why is it that every time I come to watch some good music, there is always someone bitchin about who is better or what is what.........suck it ...........all of u need to shut yo' shiiiit and spend your time playing music rather than ruiniing it for everyone else................pricks.
You obiously have to say a lot of bad stuff about vinnie and how he plays songs with certain artists. If al the things you said about vinnie are true, wich they are not, i wonder why artists like jeff beck and herbie hancock, who are both top musicians, would ask vinnie to play with them anyway.
You clearly do not have much respect and understanding for most music vinnie plays. But that does not matter since i have met more fools like you and they were all unconvincible…
Oooh. Nice upload. Metal is ruined by bad perms, dull-arsed computer engineers, infantile fatbodies in leather pants, sticky beer carpets, unbridled flatulance, drunkardness, the music and whatnot. But talent can't be denied.
and as for the argument about Vinnie- come on man he's arguebly the best in the world! Just listen to seven days; probably the finest mix of insane technical ability and tasteful playing you will ever hear!
as for "rap/ metal music offends me" that is just nonsense how can you, as a musician, stereotype an entire genre?
oh yeah mr. ONENESS100 im sorry to inform u, vinnie has played with megadeth in their system has failed album.. see the irony of jazz artist willing to work with metal artists. if u call that a fad genre dont compare that to a fag like urself.. i know vinnie didnt take metal as just a sound of pure noise that causes migranes.. and to think that metal dominated 1970-1990s it proves that this stuff lasts long.. metal here in our place has a big audience my frend
Vinnie IS amazing and I love him as a drummer. Sometimes he just isn't that coherent with the rest of the band. And this song, man, it's boring as youknowwhat played by this band? I guess I'm kinda criticizing the groups he plays with. The band's generity gives him the spotlight. Of course there are acceptions, but it goes to enjoying the drumming more than the music, so to speak..
Sorry to butt in like this, but I want to inject: Enough with the qualitative relativism already!
"If it's right for you then it's right for you". No!
Sometimes people are just wrong! You can not call Vinnie a B grade drummer and expect to get away with it. Such a person does not know what he/she is talking about. Subjective taste is, of course, a whole 'nother matter.
Oneness100 is right, but the whole debate seems really pointless :)
Vinnie is a great drummer indeed but I've yet to find an album he plays on which I've enjoyed listening to. I liked him playing with Corea and Patitucci but Cobham.. Oh man the mahavishnu records not to even mention his solo albums. I enjoy them :)
I guess it's an obvious statement but sometimes vinnie just has that same fault tha Weckl has: Too techical, too muc playing hehe..
Oh, OK, I guess you would know...... Hey, I just call like I hear it.
I just don't get involved with listening to the giagantic egos of metal music. It just isn't musical. It gives me a headache and I just can't get behind it. It is just fad music anyway, that stuff won't last long. Imagine senior citizens headbanging to Megadeth in their 70's at the retirement homes? Yeah, right, like that's going to actually happen. Kids with either grow out of the rebelious phase one way or another.
your fucking stupid if you think metal isnt musical...especially a band like megadeth who was very influenced by jazz in her beginning... and btw metal is still popular since black sabbath came out,thats 40 years of millions still loving this music in all ages. try listening to bands like pantera,sabbath and megadeth too. i agree theres allot of crap bands,cant see why pepole would think a band like megadeth or pantera isnt musical
if u think it dat way then ur not a musician at all.. music is a product of persons emotions, interpretations and ideas into musical notes and sounds... any genre should not be biased because every music that we play is a product of pure emotion and imaginative creativity.. ur very narrow my frend.. and even grand mama's play death metal drums here at utube, so 80 yr olds can appreciate metal.. i knew many jazz artists here, and they respect every genre, they criticize u if u dont
Obviously you haven't studied about the psychology behind music. Every song, musician has various levels of consciousness and emotion behind it. I don't want to listen to music with anger and hatred involved with it because I find it offensive and not uplifting. Metal, certain punk, Gangster rap and various other forms of music are NOT uplifting and created emotions to me, the listener, that create bad energy. There have been studies that plant life (like humans) respond good/bad to music.
There are supreme musicians out there that have mentioned that there are good forms and bad forms of music.
What Vinnie is doing with this classic song is just a second rate version that doesn't have the heart and soul of the original recording done by better players that understand how to play with heart. Metal has no heart/soul, it is just plain anger which I don't wish to be part of.
When I travel and I hear a car with rap music cranked up to offensive levels, me the listener, gets offended by it.
Get off your pedastal and go study more, you are obviously not of the level of understanding with music and how it can offend people. I don't like listening to a second rate version of a classic song and this it is at the same level, because it isn't. If you had this band on the same stage as the members of the original recording, this band would be the opening act.
byt the way, there's really a psychology with it.. but its very narrow to generalize things.. lets say that metal really cracks ur head, u tend to generalize it too much that u simply summed up everything, not only that, disguisting a genre that is way beyond history and forgetting to show respect at it.. we can never deny that it can provide bad energy but generalizing everything which can provide bad facts can produce in ur mind a wrong perception of the truth..thats psychology
Not all musicians respect all forms of music. I don't care if everyone agrees with me. If I don't like a particular song or music genre because it evokes bad emotions, that is MY feelings on it. I want to listen to music that makes me happy, relaxes me, uplifts me emotioinally or creates some form of positive emotion. If something offends or annoys me, then I can decide to NOT listen to it and to NOT enjoy it and to NOT appreciate it. IMO, this version of Nitesprte is second rate.
u cant call urself a musicians that doesnt respect all forms of music.. if u dont respect all forms of music never call urself a fucking musician.got it
and, if a certain music doesn't comfort u, annoys u, who can force u to appreciate it??? no body of course, but it doesn't give u the right to say all those shit about metal or whatever, u need to study music little boy, and broaden u twisted narrow head
I would suspect every well-respected Conservatory has Teachers that can tell you an aweful lot about playing technique, harmonic structures etc...and thats all you really need! You go to a teacher or to Conservatory to learn the Craft! The Music has to come out of yourself then...and if you use your Craft to play Jazz, Funk or Metal is up to you
Based on what information? That I don't think that metal rock is a high quality form of musical genre? That's NOT arrogance.
Based on the fact that I don't think that Vinnie is NOT a jazz/fusion master like people like BC, and others that HAVE a vast discography of classic jazz/fusion recordings/performances? The fact that Vinnie doesn't play someone else's song as good as the one that created the first version that IS a classic performance like Steve Gadd?
well its ur opinion, in this case, keep that to ur fucking self.. im a jazz freak and a metal freak in the same time.. even though metal doesnt have the all the groove that jazz have,just some of it, still metal has produced quality music that people of all ages still adored
How can be people who even dare to criticize the mastership of any of these musicians? I don't get it... or you are very special to have the right to express such a critic to Vinnie or you are very stupid!!! Who cares if he's Billy Cobham or not? who cares if he's an A- player (which is an envious observation coming from a retarded) ... wouldn't you love to play at least a 50% of what he's able to do? C'mon guys!! Live the music, enjoy it, let it feed your souls... bitters forbidden!
The problemo is that Vinnie on this video is recreating an absolute classic Gadd performance of a great Chick Corea song, but the way it is being played is sterile, stiff and it just doesn't come close to the magic that was performed by Gadd. I've heard many recordings of Vinnie trying to play a Billy Cobham or Mahavishnu song and he doesn't even come close. OK? And I read a lot of posting by people think he is playing better than the original drummer. Sorry. I'm not buying it.
I don't think someone on Vinnie's level, or any professional drummer for that matter, is interested in "recreating" original performances. He plays it his way, his interpretation. He's not in a cover band at a hotel bar, you know.
What do you think this version of Nitesprite is? He is playing the same freaking arrangement as the original.
When he plays with Jeff Beck, they attempt to play Eternity's Breath and do a piss poor job of it. VInnie has done that Maha tribute album which was pathetic. When he plays Stratus with Jeff Beck, Vinnie's version sucks.
Sorry, but I am calling it how I see it. He played Freedom Jazz Dance with Ferrante and Haslip in LA and he trashed the song. He was hacking it up.
Playing the same arrangement doesn't mean he has to play the exact original part. I'm sure Gadd didn't expect him to. That would be weird.
So I get that you don't like Vinnie's style, and apparently are no Jeff Beck fan either, but trying to call him out as a B- player is silly, given his tremendous skills and standing in the drumming community.
First off, I've seen Jeff Beck with Bernard Purdie, Tony Smith, and Simon Phillips in the '70s. Personally, these concerts were far better than what Beck has recently been putting out. Vinnie just seems out of place when they play a MO or Cobham song. Simon Phillips played the original songs on There and Back and played them better than Vinnie. Tony Smith played the B by B/Wired songs just fine. As for what Gadd thinks, I don't know. I said between B- and B+ depending on the gig.
I feel the groove haha. vinnie plays perfect, you just have to know how to keep track of what he's doing. it took me a long time to "get" his playing even though I still don't understand all of it.
Why take something that is already on the Internet (ie. at Drummerworld), then repost it on YouTube. Makes absolutely no sense to me ... not to mention copyright issues and the fact that permission has not been granted to you to do this.
I'll take the original recording any day of the week. While it is difficult to play this chart, it's an example of how great session players can mimic someone else. But Vinnie's little solo kinda sucked at the end and his drums don't seem to be tuned accordingly. It's hard to play another copy of a classic song/performance/recording. But I'll give em an A for effort, B for Performance.. Plus, there is not guitar on the original recording. I love Tom Scott, but Joe Farrell is Legendary.
you're entitled to your opinion, i would say that vinnie is a legendary master artist, whatever you would class that is. I would definatel say that he is one of the most influential drummers and musicians of the last hundred years.
One of the most influential drummers/musicians? I don't think so. When I think about influential, I think of Williams, Cobham, Gadd, Purdie, Elvin, Blakey, Rich. I think that the Colaiuta's and Weckl's are the latest generation, but they don't have the heart and soul of these other master drummers. Colaiuta's solo album wasn't even close to a classic album. Even guys like Stewart Copeland and Manu Katche are more influential and have played/created more classic material that Vinnie.
look at a different sphere though, on joe's garage alone vinnie inspired thousands. I would say that vinnie is just as influential as many others. Rhythm magazine rated colaiuta before williams, copeland and cobham, not something that i would agree with, but theres another opinion.
Frank Zappa writes all of the drum parts and Vinnie played what was written. Vinnie can read his ass off. Personally, I liked earlier Zappa. One Size Fits All era. Pre-Vinnie/Pre-Bozzio era. I just like the melody lines and his writing from that era more. Let me know when Vinnie wins the Downbeat award. then I'll take notice.
He may be popular, but what grooves did he create that influenced other drummers? Joe's Garage was not an influential album for me. For some it was, but It wasn't for me. It was a Rock Opera.
I don't think that groove is such a big deal. Billy Cobham's work with Mahavishnu is legendary and practically ALL modern drummers (including Vinnie) use Billy has a drummer to study, especially the odd time signature stuff.
that was a classic pop album.. I don't know about it being one of the fifty most influential drumming albums. Maybe for a pop album... Was this for current albums or of all time? What were the demographics of the age group for those voting?
If you listen to Vinnie's playing, he tries to cop a lot of what Stewart Copeland and Manu Katche did since they played a lot of what Sting was doing before Ten Summoners Tales. Yeah, the 5/4 groove is a classic groove that Sting helped Vinnie create the groove. The rest of TST was either straight ahead basic grooves or the odd time country groove. But one pop album does not make Vinnie a master. he has to have a HUGE catalog of classic recordings, which he doesn't have. OK?
You want to look at the work of a REAL master. Go check out Billy Cobham. He has worked with Legendary jazz greats on Legendary albums, helped define fusion/modern drumming with Mahavishnu, did solid work with his own bands creating some absolute classic drum grooves/fills that are widely used/sampled in rock, pop, funk, jazz, fusion drumming. He has won numerous DownBeat Awards, etc. He invented the Octobans, the Gong Drum, which all kinds of top players use.
most widely read drum magazine in the uk. also i am not trying to discredit anyone, i love cobham's playing, and i do a cover of red baron with my fusion trio, but i firmly believe that vinnie is one of the most influential drummers of our time, while you do not, and nothing i say will change your mind or vice versa, shall we agree to disagree?
Oh, well, one thing that I have noticed through the years of the drum magazines is that they aren't as good. There is way too much marketing and not as much substance in the articles. Also, the readers are mostly kids that are into rock, metal, music rather than jazz/world music. I just think that the mentality of kids today is different than it was 30 years ago. Red Baron, Stratus are two all time classic fusion/funk songs. Billy is Hall of Fame level, and Vinnie hasn't earned that level.
i would call myself more of a jazz/funk/fusion fan than rock and metal, but even if kids, and drummers these days are more into metal and rock that doesnt change the fact that colauita is influential to them. as i said before im not being at all disparaging towards cobham.
cobham has won downbeat awards, invented the octoban and gong drum, while vinnie has been voted best drummer by modern drummer, collaborated with zildjian to create the A Custom line and has played with everyone from Bill Evans to Stong via Herbie Hancock.
Vinnie hasn't been on a single classic jazz/fusion recording. The stuff he has done with Chick Corea, Herbie Hancock are not at the top of the list for those artists in terms of recordings. Cobham has been on SHIT load of LEGENDARY RECORDINGS FROM MILES DAVIS, McCoy Tyner,HERBIE, JOE FARRELL, MAHAVISHNU, SOLO ALBUMS, RON CARTER. When Herbie plays with Billy, their names equal billing, not so with Vinnie, he is just a sideman. Vinnie is overrated. Great drummer, but overrated.
I don't see Billy Cobham doing a Vinnie Colaiuta song, but I see Vinnie "trying" to do a Billy Cobham song, and hacking it up compared to the original version.
This version of Nitesprite is not as good as the original. I'll take the original recording any day of the week.
notice that you are watching a vinnie colaiuta video, it is not tagged by any other. search for vinnie and his name comes up for videos with herbie, but simply with the name vinnie colaiuta-herbie hancock. we are never going to agree on this are we?
That's who posted it. It is actually a Tribute Band Concert to Steve Gadd, I think. Steve Gadd was on the original recording of this song and Vinnie is hacking it to pieces. The whole thing is real "watered down" sounding of a classic jazz/fusion song by Chick Corea. But most of the kids these days don't have the original recording to compare it to. They think that Vinnie's version is better. Yeah, right.
If I took all of the Vinnie videos on YouTube, there are only a couple that are decent. This does not make me more of a Vinnie fan. Vinnie knows this song from when it first came out on the market. If he doesn't something's wrong. Weckl could probably play as good if not better and not have to sight read it unless it was a different arrangement of the song.
from a review of his playing on Chick Corea's Live at the Blue Note Tokyo - ".....the finest example of acoustic drumset playing ever recorded". How would an overrated drummer get that kind of accolade??
well, the kids that are into rock/metal music over jazz and the old school forms of fusion don't really have what I would consider an informed frame of mind..... That's the problem with the industry. Too many uninformed listeners that do the voting. That one of the reasons why I don't subscribe to some of these magazines. I don't wish to buy into the metal /rock music which is what they are promoting.
why is that not an informed frame of mind? because people do not prefer the type of music that you and i enjoy to rock and metal does not mean that their views are any less valid. i think that these people's points of view are equally as valid as ours. while i would rather listen to the inner mounting flame than the latest trivium record that does not make anyone else's opinions less valid.
It's not that they don't prefer it, it is a lot to do with not growing up on it, not being exposed to it, or the metal rock bands get more hype behind it.
Jazz/Fusion/classical music have always taken back seat to rock/pop music and usually the more educated about various types of music, the more they don't listen to heavy rock/metal music. So, yes, I believe that if someone is not exposed to these other forms of music to the point where they understand it, then they're uninformed and invalid.
What happens to a person's perspective if they haven't heard the recordings or have seen these other drummers play back in the 70's? For those that haven't seen Billy live back in the early 70's and they are comparing Vinnie to him? If Vinnie could remake an old classic fusion song as good as the original, let me know, I haven't heard him do that. Shouldn't a top drummer be able to do that?
vinnie isnt a leged like cobham yet 'cause he isnt as old as them, his career began years later, the legendary fusion recordings r from the late 60s-70s when fusion was new n vinnie couldnt be on 'em cause he wasnt available. personally, I like modern drummers better, but putting aside our taste n likes, one cannot deny that vinnie is a great musician even if he hasnt been on a classic fusion record. hes consider great by a fair amount of ppl w/knowledge so in general hes great
You might not consider him an influence but that doesnt mean he's not great, and he does have a heart and a soul is only that u cant perceive it. for example, I dont like Cobham, it doesnt mean hes terrible n that Im retarded, its a matter of taste not deform choromosomes. maybe in the future vinnie will b old enough to b a legend n maybe some of 'his' records would b consider fusion classics regarless of what u say, u arent the one to decide, ur opinion counts but thats just 1 vote
Obviously, you weren't there 35+ years ago when Fusion was being originated. I was. The "fusion" drumming of today by the second/third generation players isn't as good. They just don't have that "IT" factor. Sorry. Vinnie is a great drummer, but when it comes to fusion playing, he doesn't impress me like the drummers from the first generation. There are PENTY of guys that, IMO, are better fusion players that aren't well known.
Gerry Brown and Tony Smith are way better fusion cats and both have recorded plenty of classic fusion material, but they don't get the hype that Vinnie is getting.. I've seen both live back in the 70's and both had WAY more heart and soul to their playing and they both SWUNG their grooves. As old and as experienced as Vinnie is, he should be smacking the crap out of this song... He shouldn't have to sight read this song. He's probably heard it a million times.
maybe you need to update ur PC to see what these modern drummers r all about. Music's infinite and as time goes by new ideas arrive. Cobham is just a legend, there's a lot more to drumming that cobham's old licks, maybe u just felt in love with the way cobham plays, and love can make you blind, you cant expect everything to sound like Cobham. there is better vocabulary nowadays. But I might b wrong cause im a young man talking to old oneness100.
Vinnie is in his 50's. Cobham is in his 60's. He isn't that much younger than Cobham. He just wasn't playing with the heavy fusion cats in the early 70's. Heck Narada is only about a year or two older than Vinnie is, and Narada has played on several classic Mahavishnu albums, Jeff Beck album. Alphonso Johnson's first solo album, Weather Report, Jaco Pastorius, so age isn't what the problem is. Vinnie, FWIW, just isn't at legendary status due to his discography.
OPINION: I think cobham doesnt even seem hispanic wheres el sabor, hes like a paradiddle machine. Im hispanic just in case u ask. n think he doesnt sound very clean even though hes a machine. I dont get enjoyment out of Cobham. but thats just me. n I always try to b aware of being open minded towards different drummers. I like some mahavishnu songs. but I enjoy more the other instruments. I remember watching his vids, i just couldnt enjoy it. maybe I need to listen to cobham again...
Cobham was born in Panama. But what does that got to do with anything.
I am talking fusion drumming, which is a form of music that was created in the 70's by Mahavishnu and they are considered by a lot of music authorities to be one of the top ground breaking FUSION bands. But thats before your time I guess.
The Legendary drummers were Legendary for the discography they had created. Some created more legendary performances during their life. For drummers like Cobham, White, Williams, Jones, Gadd, etc., they just had legendary performances early in their lives and they had plenty of them. Vinnie has lots of skills, but he has not achieved Legendary status, IMO. Vinnie's one and only solo album didn't do well. It was disappointing. I just think he is being overhyped.
juanbarros88, if you saw Billy Cobham play with Mahavishnu in the 70's, you would be saying the same thing I am saying. As far as fusion is concerned, Vinnie is a still in baby land. People are overhyping VInnie is all I am saying. I would say that Vinnie is a B to B+ player. Some stuff, he is an A- player. Let me know when Vinnie gets a Downbeat award.
I said B to a B+ player. Nothing wrong with a B or B+ and sometimes a A- player depending on what and with whom he is playing with. I just have stringent requirements. That's all.
With Fusion playing, I don't think he is an A player all of the time. Sorry. To me, Vinnie tries to mimic other players and doesn't always nail it. He does a lot of overplaying or he just doesn't capture the FEEL of the song. What fusion recordings has Vinnie done that is an absolute classic?
they rehearsed the same day of the show and they were reading during the show...why you don't try to do that?! What fusion recording did you play that I know? check Vinnie web site and maybe you can find some staff. After you said certain things i really think you don't know what music is.
I read your comment about Vinnie and the band sight reading and rehearsing that same day, but the thing is that Vinnie and others have probably been listening to the ORIGINAL version for YEARS and have probably practiced to it. Gadd,just played a magical performance. It's hard to duplicate the original at the same level. Realistically I could do 85% of that song without sight reading it, but I wouldn't put my performance out there. Why mess with a masterpiece?
I think Vinnie can play anything cobham plays. I think vinnie's vocabulary has more content and Vinnie is an update of those old fusion drummers, n there a lot modern drummers that have something else(new) to offer. Maybe Vinnie just dont like playing it exactly the way cobham or whoever did(not talking about specific songs), 'cause he might like his own stuff better, n maybe thats how he feels it, there a need for individual musical expression w/in the musicians. doing exact replicas is....
No he can't. I've heard VInnie play several Cobham songs and Mahavishnu songs and he can't play them like Billy did. I've heard Simon Phillips plays old Cobham songs better than Vinnie, but still not with the same feel. Cobham has a unique feel and approach.
not being old doesnt mean u cant play. Vinnie wasnt in any classic fusion record because he wasn't available at the time. But maybe some of his records would become classics in the future. Regardless of his awards or records you are no1 to denied that he's is one of the best. many people that know about music say Vinnie's great , others just dont understand n is also a matter of taste.
among the monsters there r no best, so u can say that cobham > vinnie is a fact. I dont like Cobham
I am not talking just about OLD classic fusion albums, I am talking about ANY classic. An album can come out tomorrow and be considered a classic. I would say that Vinnie is a great drummer, but he hasn't been on enough classic albums. Sting's Ten Summnors' Tales is a classic, but that's all that I can really consider. Vinnie can't even play a classic version of a classic song that Gadd, Cobham, etc. already did. OK?
again those facts dont matter. his career aint over yet but even If he doesnt reach that point u are talking about, he would be still consider one of the best among the greatest. I bet he can play replicas, he worked with Zappa, he is an educated musician, he can hear, write the rhythms down (which are less complex than his stuff) n play them. I think he plays more complex stuff than the 1s u mentioned. what he wont be able to do is to think like them while playing, he has a mind of his own
Working with Zappa? Zappa is a difficult music to play, but Zappa has had tons of drummers in and out of that band and sight-reading Zappa drum charts is a must, but there are plenty of guys that can do that. Vinnie wasn't the only Zappa drummer.
"tons of drummers in and out" of Zappa's band is an overstatement. Let's see - in reverse order: Wackerman, Vinnie, Bozzio, Chester Thompson/Ralph Humphrey, Jim Gordon, Aynsley Dunbar, Jimmy Carl Black. That's only eight.
I would consider Joe's Garage (Zappa) and Secrets (Alan Holdsworth) classics, and Vinnie's on both of them. Oh, and Document (Karizma), Live at the Blue Note Tokyo (Chick Corea), Jing-Chi (w/Robben Ford and Jimmy Haslip), and Nightwalker (Gino Vannelli) are pretty high up there.
Joe's Garage had Terry Bozzio as well, so why wasn't Vinnie the ONLY drummer? Plus, this was a transcribed Rock Opera., not what Mahavishnu was doing. Can Vinnie play Mahaishnu songs as well as Cobham? NOPE, not even in the same league. So sorry...
Vinnie is the ONLY drummer on Joe's Garage. Bozzio contributed some vocals - no drums. Besides, what difference does that make anyway? Is Gadd's performance on Steely Dan's "Aja" diminished because he's not the only drummer on the recording?
I did not, and would not, compare Mahavishnu's recordings to Zappa's. I was listing a 'classic' recording that Vinnie's on.
Joe's Garage wasn't one of Zappa's most notable albums. His most notable albums were Apostrophe, One Size Fits All, and Roxy and Elsewhere. Vinnie wasn't on any of those albums was he? NOPE. So Sorry.
Could Cobham play Joe's Garage or Alan Holdsworth's Secrets as well as Vinnie? Probably not. Your argument is silly. They are two different drummers with different strengths and weaknesses. Why does everything need to be quantified and prioritized?
Can Vinnie play Mahavishnu as well as Billy? NOT EVEN A COMPETITION. I'll bet Cobham could play Zappa and Holdsworth, but Cobham isn't much into progressive rock, it's not as soulful. It's more techinical and doesn't swing or have as much funkiness to it. Cobham didn't need to prove himself playing with Holdsworth or Zappa, he already broke the mold with Mahavishnu and was doing his own solo albums making CLASSICS.
Have you heard Vinnie's renditions of MO songs? They are not even close to the original recordings, let alone what Cobham did in live performances. Vinnie doesn't have the same intensity, speed, endurance, or sensibilities to play those songs with the same passion. Sorry, but Cobham with MO just was too insane for words. But unfortunately, you missed those days.........
He just plays them differently. What would be the point of copying Cobham's parts? Vinnie has his own sound and style, so of course it's not going to sound just like Cobham.
You don't know me or how old I am. And I listen to Birds of Fire and Inner Mounting Flame pretty often.
I am 38. I did not see the original MO live. I have listened to their records a lot. I have seen Cobham live with his own band. Just because I didn't see them live doesn't mean I am not fully aware of their material.
Cobham defined fusion drumming, been on more legendary albums than Vinnie. OK? It's real simple and you just don't understand that aspect of what makes a Legendary drummer versus a great drummer.
Cobham is an arrogant prick . I was at a clinic where he literally said " dont ask me any stupid questions " .... some poor kid ended up asking him what kind of sticks he used ... Cobham said " now this is what i meant when I said no stupid questions " ... what a fucking douche ..i hate billy cobham and frankly I think his playing is as obnoxious as his personality .
I've heard Secrets. Personally, I was bored by it. Not really something I would listen to more than a few times. Holdsworth was better with Tony WIlilams LIfetime and I'd rather hear Holdsworth with that band. Otherwise, Holdsworth didn't really do much for me.
Modern Drummer Reader's Poll All-Around winnner multiple years in a row.
If you don't like Vinnie's playing very much, why are you spending so much time typing/speaking against him? Don't listen and move on to what you like...
for someone who apparently doesn't like Vinnie at all, you sure spend plenty of time posting negative comments about him. Why not just listen to what you like, then post how much you like it?
Unbelievable! Vinnie is sight reading this song. Notice he keeps looking to the chart on his left...it's gotten to the point where I'm not inspired anymore by Vinnie - he makes me want to quit :)
Sorta, dude clearly knows the tune. It's a Steve Gadd tribute and he's playing some of the exact licks that Gadd did on this track. It's a tough track though, keeping track of all those hits. Vinny is indeed the man.
Does Vinnie ever miss a beat? He's not just in a different place than everyone, he's in a different galaxy than everyone. Just un-@*#-believable. He makes EVERY drummer want to throw down the sticks, haha!!!:)))) We're blessed to witness this! Incredible!
guys this video is in respect to steve gadd so vinnie is playing alot of steve gadd licks more so than anything on purpose. Check out the Herbie Hancock live with vinnie and thats the balls to the wall vinnie. Weckl is playing Weckl on this song with Chick. Vinnie is paying respects to Steve here.
Saw the Chick Corea Elektric Band with Dave Weckl play this song at The Blue Note back in December and Dave was just on fire!!! Vinnie does a good job here but Dave was just on another planet while playing this song, can't even begin to describe how amazing it was to watch in person sitting literally 5 feet behind him.
i have always found weckl to be a more solo oriented player. colaiuta on the other hand, gives the band exactly what it needs. weckl is an incredible drummer, but colaiuta in my mind is perfect. i dont think anyone will ever play like him
Yaaaaaaa!
mcrhythm2 1 month ago
why is it that every time I come to watch some good music, there is always someone bitchin about who is better or what is what.........suck it ...........all of u need to shut yo' shiiiit and spend your time playing music rather than ruiniing it for everyone else................pricks.
JunkyFazz 5 months ago
@Oneness100
You obiously have to say a lot of bad stuff about vinnie and how he plays songs with certain artists. If al the things you said about vinnie are true, wich they are not, i wonder why artists like jeff beck and herbie hancock, who are both top musicians, would ask vinnie to play with them anyway.
You clearly do not have much respect and understanding for most music vinnie plays. But that does not matter since i have met more fools like you and they were all unconvincible…
RequiemDrums 7 months ago
Vinnie...sos DIOS!
mrpelado22 10 months ago
man it must be hard playing with Vinnie- it's almost like he enjoys disguising beat one
irateradio 1 year ago
Oooh. Nice upload. Metal is ruined by bad perms, dull-arsed computer engineers, infantile fatbodies in leather pants, sticky beer carpets, unbridled flatulance, drunkardness, the music and whatnot. But talent can't be denied.
sxmadrid 1 year ago
who says metal doesnt have soul??? check out necrophagist, pantera, sepultura, all great bands with tons of feeling and great metal grooves
doublethumpbass89 1 year ago 2
Probably could have benefited from a rehearsal. :P
hypersonic12 1 year ago
wow his solo in the end is one of the most musical solos that he has ever played...!!
drummeroulis93 1 year ago
Excellent as usual! BTW, metal drummers have a lot to add to the world of percussion. May I humbly suggest to listen and learn.
vivaldi1954 1 year ago
@vivaldi1954 as long as you'd want to immerse yourself in metric stuff and 230pbm-backbeats ;-)
SuperHighGloss 1 year ago
Love his style
Coolbeansification 1 year ago
vinnie colaiuta eres simplemente LO MAXIMO
drummer20 2 years ago 4
Sweet drumming man...
bcwdrums 2 years ago 3
and as for the argument about Vinnie- come on man he's arguebly the best in the world! Just listen to seven days; probably the finest mix of insane technical ability and tasteful playing you will ever hear!
as for "rap/ metal music offends me" that is just nonsense how can you, as a musician, stereotype an entire genre?
irateradio 2 years ago
he's reading the whole thing... amazin..
richiefff 2 years ago 2
@richiefff the did rehearse aswell so not like they are sight reading in the traditional sense of the term.
Still fucking stupidly amazing musicianship; im not sure whether vinnie inspires me or just makes me want to commit suicide?
irateradio 2 years ago
oh yeah mr. ONENESS100 im sorry to inform u, vinnie has played with megadeth in their system has failed album.. see the irony of jazz artist willing to work with metal artists. if u call that a fad genre dont compare that to a fag like urself.. i know vinnie didnt take metal as just a sound of pure noise that causes migranes.. and to think that metal dominated 1970-1990s it proves that this stuff lasts long.. metal here in our place has a big audience my frend
simon23tnr 2 years ago
vinnie's absolutely brilliant.
and he plays it different every time...
he's a consummate musician
Lifesucksdie123 2 years ago 2
Comment removed
stretch54 2 years ago
it seems that people bashing vinnie are very set in how they see him and arent really listening. why bother?
ayesoundmate 2 years ago 3
who is the bassist? please somebody tells me
bojorquez1234 2 years ago
I believe that's Jimmy Johnson
drulius 2 years ago
vinnie and weckl the best jajajajaja
bojorquez1234 2 years ago
what ride is the use vinnie in this drum kit????
please tell me.
GI2DW5000 2 years ago
It's a 21" K Custom Special Dry.
drulius 2 years ago
I like this version more than the original, too bad it was just bit
juanbarros88 2 years ago
wow, what a discussion!
I don´t why do you have to compare Billy with Vinnie, both are really, but really great players, both with their own voice.
I think saying Vinnie is just a B drummer( if B grade is like an average grade) is exaggerated, but, it´s your opinion and that´s great.
i don´t know, just hearing the Randy Waldman cds is like, holy shit, Vinnie is amazing.
Greetings, and excuse me for my english
davidmullen14 2 years ago
Vinnie IS amazing and I love him as a drummer. Sometimes he just isn't that coherent with the rest of the band. And this song, man, it's boring as youknowwhat played by this band? I guess I'm kinda criticizing the groups he plays with. The band's generity gives him the spotlight. Of course there are acceptions, but it goes to enjoying the drumming more than the music, so to speak..
I apologize. Am I making any sense?
petematic 2 years ago
Sorry to butt in like this, but I want to inject: Enough with the qualitative relativism already!
"If it's right for you then it's right for you". No!
Sometimes people are just wrong! You can not call Vinnie a B grade drummer and expect to get away with it. Such a person does not know what he/she is talking about. Subjective taste is, of course, a whole 'nother matter.
BHBdrummer 2 years ago
Oneness100 is right, but the whole debate seems really pointless :)
Vinnie is a great drummer indeed but I've yet to find an album he plays on which I've enjoyed listening to. I liked him playing with Corea and Patitucci but Cobham.. Oh man the mahavishnu records not to even mention his solo albums. I enjoy them :)
I guess it's an obvious statement but sometimes vinnie just has that same fault tha Weckl has: Too techical, too muc playing hehe..
petematic 2 years ago
try vinnie with megadeth. it kicks ass, man.
spamtree 2 years ago
Megadeth, Why would I want to listen to Megadeth? That's satanic metal rock nonsense. TOTAL ego based pathetic crap.
Oneness100 2 years ago
Megadeth isn't satanic they are political.
Don't be ignorant. Only black metal is satanic, and that's just a gimmick anyway.
ScreamxBloodyxGore 2 years ago 6
Oh, OK, I guess you would know...... Hey, I just call like I hear it.
I just don't get involved with listening to the giagantic egos of metal music. It just isn't musical. It gives me a headache and I just can't get behind it. It is just fad music anyway, that stuff won't last long. Imagine senior citizens headbanging to Megadeth in their 70's at the retirement homes? Yeah, right, like that's going to actually happen. Kids with either grow out of the rebelious phase one way or another.
Oneness100 2 years ago
your fucking stupid if you think metal isnt musical...especially a band like megadeth who was very influenced by jazz in her beginning... and btw metal is still popular since black sabbath came out,thats 40 years of millions still loving this music in all ages. try listening to bands like pantera,sabbath and megadeth too. i agree theres allot of crap bands,cant see why pepole would think a band like megadeth or pantera isnt musical
Adudewithastick 2 years ago
No, I don't think Metal Rock is musical.
Oneness100 2 years ago
if u think it dat way then ur not a musician at all.. music is a product of persons emotions, interpretations and ideas into musical notes and sounds... any genre should not be biased because every music that we play is a product of pure emotion and imaginative creativity.. ur very narrow my frend.. and even grand mama's play death metal drums here at utube, so 80 yr olds can appreciate metal.. i knew many jazz artists here, and they respect every genre, they criticize u if u dont
simon23tnr 2 years ago
Obviously you haven't studied about the psychology behind music. Every song, musician has various levels of consciousness and emotion behind it. I don't want to listen to music with anger and hatred involved with it because I find it offensive and not uplifting. Metal, certain punk, Gangster rap and various other forms of music are NOT uplifting and created emotions to me, the listener, that create bad energy. There have been studies that plant life (like humans) respond good/bad to music.
Oneness100 2 years ago
There are supreme musicians out there that have mentioned that there are good forms and bad forms of music.
What Vinnie is doing with this classic song is just a second rate version that doesn't have the heart and soul of the original recording done by better players that understand how to play with heart. Metal has no heart/soul, it is just plain anger which I don't wish to be part of.
Oneness100 2 years ago
Comment removed
ScreamxBloodyxGore 2 years ago
@Oneness100 metal has no heart/soul? you havn't been listening to the right metal. shitty bands like suicide silence have no soul
ElLapiz24 2 years ago
When I travel and I hear a car with rap music cranked up to offensive levels, me the listener, gets offended by it.
Get off your pedastal and go study more, you are obviously not of the level of understanding with music and how it can offend people. I don't like listening to a second rate version of a classic song and this it is at the same level, because it isn't. If you had this band on the same stage as the members of the original recording, this band would be the opening act.
Oneness100 2 years ago
byt the way, there's really a psychology with it.. but its very narrow to generalize things.. lets say that metal really cracks ur head, u tend to generalize it too much that u simply summed up everything, not only that, disguisting a genre that is way beyond history and forgetting to show respect at it.. we can never deny that it can provide bad energy but generalizing everything which can provide bad facts can produce in ur mind a wrong perception of the truth..thats psychology
simon23tnr 2 years ago
Not all musicians respect all forms of music. I don't care if everyone agrees with me. If I don't like a particular song or music genre because it evokes bad emotions, that is MY feelings on it. I want to listen to music that makes me happy, relaxes me, uplifts me emotioinally or creates some form of positive emotion. If something offends or annoys me, then I can decide to NOT listen to it and to NOT enjoy it and to NOT appreciate it. IMO, this version of Nitesprte is second rate.
Oneness100 2 years ago
u cant call urself a musicians that doesnt respect all forms of music.. if u dont respect all forms of music never call urself a fucking musician.got it
simon23tnr 2 years ago
and, if a certain music doesn't comfort u, annoys u, who can force u to appreciate it??? no body of course, but it doesn't give u the right to say all those shit about metal or whatever, u need to study music little boy, and broaden u twisted narrow head
simon23tnr 2 years ago
What well-respected music conservatory teaches metal music? Do they have Metal 101?
Oneness100 2 years ago
Vinnie Colaiuta plays double bass. Thomas Lang plays death metal occasionally. Are they well respected or what?
darthjoey13 2 years ago
I would suspect every well-respected Conservatory has Teachers that can tell you an aweful lot about playing technique, harmonic structures etc...and thats all you really need! You go to a teacher or to Conservatory to learn the Craft! The Music has to come out of yourself then...and if you use your Craft to play Jazz, Funk or Metal is up to you
triondrummer 2 years ago
no, but wherever u went must have arrogance 101
samm1809 1 year ago 2
Based on what information? That I don't think that metal rock is a high quality form of musical genre? That's NOT arrogance.
Based on the fact that I don't think that Vinnie is NOT a jazz/fusion master like people like BC, and others that HAVE a vast discography of classic jazz/fusion recordings/performances? The fact that Vinnie doesn't play someone else's song as good as the one that created the first version that IS a classic performance like Steve Gadd?
Oneness100 1 year ago
@Oneness100 Steve Gadd isn't better than Vinnie Colaiuta. Nobody is better than Vinnie Colaiuta.
PoeticJustice05 11 months ago
well its ur opinion, in this case, keep that to ur fucking self.. im a jazz freak and a metal freak in the same time.. even though metal doesnt have the all the groove that jazz have,just some of it, still metal has produced quality music that people of all ages still adored
simon23tnr 2 years ago
Really? Even 80 years olds like Metal Music?
Oneness100 2 years ago
What a LOCK IN!
dperani82 2 years ago
How can be people who even dare to criticize the mastership of any of these musicians? I don't get it... or you are very special to have the right to express such a critic to Vinnie or you are very stupid!!! Who cares if he's Billy Cobham or not? who cares if he's an A- player (which is an envious observation coming from a retarded) ... wouldn't you love to play at least a 50% of what he's able to do? C'mon guys!! Live the music, enjoy it, let it feed your souls... bitters forbidden!
masterkid4u 3 years ago 4
The problemo is that Vinnie on this video is recreating an absolute classic Gadd performance of a great Chick Corea song, but the way it is being played is sterile, stiff and it just doesn't come close to the magic that was performed by Gadd. I've heard many recordings of Vinnie trying to play a Billy Cobham or Mahavishnu song and he doesn't even come close. OK? And I read a lot of posting by people think he is playing better than the original drummer. Sorry. I'm not buying it.
Oneness100 2 years ago
I don't think someone on Vinnie's level, or any professional drummer for that matter, is interested in "recreating" original performances. He plays it his way, his interpretation. He's not in a cover band at a hotel bar, you know.
drulius 2 years ago
What do you think this version of Nitesprite is? He is playing the same freaking arrangement as the original.
When he plays with Jeff Beck, they attempt to play Eternity's Breath and do a piss poor job of it. VInnie has done that Maha tribute album which was pathetic. When he plays Stratus with Jeff Beck, Vinnie's version sucks.
Sorry, but I am calling it how I see it. He played Freedom Jazz Dance with Ferrante and Haslip in LA and he trashed the song. He was hacking it up.
Oneness100 2 years ago
Playing the same arrangement doesn't mean he has to play the exact original part. I'm sure Gadd didn't expect him to. That would be weird.
So I get that you don't like Vinnie's style, and apparently are no Jeff Beck fan either, but trying to call him out as a B- player is silly, given his tremendous skills and standing in the drumming community.
drulius 2 years ago 2
First off, I've seen Jeff Beck with Bernard Purdie, Tony Smith, and Simon Phillips in the '70s. Personally, these concerts were far better than what Beck has recently been putting out. Vinnie just seems out of place when they play a MO or Cobham song. Simon Phillips played the original songs on There and Back and played them better than Vinnie. Tony Smith played the B by B/Wired songs just fine. As for what Gadd thinks, I don't know. I said between B- and B+ depending on the gig.
Oneness100 2 years ago
I like the old Jeff Beck, middle Beck (I saw the Guitar Shop tour w/Bozzio), and the new stuff w/Vinnie. I like them all.
drulius 2 years ago 2
questo si che è un batterista...
Dave weckl, Steve gadd, Vinnie colaiuta. i migliori di tutti i tempi
usciere85 3 years ago
I feel the groove haha. vinnie plays perfect, you just have to know how to keep track of what he's doing. it took me a long time to "get" his playing even though I still don't understand all of it.
NDiesel31 3 years ago
bellissimo brano di Chick korea eseguito con una eleganza e purezza dei suoni unica. Grande Vinnie
usciere85 3 years ago
Why take something that is already on the Internet (ie. at Drummerworld), then repost it on YouTube. Makes absolutely no sense to me ... not to mention copyright issues and the fact that permission has not been granted to you to do this.
drummercafe 3 years ago
why is he using ks? this is before the a custom got out or what?
carcassgrindcorpsesc 3 years ago
I'll take the original recording any day of the week. While it is difficult to play this chart, it's an example of how great session players can mimic someone else. But Vinnie's little solo kinda sucked at the end and his drums don't seem to be tuned accordingly. It's hard to play another copy of a classic song/performance/recording. But I'll give em an A for effort, B for Performance.. Plus, there is not guitar on the original recording. I love Tom Scott, but Joe Farrell is Legendary.
Oneness100 3 years ago
people like you are the reason vinnie doesn't do clinics anymore.
ayesoundmate 3 years ago
Are you sure? Or maybe Vinnie doesn't like fans exposing him for what he is. A great session/sideman drummer, but not a legendary master artist.
Oneness100 3 years ago
you're entitled to your opinion, i would say that vinnie is a legendary master artist, whatever you would class that is. I would definatel say that he is one of the most influential drummers and musicians of the last hundred years.
ayesoundmate 3 years ago
One of the most influential drummers/musicians? I don't think so. When I think about influential, I think of Williams, Cobham, Gadd, Purdie, Elvin, Blakey, Rich. I think that the Colaiuta's and Weckl's are the latest generation, but they don't have the heart and soul of these other master drummers. Colaiuta's solo album wasn't even close to a classic album. Even guys like Stewart Copeland and Manu Katche are more influential and have played/created more classic material that Vinnie.
Oneness100 3 years ago
look at a different sphere though, on joe's garage alone vinnie inspired thousands. I would say that vinnie is just as influential as many others. Rhythm magazine rated colaiuta before williams, copeland and cobham, not something that i would agree with, but theres another opinion.
ayesoundmate 3 years ago
Frank Zappa writes all of the drum parts and Vinnie played what was written. Vinnie can read his ass off. Personally, I liked earlier Zappa. One Size Fits All era. Pre-Vinnie/Pre-Bozzio era. I just like the melody lines and his writing from that era more. Let me know when Vinnie wins the Downbeat award. then I'll take notice.
Oneness100 3 years ago
He may be popular, but what grooves did he create that influenced other drummers? Joe's Garage was not an influential album for me. For some it was, but It wasn't for me. It was a Rock Opera.
Oneness100 3 years ago
the 19/8 groove was pushing boundaries of rock music on keep it greasy. You hit the nail on the head though, "for some it was".
ayesoundmate 3 years ago
he didn't create that groove. Frank Zappa did.
I don't think that groove is such a big deal. Billy Cobham's work with Mahavishnu is legendary and practically ALL modern drummers (including Vinnie) use Billy has a drummer to study, especially the odd time signature stuff.
Oneness100 3 years ago
Yeah, Frank Zappa is an innovator, but Vinnie didn't create that groove. Frank Zappa did. Give the props to the right person.
Oneness100 3 years ago
how about his work with sting? ten summoners tales? one of the fifty most influential drumming albums according to a UK poll?
ayesoundmate 3 years ago
that was a classic pop album.. I don't know about it being one of the fifty most influential drumming albums. Maybe for a pop album... Was this for current albums or of all time? What were the demographics of the age group for those voting?
Oneness100 3 years ago
If you listen to Vinnie's playing, he tries to cop a lot of what Stewart Copeland and Manu Katche did since they played a lot of what Sting was doing before Ten Summoners Tales. Yeah, the 5/4 groove is a classic groove that Sting helped Vinnie create the groove. The rest of TST was either straight ahead basic grooves or the odd time country groove. But one pop album does not make Vinnie a master. he has to have a HUGE catalog of classic recordings, which he doesn't have. OK?
Oneness100 3 years ago
You want to look at the work of a REAL master. Go check out Billy Cobham. He has worked with Legendary jazz greats on Legendary albums, helped define fusion/modern drumming with Mahavishnu, did solid work with his own bands creating some absolute classic drum grooves/fills that are widely used/sampled in rock, pop, funk, jazz, fusion drumming. He has won numerous DownBeat Awards, etc. He invented the Octobans, the Gong Drum, which all kinds of top players use.
Oneness100 3 years ago
Vinnie co-developed the A Custom series of cymbals with Zildjian, which "all kinds of top players use".
drulius 2 years ago
most widely read drum magazine in the uk. also i am not trying to discredit anyone, i love cobham's playing, and i do a cover of red baron with my fusion trio, but i firmly believe that vinnie is one of the most influential drummers of our time, while you do not, and nothing i say will change your mind or vice versa, shall we agree to disagree?
ayesoundmate 3 years ago
Oh, well, one thing that I have noticed through the years of the drum magazines is that they aren't as good. There is way too much marketing and not as much substance in the articles. Also, the readers are mostly kids that are into rock, metal, music rather than jazz/world music. I just think that the mentality of kids today is different than it was 30 years ago. Red Baron, Stratus are two all time classic fusion/funk songs. Billy is Hall of Fame level, and Vinnie hasn't earned that level.
Oneness100 3 years ago
i would call myself more of a jazz/funk/fusion fan than rock and metal, but even if kids, and drummers these days are more into metal and rock that doesnt change the fact that colauita is influential to them. as i said before im not being at all disparaging towards cobham.
ayesoundmate 3 years ago
cobham has won downbeat awards, invented the octoban and gong drum, while vinnie has been voted best drummer by modern drummer, collaborated with zildjian to create the A Custom line and has played with everyone from Bill Evans to Stong via Herbie Hancock.
ayesoundmate 3 years ago
Vinnie hasn't been on a single classic jazz/fusion recording. The stuff he has done with Chick Corea, Herbie Hancock are not at the top of the list for those artists in terms of recordings. Cobham has been on SHIT load of LEGENDARY RECORDINGS FROM MILES DAVIS, McCoy Tyner,HERBIE, JOE FARRELL, MAHAVISHNU, SOLO ALBUMS, RON CARTER. When Herbie plays with Billy, their names equal billing, not so with Vinnie, he is just a sideman. Vinnie is overrated. Great drummer, but overrated.
Oneness100 3 years ago
I don't see Billy Cobham doing a Vinnie Colaiuta song, but I see Vinnie "trying" to do a Billy Cobham song, and hacking it up compared to the original version.
This version of Nitesprite is not as good as the original. I'll take the original recording any day of the week.
Oneness100 3 years ago
notice that you are watching a vinnie colaiuta video, it is not tagged by any other. search for vinnie and his name comes up for videos with herbie, but simply with the name vinnie colaiuta-herbie hancock. we are never going to agree on this are we?
ayesoundmate 3 years ago
That's who posted it. It is actually a Tribute Band Concert to Steve Gadd, I think. Steve Gadd was on the original recording of this song and Vinnie is hacking it to pieces. The whole thing is real "watered down" sounding of a classic jazz/fusion song by Chick Corea. But most of the kids these days don't have the original recording to compare it to. They think that Vinnie's version is better. Yeah, right.
Oneness100 3 years ago
If I took all of the Vinnie videos on YouTube, there are only a couple that are decent. This does not make me more of a Vinnie fan. Vinnie knows this song from when it first came out on the market. If he doesn't something's wrong. Weckl could probably play as good if not better and not have to sight read it unless it was a different arrangement of the song.
Oneness100 3 years ago
from a review of his playing on Chick Corea's Live at the Blue Note Tokyo - ".....the finest example of acoustic drumset playing ever recorded". How would an overrated drummer get that kind of accolade??
drulius 2 years ago
well, the kids that are into rock/metal music over jazz and the old school forms of fusion don't really have what I would consider an informed frame of mind..... That's the problem with the industry. Too many uninformed listeners that do the voting. That one of the reasons why I don't subscribe to some of these magazines. I don't wish to buy into the metal /rock music which is what they are promoting.
Oneness100 3 years ago
why is that not an informed frame of mind? because people do not prefer the type of music that you and i enjoy to rock and metal does not mean that their views are any less valid. i think that these people's points of view are equally as valid as ours. while i would rather listen to the inner mounting flame than the latest trivium record that does not make anyone else's opinions less valid.
ayesoundmate 3 years ago
It's not that they don't prefer it, it is a lot to do with not growing up on it, not being exposed to it, or the metal rock bands get more hype behind it.
Jazz/Fusion/classical music have always taken back seat to rock/pop music and usually the more educated about various types of music, the more they don't listen to heavy rock/metal music. So, yes, I believe that if someone is not exposed to these other forms of music to the point where they understand it, then they're uninformed and invalid.
Oneness100 3 years ago
What happens to a person's perspective if they haven't heard the recordings or have seen these other drummers play back in the 70's? For those that haven't seen Billy live back in the early 70's and they are comparing Vinnie to him? If Vinnie could remake an old classic fusion song as good as the original, let me know, I haven't heard him do that. Shouldn't a top drummer be able to do that?
Oneness100 3 years ago
vinnie isnt a leged like cobham yet 'cause he isnt as old as them, his career began years later, the legendary fusion recordings r from the late 60s-70s when fusion was new n vinnie couldnt be on 'em cause he wasnt available. personally, I like modern drummers better, but putting aside our taste n likes, one cannot deny that vinnie is a great musician even if he hasnt been on a classic fusion record. hes consider great by a fair amount of ppl w/knowledge so in general hes great
juanbarros88 3 years ago
You might not consider him an influence but that doesnt mean he's not great, and he does have a heart and a soul is only that u cant perceive it. for example, I dont like Cobham, it doesnt mean hes terrible n that Im retarded, its a matter of taste not deform choromosomes. maybe in the future vinnie will b old enough to b a legend n maybe some of 'his' records would b consider fusion classics regarless of what u say, u arent the one to decide, ur opinion counts but thats just 1 vote
juanbarros88 3 years ago
Cobham was at legendary status YEARS ago.
Obviously, you weren't there 35+ years ago when Fusion was being originated. I was. The "fusion" drumming of today by the second/third generation players isn't as good. They just don't have that "IT" factor. Sorry. Vinnie is a great drummer, but when it comes to fusion playing, he doesn't impress me like the drummers from the first generation. There are PENTY of guys that, IMO, are better fusion players that aren't well known.
Oneness100 3 years ago
Gerry Brown and Tony Smith are way better fusion cats and both have recorded plenty of classic fusion material, but they don't get the hype that Vinnie is getting.. I've seen both live back in the 70's and both had WAY more heart and soul to their playing and they both SWUNG their grooves. As old and as experienced as Vinnie is, he should be smacking the crap out of this song... He shouldn't have to sight read this song. He's probably heard it a million times.
Oneness100 3 years ago
maybe you need to update ur PC to see what these modern drummers r all about. Music's infinite and as time goes by new ideas arrive. Cobham is just a legend, there's a lot more to drumming that cobham's old licks, maybe u just felt in love with the way cobham plays, and love can make you blind, you cant expect everything to sound like Cobham. there is better vocabulary nowadays. But I might b wrong cause im a young man talking to old oneness100.
juanbarros88 2 years ago
Vinnie is in his 50's. Cobham is in his 60's. He isn't that much younger than Cobham. He just wasn't playing with the heavy fusion cats in the early 70's. Heck Narada is only about a year or two older than Vinnie is, and Narada has played on several classic Mahavishnu albums, Jeff Beck album. Alphonso Johnson's first solo album, Weather Report, Jaco Pastorius, so age isn't what the problem is. Vinnie, FWIW, just isn't at legendary status due to his discography.
Oneness100 3 years ago
OPINION: I think cobham doesnt even seem hispanic wheres el sabor, hes like a paradiddle machine. Im hispanic just in case u ask. n think he doesnt sound very clean even though hes a machine. I dont get enjoyment out of Cobham. but thats just me. n I always try to b aware of being open minded towards different drummers. I like some mahavishnu songs. but I enjoy more the other instruments. I remember watching his vids, i just couldnt enjoy it. maybe I need to listen to cobham again...
juanbarros88 2 years ago
Cobham was born in Panama. But what does that got to do with anything.
I am talking fusion drumming, which is a form of music that was created in the 70's by Mahavishnu and they are considered by a lot of music authorities to be one of the top ground breaking FUSION bands. But thats before your time I guess.
Oneness100 2 years ago
The Legendary drummers were Legendary for the discography they had created. Some created more legendary performances during their life. For drummers like Cobham, White, Williams, Jones, Gadd, etc., they just had legendary performances early in their lives and they had plenty of them. Vinnie has lots of skills, but he has not achieved Legendary status, IMO. Vinnie's one and only solo album didn't do well. It was disappointing. I just think he is being overhyped.
Oneness100 3 years ago
juanbarros88, if you saw Billy Cobham play with Mahavishnu in the 70's, you would be saying the same thing I am saying. As far as fusion is concerned, Vinnie is a still in baby land. People are overhyping VInnie is all I am saying. I would say that Vinnie is a B to B+ player. Some stuff, he is an A- player. Let me know when Vinnie gets a Downbeat award.
Oneness100 3 years ago
You are clearly clueless when it comes to music and the musicality of others.
If Vinnie is in babyland you, my friend, are in land of the lost...
lscheps 2 years ago
I said B to a B+ player. Nothing wrong with a B or B+ and sometimes a A- player depending on what and with whom he is playing with. I just have stringent requirements. That's all.
With Fusion playing, I don't think he is an A player all of the time. Sorry. To me, Vinnie tries to mimic other players and doesn't always nail it. He does a lot of overplaying or he just doesn't capture the FEEL of the song. What fusion recordings has Vinnie done that is an absolute classic?
Oneness100 2 years ago
Comment removed
aaaaaa86 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
they rehearsed the same day of the show and they were reading during the show...why you don't try to do that?! What fusion recording did you play that I know? check Vinnie web site and maybe you can find some staff. After you said certain things i really think you don't know what music is.
aaaaaa86 2 years ago
aaaaa86,
I read your comment about Vinnie and the band sight reading and rehearsing that same day, but the thing is that Vinnie and others have probably been listening to the ORIGINAL version for YEARS and have probably practiced to it. Gadd,just played a magical performance. It's hard to duplicate the original at the same level. Realistically I could do 85% of that song without sight reading it, but I wouldn't put my performance out there. Why mess with a masterpiece?
Oneness100 2 years ago
I think Vinnie can play anything cobham plays. I think vinnie's vocabulary has more content and Vinnie is an update of those old fusion drummers, n there a lot modern drummers that have something else(new) to offer. Maybe Vinnie just dont like playing it exactly the way cobham or whoever did(not talking about specific songs), 'cause he might like his own stuff better, n maybe thats how he feels it, there a need for individual musical expression w/in the musicians. doing exact replicas is....
juanbarros88 2 years ago
No he can't. I've heard VInnie play several Cobham songs and Mahavishnu songs and he can't play them like Billy did. I've heard Simon Phillips plays old Cobham songs better than Vinnie, but still not with the same feel. Cobham has a unique feel and approach.
Oneness100 2 years ago
not being old doesnt mean u cant play. Vinnie wasnt in any classic fusion record because he wasn't available at the time. But maybe some of his records would become classics in the future. Regardless of his awards or records you are no1 to denied that he's is one of the best. many people that know about music say Vinnie's great , others just dont understand n is also a matter of taste.
among the monsters there r no best, so u can say that cobham > vinnie is a fact. I dont like Cobham
juanbarros88 2 years ago
I am not talking just about OLD classic fusion albums, I am talking about ANY classic. An album can come out tomorrow and be considered a classic. I would say that Vinnie is a great drummer, but he hasn't been on enough classic albums. Sting's Ten Summnors' Tales is a classic, but that's all that I can really consider. Vinnie can't even play a classic version of a classic song that Gadd, Cobham, etc. already did. OK?
Oneness100 2 years ago
again those facts dont matter. his career aint over yet but even If he doesnt reach that point u are talking about, he would be still consider one of the best among the greatest. I bet he can play replicas, he worked with Zappa, he is an educated musician, he can hear, write the rhythms down (which are less complex than his stuff) n play them. I think he plays more complex stuff than the 1s u mentioned. what he wont be able to do is to think like them while playing, he has a mind of his own
juanbarros88 2 years ago
Working with Zappa? Zappa is a difficult music to play, but Zappa has had tons of drummers in and out of that band and sight-reading Zappa drum charts is a must, but there are plenty of guys that can do that. Vinnie wasn't the only Zappa drummer.
Oneness100 2 years ago
he was the best though.
spamtree 2 years ago 3
that's one opinion
Nutjob100 2 years ago
"tons of drummers in and out" of Zappa's band is an overstatement. Let's see - in reverse order: Wackerman, Vinnie, Bozzio, Chester Thompson/Ralph Humphrey, Jim Gordon, Aynsley Dunbar, Jimmy Carl Black. That's only eight.
drulius 2 years ago
That's a lot of drummers in/out of one band. Name another band that has had more than 8 drummers over the years? Plus you have Zappa Plays Zappa.
Nutjob100 2 years ago
Zappa didn't have one band. He changed musicians often to suit his desires and compostitional goals.
Zappa plays Zappa doesn't count. That's Dweezil's group. Though he has had the same drummer on each tour.
drulius 2 years ago
I would consider Joe's Garage (Zappa) and Secrets (Alan Holdsworth) classics, and Vinnie's on both of them. Oh, and Document (Karizma), Live at the Blue Note Tokyo (Chick Corea), Jing-Chi (w/Robben Ford and Jimmy Haslip), and Nightwalker (Gino Vannelli) are pretty high up there.
drulius 2 years ago
Joe's Garage had Terry Bozzio as well, so why wasn't Vinnie the ONLY drummer? Plus, this was a transcribed Rock Opera., not what Mahavishnu was doing. Can Vinnie play Mahaishnu songs as well as Cobham? NOPE, not even in the same league. So sorry...
Nutjob100 2 years ago
Vinnie is the ONLY drummer on Joe's Garage. Bozzio contributed some vocals - no drums. Besides, what difference does that make anyway? Is Gadd's performance on Steely Dan's "Aja" diminished because he's not the only drummer on the recording?
I did not, and would not, compare Mahavishnu's recordings to Zappa's. I was listing a 'classic' recording that Vinnie's on.
drulius 2 years ago
Joe's Garage wasn't one of Zappa's most notable albums. His most notable albums were Apostrophe, One Size Fits All, and Roxy and Elsewhere. Vinnie wasn't on any of those albums was he? NOPE. So Sorry.
Nutjob100 2 years ago
Depends on who you ask. See, it's all OPINION. I don't get it - if you don't like Vinnie's playing much, don't listen to him and just STFU.
drulius 2 years ago
Could Cobham play Joe's Garage or Alan Holdsworth's Secrets as well as Vinnie? Probably not. Your argument is silly. They are two different drummers with different strengths and weaknesses. Why does everything need to be quantified and prioritized?
drulius 2 years ago
Can Vinnie play Mahavishnu as well as Billy? NOT EVEN A COMPETITION. I'll bet Cobham could play Zappa and Holdsworth, but Cobham isn't much into progressive rock, it's not as soulful. It's more techinical and doesn't swing or have as much funkiness to it. Cobham didn't need to prove himself playing with Holdsworth or Zappa, he already broke the mold with Mahavishnu and was doing his own solo albums making CLASSICS.
Nutjob100 2 years ago
You're missing the key words - AS WELL AS. Vinnie could play the crap out of MO tunes, though he would sound nothing like Cobham. And vice-versa.
And it's not about "proving yourself", it's about playing interesting and challenging music. You're not a working musician, are you?
drulius 2 years ago
Have you heard Vinnie's renditions of MO songs? They are not even close to the original recordings, let alone what Cobham did in live performances. Vinnie doesn't have the same intensity, speed, endurance, or sensibilities to play those songs with the same passion. Sorry, but Cobham with MO just was too insane for words. But unfortunately, you missed those days.........
Oneness100 2 years ago
He just plays them differently. What would be the point of copying Cobham's parts? Vinnie has his own sound and style, so of course it's not going to sound just like Cobham.
You don't know me or how old I am. And I listen to Birds of Fire and Inner Mounting Flame pretty often.
drulius 2 years ago 3
Aren't you 38? At least that's what it says on your profile.
Have you ever seen the original Mahavishnu Orchestra? How about the big band version with the string and horn section?
Oneness100 2 years ago
I am 38. I did not see the original MO live. I have listened to their records a lot. I have seen Cobham live with his own band. Just because I didn't see them live doesn't mean I am not fully aware of their material.
drulius 2 years ago
Cobham defined fusion drumming, been on more legendary albums than Vinnie. OK? It's real simple and you just don't understand that aspect of what makes a Legendary drummer versus a great drummer.
Oneness100 2 years ago
Cobham is an arrogant prick . I was at a clinic where he literally said " dont ask me any stupid questions " .... some poor kid ended up asking him what kind of sticks he used ... Cobham said " now this is what i meant when I said no stupid questions " ... what a fucking douche ..i hate billy cobham and frankly I think his playing is as obnoxious as his personality .
sweetfly66 2 years ago
Doesn't everyone know that Billy Cobham uses the Vinnie Colaiuta drumsticks. LOL :-)
Oneness100 2 years ago
Secrets - Alan Holdsworth. and Zappa's Joe's Garage, if you call that fusion.
drulius 2 years ago
Secrets and Joe's Garage aren't really as much fusion as they are more rock or progressive rock feel and underpinnings.
Nutjob100 2 years ago
Zappa's music is uncategorizable. And have you ever listened to Secrets? Doesn't sound like it.
drulius 2 years ago
I've heard Secrets. Personally, I was bored by it. Not really something I would listen to more than a few times. Holdsworth was better with Tony WIlilams LIfetime and I'd rather hear Holdsworth with that band. Otherwise, Holdsworth didn't really do much for me.
Oneness100 2 years ago
Modern Drummer Reader's Poll All-Around winnner multiple years in a row.
If you don't like Vinnie's playing very much, why are you spending so much time typing/speaking against him? Don't listen and move on to what you like...
drulius 2 years ago
Vinnie is in the Modern Drummer Hall of Fame. Cobham, too.
drulius 2 years ago
for someone who apparently doesn't like Vinnie at all, you sure spend plenty of time posting negative comments about him. Why not just listen to what you like, then post how much you like it?
drulius 2 years ago
its to jazzy for me.. i dont feel the groove
hynneke 3 years ago
Why is the video incomplete?
elsegno 3 years ago
Unbelievable! Vinnie is sight reading this song. Notice he keeps looking to the chart on his left...it's gotten to the point where I'm not inspired anymore by Vinnie - he makes me want to quit :)
bakedaddy747 3 years ago 3
Sorta, dude clearly knows the tune. It's a Steve Gadd tribute and he's playing some of the exact licks that Gadd did on this track. It's a tough track though, keeping track of all those hits. Vinny is indeed the man.
sublicon 3 years ago
Does Vinnie ever miss a beat? He's not just in a different place than everyone, he's in a different galaxy than everyone. Just un-@*#-believable. He makes EVERY drummer want to throw down the sticks, haha!!!:)))) We're blessed to witness this! Incredible!
kirk7524875248 3 years ago 2
Don't worry... there is also footage of the rehearsal for the Gadd tribute! He ain't sight reading :)
timsonrose75 3 years ago
Vinnie is THE man!!!
drummeroulis93 3 years ago
Vinnie is the master drummer. He is absolutely exceptional in every way.
danlc95 3 years ago
he played drums on megadeths system has failed
cooldude3 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
what band is this?
jonaspeter1 3 years ago
vinnie colaiuta is probably one of the best drummers of the century along with Buddy Rich and people like steve gadd and steve smith.
can't wait to see him in concert with CHick Korea
shebadoo123 3 years ago
guys this video is in respect to steve gadd so vinnie is playing alot of steve gadd licks more so than anything on purpose. Check out the Herbie Hancock live with vinnie and thats the balls to the wall vinnie. Weckl is playing Weckl on this song with Chick. Vinnie is paying respects to Steve here.
drewbydrums 3 years ago 3
vinnie is f**king awesome...!!!
dw2345 3 years ago
awesome band. vinnie just perfect. sorry to say but the band particularly sax missed the re entry of that rif nearly everytime. still great though
CalebDudey 3 years ago
You're right dude, it's a shame.
musicianfrommaine 3 years ago
Steve Gadd.
bartolome3 3 years ago
Saw the Chick Corea Elektric Band with Dave Weckl play this song at The Blue Note back in December and Dave was just on fire!!! Vinnie does a good job here but Dave was just on another planet while playing this song, can't even begin to describe how amazing it was to watch in person sitting literally 5 feet behind him.
TwoStepN41 3 years ago
i have always found weckl to be a more solo oriented player. colaiuta on the other hand, gives the band exactly what it needs. weckl is an incredible drummer, but colaiuta in my mind is perfect. i dont think anyone will ever play like him
seamusconley 3 years ago 6
Is that Jimmy Johnson on Bass???
juanbarros88 3 years ago
Think so!
lollieszone 3 years ago
no drummer better, period.
mdrndrumr 3 years ago
knowing how good he is hes probley not sight reading but reading a book or whats in the paper that day lol
poulter5150 3 years ago 6
someone tell me what dvd this is off!!!
150929 3 years ago
This is from the "honoring steve gadd " dvd
It's really great
frankanizer 3 years ago 2
Thanks!
myjazzvibes 3 years ago
And to top it off....he's SIGHT READING the song. Makes me sick.
jerrywitaj 3 years ago 3
just because he's looking at the music, doesn't mean he's sight reading. they rehearsed it, he knows the tune. everyone knows this tune.
sublicon 3 years ago 4
no shit...but he's sight reading the changes.
jerrywitaj 3 years ago 4