Pseudoskepticism supported by the ignorant, dismissed by the wise.
Homeopathy is science backed by studies done by 3 Nobel Laureate scientists in Chemistry(Hans Von Euler), Physics(Brian Josephson) and Physiology & Medicine(Luc Montagnier) and numerous other scientists who are specialists in their fields of work.
@PeeEsPee Homeopathy is total quack science. The rules of Homeopathy are:
1. Like cures like. So a homeopathic solution for insomnia would be caffeine.
2. The less of the substance you take, the stronger it is. So you can overdose from not taking the medication.
It isn't complicated to understand why homeopathy is a complete fraud. The only way for homeopathy to work would be if the laws of physics were changed, which is of course, impossible.
So the pathogens, the fecal matter, and dangerous chemicals that all the water in the world has been part of for millions of years has no effect in the water they use for their homeopathic therapy? That stuff would also dilute in the same proportions and would thus "be much more effective".. This is where homeopaths fail. Homeopathy is an outright scam.
@UnderManlac well yeah water is full of shit like that! and if it is a scam then why is it common place in many countries, and why am i not dead or seriously ill yet?
@UnderManlac have you ever used it? if you havnt then toddle off cos you have nothing to go on other than what these other youtube professors, and probably the dail mail have told you
3)Acute diseases and Chronic diseases - Hahnemann was the first to divide diseases into acute diseases and chronic diseases and it's accepted in Modern medicine today.
4)Metastases of chronic disease - Hahnemann was the first to propound that chronic diseases can metastase from one part of the body to another part. E.g. colon cancer can metastase to the lungs, etc.
It is in the cure of chronic diseases that Homeopathy makes it's mark
Samuel Hahnemann gave 4 ideas/concepts to Modern medicine which are being used to this day:
1) The Law of Similars -This is the principle on which modern vaccinations are applied.
Homeopaths differ with the kind of vaccinations and the methods used.
2)Genetic cause of chronic disease - Hahnemann discoverd this about 250 years ago while modern medicine has come to accept only in the last 50 years or so.
@Amygdala1OO you tried it? i have been using it all mylife for pretty much everything- cold, flu cuts and bruises headaches etc and it works! simple- I am not one of the ''scented candle'' types either
@mr420B You joking? colds, flu, cuts, bruises, headaches get better anyway. It's called regression to the mean. you don't need to waste your money on that bollocks.
@Amygdala1OO yeh sure they go away, but that doesnt mean they cant be cured/ prevented from becoming infected/ encouraged to heal quicker etc etc- you could say that about most ailments that people go to the hospital or doctors for
@mr420B IF they could be healed quicker, there would be proper clinical trials demonstrating this. There are no such trials to support homeopathy. By proper I mean a trial that is independent and can be repeated to show the same results. The thing you need to be aware of with homeopathic "remedies" is that there is no active ingredient present. Can you agree that's not a good start....? :)
@Kenzofeis You're talking as if "it" has substance...a real entity that can actually help. Why do you think scientists at clinical trials have one set of patients on the actual drug and the other set on a placebo? To rule out the effect the human mind has on its own well being. These homeopathic drugs are simply that, placebo drugs. Just go to the shops, buy some Tic Tacs, I guarantee they're cheaper, and convince the sick they're a wonder drug. Guaranteed they contain more useful compounds too!
lemon water for about a week will help clean out your digestive system, and will help purify the body. Mother Nature has treatments and cures for all the ailments of the human race, sadly not one for the insanity of human race who ignores her and destroys her......at least not yet.
@Surathan so you dont actually have ANY experience at all and your going on what random people have told you...who also have no experience an are probably just jumping on whatever bandwagon youre told to by the drug companies.... good luck in life with that approach sunshine
@Surathan so im the one spewing retarded drivel even though i have 20 years experience in the field we are talking about?? are you now some kind of expert cos of a youtube video of a fat, ignorant, retarded gentleman + random people throwing their, largely worthless, two cents in- or are ya jus opposing something you dont know about for the sake of it?
Read "Structure of Water" by Rustum Roy, William Tiller and others. Roy is the founder of the material sciences department at Penn State, Tiller was head of Stanford's. Read Georgos Agnagnostatos' report on homeopathic clathrates. Agnagnostatos is a nuclear physicist. These are science heavy weights who are introducing supramolecular chemistry as the basis for homeopathy. It adds up.
What doesn't add up are PSEUDOskeptics' claims that homeopathy cures are due solely to the placebo effect..
@mr420B Homeopathy is a scam. Right from the outset of the explanation of homeopathy it's obvious. The very statement "water has memory" is an obvious red flag and any intelligent person should recognize it as such. Only the incredibly gullible would fall for it.
I have a paperclip that keeps alligators away. I've shown it to hundreds of people and they will agree that it works. There are no alligators in our city. Proof it works and people experienced it's awesome power.
@UnderManlac as i keep saying to every one- dont use it if you dont want to, no ones forcing you- although there are homoeopaths working for the NHS so it cant be total bullshit- keep pumping your body full of everything the drugs companies throw at you, after all theyre making billions- so they arent going to lie to get money, surely (!)
You didn't follow the proper dilution procedures. Many studies have shown that it is efficacious beyond the expected placebo effect. Do we fully understand why it works? No, we don't. However, recognizing that it does work and understanding why it works are two entirely different issues.
Yeah, the studies do exist. You can google it if you want to, or you could contact a homeopathic practitioner and ask them for more detailed information.
@Mike62075 I've done the same thing, most say the evidence gave no support, or were not repeatable by others. Things that we don't understand like Lithium, are repeatable, thus they are considered to work.
when something is not repeatable, it's not considered to work.
It's not *as* effective as standard medicine in most cases. Bear in mind that scientific studies can "prove" one thing, and then an entirely different set of scientific studies can "prove" the opposite.
@Mike62075 that's why there are controls and real world tests, review your biostatistics notes. When the effectiveness is no greater than placebo, it's just placebo.
@mr420B And that's exactly the problem. "believing". It's all just based on beliefs. You can be open minded till the cows come home, but the fact remains, that homeopathy is absolutely nothing except a placebo effect.
There isn't anything scientific about it. Memory in water does not exist. And so arrogant the homeopaths are. They happily overthrow and invalidate the actual scientific world just to pretend their quackery has validity.
@mr420B No, what he's saying is that homeopathy makes NO sense to even a moderately intelligent person. Only the gullible will buy into that theory, and there are a lot of gullible people out there it seems, including you.
Research has been repeatedly done and it has been found to be no better than the placebo effect, but you choose to ignore true scientific findings and follow the anecdotal accounts (or "people's word" - since I don't believe you'd understand that word).
It has been scientifically proven that the concussion proses increases the difference of a high dilute and plain water. More so that the difference between a high dilute and plain water.
Homeopathy is not just a substance highly diluted in water, it is simultainiously concused.
my mum is a homeopath and i agree that it is bollocks lol. trust a guy with 17 years experience of it -_-. however you dont really have a clue what you are on about.
@joethehappyfish my mother is also a homoepath and i used to be sceptical and never believed or understood why it worked- however I have realised that in my 20 odd years on this planet I have only used homoepathy and it has worked, i am perfectly healthy and am not dead!
@mr420B "my mother is also a homoepath and i used to be sceptical and never believed or understood why it worked- however I have realised that in my 20 odd years on this planet I have only used homoepathy and it has worked, i am perfectly healthy and am not dead!"
So 1skyhand does not believe in dowsing either, despite it being successfully used for thousands of years. I do not wish to be tested by a magician who by slight of hand can "fix" any experiment. I don't want a million pounds, I dowse water, lost objects/pets for free. If I wanted to do it for money I would work dowsing for the oil companies as Yuri Geller does and gets paid millions to do so.
Arnicaworks is a dowser. I am not surprised. Something where the practitioner believes that they are really doing something, but can't be proved under controlled conditions. A test protocol has been already setup by someone trying for the million dollar challenge. Go for it or is there a homeopathic oath that is against proof-- Thou must not test. One must remember that ignorance, anecdotes, and faith that it works is our foundation.
there are natural medicins that can be used that can keep a person 100% healthy without mainstream medicins or even homeapathy. though homeapathy is a much better alternative than mainstream medicin it is all pretty much overused by the masses.
being into alternative medicin for a while now and having nothing but success in it, i must say i have never heard of this water memory deluting idea that everyone wants to use to attack homeapathy.
I agree there is too much spoken about "the memory of water" and dilution. Homeopathy actually means treating with a similar energy. We don't know how it works, just that it does. Using double blind trails is not a good way to test homeopathy as the remedy is matched to the indvidual not to the disease. I treat people not diseases. Science I am sure will one day be advanced enough to explain homeopathy, until then my patients return to me when they are sick because they know it works for them.
Ok satire. Make a new one this time making real homeopathic remedies. The site Hpathy can show you how. Says you can even use tap water or spring water. Many remedies can be made from easy to get starting materials. There are 1000's of things. There is one even made from the Berlin Wall, if you can find a piece. I'm not kidding you can look it up. I'm not sure what it is supposed to do, but you can find out. It may become needed some day; you never know.
Hilarious--how about these: Lac Puma C--mountain lion milk Lunar EC-- Lunar Eclipse Sol--sun light or expose to various colors of light .. red, orange,indigo and 7 others also Spectrum exposed to all colors Cococolaniam--coke classic TREX--tyrannosaurus rex Carb Biox--carbon dioxide CRT--cathode ray tubes Tempus Frigus--cooling Tempus Ardoris--heating you can make 3 from a magnet Magnetus Polus Arctus--north magnetis Poar Australis--south magnetis Polus Ambo--both poles and the list can go on
Homeopathy can't possibly be placebo effect because it cures subjective symptoms of non self-limiting chronic diseases such as chronic tonsillitis in infants & children and tumours in animals.
Infants and animals are not subject to the placebo effect.
Some Allopathy doctors in the Finlay Institute in Cuba have done excellent use of Homeopathy prophylaxis in the prevention of Leptospirosis outbreak during hurricane season in Cuba.
Homeopathy should evolve beyond the 18th century. Personal experiences and the strong belief that it work in not enough. Homeopaths should use the scientific method and double-blind studies that are well designed and repeatable. Homeopaths will never do this because when it has been done all effects are consistent with the placebo effect.
"The odds ratio for the 26 good-quality studies was 1.66 ... However, we found insufficient evidence from these studies that homeopathy is clearly efficacious for any single clinical condition. Further research on homeopathy is warranted provided it is rigorous and systematic." (The Lancet).
Homeopathy is being used under US FDA approval to treat brain cancer. One study shows complete regression of tumors in 50% of patients. For more info google ruta md anderson and ohsu homeopathy.
Millions of people use homeopathy around the world and testify to the fact that it does not just work but works beautifully. That is certainly my personal experience.
Anyone who has been dissuaded from trying it has had something precious stolen from them--they just don't know it -- yet!
The term "US FDA approval" is misleading at best. The FDA just allows homeopathic remedies because there's no evidence that it does harm. Being nothing but water, it won't cause harm unless contaminated.
The FDA does NOT approve ANY homeopathic remedy for actual medical treatment.
I can only imagine that you have not used homeopathic medication. It is fine for you to make fun of something that you haven't experienced the benefit from. I am a qualified nurse who uses both allopathic medication and homeopathic medication, don't dismiss it just because you don't understand it.
Well said, emunk. The dismissal of this highly effective, safe and affordable medicine, which aims at curing conditions rather than suppressing them, is bizarre to me.
Some people seem determined to worship the bars of their own prison.
How do you "clear" the memory of water so you don't have any harmful materials damaging people?
What I mean is: the claim is that the water retains "memory" of homeopathic medicine (since there's a nil chance of any medicine molecules still remain in the solution). Why doesn't the water retain memory of anything that would be considered negative homeopathically (not exactly sure what counts as poison with homeopathy)? Distilled water is not possible in your view; it will have memory still.
I don't see how this is any different at all from trying to clean out a test tube by repeatedly rinsing it with distilled water. According to homeopathy, wouldn't that imbue that water with the characteristics of whatever material was in the test tube? If it changes the structure of the water (which is the liquid vessel), then shouldn't we be able to see that under an electron microscope? This raises a lot more questions than it answers and doesn't really answer the question at all.
However, how you described the claim to me should still show some statistical difference in the bonding angles of the molecules under an electron microscope.
"However, how you described the claim to me should still show some statistical difference in the bonding angles of the molecules under an electron microscope."
I don't know wighty. I can send you the link on the magnetic nuclear resonance testing if you like. I heard one fan of homeopathy claim the optical density of the water also changes, but I don't know what he's basing this claim on.
I didn't mean to be antagonistic towards you and apologize if I came off that way; you have been very reasonable. I going to remain highly skeptical of homeopathy until they have a coherent explanation that doesn't disappear in a double-blind environment (there's a 5 part video from Horizon TV (or something similar sounding)) and has consistent evidence. Thank you for taking this time.
Yeah, but "some scientists" amounts to ONE study by a Homeopathic think tank. If one is going to discard pharmaceutical research because it's done by pharmaceutical companies, then the Conde study is equally suspect.
For those who call homeopathy " a new age craze" should get their facts right homeopathy is not new age it was first used in Tibet over two thousand years ago. It was made popular in Europe in the 1700s by Samuel Hahnemann and was the main system of medicine in the 19th century in Europe and the US so it is hardly " a new age craze". It is the main system of medicine in India and over half the doctors in France are qualified homeopaths. It would not have lasted so long had it not worked.
I know homeopaths love to say these thing but it's simply not true.
"Current usage around the world varies from two percent of people in the United Kingdom and the United States using homeopathy in any one year[23][24] to 15 percent in India, where it is considered part of Indian traditional medicine."
With only 15% using it it can hardly be described as the main system.
I only know when I visited India most the people I met used homeopathy as their main system of medicine. The cost of homeopathic medicine is very, very small and it is a faction of the cost of allopathic drugs.
But it's a helluva lot more expensive than unbranded (or even branded drinking) -water. I lived in India for 5 years and almost never heard about homeopathy there. People are really big on Medicine, or "Allopathy" as you call it. It's a village phenomenon.
Homeopathy is not expensive and it is far cheaper than bottle water. The Soham Foundation in India treat hundreds of people every day with homeopathy and it is free for the local people as it is funded by homeopaths in the west. Unfortunately as a country becomes wealthier the drugs companies and Biotech industries move in along with McDonalds as the people want what the west has. It is only when people suffer the diseases of the west that they want to turn back to a more natural lifestyle.
The Soham Foundation can't treat anyone with homeopathy since homeopathy does nothing.
And India has a shitload of diseases that real medicine has eradicated. There's nothing healthy in a natural lifestyle with TB, Small-pox, Plague etc.
I understand why you fear India's growing wealth. With that comes education and less room for quackery.
The Soham Foundation gets an amazingly high level of success. Next visit to India go and see for yourself. I agree with you that sometimes allopathy has its part to play in the treatment of serious disease and where there is poverty there is always disease. Having adequate good natural organic food and good hygiene will keep most people healthy with strong immune systems. Sadly we see in rich countries that TB is not eradicated but instead is actually increasing despite vaccines and drugs.
Actually the body does all the curing homeopathy just helps speed up the process. Homeopathy cannot cure thirst as thirst is a state and not an illlness. With regards to water I do try to help find water for people as I am a dowser as well as a homeopath. So thank for your kind words.
Well, distilled water is going to be cheaper than actual medicine, that's a given.
The fact that it's cheaper however doesn't mean anything, as all the large sample size research about homeopathy shows it has no real effect beyond placebo. It'd be even cheaper for me to go from person to person, slap them and say "get over it" but that wouldn't be better than seeing an actual doctor or getting real medicine.
Have you ever tried homeopathy? Of course not or you wouldn't believe it is just diluted water. So called real medicines all have side effects some more serious than others. My family have always used homeopathy to treat any health problems. None of us including my 92 year old father have taken as much as an aspirin in over twenty years. I will stick with what works for us and you can have your drugs and side effects and we will have our perfect health with herbs and homeopathy thank you.
Of course you see no side effects, it's just water. I have tried homeopathy. I started looking into it more when I found that the homeopathic cold remedy I was taking had no actual impact on my symptoms. Homeopathy is the practice or repeatedly diluting a substance to the point where there's literally no detectable molecules of the "active ingredient" left. You'd need to literally drink a swimming pool sized quantity of the remedy to encounter even a single molecule of the active ingredient.
Homeopathy is not just water, it is an energised substance, matching the symptom picture of the person.
You say you took a homeopathic remedy for a cold and it didn't improve your symptoms. What remedy did you take? What were your symptoms? Did you self prescribe?There are hundreds of different remedies for colds depending on the symptoms, you obviously took the wrong one that time.
Sounds like someone bought the homeopathists bull shit. Have you ever done any science, ever? I mean, even something basic like if you dilute something millions of times over into water it's not an effective medicine?
Homeopathy is not just a substance diluted in water. It is specially prepared by a strict process in a lab. However to be truly homeopathic it has to match the presenting symptoms. For instance if you were unable to sleep because of over excitement and you were feeling "buzzy" the remedy Coffea might be prescribed to treat you. It would work in the same way taking the material dose which would be a small cup of coffee. Homeopathy is treating like with like not just diluting something, got it?
Yes, that is part of the process and the succussion seems to help activate the healing energy of the substance. However I repeat the most important part of homeopathy is the law of similars, without this principle it cannot work. An example of this would be the drug Ritalin which is bascially speed but when given to a hyperactive child calms them down this is therefore homeopathic for that child.
Even if the 'law' of similars was valid (which it has never been proven to be), how do you ensure that there is absoltely no contaminents in the dilution medium that would affect the eventual 'medicinal' effects?
Even an atom of a contaminent would make the solution worthless.
It WILL work if it is the true similium. It is not necessary to be so worried about a small contaminent in the water as if the body does not recognise the conaminent as a similium it will not react to it even if it has been potentised. However if the water say has for example chlorine in it and was made into a remedy it may be curative to someone who gets asthma at the swimming baths from the fumes. It would have no reaction in someone not needing the remedy chlorine. Now do you understand?
But seeing as the 'law' of similars states that the 'remedy' in question is something that will cause the symptoms that it is supposed to cure, a potentised contaminant in the solution then will not only 'cure' one set of symptoms, it will then cause a second set of symptoms, thereby making the person ill again.
And I'm not coming at this from a layman point of view, I actually have a diploma in homeopathy from the British Institute of Homeopathy.
I am sorry but I cannot believe that you have studied homeopathy as you have failed to grasp any of the basic principles. A homeopathic remedy cannot cause a second set of symptoms to make a person ill again. I have been practising and teaching homeopathy for twenty years and have never seen homeopathy make anyone ill again after they have been made better. I do not know much about the Bristish Institute of Homeopathy but I wil certainly contact them tomorrow to question their teachings.
Really? The basic core of homeopathy (the law of similars) is that certain substances cause symptoms that appear to be the same as the symptoms of a disease. Diluting the substance magically increases the substances potency. Therefore, a contaminant in the original solution will cause a second set of symptoms. it's your logic...
The fact that it doesn't shows that there is *no* effect at all.
Homeopathy cannot cause any illness. If you have really studied homeopathy (which I doubt) you should know that. You could give twenty different wrong remedies (contaminants) to a person and they will not react until they are given the true simillium and it cures.
I think you may be thinking of "provings" which as a homeopath (if you really are) you will know will be different in each person. I have been on some provings which have indeed for a short period produced symptoms until I stopped the remedy. I have also been on provings which produced little symptoms. Also symptoms will be different in different people. It would be difficult to test this way as some remedy pictures have similar symptoms for example Carbo Veg and Camphor are both icy cold.
So in other words, just to clarify, if one remedy does not work, try another, then another and another, until the person recovers. This is not science, it is not even medicine. It is placebo and regression to the mean. At least in real medicine, there is a standardised treatment regimen, not, as in homeopathy, 'keep trying until something happens'.
This is NOT what I have said. You asked about contaminants what I was trying to make you understand is that if you had twenty different contaminants in the water with the herb or mineral you were making the remedy from unless one of these contaminants was a silillium it would not react or cure the dis-ease within the patients body. if you have truly qualified as a homeopath you would know this. I suggest you get your Organon out again and restudy what you are supposed to have qualified in.
I have an even better test for you: under proper scientific conditions we are both exposed to a toxin or disease say Malaria, swine flu, food poisoning, arsenic for example. Just enough to make us very ill but not kill us. You can then use any drug you like and I will use my homeopathy and we see who gets better first. Are you up for it?
The test I proposed is fair, scientific and would test your ability to tell one sugar pill from another.
The test you propose is immoral, unethical and illegal.
The fact that you even suggest such a thing goes to show how ignorant you are about disease - there is no such thing as 'just enough to make us very ill' when it comes to a deadly disease like Malaria.
I am done with you and I hope anyone you treat reads this and stops taking your advice. You are a danger to your 'patients'.
I am delighted to hear that you are not going to make contact again. The test you propose is stupid as if you understood homeopathy as you say you do, which I think is an out and out lie you would know that homeopathy is based on treating an individual and each individual would react differently in a "proving". It is as stupid as me suggesting you have various allopathic drugs in unmarked bottles. Could you tell which was which? My test is to prove that I am 100% confident in homeopathy.
If you are 100% confident in homeopathy, then go ahead, infect yourself with malaria and treat it homeopathically. If you survive (and I want this test scientifically observed), you can come back and tell us all.
At the same time, send me any 'allopathic' (a word ONLY used by people who don't understand medicine) medicines you like and I could tell you simply what they were. The fact that you can't do the same with homeopathic pills shows that there is NOTHING in them at all.
Damn it I thought I was going to get some peace and quiet from you vbloke but you obviously want to try and have the last word. So you reckon you can tell the difference with any Conmed I send you. Is that by taking it or testing in a lab to see what it contains? Maybe you work for Big Pharma as that would explain a lot.
ah, the Big Pharma canard... Such a predicatble strawman from someone who has to resort to conspiracy because they have no evidence to back up their claims. I take it then that you are unaware that homeopathy is a highly profitable business - selling nothing to people for profit.
What is more immoral? Selling a placebo and pretending it's medicine, or selling medicine?
Bring on your test, I will gladly accept. As long as you accept mine...
Okay you are on. Where in England are you based? We will need someone independent to monitor the tests of course. You will take a drug daily (no testing in a lab allowed) and then you will tell me by the side effects which drug it is. I will do the same with a homeopathic remedy.
There is no immorality in any medicine as long as it obeys the golden rule of first doing no harm and secondly given with the right intention that being healing the patient.
I wish homeopathy was a profitable business unfortunately I do not know any rich genuine homeopaths. Most of us do homeopathy because we like helping people. I was a nurse before doing a four year course in homeopathy which together with tutorials, books, seminars, setting up costs etc., cost me about £20, 000. Most the work I have done has been with the homeless, ex soldiers returning from the gulf war and treating children from poor families. I have never done homeopathy for profit.
Let's examine Boiron, one of the largest Homeopathy suppliers. In 2007, they posted net profits of €434, 000, 000. 'Big Pharma' indeed.
So next time you go on about 'Big Pharma', remember that the companies making your sugar pills make handsome profits off it and have vested interests in keeping the evidence that it doesn't work suppressed.
It costs so much to train you up as one of their willing minions because they want to make as much money as they can, not so different to 'Big Pharma', eh?
I was trained at The College of Homeopathy not by Boiron. I was happy to pay all the fees because I had seen homeopathy help so many people I wanted to learn it. If you studied homeopathy then you too were "a willing minion" weren't you? Homeopathic pharmacies of course make profits, they are not charities, they sell books, vitamins and creams as well as remedies their profits are tiny compared with the trilions made by Big Pharma. People would not buy homeopathic remedies if they didn't work.
I learnt because I wanted to understand it, not as a willing minion. What I learnt shocked me: no evidence apart from anecdote, no studies that prove it is effective over and above placebo and so on.
Just "I have seen it work" is not evidence, people used to apply toads to warts and claimed it worked.
Do you accept the challenge or not? let's cut through the crap.
Can you tell an unmarked pill from another unmarked pill using whatever methods you care to try? Yes or no.
If you qualified in homeopathy you would have had to have done a minimum of 100 hours of sitting in with your tutor. Therefore you would have seen dozens of patients getting better and many of them so called incurable cases and yet you still don't believe. There is none so blind as those who will not see. I think you are the first person who has qualified in homeopathy who dosen't believe in it.
I have already said I will accept your challenge as long as you do the test under the same rules.
I have seen exactly no patients get better due to homeopathy. I have seen a lot of 'regression to the mean' and self limiting illnesses clearing up. If you have documented evidence of an incurable disease being cured via homeopathy, then please provide it.
I cannot believe that you sat in with qualified homeopaths for 100 hours plus and saw no one get better. Please give me the names of the people you sat in with and their qualifications.
Later this month one of our top homeopaths is visiting London and the South Coast I am sure I could arrange for you to sit in and watch her do her usual miracles. My own father was "cured" by her at the age of 87 of incurable crippling scleraderma. Within weeks he was out of his bed and gardening 8 hours a day. My husband was "cured" of his arthritis and is now at the age of 64 the strongest man in the country and fourth in the world. He is the Bristish Weight-lifting champion.
Boiron (only makes homeopathic pills) : €434,000,000 profit
Shire (makes 10 leading renal, AHDD and GI medicines): €1,255,000,000 profit
Only just over twice the profit and so much more work involved, including large scale placebo controlled DB trials, years before a product gets to market and continual safety regulation and feedback procedures.
I'd say that Homeopathy makes more profit, pill for pill that Big Pharma, based on figures like that.
Shows how popular homeopathy is then doesn't it? People don't keep buying things that don't work do they? It must be the public that are mainly buying these remedies though of course there are now many doctors around the UK prescibing on the NHS. Saying that a small bottle of remedies is far cheaper than a prescription so is probably bought over the counter.
An argumentum ad populum is no argument at all. Like I said before, people used to rub toads on warts. Doesn't mean it works, just that a lot of people are deluded or misled.
I notice you didn't comment on the fact that homeopathy doesn't do trials, doesn't do safety regulation and feedback procedures apart from personal testimony (the plural of anecdote is not evidence).
I also notice that you've gone quiet on the challenge. I shall assume until I hear otherwise that you've chickened out.
I don't know about rubbing toads on warts, as I haven't herad that one , but who knows maybe there is a chemical in toads skin that is acid and burnt off the warts. My Granny used to say rubbing on the juice from a dandelion on a wart would help it go. I can't remember if it worked or not but I do know that dandelion is a great herb for the kidney and liver. Many of modern day medicines are based on ancient wisedom. Old herbalist used willow for pains and willow bark I believe is in aspirin.
It was to make a point that just because people believe in something, does not make it real.
Yes, aspirin is an extract from the Willow. Bad example, further undermining your validity, as once something has been recognised (in aspirins case, in 1853, so less time than homeopathy's been around) as having valuable medicinal effects, it ceases to be alternative medicine and becomes... MEDICINE.
Shame after almost 250 years, the same can't be said for magic water...
Are we not just atoms held togther by energy? We create our own reality and your reality is obviously very different to mine as I believe in a system of healing based on what I have witnessed with hundreds of people healing quickly and gently, without side effects where you only believe in test tube science. Willow bark has been used for thousands of years as "herbal medicine" and STILL IS herbal medicine even if some parts have been used in modern medicine. So both are therefore medicine.
What keeps atoms from flying apart is the electric attraction between the negatively charged electrons and positively charged nuclei. What keeps them from collapsing on themselves is the Heisenberg uncertainty principle and the Pauli exclusion principle. these are well understood and easily measured and quantified. This nebulous 'energy' that altmed people bandy about - that term is totally non descriptive. Reality is reality, you don't create anything. You misunderstand quantum physics too...
Sorry but I have never heard of CERN. The vital force is the difference between you being alive and being dead, that is how you measure it. If you want to know more you had better ask the Godforce as that is where it was created.
Thanks for the information man...gonna use you as a source in my research.
jocktheglide 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Pseudoskepticism supported by the ignorant, dismissed by the wise.
Homeopathy is science backed by studies done by 3 Nobel Laureate scientists in Chemistry(Hans Von Euler), Physics(Brian Josephson) and Physiology & Medicine(Luc Montagnier) and numerous other scientists who are specialists in their fields of work.
mohanaturo 7 months ago
I still don't understand homeopathy.. -_-
PeeEsPee 7 months ago
@PeeEsPee Homeopathy is total quack science. The rules of Homeopathy are:
1. Like cures like. So a homeopathic solution for insomnia would be caffeine.
2. The less of the substance you take, the stronger it is. So you can overdose from not taking the medication.
It isn't complicated to understand why homeopathy is a complete fraud. The only way for homeopathy to work would be if the laws of physics were changed, which is of course, impossible.
GGGeoff 7 months ago 2
So the pathogens, the fecal matter, and dangerous chemicals that all the water in the world has been part of for millions of years has no effect in the water they use for their homeopathic therapy? That stuff would also dilute in the same proportions and would thus "be much more effective".. This is where homeopaths fail. Homeopathy is an outright scam.
UnderManlac 10 months ago
@UnderManlac well yeah water is full of shit like that! and if it is a scam then why is it common place in many countries, and why am i not dead or seriously ill yet?
mr420B 10 months ago
@UnderManlac have you ever used it? if you havnt then toddle off cos you have nothing to go on other than what these other youtube professors, and probably the dail mail have told you
mr420B 10 months ago
3)Acute diseases and Chronic diseases - Hahnemann was the first to divide diseases into acute diseases and chronic diseases and it's accepted in Modern medicine today.
4)Metastases of chronic disease - Hahnemann was the first to propound that chronic diseases can metastase from one part of the body to another part. E.g. colon cancer can metastase to the lungs, etc.
It is in the cure of chronic diseases that Homeopathy makes it's mark
mohanaturo 10 months ago
PSEUDOskepticism is bollocks
Samuel Hahnemann gave 4 ideas/concepts to Modern medicine which are being used to this day:
1) The Law of Similars -This is the principle on which modern vaccinations are applied.
Homeopaths differ with the kind of vaccinations and the methods used.
2)Genetic cause of chronic disease - Hahnemann discoverd this about 250 years ago while modern medicine has come to accept only in the last 50 years or so.
mohanaturo 10 months ago
I have a homeopathic medicine dispenser installed over my kitchen sink. It's awesome.
ZekerLuco 11 months ago
for the record, it's not a theory. It's a hypothesis...
Timmay123456789 1 year ago
Good luck with that beanstalk
xNighthawkSGx 1 year ago
Funny. ;D
TheGnolla 1 year ago
No it does not
TheRealConorKelly 1 year ago
lol, i can't wait to find out how those magic beans are growing:))))
KalahariSurf 1 year ago
A lowly caterpillar cannot recognize the mighty eagle!
codyneel1 1 year ago
What a cute teddy bear :-)
fkoff99 1 year ago
Homeopathy certainly DOES NOT WORK.
Amygdala1OO 1 year ago
@Amygdala1OO you tried it? i have been using it all mylife for pretty much everything- cold, flu cuts and bruises headaches etc and it works! simple- I am not one of the ''scented candle'' types either
mr420B 11 months ago
@mr420B You joking? colds, flu, cuts, bruises, headaches get better anyway. It's called regression to the mean. you don't need to waste your money on that bollocks.
Amygdala1OO 6 months ago
@Amygdala1OO yeh sure they go away, but that doesnt mean they cant be cured/ prevented from becoming infected/ encouraged to heal quicker etc etc- you could say that about most ailments that people go to the hospital or doctors for
mr420B 6 months ago
@mr420B IF they could be healed quicker, there would be proper clinical trials demonstrating this. There are no such trials to support homeopathy. By proper I mean a trial that is independent and can be repeated to show the same results. The thing you need to be aware of with homeopathic "remedies" is that there is no active ingredient present. Can you agree that's not a good start....? :)
Amygdala1OO 3 months ago
Nice debunking!!
BanderShit 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
It is not "bullocks" if someone is helped by it, regardless of the "science"..
Kenzofeis 1 year ago
It is not "bullocks" if someone is helped by it, regardless of the "science"..
Kenzofeis 1 year ago
@Kenzofeis You're talking as if "it" has substance...a real entity that can actually help. Why do you think scientists at clinical trials have one set of patients on the actual drug and the other set on a placebo? To rule out the effect the human mind has on its own well being. These homeopathic drugs are simply that, placebo drugs. Just go to the shops, buy some Tic Tacs, I guarantee they're cheaper, and convince the sick they're a wonder drug. Guaranteed they contain more useful compounds too!
scorphonic1 1 year ago 3
@Kenzofeis if it's just the placebo affect that's helping the patient, then there are far cheaper placebos available
josefgiven 1 year ago
lemon water for about a week will help clean out your digestive system, and will help purify the body. Mother Nature has treatments and cures for all the ailments of the human race, sadly not one for the insanity of human race who ignores her and destroys her......at least not yet.
thedarkmoonmidnight 1 year ago
Homeopathy is bullocks.
Surathan 1 year ago
@Surathan you used it then?
mr420B 11 months ago
@mr420B You don't have to use it to know it's bullshit.
Surathan 11 months ago
@Surathan but until you have used it then ya cant really pass judgement! especially not based on what the drug companies, media and youtube tell you
mr420B 11 months ago
@mr420B You're an idiot.
Surathan 11 months ago
@Surathan im an idiot even though you're the one passing judgement without any experience!??
mr420B 11 months ago
@mr420B Do I need to shoot you in the face to prove to you THROUGH EXPERIENCE that gunshot wounds to the face are fatal?
Surathan 11 months ago
@Surathan witty comeback yet again, you clearly dont know anything about the subject so whats the point in making an idiot out of yourself.
mr420B 11 months ago
@mr420B I'm not the idiot here, you are.
As you've been told by multiple people.
Now, would you like me to demonstrate to your
THROUGH EXPERIENCE
that gunshot wounds to the face are fatal?
Or do you want to SHUT YOUR STUPID FUCKING CHILD MOUTH
SIT THE FUCK DOWN
and quit making yourself look like the retard you are.
Surathan 11 months ago
@Surathan so you dont actually have ANY experience at all and your going on what random people have told you...who also have no experience an are probably just jumping on whatever bandwagon youre told to by the drug companies.... good luck in life with that approach sunshine
mr420B 11 months ago
@mr420B You're like VenomFangX
You're going to go on spewing your retarded drivel
and we're all going to go on laughing at you for being so fucking stupid
Retard
Surathan 11 months ago
@Surathan so im the one spewing retarded drivel even though i have 20 years experience in the field we are talking about?? are you now some kind of expert cos of a youtube video of a fat, ignorant, retarded gentleman + random people throwing their, largely worthless, two cents in- or are ya jus opposing something you dont know about for the sake of it?
mr420B 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Read "Structure of Water" by Rustum Roy, William Tiller and others. Roy is the founder of the material sciences department at Penn State, Tiller was head of Stanford's. Read Georgos Agnagnostatos' report on homeopathic clathrates. Agnagnostatos is a nuclear physicist. These are science heavy weights who are introducing supramolecular chemistry as the basis for homeopathy. It adds up.
What doesn't add up are PSEUDOskeptics' claims that homeopathy cures are due solely to the placebo effect..
mohanaturo 1 year ago
@mohanaturo funny how people keep marking any evidence pro homoeopathy as spam eh? obviously they are scared they might be proved worng
mr420B 11 months ago
@mr420B Homeopathy is a scam. Right from the outset of the explanation of homeopathy it's obvious. The very statement "water has memory" is an obvious red flag and any intelligent person should recognize it as such. Only the incredibly gullible would fall for it.
I have a paperclip that keeps alligators away. I've shown it to hundreds of people and they will agree that it works. There are no alligators in our city. Proof it works and people experienced it's awesome power.
UnderManlac 10 months ago
@UnderManlac as i keep saying to every one- dont use it if you dont want to, no ones forcing you- although there are homoeopaths working for the NHS so it cant be total bullshit- keep pumping your body full of everything the drugs companies throw at you, after all theyre making billions- so they arent going to lie to get money, surely (!)
mr420B 10 months ago
@mr420B also it is common place in many countries, and people have used it for longer than ''conventional'' medicine
mr420B 10 months ago
@mr420B Yes. Exactly. That is the mark of PSEUDOskepticism
mohanaturo 9 months ago
You didn't follow the proper dilution procedures. Many studies have shown that it is efficacious beyond the expected placebo effect. Do we fully understand why it works? No, we don't. However, recognizing that it does work and understanding why it works are two entirely different issues.
Mike62075 1 year ago
No such studies exist.
We don't know why Lithium works, but we use it because it works.
Medicine doesn't care if we know how it works, we just use what works.
homeopathy does not work
hoppinglark 1 year ago
@hoppinglark
Yeah, the studies do exist. You can google it if you want to, or you could contact a homeopathic practitioner and ask them for more detailed information.
Mike62075 1 year ago
@Mike62075 I have googled it, and I've looked into it, no double blind report exists.
hoppinglark 1 year ago
@hoppinglark
I googled "evidence for homeopathy" "double blind" and got plenty of hits.
Again, I'm not the homeopathic champion. Ask Iris R. Bell, MD PhD. I'm sure that there are others.
Over and out.
Mike62075 1 year ago
@Mike62075 I've done the same thing, most say the evidence gave no support, or were not repeatable by others. Things that we don't understand like Lithium, are repeatable, thus they are considered to work.
when something is not repeatable, it's not considered to work.
hoppinglark 1 year ago
@hoppinglark
It's not *as* effective as standard medicine in most cases. Bear in mind that scientific studies can "prove" one thing, and then an entirely different set of scientific studies can "prove" the opposite.
Mike62075 1 year ago
@Mike62075 that's why there are controls and real world tests, review your biostatistics notes. When the effectiveness is no greater than placebo, it's just placebo.
hoppinglark 1 year ago
@hoppinglark
Why not take this up with a homeopathy pro?
Mike62075 1 year ago
@Mike62075
Who says I haven't!
;-)
hoppinglark 1 year ago
@hoppinglark
Yeah. Cool.
Mike62075 1 year ago
@hoppinglark but it does work! have you used it?
mr420B 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Why is it that Homeopathy remedies almost ALWAYS induce the placebo effect in susceptible patients and Allopathy drugs almost NEVER induce it...????
This Homeopathy "placebo effect" cure holds for months or years.
Many Homeopaths in busy clinics with 10 minute consultations are able to cure their patients with this so called "placebo effect".
mohanaturo 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The problem is not that Homeopathy doesn't work. It's just that it's detractors don't want it to work and yet it does!
Scientist Ennis was a skeptic and in her tests, found that Homeopathy is not placebo effect.
mohanaturo 2 years ago
Then she is either wrong or she is a fraud.
a1mint 2 years ago 3
@a1mint so what your saying is because you dont want to believe it it is fraud....wow seriously open mindedness right there lol
mr420B 11 months ago
@mr420B And that's exactly the problem. "believing". It's all just based on beliefs. You can be open minded till the cows come home, but the fact remains, that homeopathy is absolutely nothing except a placebo effect.
There isn't anything scientific about it. Memory in water does not exist. And so arrogant the homeopaths are. They happily overthrow and invalidate the actual scientific world just to pretend their quackery has validity.
Well, it's doesn't. It's a hoax, it's quackery !
a1mint 11 months ago 3
@mr420B No, what he's saying is that homeopathy makes NO sense to even a moderately intelligent person. Only the gullible will buy into that theory, and there are a lot of gullible people out there it seems, including you.
Research has been repeatedly done and it has been found to be no better than the placebo effect, but you choose to ignore true scientific findings and follow the anecdotal accounts (or "people's word" - since I don't believe you'd understand that word).
UnderManlac 10 months ago
It does work, placebo does work, prayer does work and wishfull thinking also... but not good enough when one is seriouly ill.
And now that the pharmacy has been hijacked by mafias...
better never get ill!
Zzozze 2 years ago
With homeopathy, wouldn't taking less actually be more likely to cause overdose?
compactdisk2 2 years ago 3
Homeopathy: does it work?
Yes. it cures stupidity by killing the affected.
OldSchoolSkill 2 years ago 6
You need allopathic medicine tu cure your stupidity!
harly30 2 years ago
It has been scientifically proven that the concussion proses increases the difference of a high dilute and plain water. More so that the difference between a high dilute and plain water.
Homeopathy is not just a substance highly diluted in water, it is simultainiously concused.
Kingfillins 2 years ago
He is not "particularly ill at the momen", he is a bit fat though. Totally irrelevant. A moron.
jsnauwaert 2 years ago
Homeopathy, supported by the ignorant, dismissed by the wise.
ZoeMarks 2 years ago 69
@ZoeMarks ohh right you mean like the ''wise''man in this video who conducts an experiment without actually using anything related to the discipline?
mr420B 11 months ago
@mr420B - whatever...
ZoeMarks 11 months ago
@ZoeMarks intelligent remark, from a ''''wise''' person i presume
mr420B 11 months ago
@mr420B - when you have finished carrying on like a troll...
ZoeMarks 11 months ago
that was funny
xethanolx 2 years ago
my mum is a homeopath and i agree that it is bollocks lol. trust a guy with 17 years experience of it -_-. however you dont really have a clue what you are on about.
joethehappyfish 2 years ago
@joethehappyfish my mother is also a homoepath and i used to be sceptical and never believed or understood why it worked- however I have realised that in my 20 odd years on this planet I have only used homoepathy and it has worked, i am perfectly healthy and am not dead!
mr420B 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@mr420B "my mother is also a homoepath and i used to be sceptical and never believed or understood why it worked- however I have realised that in my 20 odd years on this planet I have only used homoepathy and it has worked, i am perfectly healthy and am not dead!"
We certainly wish you were.
UnderManlac 10 months ago
Totally agree and well put. It is truly bollocks.
Tomaztarge94 2 years ago
So 1skyhand does not believe in dowsing either, despite it being successfully used for thousands of years. I do not wish to be tested by a magician who by slight of hand can "fix" any experiment. I don't want a million pounds, I dowse water, lost objects/pets for free. If I wanted to do it for money I would work dowsing for the oil companies as Yuri Geller does and gets paid millions to do so.
arnicaworks 2 years ago
Arnicaworks is a dowser. I am not surprised. Something where the practitioner believes that they are really doing something, but can't be proved under controlled conditions. A test protocol has been already setup by someone trying for the million dollar challenge. Go for it or is there a homeopathic oath that is against proof-- Thou must not test. One must remember that ignorance, anecdotes, and faith that it works is our foundation.
1skyhand 2 years ago
hehehe ;)
GetMeThere1 2 years ago
there are natural medicins that can be used that can keep a person 100% healthy without mainstream medicins or even homeapathy. though homeapathy is a much better alternative than mainstream medicin it is all pretty much overused by the masses.
guidav123 2 years ago
What are those medicines? I am sure there's a few billion people that would love to know...
Sebobaso 2 years ago
if i gave them to you , you would only try to discredit them. if you truley want to know then just do some research like i did. dont be so lazy!
guidav123 2 years ago
Apricot kernels, oats, dandelions, garlic, strawberries, marigolds, comfrey, parsley, honey etc., etc., .........these are all natural healers.
arnicaworks 2 years ago
being into alternative medicin for a while now and having nothing but success in it, i must say i have never heard of this water memory deluting idea that everyone wants to use to attack homeapathy.
guidav123 2 years ago 3
I agree there is too much spoken about "the memory of water" and dilution. Homeopathy actually means treating with a similar energy. We don't know how it works, just that it does. Using double blind trails is not a good way to test homeopathy as the remedy is matched to the indvidual not to the disease. I treat people not diseases. Science I am sure will one day be advanced enough to explain homeopathy, until then my patients return to me when they are sick because they know it works for them.
arnicaworks 2 years ago
Ok satire. Make a new one this time making real homeopathic remedies. The site Hpathy can show you how. Says you can even use tap water or spring water. Many remedies can be made from easy to get starting materials. There are 1000's of things. There is one even made from the Berlin Wall, if you can find a piece. I'm not kidding you can look it up. I'm not sure what it is supposed to do, but you can find out. It may become needed some day; you never know.
1skyhand 2 years ago
Fucking hilarious!!! Hahahaha!
Sebobaso 2 years ago
1skyhand 2 years ago
homeopathy is a tablet?
ConnorLeonXbox 2 years ago
Hi James. Whilst I agree 100% with your "homeopathy is bollox" sentiments, your condescending "humour" is really really annoying.
You're a bit of a cock, really.
barkerj2 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Homeopathy can't possibly be placebo effect because it cures subjective symptoms of non self-limiting chronic diseases such as chronic tonsillitis in infants & children and tumours in animals.
Infants and animals are not subject to the placebo effect.
mohanaturo 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Some Allopathy doctors in the Finlay Institute in Cuba have done excellent use of Homeopathy prophylaxis in the prevention of Leptospirosis outbreak during hurricane season in Cuba.
Google: Homeopathy Cuba Leptospirosis.
mohanaturo 3 years ago
Homeopathy should evolve beyond the 18th century. Personal experiences and the strong belief that it work in not enough. Homeopaths should use the scientific method and double-blind studies that are well designed and repeatable. Homeopaths will never do this because when it has been done all effects are consistent with the placebo effect.
rballettom 3 years ago
Wrong. Homeopathy is 2.45 times more likely to produce a clinically beneficial result than placebo (The Lancet).
JimHewittWhite 3 years ago 2
"The odds ratio for the 26 good-quality studies was 1.66 ... However, we found insufficient evidence from these studies that homeopathy is clearly efficacious for any single clinical condition. Further research on homeopathy is warranted provided it is rigorous and systematic." (The Lancet).
JamMcFar 2 years ago 2
Page number please?
JimHewittWhite 2 years ago
Also Jam McFar, are you aware that most conventional medicines have not been proved in double-blind trials?
JimHewittWhite 2 years ago 2
Homeopathy is being used under US FDA approval to treat brain cancer. One study shows complete regression of tumors in 50% of patients. For more info google ruta md anderson and ohsu homeopathy.
Millions of people use homeopathy around the world and testify to the fact that it does not just work but works beautifully. That is certainly my personal experience.
Anyone who has been dissuaded from trying it has had something precious stolen from them--they just don't know it -- yet!
den151redbank 3 years ago 2
The term "US FDA approval" is misleading at best. The FDA just allows homeopathic remedies because there's no evidence that it does harm. Being nothing but water, it won't cause harm unless contaminated.
The FDA does NOT approve ANY homeopathic remedy for actual medical treatment.
flakingnapstich 2 years ago 3
Another joker!
sterlingc30 3 years ago
I can only imagine that you have not used homeopathic medication. It is fine for you to make fun of something that you haven't experienced the benefit from. I am a qualified nurse who uses both allopathic medication and homeopathic medication, don't dismiss it just because you don't understand it.
emunk101 3 years ago 2
Well said, emunk. The dismissal of this highly effective, safe and affordable medicine, which aims at curing conditions rather than suppressing them, is bizarre to me.
Some people seem determined to worship the bars of their own prison.
JimHewittWhite 3 years ago
How do you "clear" the memory of water so you don't have any harmful materials damaging people?
What I mean is: the claim is that the water retains "memory" of homeopathic medicine (since there's a nil chance of any medicine molecules still remain in the solution). Why doesn't the water retain memory of anything that would be considered negative homeopathically (not exactly sure what counts as poison with homeopathy)? Distilled water is not possible in your view; it will have memory still.
wightboy12345 2 years ago
"How do you "clear" the memory of water so you don't have any harmful materials damaging people?"
According to the theory, the process of potentization alters the structure of the homeopathic water, making it distinct from its liquid vessel.
JimHewittWhite 2 years ago
I don't see how this is any different at all from trying to clean out a test tube by repeatedly rinsing it with distilled water. According to homeopathy, wouldn't that imbue that water with the characteristics of whatever material was in the test tube? If it changes the structure of the water (which is the liquid vessel), then shouldn't we be able to see that under an electron microscope? This raises a lot more questions than it answers and doesn't really answer the question at all.
wightboy12345 2 years ago
"If it changes the structure of the water (which is the liquid vessel), then shouldn't we be able to see that under an electron microscope?"
According to some scientists we can see changes with NMR.
JimHewittWhite 2 years ago
However, how you described the claim to me should still show some statistical difference in the bonding angles of the molecules under an electron microscope.
wightboy12345 2 years ago
"However, how you described the claim to me should still show some statistical difference in the bonding angles of the molecules under an electron microscope."
I don't know wighty. I can send you the link on the magnetic nuclear resonance testing if you like. I heard one fan of homeopathy claim the optical density of the water also changes, but I don't know what he's basing this claim on.
JimHewittWhite 2 years ago
I didn't mean to be antagonistic towards you and apologize if I came off that way; you have been very reasonable. I going to remain highly skeptical of homeopathy until they have a coherent explanation that doesn't disappear in a double-blind environment (there's a 5 part video from Horizon TV (or something similar sounding)) and has consistent evidence. Thank you for taking this time.
wightboy12345 2 years ago
You didn't come across like that at all.
I'm currently posting on 1/5 of the bbc doc threadds, explaining why the tests are fundamentally flawed IMO.
JimHewittWhite 2 years ago
Yeah, but "some scientists" amounts to ONE study by a Homeopathic think tank. If one is going to discard pharmaceutical research because it's done by pharmaceutical companies, then the Conde study is equally suspect.
flakingnapstich 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I love you homeopathetics :)
Sebobaso 3 years ago
For those who call homeopathy " a new age craze" should get their facts right homeopathy is not new age it was first used in Tibet over two thousand years ago. It was made popular in Europe in the 1700s by Samuel Hahnemann and was the main system of medicine in the 19th century in Europe and the US so it is hardly " a new age craze". It is the main system of medicine in India and over half the doctors in France are qualified homeopaths. It would not have lasted so long had it not worked.
arnicaworks 3 years ago
What are your sources regarding India and France.
I know homeopaths love to say these thing but it's simply not true.
"Current usage around the world varies from two percent of people in the United Kingdom and the United States using homeopathy in any one year[23][24] to 15 percent in India, where it is considered part of Indian traditional medicine."
With only 15% using it it can hardly be described as the main system.
Sebobaso 3 years ago
I only know when I visited India most the people I met used homeopathy as their main system of medicine. The cost of homeopathic medicine is very, very small and it is a faction of the cost of allopathic drugs.
arnicaworks 2 years ago
But it's a helluva lot more expensive than unbranded (or even branded drinking) -water. I lived in India for 5 years and almost never heard about homeopathy there. People are really big on Medicine, or "Allopathy" as you call it. It's a village phenomenon.
Sebobaso 2 years ago
Homeopathy is not expensive and it is far cheaper than bottle water. The Soham Foundation in India treat hundreds of people every day with homeopathy and it is free for the local people as it is funded by homeopaths in the west. Unfortunately as a country becomes wealthier the drugs companies and Biotech industries move in along with McDonalds as the people want what the west has. It is only when people suffer the diseases of the west that they want to turn back to a more natural lifestyle.
arnicaworks 2 years ago
The Soham Foundation can't treat anyone with homeopathy since homeopathy does nothing.
And India has a shitload of diseases that real medicine has eradicated. There's nothing healthy in a natural lifestyle with TB, Small-pox, Plague etc.
I understand why you fear India's growing wealth. With that comes education and less room for quackery.
Sebobaso 2 years ago 2
The Soham Foundation gets an amazingly high level of success. Next visit to India go and see for yourself. I agree with you that sometimes allopathy has its part to play in the treatment of serious disease and where there is poverty there is always disease. Having adequate good natural organic food and good hygiene will keep most people healthy with strong immune systems. Sadly we see in rich countries that TB is not eradicated but instead is actually increasing despite vaccines and drugs.
arnicaworks 2 years ago
I think giving the villagers free clean water is a fantastic thing to do...
The only thing homeopathy cures is thirst and i heartily applaud you for trying to remove the thirst of the world!
chitresist 2 years ago
Actually the body does all the curing homeopathy just helps speed up the process. Homeopathy cannot cure thirst as thirst is a state and not an illlness. With regards to water I do try to help find water for people as I am a dowser as well as a homeopath. So thank for your kind words.
arnicaworks 2 years ago
Well, distilled water is going to be cheaper than actual medicine, that's a given.
The fact that it's cheaper however doesn't mean anything, as all the large sample size research about homeopathy shows it has no real effect beyond placebo. It'd be even cheaper for me to go from person to person, slap them and say "get over it" but that wouldn't be better than seeing an actual doctor or getting real medicine.
flakingnapstich 2 years ago
Have you ever tried homeopathy? Of course not or you wouldn't believe it is just diluted water. So called real medicines all have side effects some more serious than others. My family have always used homeopathy to treat any health problems. None of us including my 92 year old father have taken as much as an aspirin in over twenty years. I will stick with what works for us and you can have your drugs and side effects and we will have our perfect health with herbs and homeopathy thank you.
arnicaworks 2 years ago
Of course you see no side effects, it's just water. I have tried homeopathy. I started looking into it more when I found that the homeopathic cold remedy I was taking had no actual impact on my symptoms. Homeopathy is the practice or repeatedly diluting a substance to the point where there's literally no detectable molecules of the "active ingredient" left. You'd need to literally drink a swimming pool sized quantity of the remedy to encounter even a single molecule of the active ingredient.
flakingnapstich 2 years ago
Homeopathy is not just water, it is an energised substance, matching the symptom picture of the person.
You say you took a homeopathic remedy for a cold and it didn't improve your symptoms. What remedy did you take? What were your symptoms? Did you self prescribe?There are hundreds of different remedies for colds depending on the symptoms, you obviously took the wrong one that time.
arnicaworks 2 years ago
Sounds like someone bought the homeopathists bull shit. Have you ever done any science, ever? I mean, even something basic like if you dilute something millions of times over into water it's not an effective medicine?
dodgeman666 2 years ago
Homeopathy is not just a substance diluted in water. It is specially prepared by a strict process in a lab. However to be truly homeopathic it has to match the presenting symptoms. For instance if you were unable to sleep because of over excitement and you were feeling "buzzy" the remedy Coffea might be prescribed to treat you. It would work in the same way taking the material dose which would be a small cup of coffee. Homeopathy is treating like with like not just diluting something, got it?
arnicaworks 2 years ago
'strict process in a lab' = dilute repeatedly and bang against a leather bound bible each time to shake it up (or succuss)
vbloke 2 years ago
Yes, that is part of the process and the succussion seems to help activate the healing energy of the substance. However I repeat the most important part of homeopathy is the law of similars, without this principle it cannot work. An example of this would be the drug Ritalin which is bascially speed but when given to a hyperactive child calms them down this is therefore homeopathic for that child.
arnicaworks 2 years ago
You are certainly right - it cannot work.
Even if the 'law' of similars was valid (which it has never been proven to be), how do you ensure that there is absoltely no contaminents in the dilution medium that would affect the eventual 'medicinal' effects?
Even an atom of a contaminent would make the solution worthless.
vbloke 2 years ago
It WILL work if it is the true similium. It is not necessary to be so worried about a small contaminent in the water as if the body does not recognise the conaminent as a similium it will not react to it even if it has been potentised. However if the water say has for example chlorine in it and was made into a remedy it may be curative to someone who gets asthma at the swimming baths from the fumes. It would have no reaction in someone not needing the remedy chlorine. Now do you understand?
arnicaworks 2 years ago
But seeing as the 'law' of similars states that the 'remedy' in question is something that will cause the symptoms that it is supposed to cure, a potentised contaminant in the solution then will not only 'cure' one set of symptoms, it will then cause a second set of symptoms, thereby making the person ill again.
And I'm not coming at this from a layman point of view, I actually have a diploma in homeopathy from the British Institute of Homeopathy.
vbloke 2 years ago
I am sorry but I cannot believe that you have studied homeopathy as you have failed to grasp any of the basic principles. A homeopathic remedy cannot cause a second set of symptoms to make a person ill again. I have been practising and teaching homeopathy for twenty years and have never seen homeopathy make anyone ill again after they have been made better. I do not know much about the Bristish Institute of Homeopathy but I wil certainly contact them tomorrow to question their teachings.
arnicaworks 2 years ago
Really? The basic core of homeopathy (the law of similars) is that certain substances cause symptoms that appear to be the same as the symptoms of a disease. Diluting the substance magically increases the substances potency. Therefore, a contaminant in the original solution will cause a second set of symptoms. it's your logic...
The fact that it doesn't shows that there is *no* effect at all.
vbloke 2 years ago
Homeopathy cannot cause any illness. If you have really studied homeopathy (which I doubt) you should know that. You could give twenty different wrong remedies (contaminants) to a person and they will not react until they are given the true simillium and it cures.
arnicaworks 2 years ago
I think you may be thinking of "provings" which as a homeopath (if you really are) you will know will be different in each person. I have been on some provings which have indeed for a short period produced symptoms until I stopped the remedy. I have also been on provings which produced little symptoms. Also symptoms will be different in different people. It would be difficult to test this way as some remedy pictures have similar symptoms for example Carbo Veg and Camphor are both icy cold.
arnicaworks 2 years ago
So in other words, just to clarify, if one remedy does not work, try another, then another and another, until the person recovers. This is not science, it is not even medicine. It is placebo and regression to the mean. At least in real medicine, there is a standardised treatment regimen, not, as in homeopathy, 'keep trying until something happens'.
vbloke 2 years ago
This is NOT what I have said. You asked about contaminants what I was trying to make you understand is that if you had twenty different contaminants in the water with the herb or mineral you were making the remedy from unless one of these contaminants was a silillium it would not react or cure the dis-ease within the patients body. if you have truly qualified as a homeopath you would know this. I suggest you get your Organon out again and restudy what you are supposed to have qualified in.
arnicaworks 2 years ago
I propose a test.
I shall procure a homeopathic rememdy from a reputable source and remove any identifying labels and information that could identify it.
All you have to do is tell me what it is from the symptoms it produces in a healthy person.
If you get it right, I shall retract all my comments and become a full proponent of homeopathy.
If you do not, and cannot from however many tests you wish to take, you have to publicly acknowledge that homeopathy is bunk.
Deal?
vbloke 2 years ago
I have an even better test for you: under proper scientific conditions we are both exposed to a toxin or disease say Malaria, swine flu, food poisoning, arsenic for example. Just enough to make us very ill but not kill us. You can then use any drug you like and I will use my homeopathy and we see who gets better first. Are you up for it?
arnicaworks 2 years ago
The test I proposed is fair, scientific and would test your ability to tell one sugar pill from another.
The test you propose is immoral, unethical and illegal.
The fact that you even suggest such a thing goes to show how ignorant you are about disease - there is no such thing as 'just enough to make us very ill' when it comes to a deadly disease like Malaria.
I am done with you and I hope anyone you treat reads this and stops taking your advice. You are a danger to your 'patients'.
vbloke 2 years ago
I am delighted to hear that you are not going to make contact again. The test you propose is stupid as if you understood homeopathy as you say you do, which I think is an out and out lie you would know that homeopathy is based on treating an individual and each individual would react differently in a "proving". It is as stupid as me suggesting you have various allopathic drugs in unmarked bottles. Could you tell which was which? My test is to prove that I am 100% confident in homeopathy.
arnicaworks 2 years ago
Sod it.
If you are 100% confident in homeopathy, then go ahead, infect yourself with malaria and treat it homeopathically. If you survive (and I want this test scientifically observed), you can come back and tell us all.
At the same time, send me any 'allopathic' (a word ONLY used by people who don't understand medicine) medicines you like and I could tell you simply what they were. The fact that you can't do the same with homeopathic pills shows that there is NOTHING in them at all.
vbloke 2 years ago
Damn it I thought I was going to get some peace and quiet from you vbloke but you obviously want to try and have the last word. So you reckon you can tell the difference with any Conmed I send you. Is that by taking it or testing in a lab to see what it contains? Maybe you work for Big Pharma as that would explain a lot.
arnicaworks 2 years ago
ah, the Big Pharma canard... Such a predicatble strawman from someone who has to resort to conspiracy because they have no evidence to back up their claims. I take it then that you are unaware that homeopathy is a highly profitable business - selling nothing to people for profit.
What is more immoral? Selling a placebo and pretending it's medicine, or selling medicine?
Bring on your test, I will gladly accept. As long as you accept mine...
vbloke 2 years ago
Okay you are on. Where in England are you based? We will need someone independent to monitor the tests of course. You will take a drug daily (no testing in a lab allowed) and then you will tell me by the side effects which drug it is. I will do the same with a homeopathic remedy.
There is no immorality in any medicine as long as it obeys the golden rule of first doing no harm and secondly given with the right intention that being healing the patient.
arnicaworks 2 years ago
Oh, so no testing in a lab is now allowed, even though you said it was acceptable before?
Talk about moving the goalposts... No wonder you can find evidence for your remedies wherever you look if this is how you operate.
I agreed to the test if I could test in a lab.
If I send you some homeopathic pills, you can test them *however* you want - I hold no methods over you.
If this test is to be fair on both sides, we must both adhere to the same levels of rigour. Agree?
vbloke 2 years ago
Comment removed
arnicaworks 2 years ago
I wish homeopathy was a profitable business unfortunately I do not know any rich genuine homeopaths. Most of us do homeopathy because we like helping people. I was a nurse before doing a four year course in homeopathy which together with tutorials, books, seminars, setting up costs etc., cost me about £20, 000. Most the work I have done has been with the homeless, ex soldiers returning from the gulf war and treating children from poor families. I have never done homeopathy for profit.
arnicaworks 2 years ago
Let's examine Boiron, one of the largest Homeopathy suppliers. In 2007, they posted net profits of €434, 000, 000. 'Big Pharma' indeed.
So next time you go on about 'Big Pharma', remember that the companies making your sugar pills make handsome profits off it and have vested interests in keeping the evidence that it doesn't work suppressed.
It costs so much to train you up as one of their willing minions because they want to make as much money as they can, not so different to 'Big Pharma', eh?
vbloke 2 years ago
I was trained at The College of Homeopathy not by Boiron. I was happy to pay all the fees because I had seen homeopathy help so many people I wanted to learn it. If you studied homeopathy then you too were "a willing minion" weren't you? Homeopathic pharmacies of course make profits, they are not charities, they sell books, vitamins and creams as well as remedies their profits are tiny compared with the trilions made by Big Pharma. People would not buy homeopathic remedies if they didn't work.
arnicaworks 2 years ago
I learnt because I wanted to understand it, not as a willing minion. What I learnt shocked me: no evidence apart from anecdote, no studies that prove it is effective over and above placebo and so on.
Just "I have seen it work" is not evidence, people used to apply toads to warts and claimed it worked.
Do you accept the challenge or not? let's cut through the crap.
Can you tell an unmarked pill from another unmarked pill using whatever methods you care to try? Yes or no.
vbloke 2 years ago
If you qualified in homeopathy you would have had to have done a minimum of 100 hours of sitting in with your tutor. Therefore you would have seen dozens of patients getting better and many of them so called incurable cases and yet you still don't believe. There is none so blind as those who will not see. I think you are the first person who has qualified in homeopathy who dosen't believe in it.
I have already said I will accept your challenge as long as you do the test under the same rules.
arnicaworks 2 years ago
I have seen exactly no patients get better due to homeopathy. I have seen a lot of 'regression to the mean' and self limiting illnesses clearing up. If you have documented evidence of an incurable disease being cured via homeopathy, then please provide it.
In that case, I formally challenge you. PM sent.
vbloke 2 years ago
I cannot believe that you sat in with qualified homeopaths for 100 hours plus and saw no one get better. Please give me the names of the people you sat in with and their qualifications.
arnicaworks 2 years ago
Later this month one of our top homeopaths is visiting London and the South Coast I am sure I could arrange for you to sit in and watch her do her usual miracles. My own father was "cured" by her at the age of 87 of incurable crippling scleraderma. Within weeks he was out of his bed and gardening 8 hours a day. My husband was "cured" of his arthritis and is now at the age of 64 the strongest man in the country and fourth in the world. He is the Bristish Weight-lifting champion.
arnicaworks 2 years ago
You obviously didn't get the plural of anecdote is not evidence bit before...
If your top homeopath is coming to London, perhaps she would like to take the test as well...
vbloke 2 years ago
Oh, and let's compare Big Pharam, shall we?
Boiron (only makes homeopathic pills) : €434,000,000 profit
Shire (makes 10 leading renal, AHDD and GI medicines): €1,255,000,000 profit
Only just over twice the profit and so much more work involved, including large scale placebo controlled DB trials, years before a product gets to market and continual safety regulation and feedback procedures.
I'd say that Homeopathy makes more profit, pill for pill that Big Pharma, based on figures like that.
vbloke 2 years ago
Shows how popular homeopathy is then doesn't it? People don't keep buying things that don't work do they? It must be the public that are mainly buying these remedies though of course there are now many doctors around the UK prescibing on the NHS. Saying that a small bottle of remedies is far cheaper than a prescription so is probably bought over the counter.
arnicaworks 2 years ago
An argumentum ad populum is no argument at all. Like I said before, people used to rub toads on warts. Doesn't mean it works, just that a lot of people are deluded or misled.
I notice you didn't comment on the fact that homeopathy doesn't do trials, doesn't do safety regulation and feedback procedures apart from personal testimony (the plural of anecdote is not evidence).
I also notice that you've gone quiet on the challenge. I shall assume until I hear otherwise that you've chickened out.
vbloke 2 years ago
I don't know about rubbing toads on warts, as I haven't herad that one , but who knows maybe there is a chemical in toads skin that is acid and burnt off the warts. My Granny used to say rubbing on the juice from a dandelion on a wart would help it go. I can't remember if it worked or not but I do know that dandelion is a great herb for the kidney and liver. Many of modern day medicines are based on ancient wisedom. Old herbalist used willow for pains and willow bark I believe is in aspirin.
arnicaworks 2 years ago
It was to make a point that just because people believe in something, does not make it real.
Yes, aspirin is an extract from the Willow. Bad example, further undermining your validity, as once something has been recognised (in aspirins case, in 1853, so less time than homeopathy's been around) as having valuable medicinal effects, it ceases to be alternative medicine and becomes... MEDICINE.
Shame after almost 250 years, the same can't be said for magic water...
vbloke 2 years ago
Are we not just atoms held togther by energy? We create our own reality and your reality is obviously very different to mine as I believe in a system of healing based on what I have witnessed with hundreds of people healing quickly and gently, without side effects where you only believe in test tube science. Willow bark has been used for thousands of years as "herbal medicine" and STILL IS herbal medicine even if some parts have been used in modern medicine. So both are therefore medicine.
arnicaworks 2 years ago
What keeps atoms from flying apart is the electric attraction between the negatively charged electrons and positively charged nuclei. What keeps them from collapsing on themselves is the Heisenberg uncertainty principle and the Pauli exclusion principle. these are well understood and easily measured and quantified. This nebulous 'energy' that altmed people bandy about - that term is totally non descriptive. Reality is reality, you don't create anything. You misunderstand quantum physics too...
vbloke 2 years ago
Is not what you are talking about energy too? Everything in life has a vibrational energy, that is what life is. Now do you get it?
arnicaworks 2 years ago
Yes, and it can be measured, quantified and used (this is what CERN is all about). Where are your figures for your 'vital force'? How is it measured?
vbloke 2 years ago
Sorry but I have never heard of CERN. The vital force is the difference between you being alive and being dead, that is how you measure it. If you want to know more you had better ask the Godforce as that is where it was created.
arnicaworks 2 years ago