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From: ammosmith
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  • Extremely well said, I don't think you could have made it any clearer. As in any thing in life, Safety first, fun second, it should never be reversed !

  • I've got a boatload of once-fired Rem 7.62x39 brass from factory loads that I put through my Ruger Mini-30.. I re-sized and was ready to re-load but found that these cases use small rifle primers>?? I always thought that all 7.62x39 used large rifle primers. Can I just substitute Win small rifle primers or do I have to re-think powder load too?

  • @bayfilly1 Use small rifle but use the starting load...you may need to use magnum primers. Wolf 223/5.56 primer is great and is magnum rated....and cheap.

  • @ammosmith

    assuming the rifle is pointed down range, why is a slam fire dangerous for you and destructive for your rifle?

    wouldn't the round discharge and function the rifle the same as if you had pulled the trigger since it will be chambered the moment before the slam fire?

  • @DMark909 Te bolt may not be fully locked causing a complete failure in the bolt/breech lockup and letting 60,000 psi to vent on the operator.

  • Does this soft primer issue also mean that you should not fire civilian .308 hunting ammunition which may have soft primers in a M-14 / M1A? Is there a way of telling whether ammunition you may be purchasing has primers that are too soft to use safely in a semi-auto rifle?

  • @TheOverlord187 I would call the manufacturer. If they sell a soft primed ammunition and it destroys a weapon and injures or kills the operator..they are on the hook. I don'y use Federal Gold Medal ammunition in my M1 because they do use the thin F210M primer.

  • my buddy just bought a dpms 308,  i told him to get the right primers, he didnt know what i was talking about so i sent him this link to your video, i told him he better use the right dang primers. always good videos

  • @arridedry Thank you very much!! Shooting is fun and a way of life and liberty but safety comes first.

  • Check out the "Informative Articles" link on jamescalhoon's web site. He has done a pretty good job checking out primers. CCI also has some info on primers but I don't recall where. One thing to note is that the biggest difference for a magnum primer is that it also has aluminum particles in it to make a more uniform ignition. The slam fire issue is an important one, though uncommon. Users of semi-autos need to make sure they use the correct primers and crimp their bullets.

  • So what's the difference with CCI 41's, for example? They're magnum primers, that I know. If they're less sensitive, then they must be thicker? How thick are they?

  • @vyxaer The cups are thicker. They are of magnum strength too. 

  • Although using proper primers is important I think that seating the primers correctly and cleaning your rifle (especially the chamber) has more bearing on safety and preventing slam fires than primer choice does.

    Using the rifle as it was intended is important as well. The Garand should always be fired from a clip!

  • @bsrman36 Agreed! The clip is important and even when I single load I use a clip.

  • @ammosmith that's good to hear. sorry if my comment came off as the expert-jerk type. i thought it was worth putting out there for other people to read.

  • @bsrman36 Not at all...if you know you know. I am not above criticism. Also other viewers can learn from other viewer comments. I appreciate the input.

  • @ammosmith BTW, how does that Garand shoot? who makes your barrel?

  • @vyxaer I know ammosmith answered but I'll respond as well.

    If you research it, CCI 34s have the same cup thickness as other LR primers. They are however much harder/much less sensitive.

    I know it's splitting hairs but it's food for thought :)

  • I doubt that those dimples have been caused by what you did in the first scene. On archive.org is a pretty good video that shows the internal processes within a M1 Garand while a cartridge is fed into chamber. There is no chance for the firing pin to even slightly dimple the primer before the firing pin tang is lined out with the cut out slot in the receiver bridge - and that is: when the bolt is locked. I highly recommend in properly maintaining your rifle, if what you showed us is true.

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  • @Twistedtwin41 Use the CCI#34 or the Wolf large rifle. They are milspec primers

  • Is this a problem with factory ammo? I have two boxes of Remington 150 gr. FMJs, Are they safe to shoot in my M1?

  • @TheM1fan They should. I do think the Federal Gold Medal Match may be risky.

  • Just some more info on the AR. I don't know about other guns so I won't comment on those. The M-16 firing pin is lighter than the semi-auto firing pin. The semi auto firing pin has a bigger shoulder to interface the notch in the semi auto hammer if the firing pin shroud has been cut down. This prevents hammer follow on firing if the disconector fails. It is not a safety feature but it is there to prevent the gun going full auto with the disconector removed.

  • The AR-15 can not "slam fire" out of battery. I don't know how many time I have heard this. The firing pin can not reach the primer till the bolt has turned to lock. Also the hammer can not contact the back of the firing pin till the carrier is forward enough to lock the bolt. It is possible to get a slam fire but it is not dangerous in an AR-15. Slam fires are virtually elminated by using the correct M-16 firing pin that is gauged properly.

  • Comment removed

  • @alenleroc Nearly same is with a/the M1 Garand

  • You Ammosmith guys are great! I have learned so much from your videos and interviews. I really appreciate your thoughtful approach to reloading and gun safety. Keep up the good work and keep having fun!!

  • I just bought a norinco m14s and havnt shot it yet but i am thinking about shooting Federal Fusion 308 win 150gr. What would you recomend?

    Thanks

  • @YouReadMyMind First and foremost be careful with the Norinco. Their M14's have had the receivers crack. Try some 150gr FMJ to get the feel of the rifle then try some Federal match to see how accurate it is.

  • @ammosmith Okay, im just concerned about a slamfire

  • I saw this vid with great interest, I am reloading since quite a while for my AR15 and I always used Remington No.7 1/2 Small Rifle Bench Rest Primers, which are the easiest to get over here.Are they ok and safe for the AR15?Till now I didn't have any problems but I want to be sure after seeing all this..Thank you very much!

  • What about the CCI 250 in the Browning Automatic Rifle? The SPEER reloading manual states to use this primer in conjunction with RE22 for the .300 Winchester Magnum. Your opinion? Salut

  • If the firing pin has a spring retention then no problem. This is more to do with free floating firing pins.

  • would this happen on thee ak 47 family of rifiles i have one and considering reloading what would be the best primmer to use...?

  • Some have spring loaded firing pins....the Poly Tec does and the magority have free floating firing pins.

  • what primer would be a good safe primer

  • CCI#34 or the Wolf large rifle primer.

  • thanks... tell me what do you think about steel case roloading?

  • I tried it with the Wolf .223 because most are boxer primed. I got one reload out of them before the necks split. I will try again but I will anneal them this time. The cases are not easy to work with.

  • the 7.62x 39 wolf has a berdan primer thought about just [pressen out the anvil and replaceing with primer

  • I believe the primers are larger than large rifle and may not be safe.

  • thanks for the heads up.. saftey is always #1.....i was wondering why on my calipers the 7.62mm is measureing 7.80 or .308????? that confusees me is the bullet over sized to greater increase accuracy? diffrent rounds /companys measure diffrently...so would ther be a benifit to this?

  • Do you think CCI #400 Small Rifle is ok with an AR15 or should I stick with CCI #41 for my AR?

  • I have tried them but I have seen small dents from the firing pin on the primer after I checked to see if I was comfortable with them. Wolf sells "223/5.56" primers and they work very well. I would stick to the Mil-Spec primers...it's a safety issue.

  • so you are saying the CCI #34 and #41 primers are the only safe primers for rifles with floating firing pins?? than what the heck did people use for the 30 years before those CCI primers were developed?? you also mention that these CCI mil spec primers were developed for use with ball propellants and act as magnum primers with stick powders. And howmuch did CCI pay you??

  • Wolf also makes mil spec primerrs. CCI, Sierra, and Hornady also said that the #34 and $41 primers are of magnum strength.

  • What would you recommend I use for 7,62 x 39?

  • Cool vid again and that garand ,what a beauty.

    Mine's in caliber .30-06 from '44.

    Greetings from holland.

  • I use CCI BR4 for my HP Service Rifle competition loads in the AR and have been using CCI #400 and Remington 7-1/2 BR primers for practice loads. I've only had one slam fire and that was with a Remington 7-1/2 primer which I'm positive was a high primer (once fired LC 03 brass, minimal swaging of crimp).

    I don't know of any High Power "Across the Course" match shooter that uses the CCI 'milspec' primers in their AR. Everyone pretty much uses Rem 7-1/2, CCI BR4 or 400, or Wolf Magnum primers.

  • I'd like to see that,try it at a range with live ammo though. Also charge all weapons pointed at a target not the ground. You are right though, the Winchester and Federal primers are unsuitable for semi-auto rifles, nontheless a slam fire with US made good quality,factory loaded ammo-which is all I use in my AR15, not reloaded ammo, is as rare as finding a gold nugget in a desert.

  • Too dangerous with live ammo. We'll do it with case polish media instead of powder. A club member had a M1A explode on him and he lost two fingers and an eye. I'm not taking that risk.

  • good to know...i did not know about this. I only have a bolt action but i was planning on getting an AR-15. Thanks for the tip

  • I'll make a suggestion then. Re-take the video and instead of pointing the rifle straight at the ground,point it parallel with the ground as if you were aiming at a target,then pull the bolt. The way you are doing it encourages a slam fire by using gravity, you are manipulating the result. Try it in the way I suggested, I'll bet your results will be different.

  • We plan on reshooting it in HD and using a M1 and a AR15 and a AK...it's the only way to demonstrate the risk.

  • If the AR15/M16 were that susceptible to slam fires, the US military would retire the design and adopt a new design,clearly thats not going to happen any time soon,although they may move to 6.8 SPC.caliber. I understand your message with respect with reloading and you make a reasonable case there, but a slamfire with factory loaded ammo with the weapon in good working order, charged in a safe manner,muzzle pointed at the target, would be about as likely a being struck by lightning

  • It happened recently and it happens more often than you think. Seller&Bellot made a run of .223 with non milspec primers and a rile...AR15 blew up injuring the operator. The military uses primers that are thicker and harder. Google slam fires and you'll see what I mean.

  • Yes it can happen but it is very rare. Only a fool with little knowledge of guns would load a semi-auto rifle in that manner-it is clearly unsafe,experts would agree. Also an AR15 has a firing pin retaining pin which prohibits free movement of the firing pin until it is struck by the hammer.

  • There is nothing wrong with slam firing an AK,i do it all the time with no problems

  • Like I said in thge video. You can get away with it for a while but one day you might have a primer not fully seated or a thin cup and kaboom. It does happen.

  • I don't discount your reloading knowledge but , in the way you are charging the weapon with the muzzle pointed straight at the ground is dangerous and would encourage a slam fire. If that had been fully loaded round it could have ricoched or blown your foot off. When you are loading a weapon, you should keep the muzzle pointed at the target and only load it when you are ready to fire. In this way a slam fire is extremely unlikely.

  • There are neighbors...I'd rather take the hit than my neighbor.

  • How does a semi-automatic weapon fire without the bolt/slide in full battery,since the sear is disconnected until the breech is fully closed???

  • The weight of the free floating firing pin hits a soft primer before the bolt has a chance to lock into the breech.

  • Yes, it has a free floating pin. I've never seen an AK that didn't. I've heard that some of more expensive bulgarian ones do though. So according to that then, should I not even use any US made commercial ammo? I assume they all use sensitive primers. I've looked everywhere for the CCi's, and they're all gone. Natchez, Cabelas, Midway, all either 4 weeks backordered, or not even taking orders at all. This sucks. Stupid president.

  • SO you would not reccomend Winchester primers for an AK47? That really sucks.  I have 25 boxes of them in large rifle, and I can't find CCI's anywhere. Everyone is sold out.

  • If it has a floating firing pin...no. If the firing pin has a spring to keep rearward tension on it then it should be OK.

  • Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

    As a beginner rifle reloader I ahve one question that I am sure must be on the minds of guys in my position:

    How can one be sure that the primers you buy are good for your semi auto rifle ?

    I mean does it specifically say on the box ?

    Thanks for your help, great work

  • OK,Im with ya on the dangers of primers. I have a couple of questions. I own all 5 generations of Garand.. M-1 30.06,BM-59,BM-62,M1-A,SOCOM-I­I. Ive never seen a dented primer. What I have seen on regular basis is Mill. primers not firing in FAL's I also own a DPMS .308.With shortages in ammo im starting to load 308. Hornady uses WLRP in thier section covering"SEVICE RIFLES" an M1-A. I have reloaded everything under the sun except service rifles for 25 years so Im not new to this..Your thoughts?

  • That's with the CCI 41 primers...I think it's the lot. The 34's are great!

  • Awesome site.

    BTW, Ammosmith whatcha think about CCI 400 small rifle? They too get a small impression from the firing pin in my bro-in-law's R10 VTR

  • If you're getting small dents use a Mil-Spec primer. Going cheap on a primer can destroy a good rifle and maim or kill the operator.

  • I had this happen to me while shooting my friend's AK. We were shooting Wolfs in his backyard and then I started getting burst fires. His gun is Semi only.

  • There are gunsmiths who'll install a spring into the bolt to prevent this from happening. If the gun goes off out of battery it will explode.

  • i had a handgun slamfire on me what should i do message me personal on utube please

  • A lot has to do with headspace and the weight of the firing pin itself. Be cautious!

  • Thanks for the info. Would a new stronger firing pin spring be more safe?

  • This only applies to free floating firing pins. A firing pin that has a spring to give it rearward tension would not be an issue. This really only applies to weapons like the AR15, M1 Garand, M1 Carbing, some SKS rifles, some AK rifles, and anything that has a free floating firing pin. The HK91 has one of the strongest springs to control a firing pin that I've ever seen. To see if you have a floating pin, shake the bolt with the pin in place, if it rattles for slides then you have a free floater

  • @ammosmith. how do you feel about using the small rifle primers from wolf. are those considered a soft primer?

  • is this a problem with new ammo too? or just reloads?

  • Depends...it seems that Fiocci has blown up a few AR15s. Military Surplus is no problem but I wonder about Federal Gold Medal Match. They use their Gold Medal line of primers that are thin and soft so beware.

  • thanks for the tip. I have only been shooting surplus ammo, so thats good to hear.

  • Do a Google search for slamfires in AR15s, M1As, and M1 Garands. There's been a lot. It's never happened to me. When you're dealing with upwards of 65,000 psi it's best to be sure.

  • I have personally seen an M1 garand ruined due to a slam fire. Springfield Armory gives you a pamphlet when you buy their M1A's talkin about this. I use reloads over Federal Match due to this except when practice using single shot. Lucky my friend only had to replace bolt and reciever. For bolts Federal 210M primers are tops. Just wish Federal would make a mil-sped primer for their large and small rifle line.

  • Yes me too. Federal im my opinion is the gold standard of primers. CCIs are great but not as reliable as the Federals. I get about 2 dud primers out of 100 for the CCI #41 small rifle primers.

  • Good Heavens! 2 primer failures out of 100?!?! This is totally unacceptable especially from a service rifle ! I'd go as far to say that 2 out of 1000 is unacceptable in any service gun,considering its design & intended use. Does CCI know of this & if so, do they care ? Ive carried a rifle all over gods green earth. Id be very uncomfortable knowing that my rifle would fail 2 out of 100 times. I guess one would become proficient in malfunction clearance drills. What the heck are we supposed to do?

  • The point I was making is, the bolt velocity would not be this fast if it were stripping a round from the en bloc clip. On my M1A they say never to drop a cartridge in the chamber and let the bolt go either because of the liklihood of a slam fire. I would like to see a demonstration where the round was being stripped from the en bloc, and see if the primer denting was as dramatic as the first test. I appreciate what you are doing and the demonstration of softer/harder primers.

  • We

    ll do it again for sure with the AR15 and the M1 with a clip. The thing is that the clip with 1 round in it and one with 8 will differ in the resistance on the cartridge. A case w/o a bullet seated will most likely not chamber though. We're going to do more on this and other safety issues with primers. Keep up the comments, that's how we get better.

  • I read you should always feed the cartridge from the en bloc. Dropping into the chamber, and letting the bolt go home guarentees a dent because of the free floating firing pin. I would like to see the same demonstration when the cartridge is fed from the en bloc, and compare the dents. Thanks.

  • There is a small difference.The comparison we're trying to make was the use of a soft "Match" primer compared to a harder mil spec primer. We'll do this test again with both the M1 and we'll use a AR15 too. The M1 used is chambered in .308. The bolt travels at a much higher velocity due to the .308 being so much shorter.

  • Well I thank you greatly for posting this. I am well on my way to reloading my own ammunition. If I didn't watch this, I may have put a soft primer in one of my semi's and possibly ended my life. Sir, I greatly appreciate what you have done.

  • No problem, safety is a big issue when it comes to loading ammunition. We will be cycling out the videos we have put together for better quality ones in the near future.

  • Awesome. I love the site by the way.

  • Thanks, we've added a new tutorial and we hope it's helpful as well. Semper Fi!

  • Thanks, We had a M1A at the gun club explode a few years ago and really maimed the shooter and a bystandard.

  • Great Video-Extremely Informative.I had been reloading for decades,although haven't done any for the last few years,didn't seem to be a right time for it.

    I've always used CCI 200 & 250 primers for small calibers and 400 & 450 primers for large calibers.There didn't used to be a distincetion for semi-auto vs. bolt,etc, at least not that I can recall ever reading about or using for that matter.I'll check out the new Speers #14 Manual to see if this is mentioned.Look forward to more videos.

  • They may or may not cover the use of hard primers in the Speer manual. There has however been a recent blow up of an AR15 using Fiocci .223 ammo and it looks very much like a slam fire. Never underestimate the power of a firing pin to whack a primer. I have it under good authority that Wolf primers are safe in semi autos. I want to try the "test" first though.

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