dont help any1! Glad i meet u.
Lol.. sure, if u hear something that is hard to digest then u hv to live in denial.! US lost the vietnam war and most countries deserted US in Iraq. Sure i dont know only u know.
u poor thing feeling so bad that his favourite toy sucks in the rain.. lol..well i dont get upset over little scum bags like u.. lol.
The IAF rules, you guys thought we r some unprofessional AF.. Every time the americans come for a red flag they either lost 2-1 or 1-1..Loud mouth kid country.
i find it hard to imagine a IAF aircraft having a Us fighter in its inventory all are too costly and lets face it most of them are outdated.. prob may jus be Indian navy may jus go in for F35 to replace harrier's if on offer that is..
It is pretty impressive for India to have jointly developed a fighter with Russia that sits just above the vaunted F-15s and F-16s. Imagine the next few planes that are in development now and what they will bring once released. F22 needs to stay on the ball because the heat is on.
I agree it's very impressive. I feel it should also be mentioned that though the F22, F35 and Su MKI 30 are all new and very capable aircraft, it would be naive to think that either side is showing their full hand at this point in time. The very best aircraft technology is still highly top secret and you'll not know any different until 15-20 years from now. The F22, F35 and Su MKI 30 are all in the public eye so to speak now - in other words they are old news. The real good stuff is still hidden
I see a bunch of fanboys over reacting to this big time !! He is pointing out TACTICAL flaws or shortcommings in the young MKI pilots and then comparing them to the same or similar short commings with young F-22 pilots!! The MKI is not a perfect jet and neither is any in the USAF , he is in not the best way stating how Paper Superiority can be negated by Tactics (either bad tactics on the part of the superior aircraft , or good tactics at the inferior aircraft) !!
Totally shameful.. i wish that the Americans were a lil more considerate before passing such negative criticism considering the fact that they were the host.. Hope and pray that they realize that a civilized world DOES exist beyond NY & L.A. (FYI i think the US naval aviators are far superior to their USAF counter parts) Anyhow hopefully both the nations come out with some positives from this exercises!
He was never disrespectful to the Indians. In fact, he commemorated them for being very professional, and for adhering to the rules. He only pointed out the shortcomings of the Su-30MKI.
I'm not an air force guy, but this officer's comments I would say are fair, and well balanced with the exception the he is somewhat misinformed with some of the SU-30MKI's technical data. For one, the MKI's engines are not "Tumanski". They're AL-31FPs. He also states that the TVC nozzles move in a "V" pattern. Not true either! They can be deflected +-15 degrees vertically, and move more like a "corkscrew". Non the less, the IAF was instructed to downplay the capabilities of the MKI at Red Flag.
Thats easy the whiny indians went home roundly defeated and started making up exscuses for why they lost. But actually they don't believe they did according to indian news they won! Now who am i going to believe. The sad fact is the su 30 is just a crappy su 27 they added thrust vectoring too.
offensive? hell no!!! indian media is faous for misinterpretation and misrerepresentation for TRPs the col knows his business and is talkin senese, in fact his comments on indian pilots is flattering and much appreciated.
true very true..they just want to make news out of it and in my views this guy was very rational and i appreciate it, indian media has lost its trust and quality, i have stopped watching indian news
The first 1 minute sums up the video. Why are you India fanboys so upset? Nothing insulting was said. If you want to be a "worldpower" you better get used to have your ego bruised.
So basically he said that all planes are good. Everything got a strenght and weakness. And that he scares an upgraded Mig-21 Bison LIKE SHIT. Exactly what i believe. It takes years and years to get the best out of a plane. F35 sux. USA knows it. Raptor is good enough but needs upgrades. Indian pilots coudnt use their planes properly. So basically a Sukhoi 30 is better than a F16 and F15 like he said and can match Raptor if they knew how to fly it. Useful info.
I noted he mention what type of equipment the participants were using. What?, he's not allow to identify planes by their names now? He's just stating the facts idiot.
Ha Ha...if India isn't a part of the collation you can kiss your NATO ass goodbye. The US would be isolated and find itself fighting the top three most powerful nations in the world... and half the world. Nato together doesn't amount to 1/6 of the world...China and India each form 1/6 th of the world population. who's gonna save your sorry ass from the Chinese.Our data links are compatible with the Russian and the Chinese so too bad for you. It should be more of a worry for you than us
top 3 nation..who..russia,china n india..come on..nato av best,more advance n largest navies in world mate,largest n most advance air force in world too,those 3 nations may outnumber nato in numbers of land units..but nato infantries are better trained,better equip n av best tanks in world eh..the challenger,abrams n leopards..nato also av best attack subs,attack helicopter n so on..all russia,china n india got is numbers n thats it..o nato av best spec forces too..sas,seals,sbs,green berets..
war is about combine arms tactics mate..yanks av air n naval superiority over russia n china idiot..if yanks take air n sea..yanks gonna av a turkey shoot for the 1 million conscript russia n chinese infantry..n if china dares to invade usa..LOL..china invasion fleet will probly be sunk in pacific ocean wit a sorry navy they got n if it dares to invade from air..they be blown out over japan coz china air force is outdated n is not advance like the yanks..so yanks no worry about you too..
oh u mention datalink..LOL..which 1..the advance datalink use by nato..or the outdated 1 use by russia n china..dude..most powerful nations,hahahaha..nato is more advance than russia n china,nato militaries military budget outperforms india,china n russia combine..hell,the yanks alone 500 billion military budget outrank china 80-120 billion,russia 50 billion n india 40 bill..if add those nation up..still doesnt come close to the yanks..n quess what yanks is only 1 member o nato innit..
Since when did military budgets start to translate into strength of an army ? 80% of your military budget goes behind paying salaries. An Indian and Chinese soldier gets paid 1/ 10 of what his counterpart in the US army gets paid Do you see where the discrepancies are happening ? India and China alone, each have a which is larger army then the US (taking reserves into account)
We are 1.2 billion people dude, china another 1.3 billion you really think you can win a war with either one of them ?
U got me mixed up dude.. I'm from texas not Krapistan.. I was just taking up for the USAF from all of these american haters.. I have nothing but respect for India and its millitay.. I'll tell you that out of the Hordes of immigrants coming to this country that Indians are the best for it..
Yes the F-15 is getting long in the tooth but the IAF REFUSED to let the 18 F-15C's with APG-77 Radars compete. WHy is that? The USAF would dominate any airforce in the world in real world combat anyone who says different is an IDIOT. So laugh it up with your PRETEND dogfights , because we all know who big daddy is
Yeah this colonel is a total air head. If you really wanted to prove a point. You should have brought those over priced 180 million dollar raptors into this Red flag. But you didn't and why?
Instead you made lame excuses ,and talked total garbage about a plane the Sukhoi MKI 30 that not only outperformed your F15 and F16 fighters ;it also won 90 percent of its dog fight engagements. Bravo! You get the loser of the year award dufus.
Actualy you may want to do some more research on that. The only time the IAF won any mock fights against us was in one set of scenarios where they outnumbered us 12 to 4! we also were not alowed to use our long range avionics and radar. It was not fair at all. But when the numbers were equal, we dominated. They managed to shoot down a couple planes but they didn't actualy win any of the mock dog fights against the f-15s at red flag 2008.
Ok then i stand corrected. I"m getting all kinds of mixed information on this so i don't know which is the accurate ones. The indian sites are like saying they won 90 percent of there mock dogfight engagments and did way better then the americans in the senerios.
The other side just says the Indians did well but they still didn't beat the f15 and f16 in mock dogfight engagments.
Do you have any links or sites or any kind of information from the american side. Because most of the research is pulling up on Indian sites and they are claiming a one sided victory.
I will always love the F15 and F16. Its a shame that the F16 Vista and F15 Active wasn't put into active service. Imagine how awesome it would be to see a thrust vectored F15 and F16 in active service and the airshows would just be incredible.
Ya it gets kinda confusing. The indians owned us in a set of dog fights in which they outnumbered us 12 to 4. They also did very well in the ground attack scenarios. But when the dogfights were in equal numbers, the americans won. This pilot here was on the red force side of the scenarios. Red force always looses because they are always outnumbered. This pilot is refering to one set of dogfights in which everything was on equal terms. Thats when they won. Thats what he is talking about.
I got a big question. How did the F16 and F15 out maneuver the Sukhoi when they went into the post stall thrust vector thing they use alot in dog fighting engagements.
I guess i'd like to know the technique in beating a plane with this much maneuverablity.
the Su 30 is indeed a wonderful aircraft. But it has many fatal flaws. (i.e. enourmos radar cross section and huge drag) plus, most f-15 pilots are among the best and most experienced in the world. Many of them have real kills from both gulf wars. (plus they practice against raptors) Every plane has weeknesses. It just takes a good pilot to exploit them.
On another note. Heres how red flag works: Red team is all american and hopelessly out-numbered. Blue team is multi-national (some american) and out-numbers the red team 3 to 1. The indians (on blue team) acomplished their goals against the hopeless red team and acted like it was some sort of HUGE victory. In reality, the red team is supposed to loose. They have inferior data-links and numbers. Yes the indians won 90% of their ingagements. But so did the americans, british, and germans.
Because the Eagle is an energy fighter in other words the Eagle wont lower its speed and get into a high AOA low energy dogfight were the SU is strongest. The SU & Eagle can turn at roughly the same DPS in the high speed envelope.
the f16 and f15 cant out maneuver in those situation, what the pilots like to do is come into a merge at high speed and pull a scissors, like this guy said, the su pilot will lose if he gets too aggressive and pulls to hard to get behind you, then as you come out of scissors you can pull up and get behind or on top of him as he enters a stall/post stall maneuvering
In your opinion is thrust vectoring over rated? All of the russian sukhoi sites brag about this advantage against western fighters. At this 2008 red flag exercise ,it seems over rated against a skilled western veteran pilot ,that knows how to get an advantage ,by keeping it fast instead of slow which would give the Sukhoi the advantage. What real advantage ;besides doing cool tricks at air shows ,does thrust vector actually have in a real dogfight ?
well one, gives you much better control at high aoa, what its really for is for you to point the nose temporarily and engage, the reality is the su series has a better maximum and sustained turn than everything but the f-22, so, once like he said they learn to deal with the aircraft, itll be very hard for u.s. aircraft to win in a dogfight. in my opinion tvc is not nearly as important as thrust, but it makes a difference. MOST important though is active radar, active radar missles, and jamming
Not actually. Did you even listen to the guy? The indians had problem flying their planes. For multiple reasons. He said that the Su-30MKI are better than the F16/15 . An advanced pilot with Su-30M will not lose , but gain , altituted on TV - manuvers. Overall. Every plane can beat every plane if used correctly. So we come down to "Best pilot wins". Having a good planes will you an advantage but training and experiance is what makes a plane deadly.
I've seen little kids make excuses on the playground after getting their asses whooped in a fight or after losing a baseball game, but I've never seen an adult do it; until I saw this video.I believe it was General Hornburg that said the following to USA Today:
"General Hal M. Hornburg told USA Today that India's Sukhoi Su-30 MKI multi-role fighters have been successful against F-15 C/D Eagle aircraft in mock combat. In fact, the Indians won 90% of the mock combat missions." Source USA today.
read/post the rules from Cope kashsoldier.. I dont think it's excuse making . it's letting everyone know that those exercises played to the strengths of the Sukhoi and the IAF. not at all a reflection of what would happen if the USAF went head to head with the IAF. I think anyone with a brain knows that the few IAF that even get off the ground would be falling like "autumn leaves".
I never thought I'd see an American airforce pilot ever appear so insecure as this guy. Everyone knows that the US has got the best airforce in the world, so the Indian (or Russian) success in a few friendly exercises doesn't change the overall picture. That's why I am overjoyed to see this guy make so many excuses for losing to the Indians in Cope India.
LOL ure a stupid moron... LOL google : Su-30 MKI wiki and read the operational history LOL its powned most of the air forces it was mocked against LOL its more manuverable then the Eurofighter LOL USAF distanced itself from the opinions of that one single colonel and apologised to IAF LOL USAF lost in cope india 9-to-1 to Mig-21 LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Yes4humanrace.. Mock dogfights are littile more than conversation topics compared to the real world . Yes, the IAF had a great kill ratio against F-15's and 16's in controlled and MAKE BELIEVE rules..before you go off laughing about the USAF against the IAF , in a REAL battle against the IAF ,the USAF would send in a MASSIVE strike package and 75% of your precious SUKHOI's would be burning on the ground. The rest would be anniahlated by F-15''s and F-22 before they knew what hit them from BVR
faizhakim---you know what go fuck yourself---dont try and confuse us with science--- fact is this exercise was a terrible idea, let our boys get the fuck out of there and never have to go back. indians dont want to have anything to do with these loud vulgar people.
My own comment: Look there is nothing wrong with some boasting in privacy for instance if the USAF had shot down a few SU30 MKIs at Mountainhome then played it up but to call a 10:0 drubbing or perhaps 21:1 drubbing at the hands of Indians a "drilling their brains out" exercise is just plain wrong. Perhaps the Colonel is telling the truth. But Colonel Fornof talks with such demeaning bravado that a response was/is needed.
Considering the fact that the central sensor of the Sukhoi, its radar held up just fine in training mode despite the barrage of electronic jamming augurs well for the Indian Air Force.
As for its young pilots these are skills and experiences that they will take back to their squadrons experiences which will be passed on to a whole new set of pilots who will come into the next set of exercises that much wiser.
Perhaps the most encouraging part of these exercises comes from the fact that the Indian Air Forces young pilots learnt from their mistakes, analysed, appreciated and came back strong. Mistakes were not repeated. In fact the missions where the IAF did not fare well turned out to be immense learning experiences.
At the end of the exercises its more than clear that the IAFs Su-30s were more than a match for the variants of the jets participating at the Red Flag exercises.
Despite the hot weather conditions, the IAF had a 95 per cent mission launch ratio, far better than some of the participants.
And no one went into the exercises thinking the score line would be a perfect one in favour of the IAF. In fact the IAF went into these exercises with an open mind and with full admiration of the world beating range at Nellis with an unmatched system of calibrating engagement results.
So was the Indian Air Force invincible at Red Flag. In a word no. So yes, there were certainly days in which several Sukhoi jets were shot down. And there were others when they shot down many opposing jets. Ultimately though the success of the Indian Air Force at Red Flag lay in the fact that they could meet their mission objectives as well, if not better, than any other participant.
(they had problems understanding French accents as well) resulted in a lack of adequate controlling in situations. Whats more given the fact that the availability of AWACS was often low the bulk of fratricides took place on days when the AWACS jet was not deployed. Whats important to remember though is that US participants in these exercises had a similar number of fratricides despite being fully linked in with data links and the latest IFF systems.
In the debriefs that followed the exercises responsibility for the fratricides were always put on the fighter controllers not the pilots. Its also important to point that unlike in Mountain Home, none of the Indian Air Forces own fighter controllers were allowed to participate since there was classified equipment at Nellis used for monitoring the exercises. The lack of adequate controlling and the fact that Nellis fighter controllers often had problems understanding Indian accents
Neither was the Indian Air Force allowed to use chaff or flares, essential decoys to escape incoming missiles which had been fired by enemy jets. This was because the US FAA had visibility and pollution related concerns in the event that these were used in what is dense, busy air space in the Las Vegas region.
The Red Flag exercises themselves were based on large force engagements and did not see the Indian Air Force deploy thrust vectoring at all on any of the Sukhoi 30 jets not that
In fact, Indian Air Force Sukhois were not even linked to one another using their Russian built data links since American authorities had asked for specifics of the system before it was cleared to operate in US airspace. The IAF, quite naturally, felt that this would compromise a classified system onboard and decided to go on with the missions without the use of data links between the Sukhois.
By the time the Indian Air Force was ready for Red Flag, the contingent had successfully worked up using the crawl, walk, run principle. At Red Flag though, they found themselves at a substantial disadvantage vis a vis the other participants since they were not networked with AWACS and other platforms in the same manner in which USAF or other participating jets were.
In certain circumstances, this goes up substantially.
By the time the exercises at Mountain Home had matured the Indian Air Force had graduated to large formation exercises which featured dozens of jets in the sky. In one of these exercises the blue forces, of which the Indian Air Force was a part shot down more than 21 of the enemy jets. Most of these `kills have been credited to the Indian Air Force.
These one on one engagements featured USAF jets such as the F-15 and F-16 in close air engagements against the Su-30 MKI. The majority of the kills claimed in these engagements were granted to the Indian Air Force with the remainder of these being no-results. Indian Air Force Sukhois did use their famed thrust vectoring in these one on one engagements. Contrary to what may have been reported elsewherethe Su-30 has a rate of turn of more than 35 degrees when operating in the thrust vector mode.
In fact, none of the Sukhois were even close to being shot down in the 10 odd one on one sorties which were planned for the first two days of the exercises at Mountain Home.
Contrary to unsolicited remarks by certain serving US personnel not directly linked to day to day operations at the exercises the Indian Air Force and its Su-30s more than made a mark during their stint in the United States.
For starters not a single Sukhoi 30 MKI fighter was `shot down in close air combat missions at the Mountain Home air base.
This has a lot to do not just with the jet but also with the air force operating the fighter, a force which has made a mark as an innovative operator of fast jets.
The US Air Force the host of these exercises was singularly gracious in its appreciation for the Indian Air Force contingent which came into Red Flag having trained extensively for the exercises not only back home but also at the Mountain Home Air Force base in the US.
This was a reputation which was reinforced at Red Flag 2008, the world's most advanced air combat exercises where the Indian Air Force fielded a number of state of the art Sukhoi 30 MKI jets in addition to IL-76 transports and IL-78 mid air refuellers.
For other participants at the Red Flag exercises ... namely the South Korean Air Force, French and US Air Force ... the opportunity to train with a platform such as the Sukhoi 30 MKI was an opportunity which just couldn't be missed.
For the moment, I have decided not to do a television news report on this since I believe the contents of this post are too technical for a larger audience.
For starters ... and this cannot be stressed enough ... the Red Flag exercises were a brilliant learning experience for all the participants, not least of all the Indian Air Force which, over a period of time, has earned the reputation of being one of the world's finest operational air forces.
true.. but you know the westerners have this sense of superiority that even exists when it comes to China.. so I wud not be arguing with their ignorant asses for the sake of my pride (our pride) If and theres a big IF India Us ever have a face off we'll se then who kicks whose butts.. Im hoping we'll get PAKFA by the time that situation arises :)
LOL the F-22 and F-15 were both beaten into battle 4 times by American Airlines using only TV dinners... All the tech on Gods green Earth is pointless if theres a "dick holding the stick"
BuildYourMind 2 months ago
I dont't see any thing wrong in this, apart from bit surcasm.
I am indian, Indians should take it in positive and move on. There are real criticism when you are in Real war with Allias.
Indians has to move towards Electronic war fares...
Only Indians prefer twin seaters fighters.
Indians must have to improve on electornic avionics.
IAF, you are doing good, but at international lever, you need more Defence Satellites, Radars, Advanced Avionics.
In a war, time is everything, u dont get 1min
GK007001 3 months ago
@GK007001 True, when America first saw Migs the Russians had fitted cannons and shot the US out the sky. The Americans went into retrofit - lol. The newest tranche of Eurofighter has 360deg thrust vectoring and will cream an F-22. Your right that in war, time is everything and America holds back just as long as it can and is typically forced to fight once an opponent is brow beaten. US army vs a fresh 1939 Waffen SS division = total Fail. Yanks are good at fighting farmers and kids in sandals.
BuildYourMind 2 months ago
IAF’s has had good experience with small jets such as Gnat which earned the reputation of “Sabre Slayer” in the 1965 war with Pakistan. The under-development LCA Tejas promises to carry on this legacy when it replaces the Bison.
samurai1511 4 months ago
The small size (lower visual signature) and inherently small radar cross section coupled with modern avionics, radar, effective jammers, precision guided munitions and missiles (R-73, R-77) make Bison one of the best fighters in IAF after Su-30 and Mirage-2000
samurai1511 4 months ago
This is not the first time the MiG-21 Bison has been praised for successes during dissimilar air combat training (DACT) – even during previous USAF exercise and internal IAF exercises pilots are known to have scored ‘kills’ against more advanced adversaries.
samurai1511 4 months ago
Flanker come with lighter anti-FOD grills in the intakes as well as wheel fenders that catch FOD. IAF has precautions built into their SOPs – which may be overlooked in case of war or any such exigency. Since the deployment was far away from home base in the USA, with no spares support and related infrastructure it was well worth to observe strict adherence to SOPs instead to being stuck with a grounded aircraft!
samurai1511 4 months ago
Soviet era aircraft were designed to operate from poorly prepared airfields. For example; MiG-29 closes its intakes during taxi and take-off to avoid ingestion of FOD thrown up by the front wheels. In this state the engines are supplied air thru louvres located on upper surface of the leading edge. This design feature is at the cost of significant internal fuel capacity and hence has been eliminated in newer MiG-29 versions starting with the K/KUB variants.
samurai1511 4 months ago
Nor did U.S. pilots believe they faced only India's top guns. Instead, they said that at least in some units they faced a mix of experienced and relatively new Indian fighter and strike pilots.”. Moreover, the mix of experience needs to be examined for the USAF squadrons as well. The aggressor squadron at Nellis and the F-22 attracts the best in the USA.
samurai1511 4 months ago
The high mix of highly experienced pilots in Ex Cope India, if true, cannot be consistent across all sqns that were involved in the exercise. During Cope India, the 24 Sqn operating Su-30K/MK was first Flanker unit in the IAF and only one of two Su-30 units in the entire IAF at that time. To find a concentration of senior pilots in these squadrons will not be unexpected given that these units will be forging doctrines and tactics and building up a pool of pilots. Per article on Cope India here;
samurai1511 4 months ago
Su-30MKI is equipped with Saturn AL-31FP engines, not Turmansky as mentioned in the lecture
samurai1511 4 months ago
he IFF system used by IAF is not compatible with NATO standard, hence the need for verbal communication with the controller.
The aircraft were operating their radars on training mode since the actual signals with which the Bars radar operates are kept secret.
samurai1511 4 months ago
Su-30MKI is equipped with its own data link which can share target information across multiple fighters. IAF is presently inducting A-50EI Phalcon AEW&C aircraft. Red Flag and other exercises before it have seen IAF working very closely with the AWACS crew of the other air force. Operational Data Link (ODL) will be provided to all fighters in the IAF over the coming years.
samurai1511 4 months ago
The Su-30MKI did not use the data link in the exercise unlike the other air forces. The reason being the HAL supplied system is not compatible with NATO data links – neither is the system required to be compatible with NATO. The speaker clearly mentions that the high fratricide ratio in the kills was because of this reason. While NATO air forces are designed to inter operate with each other and carry out joint missions, the IAF is not.
samurai1511 4 months ago
you have to rember that countries like india are just experiencing combat as of late, so this colonel is not presenting unbiased judgement - easy lack of validity from other persectives.. hes just a joke in front of a dinner or a drunk audience
derbj390 9 months ago
xaxa... this is fail 100%. Indian dont use Russian data link. Indian use BARS radar who have same functions as AWACS... so why can he not distinct friend to foe? I think this video is propaganda by USAF to make USA buy F-22, and nothing more. :P
bittemeinrammstein 10 months ago
its constructive criticism and hes lightening the mood with the manner hes speaking....idians need to chill...they should be grateful they were invited to Red flag
ahsiznit 10 months ago
F-22 supposedly the next gen version of F-16 was the worst fighter ever made and still US has the guts to boast that its better than the MKI!
Check out video
KaoYz90giTk
goodwise24 1 year ago
@goodwise24 why is the f-16 the worst fighter ever made?
zulok1337 9 months ago
@zulok1337 I said F-22 was the worst fighter ever made. Don't believe it? v=27qdB1D0s9M /F-16 was good. But its outdated now
goodwise24 9 months ago
@goodwise24 ROFL, that's old and inaccurate news. Watch this counter: v=OowCBVh8-_0
+ The "old" F-16 that you mentioned beat out Russia's Mig 35 in MMRCA.
asusucks 6 months ago
And, in response to your other video about the F-22 being "exposed", just yet another lie created by liberal tree huggers here in the US that anti-US people like youself like to cite. Watch this counter for the truth; v=RgiThPPnIcY
The truth is that F-22's w/ rookie pilots have been dominating in exercises. It is racking up unheard of kill records. Other fighter haven't had a clue that it's in the area & it has gotten easy mock kills both at BVR and WVR. MKI is shit, even beaten by old f15s
asusucks 6 months ago
@asusucks
The MiG was disqualified because IAF thought its too risky to depend on one supplier for all arms. The F-22 project was ended in 2009 and USAF will place no further orders. Read Wiki amigo. I rest my case
goodwise24 6 months ago
@goodwise24 The F-22 is still in production until the end of the year. Its production was cut due to economic issues not performance. This has happened to early every defense program across the world so it’s not unique to the F22.
The Mig 35 lost because it sucked. It’s bleed, instant, and sustained turn rates, and avionics was inferior to all competitors. Google “For heaven's sake, don't buy Russian MiG-35”
asusucks 6 months ago
F-22 supposedly the next gen version of F-16 was the worst fighter ever made and still US has the guts to boast that its better than the MKI!
Check out video
v=KaoYz90giTk
goodwise24 1 year ago
racist ass
at least IAF dont bomb innocent ppl for oil
bhuptube 1 year ago
American fat pilot trademark.
Vykuk123 1 year ago
@Vykuk123 Yet another stupid-ass remark from the retard himself. Go away troll.
asusucks 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Construcitve criticism?!! Sure! Were IAF pilots and chiefs attending that lecture??!!
Let him do that for the American troops in Iraq & Afghanistan. They need all the the help in the real combat world. Their troops would be much better off if they kept away from their video games and Hollywood movies like Rambo, etc.
rajnikantsharma 1 year ago
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hmmm ... I am an Indian. Don't find this negative. He is being a tough teacher, and that's welcome.
rohitnig81 1 year ago
hmmm ... I am an Indian. Don't find this negative. He is being a tough teacher, and that's welcome.
rohitnig81 1 year ago
4:41 gets me every time though lol
XzenXzaneXzix 1 year ago
@GeneralMcCudden Ah I see. You make a very good point and I would concur on many of the finer points of your statement. However I do not recall myself making the statement that the United States lost its war in Vietnam due to losing numerous battles and men. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
XzenXzaneXzix 1 year ago
@GeneralMcCudden The Art of War version translated by John Mineford or the Art of War version translated by Thomas Cleary. I happen to be in possession of both, along with Carl von Clausewitz's On War, though i haven't had a chance to read it, university is a big time commitment you know? I don't really understand the point you are trying to get across with your comment however because I don't know the context of your response. Do enlighten me please.
XzenXzaneXzix 1 year ago
Indian pilots are highly trained professionals, standards of training has been rated high by many. They are disciplined and dedicated force of professionals and any flyer commenting negative about the other flyer is sure against the spirit of aviators. You can hunt & shoot the other in the game but respect should never leave a warrior.Yes Americans do have a misgiving, they do not see beyond their own nose. Not true for many I knew but quite true for some I met.Let us talk and not sulk
TheFlamingspears 1 year ago
Think before you make a judgment, Russian designer Igor Sikorsky was the one to start rotary wing application in America, You cannot denounce a school whose alumni you respect.
TheFlamingspears 1 year ago
This is not exactly a debriefing session of a combat command, this is more likely a Offcr Mess antics. Fine to talk about flying but about design I think he is not qualified enough to evaluate ones who did design it. Russian Aircraft designing is of high standards. MiG 29 when showed Tail Slide and Forward recovery after above 90 Deg pitch, we did watch with awe. Not because it was akin to Newton being proved wrong but because of excellent application of theory and fine tuning it.
TheFlamingspears 1 year ago
This guy really knows his stuff, the only thing that I found particularly strange is how overweight he looks. (No disrespect to him, but he looks a little fat). I was under the impression that fighter pilots were some of the fittest people in the armed services. I guess, he has given me some hope.:)But he is right, there is no way a SuMKI can take on the F-22. The only way a SuMkI could take on a F-22 is with a lot of S-400 ground support
madrid23 1 year ago
He knows his stuff.. and calls a spade a spade.. nothing wrong about that.. and about his saying the IAF cannot be a part of the coalition, listen again to what he say's about PAK-AF.. he's basically saying that the US does not want to take sides in that area. which is commonsense.
arjjin 1 year ago
He wasn't too keen on the F35! Anyone know why? What's wrong with it?
ianrkav 1 year ago
Allright i'm Indian, and I don't think the video was disrespectfu. Sure his language wasn't 'diplomatic', but guess what, he isn't a diplomat.
That said, criticism is a great thing if you are secure and can analyze it and learn from it. Nobodies perfect, not the Yanks, not the Indians, and there are always aspects that can be bettered.
MrPawnmeister 1 year ago
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MrPawnmeister 1 year ago
this guy is mearly saying shut up, stop being cocky and learn from your mistakes. as far as the indians on here posting negitvie comments on this, all i have to say is if you dont like it, stay out of the skys,
whomikewhat 1 year ago
I am an Indian and not a miltary man. So I can't comment on the merits or demerits of what the Col. said. But like the other Indians here, I too think that its better to listen to criticism - even if its unfair - than to kid oneself into believing that nothing's amiss. After all, its better to bleed in training than in war.
abhinavc 1 year ago
Holy shit, flamewar in here
IconOfSin24148 1 year ago
I am an Indian, and I feel this was a constructive criticism. But, I thought he was hiding the facts about the mistakes made by the US, which is good for morale but just doesn't seem right.
varvijviju 1 year ago
lol "Indians killed a lot of friendly's" ya should watch your friendly fire too.
aldeo666 1 year ago
Wat an idiot, who doesn wanna look reality cos it looks bad on his side!! This is jus like kids callin everything thing else bad except for theirs!!! But maybe its a morale booster for their forces cos they got their asses kicked when ever they came to India, as he accept with all the whining about the pilots!
samuelmacenroe 2 years ago
I agree with pogularocky. The objective of Red Flag is not to win; really there is nothing to win. Red Flag is designed, and was conceived, as a means to train pilots with the skills necessary to survive and excel in combat under wartime conditions. The only morale involved is instilling in pilots confidence in the art of war. The only way you can lose at Red Flag is by trying to win, because you will end up compromising the mission, fighting alone, by yourself, killing your friends.
XzenXzaneXzix 1 year ago
pogularocky makes a good point that it is constructive criticism. Sure he might crack some jokes, but all fighter pilots have a certain hubris to them, no exceptions. If it takes getting asses kicked in practice to hammer home a lesson, so be it. The more you bleed in peace, the less you bleed in war. It's repeated rhetoric but it's true. You have to make mistakes and learn lessons from individuals that have walked the walk if you want to improve.
XzenXzaneXzix 1 year ago
A long time ago the USAF thought it was the best at everything, it had your mind set, samuelmacenroe. Then along came Vietnam, and the USAF got it's ass handed to it on many occasions and you know what? The guys that made mistakes couldn't return to tell the tale of what they had learned, because they were dead. So that's why Red Flag exists. It's better to lose a thousand exercises and learn something valuable, than to lose one war and achieve nothing.
XzenXzaneXzix 1 year ago
USAF got it's ass handed to it on many occasions." Its widely considered that the US politicians lost Vietnam, not the military- USAF included. You're only 18 so I'll cut you some slack. The US military, USAF too -won every campaign they were commanded to win. Just so you know, the US lost in Vietnam, and not because of the military, but because of politicians who wanted to half-step an impossible theory.
You can be proud of the US Navy without resorting to that.
shadownor 1 year ago
@shadownor. I'm talking about the tactical, not strategic, outcomes of the Vietnam War. By ass handed, I mean the poor kill to loss ratio of US pilots in dogfights due to the lack of dogfighting experience among pilots, and the the absence of any realistic combat training conducted by the USAF of the time, all of which made exercises like RED Flag invaluable today. I never said I wasn't proud of the US Navy, particularly when I was talking about the US Air Force, of which I am fiercely proud.
XzenXzaneXzix 1 year ago
@XzenXzaneXzix
XzenXzaneXzix 1 year ago
@XzenXzaneXzix, thousand pardons then, my failed understanding was that USAF and Naval Air Forces pulled off some extremely complex manuvers for Linebacker and Rolling Thunder Campains... and achieved them as planned and constrained.
The politicians erected an undeclared war, and limited targets by politics. The generals didnt get to choose the fools' errands that the pols gave them, they just did the best they could.
shadownor 1 year ago
@shadownor US politicians had very little to do with the lack of basic combat aerial maneuvering skills among USAF fighter pilots.
XzenXzaneXzix 1 year ago
Informative lecture.
A2Kaid 2 years ago
I thought the Colonel was respectful in what he thought the Indians did right and said a few times they were pros.
I doubt that the Indians would make the same mistakes they made here again, after all he said it was the USAF that had to come up to speed first.
This officer is a pro and leading people to smart motivation just like any soccer coach would.
You can hate us if you want, but if you think this man was disrespectful, then stop saying you understand us... you don't.
joefitzjoefitz 2 years ago 2
I don't get why people think he is disrespectful... I am an Indian and I feel that this lecture has to be circulated to all IAF pilots and officials... this kind of constructive criticism of the planes and pilots is very hard to get... if not for this guy's scrutiny our pilots could make those mistakes in real wars and lose it... this lecture is very very informative and constructive... this is how teachers/coaches should be...
pogularocky 2 years ago 24
I agree with you Pogularocky,
He had nothing but praise for the Indians. The Americans were just happy to work with Su-30s which I doubt the Russians wanted to grant him. If he's happy, its because he loves his F-15s and wants to tell his guys they can live a round in a war... not vs. IAF, but others who may fly them against his guys.
joefitzjoefitz 2 years ago
lol.. yeah right.. what wud it take to get ur head out of ur ass?
mrbillkills 2 years ago
bisons kicks ass even UR pilot said so.. So who has the old western style of nationalism going now huh
mrbillkills 2 years ago
Overall it was a good experience for all parties involved. There were mistakes made by all parties, and lesson's learned, which is the entire point. Next major meeting will see the lesson's learned put into practice, new mistakes made, and new lesson's to be learned by all.
Overall a very good job by everyone.
tzebra 2 years ago
Sick motherfucker."They only need to learn how to fly " What a stupid comment!!! HaHaHa, Bullshitt.He cant forget that Su-27 beat f-15 in secret exercise on american territory.
5891Pop 2 years ago
He's saying the Rafales were electronically investigating US air defenses instead of committing to missions.
y0ssar1an 2 years ago 2
Tell me why we are friends with the US?!!!
KarthikSoun 2 years ago
Because all that obscenely expensive American technology would be coming to your aide if India were ever attacked. I wish nothing but friendship and mutual respect between our countries for many, many years to come.
y0ssar1an 2 years ago 2
thats a very humbling rebut,i wish the same to u,but thr is distrust on both sides,if i may point out that US in all the 4 wars Pakistan fought with india had supported pak with an endless supply of American weapons. Even whn India was the democracy and pakistan a dictatorship,yet pak showed no loyalty till this day. Even whn Bangladesh was ethnically cleansed and India tried the stop them, the US helped Pakistan!
So these sort of immature response by the airmen dont help any1! Glad i meet u.
KarthikSoun 2 years ago
You morons aligned yourself with Comunist Russia, and purchase their equipment. What else would you expect.
Stupid anology.
F22Ownage 2 years ago
Peole always gather around the best.
F22Ownage 2 years ago
Is that why no one is gathering around the US in iraq or Afghanistan or Vietnam? ur poor thing.. lol..
KarthikSoun 2 years ago
LMOA...
Read up on each othe those wars and you would realize many countries fought alingside the US.
Man, your pretty stupid. Perhaps you should research you answers before replying.
F22Ownage 2 years ago
Lol.. sure, if u hear something that is hard to digest then u hv to live in denial.! US lost the vietnam war and most countries deserted US in Iraq. Sure i dont know only u know.
KarthikSoun 2 years ago
Hey habib,
LMAO! I think someone is a little upset that we pretty much dominated the IAF best planes/pilots.
Over 40 countries are still envolved in the conflict.
Now go take a shower you stinky doon-coon. LMAO!
F22Ownage 2 years ago
wats an habib.. ur jebus the jew worshiper? lol
u poor thing feeling so bad that his favourite toy sucks in the rain.. lol..well i dont get upset over little scum bags like u.. lol.
The IAF rules, you guys thought we r some unprofessional AF.. Every time the americans come for a red flag they either lost 2-1 or 1-1..Loud mouth kid country.
Again wats a Doon-coon u snow cracker.. LMAO..!
KarthikSoun 2 years ago
he is calling the french chickens in other words.. according to him with out BVR french cant fight.. they did not commit to any mergs
babukania 2 years ago
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babukania 2 years ago
What did he said on Rafale at 0:55? I can't understand anything. His accent is too strong for my ears :)
InfameRAP 2 years ago
i find it hard to imagine a IAF aircraft having a Us fighter in its inventory all are too costly and lets face it most of them are outdated.. prob may jus be Indian navy may jus go in for F35 to replace harrier's if on offer that is..
babukania 2 years ago
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babukania 2 years ago
It is pretty impressive for India to have jointly developed a fighter with Russia that sits just above the vaunted F-15s and F-16s. Imagine the next few planes that are in development now and what they will bring once released. F22 needs to stay on the ball because the heat is on.
Maxfli82 2 years ago 4
I agree it's very impressive. I feel it should also be mentioned that though the F22, F35 and Su MKI 30 are all new and very capable aircraft, it would be naive to think that either side is showing their full hand at this point in time. The very best aircraft technology is still highly top secret and you'll not know any different until 15-20 years from now. The F22, F35 and Su MKI 30 are all in the public eye so to speak now - in other words they are old news. The real good stuff is still hidden
chaosdivine69 2 years ago
Great example is the Blackswift fighter supposedly coming into service in a few years.
F22Ownage 2 years ago
Hey thanks for the heads up on Blackswift. I had no idea about this...
chaosdivine69 2 years ago
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babukania 2 years ago
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babukania 2 years ago
I see a bunch of fanboys over reacting to this big time !! He is pointing out TACTICAL flaws or shortcommings in the young MKI pilots and then comparing them to the same or similar short commings with young F-22 pilots!! The MKI is not a perfect jet and neither is any in the USAF , he is in not the best way stating how Paper Superiority can be negated by Tactics (either bad tactics on the part of the superior aircraft , or good tactics at the inferior aircraft) !!
sikandinc 2 years ago
Totally shameful.. i wish that the Americans were a lil more considerate before passing such negative criticism considering the fact that they were the host.. Hope and pray that they realize that a civilized world DOES exist beyond NY & L.A. (FYI i think the US naval aviators are far superior to their USAF counter parts) Anyhow hopefully both the nations come out with some positives from this exercises!
babukania 2 years ago
He was never disrespectful to the Indians. In fact, he commemorated them for being very professional, and for adhering to the rules. He only pointed out the shortcomings of the Su-30MKI.
ohainoob 2 years ago
Quit crying. If you cant take the heat, get out of the fire.
johnnyauburn 2 years ago
Wait till PAKFA comes out .. lets c how F22 faces up with a true 5 generation breed.. from Indo-Russian stable!!
babukania 2 years ago
i thought pakfa stands for pakistan
hairybeast101 2 years ago
hahaha dude u should not even be here commenting on aircrafts !! y dont u google it and c what it stand for !
babukania 2 years ago
More sabre rattling from countries with an inferiority complex
johnnyauburn 2 years ago
He just want indians to buy 126 f-16 or f-18.Bloody pimp.
2010aditya 2 years ago
He just want indians to buy 126 f-16 or f-18.Bloody pimp.
2010aditya 2 years ago
as a layman i gotta say this isnt that bad
he seems a bit biased in that India was using Russian tech and only really compliments their Isreali stuff, but thats typical for an American
what he's saying may or may not b true, but the Indians should take this with a grain of salt
supersan16 2 years ago
Mig 21 bison owns all! awesome speech.
Lumotaku 2 years ago
If "Bison owns all" is what you got out of this speech you need to listen to it again and pay attention next time.
dogsbd 2 years ago
No you
Lumotaku 2 years ago
I'm not an air force guy, but this officer's comments I would say are fair, and well balanced with the exception the he is somewhat misinformed with some of the SU-30MKI's technical data. For one, the MKI's engines are not "Tumanski". They're AL-31FPs. He also states that the TVC nozzles move in a "V" pattern. Not true either! They can be deflected +-15 degrees vertically, and move more like a "corkscrew". Non the less, the IAF was instructed to downplay the capabilities of the MKI at Red Flag.
9873382134 2 years ago
Your really believe that what a tool
Lumotaku 2 years ago
and what do u believe you fool
9873382134 2 years ago
Thats easy the whiny indians went home roundly defeated and started making up exscuses for why they lost. But actually they don't believe they did according to indian news they won! Now who am i going to believe. The sad fact is the su 30 is just a crappy su 27 they added thrust vectoring too.
Lumotaku 2 years ago
Exactly.
There were attempts by British intelligence probably on service for the USAF, in snooping on the radar capabilities of the Su-30 MKI.
I distinctly remember a report on the IAF forcing their pilots to cripple many features of their plane's radars, because of this.
Anyways, with the three AWACs coming into the IAF later this year, the next exercise will be interesting.
PeterKuriakose 2 years ago 5
true man
these american think that only they can downgraded their capabilities.
9873382134 2 years ago
"He also states that the TVC nozzles move in a "V" pattern. Not true either!"
Wrong.
ausairpower. net/APA-Flanker. html
Scroll down to see a picture of the Su-30MKI's thrust vectoring nozzles. It's a rear shot, and shouldn't be hard to miss.
ohainoob 2 years ago 2
offensive? hell no!!! indian media is faous for misinterpretation and misrerepresentation for TRPs the col knows his business and is talkin senese, in fact his comments on indian pilots is flattering and much appreciated.
SHOBHITAUSHESH 2 years ago
true very true..they just want to make news out of it and in my views this guy was very rational and i appreciate it, indian media has lost its trust and quality, i have stopped watching indian news
greatgoindia2020 2 years ago
The first 1 minute sums up the video. Why are you India fanboys so upset? Nothing insulting was said. If you want to be a "worldpower" you better get used to have your ego bruised.
JasonKern 2 years ago
Ah...I see now...the Headlines Today piece on Indian news was grossly misrepresented. The Indian media has been way too dishonest with reporting this.
I remember reading that Indian Air Force kept their radars off for some reason and it is clear they had all the problems because of this.
Shame on those in Indian media who deliberately took the Colonel's remarks out of context and posted a specific portion.
abhish1313 2 years ago 2
I think he was giving constructive criticisms, he did point out a lot of positive things about the Indian AF.
Mikeybikey88 2 years ago
So basically he said that all planes are good. Everything got a strenght and weakness. And that he scares an upgraded Mig-21 Bison LIKE SHIT. Exactly what i believe. It takes years and years to get the best out of a plane. F35 sux. USA knows it. Raptor is good enough but needs upgrades. Indian pilots coudnt use their planes properly. So basically a Sukhoi 30 is better than a F16 and F15 like he said and can match Raptor if they knew how to fly it. Useful info.
ANimouz 2 years ago 3
Obvious psych-op. Nice way to try and sell more airplanes - note how he pimps for the Israelis as well as the U.S. manufacturers.
calripson 2 years ago
I noted he mention what type of equipment the participants were using. What?, he's not allow to identify planes by their names now? He's just stating the facts idiot.
L0C85 2 years ago
It did seem like a LockMart sales pitch, didn't it?
DesScorp 2 years ago 2
Ha Ha...if India isn't a part of the collation you can kiss your NATO ass goodbye. The US would be isolated and find itself fighting the top three most powerful nations in the world... and half the world. Nato together doesn't amount to 1/6 of the world...China and India each form 1/6 th of the world population. who's gonna save your sorry ass from the Chinese.Our data links are compatible with the Russian and the Chinese so too bad for you. It should be more of a worry for you than us
PrometheusHR 3 years ago
top 3 nation..who..russia,china n india..come on..nato av best,more advance n largest navies in world mate,largest n most advance air force in world too,those 3 nations may outnumber nato in numbers of land units..but nato infantries are better trained,better equip n av best tanks in world eh..the challenger,abrams n leopards..nato also av best attack subs,attack helicopter n so on..all russia,china n india got is numbers n thats it..o nato av best spec forces too..sas,seals,sbs,green berets..
fmoa 2 years ago
war is about combine arms tactics mate..yanks av air n naval superiority over russia n china idiot..if yanks take air n sea..yanks gonna av a turkey shoot for the 1 million conscript russia n chinese infantry..n if china dares to invade usa..LOL..china invasion fleet will probly be sunk in pacific ocean wit a sorry navy they got n if it dares to invade from air..they be blown out over japan coz china air force is outdated n is not advance like the yanks..so yanks no worry about you too..
fmoa 2 years ago
oh u mention datalink..LOL..which 1..the advance datalink use by nato..or the outdated 1 use by russia n china..dude..most powerful nations,hahahaha..nato is more advance than russia n china,nato militaries military budget outperforms india,china n russia combine..hell,the yanks alone 500 billion military budget outrank china 80-120 billion,russia 50 billion n india 40 bill..if add those nation up..still doesnt come close to the yanks..n quess what yanks is only 1 member o nato innit..
fmoa 2 years ago
Since when did military budgets start to translate into strength of an army ? 80% of your military budget goes behind paying salaries. An Indian and Chinese soldier gets paid 1/ 10 of what his counterpart in the US army gets paid Do you see where the discrepancies are happening ? India and China alone, each have a which is larger army then the US (taking reserves into account)
We are 1.2 billion people dude, china another 1.3 billion you really think you can win a war with either one of them ?
PrometheusHR 2 years ago
actually its more like 90%
PrometheusHR 2 years ago
How much did he took from lock heed martin to sell their pizzas.
amolsagar 3 years ago
Google.. "Cope India Myth is busted". and see what really happened.
1z1q 3 years ago 2
i know how biased u pakis are u will turn down anything thats indian. I think u forgot 1971 and the americans should not forget the korean air war.
amolsagar 3 years ago 2
U got me mixed up dude.. I'm from texas not Krapistan.. I was just taking up for the USAF from all of these american haters.. I have nothing but respect for India and its millitay.. I'll tell you that out of the Hordes of immigrants coming to this country that Indians are the best for it..
1z1q 3 years ago 2
Yes the F-15 is getting long in the tooth but the IAF REFUSED to let the 18 F-15C's with APG-77 Radars compete. WHy is that? The USAF would dominate any airforce in the world in real world combat anyone who says different is an IDIOT. So laugh it up with your PRETEND dogfights , because we all know who big daddy is
1z1q 3 years ago
Yeah this colonel is a total air head. If you really wanted to prove a point. You should have brought those over priced 180 million dollar raptors into this Red flag. But you didn't and why?
Instead you made lame excuses ,and talked total garbage about a plane the Sukhoi MKI 30 that not only outperformed your F15 and F16 fighters ;it also won 90 percent of its dog fight engagements. Bravo! You get the loser of the year award dufus.
laronfox 3 years ago
Actualy you may want to do some more research on that. The only time the IAF won any mock fights against us was in one set of scenarios where they outnumbered us 12 to 4! we also were not alowed to use our long range avionics and radar. It was not fair at all. But when the numbers were equal, we dominated. They managed to shoot down a couple planes but they didn't actualy win any of the mock dog fights against the f-15s at red flag 2008.
Chosenviper 3 years ago
Where you get this data? Sources?
SU-30MKI radars were limited used too.
Primorsky 3 years ago
Ok then i stand corrected. I"m getting all kinds of mixed information on this so i don't know which is the accurate ones. The indian sites are like saying they won 90 percent of there mock dogfight engagments and did way better then the americans in the senerios.
The other side just says the Indians did well but they still didn't beat the f15 and f16 in mock dogfight engagments.
laronfox 3 years ago
Do you have any links or sites or any kind of information from the american side. Because most of the research is pulling up on Indian sites and they are claiming a one sided victory.
I will always love the F15 and F16. Its a shame that the F16 Vista and F15 Active wasn't put into active service. Imagine how awesome it would be to see a thrust vectored F15 and F16 in active service and the airshows would just be incredible.
laronfox 3 years ago
Ya it gets kinda confusing. The indians owned us in a set of dog fights in which they outnumbered us 12 to 4. They also did very well in the ground attack scenarios. But when the dogfights were in equal numbers, the americans won. This pilot here was on the red force side of the scenarios. Red force always looses because they are always outnumbered. This pilot is refering to one set of dogfights in which everything was on equal terms. Thats when they won. Thats what he is talking about.
Chosenviper 3 years ago
Gotcha. Thanks for the info.
laronfox 3 years ago
I got a big question. How did the F16 and F15 out maneuver the Sukhoi when they went into the post stall thrust vector thing they use alot in dog fighting engagements.
I guess i'd like to know the technique in beating a plane with this much maneuverablity.
laronfox 3 years ago
the Su 30 is indeed a wonderful aircraft. But it has many fatal flaws. (i.e. enourmos radar cross section and huge drag) plus, most f-15 pilots are among the best and most experienced in the world. Many of them have real kills from both gulf wars. (plus they practice against raptors) Every plane has weeknesses. It just takes a good pilot to exploit them.
Chosenviper 3 years ago
On another note. Heres how red flag works: Red team is all american and hopelessly out-numbered. Blue team is multi-national (some american) and out-numbers the red team 3 to 1. The indians (on blue team) acomplished their goals against the hopeless red team and acted like it was some sort of HUGE victory. In reality, the red team is supposed to loose. They have inferior data-links and numbers. Yes the indians won 90% of their ingagements. But so did the americans, british, and germans.
Chosenviper 3 years ago
Awesome dude. Thanks for the good info. I finally got some answers to my questions.
laronfox 3 years ago
Because the Eagle is an energy fighter in other words the Eagle wont lower its speed and get into a high AOA low energy dogfight were the SU is strongest. The SU & Eagle can turn at roughly the same DPS in the high speed envelope.
HarryHiII 2 years ago
the f16 and f15 cant out maneuver in those situation, what the pilots like to do is come into a merge at high speed and pull a scissors, like this guy said, the su pilot will lose if he gets too aggressive and pulls to hard to get behind you, then as you come out of scissors you can pull up and get behind or on top of him as he enters a stall/post stall maneuvering
jdan007 2 years ago
In your opinion is thrust vectoring over rated? All of the russian sukhoi sites brag about this advantage against western fighters. At this 2008 red flag exercise ,it seems over rated against a skilled western veteran pilot ,that knows how to get an advantage ,by keeping it fast instead of slow which would give the Sukhoi the advantage. What real advantage ;besides doing cool tricks at air shows ,does thrust vector actually have in a real dogfight ?
laronfox 2 years ago
well one, gives you much better control at high aoa, what its really for is for you to point the nose temporarily and engage, the reality is the su series has a better maximum and sustained turn than everything but the f-22, so, once like he said they learn to deal with the aircraft, itll be very hard for u.s. aircraft to win in a dogfight. in my opinion tvc is not nearly as important as thrust, but it makes a difference. MOST important though is active radar, active radar missles, and jamming
jdan007 2 years ago
I have another question. In the red flag exercises are they allowed to use there radar jamming when in a dog fight?
laronfox 2 years ago
Not actually. Did you even listen to the guy? The indians had problem flying their planes. For multiple reasons. He said that the Su-30MKI are better than the F16/15 . An advanced pilot with Su-30M will not lose , but gain , altituted on TV - manuvers. Overall. Every plane can beat every plane if used correctly. So we come down to "Best pilot wins". Having a good planes will you an advantage but training and experiance is what makes a plane deadly.
ANimouz 2 years ago
You're right sorry i didn't listen to him all the way i was reading the comments first.
laronfox 2 years ago
I've seen little kids make excuses on the playground after getting their asses whooped in a fight or after losing a baseball game, but I've never seen an adult do it; until I saw this video.I believe it was General Hornburg that said the following to USA Today:
"General Hal M. Hornburg told USA Today that India's Sukhoi Su-30 MKI multi-role fighters have been successful against F-15 C/D Eagle aircraft in mock combat. In fact, the Indians won 90% of the mock combat missions." Source USA today.
kashsoldier 3 years ago 2
read/post the rules from Cope kashsoldier.. I dont think it's excuse making . it's letting everyone know that those exercises played to the strengths of the Sukhoi and the IAF. not at all a reflection of what would happen if the USAF went head to head with the IAF. I think anyone with a brain knows that the few IAF that even get off the ground would be falling like "autumn leaves".
1z1q 3 years ago
I never thought I'd see an American airforce pilot ever appear so insecure as this guy. Everyone knows that the US has got the best airforce in the world, so the Indian (or Russian) success in a few friendly exercises doesn't change the overall picture. That's why I am overjoyed to see this guy make so many excuses for losing to the Indians in Cope India.
kashsoldier 3 years ago
LOL the Su-30's got PWNED!
pjernst777 3 years ago
LOL ure a stupid moron... LOL google : Su-30 MKI wiki and read the operational history LOL its powned most of the air forces it was mocked against LOL its more manuverable then the Eurofighter LOL USAF distanced itself from the opinions of that one single colonel and apologised to IAF LOL USAF lost in cope india 9-to-1 to Mig-21 LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Yes4HumanRace 3 years ago
facepalm
pjernst777 3 years ago
Yes4humanrace.. Mock dogfights are littile more than conversation topics compared to the real world . Yes, the IAF had a great kill ratio against F-15's and 16's in controlled and MAKE BELIEVE rules..before you go off laughing about the USAF against the IAF , in a REAL battle against the IAF ,the USAF would send in a MASSIVE strike package and 75% of your precious SUKHOI's would be burning on the ground. The rest would be anniahlated by F-15''s and F-22 before they knew what hit them from BVR
1z1q 3 years ago
faizhakim---you know what go fuck yourself---dont try and confuse us with science--- fact is this exercise was a terrible idea, let our boys get the fuck out of there and never have to go back. indians dont want to have anything to do with these loud vulgar people.
jeet2765 3 years ago
Vishnu Som
Associate Editor and Senior Anchor
NDTV
My own comment: Look there is nothing wrong with some boasting in privacy for instance if the USAF had shot down a few SU30 MKIs at Mountainhome then played it up but to call a 10:0 drubbing or perhaps 21:1 drubbing at the hands of Indians a "drilling their brains out" exercise is just plain wrong. Perhaps the Colonel is telling the truth. But Colonel Fornof talks with such demeaning bravado that a response was/is needed.
faizhakim 3 years ago
Considering the fact that the central sensor of the Sukhoi, its radar held up just fine in training mode despite the barrage of electronic jamming augurs well for the Indian Air Force.
As for its young pilots these are skills and experiences that they will take back to their squadrons experiences which will be passed on to a whole new set of pilots who will come into the next set of exercises that much wiser.
faizhakim 3 years ago
Perhaps the most encouraging part of these exercises comes from the fact that the Indian Air Forces young pilots learnt from their mistakes, analysed, appreciated and came back strong. Mistakes were not repeated. In fact the missions where the IAF did not fare well turned out to be immense learning experiences.
At the end of the exercises its more than clear that the IAFs Su-30s were more than a match for the variants of the jets participating at the Red Flag exercises.
faizhakim 3 years ago 2
Despite the hot weather conditions, the IAF had a 95 per cent mission launch ratio, far better than some of the participants.
And no one went into the exercises thinking the score line would be a perfect one in favour of the IAF. In fact the IAF went into these exercises with an open mind and with full admiration of the world beating range at Nellis with an unmatched system of calibrating engagement results.
faizhakim 3 years ago
So was the Indian Air Force invincible at Red Flag. In a word no. So yes, there were certainly days in which several Sukhoi jets were shot down. And there were others when they shot down many opposing jets. Ultimately though the success of the Indian Air Force at Red Flag lay in the fact that they could meet their mission objectives as well, if not better, than any other participant.
faizhakim 3 years ago
(they had problems understanding French accents as well) resulted in a lack of adequate controlling in situations. Whats more given the fact that the availability of AWACS was often low the bulk of fratricides took place on days when the AWACS jet was not deployed. Whats important to remember though is that US participants in these exercises had a similar number of fratricides despite being fully linked in with data links and the latest IFF systems.
faizhakim 3 years ago
In the debriefs that followed the exercises responsibility for the fratricides were always put on the fighter controllers not the pilots. Its also important to point that unlike in Mountain Home, none of the Indian Air Forces own fighter controllers were allowed to participate since there was classified equipment at Nellis used for monitoring the exercises. The lack of adequate controlling and the fact that Nellis fighter controllers often had problems understanding Indian accents
faizhakim 3 years ago
this was required since the engagements were at long ranges.
Though it is true that there were 4-5 incidents of fratricides involving the Indian Air Force at Red Flag it is important to point out the following:
faizhakim 3 years ago
Neither was the Indian Air Force allowed to use chaff or flares, essential decoys to escape incoming missiles which had been fired by enemy jets. This was because the US FAA had visibility and pollution related concerns in the event that these were used in what is dense, busy air space in the Las Vegas region.
The Red Flag exercises themselves were based on large force engagements and did not see the Indian Air Force deploy thrust vectoring at all on any of the Sukhoi 30 jets not that
faizhakim 3 years ago 2
In fact, Indian Air Force Sukhois were not even linked to one another using their Russian built data links since American authorities had asked for specifics of the system before it was cleared to operate in US airspace. The IAF, quite naturally, felt that this would compromise a classified system onboard and decided to go on with the missions without the use of data links between the Sukhois.
faizhakim 3 years ago
By the time the Indian Air Force was ready for Red Flag, the contingent had successfully worked up using the crawl, walk, run principle. At Red Flag though, they found themselves at a substantial disadvantage vis a vis the other participants since they were not networked with AWACS and other platforms in the same manner in which USAF or other participating jets were.
faizhakim 3 years ago
In certain circumstances, this goes up substantially.
By the time the exercises at Mountain Home had matured the Indian Air Force had graduated to large formation exercises which featured dozens of jets in the sky. In one of these exercises the blue forces, of which the Indian Air Force was a part shot down more than 21 of the enemy jets. Most of these `kills have been credited to the Indian Air Force.
faizhakim 3 years ago
These one on one engagements featured USAF jets such as the F-15 and F-16 in close air engagements against the Su-30 MKI. The majority of the kills claimed in these engagements were granted to the Indian Air Force with the remainder of these being no-results. Indian Air Force Sukhois did use their famed thrust vectoring in these one on one engagements. Contrary to what may have been reported elsewherethe Su-30 has a rate of turn of more than 35 degrees when operating in the thrust vector mode.
faizhakim 3 years ago
In fact, none of the Sukhois were even close to being shot down in the 10 odd one on one sorties which were planned for the first two days of the exercises at Mountain Home.
faizhakim 3 years ago
Contrary to unsolicited remarks by certain serving US personnel not directly linked to day to day operations at the exercises the Indian Air Force and its Su-30s more than made a mark during their stint in the United States.
For starters not a single Sukhoi 30 MKI fighter was `shot down in close air combat missions at the Mountain Home air base.
faizhakim 3 years ago
This has a lot to do not just with the jet but also with the air force operating the fighter, a force which has made a mark as an innovative operator of fast jets.
The US Air Force the host of these exercises was singularly gracious in its appreciation for the Indian Air Force contingent which came into Red Flag having trained extensively for the exercises not only back home but also at the Mountain Home Air Force base in the US.
faizhakim 3 years ago
This was a reputation which was reinforced at Red Flag 2008, the world's most advanced air combat exercises where the Indian Air Force fielded a number of state of the art Sukhoi 30 MKI jets in addition to IL-76 transports and IL-78 mid air refuellers.
For other participants at the Red Flag exercises ... namely the South Korean Air Force, French and US Air Force ... the opportunity to train with a platform such as the Sukhoi 30 MKI was an opportunity which just couldn't be missed.
faizhakim 3 years ago
For the moment, I have decided not to do a television news report on this since I believe the contents of this post are too technical for a larger audience.
For starters ... and this cannot be stressed enough ... the Red Flag exercises were a brilliant learning experience for all the participants, not least of all the Indian Air Force which, over a period of time, has earned the reputation of being one of the world's finest operational air forces.
faizhakim 3 years ago
true.. but you know the westerners have this sense of superiority that even exists when it comes to China.. so I wud not be arguing with their ignorant asses for the sake of my pride (our pride) If and theres a big IF India Us ever have a face off we'll se then who kicks whose butts.. Im hoping we'll get PAKFA by the time that situation arises :)
mrbillkills 2 years ago