Black Sabbath - After Forever (Live w/Alternate Lyrics)

[frankktillery82]

I would love to read what he's singing.

[frankktillery82]

I would love to read what he's singing?

[MrZerosRememberWhen]

The Track Listing On My WB Olive Green Label # BS-2562 Reads As Follows: Side #1 Sweet Leaf After Forever / The Elegy Embryo Children Of The Grave The Haunting Side #2 Orchid Step Up Lord Of This World Solitude Deathmask Into The Void

[AmericanBiker5150]

Just a couple questions, for anyone who knows: are these alternate lyrics just some he sang because he forgot, at the time, or were they actual planned alternate lyrics, that can be found on an album? Also what are these alternate kyrics he is singing?

[katho8472]

@AmericanBiker5150 I'd watch out for the remastered 2CD version of this album, the second usually contains studio outtakes and alternate lyrics versions. At least so it is with my Paranoid "deluxe expanded" edition".

[katho8472]

@AmericanBiker5150 I'd watch out for the remastered 2CD version of this album, the second usually contains studio outtakes and alternate lyrics versions. At least so it is with my Paranoid "deluxe expanded" edition.

[thezentrixter]

I'm a lifelong sabbath fan, 42, was never aware geezer wrote so much of it. He's an awesome lyricist then. and here I thought ozzy was so smart...into the void, snowblind, after forever, et al...

cheers

[ZeppFloydSabbath]

I'm too lazy to go back and read the who wrote what argument, but here is what I think are the correct answers

Geez wrote most of the ozzy era sabbath songs.

Dio and geez (mostly dio) wrote dio era songs. I'm assuming Tony and vinnie helped a bit.

I think gillan was the main writer of born again.

Martin? God knows. Whoever did it did a damn good job.

[MiloSassy2010]

hardly anyone know that this song includes  "THE EULEGY"

i have it on an old 8 track

[MrRenocali]

Why even make an issue out of who wrote the lyrics !!

Just listen and keep on listening dont ever stop listening.

Dont waste your time when ....you could be listening to

another song. Make sense ?

[CannibaLouiST]

Ozzy's voice in the early 70s was much deeper

[nungi3]

@CannibaLouiST

[Matlike1]

Don't know what it is with Sabbath but their music just hypnotizes me, freaking love it.

[jamesabilly]

They played this when I saw 'em in Seattle during The Reunion Tour... My buddy & I almost died we were so surprised & excited. It wasn't the best concert I've seen but definitely the coolest. Seeing the original Sabbath some 20yrs after Ozzy was fired was truly an incredible experience for me.

[jamesabilly]

Any half way knowledgeable Sabbath fan knows that Geeze wrote damn near every lyric of The Ozzy Era. It's also kind of ironic because Bob Daisley wrote much of Ozzy's lyrics early on(Blizzard & Diary) in Ozzy's solo career as well. As far as alternate lyrics in this recording I think this is just the classic case of Ozzy making things up & or singing in gibberish as he was quite prone to do before he got a song down. The 1970 Paris footage is fun for that. Thanks for posting this! It rocks!

[LordOfThisWorld74]

Thats the truth

[randy0987]

yeah it sounds like hes singing gibberish...its kinda creepy actually...sounds like hes in a trance or something.

[MARIOFREAK821]

@randy0987 That would be called drugs.

[randy0987]

@MARIOFREAK821 noo.... REALLY??

[FromBeyond99]

Tony wrote this.

[GregERobertson]

. . . all this talk of who wrote the lyrics is occasioned by this song with "alternate" lyrics. In Sabbath's early years there were alot of "alternate" lyrics. Then they got a teleprompter.. . .

[s7o0a0p]

what did he say?

[HenryCovert]

re: the other 4 Martin studio albums, IIRC Headless Cross & Tyr were Martin & Nicholls both working on the lyrics. like you said, Cross Purposes was Martin & Geez (IMO Geez wrote all the music & lyrics to Virtual Death).

but what of Born Again (my favorite Sab album)? i think Gillan wrote all the lyrics, but has there ever been any hint that Geez might've contributed?

[s7o0a0p]

zero the hero!

[HenryCovert]

(cont'd) & Computer God. seems like Geezer wrote all the music for those tunes before rejoining Sabbath, but did Geez write lyrics the Ronnie replaced them w/ his own? i do know conceptually, w/ the concepts for the album title & Computer God lyrics, it seems Geezer & Ronnie were having some kind of one-off brainstorming on concepts for material.

cont'd..)

[HenryCovert]

(cont'd) and also all the lyrics for the new album (& i steadfastly stubbornly refer to it as a Black Sabbath album rather H&H).

Eternal Idol, yes, was Bob Daisley 100%. i wouldn't be surprised if Geoff tossed in a few ideas, but yeah Idol = all Daisley.

Dio wrote all the lyrics on his 1st 2 Sabbath studio albums, but i know Geezer came up w/ the album name Dehumanizer. i'm pretty sure Dio wrote every lyric on the album. i haven't listened to the demos of GZR doing Master of Insanity...

[HenryCovert]

(cont'd) i think it's possible - but unlikely - that he may've had ideas for what songs should be about on 7th Star since it was to be a solo album. but all sources indicate Glenn Hughes & Geoff Nicholls wrote the lyrics on 7th Star.

i agree about yr guess that others wrote the lyrics on his Iommi albums - especially the ones with Glenn (who's been a good lyricist all the way back to Trapeze).

i'm 100% positive from a ton of on-camera statements that Dio wrote the 3 new tunes on Dio Yrs..

[blacksabfan]

You mean the lyrics? Absolutely NOT.

First of all, why bother saying this if you're not going to include any source for your claim?

For the 182309 time...Tony DID NOT write After Forever. He didn't write The Shining either. That was Bob Daisley. Tony Martin wrote "Headless Cross". Dio wrote "I" Don't even bother posting if you're not going to provide a source for these claims. It's a waste of time.

[TheJaydeeOldBoy]

Wow, i was coming back here to correct you stupid reply, which i cant fine here now because you have covered the page argueing with a moron that seems to blindly love ozzy, your as daft as he is just for this on so long.

BTW, who is Sabbath370, he sound like he knows what he is talking about, isnt another sheep like you that blindly follows the first contradictory story. No wonder theres so many idiots about who think Zeppelin started metal, when there is people and dense as you to back them

[blacksabfan]

I never said Zeppelin started metal. Why are you even bringing that up?

Why is my reply stupid? You haven't pointed out any evidence to the contrary. Get some, and then respond. The reply you're looking for isn't that hard to find. Open up your eyes.

Again typical bullshit..."It's true because I say it's true, and fuck everything else"; that's not going to fly here. Geezer fucking said so, in a book, written by a guy who's written dozens of books on the subject. Why do you argue it?

[TheJaydeeOldBoy]

I know you didnt say that about Zeppelin, i was pointing out your no different form the other sheep who read somthing that contradicts a series of events, no matter how strong the previous facts were, put 2 and 2 together and get 5.

Youve stated no sources, my sources are so vastly spread over many, interviews, transcripts, documentaries, magazines and actualyl meeting them that its very difficult for me to name even a quater of them. Buts its not liek you have either.

[blacksabfan]

I did in this very post. I quoted from Martin Popoff's book. Martin Popoff is well respected in the Heavy Metal genre and has written dozens of books, which include snippets from interviews from nearly every major musician/singer in the genre. You don't get that kind of reputation by consistantly lying. I've quoted other books and interview snippets as well. The burden of proof is on YOU.

[TheJaydeeOldBoy]

Sources arnt even required if you knwo the history, the logical conclusion is obvious... unless your a sheep who needs to be spoon fed thier knowedge by the first person who says somthing different, bob daisley hasdone nothing but compain to any journalest who will listen(and it shows, but only over the internet with amateurs)... its no coincidence why people who know bob and ozzys full history know that bob is lieing? Not like its the first time either.

[blacksabfan]

"Sources arnt even required if you knwo the history"

Typical response by someone who likes to say a bunch of non-sensical shit and can't back any of it up. Holocaust deniers, conspiracy theorists, and other wack-jobs do it too. You can't prove me wrong so that's your reply.

Ozzy himself admitted that the lyrics for his solo albums were written by Bob Daisley, just as recently as 2002 in Guitar World magazine.

And you are Sabbath370. You're saying the same shit he said.

[blacksabfan]

So is Tommy Alridge a liar then too? How about Lee Kerslake? Geezer Butler? All these people are liars? Are you sure this is the stance you want to have? Martin Popoff, Garry Sharpe-Young, and Guitar World magazine...lies upon lies? Get a fucking clue. You seem to equate making a decision based on testimony and actual fact as "just being sheep". I suppose when criminal trials occur and people use the same evidence to try criminals, that those decisions are made by "sheep". What a stupid SOB.

[deuce1231]

Coming late to this conversation, I hope you mean Tony MARTIN didn't write "After Forever" because Iommi certainly DID. One of the few early Sabbath tracks he has sole songwriting credit for. Based on your previous comments, I think it's safe to assume you knew that, and you are referring to Martin here, yes?

I feel yoru pain, bro, I have the same problems with KISS fans who spew misinfomraiton all over the place.

[blacksabfan]

No, Geezer Butler wrote "After Forever". Tony Iommi is credited for it, yes, but Geezer says he wrote the lyric, and I believe him. After all, how many lyrics has Tony Iommi written??

Just because someone is solely credited doesn't mean they were the sole person responsible for the song. Lots of Black Sabbath tunes have group credits when really 1 or 2 members are responsible.

[deuce1231]

But by that logic, it defeats the purpose of having sole credit for the song.

If you have a source for Geezer's input, great, let's see it. I don't dispute at all Geezer's contributions to the majority of Sabbath's lyrics, but when a member gets sole credit on a song, while the rest of the album is listed as a group effort, it kinda defeatrs the argument of "only one or two' did the work. Why bother differentiating then?

[deuce1231]

And true, Iommi's not known for writing lyrics, but neitgher you not I were there when the song was created, sothe only thing we have togo by is the songwriting credit. That is, until you can source Geezer's statement, which I don't fully discount, but until there's a citation, it doesn't amount to much.

[blacksabfan]

I have before, it written right in Martin Popoff's book, "Black Sabbath: Doom Let Loose" on page 59.

Geezer: "After Forever is just about all these people that were following us around that were into the occult, and all the so-called Jesus freaks. I used to talk to these people that supposedly had dedicated themselves to Jesus...So as a response to them, I wrote After Forever."

I swear I've posted that before, but maybe I just mentioned it offhand.

[blacksabfan]

Secondly (and this is the part I don't get) is why you're demanding I prove my sources. What about the other 1000 wackos on here that can't type a damn sentence or provide any proof for anything they say? Many times, on many other videos, I've posted stuff from books and interviews...that's where my knowledge comes from. And if we can't trust those sources...then what are we supposed to trust...

[b24warbaby]

Quite a few (live) Sabbath songs have different lyrics simply because Ozzy made them up as he went along. .. He forgot them. I 've sung in bands and it is impossible to sing, play .. let along remembering the verses in the right order. Remember in those days .. they didn't video monitors on stage with the lyrics. Sabbath is not alone sings songs with alternate words.

[adamsmith13real]

Not only cause he forgot him. They wrote different versions, and lot of Sabbath song has. e.g. the Paranoid had an exactly another, and the War pigs 4 or 5 too

[yfh10mg]

I will never get tired of Black Sabbath!

[Josh3200]

As for the who wrote the lyric's with Dio..

Geezer said in an interview..

"As soon as we got Ronnie, he started writing all the lyrics, and whenever I tried to help, he would tell me to "not worry about it, because I knew nothing"

[blacksabfan]

I found this on ultimate-guitar. Geezer did this interview back in 2007 while touring with Heaven and Hell. It's long so I'll put the question here and his response in the next box.

"With Ronnie coming in and contributing to the song writing process, it must have freed you up to concentrate more on your bass playing?"

[blacksabfan]

Geezer:

"Absolutely because I was sick and tired of like coming up with lyrics and I was also running out of things to write about. Ozzy was so out of it at the time and I had spent weeks doing all these lyrics and he wouldnt even read them. I was so pissed off that I stopped writing lyrics and wanted to concentrate on bass playing. When Ronnie came in, he came with a total different attitude so it totally freed me up to concentrate on the music side of it. "

[metalheadskids]

to thesithempire tony gets sole writing credit for this song

[blacksabfan]

That is true, but Geezer said he wrote the lyrics for it (Geezer says so in Martin Popoff's Sabbath book). I'm still not sure as to why Iommi got full credit for this.

[TheJaydeeOldBoy]

Lyrically Tony did nothing during the ozzy era. As usual people are obviously throwing round theroies and assumptions (most of the time they are wrong or inaccurate comments about Ozzy) and for some strange reason people believe them. Iv also heard alot of people giving lyrical credit to Tony for Iron man and NIB, which of course Geezer and Ozzy co wrote.

[blacksabfan]

Speaking of Tony, I'm not to sure he ever wrote any lyrics. Geoff Nicholls and Glenn Hughes did most of the Seventh Star stuff and for the rest of the eras, it was always the singer doing the lyrics. Except for Cross purposes (which was a Butler/Martin affair.) Geoff Nicholls also helped Martin out a lot too...and it's sad because he hardly gets mentioned.

[blacksabfan]

Oh, and Eternal Idol was 100% Bob Daisley...just like the first four Ozzy albums were lyrically 100% Bob Daisley. Another guy who wrote some truly amazing stuff and hardly gets any credit.

[TheJaydeeOldBoy]

Tony has written lyrics (though they arnt much to be excited about.) He co-wrote songs with the various arests on his Iommi album and the Fused album, he worked on later Heaven and Hell songs with Dio.

[blacksabfan]

That's not true at all. Randy didn't write lyrics, just most of the music. Ozzy did melodies. That's it. Bob Daisley is so undercredited it's criminal. He also wrote most of No More Tears, before Ozzy and Sharon decided to not use his stuff and completely redo the lyrics using other people. When are you Ozzy fans going to wake up and give Daisley his due? I'm sure you probably think those 2002 remasters are better than the real thing with Daisley and Lee Kerslake's original bass and drums.

[blacksabfan]

A 2002 review of Blizzard and Diary by Adrien Begrand:

"In several recent interviews, Daisley also claims that, in addition to his studio work with Ozzy, he is responsible for all the lyrics in Ozzy's solo catalog in the 1980s (something Ozzy admitted to in a recent Guitar World interview). It's clear to anyone with half a brain that Daisley and Kerslake have been dealt the short end of the stick (songwriting credits on the best-of comp The Ozzman Cometh are repeatedly given to "Bob Daisy")"

[redbirdfan126]

Let's face it, I love the guy, but Ozzy was a horrible song writer. I believe he was credited with writing two or three Sabbath songs, but I really doubt he even did that much. Ozzy suffers from dyslexia and ADD what makes anyone think that he was able to write any lyrics at all? Plus, when you add it his drug and alcohol abuse it is even easier to believe he didn't write anything. The only thing Ozzy wrote for Suicide Solution was "Wine is fine, but whiskey is quicker. " Sharon hosed Daisley.

[blacksabfan]

Did he really? What lyrics has Tony written? I'd be willing to bet money that those solo albums he did (they aren't Sabbath albums anyway so the point is moot but whatever) used lyrics that were written by either the singer he chose to use or a third party. I'm also pretty sure those Heaven and Hell tracks had the lyrics written by Dio. They are Dio-esque. Tony as usual wrote the riffs. That's what he's good at. He's not a lyric writer; never has been, never will be.

[blacksabfan]

Oh Jaydee...are you sure you're not Sabbath370? That dude said the same stupid shit about Daisley being a liar, yet never came up with one piece of evidence to prove his points. I think you're the same person. You might be the only person in YouTube history ever to lose an account simply because they were annoying and an idiot.

[fasteddie777666]

tony wrote all the lyrics to ''after forever''....just to let you know.....and i bet he helped on a lot of other sabbth songs...they all did, mainly geezer as lyricist, but ozzy decided how to put them to song....believe me, even though ozzy was baked, he wasn't stupid....just look at how he progressed....fuck dio....ozzy is the real god...case closed

[blacksabfan]

See above. Tony did NOT write the lyrics to "After Forever". Tony never wrote a lyric in his life. Even on the later non-Ozzy albums...those lyrics were done by either the singer that was with them at the time, Geoff Nicholls, or on Eternal Idol, Bob Daisley (who wrote Ozzy's first 4 albums)

BTW, Ozzy looked like "the real God" last night on that stupid-ass TV show. Dio and Sabbath are making an album and Ozzy is making an ass of himself on national TV. Some god that is...

[fasteddie777666]

one more time faggot....TONY WROTE EVERYTHING ''AFTER FOREVER''......why don't you get your album out and look at the label in the middle of the album...and it will say....AFTER FOREVER-IOMMI...not AFTER FOREVER - BUTLER,IOMMI.OSBOURNE , WARD......why do you fucking believe that tony didn't write that by himself....he wrote all the instrumentals, like fluff,orchid,fx,embryo.....etc­....etc....listen DWEEB....when you fucking beat me , about any sabbath trivia..i'll roll over and die..rookie

[blacksabfan]

You're an idiot. Just because a person is credited, doesn't mean they did anything. If you look past 1972, all band members are credited on every song REGARDLESS of contribution. Ozzy didn't do shit on NSD and is credited. Geezer received credit on every song on H&H even though he was part of only Neon Knights. Your argument isn't valid...and Geezer, in print, said HE wrote that lyric. It's pretty hard to argue that. I don't give a damn who was credited.

So roll over (and die) Beethoven.

[fasteddie777666]

hahahahahahaha...whatever rookie.....why don't you call tony up and ask him you fucking tool.......you are so fucking pathetic, that i think you should go back and start listening to your bon jovi albums again.....don't listen to heavy metal no more.....cause you disgust us you fucking pansy

[blacksabfan]

With exception of the instrumentals, obviously...any song with words was credited to the entire band, at least until 1981.

By the way, calling me things like Dweeb and Rookie will only cause you to lose commenting privledges. I'd advise not doing that. However, I will still call you an idiot, among other things, because this issue has been beaten to a dead horse, yet you STILL insist I'm wrong. I'm not wrong because I've had to prove this same point over and over.

[blacksabfan]

"don't listen to heavy metal no more"

I plan on thoroughly following this advice.

Enjoy the ban...asshole.

[HenryCovert]

coming in late, total Sabbath fanatic (check my channel), i've rated & favourited dozens of yr vids. i'd like to back up what yr saying a little to anyone misguided enough to keep splitting very thin hairs.

from what i've read (everything you've cited) & seen in video interviews & inferred from really studying the lyrics (i was in a heavy band & wrote most of the lyrics):

Iommi never wrote a Sabbath lyric.

[HenryCovert]

Dio wrote all the lyrics for Dio Yrs & Devil You Know material. that's been covered in many interviews. when one of them says they worked on songs together or started writing together, that's: Tony has a riff, Tony & Ronnie jam (Dio on bass usually) & either right there in one sitting, i.e. Children of the Sea, or Tony goes off to arrange the music & RJD off to write the lyrics.

[stashproductions]

how can this be from 1971 if this album didnt come out until after 72? did they preform this song before it was realesed?

[blacksabfan]

Yes.

[nobonemovies]

as a fan of sabbath for over 35 years this was always the song i felt had no relationship to their spirit of individual dependence.not only will i never worship the sun or anything this world has produced i still beleive in myself cause nothing else is true

[808D3]

You need to bow down and worship Black Sabbath.

[nobonemovies]

ozzy himself agrees with me there are no unbeatable odds there are no be beleivable gods,win or lose you can choose dont confuse its up to you.

[redbirdfan126]

I'm sad to here that, but I respect your opinion anyway.

[wastelandsentertainm]

I'm sorry you say that because I beleive that this is one of their best songs with their best lyrics (well the studio version, don't know what he's even saying here). It encourages Christianity with in turn encourages peace and harmony. As an strong Catholic myself and a fan of metal, I really find this to be a powerful song with a strong message.

[blacksabfan]

The underlying theme here might be Christianity, but Sabbath is more of a band that spoke in favor of individualism and being able to find peace within yourself. The song "Under the Sun" goes on about not wanting any "Jesus freaks" or preachers to tell the person in the song what to do, and ultimately a person needs to "believe in themselves". Obviously that depends on every individual; different people find their peace in different ways, whether it's Christianity or something else.

[blacksabfan]

I guess I'm trying to say that Sabbath wasn't a band that really supported Christianity. They probably appreciated the ideals of it, and it goes along with themes written in N.I.B. (warning against evil/Satan, etc). Sabbath wrote several songs questioning the existance of a higher power (Who are You?) and others that were negative about the world around them. I've thought Sabbath just put ideas out there for people to think about, but ultimately encouraged people to decide for themselves.

[halo9449]

Wow, Sabfan, nice way of summing it up!

And thewarriorsrok, I agree, it IS true if people look back. They preach love and peace, but look at who started the Spanish Inquisition. Terrible times (it WAS Catholics that did that horrible stuff, right? I'm not thinking of some other religion?)

[thesithempire]

Geezer's lyrics are geared towards a Biblical perspective, which is not incompatible with the idea of believing in yourself and hating the practices of a wicked world. What Geezer angrily dismisses in "Under the Sun" is people (read: Americans) shoving religion down other's throats, telling them they're going to Hell (which Geezer correctly surmised as hypocritical & unChristian).

"Who are You," on the other hand, was scribed by Ozzy and reflects his own questions.

[Strangeguitar]

Nice find. Thanx for posting.

[iconosphereuk]

Excellent stuff. Think I've got the full bootleg of this somewhere. Must dig it out.

[Frank332666]

good song from a famous band. :P

LOVE YOU FOR EVER OZZY!! :p

[toecutterr6]

Great song! I can play this on bass but I can't get that flutter-thump tone.

[0lid0]

same here! i dont know how to get that tone on my bass.

[toecutterr6]

It helps to play with your thumb resting way up by where the neck meets the body at the cutaway,that's how Geezer used to play,(watch the Paranoid vid).

[0lid0]

cool!

thanks man!

[voolverham]

jus wanna know man....u a fan of geezer.?..who do u consider to be the best bassie?

[0lid0]

geezer FTW! lol

i think geezer butler is the best bassist. he is the best!

[jonathanjarquin]

thats a great song with alternative lyrics its jewel bootleg ,GREAT MATERIAL OF SABBATH !!!

[02nec149]

When this was first released its laughable now but at the time this shit was pretty fucking scary at first I refused to buy sabbath records because of songs like afterforever but by 72 i contracted the black plague after hearing cornocopia and became a fanatical child of the grave never forget my first sabbath gig at the San Diago sports arena my first of many gigs but the first time watching 15,000 people go absolutly apeshit was stunning