The Professor of Wikipedia Strikes Back. NOTE: He has conceded that he was wrong

[HConstantine]

By the way, how did you come to believe that you know how to carry out scholarly research? You appear to be a high school student--home-schooled by semi-literate bible thumping parents I guess? So where do you believe that you could you have learned that skill?

[KabaneTheChristian]

@HConstantine

My mother is an evangelical, my father is a deist, and I am an Orthodox Christian who disagrees with both of their views. The research I have done on this matter is my own. I can't research to the degree that a credentialed scholar can, but I can certainly read their research and report their findings. I've participated in local and State Debate tournaments, taking several firsts and placing in almost all of them. I teach debate for a week in the summer.

[KabaneTheChristian]

@HConstantine

So, it's mostly my experience in debate.

[HConstantine]

The Wikipedia article on the Gita, by the way, appears to be adequately sourced for the question of the date of composition, not that the Gita is particularly old as far as Hind Scripture goes (The Vedas are older than 150 BC, for instance). It is certainly more relevant that a bunch of crap that desperately tries to undo the last 2 centuries of NT studies.

[HConstantine]

I won't go on , since every book you flash up on the screen (did you learn those hand motions jacking off), is the same: sectarian, anti-scholarly work. The fact you mistake their character shows how isolated you are form Biblical scholarship.

[HConstantine]

Fabricating Jesus is published by IVP, which is not a scholarly press, and the book is not peer reviewed. Craig Evans is not a scholar, but writes from a pre-determined sectarian view point

[HConstantine]

This Nash thing you flash up there is an undergraduate text book, not a scholarly book, and I've never heard of this Nash, nor does an internet search lead to any important work he's done. So you're essentially exposing your own ignorance of how to evaluate scholarly literature. This does not suggest it would be worth considering your opinions on actual subject matter.

[HConstantine]

"Inscriptional" You don't know the word epigraphic, do you?

[CosmicThinking]

Umm Kabane, I have a PhD in Wikipedian Studies. You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about!

[psevdhome]

Why is this video a mirror image? The titles on the books you showed were mirrored...

None the less, very good video, I liked your humorous approach to the subject. :) Keep up the good work, and

Χριστός Ανέστη!

[RitalinReaper]

A perfect example of the danger of thinking someone might be intelligent, simple because they talk at a fast pace.

Try this instead, think -> then talk.

Also your haircut reminds me of Toad from Super Mario

†Death always has the last word†

[HubbsClassics]

So, let me get this straight... You think that Wikipedia (with a 13% innacuracy and misspellings rate) is a less credible source of information than a conversion book written 2000 years ago by uneducated, indigent and desparate Jews (which had a horrible befief system already). Oh, and by the way, you should read the works of another "stupid athiest" by the name of Richard Dawkins, instead of those erroneous theologians.

[Gilmaris]

That last question is very odd indeed, as Jesus is shown with a halo every bit as often as he is not. Not that it is in any way relevant, but there you go.

Also, for each book you show, you say "credentials". But what are the credentials? An author isn't accredited by virtue of being an author.

[Vynjira]

Why are you listing a bunch of books that were credentialed by Theologians?

I have been catching up on your arguments(No I have not gone thru them all). Primarily as your essential arguments remain the same, particularly that Atheists reject the Historicity of Jesus.

The one thing I never seem to pick up in your argument is why you think Supernatural claims are supportable by text alone.

[Britainrulesthewaves]

is it just me or is wikipedia very secular?

[OneEyedJack1970]

" I wonder how you, as a very active christian, can possibly have missed that Jesus is very often depicted with a halo."

Our doctrine isn't derived from artwork.

[fingtyin]

Well, wikipedia is definatly more relieable than the bible.

Trimurti is the sanskrit equivalent to the english trinity. The fact that Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are often illustrated as concatenated confirms the idea that they are regarded as united and separated simultaniously, just like the father, the son and the holy spirit. I wonder how you, as a very active christian, can possibly have missed that Jesus is very often depicted with a halo. Just type Jesus in google images.

[XSC3]

The Hindu pantheon is made up of MILLIONS of gods. Having three of them together doesn't prove that Christianity "borrowed" this. Otherwise, where are the other millions of "Christian Gods" that are worshiped? Oh wait, that didn't happen.

Plus, where is this supposed to have come from? Let me guess, Jesus went to India and brought it back to tell everyone so they got confused?

[Interactivesystems]

your speaking an indian language right now, you use indian numbers.. of course ideas spread.

[sexyarii]

Oh, I love Wikipedia scholars.

After seeing your book collection (and profile down to the filoque clause) I believe we would get on very well.

[OneEyedJack1970]

"P.S don't you think it is weird that angels are always seen with halos? "

So what? I don't know too many Christians who base their doctrine on paintings that came along over 1,000 years after Christ. You guys come up with some of the stupidest arguments I've ever heard.

[jamestangent69]

my comments were deleted : (

wikipedia is quite reliable.

you don't need to read books to get valid information. however, you do need to read books to get 'in depth' info.

his sources were crap, they provided no evidence what so ever to prove that pagan parallels exists.

[a300pilotster]

If want to prove jesus was a hoax, ask the nearest jewish person,

[HandWProductions]

Are people actually this stupid? wikipedia! wow...

[FlUfF7131]

1 word

POWNED

[Deliratio]

what an awesome title

[Finiras]

wow you found a dumb atheist. you look so happy.

[tommylehman]

Magic Jesus? Magic Buddha? Who gives a flying fuck? Its all bullshit. Its all metaphysical crap that tells us nada about physical reality.

Ill gladly concede youre a smarter kid than I ever was. Youd just be better off using your abilities studying shit thats actually real. Focus your energy on mathematics, biology, physics or chemistry. Youre even snaky enough to make for a good politician or attorney. But religion, any religion, is a complete and utter waste of time.

[cerebulon]

4 billion people would disagree with you.

[aPaThEiSt]

4 billion people CAN be wrong.

[RJL738]

Thank you for opening people's minds, more videos like this need to me made.

Even if someone did prove a paralell, they must them still prove that the object being paralelled is still false.

[theatheistguy]

Just like to post a reminder, you're yet to give me any substantial references or verses for the holy spirit existing as anything other than god's spiritual power. Your grieving verse was not the holy ghost doing the grieving but being grieved and I told you that people can grieve the loss of a feeling i.e. love or a drug induced high.

[Bandfred]

Jesus Myth is probably the dumbest way of attacking Christianity. I'm surprised not more people have targeted the OT historicity. It would certainly be easier on the conspiracy theorists.

[plk11]

you should edit wikipedia so that the truth is on there.

[KabaneTheChristian]

I tried. Was reprimanded for bias.

[plk11]

you serious? Did you link to a real source?

[KabaneTheChristian]

There was something on Mithra which said that he was born of a virgin. I deleted that, explaining that it was NOT true. I think they finally did come around long after I stopped trying finally.

[jamestangent69]

P.s Atheist will kill Christians, like the Jewish Genocide, but it will be much worst.

The U.N has officially announced that there IS a influenza (swine flu) pandemic that is fatal & deadly. A pandemic such as the orthomyxovirus is estimated to wipe out atleast half of the worlds population, if not contained. people in N.Z are wearing masks every where. it is also estimated that a vaccine will be made within 4-6months. by that time it will be too late. sacrifices will be made.

god is coming.

[jamestangent69]

atheist are going to blame us for suppressing/oppressing intelligence/science/the facts of reality. One day you will realize that the death theists is a necessary requisite for the growth/expansion/evolution/rev­olution of civilization

[MetaphysicsAddict]

james, what the hell are you talking about man? lol

[jamestangent69]

atheist are going to blame us for suppressing/oppressing intelligence/science/the facts of reality. One day they will realize that the death of theists is a necessary requisite for the growth/expansion/evolution/rev­olution of civilization - as foretold in revelation.

[theowarner]

For the sake of stirring up a controversy, the intrinsic bias of someone like Ronald Nash, just to pick one of the names you rattled off, may or may not be equitable to the deficits of wikipedia. It's not as simple as "real research."

[theOvin2]

Why are your videos always mirrored?

[KabaneTheChristian]

Huh?

[theOvin2]

Your sweatshirt and the text of all the books you showed are backward as if you were standing in a mirror.

[thebloodsoul]

1/5 your stupid as fuck.  please die.

[KabaneTheChristian]

Want to prove me wrong on anything?

[thebloodsoul]

alright the other guy made a poor argument. but you can't ignore the fact that there are hundreds of mythology's that were created far before Jesus that involved some great Hero being nailed to a cross and rising on the third day.

if you want a challenge this guy puts it muck better.

watch?v=BNf-P_5u_Hw

[KabaneTheChristian]

HAHAH ZEITGEIST. The challenge still applies. Stop listing parallels and actually prove they exist.

[thebloodsoul]

alright this should be fun.

this is not an exact parallel and your argument does not stand to it because Jesus has been seen on a cross.

P.S don't you think it is weird that angels are always seen with halos?

[KabaneTheChristian]

HUH? Prove that there were other crucified deities. Cite an ancient text.

Why would that be weird or prove anything?

[thebloodsoul]

touregypt . net/featurestories/ankh1 . jpg

seem similar.

[KabaneTheChristian]

1. Is that a crucifix or another symbol?

2. What is it representing?

3. What is the date of that artifact?

[thebloodsoul]

i can't answer all of your questions with a 500 character count so here read all about it.

here read all about it.

touregypt . net/featurestories/ankh . htm

[GrumpyOldTroll]

Did you actually read the article that you linked to? There is no parallel with Christianity whatsoever.

[thebloodsoul]

what are you talking about are you really so far in denial that you can't see that the artifact is the origin christian cross.

[GrumpyOldTroll]

You are the one in denial.

Are you seriously suggesting that the ankh is whence the Christian cross comes? Do you not think that it might have something to do with the fact that Jesus, the founder of the Christian religion, died on a cross?

[thebloodsoul]

1. Jesus never existed.

2. the cross is widely accepted as the icon for Christianity if you haven't noticed.

3.  the ankh came from the Egyptian "God" that died on a cross and interestingly was buried and came back to life on the third day.

[KabaneTheChristian]

1. HAHA is really all I have to say here.

2. Do you deny that the Romans crucified people on crosses in first century Palestine? If you accept that fact, then that artifact you cite has no relevance.

3. You didn't read it, did you? The article you cite specifically points out that the artifact is a sandal loop.

Oops.

[thebloodsoul]

1. the argument that Jesus never existed is a valid one.

2. the Egyptian if you consider the fact that this Egyptian god came back to live three days after crucifixion then it is reliant.

3. the article was just for information and prof i did read it and don't really care about the authors personal bias or theories.

[GrumpyOldTroll]

1. Well, there is a reason that it belongs to an extreme fringe, like Holocaust denial: it is not rooted so much in historical research as in an ideological agenda.

2. bringyou . to/apologetics/JesusEvidenceCr­ucifiedSaviors . htm#Horus

bringyou . to/apologetics/JesusEvidenceCr­ucifiedSaviors . htm#Osiris

tektonics . org/copycat/osy . html

3. Why, then, did you link to the article, given that, far from supporting your position, it disproves it?

[thebloodsoul]

i already told you i linked that article for informational purposes.

i cant really tell what your talking about for #one but if your relating holocaust denial to the theory that Jesus never existed then you are a fool. the holocaust has mountains of evidence supporting it will Jesus has no real proof.

[GrumpyOldTroll]

Actually, there is much evidence for Jesus's existence. Have you read, as an introduction, Lee Strobel's "The Case for Christ"?

Denial of Jesus's historicity is actually akin to Holocaust denial, insofar as it is not rooted in the search for historical truth, but in an ideological agenda (mutatis mutandis: atheism/agnosticism instead of anti-Semitism). You are so desperate and brainwashed that you will adhere to ridiculous fables ("the Christian cross is copied on the ankh!") so as to deny it.

[thebloodsoul]

i never said that the ankh and the cross are directly related genius. but there is an overwhelming amount of similarities between Egyptian mythology, Roman mythology, Greak mythology and the christen fairy tales. you believe in you religion only for relief from your fear of death and Hell... grow up see the truth.

[GrumpyOldTroll]

Allow me to quote you; referring to the ankh, you said: "the artifact is the origin christian cross."

The alleged similarities are contrived distortions, which simply do not stand up to scrutiny.

Are you some kind of mind reader? If so, you might want to work on it a bit. I believe in Christianity because of the evidence, not due to fear of death; I was quite comfortable as an atheist. (And why do atheists love that genetic fallacy so much?)

[thebloodsoul]

they is no evidence at all that supports Christianity. and i was talking about how the ankh encouraged the cross to be the symbol of Christianity. you have the lies of the bible banged into your head so hard you can't recognize the truth even when its supported with seas of evidence. I'm not here because i hate you I'm here because i want to help you see the truth.

[GrumpyOldTroll]

You can keep repeating to yourself like a mantra that "they [sic] is no evidence at all that supports Christianity", it does not make it true. You should really look into Lee Strobel's "The Case for Christ".

God bless you!

[thebloodsoul]

I've already watched it. nothing in the video is in the least bit credible. it just mindless propaganda. i truly feel sorry for you i cant imagine how it feels to constantly live a lie.

[GrumpyOldTroll]

What video are you talking about?

[thebloodsoul]

The Verdict on the Case For Christ - Lee Strobel

[jsf3483]

ad hominems dont take much intelligence if any

[TheIrrationalAtheist]

LMAO 1:36

[KabaneTheChristian]

What exactly?

[TheIrrationalAtheist]

haha no, just you naming all the books, "Habermas, credential!!!"

[ChrisPassFl]

WHOOPED HIS ASSSS!

[Apologist325]

There are no primary sources showing any parallels. Wikepedia is secondary, not reliable and is edited by people.

[qanazir]

Isn't this little discussion you two are having, dwindling at minute details and decomposing into Personal attacks?

[Knowntje]

you might wanna take a look at my discussion with jetpackninjadinosaur in the comment section of his video. especially what he says at the end:

"Yah your right. I"m starting to see this now.

I'll stick to my typical approach.

My own damn fault for buying into it. "

[crazycrazycaleb]

Christian books don't count as credible research as you try to suggest.

[xEternalRosex]

Kinda hard to do research into Christianity without Christian books...

[KabaneTheChristian]

They do when they are written by credentialed scholars, idiot. Plus, JAT Robinson isn't even a Christian.

[crazycrazycaleb]

Awhh, the emo little christian boy on youtube needs to go with name calling.

Good job showing your moral superiority.

Credentialed by who?

[KabaneTheChristian]

So you whine at me for name calling, while at the same time calling me "emo"? If you knew me you would know I'm not emo haha.

Credentialed by universities, duh.

[crazycrazycaleb]

As a Christian you are called to live as an example of Christ to others.

Your condescending nature shows me that Christ hasn't made you any better, and that you chose to be a dick, because you don't really care, and I'd have to conclude because somewhere in your head you know that Christianity is bullshit.

I don't care if you use ad-homs, they're fun. I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of calling yourself a representation of Christ, and being condescending.

[Kabane52]

"As a Christian you are called to live as an example of Christ to others."

Like Matthew 23?

"chose to be a dick,"

It's called riposte. Look it up.

"you know that Christianity is bullshit."

And you are suppressing the knowledge of God. I can play your games.

Hey, what about those credentialed scholars? Have you forgotten about those or are you going to admit that you were wrong in insulting them?

[crazycrazycaleb]

I suppose The character jesus in the story was allowed to because he was "god's son", but you aren't allowed to.

Consult Mathew 5 "Whoever shalt say 'thou fool' is in danger of Hell fire.

I don't think a degree makes some a credentialed scholar.

[Kabane52]

AHA! The old Matthew 5 canard? First, Jesus says BROTHER. Brother refers to brethren in Christ. Second, fool refers back to the psalm where it refers to pagans as fools. Basically, if you deny the Holy Spirit has done any work in a believer, you have blasphemed the Spirit and are in danger of hellfire.

That's how you do exegesis.

LOL. What are credentials then? Agreement with your views?

[crazycrazycaleb]

I deny the holy spirit has done any work in a believer in christ, and I deny that it has

ever done anything.

I'm not afraid of your hell.

1. It sounds better than your heaven.

2. An afterlife is an ancient laughable concept.

[KabaneTheChristian]

The blasphemy challenge? Give me a break! If you don't believe the Spirit exists, it is impossible for you to blaspheme it.

[crazycrazycaleb]

Right now I believe it exists, and I know it hasn't done anything in anyone's life.

Do I go to hell now?

[KabaneTheChristian]

No you don't. Don't be facetious.

[crazycrazycaleb]

I really do.

You've convinced me that he exists by calling me an idiot for not believing.

I now believe that the holy spirit exists, and I know he hasn't done anything in anyone's life.

[KabaneTheChristian]

Sure, burn baby.

[crazycrazycaleb]

What am I going to burn in?

[deepelmdesciple]

lol. good to see you here pushing those christians' buttons. I wonder how long before they realize you're not a rational human being. Maybe you'll get one to freak out before they find out what your goal is lol.

[xEternalRosex]

'. An afterlife is an ancient laughable concept'

That's my area of expertise.

What research have you done to come to this conclusion?

[migkillertwo]

"2. An afterlife is an ancient laughable concept."

I'd be really interested in your responses to the numerous arguments for mind/body dualism in contemporary philosophy of mind. The existence of such a mind apart from our bodies would nicely prove (via occam's razor) that there is life after death.

[trevoaij44]

And what arguments would you say those are? argument from free will and the argument from qualitative states?

[migkillertwo]

the argument from free will is a very interesting argument, and the argument from qualitative states would be an example.

[trevoaij44]

Why would you call it interesting?

Qualitative states aren't as persuasive to me as free will is. There is just no way there could be free will unless there is some sort of unembodied mind. Ever since Peter Van Inwagen proposed the consequence argument, compatibilism has been nothing more than a joke. So because of that and the obvious fact that the physical world is determined by prior causes and natural law, how could someone hold to ontological naturalism and free will at the same time?

[migkillertwo]

"Why would you call it interesting?"

it demonstrates that there is not an identity relationship between the mind and the body

[TheGamingWeasel]

Mind/body dualism is completely discredited in contemporary philosophy of mind.

I know that because I'm currently an undergraduate in philosophy.

[MetaphysicsAddict]

mind/body dualism is not at all "completely discredited in comtempory philosophy of mind". I've been studying philosophy for years (both formally and informally). A more accurate statement would be that "mind/body dualism is very controversial with varying views among different philosophers".

Part of the problem is spelling out exactly what we mean by dualism. Either way, I respect your right to disagree with it, but it's not somehow obviously mistaken.

peace

[TheGamingWeasel]

By dualism I've meant kartesian dualism.

[MetaphysicsAddict]

IMO, research from NDEs and parapsychology indicates that the mind is somehow (at least partially) separate from the brain. I know those fields are controversial and I'm aware of skeptical objections (which I dispute, but I digress). I'd say that the brain receives consciousness, just as a television or radio receives information from outside of itself. *That* particular idea has not been discredited. If anything, it's gaining support (ironically, the support is coming from empirical research).

[TheGamingWeasel]

I don't have anything against that idea. One time I practiced astral projection and I had certain "experiences" which lead me to the conclusion that the mind will never be reduced to completely to the brain and that perhaps death isn't the end of us.

Personally, I'm a property dualist. The mind can't be reduce to the brain but supervenes on it.

As a committed christian I believe in the resurrection. So even a christian has to embrace minimal physicalism.

[TheGamingWeasel]

Jesus and Paul said that we need a body and it is not the christian's business to think that the mind is something totally immaterial that can float independently of the body.

[Didums222]

Refuting mind/body dualism is easy, two words: Brain Damage.

Explain to me how the Material and Immaterial can interact, explain to me how there can be a middle ground (medium) by which these two opposites can interact, please, do it. Immaterial + Material = contradiction, so you must explain a method of how information could be transfered between the two mediums that is not by combining the two together into a separate category (which is basically ghosts) because it is logically invalid.

[Apologist325]

Why not? You are ruling out data prior to examination. To reject Christian books because they are Christian, is a form of the ad hominem fallacy. Deal with the arguments, not the person making the arguments. And we don't even need Christian books. Virtually ALL scholars today laugh at the pagan-parallel thesis. TND Mettinger of Sweden is not even a Christian. Read his book "the Riddle of Resurrection" where he shows what contemporary scholars say.

[AgApE010]

"Christian books don't count as credible research as you try to suggest."

And why not?

[crazycrazycaleb]

Just so you know, Christian books don't really count as real research either.

: p

[xEternalRosex]

Because an 'atheist' book would?

[xEternalRosex]

Funny how google and wikipedia have replaced honest research.

[Knowntje]

he actually doesnt even know how to use wikipedia, because wikipedia itself discredits him. Bhagavad gita doesnt talk about the birth life and death of Khrisna, the scripture which does is bhagavad purana which is written the earliest at 500 AD

[Hez0]

Props to you for actually showing him *how* he was wrong, rather then committing genetic fallacies like some people in the comments section of his video.