@B5starfurry And oddly enough allot of the time we destroy/lose alot of our own objects so they cant be veryfied so we also screw over religion just as mutch as we used to screw over ancient science wich really annoys me because having amazing relics of major scientific or religious significence is really important and interesting to learn about to.
I have no idea why there is a religious discussion on a page about an old Greek clock, but anyway, this thing is really cool.
My question, though, is obviously the creators of this machine knew the math involved to determine planetary alignment (or else how would they make the clock) . Considering the effort involved in making one of these machines, is it not easier to do the math? How *often* was this information calculated?
@B5starfurry My guess as to why all the religious anomosity towards this device exists, is due to the fact that this device suggests some sort of E.T. involvement. Lets face it, you have to be pretty dam ignorant to think they don't exist the evidence is everywhere, past and present. Do (some) digging, you might just end up back at this clock. I know i did :)
since the antikythera device seem to have several gear down ratios and the appearance of several locking mechanism around the big gear the device seem to be driven like wind up clock rather than by hand, its seem to be a analog computer operating like a computer. (automata) like the chinese mechanical robots a 1000 years later.
it was actually a rather crude machine, it was shown that in the case of moon cycles error could be up to 20 degrees, mainly because of the use of manually teethed cogs which were usually unevenly spaced. It is more probable that this particular mechanism was a simple teaching tool, or even just a show-off of the astronomical knowledge of the Greeks at the time, and probably not itself used for any real calculations, which could have been done without the aid of a machine.
@HelmutVillam I think that the device was used on a ship to know what kind of year and month they were in and that the device operated more like a clock. instead of keep track of minutes and hours i think the device kept track of years and months to more easily predict the time it took to travel long distances on the sea. i think there are components that are missing. the device seem to contain a lot of gears that makes it rather complex than simple. the device might have used hanging weights.
Have you even considered that although the remains of the actual mechanism was found shipwrecked at the sea bed, the actual purpose was to even transport the new device for the period/time. To show the world what they had made? I admit that yes it took therearound or mabye more than 2000 years to develop it into what we know now as the calender.
If that ship had had made it to its destination you know fine well as I do that the Greek nation would have furthered it into a daily and functional system. They already had plans to do this.
@20CHANCE07 As astrology was by far one of the most important elements to them along aside other things; Philosophers such as Sokrates, Plato and Aristotle formulated ideas about how the world worked. The study of history was created by Herodotus and Thucydides. Artists tried to find more natural and realistic ways of representing the world. Doctors, like Hippokrates, started to look for rational reasons for the causes of illness and disease. They were a technological civilisation.
Archimedes/Antikythera CLIMATIC computer forecasts planets' position that controls galactic electricity flux on Earth magma,quakes,volcanoes ΚΛΙΜΑΤΙΚΟΣ υπολογιστής ο μηχανισμός τού Αρχιμήδη/Αντικυθήρων, αφού οι πλανήτες ρυθμίζουν τη ροή τού γαλαξιακού ρεύματος που διεγείρει μάγμα-σεισμούς-ηφαίστεια: watch?v=HtogdRGxOrU
Was a calendar? a friend of mine ask me to give her proves proves and proves! About Athlantis existence. What can I do? I talk her about ANTIKYTHERA device, but she wants more! I hope a day Athalantis will come back going up her head! :) I believe in Atlantis.....it's silly believe the opposite
Can we all just think about where would be as a civilization if Christianity didn't come and shove these technologically brilliant people into the fucking Dark Ages? If the brilliant scientists and inventors of that time weren't murdered?
For real, things like this make me not even care to respect religion. We are so fucked by it and things like this make me realize how deep it really runs.
@feverxchill It's not the fault of Christianity that it's followers were retarded and/or corrupt and/or evil and/or delusional. It's not religion, certainly not spirituality, that makes us screwed up. It's in the nature of humans themselves. I'm an atheist too, but it's simply ignorant to act as though religion is a corrupting force an sich. The churches as an institution are corrupt, but not more so than a random corporation or government.
@feverxchill Spirituality is an emotion that you may or may experience, and may or may not fill in with a particular mythology, and may or may not decide to fulfill with others. These elements make a religion, but there is yet to be something evil to be added. What is wrong is that people become angry when their spiritual mindfluff is challenged, and that people build institutions to exploit these feelings of spirituality.
@philip1201 No, you're right. I definitely see what you're saying. I felt a bit heated when making that comment so I didn't properly address the nuances of the situation. I guess what I'm more livid about is the fact that humanity can't derive the good out of something like religion, and channel it in a positive way. So I guess my rant is more about how the combination of human nature and religion is just volatile.
@Peter78730 Who's "we" exactly? I'm pretty sure you're just speaking for yourself, in which case - I'm not tailoring my language to suit your specific desires. This is Youtube, not a grade school classroom. Deal with it and don't be so condescending.
It is wonderful to have proof that some men had true knowlege of Sun/earth relationships even in 100 BC. Now why did they mess with Copernicus, and Galeleo so much? Amazing!
@khadijagwen Actually this mechanism merely uses the geocentric model with a couple of perfectly circular epicycles, not the heliocentric and elliptical model of Copernicus. It's an awesome work of engineering.
@LifeForce013 First complete my list of suggestions, then attempt to express yourself. Btw incoherent blabber is not an affirmation of understanding. Please Google the African origin theory, we are all descendent of, how would you put it, "The Black Man..."
@LifeForce013 You're a fucking idiot, learn English, history, some basic historical events, natural selection and perhaps for everyone's sake graduate from primary school; before that refrain from spouting incoherent blabber. It is considered logically flawed to obfuscate and make ambiguous every fucking noun btw.
Man, the Greeks knew what was going on. They had it figured out. Some of the shit they made was only rediscovered by the Arabs and Chinese centuries later when the Europeans were too busy killing each other over religion.
You can see a great deal about how the Mechanism's form and its astronomy relate all the way back to Minoan Cretan times in the Bronze Age at---ANCIENT LIGHTS, in the "Coda" to the new work "CALENDAR HOUSE: Clues to Minoan Time from Knossos Labyrinth," by Jack Dempsey.
"You know what really grids my gears! " j/k but no, this is a amazing find! I'm watching a doc about it on national geographic at this very moment and I'm in awe of how sophisticated this is.
it's a just modern imagination made for the ancien europeen intelligence. we cannot see anything special from that piece of medallic relic.it's really from the ancien greek era? I don't believe.
Love the way the moon phases roll around. To think this has been dated at 56BC (ish)!!!
This would have to be the pinnacle of Greek / Sumatran engineering - what have they done in the past 2000 odd years other than sit around, grow bloody good olives and say "look how good we were?"
Proof of two things: How amazing the ancient Greeks were, and; What amazing things a passionate, skilled person (Michael Wright), toiling away for years can do!
@B5starfurry Sorry, you don't have a clock until you invent the escapement which did not happen for another 1,500 years. It is just an astronomical computer, based on astronomy a little more primitive than Ptolemy's. What we know of the astronomy of that earlier period, we know primarily from Ptolemy's accounts. They had epicycles, which are modeled, but not the eccentric, which Ptolemy invented two hundred years later.
Religion has divided mankind and prevents world peace, no one wins when anyone prays to a god that could never exist LOGICALLY. people who believe in jesus or whoever are the people who believe in war. FUCK WAR FUCK RELIGION AND FUCK YOU TUBE ADS
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The Ancient Aliens show gave a brief explanation of the device and how it was found 100 years ago.The machine dates from around the end of the 2nd century B.C. Our ancestors were smart of course but did they have the tools to make this device so many years ago??? Or did our ancestors have help?
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@CazMo85 wait what do we have here? A retard calling an intellectually honest person a 5 year old. Do you you hate God? I wonder because you insult his Word. Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Jesus saved you from yourself but it is mandatory that you receive it. I hope you do.
@shwmusic .... Belief in imaginary beings as an adult shows a tendency towards insanity.
Typically people start growing out of imaginary being belief around 10 to11 yrs of age. The average emotional age of a religious believer is 12yrs old, explains a lot doesn't it! A ignorant 12yr old zealot can be convinced to do anything.
How can you explain away that the nastiest most inhuman things that have ever been done in history always had religion at there core? You can't so don't even try.
@shwmusic i am sorry thet you were brainwashed as a child into following an imaginary man's teachings thet say humans must all be stupid sheep, following a nonexistant god into a nonexistant afterlife. get some counceling... all religions are cults
@shwmusic This device is actually older than Christianity.
While a bunch of deranged madmen suffering from heat exhaustion were scribbling unintelligible notes down on a piece of papyrus somewhere in the desert, (which would later lead to the worlds most famous joke book, 2000+ years of fuck ups, and a whole load of violence and bloodshed), a few extremely intelligent philosophers and engineers were building machines and solving problems of the universe.
@20CHANCE07 Christianity as Jesus taught it was Old Testament. So to be accurate Jesus taught Judaism, but corrected those (Jews) who tried to interject what they thought or said that God wanted or expected others to believe or practice. Jesus says in Matthew 5:17 that the Old Testament is "the Law" God's Law or Torah, and that it would never become obsolete. So to accurately date the Christian religion one must include its core, Judaism.
@The1stPoster "which would later lead to the worlds most famous joke book, 2000+ years of fuck ups, and a whole load of violence and bloodshed" I love that bit :) all the best :)
Free energy can change the world!But some very powerfull ppl don't want you and me to be free from energy costs,Get a real free energy motor at LT-MAGNET-MOTORdotCOM ,The revolution begins!
Mervelous!! this mechanism proves ancient men were brilliant, especially the Greeks. Almost all the basic foundations of modern civilization were given to us by them. If they saw the news today, how some people do not follow their example , they would be disapponted .I am proud to say, some words of our occidental languages have many greek words: Television, telephone,quality, tachicardia, etc.
this is a machine that was in the time of the religion of the ancients.the way you people define god does not match the definitions of idol worship. when originally re-manufactured in 1911 by Germany, it was documented for Greece that it is a computer and it lets u see the night as day.Greece was idol prior to Judaic mahi.
Sushimax, it has everything to do with God since God gave man the ability, the brains and the wisdom to create things.
This thing also proves that "ancient" man was anything but primitive. In fact, as many such discoveries have proven time and time again, they were smarter than we are today. Man is not getting smarter and better, we're getting stupider and lazier with every passing generation. Technological achievements do not equate intelligence, in fact they actually promote slothfulness.
Even from a theological standpoint, God, or at least the Biblical God, was actually dead-set against humans having any knowledge. "Thou Shalt Not Eat From The Tree of Knowledge"
@TheMOSEPH Anyway, the Antikythera mechanism is something that would probably have been developed and honed through centuries, just because we only found a single one doesn't mean there weren't prototypes that were lost or recycled. The only reason we are not farther along on a technological scale is because many empires were founded, spread, took over the known world, and when they crashed, much knowledge (such as this machine) was lost, and thus we had to start from first-principles again.
@TheMOSEPH In fact, there is a rumor, unsubstantiated insofar as I have not found the urge to google for it, that before the Catholic church
cracked down on such heretic though, there was the rudiments of transistors and radios being developed. Of course if true, that means that your God let a wide-spread institution, in his name, prevent knowledge and ideas that would probably have us at the very least, have the quality of life at a much higher standard. And that is the least.
Why are these people are so amazed that they would have this device in ancient Greece. People have been observing the sky for thousands of years by then. Even though most people didn't have the skills to build something so intricate, some did. It's the same today. Most of us could not build it but this guy does and has the skill. It's less abstract a task than programming a modern computer, since each gear represents the orbits and rotations. They just had to know ratios.
fantastico!!! peccato che non capisco bene l'inglese....non è che c'è una traduzione da qualche parte??? sarei curiosa di ascoltare qsta magnifica descrizione :)
Archimedes, the son of an astronomer, is said to possibly have built this device hundreds of years earlier as similar such devices were described by Cicero. From his descriptions however, Archimedes' devices may not have been as complex. His devices were based on the geocentric model, as is this device. This would make sense since this device shows orbits etc. as observed from Earth. His devices may have been an improvement of even earlier devices.
The comments here regarding divine intervention in the device's creation is just simply outrageous. We have computers today which can calculate the distance to the moon to within inches and place satellites onto distant planets yet no one says that these programmers were inspired by God. What it does show however is that the Greeks had an working understanding of the orbits of the planets at least over 500 years before Galileo and Ptolemy. As did the Aztecs.
@cyborgdale There is aplace in Bolivia older than the GReat pyramids and makes them look like childs play. We cannot recreate Pumapunku with modern day technology. And the workers had to have used Diamond-tipped tools to cut that rock that was used for construction....the place is 27,000 years old
the visoko pyramid u are talking about has stromatolite in it.that makes it 500million years old like it or not. it also proves the hebrew religion to be false by legal definition.actually it proves that the god of fire with mosses was the definition of satan and his people the chosen 1's.
none of you fools realize what this was really used for and why it was kept secret... search "HOW THE ILLUMINATI REALLY BEGAN **TOP SECRET** " on youtube
"There is no such thing as aliens or life on other planets. If there were they would be in the Bible." Sorry to jump in so late, but that made me laugh.
There are plenty of passages in the Bible that could refer to alien interference, it's all a matter of perspective and belief. And what about computers? Planes? Television? I'd love to see which part of the Bible makes reference to those.
But on topic, this device is amazing; it's unbelievable what people back then could create. O_o
it was designed to calculate the astronomical positions of the sky at any given point in time.it is belived to be dated between 150 to 100 bc and it is belived to be on its way to rome.we have been taught that we dont no anything about our past this is just another cover up by our goverments to try and prevent us from knowin our true past.
acomtt move your head to see if it is in his place!!!found stolen in a roman ship and everything inside is written in greek language..read a little history!!
Ofcourse we create things on this planet but this piece carbon dates back to 65BC.
If this piece was indeed created by a human than why did he not share this with everyone else? You know if this technology was available in 65 BC than Jesus would have been working in an industry and I mean no disrespect to him.
@Acomtt1 Finding it on a Roman ship doesn't mean it was a Roman invention anymore than finding a Toyota in my driveway means I built it. From what I understand the device may have been "acquired", as in stolen, by the Romans long after it was constructed because the Romans were infatuated with Greek culture and carted away loads of Greek stuff to decorate their villas.
No one understands the REAL point to WHY there was no other device of such complexity and careful design in that period. This was a theoretical device designed by scientists to prove a point with no real everyday purpose. It would be like having an electron microscope in your living room. What's the point?
@Harletron -- after two millennia, it's amazing that _one_ survived, given the delicacy of the mechanism. How do you know there weren't more originally?
The Tower of the Winds (horologion) in the Roman Agora in Athens is long believed to have originally had a similar device in it, but much larger and water-driven. It dates from about the same period.
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Seeing as it's one of a kind and no others have been discovered, I think it's alien knowledge, no disrespect meant. Plus in a 1000 yrs time, there would be a footprint of where 'said' knowledge came from, not some random mechanics that weren't around in the said time.......
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uberhack, WEdid not even have the knowledge of our own world 100-150BC, how could we have had any knowledge at all of planets that were not visible with the naked eye. Maybe it was created by humans but perhaps the alien involvement happened long before this time to give man this knowledge that has now been hidden from us by our so called leaders.
"There is reference in the inscriptions for the planets Mars and Venus, and it would have certainly been within the capabilities of the maker of this mechanism to include gearing to show their positions. There is some speculation that the mechanism may have had indicators for all the five planets known to the Greeks. None of the gearing for such planetary mechanisms survives, except for one gear otherwise unaccounted for."
Planets ranging from Venus to Saturn can ALL be seen by the naked eye.
Yeah, it seems plausible that aliens would travel over here to help us build a fancy mechanical device like this.
And it makes sense that our leaders would all conspire throughout history to keep it a secret from the little people. You know, they don't want us to know because, if we knew, then we'd know. And they don't want that. That's the last thing they want. They want us to be completely ignorant about how aliens helped us make this machine a long time ago. It is all coming together now.
Perhaps the winch handle is what may have been originally, tho a fishing reel type winch handle would impart continuous motion. I am sure Mr Wright has thought of this.
Why is everyone talking about God, this has nothing to do with God, this thing is amazing. It is an incredible human creation, why is this so hard for people to imagine? We create things on this planet people!
@sushimax God?, who's he. anyway, it IS an incredible human creation correct, but what is fascinating about it is, the age of it. its about 1400 yrs before its time, ie, when other like mannered machines started turning up. The technology of it is way ahead of its time. And the technology had been kept pretty quiet, because if this technology was common human knowledge at the time of its creation, we would have entered the industrial age a thousand yrs ago.
@sushimax It is subject to religious discussion to some degree, a theory suggesting ancient civs were drastically more advanced than history tells us, because the christians burnt all the pre abrahamic history, killed all the engineers and scientists leading to the dark ages. So the people would be so dumb, the abrahamic religions would take permanent hold of the world. See old world secrets and the omega project codes, have to watch the whole thing to really understand that theory,13 parts >.<
@Ryan62686I would tend agree with the point you made. It seems however, that the comments on this page are not about the ushering in of the dark ages due to a lack of public knowledge; it seems as though the comments on this page were about God's ability to create such a device himself. That is why I found this not to be such a relevant historical discussion, but rather a fear based reaction to something that we (as humans) have a difficult time understanding.
So many mysteries our world has.. so many mysteries that humans left themselves. It's awesome to see that ingenuity was and still is. This man reconstructed a broken and rusted-in device from the beginning of history. My hat to him! He is a true helper in understanding mankind and it's path.
For all of you who believe that "God" is some invisible supernatural being in the sky that watches everything you do need to grow up (I let go of santa clause at the age of 10 it's time that you religious nuts do the same) the scientific proof is what it is, (yet you reject it), We human beings are the way that we are because the "Gods" (plural) that genetically engineered us are flesh and blood just like us, in-fact we are them. This is way man can do the things we can do because we are "Gods"
Here is my thinking. Why can't it be both? Why must science be magical? Science being so complex and amazing not be God? Perhaps it is both. Thats my thinking. I'm a firm believe beyond our universe, white holes, black holes, and the path along to superstring theory God is beyond it all. I just don't think it must be magical or "poof". There it is.
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I cant believe some of the comments on this video. How can people be so ignorant as to think that there is no God? And even with all of the evidence around us, people will go out of their way just to try and destroy other peoples belief in God. How does destroying God benefit anyone, when it is God that helps so many Billions of people every day. schwmusic speaks the truth and many of you would be wise to listen.
Antikythera mechanism (Ο Μηχανισμός των Αντικυθήρων=in greek language!!!), is a greek creation!Leave out the bible and sumerians!Are you stupid????This is GREEK ANCIENT TECHNOLOGY!!!!
I am confident in saying that the Bible stole most of its famous tales(Adam and Eve, Noah, the Deluge, Kane and Abel) from Sumerian creation mythology.
Sumerian mythology predates the bible by thousands of years and is the original.
The Bible is just borrowed stories which are retold, and manipulated based on the whims of the Biblical scholars of their time.
What does it show for 2012? Will it blend? And no, I didnt take and arrow to the knee nor did I find it hard to fap too.
bigjobbruce 3 weeks ago
@B5starfurry And oddly enough allot of the time we destroy/lose alot of our own objects so they cant be veryfied so we also screw over religion just as mutch as we used to screw over ancient science wich really annoys me because having amazing relics of major scientific or religious significence is really important and interesting to learn about to.
crazyfills 2 months ago
I have no idea why there is a religious discussion on a page about an old Greek clock, but anyway, this thing is really cool.
My question, though, is obviously the creators of this machine knew the math involved to determine planetary alignment (or else how would they make the clock) . Considering the effort involved in making one of these machines, is it not easier to do the math? How *often* was this information calculated?
razordu30 3 months ago
@razordu30
Machines are much faster and less prone to error.
They can also simulate a patten that we can predict but not visualize in its entirety.
elan2000 1 month ago
@B5starfurry My guess as to why all the religious anomosity towards this device exists, is due to the fact that this device suggests some sort of E.T. involvement. Lets face it, you have to be pretty dam ignorant to think they don't exist the evidence is everywhere, past and present. Do (some) digging, you might just end up back at this clock. I know i did :)
6679891 3 months ago
This clock must have been from the astral plane, dont worry that will all make sense soon :)
mastersusaf 3 months ago
This was the BC era apollo program
revictimator 3 months ago
I thought the Greeks had lousy mathematics. How did they come up with this?
PktMma 3 months ago
since the antikythera device seem to have several gear down ratios and the appearance of several locking mechanism around the big gear the device seem to be driven like wind up clock rather than by hand, its seem to be a analog computer operating like a computer. (automata) like the chinese mechanical robots a 1000 years later.
coldarc 3 months ago 2
@coldarc
it was actually a rather crude machine, it was shown that in the case of moon cycles error could be up to 20 degrees, mainly because of the use of manually teethed cogs which were usually unevenly spaced. It is more probable that this particular mechanism was a simple teaching tool, or even just a show-off of the astronomical knowledge of the Greeks at the time, and probably not itself used for any real calculations, which could have been done without the aid of a machine.
HelmutVillam 3 months ago
@HelmutVillam I think that the device was used on a ship to know what kind of year and month they were in and that the device operated more like a clock. instead of keep track of minutes and hours i think the device kept track of years and months to more easily predict the time it took to travel long distances on the sea. i think there are components that are missing. the device seem to contain a lot of gears that makes it rather complex than simple. the device might have used hanging weights.
coldarc 3 months ago
@coldarc Sailers could tell months and direction by looking at the stars. They wouldn't need this
BurningSun226 1 month ago
@BurningSun226
What if it was not intended for sailors?
Have you even considered that although the remains of the actual mechanism was found shipwrecked at the sea bed, the actual purpose was to even transport the new device for the period/time. To show the world what they had made? I admit that yes it took therearound or mabye more than 2000 years to develop it into what we know now as the calender.
but your point is irrelevant.
20CHANCE07 1 month ago
@20CHANCE07
If that ship had had made it to its destination you know fine well as I do that the Greek nation would have furthered it into a daily and functional system. They already had plans to do this.
20CHANCE07 1 month ago
@20CHANCE07 As astrology was by far one of the most important elements to them along aside other things; Philosophers such as Sokrates, Plato and Aristotle formulated ideas about how the world worked. The study of history was created by Herodotus and Thucydides. Artists tried to find more natural and realistic ways of representing the world. Doctors, like Hippokrates, started to look for rational reasons for the causes of illness and disease. They were a technological civilisation.
20CHANCE07 1 month ago
on the original device fragments there is no indication of a turning knob.
coldarc 3 months ago
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Archimedes/Antikythera CLIMATIC computer forecasts planets' position that controls galactic electricity flux on Earth magma,quakes,volcanoes ΚΛΙΜΑΤΙΚΟΣ υπολογιστής ο μηχανισμός τού Αρχιμήδη/Αντικυθήρων, αφού οι πλανήτες ρυθμίζουν τη ροή τού γαλαξιακού ρεύματος που διεγείρει μάγμα-σεισμούς-ηφαίστεια: watch?v=HtogdRGxOrU
relaxpeace 4 months ago
Was a calendar? a friend of mine ask me to give her proves proves and proves! About Athlantis existence. What can I do? I talk her about ANTIKYTHERA device, but she wants more! I hope a day Athalantis will come back going up her head! :) I believe in Atlantis.....it's silly believe the opposite
Aniva66 4 months ago
That mechanism is just...insane. It's hard to believe that it originated from so far back.
TheXand19 4 months ago
@B5starfurry Thank you.
Can we all just think about where would be as a civilization if Christianity didn't come and shove these technologically brilliant people into the fucking Dark Ages? If the brilliant scientists and inventors of that time weren't murdered?
For real, things like this make me not even care to respect religion. We are so fucked by it and things like this make me realize how deep it really runs.
feverxchill 5 months ago
@feverxchill It's not the fault of Christianity that it's followers were retarded and/or corrupt and/or evil and/or delusional. It's not religion, certainly not spirituality, that makes us screwed up. It's in the nature of humans themselves. I'm an atheist too, but it's simply ignorant to act as though religion is a corrupting force an sich. The churches as an institution are corrupt, but not more so than a random corporation or government.
philip1201 4 months ago
@feverxchill Spirituality is an emotion that you may or may experience, and may or may not fill in with a particular mythology, and may or may not decide to fulfill with others. These elements make a religion, but there is yet to be something evil to be added. What is wrong is that people become angry when their spiritual mindfluff is challenged, and that people build institutions to exploit these feelings of spirituality.
philip1201 4 months ago
@philip1201 No, you're right. I definitely see what you're saying. I felt a bit heated when making that comment so I didn't properly address the nuances of the situation. I guess what I'm more livid about is the fact that humanity can't derive the good out of something like religion, and channel it in a positive way. So I guess my rant is more about how the combination of human nature and religion is just volatile.
feverxchill 4 months ago
@feverxchill Your points are well taken, but we can do without the potty mouth.
Peter78730 4 months ago
@Peter78730 Who's "we" exactly? I'm pretty sure you're just speaking for yourself, in which case - I'm not tailoring my language to suit your specific desires. This is Youtube, not a grade school classroom. Deal with it and don't be so condescending.
feverxchill 4 months ago
hah...
you found it NOW out??
the ancient greeks inveted this thousand of years ago..
haha..
Tolisakis97 5 months ago
It is wonderful to have proof that some men had true knowlege of Sun/earth relationships even in 100 BC. Now why did they mess with Copernicus, and Galeleo so much? Amazing!
khadijagwen 5 months ago
@khadijagwen Actually this mechanism merely uses the geocentric model with a couple of perfectly circular epicycles, not the heliocentric and elliptical model of Copernicus. It's an awesome work of engineering.
philip1201 4 months ago
@LifeForce013 For your sake I hope I am simply being trolled? That or you are completely insane.
nickrohn93 6 months ago
@LifeForce013 First complete my list of suggestions, then attempt to express yourself. Btw incoherent blabber is not an affirmation of understanding. Please Google the African origin theory, we are all descendent of, how would you put it, "The Black Man..."
nickrohn93 6 months ago
@LifeForce013 You're a fucking idiot, learn English, history, some basic historical events, natural selection and perhaps for everyone's sake graduate from primary school; before that refrain from spouting incoherent blabber. It is considered logically flawed to obfuscate and make ambiguous every fucking noun btw.
nickrohn93 6 months ago
Man, the Greeks knew what was going on. They had it figured out. Some of the shit they made was only rediscovered by the Arabs and Chinese centuries later when the Europeans were too busy killing each other over religion.
GaladedridDamodred 9 months ago 3
yes you are immature.
what do b**ers have to do with the video
smallalagator 10 months ago
@smallalagator well he did say knob :D
ArkaiiHD 9 months ago
@smallalagator Way to contribute absolutely nothing and censor 'boners', oh not an erection, anything but that!
nickrohn93 6 months ago
Am I the only one immature enough to say boner on here...
Boner
floysie21 10 months ago
@floysie21 Yes
Zeus3213 10 months ago
Hey you coltec111
Open some books no only Internet my friend and don't comment in this you have no idea
For
kefalonia113 10 months ago
Without the Greeks my dear friends
We all may speak the monkey language today
That's greek Microsoft
kefalonia113 10 months ago
You can see a great deal about how the Mechanism's form and its astronomy relate all the way back to Minoan Cretan times in the Bronze Age at---ANCIENT LIGHTS, in the "Coda" to the new work "CALENDAR HOUSE: Clues to Minoan Time from Knossos Labyrinth," by Jack Dempsey.
37Dionysos 10 months ago
it's a hoax. it was napoleon's alarm clock
interstellarwonder 11 months ago 2
the ancient clutch!!!
To arxaio diskoplato!!! :P
vout23 11 months ago
"You know what really grids my gears! " j/k but no, this is a amazing find! I'm watching a doc about it on national geographic at this very moment and I'm in awe of how sophisticated this is.
Closertoperfection 1 year ago
it's a just modern imagination made for the ancien europeen intelligence. we cannot see anything special from that piece of medallic relic.it's really from the ancien greek era? I don't believe.
coltec111 1 year ago
@coltec111 Believe it, it's the truth. :)
jjobie 10 months ago
@coltec111 you+ retarded troll
ididnotsignin 5 months ago
Love the way the moon phases roll around. To think this has been dated at 56BC (ish)!!!
This would have to be the pinnacle of Greek / Sumatran engineering - what have they done in the past 2000 odd years other than sit around, grow bloody good olives and say "look how good we were?"
wombatg0 1 year ago
Proof of two things: How amazing the ancient Greeks were, and; What amazing things a passionate, skilled person (Michael Wright), toiling away for years can do!
musicartgeek 1 year ago 2
Ancient does NOT mean stupid.
vv55sst 1 year ago 3
@vv55sst it means ignorant.
KodierungHerz 1 year ago
The ancient Greeks ROCKED!!!
AudiophileTubes 1 year ago
We need plans so we can build one for ourselves.
There's a beautiful 3D rendering of an Antikythera on cnccookbook.
JustWonderingHowToDo 1 year ago
@B5starfurry Sorry, you don't have a clock until you invent the escapement which did not happen for another 1,500 years. It is just an astronomical computer, based on astronomy a little more primitive than Ptolemy's. What we know of the astronomy of that earlier period, we know primarily from Ptolemy's accounts. They had epicycles, which are modeled, but not the eccentric, which Ptolemy invented two hundred years later.
NoiseLTD 1 year ago
Having beliefs is fine, but putting religion before any utilitarian decision is terrible.
Enlight3nd 1 year ago
What OS is that thing running on?
stevensonbak 1 year ago 2
@stevensonbak recycledbronzeplate android edition (0.0.0.1)
akkudakkupl 1 year ago 4
@akkudakkupl
lol
slowhandsblanco 1 year ago
@slowhandsblanco :-)
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helikanamali 1 year ago
Science doesn't need religion. Religion is lame and blind.
cm115252 1 year ago 6
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Science without religion is lame.
Religion without science is blind.
DennisFranz 1 year ago
Religion has divided mankind and prevents world peace, no one wins when anyone prays to a god that could never exist LOGICALLY. people who believe in jesus or whoever are the people who believe in war. FUCK WAR FUCK RELIGION AND FUCK YOU TUBE ADS
saythanx 1 year ago
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The Ancient Aliens show gave a brief explanation of the device and how it was found 100 years ago.The machine dates from around the end of the 2nd century B.C. Our ancestors were smart of course but did they have the tools to make this device so many years ago??? Or did our ancestors have help?
Gman01904 1 year ago
you can't make me...get over it
shwmusic 1 year ago
@shwmusic What are you, 5 years old? You wonder why people laugh at your bible-pushing bullshit.
CazMo85 1 year ago
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@CazMo85 wait what do we have here? A retard calling an intellectually honest person a 5 year old. Do you you hate God? I wonder because you insult his Word. Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Jesus saved you from yourself but it is mandatory that you receive it. I hope you do.
shwmusic 1 year ago
@shwmusic .... Belief in imaginary beings as an adult shows a tendency towards insanity.
Typically people start growing out of imaginary being belief around 10 to11 yrs of age. The average emotional age of a religious believer is 12yrs old, explains a lot doesn't it! A ignorant 12yr old zealot can be convinced to do anything.
How can you explain away that the nastiest most inhuman things that have ever been done in history always had religion at there core? You can't so don't even try.
realityreallybites 1 year ago
@shwmusic i am sorry thet you were brainwashed as a child into following an imaginary man's teachings thet say humans must all be stupid sheep, following a nonexistant god into a nonexistant afterlife. get some counceling... all religions are cults
ididnotsignin 5 months ago
@shwmusic .... What's it like to utterly waste your life beliveing in a figment of your imagination.
Want some insight... Read mother Teresa's memories of her life. She knew it wasn't all as they would like you to believe.
realityreallybites 1 year ago
@shwmusic This device is actually older than Christianity.
While a bunch of deranged madmen suffering from heat exhaustion were scribbling unintelligible notes down on a piece of papyrus somewhere in the desert, (which would later lead to the worlds most famous joke book, 2000+ years of fuck ups, and a whole load of violence and bloodshed), a few extremely intelligent philosophers and engineers were building machines and solving problems of the universe.
GET OVER THAT.
The1stPoster 1 year ago 28
Christianity has nothing to do with the greeks?! are you smoking pot at all?
If you had some sense you would notice that carbon dating relates to 2000+ years, christianity is by far much older than this primitive device.
20CHANCE07 1 month ago
@20CHANCE07 Christianity as Jesus taught it was Old Testament. So to be accurate Jesus taught Judaism, but corrected those (Jews) who tried to interject what they thought or said that God wanted or expected others to believe or practice. Jesus says in Matthew 5:17 that the Old Testament is "the Law" God's Law or Torah, and that it would never become obsolete. So to accurately date the Christian religion one must include its core, Judaism.
20CHANCE07 1 month ago
@20CHANCE07 Judaism started around 2000BC. So that would make Christianity around 4000 years old.
20CHANCE07 1 month ago
@The1stPoster "which would later lead to the worlds most famous joke book, 2000+ years of fuck ups, and a whole load of violence and bloodshed" I love that bit :) all the best :)
teramasz 1 month ago
Super!
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Sandrago2345 1 year ago
Mervelous!! this mechanism proves ancient men were brilliant, especially the Greeks. Almost all the basic foundations of modern civilization were given to us by them. If they saw the news today, how some people do not follow their example , they would be disapponted .I am proud to say, some words of our occidental languages have many greek words: Television, telephone,quality, tachicardia, etc.
Rigelcentauri58 1 year ago
this is a machine that was in the time of the religion of the ancients.the way you people define god does not match the definitions of idol worship. when originally re-manufactured in 1911 by Germany, it was documented for Greece that it is a computer and it lets u see the night as day.Greece was idol prior to Judaic mahi.
ELLIVIOSS 1 year ago
Sushimax, it has everything to do with God since God gave man the ability, the brains and the wisdom to create things.
This thing also proves that "ancient" man was anything but primitive. In fact, as many such discoveries have proven time and time again, they were smarter than we are today. Man is not getting smarter and better, we're getting stupider and lazier with every passing generation. Technological achievements do not equate intelligence, in fact they actually promote slothfulness.
TheMOSEPH 1 year ago
@TheMOSEPH
Even from a theological standpoint, God, or at least the Biblical God, was actually dead-set against humans having any knowledge. "Thou Shalt Not Eat From The Tree of Knowledge"
ThePhilosophicalDoc 1 year ago 2
@TheMOSEPH Anyway, the Antikythera mechanism is something that would probably have been developed and honed through centuries, just because we only found a single one doesn't mean there weren't prototypes that were lost or recycled. The only reason we are not farther along on a technological scale is because many empires were founded, spread, took over the known world, and when they crashed, much knowledge (such as this machine) was lost, and thus we had to start from first-principles again.
ThePhilosophicalDoc 1 year ago 2
@ThePhilosophicalDoc ... Don't forget the constant harassment of every aspect of science from the RR's (religious retards).
Had mankind cast off the childish yoke of religion 2K yrs ago, we would have colonies in the farthest reaches of the galaxy by now.
realityreallybites 1 year ago 13
@TheMOSEPH In fact, there is a rumor, unsubstantiated insofar as I have not found the urge to google for it, that before the Catholic church
cracked down on such heretic though, there was the rudiments of transistors and radios being developed. Of course if true, that means that your God let a wide-spread institution, in his name, prevent knowledge and ideas that would probably have us at the very least, have the quality of life at a much higher standard. And that is the least.
ThePhilosophicalDoc 1 year ago
Why are these people are so amazed that they would have this device in ancient Greece. People have been observing the sky for thousands of years by then. Even though most people didn't have the skills to build something so intricate, some did. It's the same today. Most of us could not build it but this guy does and has the skill. It's less abstract a task than programming a modern computer, since each gear represents the orbits and rotations. They just had to know ratios.
Nomoreidsleft 1 year ago
fantastico!!! peccato che non capisco bene l'inglese....non è che c'è una traduzione da qualche parte??? sarei curiosa di ascoltare qsta magnifica descrizione :)
unicataty 1 year ago
I want to know how much a working replica would cost!!! Please tell me
Vandrandelik 1 year ago
@Vandrandelik If this guys would give them the plans, I'm sure they can make it in China for under $10.
Nomoreidsleft 1 year ago
@Vandrandelik
1 billion dollars
woodwhips 1 year ago
@Vandrandelik Could probably build it yourself, it's not hard to duplicate, just to make from first principles.
ThePhilosophicalDoc 1 year ago
Archimedes, the son of an astronomer, is said to possibly have built this device hundreds of years earlier as similar such devices were described by Cicero. From his descriptions however, Archimedes' devices may not have been as complex. His devices were based on the geocentric model, as is this device. This would make sense since this device shows orbits etc. as observed from Earth. His devices may have been an improvement of even earlier devices.
cyborgdale 1 year ago
The comments here regarding divine intervention in the device's creation is just simply outrageous. We have computers today which can calculate the distance to the moon to within inches and place satellites onto distant planets yet no one says that these programmers were inspired by God. What it does show however is that the Greeks had an working understanding of the orbits of the planets at least over 500 years before Galileo and Ptolemy. As did the Aztecs.
cyborgdale 1 year ago
@cyborgdale There is aplace in Bolivia older than the GReat pyramids and makes them look like childs play. We cannot recreate Pumapunku with modern day technology. And the workers had to have used Diamond-tipped tools to cut that rock that was used for construction....the place is 27,000 years old
Vandrandelik 1 year ago
@Vandrandelik
the visoko pyramid u are talking about has stromatolite in it.that makes it 500million years old like it or not. it also proves the hebrew religion to be false by legal definition.actually it proves that the god of fire with mosses was the definition of satan and his people the chosen 1's.
ELLIVIOSS 1 year ago
none of you fools realize what this was really used for and why it was kept secret... search "HOW THE ILLUMINATI REALLY BEGAN **TOP SECRET** " on youtube
personalfunfest 1 year ago
@personalfunfest You have read The Da Vinci Code too many times.
cyborgdale 1 year ago
"There is no such thing as aliens or life on other planets. If there were they would be in the Bible." Sorry to jump in so late, but that made me laugh.
There are plenty of passages in the Bible that could refer to alien interference, it's all a matter of perspective and belief. And what about computers? Planes? Television? I'd love to see which part of the Bible makes reference to those.
But on topic, this device is amazing; it's unbelievable what people back then could create. O_o
sashasally 1 year ago
it was designed to calculate the astronomical positions of the sky at any given point in time.it is belived to be dated between 150 to 100 bc and it is belived to be on its way to rome.we have been taught that we dont no anything about our past this is just another cover up by our goverments to try and prevent us from knowin our true past.
bustacapinyourarse 1 year ago
can it run crysis?
CiniCraft 1 year ago 4
acomtt move your head to see if it is in his place!!!found stolen in a roman ship and everything inside is written in greek language..read a little history!!
akisbalanos 1 year ago
I think they attributed this machine to Archimedes, or one of his disciples.
trippintonk 1 year ago
Ofcourse we create things on this planet but this piece carbon dates back to 65BC.
If this piece was indeed created by a human than why did he not share this with everyone else? You know if this technology was available in 65 BC than Jesus would have been working in an industry and I mean no disrespect to him.
Chanderjeet 1 year ago
is not Greek invention is found in Roman ship
Acomtt1 1 year ago
@Acomtt1 Finding it on a Roman ship doesn't mean it was a Roman invention anymore than finding a Toyota in my driveway means I built it. From what I understand the device may have been "acquired", as in stolen, by the Romans long after it was constructed because the Romans were infatuated with Greek culture and carted away loads of Greek stuff to decorate their villas.
twobluehorses 1 year ago
i think before chisrt B.C;whe were all sitting on our arses doing nothing but eat,,steal,sleep,sex and kill,but one guy did not and made this.
vatossan 1 year ago
Why exactly is it that the Olympic games are 4 yrs apart?
brix42 1 year ago
@jasonstapleton according to documentaries, this was first made 2150 years ago
arcanewinds 1 year ago
This thing is so cool!
I want to make one.
rastarigate 1 year ago
i think it was originally made in uk
doh1959 1 year ago
The ancient Greeks were f**king geniuses! Brilliant!!!!
BluesFan93 1 year ago 3
Stargate
BonScottAC 1 year ago
It came from the stars!!!!!!!!! oh the greeks made it...
chadiushobby 1 year ago
To think the Greeks created such an interesting device. I think it's pretty nifty.
magicman3393 2 years ago
@magicman3393 Not the Greeks.... ΕΛΛΗΝΕΣ created such an interesting device...if u know what I mean...
roryps1965 1 year ago
No one understands the REAL point to WHY there was no other device of such complexity and careful design in that period. This was a theoretical device designed by scientists to prove a point with no real everyday purpose. It would be like having an electron microscope in your living room. What's the point?
Harletron 2 years ago
If it was the ONLY electron microscope in the world, it would be quite useful wouldn't it?
BaubleRob 2 years ago 5
Only one that has been found.
Jopari444 2 years ago
@Harletron -- after two millennia, it's amazing that _one_ survived, given the delicacy of the mechanism. How do you know there weren't more originally?
Renbirde 2 years ago 2
It could actually help sailors. It would allow them to know when the highest and lowest tides would occur. That's just one example.
fldngobm 2 years ago 3
@ Harletron
The Ancients considered keeping track of the starts very important. It was used for religious reasons, keeping track of seasons and years, etc.
Stone henge was used to track the zodiak. Lots of work was done to track stars back then.
PhysicsDude55 1 year ago
Why is this the only example of such a complicated device from that period? It seems really out of place
FraterAeternus93 2 years ago
The reason there are so few is assumed to be that bronze was precious and useful so when a bronze item fell out of use one recycled the bronze.
KentaPenta64 2 years ago 22
@KentaPenta64 oh did one recycled ones brass or are you like we ,, a member of the royal house hold, lol
ginder66 1 year ago
Good point.
liOVERLOADil 2 years ago
The Tower of the Winds (horologion) in the Roman Agora in Athens is long believed to have originally had a similar device in it, but much larger and water-driven. It dates from about the same period.
PhotoOperative 2 years ago 3
Amazing find. Discoveries like this make me wonder what other past knowledge has been lost to time. What devices preceded this particular machine?
DanDerenthal 2 years ago 12
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i think they're wrong,
maybe it's an element of something larger as ufo or others
zhishy17 2 years ago
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This is the greatest achievment of Greece, ever since they build this clock-their technology stucked.
COOH28 2 years ago
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aliens did in fact make this
amblin89 2 years ago
233 months how can this be possible?
infrenis 2 years ago
Alien knowledge.
charliebad 2 years ago
bravosierra
To immediately assign such things as alien knowledge is insulting to the intelligence and ingenuity of our ancestors.
I imagine that one thousand years from now, our computers and cars will be labeled as alien knowledge as well.
uberhack 2 years ago 10
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Seeing as it's one of a kind and no others have been discovered, I think it's alien knowledge, no disrespect meant. Plus in a 1000 yrs time, there would be a footprint of where 'said' knowledge came from, not some random mechanics that weren't around in the said time.......
charliebad 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
uberhack, WEdid not even have the knowledge of our own world 100-150BC, how could we have had any knowledge at all of planets that were not visible with the naked eye. Maybe it was created by humans but perhaps the alien involvement happened long before this time to give man this knowledge that has now been hidden from us by our so called leaders.
1nvisiblek1d 2 years ago
"There is reference in the inscriptions for the planets Mars and Venus, and it would have certainly been within the capabilities of the maker of this mechanism to include gearing to show their positions. There is some speculation that the mechanism may have had indicators for all the five planets known to the Greeks. None of the gearing for such planetary mechanisms survives, except for one gear otherwise unaccounted for."
Planets ranging from Venus to Saturn can ALL be seen by the naked eye.
tjoeller 2 years ago
Really? Really, are you that stupid?
Let me guess, you're a christian American?
FreddoX1 2 years ago
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Hey little Swedish pansy, don't get your knickers in a twist or your balls might shrink back even further.
meserostalking 2 years ago
Yeah, it seems plausible that aliens would travel over here to help us build a fancy mechanical device like this.
And it makes sense that our leaders would all conspire throughout history to keep it a secret from the little people. You know, they don't want us to know because, if we knew, then we'd know. And they don't want that. That's the last thing they want. They want us to be completely ignorant about how aliens helped us make this machine a long time ago. It is all coming together now.
meserostalking 2 years ago 6
@meserostalking sarcasm WIN
ididnotsignin 5 months ago
the guy said one of the dials measures 365 days. But before 705bc the earth would only revolve 360 days in a circuit of the sun.
bullant2 2 years ago
Perhaps the winch handle is what may have been originally, tho a fishing reel type winch handle would impart continuous motion. I am sure Mr Wright has thought of this.
richardyingren 2 years ago
god or not imagine the amount of greek knowledge that is lost forever...
Its a pitty for humanity
panostop3 2 years ago 7
you are so right ...
synison 2 years ago
yeah, what exactly does god have to do with anything in this video?
Fantastic video
AdeptAlbatross 2 years ago
Why is everyone talking about God, this has nothing to do with God, this thing is amazing. It is an incredible human creation, why is this so hard for people to imagine? We create things on this planet people!
sushimax 2 years ago 62
This comment has received too many negative votes show
but everything is with the help of GOD.
flyasfastasyoucan 2 years ago
war too? and plague, wow, god's an asshole!
sushimax 2 years ago 5
@flyasfastasyoucan don't we have free will ? :)
FittiSigmund 1 year ago
@sushimax God?, who's he. anyway, it IS an incredible human creation correct, but what is fascinating about it is, the age of it. its about 1400 yrs before its time, ie, when other like mannered machines started turning up. The technology of it is way ahead of its time. And the technology had been kept pretty quiet, because if this technology was common human knowledge at the time of its creation, we would have entered the industrial age a thousand yrs ago.
mattrix2007 1 year ago
@sushimax It is subject to religious discussion to some degree, a theory suggesting ancient civs were drastically more advanced than history tells us, because the christians burnt all the pre abrahamic history, killed all the engineers and scientists leading to the dark ages. So the people would be so dumb, the abrahamic religions would take permanent hold of the world. See old world secrets and the omega project codes, have to watch the whole thing to really understand that theory,13 parts >.<
Ryan62686 1 year ago 4
Comment removed
sonstormc 1 year ago
@Ryan62686I would tend agree with the point you made. It seems however, that the comments on this page are not about the ushering in of the dark ages due to a lack of public knowledge; it seems as though the comments on this page were about God's ability to create such a device himself. That is why I found this not to be such a relevant historical discussion, but rather a fear based reaction to something that we (as humans) have a difficult time understanding.
lizzvonblum 1 year ago
Create something form nothing, can u? off-course not. here it's comes to talk about GOD.
TheCitcyasir 1 year ago
So many mysteries our world has.. so many mysteries that humans left themselves. It's awesome to see that ingenuity was and still is. This man reconstructed a broken and rusted-in device from the beginning of history. My hat to him! He is a true helper in understanding mankind and it's path.
Machforr 2 years ago 2
Just read the book "Decoding the Heavens" by Jo Marchant. It is a exhilarating to see Wright and his model..thanks!
prakar 2 years ago
shut up you all
Jecagao 2 years ago 8
For all of you who believe that "God" is some invisible supernatural being in the sky that watches everything you do need to grow up (I let go of santa clause at the age of 10 it's time that you religious nuts do the same) the scientific proof is what it is, (yet you reject it), We human beings are the way that we are because the "Gods" (plural) that genetically engineered us are flesh and blood just like us, in-fact we are them. This is way man can do the things we can do because we are "Gods"
HOODYWOODRECORDS 2 years ago
Comment removed
TheMadPorcupine 2 years ago
Here is my thinking. Why can't it be both? Why must science be magical? Science being so complex and amazing not be God? Perhaps it is both. Thats my thinking. I'm a firm believe beyond our universe, white holes, black holes, and the path along to superstring theory God is beyond it all. I just don't think it must be magical or "poof". There it is.
lightingbird 2 years ago
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I cant believe some of the comments on this video. How can people be so ignorant as to think that there is no God? And even with all of the evidence around us, people will go out of their way just to try and destroy other peoples belief in God. How does destroying God benefit anyone, when it is God that helps so many Billions of people every day. schwmusic speaks the truth and many of you would be wise to listen.
zoomforever 2 years ago
@zoomforever because there is NO PROOF OF GOD AT ALL
ididnotsignin 5 months ago
First time working in 2,000 years? Impressive.
ErichoTTA 2 years ago 6
really nice handiwork here.
totoroben 2 years ago 4
Antikythera mechanism (Ο Μηχανισμός των Αντικυθήρων=in greek language!!!), is a greek creation!Leave out the bible and sumerians!Are you stupid????This is GREEK ANCIENT TECHNOLOGY!!!!
morfovoun 2 years ago 3
Ancient Greek techonology!PROUD TO BE GREEK!!!!!
morfovoun 2 years ago
I am confident in saying that the Bible stole most of its famous tales(Adam and Eve, Noah, the Deluge, Kane and Abel) from Sumerian creation mythology.
Sumerian mythology predates the bible by thousands of years and is the original.
The Bible is just borrowed stories which are retold, and manipulated based on the whims of the Biblical scholars of their time.
OctoErra 2 years ago 5
OctoErra. you are correct.
DirzoRasec 2 years ago
You stay classy, religion.
lol, religion.
Tony3821 2 years ago
guuuuuuuuuuaaaaauuuuuu que dijo.
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jeamsanna 2 years ago
very well done!
ravensmomscorp76 2 years ago
And then religion came in a fucked it all up for 1600 years. Thank you jesus!
TheFluffyDuck 2 years ago 6
muhahaha
S0c0J0e 2 years ago