Just listened to some other Demos of Kate from about the same time this was made, and I can say without a shadow of a doubt now that it's defiantly NOT Kate Bush... The next question is, who IS the artist singing?
I have been listening to Kate from the start and I would bet a huge amount of money that it isn't her. I cannot believe that she wrote these lyrics no matter what age she might have been at the time and her voice is so unique that this is clearly not her. Just my opinion though.
search for happy rhodes doing And Dream of Sheep. Then listen to one of kates cathy demos or kt bush band recordings. happy does have a kate splash to her voice, but you can plainly see the difference.
I know Kate has done a few accents, but always in strange and over the top ones, like in There goes a tenner and Coffee Homeground. This one slightly leans to an American accent, like for instance at 1.42 (you were really here). And there's also something in the pitch that doesn't make sense, like she has to hold back to sound like Kate. I'm convinced it's someone else, who sounds more like Diana Ross than Kate Bush to me... If it turns out to be Kate she once more proves to be a chameleon...
@robbjmc I'm very aware that there is no norm for Kate. But just by listening to the vocal sounds she's making, you can tell. Notice how I'm on the side of the majority here. You think that might mean something?
@jordanprincessai Are you assuming that the majority is...always right?
I am not insisting that it is Kate...there are many notes in here that are "off," but just as many that are dead-ringers. But I will not dismiss it just on the basis that it doesn't sound like "TMWTCIHE"...neither does anything from "The Dreaming." And I certainly wouldn't dismiss it simply because of popular opinion.
@robbjmc I'm not saying that the majority is always right. But usually when that many people all agree on something, there's quite a bit of validity to it. And I willingly admitted in my first comment that there are parts that sound like it could be Kate. Kate's style is very hard to pin down, but there are some constants. Her consistency is that she's inconsistent. It doesn't really matter if it is her or not, but I personally strongly believe that it isn't.
I've been listening to Kate since I was in the womb and I'll tell you now, this isn't her. Not her voice, not her style of music, not her style of lyrics. The background vocals are all wrong, since Kate did her own BV's 95% of the time. I'll admit that their are a few similarities in the actual vocal sound, but it's not Kate. It's funny how any mystery singer with a soft high voice gets labeled as Kate right away...
I'm guessing it's an earlier demo for what became Bryan Adams's 'Everything I Do, I Do It For You'. One source says she intended to sing the song, but from Maid Marian's point of view.
@MsBkirk I don't believe Kate ever endeavored to do that song...the song was offered to her, but she declined it outright. Then it was offered to Lisa Stansfield and finally to Bryan Adams.
After listening to this many many times, I am convinced this is Kate but recorded later than the 70's. Kate is very experimental and is just as likely to record something more 'mainstream' sounding. I love that this has so much mystery surrounding it. Someone out there knows the truth. If this isn't Kate then where are all the other recordings by the same artist?
The real givaway is that the inflections that are slightly kate are ones she developed much much later. Its a good impression as far as impressions of kate could possibly go, which will never be very far.
It sounds nothing like Kate's musical style. If it was actually by some bizarre chance her, maybe she didn't use it because it sounds nothing like her other music? I really don't think it's her though.
Judging from the sound of the performance and looking at the disc's label,this record could well date from the 1968 - 1970 period. I think its just a coincidence that Kate would much later develope a vocal similar to this earlier unknown singer.
I'm thinking the same. It's got a late 60s/early '70s sound. There are some harmonic progressions in it that remind me of the C&W-style songs by Geoff Stephens from that period, like You Won't Find Another Fool LIke Me, and Knock Knock Who'sTthere. Mary Hopkin sang Knock Knock on Eurovision in 1970, and if I had to bet who this singer was, I'd say her. It's more like her than Kate Bush anyway..
Six months later and the argument still goes on. I don't find the argument that she did not do anything like this before persuasive as Kate Bush is if anything experimental. Del Palmer's denial is persuasive. Another theory.: This is another singer that EMI signed as a backup plan in case Kate got on drugs or went off the deep end or just did not pan out as expected
.Well however bought the demo had a great thick mitten sock stuck over their head. LOL. Now ive heard it again Im convinced it is not Kate, my ears are not waxed and Ive been listening to her since 1978 so like to think I have a fair idea on her vocal style. God bless her.
Actually... musicians often do tracks they would never dream of releasing or performing live, just to warm up during rehearsals... This could have been one of those tracks... with a mystery recording doing the rounds and causing for speculation...
There are vocal similarities, but, in the chorus one can hear it is not Kate Bush.
However... Kate Bush has many a time said that FOX were a big influence on her early material.
I think this is FOX rehearsing... or Middle-of-the Road
I know Kate's juvenile demo work and early official releases, and this still sounds nothing like her voice, and it certainly doesn't have her precocious and unusual poetry. Ugh!
It could have been something produced when she was till in high school. Maybe for a school production? I agree, there is no other voice in the universe.
It sounds like someone doing a good Kate impression, but it doesn't sound like her. There are certain characteristics that Kate has - making her "t's" sound like "ch's", and the hissing of her "s'" for a start. This singer doesn't really have it. Plus, Kate Bush is the girl who wrote "The Man With The Child In His Eyes" at age thirteen, would she really regress so much to write this?
It's definitely Kate. I heard it within a few seconds. She sounds like no other. Not even Happy Rhodes at her "kateiest" has that particular timbre to her voice, and NOBODY on the planet sounds more like Kate (her high voice, anyway) than Happy.
The song is like nothing else Kate's ever done, but I absolutely hear Kate's voice. Oddly enough, I also hear Paddy among the background singers, but I wouldn't swear that it's him. I would swear this is Kate.
Ihave not changed my reasons why it is or is not Kate from 2 months back but I feel differently about the song. I disliked it then I find it strangely addicting in a good way now.
the actual singer tries her best to imitate Kate's voice, and she's pretty good at it, but... it's not Kate singing. This voice is something in-between Maggie Reilly and Kate. Interesting though. A kind tribute to Kate... How sweet...
After a week away, my opinion of the song hasn't improved. The lyrics are trite and the music is unoriginal. And for the reasons I gave, it doesn't make sense as a Kate "demo". The only thing it has going for it is the vocal similarity. But even that seems less convincing to me than it did a few days ago. Sure, there are quirks in the voiceprint that remind you of Kate, but overall the voice is too warm, and lacks that childlike, rather chilly texture we hear on the Cathy demos of that time.
Finally, closer listening has revealed to me a telling detail from the voiceprint. Kate has a slight speech defect inherited from her father. Her "r" is halfway between an "r" and a "w". In "And Dream of Sheep" (dawnrun11's upload), Kate sings the word "dream" twice, at 00:42 and 01:46, where it's very nearly "dweam". In this song we hear "dream" five times, at 00:25, 00:45, 01:26, 01:30, 01:49. But the defect is absent. It's sweet, but it ain't Kate.
Actually the "dreams" in this song is where I'm reminded of Kate the most. As for the r's: tomayter, tomahter...Kate has always affected her voice to match the song, from an imitation of Rosa Klebb in one to a Wood Pigeon in another. What each of us hears so distinctly the other does not, but no matter. I thank you for your opinion and for posting it here. You may wish to visit KBN&I where the discussion is ongoing and the folks are always up for some friendly debate. Cheers!
I don't think saying "tomayter tomahter" is a good enough answer to this point. Kate's "r" problem is something I've noticed both in her speech and in her singing. But this singer shows no sign of it. Also, although her voice is Kate-ish in some ways, it's too rounded, and doesn't have much penetration. She's smothered in the choruses. If Kate was singing this loud, her voice would cut right through those backing singers.
I disagree completely that there's a "problem" with Kate's r's. In "And Dream of Sheep" she sings "racing" and "Dream" quite clearly. There's no "dweam" or anything close to it. There may be instances where her r's are soft, but it's not so in every instance.
Others have made the point about the volume of the background singers during the choruses in DLTSS. I agree that she's never done that elsewhere...but that hardly means that she couldn't have done it here.
Again, no one is putting forth that it is a demo, much less a song created at the time of Kate's known demos. You've said yourself that acetates are still in use...and Kate's voice had become much warmer even by 1980. As for the rest, it's all a matter of opinion and I thank you for posting yours.
I found an interesting vid on YouTube, "How Vinyl Records Are Made". It shows the processes involved in making a master disc. It doesn't help us solve the mystery of this "demo", unfortunately. But it's worth a look.
I'm lukewarm about "Scares me Silly", but "In my Garden" is a gem, mysterious and beautiful. Kate breaking into birdsong - "ooh-hoo-hoo, a-hoo-hoo, oo-hoo-hoo..."
I'll take a rest from "Sunshine" for a couple of days, and then come back for a fresh look.
With a price tag like that, there's no guarantee it's not a typical bit of ebay opportunism. Did the vendor give any indication how he knew it was Kate, since the label names no artists? (Very odd cataloguing procedure, I must say - surely the artist's name would be mandatory?) Producing some evidence of provenance would be standard for someone selling a rarity, I'd have thought. The image is too dim for me to see, but is there even a catalogue number? If not, I'd have to suspect a forgery.
The price is immaterial...at 100 pounds, it's still thousands and thousands too low for someone to have booked a recording studio and a band just to make such a tiny sum on ebay.
It's very apparent to me that this is an EMI acetate that existed for the purpose of furthering someone's music career and as such, it is the genuine article...but whose? If it's truly not Kate Bush, it must've been some woman who at times sounds stunningly like her, and if so, who is she and when did she record this?
I wasn't suggesting someone set up the recording. I'm thinking of an EMI employee coming across this in the archives, hearing the similarity to Kate, and then just slapping a bogus label on it and flogging it on ebay. But he covers himself by not actually claiming it's Kate, just insinuating it. It costs him nothing. I'm very suspicious of a label without an artist's name, or a date, or even a catalogue number/reference code. We can't even say it's a 70s recording. It could be much later.
All true. However, I don't wish to cast aspersions on the seller: it's just as likely that he found it as he sold it. He put question marks in the auction and a clip of the song (which is how you're able to hear it here, BTW). He didn't state anything as fact, but rather let the buyers decide. I believe he sells acetates regularly and that this one was no more special than the next. Regardless, the coincidence of having an EMI acetate that also sounds like Kate certainly make it special to me.
I have other reasons for being suspicious. First, why would EMI made a "demo" disc at all? A demo is something made by the artist and *sent* to EMI. It wouldn't have an EMI label on it. I'm not an expert, but I always thought an acetate disc was something made by the company after they've already made a recording on master-tape. Since acetate discs are so cheap, it's a way of testing the quality of the transfer before committing the recording (more expensively) to a metal master-disc.
I'm not that familiar with the process, but if the acetate were made by EMI for testing, it could easily have had the word "demo" scrawled on it, never mind that fledgling artists also use the word for recordings they send in. I do wonder how recently EMI still used acetates. And if this song got so far in the process that an acetate were made, then what happened to the actual record-pressing and release? I guess these things get canned all the time. But the existence of this one is still weird!
Don't let the sunshine in today Just let me dream of you a little longer 'Cos in the morning you'll be far away Till then you're mine Our love is growing stronger Every time I close my eyes and dream of you Then you're mine until that sun starts shining through Don't let the sunshine in Don't let it shine on me today Keep that old sunshine far away Today
Who wrote that cloying mess? Obviously someone with his head full of Nashville. He's taken all the stock phrases and stock sentiments, and snapped them together like plastic Lego bricks. Then he poured syrup all over it. Just summarising the song makes me put on mah Stetson and go all hominy grits: "She's missin' her mayun and just wants to curl erp an' daaah"
Now for the music. Discounting a passing dominant-7th, it contains precisely five chords, and I named them all without even picking up my guitar. They make a harmonic sequence that any decent session musician could write in his sleep (and maybe one of them did). If she'd played this to Dave Gilmour as an example of her compositional skills, he'd have said "Don't give up the day job, sweetheart". Forget it - she didn't write this mush.
I don't think anyone thinks it's a demo -- it's an acetate. I also don't think it's a bad song either..."cloying" could also be applied to a few of Kate's demos...not that I'm saying that this is similar to the demos (it's not -- the voice sounds fuller and the band is more professional sounding), but it's not as if Kate has never written or sung a naive song. "Scares Me Silly" and "In My Garden" strike me as perfectly sweet songs that would not set the lyrical or musical world on fire.
There's indeed something in that singer's voice that reminds me of Kate's vocals, but I really don't think this is Kate. Plus, the song isn't even as good as her 70's home demos.
Give it some more close listens. I too thought it wasn't anything like her at first. And it's true, the production and the writing style aren't close to anything she's ever officially released. Try and weed out the backing vocals from the lead. Allow for some silly lyrics (a la "Scares Me Silly" or "Rinfy The Gypsy" or perhaps someone else's composition entirely). It's her.
I found this on a forum where one of the members had asked Pat Martin, someone who had played with Kathy on some of her demos, about this recording. Here's what he said:
I'm a regular member of that forum. And there has been a disclaimer there that it could possibly be Kate from Del Palmer as well. But...there could be many reasons why these people are unaware of this recording (which does not have a time stamp on it) or ARE aware of it and not wishing to legitimize it. And the more I listen to it, the more I think it is, in fact, Kate Bush.
"All I can tell you is it definitely ain't Kate Bush and it definitely ain't me Pete and David Gilmour playing on it. Whoever it is singing, she's much older than Kate was then, the phrasing is not like Kate and the song isn't good enough to have been written by her or anything like the other songs she was writing at the time and I heard them all. Sorry if this disappoints anyone. This is a hoax.
To me it doesn't sound like Kate Bush very much. The voice is too full and old sounding, especially for the time period suggested. My guess is that it's just a demo from some band that sounded enough like Kate to be sold for over 100 pounds as a "rarity".
There is no date on the acetate. But Happy Rhodes never recorded for EMI. Further it sounds more like Kate than it does Happy...and IMHO, it sounds more like Kate than Happy sounds like Kate (although she does have her doppelganger moments).
I don't think Happy sounds at all like Kate, except in the sense that every woman who sings well sounds a bit like Kate, especially when doing Kate covers. And Happy does a great job with those, IMO. Voicewise, this singer, whoever it is, is much more like the real thing, as you say.
The audible breathing merely proves this a bad recording. Good studio mikes and editing take usu. care of "unwanted" breathing.
I think it is Kate. I've had singing lessons for several yrs., and having listened to this with really good speakers, I cannot see who else could have that close to Kate's singing without having had at least *some* media exposure Kate fans would know of.
Personally, I find the song awful, but that's a matter of personal taste, really.
dosen't sound to me like Kate. Kate normally does her own backing vocals which is a big clue, so sorry i think we have all the Kate demos that you can still pick up.
The song does take some getting used to as it's not her usual multi-layered work...I'll have to agree to that. But I'd stop short of saying it's bad. It's still got her warmth and intimacy and there's definitely a charm to it. Keep listening, it will hook you!
This is Kate Bush..... sorry... but it is. EMI trying to find a niche for kate... Thankfully they decided to let her pigeon hole her or commercialise her...
although..as a demo... it could be worse... with production it could be quite good (ish)
Reasons why it is not Kate: Del Palmer has denied it to a fan club message board. It does not sound like 1976 British music but more like something The Partridge family or Brady Bunch would put out early in the decade. Unlike today with the retro movement people did not play even slightly earlier styles back then. It could be a singer from her neighborhood that has a similar accent.
Reasons why it is Kate: Del Palmer is being lawyerly/splitting hairs this is The KT Bush Band not Kate Bush. Bush has a wicked sense of humor. She is trying to do something similar to Paul (McCartney) is dead rumors of 40 years ago
If one ignores the main melody line off the top-intro (guitar line) and concentrates instead on only the piano - you can hear the same DNA found on the track "The Kick Inside" - listen to the piano on both beginnings, and while it's a generic I, V, IV, V pattern (in two different keys), there may be a golden thread here...and for that matter, the vocal quality makes it 'plausible' too!
Oh wow. I listened to this now for the umphiest time. This could, could, could be Kate. At least: there are some Kate-esque elements here. Both in the voice and in the subjet matter. And - being almost completely biased in liking everything she does - I really like this track.
I know...it's really perplexing. But though I did not think this was Kate in the beginning, repeated listenings have convinced me that it's her. And I like the song too!
Original UK 45rpm Single Sided EMI Studio Acetate c.1976.
It's well documented that Kate Bush recorded over 200 Demos before releasing anything and is, these days, not at all happy with here early work, the vocal on this Acetate sounds very much like her unique stlye. We can't be 100% Sure if it is her so have posted a soundfile of the full track for you, the people, to decide.
In VG Condition (has surface marks but plays fine and sounds great).
actually, i've just listen to this again and again on headphones, and I am getting more and more convinced it could actually be Kate!
Question: Did you (robbjmc) actually buy this? on the ebay page there was a listen now feature, but it cut out at about 3:29, but this goes right to the end!
No, I didn't buy it...I didn't know about it until after the auction had ended, and I too was very skeptical that it could be Kate until I gave it about twenty listens while making this video.
The reason that this goes "right to the end" is that I duped one chorus and two intros and tacked them on for a longer fade-out. According to the acetate's label, the song is actually only 3:42.
I also have the item description from the ebay page, I'll put that into a separate comment. It seems to shed a little more light on this track, not much, but it's something :-)
That was just a bit of levity...no avarice was meant to YOU personally (just to Hitler and to a much lesser degree, Wogan).
But as for Kate, I don't know if you're familiar with her pre-1977 demos. This vocal of course does not sound like Hounds-Of-Love era Kate. But allowing for some poor 1970s recording techniques and poor playback, I do believe this is Kate. I'd love to know who this is if it isn't Kate...but at 00:21, 00:32, 00:43, 01:25 (etc., etc.), that soprano quaver is unmistakable.
Also keep in mind that this is highly UNlikely to be an impression of Kate. If it isn't Kate, it likely predates her fame by a year or so. And given the similarity of the aforementioned soprano quavering, that would be astounding.
There's no need to get overly passionate about this video...I am merely putting forth a query and as I said, if this is not Kate, I'd really love to know who was singing like this...for EMI...in the mid-to-late 70s before or at the same time as Kate had signed to EMI.
To be honest, I don't care who it is (although it's definitely not Kate), it's a lovely song.
yorkshirestu83 8 months ago
Sorry. That's not Kate.
loooooooo65432 8 months ago
could it be Sheena Easton?
ilsy74 9 months ago
No way that's Kate. Interesting recording though!
chiangui24 9 months ago
The composition is as unlike Kate as it's possible to get.
This is the exact song she would NOT write.
The voice is a fairly good impression of her.
Clearly not her though.
rascalscoundrel 9 months ago
Definitely not Kate Bush. Possibly a Noel Fielding imitation though :-)
cwarn56 1 year ago
she never does an american type accent like this.
tadge72 1 year ago
It's obviosly NOT Kate. I can't believe her fans had doubts.
Sharmilka 1 year ago
Just listened to some other Demos of Kate from about the same time this was made, and I can say without a shadow of a doubt now that it's defiantly NOT Kate Bush... The next question is, who IS the artist singing?
ianhawdon 1 year ago
I have been listening to Kate from the start and I would bet a huge amount of money that it isn't her. I cannot believe that she wrote these lyrics no matter what age she might have been at the time and her voice is so unique that this is clearly not her. Just my opinion though.
burtmathews 1 year ago
This is a demo; the guitar tremolo is too loud, there's no balance between the backup vocals and the main because it is a demostration of a piece.
Nothing specifically to do the artists, a lot more to do with what this recording was devised for.
LunaSeaSane 1 year ago
search for happy rhodes doing And Dream of Sheep. Then listen to one of kates cathy demos or kt bush band recordings. happy does have a kate splash to her voice, but you can plainly see the difference.
danielkeeganmusic 1 year ago
she not KATE 98% there is too vibrato in this voice
1106emmanuel 1 year ago
I know Kate has done a few accents, but always in strange and over the top ones, like in There goes a tenner and Coffee Homeground. This one slightly leans to an American accent, like for instance at 1.42 (you were really here). And there's also something in the pitch that doesn't make sense, like she has to hold back to sound like Kate. I'm convinced it's someone else, who sounds more like Diana Ross than Kate Bush to me... If it turns out to be Kate she once more proves to be a chameleon...
maaikelala 1 year ago
not kate...
MisterBrightside1912 1 year ago
Nope. Not Kate.
alphacanis 1 year ago
This isn't her, definitely not. I don't know who it is, but not Kate. XX
MissNeverForEver 1 year ago
@robbjmc I'm very aware that there is no norm for Kate. But just by listening to the vocal sounds she's making, you can tell. Notice how I'm on the side of the majority here. You think that might mean something?
jordanprincessai 1 year ago
@jordanprincessai Are you assuming that the majority is...always right?
I am not insisting that it is Kate...there are many notes in here that are "off," but just as many that are dead-ringers. But I will not dismiss it just on the basis that it doesn't sound like "TMWTCIHE"...neither does anything from "The Dreaming." And I certainly wouldn't dismiss it simply because of popular opinion.
robbjmc 1 year ago
@robbjmc I'm not saying that the majority is always right. But usually when that many people all agree on something, there's quite a bit of validity to it. And I willingly admitted in my first comment that there are parts that sound like it could be Kate. Kate's style is very hard to pin down, but there are some constants. Her consistency is that she's inconsistent. It doesn't really matter if it is her or not, but I personally strongly believe that it isn't.
jordanprincessai 1 year ago
I've been listening to Kate since I was in the womb and I'll tell you now, this isn't her. Not her voice, not her style of music, not her style of lyrics. The background vocals are all wrong, since Kate did her own BV's 95% of the time. I'll admit that their are a few similarities in the actual vocal sound, but it's not Kate. It's funny how any mystery singer with a soft high voice gets labeled as Kate right away...
jordanprincessai 1 year ago
I'm guessing it's an earlier demo for what became Bryan Adams's 'Everything I Do, I Do It For You'. One source says she intended to sing the song, but from Maid Marian's point of view.
Michael Kamen co-wrote the song with Adams.
MsBkirk 1 year ago
@MsBkirk I don't believe Kate ever endeavored to do that song...the song was offered to her, but she declined it outright. Then it was offered to Lisa Stansfield and finally to Bryan Adams.
robbjmc 1 year ago
do u know anything about me? pfffffff keep your sureness.....
mazzyceleste 1 year ago
It isn't Kate. The vocals do sound slightly similar to her, but only as she was later on in her career, not in the 70's..
katebushisawesome 1 year ago
Quite a nice song, trust me....this is NOT Kate..
babooshka388 1 year ago
After listening to this many many times, I am convinced this is Kate but recorded later than the 70's. Kate is very experimental and is just as likely to record something more 'mainstream' sounding. I love that this has so much mystery surrounding it. Someone out there knows the truth. If this isn't Kate then where are all the other recordings by the same artist?
WozArtful 2 years ago
Could it be Happy Rhodes? Whoever it is, I actually think it is a pretty awesome track.
WozArtful 2 years ago 2
@WozArtful Obviously not Happy Rhodes! Same for Kate.
NotBornEveryMinute 1 year ago
@NotBornEveryMinute true, true.
WozArtful 5 months ago
The real givaway is that the inflections that are slightly kate are ones she developed much much later. Its a good impression as far as impressions of kate could possibly go, which will never be very far.
TheNightPoison 2 years ago
you're right, she sounded like this from the late 80's onwards ie: the sensual world and red shoes but not in the 70's
snowball1988 2 years ago
It sounds nothing like Kate's musical style. If it was actually by some bizarre chance her, maybe she didn't use it because it sounds nothing like her other music? I really don't think it's her though.
SoftTacoTV 2 years ago
This isnt kate.
jenandthumper 2 years ago
This is not Mary Hopkin, of that I am 100% certain
richpat 2 years ago
Judging from the sound of the performance and looking at the disc's label,this record could well date from the 1968 - 1970 period. I think its just a coincidence that Kate would much later develope a vocal similar to this earlier unknown singer.
Cornishman 2 years ago
I'm thinking the same. It's got a late 60s/early '70s sound. There are some harmonic progressions in it that remind me of the C&W-style songs by Geoff Stephens from that period, like You Won't Find Another Fool LIke Me, and Knock Knock Who'sTthere. Mary Hopkin sang Knock Knock on Eurovision in 1970, and if I had to bet who this singer was, I'd say her. It's more like her than Kate Bush anyway..
terpsichore47 2 years ago
Six months later and the argument still goes on. I don't find the argument that she did not do anything like this before persuasive as Kate Bush is if anything experimental. Del Palmer's denial is persuasive. Another theory.: This is another singer that EMI signed as a backup plan in case Kate got on drugs or went off the deep end or just did not pan out as expected
edkollin 2 years ago
nice song but its not the mesmerizing kate:-)
fantomole 2 years ago
This cannot be Kate. Its too repetitive and weak in lyrics. nice try. haha.
sjorsjimmie 2 years ago
"nice try" as in...you think someone's trying to pull the wool over your eyes?
robbjmc 2 years ago
.Well however bought the demo had a great thick mitten sock stuck over their head. LOL. Now ive heard it again Im convinced it is not Kate, my ears are not waxed and Ive been listening to her since 1978 so like to think I have a fair idea on her vocal style. God bless her.
sjorsjimmie 2 years ago 2
@sjorsjimmie
Actually... musicians often do tracks they would never dream of releasing or performing live, just to warm up during rehearsals... This could have been one of those tracks... with a mystery recording doing the rounds and causing for speculation...
There are vocal similarities, but, in the chorus one can hear it is not Kate Bush.
However... Kate Bush has many a time said that FOX were a big influence on her early material.
I think this is FOX rehearsing... or Middle-of-the Road
macintosser 1 year ago
Well Kate Bush or not, I still like this song :)
NoLimitOnImagination 2 years ago
@NoLimitOnlmagination ; Me to!
DebbyTessy 2 years ago
Comment removed
NoLimitOnImagination 2 years ago
I know Kate's juvenile demo work and early official releases, and this still sounds nothing like her voice, and it certainly doesn't have her precocious and unusual poetry. Ugh!
keithdeweese 2 years ago 3
Or possibly, early on, EMI gave her something written by someone else and it simply didn't work.
mj7den 2 years ago
It could have been something produced when she was till in high school. Maybe for a school production? I agree, there is no other voice in the universe.
mj7den 2 years ago
i think its someone trying to sound like her....sometimes it sounds like her...but the music is noting like kate ever did....
snowball1988 2 years ago
It sounds like someone doing a good Kate impression, but it doesn't sound like her. There are certain characteristics that Kate has - making her "t's" sound like "ch's", and the hissing of her "s'" for a start. This singer doesn't really have it. Plus, Kate Bush is the girl who wrote "The Man With The Child In His Eyes" at age thirteen, would she really regress so much to write this?
ourbovinepublicxx 2 years ago 3
It's definitely Kate. I heard it within a few seconds. She sounds like no other. Not even Happy Rhodes at her "kateiest" has that particular timbre to her voice, and NOBODY on the planet sounds more like Kate (her high voice, anyway) than Happy.
The song is like nothing else Kate's ever done, but I absolutely hear Kate's voice. Oddly enough, I also hear Paddy among the background singers, but I wouldn't swear that it's him. I would swear this is Kate.
xenussister 3 years ago
Ihave not changed my reasons why it is or is not Kate from 2 months back but I feel differently about the song. I disliked it then I find it strangely addicting in a good way now.
edkollin 3 years ago
the actual singer tries her best to imitate Kate's voice, and she's pretty good at it, but... it's not Kate singing. This voice is something in-between Maggie Reilly and Kate. Interesting though. A kind tribute to Kate... How sweet...
seedcakes 3 years ago
PS This is Kate, no doubt. There is only one voice, in this entire universe.
mj7den 3 years ago
I love this song. :>)
mj7den 3 years ago
After a week away, my opinion of the song hasn't improved. The lyrics are trite and the music is unoriginal. And for the reasons I gave, it doesn't make sense as a Kate "demo". The only thing it has going for it is the vocal similarity. But even that seems less convincing to me than it did a few days ago. Sure, there are quirks in the voiceprint that remind you of Kate, but overall the voice is too warm, and lacks that childlike, rather chilly texture we hear on the Cathy demos of that time.
ketmaniac 3 years ago 3
Finally, closer listening has revealed to me a telling detail from the voiceprint. Kate has a slight speech defect inherited from her father. Her "r" is halfway between an "r" and a "w". In "And Dream of Sheep" (dawnrun11's upload), Kate sings the word "dream" twice, at 00:42 and 01:46, where it's very nearly "dweam". In this song we hear "dream" five times, at 00:25, 00:45, 01:26, 01:30, 01:49. But the defect is absent. It's sweet, but it ain't Kate.
ketmaniac 3 years ago 4
Actually the "dreams" in this song is where I'm reminded of Kate the most. As for the r's: tomayter, tomahter...Kate has always affected her voice to match the song, from an imitation of Rosa Klebb in one to a Wood Pigeon in another. What each of us hears so distinctly the other does not, but no matter. I thank you for your opinion and for posting it here. You may wish to visit KBN&I where the discussion is ongoing and the folks are always up for some friendly debate. Cheers!
robbjmc 3 years ago
I don't think saying "tomayter tomahter" is a good enough answer to this point. Kate's "r" problem is something I've noticed both in her speech and in her singing. But this singer shows no sign of it. Also, although her voice is Kate-ish in some ways, it's too rounded, and doesn't have much penetration. She's smothered in the choruses. If Kate was singing this loud, her voice would cut right through those backing singers.
terpsichore47 3 years ago
I disagree completely that there's a "problem" with Kate's r's. In "And Dream of Sheep" she sings "racing" and "Dream" quite clearly. There's no "dweam" or anything close to it. There may be instances where her r's are soft, but it's not so in every instance.
Others have made the point about the volume of the background singers during the choruses in DLTSS. I agree that she's never done that elsewhere...but that hardly means that she couldn't have done it here.
robbjmc 3 years ago
Again, no one is putting forth that it is a demo, much less a song created at the time of Kate's known demos. You've said yourself that acetates are still in use...and Kate's voice had become much warmer even by 1980. As for the rest, it's all a matter of opinion and I thank you for posting yours.
robbjmc 3 years ago
I found an interesting vid on YouTube, "How Vinyl Records Are Made". It shows the processes involved in making a master disc. It doesn't help us solve the mystery of this "demo", unfortunately. But it's worth a look.
I'm lukewarm about "Scares me Silly", but "In my Garden" is a gem, mysterious and beautiful. Kate breaking into birdsong - "ooh-hoo-hoo, a-hoo-hoo, oo-hoo-hoo..."
I'll take a rest from "Sunshine" for a couple of days, and then come back for a fresh look.
ketmaniac 3 years ago
Before I comment on this, I'd like to find out what the price tag was on Ebay. Anyone know?
ketmaniac 3 years ago
I think it was a hundred pounds or so.
robbjmc 3 years ago
With a price tag like that, there's no guarantee it's not a typical bit of ebay opportunism. Did the vendor give any indication how he knew it was Kate, since the label names no artists? (Very odd cataloguing procedure, I must say - surely the artist's name would be mandatory?) Producing some evidence of provenance would be standard for someone selling a rarity, I'd have thought. The image is too dim for me to see, but is there even a catalogue number? If not, I'd have to suspect a forgery.
ketmaniac 3 years ago
The price is immaterial...at 100 pounds, it's still thousands and thousands too low for someone to have booked a recording studio and a band just to make such a tiny sum on ebay.
It's very apparent to me that this is an EMI acetate that existed for the purpose of furthering someone's music career and as such, it is the genuine article...but whose? If it's truly not Kate Bush, it must've been some woman who at times sounds stunningly like her, and if so, who is she and when did she record this?
robbjmc 3 years ago
I wasn't suggesting someone set up the recording. I'm thinking of an EMI employee coming across this in the archives, hearing the similarity to Kate, and then just slapping a bogus label on it and flogging it on ebay. But he covers himself by not actually claiming it's Kate, just insinuating it. It costs him nothing. I'm very suspicious of a label without an artist's name, or a date, or even a catalogue number/reference code. We can't even say it's a 70s recording. It could be much later.
ketmaniac 3 years ago
All true. However, I don't wish to cast aspersions on the seller: it's just as likely that he found it as he sold it. He put question marks in the auction and a clip of the song (which is how you're able to hear it here, BTW). He didn't state anything as fact, but rather let the buyers decide. I believe he sells acetates regularly and that this one was no more special than the next. Regardless, the coincidence of having an EMI acetate that also sounds like Kate certainly make it special to me.
robbjmc 3 years ago
I have other reasons for being suspicious. First, why would EMI made a "demo" disc at all? A demo is something made by the artist and *sent* to EMI. It wouldn't have an EMI label on it. I'm not an expert, but I always thought an acetate disc was something made by the company after they've already made a recording on master-tape. Since acetate discs are so cheap, it's a way of testing the quality of the transfer before committing the recording (more expensively) to a metal master-disc.
ketmaniac 3 years ago
I'm not that familiar with the process, but if the acetate were made by EMI for testing, it could easily have had the word "demo" scrawled on it, never mind that fledgling artists also use the word for recordings they send in. I do wonder how recently EMI still used acetates. And if this song got so far in the process that an acetate were made, then what happened to the actual record-pressing and release? I guess these things get canned all the time. But the existence of this one is still weird!
robbjmc 3 years ago
They still use acetates, because they still make vinyl LPs, and pressing them is a mechanical process requiring the cutting
of a master-disc - expensive. So the acetate makes a cheap test-pressing. But they're only good for a few plays (buyer beware
- they deteriorate rapidly!)
Now I'll tell you what I think of the song itself, after repeated hearings. I've transcribed the lyrics:-
ketmaniac 3 years ago
ketmaniac 3 years ago
And every night I see you in my dreams
And every dream I want to last forever
I think about the way it might have been
If you were really here, and we could be together
I believe that sometimes dreams may have come true
Maybe one day I'll awake and I'll find you
Don't let the sunshine in - etc, etc.
ketmaniac 3 years ago
Who wrote that cloying mess? Obviously someone with his head full of Nashville. He's taken all the stock phrases and stock sentiments, and snapped them together like plastic Lego bricks. Then he poured syrup all over it. Just summarising the song makes me put on mah Stetson and go all hominy grits: "She's missin' her mayun and just wants to curl erp an' daaah"
ketmaniac 3 years ago
Now for the music. Discounting a passing dominant-7th, it contains precisely five chords, and I named them all without even picking up my guitar. They make a harmonic sequence that any decent session musician could write in his sleep (and maybe one of them did). If she'd played this to Dave Gilmour as an example of her compositional skills, he'd have said "Don't give up the day job, sweetheart". Forget it - she didn't write this mush.
ketmaniac 3 years ago
So all we're left with is the slim chance that it's Kate doing a cover. But that doesn't make sense.
1. "Demo" means demonstration - a showcase for an artist's talents. But it doesn't show her writing skills, since it isn't
her song. And it hardly shows her singing skills either, being so limited.
2. If she has to do a cover, why cover an UNKNOWN song? Google for it - it doesn't exist. And why a BAD song?
Sorry - as a "demo" intended to impress EMI it makes no sense.
ketmaniac 3 years ago
I don't think anyone thinks it's a demo -- it's an acetate. I also don't think it's a bad song either..."cloying" could also be applied to a few of Kate's demos...not that I'm saying that this is similar to the demos (it's not -- the voice sounds fuller and the band is more professional sounding), but it's not as if Kate has never written or sung a naive song. "Scares Me Silly" and "In My Garden" strike me as perfectly sweet songs that would not set the lyrical or musical world on fire.
robbjmc 3 years ago
There's indeed something in that singer's voice that reminds me of Kate's vocals, but I really don't think this is Kate. Plus, the song isn't even as good as her 70's home demos.
baggizz 3 years ago
ugh...not even close to kate's brilliance!
kashka333 3 years ago
Give it some more close listens. I too thought it wasn't anything like her at first. And it's true, the production and the writing style aren't close to anything she's ever officially released. Try and weed out the backing vocals from the lead. Allow for some silly lyrics (a la "Scares Me Silly" or "Rinfy The Gypsy" or perhaps someone else's composition entirely). It's her.
robbjmc 3 years ago
I found this on a forum where one of the members had asked Pat Martin, someone who had played with Kathy on some of her demos, about this recording. Here's what he said:
japhyriddle 3 years ago
I'm a regular member of that forum. And there has been a disclaimer there that it could possibly be Kate from Del Palmer as well. But...there could be many reasons why these people are unaware of this recording (which does not have a time stamp on it) or ARE aware of it and not wishing to legitimize it. And the more I listen to it, the more I think it is, in fact, Kate Bush.
robbjmc 3 years ago
"All I can tell you is it definitely ain't Kate Bush and it definitely ain't me Pete and David Gilmour playing on it. Whoever it is singing, she's much older than Kate was then, the phrasing is not like Kate and the song isn't good enough to have been written by her or anything like the other songs she was writing at the time and I heard them all. Sorry if this disappoints anyone. This is a hoax.
Pat." - Pat Martin (bass player from the Unicorn)
japhyriddle 3 years ago
To me it doesn't sound like Kate Bush very much. The voice is too full and old sounding, especially for the time period suggested. My guess is that it's just a demo from some band that sounded enough like Kate to be sold for over 100 pounds as a "rarity".
japhyriddle 3 years ago
it does sound alot like kate
it isnt happy rhodes is it ?? or something
caus she can sing some high notes too
but does sound like kate
good find
xXxMysticalMoonxXx 3 years ago
If the dating is correct it couldn't be Happy Rhodes, unless Happy recorded it when she was about ten.
ketmaniac 3 years ago
There is no date on the acetate. But Happy Rhodes never recorded for EMI. Further it sounds more like Kate than it does Happy...and IMHO, it sounds more like Kate than Happy sounds like Kate (although she does have her doppelganger moments).
robbjmc 3 years ago
I don't think Happy sounds at all like Kate, except in the sense that every woman who sings well sounds a bit like Kate, especially when doing Kate covers. And Happy does a great job with those, IMO. Voicewise, this singer, whoever it is, is much more like the real thing, as you say.
ketmaniac 3 years ago
@fraseboy2002
The audible breathing merely proves this a bad recording. Good studio mikes and editing take usu. care of "unwanted" breathing.
I think it is Kate. I've had singing lessons for several yrs., and having listened to this with really good speakers, I cannot see who else could have that close to Kate's singing without having had at least *some* media exposure Kate fans would know of.
Personally, I find the song awful, but that's a matter of personal taste, really.
MadRuki 3 years ago
the singer takes a breath while singing some of the words, which makes me think it's not Kate but I agree the voice is similar in places.
However, it's not the slightest bit like any of Kate's early demos or her style of music so I would have doubts it was her.
Over to you...
fraseboy2002 3 years ago
dosen't sound to me like Kate. Kate normally does her own backing vocals which is a big clue, so sorry i think we have all the Kate demos that you can still pick up.
samgub 3 years ago
Um...yeah..it's her. The song is so bad that I could hardly bring myself to admit it, but that is my girl:(
Jimamy 3 years ago
The song does take some getting used to as it's not her usual multi-layered work...I'll have to agree to that. But I'd stop short of saying it's bad. It's still got her warmth and intimacy and there's definitely a charm to it. Keep listening, it will hook you!
robbjmc 3 years ago
This is Kate Bush..... sorry... but it is. EMI trying to find a niche for kate... Thankfully they decided to let her pigeon hole her or commercialise her...
although..as a demo... it could be worse... with production it could be quite good (ish)
simonhuddersfield 3 years ago
Reasons why it is not Kate: Del Palmer has denied it to a fan club message board. It does not sound like 1976 British music but more like something The Partridge family or Brady Bunch would put out early in the decade. Unlike today with the retro movement people did not play even slightly earlier styles back then. It could be a singer from her neighborhood that has a similar accent.
edkollin 3 years ago
Reasons why it is Kate: Del Palmer is being lawyerly/splitting hairs this is The KT Bush Band not Kate Bush. Bush has a wicked sense of humor. She is trying to do something similar to Paul (McCartney) is dead rumors of 40 years ago
edkollin 3 years ago
If one ignores the main melody line off the top-intro (guitar line) and concentrates instead on only the piano - you can hear the same DNA found on the track "The Kick Inside" - listen to the piano on both beginnings, and while it's a generic I, V, IV, V pattern (in two different keys), there may be a golden thread here...and for that matter, the vocal quality makes it 'plausible' too!
JWinTO 3 years ago
Oh wow. I listened to this now for the umphiest time. This could, could, could be Kate. At least: there are some Kate-esque elements here. Both in the voice and in the subjet matter. And - being almost completely biased in liking everything she does - I really like this track.
mana1618 3 years ago
I know...it's really perplexing. But though I did not think this was Kate in the beginning, repeated listenings have convinced me that it's her. And I like the song too!
robbjmc 3 years ago
E' Kate!!!!! la sua voce è incondibilissima... è solo un demo, un acetato del 1976.... ma è lei!!!
kamiglio 3 years ago
I agree! Wholeheartedly!
robbjmc 3 years ago
Kate Bush ??? - Don't Let The Sunshine In (Demo).
Original UK 45rpm Single Sided EMI Studio Acetate c.1976.
It's well documented that Kate Bush recorded over 200 Demos before releasing anything and is, these days, not at all happy with here early work, the vocal on this Acetate sounds very much like her unique stlye. We can't be 100% Sure if it is her so have posted a soundfile of the full track for you, the people, to decide.
In VG Condition (has surface marks but plays fine and sounds great).
ianhawdon 3 years ago
actually, i've just listen to this again and again on headphones, and I am getting more and more convinced it could actually be Kate!
Question: Did you (robbjmc) actually buy this? on the ebay page there was a listen now feature, but it cut out at about 3:29, but this goes right to the end!
ianhawdon 3 years ago
No, I didn't buy it...I didn't know about it until after the auction had ended, and I too was very skeptical that it could be Kate until I gave it about twenty listens while making this video.
The reason that this goes "right to the end" is that I duped one chorus and two intros and tacked them on for a longer fade-out. According to the acetate's label, the song is actually only 3:42.
robbjmc 3 years ago
Ah, nice bit of editing there :-)
I also have the item description from the ebay page, I'll put that into a separate comment. It seems to shed a little more light on this track, not much, but it's something :-)
ianhawdon 3 years ago
Haha, I actually saw this on eBay! I would have probably bought it if it wasn't for the stupidly high price tag!
I hope someone finds out who's actually singing this!
It's not Kate, but it's not a bad track... whoever it is :-)
ianhawdon 3 years ago
Whatevever turns you on, robbjmc... THIS AIN'T KATE BUSH - it's awful. My goldfish Kurt can do a better impression of Kate than this!
Smillsoid 3 years ago
That was just a bit of levity...no avarice was meant to YOU personally (just to Hitler and to a much lesser degree, Wogan).
But as for Kate, I don't know if you're familiar with her pre-1977 demos. This vocal of course does not sound like Hounds-Of-Love era Kate. But allowing for some poor 1970s recording techniques and poor playback, I do believe this is Kate. I'd love to know who this is if it isn't Kate...but at 00:21, 00:32, 00:43, 01:25 (etc., etc.), that soprano quaver is unmistakable.
robbjmc 3 years ago
Also keep in mind that this is highly UNlikely to be an impression of Kate. If it isn't Kate, it likely predates her fame by a year or so. And given the similarity of the aforementioned soprano quavering, that would be astounding.
There's no need to get overly passionate about this video...I am merely putting forth a query and as I said, if this is not Kate, I'd really love to know who was singing like this...for EMI...in the mid-to-late 70s before or at the same time as Kate had signed to EMI.
robbjmc 3 years ago
If this is Kate Bush, I'm Ghandi, Adolf Hitler and Terry Wogan simultaneously.
Smillsoid 3 years ago
Wow. I want to hug you and then slap you twice, simultaneously.
robbjmc 3 years ago
Sounds very much like a 1970 Spector Production. Compare it to George Harrison's Album 'All Things Must Pass', soundwise!
sgtpepper1983 3 years ago
This is definitely NOT Kate Bush ... but it will be interesting to find out who it actually is.
MrBartolozzi 3 years ago