Resurrection of Jesus (Fact 1: Death by Crucifixion)

[thone2008]

Joseph of Arimathea

Joseph Bar_Mathea = Josephus Flavius

Joseph Father of JESUS

This is true, because JESUS was Written and Created by Josephus Flavius

[Stitchman3875]

Nice Tron Legacy music in the background.

[telemantros]

@AnglicanApologist72 And mark your comment as spam instead of respond to it ... many are immature/intellectual dishonest, it's too bad.

[TheFaithHunter]

I remember watching a program on the National Geographic Channel about the historical Jesus and on that program they found skeletal remains of a man heel bone that had a huge nail in it (not saying it was Jesus') but thats evidence crucifixions were practiced.

[Dogschach]

Was this video's primary focus just on showing that Jesus, without question died? I ask because you never really got into defending the claim that Jesus was both buried and buried by Joseph of Arimathea. In fact, some of your descriptions of crucifixion would suggest otherwise since they detail the victims being food for birds and dogs.

[ScientologySucksAss]

crucifiction is a myth, they never did it. The Hands would snap off under so much pressure after putting a nail threw them. Jesus is for small minded retards. There is No god, deal with it you cave dwelling savages.

[telemantros]

@ScientologySucksAss How do you figure? Where's your evidence? The fact that the Journal of the American Medical Association stated nothing about this demonstrates the contrary.

[seinfan9]

@telemantros He's just a troll. Even a quick google search would tell that ignoramus that the victims were usually nailed in the wrist, not the palms as depicted in Renaissance art.

[jcrebel18]

@telemantros

I think they're just trolling.

[greenguynate]

@ScientologySucksAss Crucifixion is not a Christian nor a theistic idea, so don't think you have to rule out the idea of crucifixion to rule out Christianity. Besides this, no educated historian would ever doubt that the Romans practiced crucifixion. This is why the Gospels don't have to go into much detail about what crucifixion is. While they may have put nails through the hands, they most probably did tie the arms to the cross bar, which would be draped over them.

[lockdown260]

@ScientologySucksAss You call us savages yet you are the one who acts uncivilized. If you are confident you are correct then ,by all means, prove it with evidence. Don't worry , we'll wait.

[adrenacrumb]

Even if you proved Jesus existed and every word of the gospel happened you would still be unable to prove Jesus was the son of God or that there is reason we should follow any of what he said.

[telemantros]

@adrenacrumb Not what I'm arguing here.

[MrJurekGG]

There is no extra biblical proof for Jesus at all.

Or, there are hundreds of thousands descriptions and assertions over the ages...Like yours, pal. Like very yours !

Repeating after repeating the same repeated shit over and over again.

The truth is: One (one!) solid proof of Jesus resurrection and, the atheism is over, forever. No other religions will ever exist. Just Christianity, with some mere remains of Judaism (maybe?).

One real proof of Jesus existence and, the faith is over. Finito.

[owchywawa]

@MrJurekGG If that was the case, we wouldn't have creationism right now.

[xTheUnknownTruthx]

@MrJurekGG "There is no extra biblical proof for Jesus at all." That statement is a naively concocted fallacy whose origins are based out of ignorance. With that aside, I'd like to point said party to a list of extra-biblical sources that verify the very existence of Christ Jesus. carm dot org (forward slash) non-biblical-accounts-new-test­ament-events-andor-people. This list is actually lists citations unlike many of those who denounce the plenary & historical Authenticity of the scriptures.

[xTheUnknownTruthx]

@xTheUnknownTruthx That list doesn't even mention all the other extra biblical proof either. Given your train of thought, you probably deny the existence of many figures of historical importance. Hopefully not....

[xTheUnknownTruthx]

I am glad that you give citations for your extrapolations UNLIKE SOME PEOPLE.

[xTheUnknownTruthx]

Did I hear the Tron theme in the background? lol

[antybu86]

Leaving Josephus aside (because you know as well as I do that the quote isn't as reliable as you'd like), all you've truly shown through multiple attestation is that the crucifixion was a popularly repeated story in the mid-to-late first century - not that it did in fact happen. You're much better off using the criterion of historical plausibility here. Also, some of your multiple attestations aren't really multiple attestations (e.g. the authors Matthew and Luke copied from Mark).

[telemantros]

@antybu86 "all you've truly shown through multiple attestation is that the crucifixion was a popularly repeated story..." I wonder if you are consistent with your skepticism in all historical documents?

[antybu86]

@telemantros Well, I certainly think I am. In my opinion the criterion of historical plausibility - and I think the crucifixion of such a religious leader is historically plausible - plays first fiddle to multiple attestation. Problem is, that same guy rising from the dead is hardly historically plausible.

Having the criteria other way round, as many apologists do, you would have to say something like "if the story of Beowulf had multiple early attestations, then that would make it nonfiction."

[pirbird14]

Josephus states that his friends had been on the cross 3 days before he took them down. Jesus was only there 6 hours. Tacitus hated Nero and routinely exaggerated his crimes. Josephus passages were Christian extrapolations. According to Mathew, the tomb was sealed the morning after the burial. 2 of the gospels rely n Mark, who was not an eyewitness. The extra-biblical sources merely record hearsay evidence. The sponge containing vinegar likely contained soporific herbs.

Try again.

[owchywawa]

@pirbird14 "The sponge containing vinegar likely contained soporific herbs."

What sources did you get that from and wouldn't a spear to the side kind of make that irrelevant?

[pirbird14]

@owchywawa Depends how deep the spear wound was. If the crucifixion happened as claimed by the gospels,the wound in the side proves he was still alive when taken down from the cross. The wound poured liquids. Dead men don't bleed.

[telemantros]

@pirbird14 After being beaten to a pulp, having spikes driven through your hands and bleeding for 3 hours straight without medical attention I think it's going to take a little more than soporific herbs to do the job.

[pirbird14]

@telemantros Really? Then how did Josephus' friends survive for 3 days?

[telemantros]

@pirbird14 Most likely because it is unknown whether he was tied or nailed, nor do we know if he was scourged prior. Moreover, we don't know how long he was up, and he didn't have a spear to the chest. Concisely, there are some dissimilarities and/or vagueness between the accounts. The argument is, given Jesus' unique situation, it is very unlikely that he would have lived.

[pirbird14]

@telemantros Given that we don't know whether Jesus even existed, nor whether he was actually crucified as claimed in the gospels, we don't know whether he died on the cross. The only unique thing about Jesus' situation is the claim that he was taken down after a mere six hours, whereas most victims stayed till they died - a process that could take up to a week. The gospels say he was remained on the cross from the 3rd hour till the 9th - 6 hours.

[fomoran]

@telemantros, How so? If morphine is given to people in exteme pain it can send them off to sleep, what has an amount ofpunishment to do with whether the herbs knock him out? i accept pirbird's points about the sources. In fact when i was reading on the subject i got the idea that the Josephus quotes had been proven to not have been by his hand. When did they regain popularity and some air of authenticity?

[pirbird14]

@fomoran If any victim were scourged as badly as claimed, they wouldn't survive more than a few hours, let alone days; because, they would bleed to death in a matter of hours. Yet we do have accounts of people surviving for days - up to a week. The Romans crucified thousands of Jews at a time during the revolts. I would imagine they'd get a bit sloppy with details when"processing" that many prisoners at a time - and maybe some people managed to steal a loved one back on occasion.

[fomoran]

@pirbird14, just to check. I was asking telemantros why sleepytime herbs wouldn't knock someone out. I didn't want to assume that he didn't know what 'soporific' meant and was just parroting your phrase back with an argument unrelated to anything you said. Also in reference to 'sloppy processing' i saw a documentary that showed a dratatisaton of a primary source mentioning offhandedly that many people get rescued and he almost talked his way into being released. Terry Jones as historian again.

[pirbird14]

@fomoran That's ok. I was just pointing out that the gospel account taken at face value doesn't even make sense. I'm no expert; but, I doubt that anyone beaten as badly as in the medical article cited here would survive 6 hours. I believe that he would expire from blood loss within a few hours at most.

[fomoran]

@pirbird14, oh good.