Sherman M4 105mm

[JSteglich]

Friend, 75mm no 105mm.

[aviationdocs]

Merci pour l'affichage harentrois. Veuillez visionner les chars Sherman dans ma vidéo Military and Flying Machines 2011 - On the Ground.

[cleburne1863]

I can tell from the engine deck that this version was based on the M4 hull. Another version was based on the M4A3 hull.

[cleburne1863]

It is indeed a 105mm howitzer. This version of the Sherman was armed with a modified version of the 105mm M2A1 howitzer, the same weapon on the M7 Priest, and the same one that was the mainstay of the artillery. It was intended to provide indirect fire support to armored units, with more protection than the open-topped Priest. It was not an assault tank, and was not supposed to get within direct fire range of the enemy.

[cleburne1863]

As a side note, the early models of the Sherman were armed with a 75mm cannon. Later models with a redesigned turret had a high velocity 76mm cannon. The British wanted a better gun, so they modified 75mm gun tanks to fit their 17-pounder (76.2mm) anti-tank gun. This was the Firefly. The Sherman was never armed with a 90mm cannon. The only AFVs the US fielded with a 90mm cannon were the M36 Jackson tank destroyer and the experimental T26E3 Pershings rushed to Europe at the end of the war.

[No1118117]

@cleburne1863 There were prototypes of an M4A3E8 using the 90mm gun.

[cleburne1863]

@No1118117 The only Sherman with a 90mm gun was a 47 degree hull M4 that had a T26E3 Pershing turret fitted. Both tanks had a 69" turret ring. However, it would have taken just as long to start manufacturing this combo as it would to get the Pershings started, so it was dropped. There was also a few M4A3 and M4A2 tanks with M36 tank destroyer turrets fitted. Also, some experimental tank destroyers without turrets.

[Tankerpaul223]

That is definatly NOT a 105mm gun. American tanks dident use the british 105 untill the M-60 series was put into service. We used the 105 mm on the Original Abrams as well. Most shermans had the 75mm. There was a 90mm version of the sherman that came around during the end of the war, but not many were produced.

[flashpoint62]

@Tankerpaul223 i think what you are talking about the sherman with the 90mm gun was a british version of the sherman after the lend lease act we gave them some many shermans but the draw back of the sherman it had a 75mm gun so the british put a bigger gun a on the sherman and renamed it the firefly

[Tankerpaul223]

@flashpoint62 I think your right, i do recall hearing something somewhere about the "firefly" Sherman. Im almost positive that the US adopted the 90mm version in small numbers as well. I believe it saw action with the US very late in the war. Along with the Pershing, it was a late response the the 88mm that the Germans were using. The Tiger was a hell of a tank, Too bad porche forgot to include a commanders machine gun on the early tigers.

[chris112711]

The Sherman can be easily destroyed but can be easily replaced in just 48 hours while the german tanks

needs months just to replace one that they have lost.

And thats the winning factor for the shermans.

[10aagun]

75mm man

[eduarlambert]

In Spanish. From Venezuela: Es distinguible el motor a gasolina que usa a diferencia de uno diesel como el que usaba el T-34 Ruso y no usaba un cañon de 105MM si no uno de 76MM

[SplusEgamecritics]

i thought the main gun on the sherman was a 75mm

[WhitepwrItalian1]

@SplusEgamecritics M4 firefly has 75mm, M4 76 has a 76mm. And that is no 105mm cannon.

[jakey130486]

so you read a "canadian" report on 'one' month of a war that the sherman fought in for years. forgive me you a clearly in a far better position to tell other people they are wrong.... not

[jakey130486]

sorry but i dont really get the point if your making one here or how it's relevant to the comments i made.

[jakey130486]

yer well i guess the germans had years from the time the panzer army was first put through it's paces in spain for the civil war to poland and russia and so on to perfect it's machinery, train it's crews and become the elite fighting force they were long before the british russian and americans really stepped up to the stage armour wise. by this time you had seasoned veterans in tigers up against inferior allied tank men rolling onto the beaches most not having fired a shot in anger prior to.

[jakey130486]

by 1944 some 1,400 shemans were destroyed and 90% of them burned, they were described as "death traps" by the US government. german tank gunners commented that on occasions firing HE at shermans was enough to make them bail out an abandone a perfectly good tank. even the crew knew they were being sent to fight in a steel coffin. the sherman was a peice of shit. it just so happened that the americans had an expendable supply of this "shit" just a shame they felt this way about the crews

[spazgecko]

true..but when they first used the M16s in Vietnam they hated them..but its different..countries liek the US and England in WWII had extremely strong militaries already so liek you said they coudl afford to use these..while the Germans chose quality over quantity..it woudl have wiorked on weaker ocuntries..but they had to deal with US and Engldn so they were shit outta luck..but yes the Sherman wasnt nearly as good as German tanks or as good as it ocudl have been..id be afraid to get in one!

[zombi105]

some soldiers called the sherman the "Tommie Cooker"

[bryan500cc]

i believe germans called them tommy cookers cause the sherman went up in flames too easy. and maybe there were alot of americans named Tommy in that decade, thats my guess

[zombi105]

yes that is right the germans called them that because with 1 shot from the main gun the ammo storage would go up in flames and i believe that was the name of a brand of cigarette back then

[bryan500cc]

the guys and I at work were talking about this and one of the olders guys said that he believes he heard they named a famous cartoon after this. I think germans reffered to Brits as Tommy's and Brits reffered to Germans and Jerry's. ie. Tom and Jerry! probably could have looked that up, but I aint gonna.

[retroflow44]

@bryan500cc "Tommy" comes from Tommy Atkins, a generic nickname for the British Soldier going back to the 1700s. Jerry, is said to be derived from the typical shortening of German(y) to just Ger. It goes back to WWI but didn't catch on big until WW2.

Tom & Jerry as a cartoon, was from 1940 - early in the War. The names were derived from an older, common phrase from the early-1820s...more than a Century prior.

[DonMeaker]

@zombi105 The Ronson was a cigarette lighter. "One strike and it lights" was their slogan for a time. By contrast Zippo referred to a version of tank with a flame thrower onboard.

[SplusEgamecritics]

@bryan500cc ya its true one shell from the tiger and that thing went of like a firework.

[scottduncan44]

@jakey130486 1400 destroyed tanks would mean 7000 dead crew if all died. A very unpleasant situation for the crews but that is war. Despite how many fans there are online for German armor most of the German crews were also killed. Armored combat was not pleasant and death could and often was brutal. Compared to the over all death toll in WW 2 that of US armored forces was not exceptional.

[Mcplkelly]

The average for allied crews was one dead one wounded per KOed tank.

[Mcplkelly]

Okay 90% is an exaggeration. The highest report I have seen is a Canadian Report on Sherman losses from June 6th to July 11th, 83% brewed. Other reports are usually between that and 70%. Brew up rates were dependent to a large degree on if the unit banned the practice of extra ammo being carried in the tank outside of armored bins.

All tank during WWII brewed up often, the Sherman was no worse than the Mark IVH series German tank.

[DonMeaker]

@Mcplkelly In many ways the Sherman was better. German and Soviet tank ammunition typically detonated, which is supersonic combustion. Sherman tank ammunition deflagrated, which is subsonic combustion.

[scottduncan44]

@jakey130486

It was more like 14,000 SHERMANS DESTROYED BUT THAT LEFT ANOTHER 34,000 PLUS bRITISH AND cANADIAN PRODUCTION OF THE cROMWELL, cHURCHILL AND LATER cOMET.

[MBguy2008]

@scottduncan44

Offhand I don't know of any Canadian production of those 3 tanks. Canada did produce around 1,400 Valentine of which nearly all were sent to the USSR and there was some 1,100 Rams built. Canada did use the Churchill and Cromwell int he war. Also the Montreal Locomotive Works produced 188 Shermans, the only ones made outside of the US.

[jakey130486]

whether the shells were in protective bins or not doesn't matter. it was common practice for allied and axis crews to go into battle with the things sitting on the floor if it meant they could get more in. you try telling a tank crew not to take as much ammo as they could. a german tank driver commented when asked about the comfort of his tank said you can rip the seat out and i'll sit on a box if it has more ammo in it.

[KHfreak7526]

if we had another civle war do u think yhe south would yous upguned and uparmored sheremans?

[OneEyeWonderWeasil]

dude...the majority of the U.S. military either has ties to the south or is located there. Also since the south makes up the majority of our economic and industrial might, I'm pretty sure they'd be able to use the Abrams.

[christof139]

Later Shermans had a decent fire control and retardant system in them, 'wet ammo storage', and some had diesel engines, plus the armor was increased on later Shermans. German tanks, including Tigers and panthers had leaky fuel systems and also burned easily.

[huntingfreak901]

o crap germans got em now there gonna sell em to iraq just wat we need sucide bombers in a ww2 tank

[Paciat]

Germans had their stuH 42, british build a 25 pounder cromwell and americans M4 105. A vehicle that was betwin M7 priest and a regural M4.

[bumdrips]

Does the word, "RONSON" mean anything to you guys ? The krouts could pick these things off all day from a mile away !

[Mcplkelly]

Ronson only serves to indicate if the poster is a history channeled educated remote control historian or something more. People who do a little looking up at allied Operational Research reports knows the German tanks percentage wise were just as likely to burst into flames.

There was nothing special about the Sherman for burning up, and it totally depended on if the crew overstrocked their tank with ammo, thus not allowing for all shells to be protected by armored ammo bins.

[bumdrips]

likely.. provided you could hit them, and the rounds didn't bounce off.. as for education, that's none of your concern..

[Mcplkelly]

Which given some 70% of German armor deployed in Normandy and the majority of armor deployed against Shermans during the second world war were German medium tanks vulnerable to even the Shermans 75mm gun at standard battle ranges, was not a huge problem.

[bumdrips]

yes, fair enough, but in this case getting sherman's on the beach in the first place was a task on it's own..

[alsace749]

They were capable of firing Smoke, HE, HEAT and anti concrete rounds and served mainly as indirect fire support for infantry and the 75& 76mm gunned shermans when they were on the assault or defense. From what I can remember approx 3000 or so were manufactured, with just under half being the VVSS suspension, the rest being HVSS (easy 8) suspension closer to the end of the war.

[harentrois]

Very interesting comments. But if you have 108 years in 2009, you had 64 years in 1945. My question is: How old was your father in 1945? Do you really have108 years:)

[SebakSwe]

In the english language you don't "have" years. You "are" years "old".

[harentrois]

Sorry, it's a mistake, I translate from French to English. In French you say I have or you have 50 years. Old is not necessary, everybody know that you're old :)

[fox100cool]

@harentrois jvois pas le tank tirer O_o

[alsace749]

Great footage of a 105mm armed M4 sherman (wish it were longer). I have only seen this version of the Sherman in b&w pictures. My father was a loader and bow machine gunner in this 105mm armed version in the 749th tank battalion during 1944-45 in Alsace, France. One of these tanks (called assault tank in US armored divisions & tank battalions) was included in each of the 3 companies A,B,C in a medium tank company, as well as 3 more in the headquarters company of a battalion.

[rygasewicz]

American Sherman's in WW2 mounted 75mm,76mm AT guns. They also mounted 105 Howz. This Sherman has the wrong suspension. The suspension was that mounted on the Easy 8 Sherman. This is the early HVSS suspension.

[bigboy382]

the american sherman had a 75mm gun on it and the sherman always didnt make it in a fight with a tiger

[WinchesterRanger]

The Israeli M51 Sherman was fitted with a 105mm main gun.

I didn't know they had them in WWII though.

[harentrois]

It's not the same gun, the M51 gun is a french gun in a french turret.

[WinchesterRanger]

Thanks yes I knew that.  This gun is obviously a lower velocity weapon, more of a howitzer than a cannon.

Do you have any details on it?

[harentrois]

No sorry, I'm the mecanician and the drive of this tank and I know only that it is a howitzer 105mm. Maybe you can visit military website about this gun for more informations.

[jerrymail]

It's a M4 howitzer 105mm /L25 with a muzzle velocity of 381 m/s when firing a HEAT-T M67 Shell.The muzzle velocity for a HE M1 Shell is 473 m/s.

[timpatjoe]

think they did though only short barrels and only a few

[JosheyG34]

No the fire fly had a 17 pounder(76.2mm) gun the allied up gunned Sherman had plane old 76mm not as good as the british but I was a step up from the 75mm. I have also never herd of a sherman sporting a 105 main gun

[KebeckERS]

i think the priest got 105 mm canon wtf whit sherman?

[YouFucked2]

The Firefly Sherman had a 75mm gun not the biggest but it was far higher muzzel velocity so gave it far better anti armour ability than any allied gun. The amercans were obessesed with low velocity guns and so were useless agaist german armour.

[jensh92]

no the normal m4 sherman had a 75mm the firefly had a 76mm gun

[Team4omena]

wtf Sherma tanks where no 105mm if tigers had 88mm lol XD

[LynnBaystheson]

i was woundering were did you buy the tanks

[harentrois]

The real owner of this tank is the belgian ministry of defence; but as volunteer, I maintain this tank. So I drive this Sherman tank outside the Army base for World war II remembering event.

[Bullettube]

What is the comparison to the British 12 pounder? or the 24 pounder? Many Shermans used by the Brits had this gun instead of the 37mm-or-75mm.

[UBIQUEROL]

there isn't a 24 pounder, and shermans didnt use a 37mm gun, shermans used 75 and 76mm guns, the british mounted 17 pounder anti tank guns into shermans, some shermans also had 105mm guns

[buttermobile]

Some Shermans were fitted with a 105 Howitzer to use as armored fast artillery. I don't know if they ever engaged other tanks in this configuration?

[LordButtercracks]

They sure did. With success. They even had AP shells. With HE they could disable other tanks by knocking out tracks and causing other explosive damage to the unbuttoned crew. Against any halftrack, armored car or infantry, which is 90%+ of the enemy you come across in combat, well it toasted them.

[revolrz22]

United States vs. German Equipment by Major General Isaac D. White also cites that the condition of German plate quality allowed the holing of tanks by 105mm HE, and there is one instance of a Sherman 105 cracking the turret of a Panther G.

[LordButtercracks]

There you go.

105 howitzer with HE was big.

As a stand alone gun, it was used to engage tanks with HE, so it makes sense.

[Ceilingductofevil]

Tanks weren't supposed to engage each other, actually. That was the job of Tank destroyers. Tanks were originally designed to cross trenches and support infantry units.

[livegrenade336]

that sherman doesnt have a 105 on it

[revolrz22]

Yes it does.

[harentrois]

Finally some one which can see well :)

[fbhn]

In the HQ-company of a tank-battalion there were always 3 of them. But I don´t understand the sense, because the standard howitzer was the M7 Priest.

[revolrz22]

Because the role of an assault gun cannot ideally be filled by self-propelled artillery. That's like saying German StuGs were pointless because the Germans had Hummels. They both fulfill different tactical roles.

[Trapper11]

Where are these things, is there a web site i can search it on? not like a search engine, those don't help!

[WaroftheGalaxies]

I agree, you can type in the most simplest thing you're lookin for, then you have to go through like 100 of pages to find it... or get nothing.

[skat1140]

do google search on "mons belgium tank" or:

w w w (dot) tanksintown (dot) be

[Meminem]

That event make every year?

What other tanks appear in the event?

[harentrois]

yes, every year sins 6 years now. You can see Sherman tanks, chafee m-24, Locust m-22,tank destroyer m-10, hellcat m-18, and some germans vehicles and panzer.Jeep, Harley Davidson,Dodge, GMC truc, Ward La France, Diamond,...

[WYATT666]

or if you are in the UK just got to the war and peace show and see all that and more lol

[longydagun]

i was there in an m18 hellcat named nugent it was truely amazing dont you think