do you still beleive in preterism, are you a partial preterist, or do you disregard preterism all together now. and another question: in matthew 24 when it talks about the elect being gathered do you beleive that was done before that generation passed away, like it says in verse 34. if so then wouldnt the term elect have a 1st century meaning only.
@sw24will Yes, i am still a preterist. I am using that label in the historic sense, i.e. most of prophecy is fulfilled, but not all. Concerning the gathering of the elect in Mt 24, orthodox prets have offered a couple of interpretations. Some see it as the rising of the dead elect souls from Sheol into Heaven. Some see it as the conversion of the elect throughout the church age. Either way, i don't think "this generation" necessarily requires the elect there to be the sum total of ALL elect.
@kingnebster ok thanks, and also i was talking to a full preteris and he said that the elect in matthew 24 were those who were saved before the destruction of jersualem and did not perish in the destruction of the temple. he would say that the term elect has a 1st century context only, so now people who are being saved are not called the elect, they are just people whom the lord has saved, they would not have the term elect for example apply to you and me, because it was a 1st century thing
@Musemento further, my interpretation does not rob these texts of the "greatness" point. God is telling how he is great...in that he calls forth all generations, first to last, and declares the end from the beginning. It's not that hard.
@Musemento You're not even dealing with the texts. Is 41 says "with the last" and 46 says "declaring the end". Neither one of these say "I am the last", as you would have us think.
I think taking these "beginning" and "end" expressions as actual historical time statements is inappropriate. Aren't these passages you're quoting focused on the GREATNESS of God and not the history of time/space? I mean, ...if God claims to be the Alpha and the Omega, does that mean that He's saying that He had a beginning, and that He'll have an end?...Of course not! That's not the focus at all. These are all simply hyperbolic expressions, NOT space/time continuum commentary.
@Musemento "if God claims to be the Alpha and the Omega, does that mean that He's saying that He had a beginning, and that He'll have an end?...Of course not! That's not the focus at all" Excellent point!
@Nike5265 you still have not provided a text that claims that the number of the elect increases forever. Did you yank these from a full preterist article without actually reading the verses? Not a single one here says what you claim.
Jason, sadly you have not changed your condescending ways from your days as a full preterist. Disparaging comments without any basis in knowledge or fact and no refutation offered leads me to think you have nothing but the traditions of men, which is the only argument I have seen from you. And no, I did not yank these from any site, preterist or other. They came from the Bible. These verses, as explained in my full email to you, prove your error beyond doubt of any but the proud.
@Nike5265 You're the one that actually started in with "disparaging comments without any basis in knowledge or fact" when emailing me and telling me that i rejected fool preterism out of "pressure" to "hypercreedalists." So don't give me any balogna about condescension. It is not condescending to ask a person if they have actually read the scrips they post. If i ordered a "large coke" at BK and they gave me a "small fry", it would not be condescending to start asking why that happened.
@Nike5265 Just take Ep 3:21 - There is absolutely nothing here that states that there will be an infinite number of generations. And yet here you are, insisting on an interpretation that only you and a tiny, little handful of people in recent history hold to, calling the millions of others who have preceded you "proud." Really? Millions of dumb, proud Christians have apparently missed the "obvious" meaning in this text until you came along? Give me a break. READ to understand, not to twist.
Jason, I understand the argument (excellent), but what do you do with all the "kingdom never ends" passages? Is it in reference to the eternity of heaven after the end of history?
@QuantumGreg Saying that the "kingdom never ends" is not the same thing as saying "people will eternally be added to the kingdom." Those are two entirely different things. As a full preterist, i realized that i was reading into the "kingdom never ends" passages this idea of infinite procreation and the only reason i did that was because my full preterist box forced me to. But if you avoid that box and just look at the passages, you can't possibly deduce infinite procreation from these texts.
The set of generations in this context is not ALL generations from Adam to some unscriptural last generation off in our future. The context is those generations from Abraham whome He called and his descendants nations and included all of his seed up to the last generation of Abraham’s descendants that He was “with”. This passage proves the fleshly seed of Abraham had a last generation, it ended in 70CE. Abraham’s seed by faith is promised in several places in Scripture to have no end.
@Nike5265 It is staring you right in the face, but you don't accept it because it militates against your view. There is not a single place in Scripture where the "seed by faith" is said to be unlimited. Show me just one.
do you still beleive in preterism, are you a partial preterist, or do you disregard preterism all together now. and another question: in matthew 24 when it talks about the elect being gathered do you beleive that was done before that generation passed away, like it says in verse 34. if so then wouldnt the term elect have a 1st century meaning only.
sw24will 3 months ago
@sw24will Yes, i am still a preterist. I am using that label in the historic sense, i.e. most of prophecy is fulfilled, but not all. Concerning the gathering of the elect in Mt 24, orthodox prets have offered a couple of interpretations. Some see it as the rising of the dead elect souls from Sheol into Heaven. Some see it as the conversion of the elect throughout the church age. Either way, i don't think "this generation" necessarily requires the elect there to be the sum total of ALL elect.
kingnebster 3 months ago
@kingnebster ok thanks, and also i was talking to a full preteris and he said that the elect in matthew 24 were those who were saved before the destruction of jersualem and did not perish in the destruction of the temple. he would say that the term elect has a 1st century context only, so now people who are being saved are not called the elect, they are just people whom the lord has saved, they would not have the term elect for example apply to you and me, because it was a 1st century thing
sw24will 2 months ago
@Musemento further, my interpretation does not rob these texts of the "greatness" point. God is telling how he is great...in that he calls forth all generations, first to last, and declares the end from the beginning. It's not that hard.
kingnebster 8 months ago
@Musemento You're not even dealing with the texts. Is 41 says "with the last" and 46 says "declaring the end". Neither one of these say "I am the last", as you would have us think.
kingnebster 8 months ago
I think taking these "beginning" and "end" expressions as actual historical time statements is inappropriate. Aren't these passages you're quoting focused on the GREATNESS of God and not the history of time/space? I mean, ...if God claims to be the Alpha and the Omega, does that mean that He's saying that He had a beginning, and that He'll have an end?...Of course not! That's not the focus at all. These are all simply hyperbolic expressions, NOT space/time continuum commentary.
Musemento 8 months ago
@Musemento "if God claims to be the Alpha and the Omega, does that mean that He's saying that He had a beginning, and that He'll have an end?...Of course not! That's not the focus at all" Excellent point!
Eschatology101 3 months ago
Thanks Jason! Thankful for Gods mercy, and for how His mercy is displayed in your repentance of the dark lie of "Full Preterism".
pjump56 8 months ago
Isaiah 9:1-2
Isaiah 9:6-7
Psalms 45:6-17
Psalms 102:16-28
Hebrews 1:6-14
Romans 4:13-16
Ephesians 3:21
Nike5265 8 months ago
@Nike5265 you still have not provided a text that claims that the number of the elect increases forever. Did you yank these from a full preterist article without actually reading the verses? Not a single one here says what you claim.
kingnebster 8 months ago
Jason, sadly you have not changed your condescending ways from your days as a full preterist. Disparaging comments without any basis in knowledge or fact and no refutation offered leads me to think you have nothing but the traditions of men, which is the only argument I have seen from you. And no, I did not yank these from any site, preterist or other. They came from the Bible. These verses, as explained in my full email to you, prove your error beyond doubt of any but the proud.
Nike5265 8 months ago
@Nike5265 You're the one that actually started in with "disparaging comments without any basis in knowledge or fact" when emailing me and telling me that i rejected fool preterism out of "pressure" to "hypercreedalists." So don't give me any balogna about condescension. It is not condescending to ask a person if they have actually read the scrips they post. If i ordered a "large coke" at BK and they gave me a "small fry", it would not be condescending to start asking why that happened.
kingnebster 8 months ago
@Nike5265 Just take Ep 3:21 - There is absolutely nothing here that states that there will be an infinite number of generations. And yet here you are, insisting on an interpretation that only you and a tiny, little handful of people in recent history hold to, calling the millions of others who have preceded you "proud." Really? Millions of dumb, proud Christians have apparently missed the "obvious" meaning in this text until you came along? Give me a break. READ to understand, not to twist.
kingnebster 8 months ago
Jason, I understand the argument (excellent), but what do you do with all the "kingdom never ends" passages? Is it in reference to the eternity of heaven after the end of history?
QuantumGreg 8 months ago
@QuantumGreg Saying that the "kingdom never ends" is not the same thing as saying "people will eternally be added to the kingdom." Those are two entirely different things. As a full preterist, i realized that i was reading into the "kingdom never ends" passages this idea of infinite procreation and the only reason i did that was because my full preterist box forced me to. But if you avoid that box and just look at the passages, you can't possibly deduce infinite procreation from these texts.
kingnebster 8 months ago
@kingnebster Thanks. Good point. :)
QuantumGreg 8 months ago
lovin the rap, dude!
zmode82 8 months ago
@zmode82 thanks!
kingnebster 8 months ago
The set of generations in this context is not ALL generations from Adam to some unscriptural last generation off in our future. The context is those generations from Abraham whome He called and his descendants nations and included all of his seed up to the last generation of Abraham’s descendants that He was “with”. This passage proves the fleshly seed of Abraham had a last generation, it ended in 70CE. Abraham’s seed by faith is promised in several places in Scripture to have no end.
Nike5265 8 months ago
@Nike5265 It is staring you right in the face, but you don't accept it because it militates against your view. There is not a single place in Scripture where the "seed by faith" is said to be unlimited. Show me just one.
kingnebster 8 months ago