Imho all corporate music is homogenized, therefore Estelle is rather soulless... If you like soul you should at least listen to those that sing with it ala Alice Russell or Sharon Jones. Fuck corporation media control!
No disrespect to Duffy but how exactly can people who buy Duffy, comment on soul music, and have the audacity to assume that they know the first thing about 'real' soul music?
Duffy herself said that she considers her music to be more a 'tribute' to soul music than actually 'being soul music'. She also said Estelle has a good point which was that talented artists & specifically Black artists are NOT welcome in the British music industry!
soul has its root in call and response (the cotton fields of the slave-owning southern crackers) which gave birth to "spirituals," which gave birth to blues which gave birth to jazz which incorporated blues and southern hillbilly music/bluegrass/country music (see british influence).rock and roll (not "rock") was a term used by blacks to describe what was goin' on in the beddy-bye (see "good golly, miss molly") and the brits picked it up in the 60's. rock is a bastard of british music.
well I'm done arguing on this its been fun really has but there isnt much of a point it satisfied my boredom for awhile but I'm done with it have fun bickering amongst yourselves everyone.
The comments and rhetoric is on this page is so typically American. Generally-speaking, Americans have a strong tendency to go into this "pseudo-I'm openminded" place when they either can't win an argument or know very little about a subject. The problem in America (and other parts of the world) has been a lack of credibility and respect. The Soul artistes of the past and present have been a major influence on all other genres of American music. Life is life!
I aint bothered where the music comes from, although im not ignorant of it, by the time the music reaches my ears i have already placed in in a context that means something to me regardless of who/where it came from first. The same can be said when i drive my car, i dont pay homage to Mr ford or who ever for starting to mass produce them, it either drives well or is a bag of shit. People, music is music, its one of the few things that unites us as human beings, get over it and move on...peace !
I appreciate Estelle's comment and more Black artist both here in the United States and in the UK need to reclaim what has always been ours. Soul music is BLACK in its origin and is an expression of some of our hardships. I find it funny how everyone is so quick to want to be a part of the Black culture but wants nothing to do with Black people. The truth is, soul music, like hip-hop, R&B, and even Rock and Techno is BLACK music, that non-Blacks like and then try to claim as their own. Shame.
oh who gives a fucking shit, music is music, i hate all this OMG WE DID IT, no WE DID IT shit. at the end of the day there are some white singers who sing soul who do it better than some black singers and do people say "Omg shes so much better than a black person?" nah don't think so, all of you people arguing clearly don't know what music is supposed to be about. get real.
I don't think that anyone can argue against the statement that most forms of popular music have their roots in black US music. However, more to the point - since when was Estelle a SOUL singer? She's a second rate commercial R&B popstar with one hit courtesy of Kanye West.
that there is a significant amount of music in America that is inspired by various sources including white, chinese, Russian, Latino, Greek, all I'm saying is there are alot of sources for music and that it isnt so important who or where it comes from.
She's partly right. But she is not a soul musician, she is a pop singer. Real British soul/funk is top quality stuff, I would say probably better, in general, than American stuff right now. But let's get this straight. I don't think Estelle is talking about soul, she's talking about the industry's dumbed down perversion of it. Soul requires talent and well soul, regardless of skin color. Yes it was invented by Black Americans, and shared with the entire world. Thank you!!
The Black artist in mainstream British music is always going to be sold as a non habitual product. Mainstream Britain is not ready for a traditionally strong Black image (or rather the policy makers in these mainstream record companys are not ready for that image and feel Britain is not ready)
We as a people in 2010 don't need them to help us and should start our own, they hate us anyway so lets forget all about them or continue watching them asking us to clean for them after 500 hundred years.
She is right...Get over it Wiggers!!!! Soul is an amalgam of Gospel and Blues that both have their direct roots in the African oral and melodic tradition. Before your ancestors uprooted and killed us on mass. This is why we can sing like we do because although the seperation from this root is several hundreds of years the polyrythms and sounds we carry in our souls through that oral tradition.
Soul=Slavery, Black, Dispossed,Stolen from the centre of the Universe, Sufferation.
just skip that video response to Alice Russells "the lights went out" she is performig for the bbc! There is just no way of campairing the quality of musician ability!
@converseshoeboy Very true, mainstream British music is a national embarrassment. The Americans have Kelis, Jill Scott, Janelle Monae, and Erykah Badu... we have, uhhhhh the Noisettes, Duffy and Beverley Knight. How lame.
@converseshoeboy whaaat ??! British music scene is killing the game right now in terms of Soul music . All of the American Soul artists are under-promoted & over-looked independent artists [not that that's a bad thing, I'm an avid listener of indie.soul artists] but the UK has more mainstream soul artists , they seem to appreciate the art much more than we do in the states . . .
@msrynae nah man, i live in the uk n there is rarely soul music in the top 40, its jus pop music which all sounds the same. u got people like maxwell, alicia keys (bit r'n'b i guess), musiq etc n they've all had number 1's, n ppl lyk jill scott, angie stone etc, they dnt get a lot of media hype but theyve made their names!
@NotHomelessAnymore@converseshoeboy ah, i see . . . well I'm totally a fan . . . you guys have Adele, Szjerdene, Alice Russel, Bonono. . . . uhm, my mind just blanked. . . but my ipod is majority UK soul artists .
Music industry is highly competitive, if you have talent you will succeed in it.
I believe that there are more white soul musicians in the UK now for the sheer reason it is the music they learned to love; an influence from across the pond that they've admired and grown up with.
It undeniably started as black American music but Estelle is no Aretha Franklin. There are currently better quality artists than her, black or white... race shouldn't be an issue. It's about talent, screw labels.
Soul music is "Black Music". Yes there is Hall & Oats, Robin Thicke, and many talented "blue eyed soul singers". These artist success in the genre of "soul music" is a reflection of black peoples ability to hear good music beyond skin color. This cannot recreate this- It already has roots. Lastly, "soul music" is about an experience of a people whose story started in African were enslaved and used music and all the emotions that they could attach to a song to escape their daily "hell".
@fg97c416 thank u. these type of posts will have to be reposted because ppl just don't know history. it is just really about truth, and i hate to say, but the black truth is always so muted throughout the minds of america's ppl. in history, blacks have always embraced others in trying to be like them, emulating the swagger if a black man or the curves of an african woman, but as soon as given a chance, black ideas r sucked in and given new names, new faces, new looks, and a new image.
Soul music is "Black Music". Yes there is Hall & Oats, Robin Thicke, and many talented "blue eyed soul singers". These artist success in the genre of "soul music" is a reflection of black peoples ability to hear good music beyond skin color. This cannot recreate this- It already has roots. Lastly, "soul music" is about an experience of a people whose story started in African were enslaved and used music and all the emotions that they could attach to a song to escape their daily "hell".
I feel the way to solve the problem is for those people who feel they are not being represented to start up a label that supports these kind of artists in general, black or white! When the money starts rolling in you know the bigger labels take notice.
For me Estelle is a quality artist who probably didn't get all the support she deserved but imo her style is nothing like Adele or Winehouse and it appeals more to Americans than Brits as it is more like American mainstream.
And can you explain too me how she is a racist, considering the fact that she's making a valid point and is not a member of nick griffin party. Do you even know what racism is?
i love me some blue eyed soulsisngers, but the thing is that when the states began doing away with the blues the british picked it up, this is why you folks like adele covering sam cooke songs and duffy. i think estelle frustration comes out of her being british and having to make her start in america. the british has always embraced the blues and out of the blues comes some of the greatist rock artists of all time.
This song is largely soul-less and irritating, and her taking a swipe at Adele and Duffy is a bit rich. I liked Estelle before, but to be honest, her voice is not what I'd call a great soul voice. Lauryn Hill, Jill Scott, Chaka Khan, Aretha Franklin, Erykah Badu and even Dusty Springfield are all far more soulful and "real"..
the term 'soul' music is so polycemic that no-ones comments here actually mean anything (that is, they don't carry a specific clear message). Every statement here can be interpreted in hundreds of ways to mean thousands of things. Everyone has their own understanding of the term 'sul music' .
its funny how all the comments relating to soul music being black r thumbed domn and the comments saying soul music is everyones music is thumbed up. well ppl truth always hurts and we cnt change history, so lets see... aint no denying SOUL MUSIC is BLACK AMERICAN music, born from the struggles of slavery on american soil into the music we all hear 2day. we SHARE IT NOW bcuz its american culture but it was black first n im sick of ppl acting like most of american music wasnt black to begin with
Musically speaking, when peeps from africa were enslaved in the u.s.a. they were exposed to a wealth of folk music from right around the world that no other country could produce due to immigration. This was fused with the beats they brought with them. Thats what it was born out of. An influence does not just flow one way whatever the circumstances that brought it about. Thats why peeps are giving thumbs up to comments saying its everyones.
Soul same as Rock is largely Black American in it's origin I agree. The negro spirtuals that became what we know of today as soul music developed first from southern white gospel which slaves heard outside of white churches until they set up their own. However some Bluegrass that is soul oriented is white and developed alongside black soul
@lionzion32 negro spirituals are not based on southern white gospel songs. The earliest spirituals are not even sung in the same keys as white gospel songs. Please read up on the history of the old African American spiritual music before you start making incorrect statement.
This reasoning is silly. Should we also say that rock n' roll or classical music is somehow 'white'? Does soul music have roots in black culture? Sure it does. You can say the same thing about rock and classical music having its roots in 'white culture'. Does that mean that whites have some exclusive right to these types of music? Hell no. It would be silly to say otherwise. The same holds true for soul music. Good music is good music, skin color shouldn't matter.
@TempestWriter rock actually has it's roots in black culture . . . but this isn't a race war about who's better, or what music belongs to who , just as MizzPrettyGyal was saying -- it's ALL American Cultured music now . Estelles point was merely that it is very difficult landing a successful career in soul music when the heads of most record labels are white . you're right, color SHOULDN'T matter, but often times it does .
@TempestWriter Rock was a black culture thing too lol stolen music. white people steal everything so wouldnt be suprised if classical music was started by some other race. but yeah stealing is ok tho if your white! :) most ppl dnt care who does the music white or black jus aslongs you show credit for those who brang it through. europeans do it cause they have the media power to do so. jus facts rude boy p.s. Elvis aint the king of pop.
@TempestWriter my reasoning isnt silly, because its not reason i'm conveying,its fact. and i'll sum it up quickly since you never really read what i wrote: FYI -Rock doesn't have its roots in White ppl, rock is born from black ppl as well (GEEZ!!!!). Rock n Roll and Soul Music are derivatives of african American slavery,and i'm not saying it for my health. No one has exclusive rights over creativity and expressionism. The truth is just that. your comment is more of a statement, not a rebuttal.
@MizzPrettyPrettyGyal yes soul music was introduced by black people. I'm sure white soul singers are greatful too. At least I am. Cuz I love it!! Everybody has soul, just not everybody knows how to sing from it!!
I wouldnt say most American music is black perhaps half at most but not most of American music is solely originated from black culture. To say that would be pretty ignorant to all the other forms of music out there.
@Danman3ish If you can prove that most American music wasnt black to begin with then i'll agree. other than that lets see. America has been "America" since about 1776 right? Ok. who was in America during its virgin youth, its early beginnings..? Africans & Natives! OK, so to begin with what would be called American music, would these ppl not be it? Gotdamnit the Banjo is an African instrument! if you listened to music in 1778, 99.9% chance be played on a fusion of instruments and by slaves.
@MizzPrettyPrettyGyal Well let's see you left out Rock n Roll which is definitely not African theres metal, grunge, techno, country (however I leave country up for debate), punk, Barshop quartet, swing, garage (technically can't be attributed to any one nation or group of people), there are probably alot more but thats all I can think of at the moment. I'm not trying to say there isnt a siginifcant amount of black music out there, nor am I trying to put that music down simply defending
@Danman3ish Yes it was asshole Rock N Roll started with African American people and varied over the years into R&B and Hip Hop. Stop stereotyping and actually do your research. Because the man who started it all was Chuck Berry A BLACK MAN IN AMERICA and he never gets any damn credit for it. I'm sorry I had to educate your ignorant self but don't spew out ludicrous opinions they get you nowhere. :)
@Danman3ish What are you talking about? Are you seriously not aware that rock music is rooted in blues and rock n roll, which are both, American genres:
Rock music is a genre of popular music that entered the mainstream in the 1960s. It has its roots in 1940s and 1950s rock and roll, rhythm and blues, country music and also drew on folk music, jazz and classical music (Wiki).
Rock music from the UK started by copying rock from the USA in the 1950's & 60's
The earliest Rock & Roll Music dates back to the 1920's and developed from Blues, Jazz Gospel & Irish Folk music. So I suppose you could say it is mixed-heritage music.
I don't like rock music but at least I know what I'm talking about. Dumbshit!
@MizzPrettyPrettyGyal - I'm a white boy who's been in the music business for over 20 years now, and what you said is SPOT ON!! The music business especially in Europe and Australia have been pushing the popularity of Black soul music, but want it sung through White faces. Money and bad business have corrupted everything it's touched from music to sports. She's right, it's not the artists fault. The board room and the recording studio are a bad mix.
@MizzPrettyPrettyGyal Its got nothing to do with being black. Its African american music. Blacks aren't a race you fucking idiot. Just because your black doesnt make it your music. Extremely ignorant.
the original soul music was. However their are many international branches of soul music which emulate the style. if you listen, estelle often sings in an american accent. Estelle sometimes sings in a way that is recreating the tone and vowel sounds of original american soul, therefore it is british soul music.
Take into consideration what Estelle has had to experience while pursuing her career, maybe she has experienced discrimination and maybe still experiencing it, maybe it is not one of those things one can just "GET OVER".
Everyone is entitled to there opinions and some peoples opinions hit very close to the truth if not the truth and it hits nerves and provokes a response.
The 'truth' is Estelle has a chip on her shoulder. I grew up in Sheperds Bush like her and now live in the States. The racial tension that exists in the States does not exist in Britain and I can say that because I have lived in both countries.
Jamelia is an eg of a successful 'Black' British soul singer cos she talented and beautiful, not cos she happens to be black. Estelle is a pop singer she is not in the same league as Duffy and Adele.
the 'truth' huh? thats bullshit. and what would you know of racial tension anyway? let me guess? racially ambiguous, middle class? liberal? why people gotta take what Estelle said out of context? shussh already!
eight thumbs up? fucking sheep.
Estelle says it as it is. In the UK of today an Omar, Beverly Knight and Lynden David Hall will struggle. I could go on. no real promotion, no understanding of black British soul.
Jamelia? talented and beautiful? the fcuk? step your game up missy
@missmiaow2009 i disagree i live in shepherds bush and i should know Britain as a whole is racist it may not be in your face racist but its institutional racism where its behind your back i even have people that come over from the USA and say damn Britain is way more racist than USA how do you do it .
i understand what estelle is tlalkin about. back in the day to have a soulful voice was not popular. black singers had their songs stolen from them and sang in a "softer" version. Now everybody wants to jump on the soul train. I can understand if by experience you can be soulful such as mary j. jasmine sullivan etc I can FEEL THEM. Its always enticing to see a white person with soul. music is for everybody. what i dont get is why are they nominated for music of black origin award? thats too much
i'm Black and i really like Duffy, Joss Stone, and Amy Winehouse, but i have to admit, i wondered what happened to all the Black British soul singers. But still I like the music coming out of the UK today.
As far as i know most of them didnt go anywhere, you can still buy their records, the same as most of all the white artists who faded. Take "eternal" for example, they chucked the white girl out of the group then split up whose fault is that ? Never mind, Alexandra Burke is coming up shortly and will probably be the next Leona Lewis. Its not about skintone, its more about what material /songs the artists have.
I'd like to believe that its not about the skin tone but I don't. I love the Amy Winehouse's, the Joss Stones' etc but there have been black female artists out there past and present with this sound who never had the chance. If Mica Paris had been white or even mixed I think she would have been a bigger star musically than she became. The music industry both UK and USA has always more readily supported white soul singing talent.
If there were no black artists to have ever been promoted/signed doing soul stylee and only white artists you would have a point but that is not the case. If anything white artists doing soul have been ignored by record companies because it became a stereotype until now. i.e.only black peeps do soul etc.
There would be no beyonce tina turner whitney houston mary j etc , they sold millions.
p.s. Take "american boy" thats as pop as it comes. Estelle didnt get anywhere until she went pop, Its like if you are a brit artist and you do a song about america they love it. Its like in the 80`s Kim Wilde "we`re the kids in america"all over again. Sad but true.
by the way im White and i really like mary j blige, beyonce and aretha but i have to admit i wonder what the term "sound black" is supposed to mean.Estelle doesnt sound like any of them to me yet they are all black. in fact to me vocally joss stone sounds more like aretha than estelle does. I really cant understand how a persons skintone can affect their vocal cords, take shaheen from britains got talent for example,he sounds more like MJ than MJ did at that age !
Correction, it aint about cos estelle done good in the u.s.a. its just that peeps are a bit bored with the same old excuse being trotted out time and time again blaming skintone on the fact that she didnt do so well in the u.k. There are plenty of black artists done good in the u.k. without going to the u.s.a. Thats why we`all in the u.k. "get so hot on this topic" This is my opinion.
What black girls? Black soul in the UK doesn't have longevity.Estelle speaks the truth,unless you are white you don't get the push or backing.I can't think of one black soul female singer who (in your opinion) has done good by Amy winehouse,adele or duffy standards.And Leona doesn't count,she's pop.
So are you saying that brit soul is racist but pop aint ? Why would estelles brit record company have signed her up in the first place if they had a prob with her skintone ? like "oops shes black, better not promote her too much"" Eternal,mistique, miss dynamite,gabrielle,mica paris,tracy chapman,lisa maffia, heather small,beverley knight, jamelia, shirley bassey all sold millions of records, just cos it aint hip and trendy anymore does that count ?
WHERE ARE HALF THOSE BLACK ARTIST NOW? oh yeah and Tracy Chapman is American.
Why are you taking it so personally?And Leona isn't a soul artist,if you knew anything about music or even soul music you'd know she wasn't.Duffy/Adele/Amy etc are pop because their music is popular right now.Black music inundates the charts.But the underlying sound of their music is Soul.White Artists are more viable in the UK,they last longer because their appeal to the market and are novely,if they sound black.
"Sound black " ? to me adele just sounds pure cockney when she sings with an english voice and a london accent. I didnt say that leona was soul anymore than estelle is if you compare them to aretha/mary j and if leona doesnt count cos shes pop like you say then amy/adele/duffy dont count either so estelle has nothing to moan about does she ? I thought american boy was pop tho but thats just me and what does how im taking it have to do with anything?!
This is supposed to be multicultural britain not black britain,eveybody is free to have fish and chips or chicken rice and peas or a curry. All this racialisation of music is wrong. Music is supposed to bring peeps together not create barriers, its just music get over it !
p.s. I can play that tune as well, a lot of peeps think winehouse,adele and duffy dont count as "soul" artists cos they aint black so go put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Who does she think she is?she made one hit and she goin on like a diva!!!lets see if she can survive and b cosistent and make these hits.I would support her if she was humble but she a bitch so i hope she crash and burns
Estelle doesn't understand the "way of success".Most people be come successful by doing something wrong or stupid eg. Amy Winehouse does drugs, hence her being in the paper and getting noticed. Also Katie Price, doing things that will get paparazzi going NUTS, such as the time she was flirting with another man in the pub/club in Bristol. Success is all about "upping your game" and Estelle, despite the fact shes a great singer, just does not do it.
stupid bitch cries racism because her album isnt doing aswell as she'd like or because there are ther stars who happen to be white whos careers a doing better, im am soooo not a racist but there are more important things going on in the world that estelle could be talking about, get over it!
Correction, There are More important things going on in your world, but not in everyone else's world. Why she gotta be a stupid bitch just cause she's giving out her opinion? In that case you're a fucking Moran and a shit head cause you just gave out your dumb ass opinion. Fuck Face. People are soooooo ignorant.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
and you are the cum that your skank of a mother should have swallowed rather than leaving ur father pump his load up her smelly, dirty, crab infested, AIDS ridden cunt to produce an end result of you, die ya fuckin loser! bet ur another cunt that cries racism at every opportunity
Firstly you thick piece of shit im not british so thanks for proving how much of a fuckin retard you are and secondly i dont hate black people nor did i ever say i did so why dont u re-read the comments before makin up bullshit and makin a bigger spastic out of urself and thirdly your reply was fuckin pathetic, i FUCKIN OWNED you on my previous comment - your reply simply is good enough for me to waste time OWNING you again! mwahahahaha
omg ur replies are getting better and better - "shit on a plate and eat it" wow thats really good! stupid fuckin yank! once again i have OWNED u with my first comment ans once agin ur reply is pathetic so do urself a favour find the biggest cliff u can and jump off it i will gladly piss on ur grave when its done :)
so theres an exsample to shut this rasism thing RIGHT up and tbh estell is talkin the truth but also i can see by these coments that when it comes to blacks and whites some reall Talk needs to be put in place coz what ive bin readin makes me doubt if prejugdest towards each other is gone or if its just kept to your self :|
can i say people are reading into this wrongwhite people are geing defensive because a dig is being taken at there culture and black people are get more defensive coz the white people are right listen estell is sayin comercial soul WHICH IS ADELLE DUFYY dnt dissagre wikipeidia soul and youl know what im ona bout shessayin theindrstry dosnt make time for real soul which just happens to be black peoples forte dont get me wrong joss stone is real soul thats why she didnt make it big in the uk etha
For real man for real! If any British Soul artist wants to make it you got to get the fuck out of this place,Omar,Don E,Mica Paris,Root Manouva,Floetry....can you see the pattern?
yeah i can, though all the peeps i mentioned were mostly only succesful in the uk and estelle is moanin about only white artists being promoted, how come they all done good then ? and if black artists are being passed over, how come estelles british record company didnt sign a white artist instead of her ?
Of course she's right! I work in the industry. Time and time they pass over beautiful Black singers who could sing Duffy and Adele OFF THE PAGE, because they'd rather promote White singers who sing `black.' In my opinion that's like women who take botox trying to look 25 when everyone can see they're fifty - just not bona fide!
Hahaha, this is interesting.Duffy won an award over Estelle the other night at the Brits, and estelle looked so pissed off. Now I know why, bitterness because Duffy's making it big in both the UK and USA.
Estelle is right Lamaar is the UKs brightest male singing taleent but his label dont know what to do with him. adele and Duffy do have talent but thier fame rests in them filling the amy winehouse gap and that itself is all based on the 60s soul sound that winehouse has rehashed a black singer with the same talent wouldnt get such fame imo it will be interesting to see if these singers can have the same fame without it.
Adele is very talented as is winehouse but to say they have more edge or charisma is absurd Winehouse is basically a crack/alchoholic and Adele is a slightly overweight girl is that edge and charisma these days?
cool sound but it sounds like shes doing chrissette michelle, whats up with the copy sound,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,first colby callait copied corrine bailey rae's sound now this.
cool sound but it sounds like shes doing chrissette michelle, whats up with the copy sound,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,first colby callait copied corrine bailey rae's sound now this.
Sam Phillips said:"If I could find a white man with the Negro sound and the Negro feel, I could make a billion dollars"
- And this was one of the men who launched the career of Elvis so he knew what he was talking about it and still rings true today; Amy is pretty good but whoever said she was the New Queen of Soul needs to be smacked; Joss Stone and Duffy are whack; and Adele wouldn't be getting this attention if she was a black neo-soul artist; I'd choose Ledisi over her anyday
I Agree. To be honest, I Think Estelle is a one hit wonder with ''American Boy''. She's released various singles after that & they have all floped. Sadly I Think people just bought Her album ''Shine'' because of the success of American Boy. Dont get me wrong she has other great songs too. But it seems Estelle is SO FAR a one hit wonder.
yeah but joss stone "tell me what we`re gonna do now" is right up there for me ! its more of a more tuneful bluesy janis joplin stylee than a gospelly/soul feel.
Yeah I get what she's saying but here she is saying why ain't there as many black people doing the soul in the UK as opposed to white soul singers as though there was a kind of white monopoly on the scene.Many black musicians have gained ledgend status on the white music scene. Nat King Cole, Chuck berry, little richard, Hendrix, BB King, m jackson, prince etc . It don't matter what colour you are it's more of a matter of are you good enough to sock it to um? Hope it works out for her.
Well said olsenal.Just cos you're black it don't mean you have instant soul.The Americans have their soul singers and we have are soul singers.Estelle could only dream of having 'soul' like past great black American soul artists had.Stop whingeing Estelle cos if you have real soul you have not to be afraid of white soul imposter's like Adele and Duffy.
innit tho ? back when soul was emerging where were all the afro carribeans doing soul back then ? we had millie small " my boy lollipop" the equals "viva bobby jo" and cy grant with the banana boat song as well as some great ska and reggae. We all grew up listening to american soul and afro carribeans have no more right to do that style than anglo saxon brits. Anyone giving thumbs down to me saying that must be racist. We need to kick race out of music like they are trying to do with football.
thats not what Estelle is trying to say, soul is deeply routed from African and black history, the thing is her label was investing in her like they were for amy whinehouse or duffy.....she's not whining shes telling the truth, shes had better success by signing with an American label instead a british label! so really think about whats being said... its some way discriminatory.
it is true there are lot of good and excellent soul singers in the UK the only who came close to getting some good status was Beverly Knight and Seal in some ways
but all the rest of them are underrated
Floetry had to sign to an American music label just so they can get a good deal
i cant see how estelle comes to the conclusion that because she thinks amy and duffys labels promote them more than estelles british label promoted her down to racial discrimination, sign with a better label then innit ? estelle had success with 1980, surely if estelles label was racially biased against black peeps they wouldnt have signed her up in the first place.
yeah but u said it was in some way disciminatory, thats nothing to do with racial discrimination is it ? what have white artists got to do with that ? surely if estelles "not very good" british label was racially biased against black peeps they would have signed a white artist.
Well I have noticed that the music industry is mostly owned by whites. And if Black people aren't talking about sex, drugs, or money they don't want it to air. They want blacks to come off as greedy people who are these bad people who kill and blah blah blah. In an interview that singer Trey Songz did he said that everytime he comes up with a good song that is inspirational his label just pushes it to the side which is why he is so underated.
What happened to trey songz also happens to white artists in the sense that labels wont release what artists want them to. U have 2 admit there have been many successful black brit artists who r not gangsta, what about soul 2 soul, jamelia, ms dynamite, beverley knight, gabrielle, eternal, mystique etc from way back right up to alexandra burke.
a few more not gangsta, shirley bassey,imagination, musical youth, dizee rascal (or maybe thats sex drugs and money) and groups with black peeps in them, s club 7 blue,sugar babes that new group the saturdays and dont get me started on all the not gangsta americans, beyonce, mary j, whitney, aretha, tina turner, prince blah blah blah i wont bore u anymore....
thats an interesting point, i can see that black peeps can relate to soul as its "deeply rooted from african and black" "american" history, also the english language is deeply rooted in white british history so its only natural that white brit kids can relate to something expressed in that language as well. Its the same with rap, that is influenced by english poetry and rhyme, kids have always learned rhymes from an early age, there is more than one influence at work here.
I lived in the UK for 13 yrs and remember alot of good black british that was really good. Some have made to the US on one song or album like a Mica Paris, Omar, Craig David or Mark Morrison. Then groups like Soul II Soul and Loose Ends have success in 80s-90s. Yet are some like Massive Attack, Gabrielle, China Black or Beverly Knight never got any attention at all.
true that...estelle don't give two fucks about what u say to her about her looks etc. The girl has talent and she does sing true RnB music. All those Amy winehouse and Duffy...whatever...who do you think makes them sing the why they do now. For those who are not enlightened...yes black music;gospel, soul, jazzzzz. Yes we make it better. So my dear Estelle you keep doing the good work
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
no she dont, mary j and american artists sing the true r + b not british/british/carribean/white brits, back in the day when otis and aretha were doing their stuff what did we have ? cy grant with the banana boat song ! stop trying to steal the gospel/soul from the americans and claiming it as your own just because of skin tone and be true to your own stylee, calypso, reggae and folk music.
Thanks for saying so, i see i got a few thumbs down for saying that but its true, afro carribeans have no more claim to soul music than white kids do, we need to kick race out of music. Back when soul was emerging carribeans were doing calypso, ska, reggae and we had acts like millie singing "my boy lollipop" or the equals doing "viva bobby jo" where were all the afro carribeans doing soul back then ?
i love you
xikidi 6 months ago
Comment removed
TeamOfThe80s 6 months ago
Imho all corporate music is homogenized, therefore Estelle is rather soulless... If you like soul you should at least listen to those that sing with it ala Alice Russell or Sharon Jones. Fuck corporation media control!
Landyn99 10 months ago
No disrespect to Duffy but how exactly can people who buy Duffy, comment on soul music, and have the audacity to assume that they know the first thing about 'real' soul music?
Duffy herself said that she considers her music to be more a 'tribute' to soul music than actually 'being soul music'. She also said Estelle has a good point which was that talented artists & specifically Black artists are NOT welcome in the British music industry!
Trolls - get back under your collective bridge!
MaxMisterC 1 year ago 2
soul has its root in call and response (the cotton fields of the slave-owning southern crackers) which gave birth to "spirituals," which gave birth to blues which gave birth to jazz which incorporated blues and southern hillbilly music/bluegrass/country music (see british influence).rock and roll (not "rock") was a term used by blacks to describe what was goin' on in the beddy-bye (see "good golly, miss molly") and the brits picked it up in the 60's. rock is a bastard of british music.
jeandarc824 1 year ago
looks to me like she's jealous of adele and amy winehouse's voices...
buchanan590 1 year ago
well I'm done arguing on this its been fun really has but there isnt much of a point it satisfied my boredom for awhile but I'm done with it have fun bickering amongst yourselves everyone.
Danman3ish 1 year ago
Who?
sonfnn 1 year ago
The comments and rhetoric is on this page is so typically American. Generally-speaking, Americans have a strong tendency to go into this "pseudo-I'm openminded" place when they either can't win an argument or know very little about a subject. The problem in America (and other parts of the world) has been a lack of credibility and respect. The Soul artistes of the past and present have been a major influence on all other genres of American music. Life is life!
etanielyehuda 1 year ago
I aint bothered where the music comes from, although im not ignorant of it, by the time the music reaches my ears i have already placed in in a context that means something to me regardless of who/where it came from first. The same can be said when i drive my car, i dont pay homage to Mr ford or who ever for starting to mass produce them, it either drives well or is a bag of shit. People, music is music, its one of the few things that unites us as human beings, get over it and move on...peace !
tomo2470 1 year ago
I appreciate Estelle's comment and more Black artist both here in the United States and in the UK need to reclaim what has always been ours. Soul music is BLACK in its origin and is an expression of some of our hardships. I find it funny how everyone is so quick to want to be a part of the Black culture but wants nothing to do with Black people. The truth is, soul music, like hip-hop, R&B, and even Rock and Techno is BLACK music, that non-Blacks like and then try to claim as their own. Shame.
FaReaList 1 year ago 3
oh who gives a fucking shit, music is music, i hate all this OMG WE DID IT, no WE DID IT shit. at the end of the day there are some white singers who sing soul who do it better than some black singers and do people say "Omg shes so much better than a black person?" nah don't think so, all of you people arguing clearly don't know what music is supposed to be about. get real.
roulettesable 1 year ago
I don't think that anyone can argue against the statement that most forms of popular music have their roots in black US music. However, more to the point - since when was Estelle a SOUL singer? She's a second rate commercial R&B popstar with one hit courtesy of Kanye West.
73BigMC 1 year ago
that there is a significant amount of music in America that is inspired by various sources including white, chinese, Russian, Latino, Greek, all I'm saying is there are alot of sources for music and that it isnt so important who or where it comes from.
Danman3ish 1 year ago
If u wanna see a white person prove that they can sing soul music just as good as any other black person look up Alice russell - she is AMAZING!
XGodOfDeathX 1 year ago
She's partly right. But she is not a soul musician, she is a pop singer. Real British soul/funk is top quality stuff, I would say probably better, in general, than American stuff right now. But let's get this straight. I don't think Estelle is talking about soul, she's talking about the industry's dumbed down perversion of it. Soul requires talent and well soul, regardless of skin color. Yes it was invented by Black Americans, and shared with the entire world. Thank you!!
hesostylish 1 year ago
The British label Tru Thoughts is excellent soul, also check out Ubiquity Records for more great Soul and Funk. Turn off your radios...
hesostylish 1 year ago
The Black artist in mainstream British music is always going to be sold as a non habitual product. Mainstream Britain is not ready for a traditionally strong Black image (or rather the policy makers in these mainstream record companys are not ready for that image and feel Britain is not ready)
We as a people in 2010 don't need them to help us and should start our own, they hate us anyway so lets forget all about them or continue watching them asking us to clean for them after 500 hundred years.
zigzagzig40 1 year ago
She is right...Get over it Wiggers!!!! Soul is an amalgam of Gospel and Blues that both have their direct roots in the African oral and melodic tradition. Before your ancestors uprooted and killed us on mass. This is why we can sing like we do because although the seperation from this root is several hundreds of years the polyrythms and sounds we carry in our souls through that oral tradition.
Soul=Slavery, Black, Dispossed,Stolen from the centre of the Universe, Sufferation.
zigzagzig40 1 year ago
just skip that video response to Alice Russells "the lights went out" she is performig for the bbc! There is just no way of campairing the quality of musician ability!
xberger06 1 year ago
We love you Estelle! I'm amazed by how many people on this forum are mixing issues...
cyberdyva 1 year ago
Jamie Lidell, Alice Russell. Real talk. End of debate.
etherealrhythm 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
WATCH MI VIDEOS
EDUCATING & ENTERTAINING
VERY POSITIVE
JAH LOVE3
JAHCE3 1 year ago
WOT DOES ESTELLE KNO BOUT SOUL?!
dundajob 1 year ago
i feel for her, the british music scene is whack, i don't care what ANYONE says i'm certain she is 100% right
converseshoeboy 1 year ago
@converseshoeboy Very true, mainstream British music is a national embarrassment. The Americans have Kelis, Jill Scott, Janelle Monae, and Erykah Badu... we have, uhhhhh the Noisettes, Duffy and Beverley Knight. How lame.
NotHomelessAnymore 1 year ago
@converseshoeboy whaaat ??! British music scene is killing the game right now in terms of Soul music . All of the American Soul artists are under-promoted & over-looked independent artists [not that that's a bad thing, I'm an avid listener of indie.soul artists] but the UK has more mainstream soul artists , they seem to appreciate the art much more than we do in the states . . .
msrynae 1 year ago
@msrynae nah man, i live in the uk n there is rarely soul music in the top 40, its jus pop music which all sounds the same. u got people like maxwell, alicia keys (bit r'n'b i guess), musiq etc n they've all had number 1's, n ppl lyk jill scott, angie stone etc, they dnt get a lot of media hype but theyve made their names!
converseshoeboy 1 year ago
@NotHomelessAnymore @converseshoeboy ah, i see . . . well I'm totally a fan . . . you guys have Adele, Szjerdene, Alice Russel, Bonono. . . . uhm, my mind just blanked. . . but my ipod is majority UK soul artists .
msrynae 1 year ago
@msrynae thats cool! i like all type of musics but yeah i get what you're sayin
converseshoeboy 1 year ago
music is not black or white
thats why called the genre "SOUL music" not "SKIN music"
bajgergabajgerga 1 year ago
Music industry is highly competitive, if you have talent you will succeed in it.
I believe that there are more white soul musicians in the UK now for the sheer reason it is the music they learned to love; an influence from across the pond that they've admired and grown up with.
It undeniably started as black American music but Estelle is no Aretha Franklin. There are currently better quality artists than her, black or white... race shouldn't be an issue. It's about talent, screw labels.
EzeroJ 1 year ago 3
@EzeroJ cheers .
msrynae 1 year ago
Comment removed
EzeroJ 1 year ago
Soul music is "Black Music". Yes there is Hall & Oats, Robin Thicke, and many talented "blue eyed soul singers". These artist success in the genre of "soul music" is a reflection of black peoples ability to hear good music beyond skin color. This cannot recreate this- It already has roots. Lastly, "soul music" is about an experience of a people whose story started in African were enslaved and used music and all the emotions that they could attach to a song to escape their daily "hell".
fg97c416 1 year ago
@fg97c416 thank u. these type of posts will have to be reposted because ppl just don't know history. it is just really about truth, and i hate to say, but the black truth is always so muted throughout the minds of america's ppl. in history, blacks have always embraced others in trying to be like them, emulating the swagger if a black man or the curves of an african woman, but as soon as given a chance, black ideas r sucked in and given new names, new faces, new looks, and a new image.
MizzPrettyPrettyGyal 1 year ago
Soul music is "Black Music". Yes there is Hall & Oats, Robin Thicke, and many talented "blue eyed soul singers". These artist success in the genre of "soul music" is a reflection of black peoples ability to hear good music beyond skin color. This cannot recreate this- It already has roots. Lastly, "soul music" is about an experience of a people whose story started in African were enslaved and used music and all the emotions that they could attach to a song to escape their daily "hell".
fg97c416 1 year ago
it's obvious there is discrimination everywhere. It is not the fault of estelle that she can SAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNGGGGG!!!!
lessupastar 1 year ago
I feel the way to solve the problem is for those people who feel they are not being represented to start up a label that supports these kind of artists in general, black or white! When the money starts rolling in you know the bigger labels take notice.
For me Estelle is a quality artist who probably didn't get all the support she deserved but imo her style is nothing like Adele or Winehouse and it appeals more to Americans than Brits as it is more like American mainstream.
itsinmynamechap 1 year ago
dont necessarily agree with her but she's pretty easy on the eye so its all gd lol
theunknown845 1 year ago
Estelle is right
Applebaum 1 year ago
shes nothing but a racist
ugofky 1 year ago
@ugofky
And can you explain too me how she is a racist, considering the fact that she's making a valid point and is not a member of nick griffin party. Do you even know what racism is?
H1MLA 1 year ago
She's one of those singers who thinks shes American when she's not. Lame bitch.
jlenoconel 2 years ago
soul music started with black people black influence african descendant...w/o black soul music there would be no so called elvis
ebeledi 2 years ago
i love me some blue eyed soulsisngers, but the thing is that when the states began doing away with the blues the british picked it up, this is why you folks like adele covering sam cooke songs and duffy. i think estelle frustration comes out of her being british and having to make her start in america. the british has always embraced the blues and out of the blues comes some of the greatist rock artists of all time.
whouwantme2b 2 years ago
This song is largely soul-less and irritating, and her taking a swipe at Adele and Duffy is a bit rich. I liked Estelle before, but to be honest, her voice is not what I'd call a great soul voice. Lauryn Hill, Jill Scott, Chaka Khan, Aretha Franklin, Erykah Badu and even Dusty Springfield are all far more soulful and "real"..
JimmyTee73 2 years ago
the term 'soul' music is so polycemic that no-ones comments here actually mean anything (that is, they don't carry a specific clear message). Every statement here can be interpreted in hundreds of ways to mean thousands of things. Everyone has their own understanding of the term 'sul music' .
th3rn 2 years ago
its funny how all the comments relating to soul music being black r thumbed domn and the comments saying soul music is everyones music is thumbed up. well ppl truth always hurts and we cnt change history, so lets see... aint no denying SOUL MUSIC is BLACK AMERICAN music, born from the struggles of slavery on american soil into the music we all hear 2day. we SHARE IT NOW bcuz its american culture but it was black first n im sick of ppl acting like most of american music wasnt black to begin with
MizzPrettyPrettyGyal 2 years ago 29
Musically speaking, when peeps from africa were enslaved in the u.s.a. they were exposed to a wealth of folk music from right around the world that no other country could produce due to immigration. This was fused with the beats they brought with them. Thats what it was born out of. An influence does not just flow one way whatever the circumstances that brought it about. Thats why peeps are giving thumbs up to comments saying its everyones.
olsenal 2 years ago 2
Soul same as Rock is largely Black American in it's origin I agree. The negro spirtuals that became what we know of today as soul music developed first from southern white gospel which slaves heard outside of white churches until they set up their own. However some Bluegrass that is soul oriented is white and developed alongside black soul
lionzion32 2 years ago
@lionzion32 negro spirituals are not based on southern white gospel songs. The earliest spirituals are not even sung in the same keys as white gospel songs. Please read up on the history of the old African American spiritual music before you start making incorrect statement.
dadevi 1 year ago
Let the church say AMEN!!!
dede2010 2 years ago
@MizzPrettyPrettyGyal
This reasoning is silly. Should we also say that rock n' roll or classical music is somehow 'white'? Does soul music have roots in black culture? Sure it does. You can say the same thing about rock and classical music having its roots in 'white culture'. Does that mean that whites have some exclusive right to these types of music? Hell no. It would be silly to say otherwise. The same holds true for soul music. Good music is good music, skin color shouldn't matter.
TempestWriter 1 year ago
@TempestWriter rock actually has it's roots in black culture . . . but this isn't a race war about who's better, or what music belongs to who , just as MizzPrettyGyal was saying -- it's ALL American Cultured music now . Estelles point was merely that it is very difficult landing a successful career in soul music when the heads of most record labels are white . you're right, color SHOULDN'T matter, but often times it does .
msrynae 1 year ago
@TempestWriter Rock was a black culture thing too lol stolen music. white people steal everything so wouldnt be suprised if classical music was started by some other race. but yeah stealing is ok tho if your white! :) most ppl dnt care who does the music white or black jus aslongs you show credit for those who brang it through. europeans do it cause they have the media power to do so. jus facts rude boy p.s. Elvis aint the king of pop.
MrKDis 1 year ago
@TempestWriter my reasoning isnt silly, because its not reason i'm conveying,its fact. and i'll sum it up quickly since you never really read what i wrote: FYI -Rock doesn't have its roots in White ppl, rock is born from black ppl as well (GEEZ!!!!). Rock n Roll and Soul Music are derivatives of african American slavery,and i'm not saying it for my health. No one has exclusive rights over creativity and expressionism. The truth is just that. your comment is more of a statement, not a rebuttal.
MizzPrettyPrettyGyal 1 year ago
@MizzPrettyPrettyGyal yes soul music was introduced by black people. I'm sure white soul singers are greatful too. At least I am. Cuz I love it!! Everybody has soul, just not everybody knows how to sing from it!!
SetsailMusic 1 year ago
@SetsailMusic did i say that someone didn't have soul? and did i say only people who can sing soul are allowed to sing it?
MizzPrettyPrettyGyal 1 year ago
I wouldnt say most American music is black perhaps half at most but not most of American music is solely originated from black culture. To say that would be pretty ignorant to all the other forms of music out there.
Danman3ish 1 year ago
@Danman3ish If you can prove that most American music wasnt black to begin with then i'll agree. other than that lets see. America has been "America" since about 1776 right? Ok. who was in America during its virgin youth, its early beginnings..? Africans & Natives! OK, so to begin with what would be called American music, would these ppl not be it? Gotdamnit the Banjo is an African instrument! if you listened to music in 1778, 99.9% chance be played on a fusion of instruments and by slaves.
MizzPrettyPrettyGyal 1 year ago
@MizzPrettyPrettyGyal Well let's see you left out Rock n Roll which is definitely not African theres metal, grunge, techno, country (however I leave country up for debate), punk, Barshop quartet, swing, garage (technically can't be attributed to any one nation or group of people), there are probably alot more but thats all I can think of at the moment. I'm not trying to say there isnt a siginifcant amount of black music out there, nor am I trying to put that music down simply defending
Danman3ish 1 year ago
@Danman3ish Rock n roll is not African?
LMAOOOOOOOO typical whites always trying to revise history
DeportAnchorBabies 1 year ago
@DeportAnchorBabies If you think rock has its origins in black culture you must be smoking good crack. Rock has its origins in Britian dumb shit.
Danman3ish 1 year ago
@Danman3ish Yes it was asshole Rock N Roll started with African American people and varied over the years into R&B and Hip Hop. Stop stereotyping and actually do your research. Because the man who started it all was Chuck Berry A BLACK MAN IN AMERICA and he never gets any damn credit for it. I'm sorry I had to educate your ignorant self but don't spew out ludicrous opinions they get you nowhere. :)
ImSodamBitterSweet 1 year ago
@Danman3ish keep on dreaming idiot,contemporary British music is nothing but a rip off of African American genres
DeportAnchorBabies 1 year ago 2
@Danman3ish What are you talking about? Are you seriously not aware that rock music is rooted in blues and rock n roll, which are both, American genres:
Rock music is a genre of popular music that entered the mainstream in the 1960s. It has its roots in 1940s and 1950s rock and roll, rhythm and blues, country music and also drew on folk music, jazz and classical music (Wiki).
lonelycompany 1 year ago
@Danman3ish
Rock music from the UK started by copying rock from the USA in the 1950's & 60's
The earliest Rock & Roll Music dates back to the 1920's and developed from Blues, Jazz Gospel & Irish Folk music. So I suppose you could say it is mixed-heritage music.
I don't like rock music but at least I know what I'm talking about. Dumbshit!
MaxMisterC 1 year ago
@Danman3ish um you really need to read a history book.
SCordeliaB 11 months ago
@MizzPrettyPrettyGyal finally a comment that is not ignorant on either side
422537jb 1 year ago
@422537jb I appreciate your "listening!"
MizzPrettyPrettyGyal 1 year ago
@MizzPrettyPrettyGyal - I'm a white boy who's been in the music business for over 20 years now, and what you said is SPOT ON!! The music business especially in Europe and Australia have been pushing the popularity of Black soul music, but want it sung through White faces. Money and bad business have corrupted everything it's touched from music to sports. She's right, it's not the artists fault. The board room and the recording studio are a bad mix.
bigtexansfan 11 months ago 5
@MizzPrettyPrettyGyal Its got nothing to do with being black. Its African american music. Blacks aren't a race you fucking idiot. Just because your black doesnt make it your music. Extremely ignorant.
Pomaori 7 months ago
Soul music is American music from the south, while largely black it also includes various forms of white southern music.
Because Estelle is black does not mean she is a natural soul singer as she is British and not American. Soul music is a result of experience not race
lionzion32 2 years ago 24
the original soul music was. However their are many international branches of soul music which emulate the style. if you listen, estelle often sings in an american accent. Estelle sometimes sings in a way that is recreating the tone and vowel sounds of original american soul, therefore it is british soul music.
th3rn 2 years ago
I agree with you 100%.
jlenoconel 2 years ago
@lionzion32 Gosh finally a comment that is not ignorant on either side
422537jb 1 year ago
Take into consideration what Estelle has had to experience while pursuing her career, maybe she has experienced discrimination and maybe still experiencing it, maybe it is not one of those things one can just "GET OVER".
Everyone is entitled to there opinions and some peoples opinions hit very close to the truth if not the truth and it hits nerves and provokes a response.
LYRICALLYPHENOMENAL 2 years ago
Soul, much like rock, isn't a black or white thing. It's a people thing.
enchantedblack 2 years ago 4
back in the day is back in he day - not today
get over it
estelle is just just classless - everyone has soul. whose discriminating now estelle?
missmiaow2009 2 years ago 2
Whats the matter the truth hit a nerve!!!
dcflava74 2 years ago
The 'truth' is Estelle has a chip on her shoulder. I grew up in Sheperds Bush like her and now live in the States. The racial tension that exists in the States does not exist in Britain and I can say that because I have lived in both countries.
Jamelia is an eg of a successful 'Black' British soul singer cos she talented and beautiful, not cos she happens to be black. Estelle is a pop singer she is not in the same league as Duffy and Adele.
missmiaow2009 2 years ago 4
the 'truth' huh? thats bullshit. and what would you know of racial tension anyway? let me guess? racially ambiguous, middle class? liberal? why people gotta take what Estelle said out of context? shussh already!
eight thumbs up? fucking sheep.
Estelle says it as it is. In the UK of today an Omar, Beverly Knight and Lynden David Hall will struggle. I could go on. no real promotion, no understanding of black British soul.
Jamelia? talented and beautiful? the fcuk? step your game up missy
obifromsouthlondon 2 years ago 2
@obifromsouthlondon i agree 100 percent just because estelle is chatting the truth everyone getting really upset
loudandproud18 1 year ago
@missmiaow2009 i disagree i live in shepherds bush and i should know Britain as a whole is racist it may not be in your face racist but its institutional racism where its behind your back i even have people that come over from the USA and say damn Britain is way more racist than USA how do you do it .
loudandproud18 1 year ago
i understand what estelle is tlalkin about. back in the day to have a soulful voice was not popular. black singers had their songs stolen from them and sang in a "softer" version. Now everybody wants to jump on the soul train. I can understand if by experience you can be soulful such as mary j. jasmine sullivan etc I can FEEL THEM. Its always enticing to see a white person with soul. music is for everybody. what i dont get is why are they nominated for music of black origin award? thats too much
NuwaniDeNubianLadyIE 2 years ago
i'm Black and i really like Duffy, Joss Stone, and Amy Winehouse, but i have to admit, i wondered what happened to all the Black British soul singers. But still I like the music coming out of the UK today.
telly06 2 years ago
As far as i know most of them didnt go anywhere, you can still buy their records, the same as most of all the white artists who faded. Take "eternal" for example, they chucked the white girl out of the group then split up whose fault is that ? Never mind, Alexandra Burke is coming up shortly and will probably be the next Leona Lewis. Its not about skintone, its more about what material /songs the artists have.
olsenal 2 years ago
I'd like to believe that its not about the skin tone but I don't. I love the Amy Winehouse's, the Joss Stones' etc but there have been black female artists out there past and present with this sound who never had the chance. If Mica Paris had been white or even mixed I think she would have been a bigger star musically than she became. The music industry both UK and USA has always more readily supported white soul singing talent.
kelikel2 2 years ago
If there were no black artists to have ever been promoted/signed doing soul stylee and only white artists you would have a point but that is not the case. If anything white artists doing soul have been ignored by record companies because it became a stereotype until now. i.e.only black peeps do soul etc.
There would be no beyonce tina turner whitney houston mary j etc , they sold millions.
olsenal 2 years ago
p.s. Take "american boy" thats as pop as it comes. Estelle didnt get anywhere until she went pop, Its like if you are a brit artist and you do a song about america they love it. Its like in the 80`s Kim Wilde "we`re the kids in america"all over again. Sad but true.
olsenal 2 years ago
by the way im White and i really like mary j blige, beyonce and aretha but i have to admit i wonder what the term "sound black" is supposed to mean.Estelle doesnt sound like any of them to me yet they are all black. in fact to me vocally joss stone sounds more like aretha than estelle does. I really cant understand how a persons skintone can affect their vocal cords, take shaheen from britains got talent for example,he sounds more like MJ than MJ did at that age !
olsenal 2 years ago
Comment removed
illj25 2 years ago
Correction, it aint about cos estelle done good in the u.s.a. its just that peeps are a bit bored with the same old excuse being trotted out time and time again blaming skintone on the fact that she didnt do so well in the u.k. There are plenty of black artists done good in the u.k. without going to the u.s.a. Thats why we`all in the u.k. "get so hot on this topic" This is my opinion.
olsenal 2 years ago
What black girls? Black soul in the UK doesn't have longevity.Estelle speaks the truth,unless you are white you don't get the push or backing.I can't think of one black soul female singer who (in your opinion) has done good by Amy winehouse,adele or duffy standards.And Leona doesn't count,she's pop.
Merrylikechristmas 2 years ago
So are you saying that brit soul is racist but pop aint ? Why would estelles brit record company have signed her up in the first place if they had a prob with her skintone ? like "oops shes black, better not promote her too much"" Eternal,mistique, miss dynamite,gabrielle,mica paris,tracy chapman,lisa maffia, heather small,beverley knight, jamelia, shirley bassey all sold millions of records, just cos it aint hip and trendy anymore does that count ?
olsenal 2 years ago
WHERE ARE HALF THOSE BLACK ARTIST NOW? oh yeah and Tracy Chapman is American.
Why are you taking it so personally?And Leona isn't a soul artist,if you knew anything about music or even soul music you'd know she wasn't.Duffy/Adele/Amy etc are pop because their music is popular right now.Black music inundates the charts.But the underlying sound of their music is Soul.White Artists are more viable in the UK,they last longer because their appeal to the market and are novely,if they sound black.
Merrylikechristmas 2 years ago 2
"Sound black " ? to me adele just sounds pure cockney when she sings with an english voice and a london accent. I didnt say that leona was soul anymore than estelle is if you compare them to aretha/mary j and if leona doesnt count cos shes pop like you say then amy/adele/duffy dont count either so estelle has nothing to moan about does she ? I thought american boy was pop tho but thats just me and what does how im taking it have to do with anything?!
olsenal 2 years ago
This is supposed to be multicultural britain not black britain,eveybody is free to have fish and chips or chicken rice and peas or a curry. All this racialisation of music is wrong. Music is supposed to bring peeps together not create barriers, its just music get over it !
olsenal 2 years ago
p.s. I can play that tune as well, a lot of peeps think winehouse,adele and duffy dont count as "soul" artists cos they aint black so go put that in your pipe and smoke it.
olsenal 2 years ago
estelle should fuck off moaning
shes just jealous beacuse shes as successful like them.
And no black people in the press,
Nice one
lewkiksass 2 years ago
What a fool.
She had her chance in 2004 but her songs/style were weak then, that's why she failed.
She went to america and made some friends who sorted her out with some good songs/style. Everyone here liked that first single.
What does she think makes her any more credible a "soul" artist than Duffy or Adele anyway? Oh right, her skin colour. What a mug
thebri2 2 years ago
Who does she think she is?she made one hit and she goin on like a diva!!!lets see if she can survive and b cosistent and make these hits.I would support her if she was humble but she a bitch so i hope she crash and burns
juevenile 2 years ago
Estelle doesn't understand the "way of success".Most people be come successful by doing something wrong or stupid eg. Amy Winehouse does drugs, hence her being in the paper and getting noticed. Also Katie Price, doing things that will get paparazzi going NUTS, such as the time she was flirting with another man in the pub/club in Bristol. Success is all about "upping your game" and Estelle, despite the fact shes a great singer, just does not do it.
lonsdale1161 2 years ago
stupid bitch cries racism because her album isnt doing aswell as she'd like or because there are ther stars who happen to be white whos careers a doing better, im am soooo not a racist but there are more important things going on in the world that estelle could be talking about, get over it!
MellerzC 2 years ago
Correction, There are More important things going on in your world, but not in everyone else's world. Why she gotta be a stupid bitch just cause she's giving out her opinion? In that case you're a fucking Moran and a shit head cause you just gave out your dumb ass opinion. Fuck Face. People are soooooo ignorant.
illj25 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
and you are the cum that your skank of a mother should have swallowed rather than leaving ur father pump his load up her smelly, dirty, crab infested, AIDS ridden cunt to produce an end result of you, die ya fuckin loser! bet ur another cunt that cries racism at every opportunity
MellerzC 2 years ago
Comment removed
illj25 2 years ago
Firstly you thick piece of shit im not british so thanks for proving how much of a fuckin retard you are and secondly i dont hate black people nor did i ever say i did so why dont u re-read the comments before makin up bullshit and makin a bigger spastic out of urself and thirdly your reply was fuckin pathetic, i FUCKIN OWNED you on my previous comment - your reply simply is good enough for me to waste time OWNING you again! mwahahahaha
MellerzC 2 years ago
Comment removed
illj25 2 years ago
omg ur replies are getting better and better - "shit on a plate and eat it" wow thats really good! stupid fuckin yank! once again i have OWNED u with my first comment ans once agin ur reply is pathetic so do urself a favour find the biggest cliff u can and jump off it i will gladly piss on ur grave when its done :)
MellerzC 2 years ago
OMG you got owned by that irish muthafucka,ha ha you yanks aint nuthin
leighton1911 2 years ago
that's sum good dissin buddy fairplay!
leighton1911 2 years ago
so theres an exsample to shut this rasism thing RIGHT up and tbh estell is talkin the truth but also i can see by these coments that when it comes to blacks and whites some reall Talk needs to be put in place coz what ive bin readin makes me doubt if prejugdest towards each other is gone or if its just kept to your self :|
lemarlf 2 years ago
can i say people are reading into this wrongwhite people are geing defensive because a dig is being taken at there culture and black people are get more defensive coz the white people are right listen estell is sayin comercial soul WHICH IS ADELLE DUFYY dnt dissagre wikipeidia soul and youl know what im ona bout shessayin theindrstry dosnt make time for real soul which just happens to be black peoples forte dont get me wrong joss stone is real soul thats why she didnt make it big in the uk etha
lemarlf 2 years ago
she's not even that good.
liamanewton 2 years ago
Totally. I don't even consider her a soul singer, cause she doesn't have "soul". Her music is boring. She sounds like just another generic R&B chic.
gwynthfair 2 years ago
yep i do agree. She deffo isnt soul, R & B isnt even rhythem and blues n e more tis just rhymes and beats now.
liamanewton 2 years ago
Did u hear her album...she has alot of soul
FlawdaBway 2 years ago
I don't think she's a soul singer either that doesn't mean her points aren't valid.
Ahnyanka 2 years ago
how do we know this is even true.. we havnt actually heard Estelle herself make this comment
pattiCake93 2 years ago
yeah but then i wonder why anyone would post on youtube saying that estelle is right if they hadnt heard her make the comment.
olsenal 2 years ago
For real man for real! If any British Soul artist wants to make it you got to get the fuck out of this place,Omar,Don E,Mica Paris,Root Manouva,Floetry....can you see the pattern?
nyikaandthepeople 2 years ago
yeah i can, though all the peeps i mentioned were mostly only succesful in the uk and estelle is moanin about only white artists being promoted, how come they all done good then ? and if black artists are being passed over, how come estelles british record company didnt sign a white artist instead of her ?
olsenal 2 years ago
Of course she's right! I work in the industry. Time and time they pass over beautiful Black singers who could sing Duffy and Adele OFF THE PAGE, because they'd rather promote White singers who sing `black.' In my opinion that's like women who take botox trying to look 25 when everyone can see they're fifty - just not bona fide!
irisferguson 2 years ago 2
its hard to believe anything the media say anymore, but this one i absolutely do not believe.
blackanese18 2 years ago
Hahaha, this is interesting.Duffy won an award over Estelle the other night at the Brits, and estelle looked so pissed off. Now I know why, bitterness because Duffy's making it big in both the UK and USA.
EDAM2 2 years ago 4
Racist bitch
macarion 2 years ago
Estelle is right Lamaar is the UKs brightest male singing taleent but his label dont know what to do with him. adele and Duffy do have talent but thier fame rests in them filling the amy winehouse gap and that itself is all based on the 60s soul sound that winehouse has rehashed a black singer with the same talent wouldnt get such fame imo it will be interesting to see if these singers can have the same fame without it.
damieandark 2 years ago 5
Lemar has no edge or charisma. Adele and Winehouse actually have some visible personality
thebri2 2 years ago
Adele is very talented as is winehouse but to say they have more edge or charisma is absurd Winehouse is basically a crack/alchoholic and Adele is a slightly overweight girl is that edge and charisma these days?
damieandark 2 years ago 3
Who is this idiot? And who cares what she thinks? She looks like a horse.
turxxx 2 years ago
Then you must be the horse's ass.
ChoctawCreek 2 years ago 5
You must be a fan of this nobody.
turxxx 2 years ago
hey,there's a lot of good brit singers.check out gypwin
gypwin 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
cool sound but it sounds like shes doing chrissette michelle, whats up with the copy sound,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,first colby callait copied corrine bailey rae's sound now this.
the music biz is full of copycats
cartiergl 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
cool sound but it sounds like shes doing chrissette michelle, whats up with the copy sound,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,first colby callait copied corrine bailey rae's sound now this.
the music biz is full of copycats
cartiergl 3 years ago
I think it is hilarious she had to give Adele her grammy tonight.
megerber 3 years ago 2
I dont! It even made me uncomfortable
sparks199 3 years ago 2
(3) Great black singers are everywhere; any black church in the US can attest to that
unidentifiedmime 3 years ago
Sam Phillips said:"If I could find a white man with the Negro sound and the Negro feel, I could make a billion dollars"
- And this was one of the men who launched the career of Elvis so he knew what he was talking about it and still rings true today; Amy is pretty good but whoever said she was the New Queen of Soul needs to be smacked; Joss Stone and Duffy are whack; and Adele wouldn't be getting this attention if she was a black neo-soul artist; I'd choose Ledisi over her anyday
unidentifiedmime 3 years ago
I Agree. To be honest, I Think Estelle is a one hit wonder with ''American Boy''. She's released various singles after that & they have all floped. Sadly I Think people just bought Her album ''Shine'' because of the success of American Boy. Dont get me wrong she has other great songs too. But it seems Estelle is SO FAR a one hit wonder.
keironlynch 3 years ago
I don't have a problem with white soul singers i support them
I am a fan of Duffy, Adele, Amy Winehouse etc the only one i am not to crazy about is Joss Stone because to me she seems so fake and manufactured.
I don't dig the hippie soul chick image because it seems like she doesn't have it naturally.
her singin technique is poor it seems like he forces her voice more than just sing it from the heart,.
I can see why the UK is tired of her
delirous8 3 years ago
true joss stone is a little funny with her voice lol.....but I do love Amy tho =)
milz911 3 years ago
yeah but joss stone "tell me what we`re gonna do now" is right up there for me ! its more of a more tuneful bluesy janis joplin stylee than a gospelly/soul feel.
olsenal 3 years ago
you are so right...... that is the only and favorite song of mine from Joss Stone lol
milz911 3 years ago
she has done a couple of good tunes but i still won't consider her a serious soul singer
delirous8 3 years ago
i like Amy
to me she is real deal the same thing with Duffy becuase she has it naturally
I am not a racial biased when it comes down to soul music if you have soul you have soul it does not matter what color you are
to me Joss Stone just seems a poser more than just a natural singer
delirous8 3 years ago
Yeah I get what she's saying but here she is saying why ain't there as many black people doing the soul in the UK as opposed to white soul singers as though there was a kind of white monopoly on the scene.Many black musicians have gained ledgend status on the white music scene. Nat King Cole, Chuck berry, little richard, Hendrix, BB King, m jackson, prince etc . It don't matter what colour you are it's more of a matter of are you good enough to sock it to um? Hope it works out for her.
superbadbrad 3 years ago 2
Well said olsenal.Just cos you're black it don't mean you have instant soul.The Americans have their soul singers and we have are soul singers.Estelle could only dream of having 'soul' like past great black American soul artists had.Stop whingeing Estelle cos if you have real soul you have not to be afraid of white soul imposter's like Adele and Duffy.
superbadbrad 3 years ago
innit tho ? back when soul was emerging where were all the afro carribeans doing soul back then ? we had millie small " my boy lollipop" the equals "viva bobby jo" and cy grant with the banana boat song as well as some great ska and reggae. We all grew up listening to american soul and afro carribeans have no more right to do that style than anglo saxon brits. Anyone giving thumbs down to me saying that must be racist. We need to kick race out of music like they are trying to do with football.
olsenal 3 years ago
thats not what Estelle is trying to say, soul is deeply routed from African and black history, the thing is her label was investing in her like they were for amy whinehouse or duffy.....she's not whining shes telling the truth, shes had better success by signing with an American label instead a british label! so really think about whats being said... its some way discriminatory.
milz911 3 years ago 4
it is true there are lot of good and excellent soul singers in the UK the only who came close to getting some good status was Beverly Knight and Seal in some ways
but all the rest of them are underrated
Floetry had to sign to an American music label just so they can get a good deal
delirous8 3 years ago 3
i cant see how estelle comes to the conclusion that because she thinks amy and duffys labels promote them more than estelles british label promoted her down to racial discrimination, sign with a better label then innit ? estelle had success with 1980, surely if estelles label was racially biased against black peeps they wouldnt have signed her up in the first place.
olsenal 3 years ago
Thats exactly what she did....she went to another label!! duhhh! thats why she's really famous and successful now...its just the fact lol
milz911 3 years ago
yeah but u said it was in some way disciminatory, thats nothing to do with racial discrimination is it ? what have white artists got to do with that ? surely if estelles "not very good" british label was racially biased against black peeps they would have signed a white artist.
olsenal 3 years ago
Well I have noticed that the music industry is mostly owned by whites. And if Black people aren't talking about sex, drugs, or money they don't want it to air. They want blacks to come off as greedy people who are these bad people who kill and blah blah blah. In an interview that singer Trey Songz did he said that everytime he comes up with a good song that is inspirational his label just pushes it to the side which is why he is so underated.
DatBitch009 3 years ago 4
What happened to trey songz also happens to white artists in the sense that labels wont release what artists want them to. U have 2 admit there have been many successful black brit artists who r not gangsta, what about soul 2 soul, jamelia, ms dynamite, beverley knight, gabrielle, eternal, mystique etc from way back right up to alexandra burke.
olsenal 3 years ago 2
a few more not gangsta, shirley bassey,imagination, musical youth, dizee rascal (or maybe thats sex drugs and money) and groups with black peeps in them, s club 7 blue,sugar babes that new group the saturdays and dont get me started on all the not gangsta americans, beyonce, mary j, whitney, aretha, tina turner, prince blah blah blah i wont bore u anymore....
olsenal 3 years ago 3
Great points!
pakkala888 3 years ago
thats an interesting point, i can see that black peeps can relate to soul as its "deeply rooted from african and black" "american" history, also the english language is deeply rooted in white british history so its only natural that white brit kids can relate to something expressed in that language as well. Its the same with rap, that is influenced by english poetry and rhyme, kids have always learned rhymes from an early age, there is more than one influence at work here.
olsenal 3 years ago
People in the UK are just now figuring this out? Of course if you want to be sucessful you go to USA
epicdeuce 3 years ago
i know i'v notic a few white ppl comeing from ova c's makeing it big it makes u wonder how many blk r ove there trying to get their feet wet..
tymurren5 3 years ago
I personally think that what Estelle probably said in reality was nothing as shocking as the press made it out to be.
t1bla 3 years ago
I lived in the UK for 13 yrs and remember alot of good black british that was really good. Some have made to the US on one song or album like a Mica Paris, Omar, Craig David or Mark Morrison. Then groups like Soul II Soul and Loose Ends have success in 80s-90s. Yet are some like Massive Attack, Gabrielle, China Black or Beverly Knight never got any attention at all.
jambry3 3 years ago
SHE needs 2 stop usin the race card.. she needs 2 get ova it
Najma90 3 years ago 3
actually it IS their fault they are successful artists...
hilsdinfar 3 years ago
It's not their fault they are successful artists. If you don't like something then change it.
vegasbunny1 3 years ago
true that...estelle don't give two fucks about what u say to her about her looks etc. The girl has talent and she does sing true RnB music. All those Amy winehouse and Duffy...whatever...who do you think makes them sing the why they do now. For those who are not enlightened...yes black music;gospel, soul, jazzzzz. Yes we make it better. So my dear Estelle you keep doing the good work
ebaandegusi 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
no she dont, mary j and american artists sing the true r + b not british/british/carribean/white brits, back in the day when otis and aretha were doing their stuff what did we have ? cy grant with the banana boat song ! stop trying to steal the gospel/soul from the americans and claiming it as your own just because of skin tone and be true to your own stylee, calypso, reggae and folk music.
olsenal 3 years ago
youre completely right here. Its pathetic they want to claim it their own
meekmop 3 years ago
Thanks for saying so, i see i got a few thumbs down for saying that but its true, afro carribeans have no more claim to soul music than white kids do, we need to kick race out of music. Back when soul was emerging carribeans were doing calypso, ska, reggae and we had acts like millie singing "my boy lollipop" or the equals doing "viva bobby jo" where were all the afro carribeans doing soul back then ?
olsenal