STRICT LIABILITY - Drive carefully

[AndrewRH2007]

The UK's Sir George Young, MP for NW Hampshire and Leader of the House said, "I do not consider that there is merit in a change from the current standards in favour of stricter liability. To justify any such change, it would be important to have strong evidence of a benefit."

[moltocaca]

1:20...yeah, that'll stop those thieves from stealing my bike...

[IOIOIOIOIOIOIOIOIOIO]

What are the 4 countries where Strict Liability doesn't exist? I know UK and Portugal are 2, what about the rest?

[KrunchyJD]

If you have this type of law in place then car drivers will not be aggressive towards cyclist and it also explains one of the reasons that so many people in places like The Netherlands ride bicycles, because the drivers cannot be aggressive because of the fear of penalties. It protects more vunerable road users and it is how it should be.

[KrunchyJD]

I wish we had that here in Australia. Then Motorists would be less agro. Motorists hare are aggressive.

[RockyFisher888]

Great vid! Thanks!

[rforracing]

If I dont have a car, I would rather walk or take the bus.

These stupid cyclist can drive on roads all winter long and in the snow too if they love cycling so much.

[WestLABoy]

"Strict liability" may be the wrong concept. In common law countries, strict liability means responsibility regardless of intent, e.g., if drive too fast, you are at fault even if you didn't mean to speed. The better translation may be "presumption of fault." Drivers are presumed to be at fault unless they can show the bicyclist was. And this is not a criminal concept -- it's mostly about financial responsibility for the accident, not about locking up drivers.

[shmooth]

i love the video, but the text at the end disappears too quickly!

[MidnightRidazz]

STFU about the running of the lights by cyclists already! Red lights and stop signs were invented for the CAR a good 75 years after the bicycle was invented. If there were no cars we would have no lights and when the traffic grid is designed to accommodate bicycle traffic then cyclists will obey the lights.

In the netherlands, there are lights for peds, lights for cyclists and lights for cars. everyone is provided for and therefore you see very little friction on the roads between users.

[TubeParsnip]

@MidnightRidazz

"If there were no cars we would have no lights"

But we DO have cars. So cyclists need to obey the lights. And thye very often don't.

[pdxktv]

@TubeParsnip but we don't NEED lights. Signals and stop signs are really in place to allow more speed for cars, which gives them an even bigger advantage on the road and make it less safe for vulnerable users.

[TubeParsnip]

@pdxktv

It's irrelevant whether or not cyclists NEED traffic lights.

We DO have traffic lights on the roads, so we need to obey them the same as any other vehicle on the road.

[pdxktv]

@TubeParsnip yes, it's individuals should follow the existing rules of the road AND we should also re-engineer the roads and change the laws to protect vulnerable users.

[vancouvercommuter]

there are multiple traffic violations in that video

- passing on the right

- riding side-by-side

- riding when talking on the phone

obey the law of the road or get off the road

[Gr1mm1g3r]

@vancouvercommuter like wise... i bet you drive while talking on your phone...have probably been speeding(maybe not caught at it)...

sped up when the light was yellow instead of slowing down...

probably used your car to intimidate a cyclist or a pedestrian

i bet you even ran a stop sign,, even if it wasnt intentional

[24OrangesTV]

@vancouvercommuter None of these are traffic violations in the country where this was filmed. Nice try.

[TubeParsnip]

@vancouvercommuter

Riding 2 abreast is not a traffic violation.

You need to do some research.

[KrunchyJD]

@TubeParsnip Here Here, vancouvercommuter is probably primarily a motorist, that is why he is biased. In countries like The Netherlands they probably actually want people to ride bikes, unlike where you are from where they worship the car. The Netherlands has the right idea, protect cyclists because they are vunerable.

[KrunchyJD]

@vancouvercommuter Rubbish, your attitude, is why hardle anyone rides a bike in Canada. Cyclists can ride 2 abreast, and in most countries they can overtake cars on the outside, particularly in situations like on the video, in many countries cars can overtake cyclists in the same lane, if there is a safe amount of room, and likewise when the cars slow down it becomes more dangerous sometimes to cross traffic and overtake the car, do some research before commenting.

[downfader2]

@HnusnaOpice Try powering your car uphill under your own steam, LOL. Real men cycle and use their bodies as transport. Pressing buttons in a car is the easy (and often lazy) way out

[parsniptube]

P.S.

I'm talking about the woman @ 0:19.

She is not seen by the car turning left because she is crawling along next to the kerb, hidden by the volkswagon. Drivers don't have x-ray eyes. She should have been in the middle of the lane, or overtaking the VW on the outside, clearly visible.

[24OrangesTV]

@parsniptube The cyclist in your example has right of way. In the UK the car driver would have had right of way.

[TubeParsnip]

@24OrangesTV

Having right of way isn't enough. You need to be seen. Hiding near the kerb alongside a car is going to get you squashed, and it would be your own fault.

When cycling through a junction on the major road you should adopt the primary position.

[parsniptube]

Although I am a cyclist myself, I honestly believe that we are our own worst enemies. For every bad driver (and there are plenty) there are 5 bad cyclists.

The reason is simple: the vast majority of cyclists have had NO training, and have made it up as they went along.

I saw at least two counts of bad cycling in that video alone...

Especially the woman who cycled past the cide road in secondary position and SURPRISE SURPRISE nearly got ran over. She should NOT have been cycling next to the kerb.

[motocrosser]

I agree i bike a lot and have done extreme biking for the past 10 years so I myself am used to the streets and worst case scenario can jump onto the sidewalk, curb, ect because my bike is built for racing and tricks but i see so many people who ride like this on the street ~~ while better riders ride like this -- so yeah people should learn to ride their bikes better and learn to avoid a collision to extreme measures ie: do sharp turns and learn how to ride onto a curb at least.

My own thought

[parsniptube]

@motocrosser

What?

Seriously. "Doing sharp turns and jumping on the kerb" is both dangerous AND illegal.

Proper road cycling means that you don't have to break the law to get out of the way of traffic.

In fact, learning to cycle IN the flow of traffic is the best way of staying safe.

Google 'primary and secondary cycling positions' before you get yourself killed, please.

[motocrosser]

Well i live in america and its not illegal here and also i meant that for moments when a car cuts you off or you almost run into one then i think jumping onto a curb or being able to do a sharp turn can safe your life

[parsniptube]

@motocrosser

You might want to have a quick look on google.

If you are cycling properly, you will not need to get out of the way by jumping onto the pavement (or sidewalk in America).

[motocrosser]

alright i know many police officers so i have that cleared up but yeah the drivers here (NEW JERSEY) cant drive it is horrible. I am from germany and there is a HUGE difference between European drivers and american drivers and most americans dont even like bikers so they try to scare you and cut you off and all that so honestly all i can do is jump curbs or other things to stay safe WHEN A SITUATION LIKE THAT HAPPENS its not like i do it for no reason

[parsniptube]

@motocrosser I used to have that problem too. Since then I got trained as a cycling instructor and I learned loads of techniques for eliminating most bad driving.

For example, think about this:

Problem - driver overtakes you at a junction and cuts you up.

Solution - before entering the junction, move to the MIDDLE of your lane to stop anyone from overtaking until you are out of the junction. This is called Primary Position (controlling the lane). It's what I teach people, from the UK standards

[motocrosser]

Well of course i understand what you mean and i actually do that too and many other things because Ive been on the road for 10 years straight, in snow, rain, sunshine and even tornadoes but I myself am more of a extreme sportist and i used to be sponsored Am, but later dropped it do to money issues but i train a lot and i have studied cars and the dangers of them and etc. and know what i am getting myself into. If i was in the UK or even Germany i would ride differently because i do obey laws.

[parsniptube]

@motocrosser

You know, you're not the first person to say that, about American drivers being worse than in Europe. I've heard stories about 'screamers' - people who drive past and scream out of windows at cyclists to scare them. Is this true?

[motocrosser]

OHHH YES. I don't really get scared, rather more annoyed, but yes especially teenagers they speed by you really closely and either honk or scream or both.

[pseudotruth]

@parsniptube

It happens in the UK. I only seem to get that behaviour when I'm on my recumbent.

[KrunchyJD]

@parsniptube They do that here in Australia. Dont come here if you want a cycling holiday, drivers are aggressive. I wish I lived in The Netherlands.

[spiderwebbie96]

@KrunchyJD It can be rather scary when a bicyclist swings out in front of you with no warning.

[KrunchyJD]

@spiderwebbie96 Really, it is not as scary as when a 1000 kg+ car nearly misses you or pulls out without warning. Get serious, bikes are not dangerous, cars are.

[spiderwebbie96]

@KrunchyJD It's about as scary as having a bike randomly pull out suddeny in front of you. This is scary due to nearly hitting the cyclist or swerving and causing other damage. Motorists definitely cause the majority of accidents (Studies say between 50% and 80% of the time). This means that cyclists still cause accidents between 20% and 50% of the time. One of the big causes of accidents is drivers not seeing the cyclist. Measures can be taken by both motorist and cyclist to help prevent this.

[kcnirva]

Oh yeah, thats america. I live in Brazil and it's even worse! I ride a fixie here, and the only way to survive is to be fast and agressive like the bad-ass couriers. Breaking the law isnt' an option, it's mandatory in order to survive (run red signs, for example - if you wait for green, cars will just run over you). When I was in Germany, I respected every and each law, though. Just because... the drivers do it too, and there is cycling structure.

[motocrosser]

haha yeah exactly but some people dont understand that if they grow up in an area where drivers actually respect bikers but oh well some days its just more fun to ride aggressively

[KrunchyJD]

@parsniptube It should be up to the people in the more dangerous vehicle to look out for those in the more vunerable vehicle.

[edscoble]

1+ to you, it's not hard to be able to cycle safety and not break the law.

[carltonreid]

Two rights don't make a wrong, of course, and I'd rather cyclists didn't bust red lights but it's odd how some folks complain when cyclists do it but are silent when motorists do it.

We need more courtesy on the road, full stop. And this is where strict liability can play a part.

It's a food chain thing. Pedestrians protected from cyclists; cyclists protected from motorists.

[DavidRPenn]

Would be a good idea if the cyclists did their part ie stop at red lights signal.... drive in Oxford for a week and you will understand

[carltonreid]

Would you like me to give you some links to a ton of YouTube videos showing motorists ignoring red lights?

Which do you think would cause most damage to a pedestrian: a car busting a red light, or a bike?

Which of the two is also made of flesh and bones?

[PemboCycling]

@carltonreid - I had three cars go through a red light tonight, illegally (and dangerously) overtaking me to do so.

[EuanBuch]

Oh you mean like car drivers do? Last I heard red light cameras are quite the earners in the UK. How about you do your part, seeing as you're the one taking 1 plus tonnes of steel to the road?

[carltonreid]

The pedestrian angle is never mentioned by the mass media.

[downfader2]

My god were there nonsense about this when it was proposed (not even by the government either).

Where you can prove fault, fault still counts. The biggest beneficiary of this would be pedestrians too, so I dont see why people slam into an anticycling debate when they see this raise its head.

[drsquirrel0]

People just didn't understand, and the news paper loved the idea that "cyclists can cycle into cars by purpose, OH GNOES".

I think it should be worded properly... liabity is based on danger/size. ie. Cyclists would also be liable unless proven otherwise for hitting a pedestrian (a good reason to carry a camera too I suppose).

I'd love for this to come in, I (hopefully) drive and ride well enough that hopefully this law should never hit me on the receiving end.

[gordonthegopher666]

Europe-wide this legislation would be great.

[dfawatts]

Thanks for this, would love to see it come into UK legislation too.