Tricks Of The Mind - Derren Brown

[dprince97]

Look at:Fantastic rotating coin trick

[qfeternal]

I am a Science teacher, and i have had ENOUGH of non scientists insinuating that Science has the answers and is based on fact! Science cant answer the origins of life and the universe just as much as you think religion can. Both are based on deductions! We dont even KNOW what makes up 99% of the universe and we are guessing based on the unseen! (DARK MATTER) !!! Science is no more enlightened then religion, and the only people hu say it is , is people hu r non scientists and anti religion. But

[UglyPratFace7]

And on the note of hypnotism, no one knows whether it's real or not. Even Derren himself said that its just suggestion that makes the person think they are being hypnotised. You don't if the hypnotised subject is just playing along or having a genuine hypnotic experience . It's very hard to tell whether it's real or not.

[UglyPratFace7]

@MultiBob34 Derren isn't psychic. He's a psychological illusionist and is very clever. I don't know anything about the legitimacy of your paranormal abilities, but Derren is definitely NOT psychic. If he was, he'd be earning more money as a real psychic anyway.

[MultiBob34]

I believe deeply that Derren Brown IS psychic. He is just the opposite of a 'fake psychic' (a 'psychic' that uses cold reading to pretend they are psychic). He is psychic but pretends he is your average magician or mind manipulator. The reason I believe this is because my mom is telepathic and I know it for certain. I have had contact with spirits etc. I know he is definitely psychic I mean half of the things he does has no physical explanation for them unless he was cheating in some way.

[BrandonJamesH]

[Cont...] every year on campus. Sounds like biased beliefs. You can speculate the unknown forever, but why waste time when you can study the evident? Intriguing theories, nonetheless.

[BrandonJamesH]

[Cont...] every year on campus. Sounds like biased beliefs. You can speculate the unknown forever, but why waste time when you can study the evident? Intriguing theories, nonetheless.

[BrandonJamesH]

At first glance this seems like shattered practical sciences and theology, mixed with ramblings of someone who is spending too much effort and time looking for excitement, rather than authentic truths. I'm not saying what he's saying is incorrect (I have yet to read the book in it's entirety, so I'm not able to make a valid, supported point), but I can't help but relate him to many, many other philosophy students who all get thrills out of developing their own fringed beliefs, that I see every

[Vorrox]

An excellent reading of a wonderful passage. My wish is that we all awaken from this primordial slumber of hocus pocus to the beauty of the infinitely complex reality before us. Throw away your good and bad fairies, your invisible entities, your magical explanations, your psychic delusions. The time for bullshit is over. Nature presents itself for your discovery. Behold.

[MoonBoy1200]

Nice song selection :-)

[Eddini]

Hey I LOVE Derren Brown his stuff and so on. He's one of my TOP 3 Mentalist as well as NLPer Magician and Hypnotist. I myself am a Magician, Mentalist 18 years, I do mostly street performing cards the most I do hired gigs. I've been a certified Hypnotist for 3 years. I sell MP3's and have helped people I do as entertainment too. Continued.

[Eddini]

@Eddini While I'm with you on Psychics and Mediums as being Frauds like John Edwards, Silvia Brown...etc. I DO whole-Heartidly believe in Christ Almighty. My Catholic faith has LITERALLY put a positive difference in my life. God does NOT make things happen he allows things though. It's the Devil who brought Evil in this world. That's where Derren and I differ in opinions.

[trantricity]

He does NOT use suggestions or hypnosis or NLP as he calims...Derren Brown uses alot of electronic tricks

[MmoInfo]

Wtf are you talking about

[longlivewhites]

what's this book about?

[xHighallTimesx]

its not a fake accent Perse .. The guy reading this is asian .. id bet money on it .. Im phycic physical .. lol something .

[Clutchology]

Asian? Haha!

Just go and look at one, just one, of the rest of my videos.

[xHighallTimesx]

it was a joke bro .. lol i knew you werent asian ,

[Clutchology]

On YouTube, man, seriously, you can never tell.

[AdamsTeinz]

@xHighallTimesx You're psychic? I dare you, dude. Give me bullet-proof evidence.

[bagdadexposure]

Derren Brown is God!!! haha

[sentrix234]

Haha dude is that a fake accent? You sound exactly like myself when I attempt it.

[ghostsaccount]

i can officialy say what he does works. he has hypnotised me, during his show enigma :D

was sooooo awesome!

[t3rm1nat0r999]

He's a very clever man.

he uses the powers of suggestion and when he asks questions and uses quotes and deliberatly inputs words and figures that he wants the person to remember. He is a very good manipulator of peoples minds.

[ghostsaccount]

yeh i agree, its like he says himself. its not magic or nething. hes just reli clever read his book n stuf, its gd

[t3rm1nat0r999]

mmhmm, i've read some of his books but im not that keen...

[bbsonjohn]

He does use subconscious suggestion in his tricks, which is rare in ordinary magic tricks.

[LordLugburz]

he even states he is not psychic, he uses methods to manipulate people into thinking what he wants them to think.

[fernandoalonsoynwa]

derren brown should go on the jonathan ross show

[feaverz91]

you sad cunt

[shinjukool]

this guy does interesting tricks but is really over simplifying "belief" and the scope/meaning of theological inquiry ..... far far greater minds have tackled and answered these questions .... but that would require one to READ and get off YouTube

[granas4life]

agree with the :"simplifying "belief" ".

second: derren brow tells self in one of his tv shows:

that he doesent belief in the bible( a old document) because he has read a old document and belieft that. -get the paradox here?

[Dostoyevsky2]

Agreed.

[domgates]

i have an important question.

i am 14 years old, a big fan of derren brown and i'm wondering if this book would be suitable 4 someone my age who is REALLY into magic, hypnosis and mind reading skills pleas reply. Thanks.

[explodation]

maybe when ure abit older it will be as at your current age it may be hard to understand. but still may be a good read for ya. the book doesnt contain much of a how to aspect bare in mind.....:]

[Clutchology]

I don't know. I wouldn't say it would be hard to understand. It depends what you're looking for. It's layman, so it wont contain anything especially advanced, but it's still a good read and gives you a few fresh perspectives and approaches to what Derren does.

The least you can do if you're interested is buy a copy second hand or check it out of a library. It's worth a look.

[kinglynx]

maybe derren brown uses his pshycology to get into the minds of people, and make them think hes revealing all his secrets and unveiling frauds, when he is actually using different methods and IS acutally using pshycology,

but what wud i knw, i hardly see him

[ayesoundmate]

haahha " a nooos report after the sooonami devastated asia"

[zoe172009]

Best book i read.

got interested in learning hypnosis and other things. :)

[Elibobbob]

Hmm that's a shame becaue this book is pure fiction.

Derren Brown is a MAGICIAN. Do you believe Uri Geller bends spoons with his mind too. Because this is just the same, Uri said it was the power of the mind. Derren says it's psychology. Why believe Derren, you don't seriously think he'd give away his secrets in a book do you? Get real. Hypnosis, doesn't exist, neither does NLP etc.. Derren gives false explanations to his tricks yet fools believe him. 100% PURE FICTION.

[Clutchology]

Haha!

Those seem like comments of someone who hasn't actually read the book. If you had, you'd know why that comment is a bull strawman.

[zoe172009]

So you prob dont like him then.

well how come hypnosis works then

i do agree he may of put some fiction in it, but not all.

SO WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE THEN?

also have you even read it?

[Elibobbob]

Hypnosis DOES NOT work/exist as I keep saying. Do some research. I don't dislike Derren Brown but Uri gets set up to be caught out by the likes of James Randi & other skeptics but they all seem to turn a blind eye to Derren Brown pulling a similar stunt. Which seems unfair.

I believe in mentalism which is magic, do some research & educate yourself against these charlatans who mislead and misinform you while TAKING YOUR MONEY and wasting your time.

[zoe172009]

i watched someone of james Randi and derren brown dont claim that he can read minds ,i dont belive in bloody psychics and i know its all tricks

derren dont claim shit.

i know he bull shits somtimes but thats part of his trick to get you to belive it or somthing like that.

why dont you do some research on him lol

cus i dont know anything really.

[Elibobbob]

haha zoe you are funny with your last line. Derren claims he uses psychology, hypnosis WHEN HE DOES NOT. By this he encourages his audience & readers to learn the techniques he claims to have mastered. BUT HE HAS ONLY MASTERED magic tricks and how to descuise, wrap them up and present them as something psychological. Hence people are learning language like "I watched a film called do what I say it was really good' thinking the d'o what I say is an embed command' haha. Watch out for Derren fans.

[Elibobbob]

For example NLP doesn't exist either. Ther is this nutter search: Derren Brown colour blind NLP explanation

to see a crazy demonstration of an analys. The colour blind trick is ancient any magician knows this. But like you who read his books, believe there is more to it in suggestive language etc.. BUT THERE ISN'T. But Ian rowland cold reading and Banacheck books instead of wasting your time on money on Derrens fiction. Sure he's a great entertainer, all magicians are.

[zoe172009]

Well in the back or derrens book he says

that you should read Ian rowland cold reading if your interested in cold reading and how it work .

i did a bit of researh and then bought the book (not read it all yet thou) like 3 pages.

lol

[Elibobbob]

excellent, you are on the road to truth and enlightenment.

[Elibobbob]

re: below. Decided not to buy it after reading a review. The tells of tecniques to improve memory? to remember a deck of cards. I can Derren can't remember a deck of cards. But one this is for sure he's miscirecting you to believe he can. He uses magic - plastic gadgets and magnets and suggestion & misdirection only. No hypnosis, no amazing memory.. You too are fooled. Read some mentalism & you'll realise you've been decieved again - by Derren Brown.

[Elibobbob]

I picked this book up today and read a page, the page was about him hypnotising his mates at university with the rhino in the room. I didn't buy it wondering if this book is mis-direction re-inforcing the belief of hypnosis. I know hypnosis doesn't exist and wonder if Derren in the book suggest it does, because if it does I'm not buying in to it. Advice please. I need something for my friend to read who is hooked on self help, mediums, angels etc. Explaining cold reading hasn't worked so far.

[oxX360Xxo]

does anyone know what dvd's he has out? i know he has done 'evening of wonder' but is there another one i can get?, not the tv program but when he was in the theatre? can anyone help?

[MrMusicHunter]

Hes got quite a few, not other live shows that i know of but the tv series's and some brilliant brilliant ones called "the derren brown lecture" and "the devils flickbook", except these really are mainly for people interested in magic and both bad quality. In fact the second one can only be brought from his website and you have to answer a magician only riddle to get to it :)

[owenrose7]

i can read peoples minds its quite easy

[123xmaster]

what page number is this?

[BenVilma]

|That book is class I read it twice and he turned my very naive thinking into that what I always hoped to find Thanks Derren......

I encourage everybody Who is familiar with this book to try and find the book Confessions of a Medium by the Micky hades international its impossible any body who knowswhere to find it please let me know.....

[FrostedLlama]

Im just past the part of the book when you have to learn the words.

I love this book! I like how he teaches you little things.

[Dragon1123581321]

Actually there are two others he wrote purely for magicians and conjurors but I only have 1

[Clutchology]

I know he wrote Pure Effect, but I didn't know there was another one. What's it called? Maybe I can track it down somewhere.

[123xmaster]

the devils picture book

[thatkevOguy]

Absolute Magic

[Dragon1123581321]

look at his face on the binding and then tilt the book. His expression changes, but then what else would you expect from Derren Brown?

[blogologist]

I guess Derren believes in the devil on his book cover.

[bananabilly]

that is not derren brown talking

[Clutchology]

Of course not. It's me reading from his book.

[gvwolf]

this makes me want to go and read...it isnt subliminal messaging is it?...to the library to learn more of our founding fathers XD

[mungbeanman]

Yes, this is truly an excellent book. The only criticism I might have is that each subject he covers really deserves an entire book of it's own rather than a chapter. I personally found the memory section quite astounding.

If he were to write a follow up I would love him to explore and debunk the supernatural and religion in more detail.

I have that Douglas Adams quote on my channel!

[AdventchildReNOLD]

that book is amazing. I am going to use some tricks I learned from this book to make you buy it. DO NOT BUY THIS BOOK. What's the first thing you wany to do? LOL, no, seriously, get this book.

[mrAndersen72]

I've got to get this book, didn't know he wrote one, thanks for the posting.

[Domzdream]

However, when you see, feel (physically) or hear stuff which you'd mark as paranormal ie ghosts, is hard to dismiss. Yes, I speak on personal experience. Also, my dad had a short conversation with an old man that stood in my neighbours garden, who died 2 years ago, after my dad asked him and described him to the last detail. Basically the clothes the old guy died in.

[Clutchology]

Derren doesnt deny that those things happen. In fact, he goes out of his way to explain that they should probably happen. He just explains why it's not adequate to warrant belief in the supernatural, or rather, why they dont mean that the supernatural is real.

[Domzdream]

Darren really is incredible!!

[TheFantasticAtheist]

Derren Brown is one of my favourite people ever. We are certainly not worthy.

[gronboster]

i live for derren brown...this is my bible, and he should rule......i dont care about nuthen!!

[cajferg61]

Clutch,

I wish you'd read passages from the book of true wisdom, than give the dialect and love in your voice to the likes of meer mortals like this man!

[Clutchology]

Why do you assume that we cannot admire a man for his work, and admire his message without worshipping him? Must we assert that if one is not religious then they must search for a substitute to worship instead? Why do the religious seem to hold to the ideal that man must worship something? Can we not apply contextual criticism, but must assume that one man's word is the 'true wisdom'?

This is the pernicious, condescending short-sightedness that I despise in all who share a similar sentiment.

[cajferg61]

Clutch,

Sorry for the admittedly 'not so nice' presentation of my point. It just seems to me that the point behind your presentation is an admiration of the 'man's work' because he refutes the existence of God.

Truth is, we all have to have 'something' or 'someone' we worship. The Bible call this idolatry. It's like, you cannot worship money and God - it's one or the other. It relates to what is your ultimate 'reason' or purpose for living.

[Clutchology]

If you read the book, you would realise that he barely touches on religion. The book is on the human mind, and he only touches on some of the esoteric things it can succumb to.

I won't deny that I am a great admirer of the man and this book. I do not worship him though. I dont live my life according to his word. I dont make sacrifices for/to him etc etc. I treat him in no way like the religious treat their God. 'Worship' loses its comparative meaning if youre going to apply it to me there.

[MaxSafeheaD]

There is a difference between reverence and worship. Neither is essential and only on is rational.

[cajferg61]

It's official! Darren Brown's book will replace the Bible as the most read book in the world, and will continue to grow in readership for the coming years. Kudos Derreck, I mean Darren, oops sorry Derren. I guess I better get his name right if I'm going to convert my worship to this guy, eh?

Give your heads a shake.....looking for answers in all the wrong places!!

[MaxSafeheaD]

I think your dependency on worshiping something is more telling of your psychological state than it is of anything else.

However you are right to a point, science and reason do seem to have a terrible habit of dispelling myth and superstition. Just see Galileo, Darwin, Hutton, Faraday etc.

[JohnnyAlpha8]

My dear boy, science is the lesbian sister of biology.

[gronboster]

i am about 30 pages from finishing this book and .........it's changed the way i think of things......i recomend this book to everyone!! NOW!!

[Clutchology]

It truly is an excellent read! Why it does not have more publicity is beyond me.

[gronboster]

well I'm from Australia and no one has heard of Derren hear.......a few years ago befor i knew who he was there was a small article in the paper about some magician wanting to play Russian rollet live, i think thats all Australians know of him..........never been on t.v. here or nothing.....i try to spread the word and i just seem like some obsessed fanatic........but no one understands his greatness

[Clutchology]

His fame is not far widespread outside of the UK, and even then classing him as a true celebrity is dubious. It's a shame really, but it means we get him all too ourselves XD.

(don't I sound possessive...)

[proteanview]

Caught my interest. I'm going to hit the bookstore & give it the once over.

Welcome to Clutchology's book club.

(you have a wonderful speaking voice)

[Clutchology]

This is genuinely a cherished member of my bookshelf, and thank you!

[esotsm]

you see, and thats exactly it...soon or later in every discussion about religion we get to this point. No logical arguments, just dogma. Thats scary. I would rather bite my own hand of than stop look for explanations and causes...billions of people died because of this "a very non-logical or reasonable...reason..."...and thats why non-logical isn't good enough. And its more about looking for a cheap crutches than dreaming...by the way, I'm young and naive too :)

[kayomara]

but perhaps that is a difference of personality, not of religion.

Anyway, please dont take anything that i say to represent christians as a whole. That is just my personal, heart-felt reason.

but i do like to find reasoning,

and i'm pacifist so noones at risk of dying from my beliefs!

But once again, i can only speak as an individual...

[Clutchology]

I wouldnt call that dogma. I would call it emotional reason. Admittedly, that wont do anything for an atheists perspective on the validity of it, but like I just said, if Kayo is not imposing her views on others then I don't really have a problem with what she believes. If we want the privilege of not having their views thrust on us we have to be willing to give them that freedom too.

Besides, if everyone agreed, there would be no fun little discussions like this.

[esotsm]

Yes, I can give her her freedom of beliefs but that doesn't mean I should stop to argue, does it? And dogma for me is something, that doesn't need further explanation...and this is exactly the case...Or maybe not...I should probably go and take out my English dictionary :) and by the way "emotional reason" isn't it contradiction? At least in this case?

[kayomara]

meh. we're all hypocrits at some time.

I don't see much point in telling people my personal views if i'm trying to argue a valid point, but when you asked me why i believe in a God, that's why. Can't help it if my emotions contradict common sense...

and no, i guess you shouldn't have to stop arguing, or that would be against your freedom of beliefs/speech

[esotsm]

:)But if you agree that what you do is against common sense, there's nothing more I can say...boring :)...and typical...anyway have a nice evening

[Clutchology]

That's what emotional reasons are lol. Ironically my 'Is It Common Sense?' video crops to mind. Emotional reasons don't mean dogma for me, but I really dont put any credit into them at all. Some people, I have learned, just are compelled to respond to them though.

[SenNoSenProject]

Excellent book, thought provoking, entertaining and uplifting. Will read it again right now!

[CulturalCritic22]

we're all cheap thinkers... we think what's easiest for us to believe...

[Clutchology]

But how do we get to that point? That is the issue. Do we just accept the first semi-plausible explanation, or do we search and be sceptical about all answers, having the best explanation become the easiest to believe. If none are adequate, believing none is easier, as we know we have exhausted all available options.

After all, isn't it harder to take one explanation when you know there is a better one out there?

[pauldoeman]

CulturalCritic22

Please change the word "we" to "I". Thanks.

[HaleyMary]

Sounds like a great book. Thanks for sharing this.

[TheWarriorMonchichi]

Yes, exactly how I feel. I love ghost stories. I don't believe them, but I love hearing them, imagining them.

I think this book shall go on my wishlist.

[kayomara]

And you have got to have twisted that priest's words!

[Clutchology]

Lol, I just read what DB said. Take what you will from it.

[kayomara]

Isn't it rather that it's much easier to just say 'I'm not going to believe in anything that I can't definitely prove', than the other way around?

And isn't it more simple-minded still to believe something only because you can see it.

We can't see gravity, only it's effects and the bigger picture. People used to insist that the world was flat or else we'd fall off: it seems sensible, but just isn't correct when we consider this invisible force. Use that as a parallel...if you can.

[Clutchology]

AZ was talking about this a week ago. That's the problem when you just use science as your only epistemological basis. There is no self-justifiable basis for truth, and only believing in what is proven means you'll have trouble believing in anything at all.

Me, personally, I'll take on those things which I feel I have good reason to suppose are true. All those paranormal new age ghosts and stuff? I cant see it.

[esotsm]

I believe in science and no, it's not easier for me. As derren said, religious people can finish every argument with "That's what God does". I cannot.

And if you cannot see or prove something how do you choose what to believe?I mean, If I say "3+3=11" will you believe me just because it would be "simple-minded" not to?W

[kayomara]

It is much harder to prove something than to disprove it though.

Christians who say 'that's what God does' all the time are definitely just taking the eaiser option.

But in the case, lets say, of a law-suit, criminals are 'innocent until proven guilty'. In order to prove that they have commited a crime, you have to have all your points fitting together seemlessly, and with infallible evidence to back it up.

To disprove someone's guilt, you need only find one tiny crack in the opposing case

[esotsm]

oh, interesting.I agree that is difficult to prove something, but what is the connection with religion? Just because nobody wasn't able to prove it doesn't mean it's provable :)(sorry, if this doesn't make sense, i'm not English and struggle with language a little bit).And 3+3 was just example, I could also tell you that there is a pig with 5 legs and green stars all over it. It Doesn't have to be a number system or any other cultural construct.

[kayomara]

and in terms of choosing what to believe:

whether you like to admit it or not, most people's lives are run by emotion. In general, you're not going to something that upsets you or others: because if it upsets people it's most likely wrong.

That's how people learn what is right and wrong: it's what feels right/best.

And in terms of '3+3=11', the only things that we know are right for definite, are the things that us humans have made up: like, as shown, the number system

[esotsm]

and sure i agree that we are influenced by our emotions...and yes, we deside whats write or wrong based on our experiences, but again where is the link to religion? You believe in God because it feels right? Does my green pig than become true if it makes me feel fine?

[kayomara]

lol personally i don't see why not but there we go.

You know what I mean though! Don't get the green pig involved! (and also please look at the comment i've just sent to pauldoemen).

Apart from that, i'm sure i could think of some sort of defence if i thought long and hard enough....

in the mean time, you are exceptionally good at english, since it's not your first langauge, to get your views across so well

[pauldoeman]

kayomara

Acceptance of Gravity is a poor comparison to acceptance of a god's existence.

Gravity is a term created to refer to natural phenomena which are entirely measurable and predictable. Whereas there is no defined idea of a god and no evidence for its/their existence.

Furthermore all attempts at defining and justifying the existence of gods fall foul of the elementary laws of logic and reason and rely entirely upon "personal testimony" - entirely the opposite to the reality of gravity.

[kayomara]

How does it go against logic and reason though?

If it's statistics and logic that you believe in, what exactly is the probability of millions of different masses, and even living organisms, being created by pure coincidence.

It's a scientific law that energy can't be created or destroyed: it's simply transferred. Therefore just from a scientific stance, there had to be something vast energy source to begin with in order to create..well, everything.

[esotsm]

I accept existence of gravity just because everytime I drop something it falls down...Why do you accept existence of God?:)

[kayomara]

for a very non-logical or reasonable...reason...

because i do.

because as childish as it may sound, the hope that there is perfection...a perfect being, a perfect place, automatically overrides the cold, hard 'evidence' for it's disproval.

What can i say, i'm young and stupid and still have my head in the clouds. And even if i'm wrong, what will i have lost?

I'd prefer to spend my life dreaming about somehwhere better than akcnowledging that i will soon cease to exist...

[Clutchology]

Pascal's Wager! Haha! We've all had to deal with that at some point.

It's a matter of personal preference, I suppose, if you look at it from that angle. I was never attached to the notion of a god, which probably explains why I dropped it so easily. Just as long as we dont go around telling people they have to agree with us, which is what I'm here rallying against, it's fine. People can think what they want as long as they dont tell me that I have to adhere to it too.

[kayomara]

Of course, that wasn't my intentions at all.

I'm not trying to force people to convert, I was trying to give some reasonable arguements for the possibility of a God's existence.

And in the last bit with my opinion i was answering a question...

and yep, good ol' Pascal! he's gotta point, i think :)

[Clutchology]

Innocent until proven guilty is so because innocent is the default position. Guilty is the claim. The claim is not to be belived until it is proven. You are proving someones guilt, not proving their innocence. That is why it only takes 'one tiny crack'.

The same with theism. The default is lack of belief. When one introduces the claim they then have to prove it. I dont think most sceptics try to disprove God, rather show why it is flawed. The 'one tiny crack'. There's just lots of them ;)

[Clutchology]

The first law of thermodynamics allows energy to convert from one type to another as long as the total for a closed system stays fixed. What we have is a universe where the energy seems to be exactly cancelled by the negative potential energy. Within the odd error or quantum uncertainty, the mean energy density is what we should expect (maybe exactly, I don't know) if the universe came from a state of initial zero energy.

At least, from my limited scientific understanding at least.

[kayomara]

...we're studying thermodynamics relatviley soon i believe...then i'll get back to you on that one!

but if the universe began from a state of initial zero energy, what prompted it to change into negative and positive energy? There had to be some sort of driving force, right?

[pauldoeman]

I don't "believe" in rational thinking and logic, like you I use logic and my rationale to interact with the world.

You said "there had to be something vast energy source to begin with in order to create..well, everything." You are presupposing that what you are saying is true and that the "mass" was a god (what if there was a natural cause or it was 20,000 gods and that those gods are dead?).

I can promise you, there is no rational argument for the definition or existence of any god.

[kayomara]

perhaps not.

Yet ;)

and besides, how do you know if people don't keep trying to find one!

[Clutchology]

"There had to be some sort of driving force, right?"

They're quantum events. They're uncaused, lol. They're unpredictable, we can only judge probability. As far as we/I can tell, nothing propmts it to do anything, at least in this incidence. It's a situation where 'real world logic' just does not apply. Don't ask.

[Clutchology]

Adding to Paul's point. You said it was a vast energy source. Even if there was, what if it was just energy?

I actually know someone who believes that the universe was created by 4th dimensional super-aliens, justifying it using a similar argument. Seriously.

Oh, and then there's scientology...

[kayomara]

Indeed...bad example then i suppose.

The fact that my arguments don't hold up however, doesn't mean that the arguements for christianity don't hold up.

May i refer you to a person of inifinitely more intelligence than myself (no, it's not God..)

try philos71

he's like, a real-live, INTELLIGENT christian *shock horror*

and explains things much better.

[Clutchology]

Oh yes, very much so. The same applies for people on both sides.

I'm all for checking out different views. I'm actually in the middle of responding to philos' recent video myself. Let's just say he's not my favourite YouTube Christian. You should check out Veritas48 and KabaneTheChristian. They are my two personal favourites.

[kayomara]

watch philo's 'four main fallacies of atheism', or whatever it it's called.

It's quite good.

Although...maybe not as enjoyable for an atheist to watch, for, evident reasons...

[Clutchology]

If I remember correctly, when I saw that video I was on the verge of throwing my computer out of the window by the end, lol. So yes, I see your point.

[kayomara]

Hehe.

i have got to stop literally laughing out loud from things I see on the computer...

my family are starting to think im strange... :(

[Clutchology]

Haha, mine already do ;)

[pauldoeman]

kayomara

If you don't have rational reasons for believing in a god why do it?

Perhaps it's because you were indoctrinated when you were young and you now get emotional comfort from the concept of god being real, beliefs exist independently of what is true truth.

Philos71 may have criticisms of a lack belief in a god (atheism) that is separate from whether or not a god exists.

It's like a creationist attacking evolution, if evolution were in error it would still do nothing to show a god did it.

[Clutchology]

Philos' arguments generally try to debase the character of non-believers, being very patronising in the process, while giving off the impression that he is being rational and reasonable. I call that smarminess.

His arguments are fallacies (he makes some disgraceful assumptions), and his method is one large generalisation. I think my impending video response says that a little more bluntly.

[tadparis]

You do not express your point properly.The idea of what is "true truth" is subjective,as are atheist/theist beliefs.Indoctrination cannot be held as such if the indoctrinators believe it;it is like me saying you have been indoctrinated by an atheist.Belief in God centres around 'blind faith and hence can't be rationalised;you are either in one camp or the other.I do not believe in God, but if you are going to attack religion do it with a sound grasp of atheist philosophy and theology alike.

[pauldoeman]

Ive got a copy and will start reading it on the train tomorrow.

[Clutchology]

If you're anything like me, you won't regret it.

[pauldoeman]

As promised I have begun reading it. He's very scathing of his past ignorant and theistic self, which is always good to hear :)

[DavidRandallCurtis]

sounds like a great book...

[esotsm]

the book is just great...interesting, funny and incredibly smart

[Clutchology]

And, ironically, uses the word 'esoteric' about 100 times.

[DeletedDelusion]

Wow, I guess I know now what I^m going to read next.

Thank you.

[Clutchology]

It was my pleasure.