Rick's style and pimps stance looks Just Like Larry Dodds!!! Rick was ragging like that at the time he was with the Minor Byrds..
Prince flat out copied "Shugie Otis" look at Shugie's 1969 LP Cover that had Strawberry Letter 23.. Then look at Prince's Debut LP " For You" circa 1978.
Ok, let's make one thing clear. At 0:50, when the narrator says "Move Your Boogie Body" is disco -- WRONG. That track is straight-up dance-floor funk.
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As far as style and dress goes, i got 2 words for all to research. Little Richard, now with that being said, prince looks exactly like him in his heyday and the rest adopted his flambouyant style. Some even copied his femme like persona and dress with the ruffled shirts and big heels, sound familar?
And for the Prince comments: Artists don't work in a vacuum and most are going to be influenced by other acts. That said, there is a difference between having a musical influence (to which Prince has claimed and been compared, ranging from Jimi Hendrix to James Brown to Joni Mitchell) and what The Bar-Kays did. The Bar-Kays practically heard what was hot on the radio and went into the studio and did their own version of it. What The Bar-Kays did was more like hijacking.
Biggest ripoff Michael Jackson finally admitting he stole the "give it to me baby base line from Rick James for the thriller song. Rick James was the king of Punk Funk. Despite racist MTV not playing his videos he was still was huge. If racist MTV played the Barkays we would be speaking about them being as big as Rick James and the MTV promoted fem Prince.
At least Rick James Befriended and admitted he admired the Barkays. The little shrimp Prince never admits to borrowing or admiring the BarKays or Rick James!
The problem with your argument about how acts dressed is that eclectic style traces its roots to wilder rock acts and people like Jimi Hendrix and Sly Stone of the late '60s. The funk acts continued in that style in the '70s, so it's not attributed to The Bar-Kays. Second, you keep acting like The Bar-Kays was this major act in the early '70s. Throw the pre-crash band and the only hit song The Bar-Kays had prior to its Mercury days was 1971's "Son of Shaft."
Another example of The Bar-Kays' copycat tendencies: the remix version of "Sexomatic," which definitely was inspired by the remix of Yes' "Owner of a Lonely Heart." I thought it was a great way to breath life into the original lame version, but it clearly was inspired by the Trevor Horn/The Art of Noise sound.
In addition to some of the songs named as cases of The Bar-Kays blatantly copying songs, you can add "Standing on the Outside" and "Unforgettable Dream" as Commodores ballads ripoffs. "Dirty Dancer" was clearly a "Billie Jean" knockoff. The problem I had with some of The Bar-Kays' knockoffs that they were so blatant I could not listen to them.
"Your Place or Mine was their copy of Erotic City by the Purple One....more to come as I think of them."
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You must be talking about that version of the song that appeared on "The best of The Bar-Kays Vol. 2," because the original version didn't remotely sound like Prince's "Erotic City." In fact, the version on that compilation was not the original version on the album "Bangin' the Walls," the single version or the 12" version (which was essentially the album version).
Yeah, some of The Bar-Kays' songs -- see "Shine," "Boogie Wonderland," "Freaky Behavior" and "Freakshow on the Dancefloor" -- definitely were inspired by other songs. The Bar-Kays and their producer Allen Jones have admitted that in the past. But some of their best songs had their own identity to them that established the band as a consistent hit-making group.
Y'all arguing over the Bar-Kays being great 'copy cats' I call that evolving their sound to fit that era's taste but not losing their R&B Gospel, Soul and Funk influences. You can't say that about today's acts who copy each other but have nothing of their own musically.
@TheNewsoul2 The Bar-Kays did more than that -- with some of their songs, they literally aped what was popular at the time. Even with some of their best songs, they made you question whether they were inspired by others. As a fan of The Bar-Kays during their Mercury run, I heard a lot of their songs when they came out and said it, particularly on the blatant ones.
@CaptainMike1968 True the Barkays based some of their material on the top 10 but always added their own twist to it. There's also material that had their own personal stamp such as Shake Your Rump To the Funk, Let's Have Some Fun, Attitudes, Move Your Boogie Body, Up In Here, Boogie Bodyland, Body Fever, She Talks to Me With Her Body, and Do It(Let Me See you Shake) and not to mention Holy Ghost. No matter what you say bout the Barkays i think everyone can agree they were a live kick ass band.
@raygu1818 I have to disagree with some of the songs you named. "Attitudes" was clearly an Earth, Wind & Fire-inspired song. "Boogie Bodyland" was basically The Bar-Bakys channeling Cameo. But I agree with a lot of the other songs you named, plus songs like "Traffic Jammer."
I've read over some of the recent debate, and I'd like to get in on it. For real, though, EVERY FUNK MUSICIAN that I know and that I've ever played with has said that the Bar-Kays were exceptionally talented COPYCATS. I had this same debate elsewhere. Rick James biting the Bar-Kays? I think not. Listen to BK's "Freak Behavior" which bears a STRONG resemblance to "Super Freak." Better still, listen to BK's "Nightcruising" which sounds so much like Rick that it ain't even funny!
@Odawg96 I read some of your comparison of BarKays songs sent to my email. You're right that Shine mirrors
EWF's On Your Face. I know that FreakShow mirrors Midnight Star but the bottom line is FreakShow moved the crowd just as well if not better. Hit and Run sounds nothing like Get It Up. You also missed on comparing Attitude to Cameo's Sparkle since Attitude was released in 1977 and Sparkle wasn't released until 1979.
@raygu1818 I caught the "Attitudes" comparison myself. It's "ANTICIPATION" that sounds like "Sparkle." "Attitudes" sounds like EWF's "Earth, Wind & Fire" from SPIRIT. C'mon, now, "Hit and Run" has some of the same elements as "Get It Up", and I'm speaking as a GOOD musician with 25+ years of playing experience. I'm not knocking the Bar-Kays TALENT as musicians, just their lack of creativity. They were at their creative peak while at Stax.
@Odawg96 Cool. I respect your contribution to the discussion. It's a lot more professional and civil than the last debate i had. I'm not hearing the comparisons in the last few songs you listed but i get your drift. Yes Holy Ghost was probably their high creative peak but you got to give the guys their due on gems like Shake Your Rump to the Funk, Let's Have Some Fun, and a string of body hits for the dance floor. Move Your Boogie Body, Boogie Bodyland, Body Fever, She Talks To Me. BK's stamp.
@raygu1818 It's not that I think they are a bad group necessarily, but I just had issues with their copy cat tendencies. When they really did their OWN thing, they were AWESOME. I used to hear songs like "Holy Ghost" and "Let's Have SOme Fun" as a kid without realizing who it was. I was actually in my 20s when I found they did "Holy Ghost." I was having fits trying to figure out who it was because it was a band that had ALL THE PIECES inplace..and they sounded like no one else.
@Odawg96 You dead on bout the Open Your Heart comparison. I'll admit that is one of the songs i often overlooked whenever i listened to that album. I think they were trying to show a little versatility with that album albeit EWF influence. I listened to Deliver Us a few times but Open Your Heart sounds so much better with Sherman Guy singing lead on it.
@Odawg96 I have to disagree about The Bar-Kays' "Anticipation" soundling like Cameo's "Sparkle." "Anticipation" incorporated blues elements and had no rhythmic similarity to "Sparkle." I also have to disagree about The Bar-Kay's "Hit and Run" having the same elements of The Time's "Get It Up." "Hit and Run" came out less than two months after "Get It Up" debuted in 1981, no there is no way that could have happened.
raygu1818 I see you're all in for the BKs but dude my opinion of them stands they are good musicians....just not original.....The Mack is Back is one of their latest attempts so yeah.....I'm done with this conversation and I've deleted most of my comments cause its usless......
@fadarrell Return of the Mack is a remake of Mark Morrison from 1992 which i never cared for anyway. 50 percent of Luther Vandross's catalog is remakes. Also artists like Charlie Wilson and Ron Isley are dumbing down their artistic integrity these days to be relevant to the new generation. The fact that you don't see the Barkays as innovative musicians is simply a YOU problem. It's not a ME problem. Frankly i don't give a rat's ass whether you dig the Barkays are not.
@fadarrell Dude grow the hell up please. Your argument was that RJ never attended the Barkays shows or were influenced by them and it's like are you some music god. You don't know who the hell RJ was influenced by. I don't read well. Hell you can't even spell Larry Dodson as you mispelled his name twice in an earlier post Mr. Memphis. You can't even remember which BK's song Cameo sampled yet you know everything about the BarKays. You know nothing. As usual you blowing smoke out your ass.
@fadarrell Dude who cares about how these guys wore their hair. You got it all twisted. James Alexander merely stated that RJ used to attend their shows. He never stated anything about Prince. You're hearing what you wanna hear. It was Steve Ivory who is Jesse's homeboy who stated that the Kays had Prince and RJ beat several years before their time which is fact whether you wanna believe it or not. So you're telling me RJ was playing funk when he got into the business. Learn your history.
@fadarrell Rick James liked i've stated a few times already started out playing with Neil Young in the Mynah birds. Rick wasn't playing anything resembling funk at that time. It's not hard to believe that Rick watched the Barkays play live before honing his own craft. Jeez. The Barkays were friends with a lot of these acts anyway so all this other nonsense is for the birds. I'm just glad we had bands like the Barkays back then because the state of most music today is strictly shit.
@fadarrell Also remember the Barkays were among the first R&B acts if not the first to include flashpots and canons in their stage show. They along with PFunk were the first R&B acts to bring a rock atmosphere to a concert. To say they weren't innovators is downright ludicrous. Prince ain't no damn son of funk. Please. Even Bootsy said Prince played cute funk which is code for lite funk. I don't even include Prince in the greatest funk artists debate. Slave would slay him.lol
@fadarrell Obviously we have different opinions when it comes to the better performers Prince or the Barkays. Imo Prince couldn't even outjam members from his camp The Time or Jesse Johnson as a solo act. There was a reason Prince wouldn't allow The Time to open for him at some of his shows in fear of being upstaged.
The Barkays weren't just showmen dude. They merely kicked ass on the stage and would chew Prince paisley ass up to pieces live. Fact.
@fadarrell Like i said read the Phat Trax liner notes. It states that one thing both versions of the Barkays had was the ability to chew up the competition on the stage. Enough said. That even includes your royal rocker Prince lol
I actually enjoy the debate. You must have been in a fog while you lived in Memphis to say that the Barkays didn't set the trend. The Barkays were doing the wildest shit on stage while Rick James was a Mynah Byrd and Prince was in the basement with Andre Cymone. No band was as daring as they were on the stage outside PFunk. The Barkays streaked on stage, had women streak on stage, and were the first R&B act to bring snakes on stage of even which PFunk
@fadarrell Pick up a copy of Phat Trax Vol 1which contains the BarKays Hit and Run another song by the group that was their own. You can't accuse them of ripping off on this one either. Inside the Phat Trax liner notes it clearly states that bands armed with a slew of top 10 hits were afraid to take the stage after the Barkays because the Barkays had a take no prisoners style. I personally saw people walk out on Kool & The Gang after taking the stage behind the BarKays on 2 occasions.
@raygu1818 I'm late on the discussion, but I'm more than willing to jump into the fray. Yeah, the Bar-Kays were great showman, but they were copycats PLAIN AND SIMPLE. "Hit and Run" bears a STRONG RESEMBLANCE to The Time's "Get It Up." "Shine" sounda a LOT like EWF's "On Your Face". "Open Your Heart" sounds a LOT like EWF's "Fantasy". "Attitudes" has the SAME elements as Cameo's "Sparkle", and we all KNOW that "Freak Show" sounds like a certain Midnite Star song. Check it for yourself.
@kitrik23 There's some truth in that, but I think it's a cop-out. In the Bar-Kays case, most of their biggest hits beared more than a PASSING similarity to another group's material. With the Bar-Kays there's a PATTERN. I've got several posts on this thread naming specific songs. Take a listen to them and let me know if you thinks all "just a coincidence."
@Odawg96 "In the Bar-Kays case, most of their biggest hits beared more than a PASSING similarity to another group's material."
More importantly, it became so common that it was natural to listen to a Bar-Kays song and ask "Which song inspired this song?" Even when it came to the band's more original songs, there was some skepticism. That was because the band made songs that blatantly sounded like other acts' music.
@Odawg96 you fellows have a point about the barkay's marketing concepts. Not until you've seen them perform live, then you can appreciate them as musicians and performers. I seen them at RFK I think it was 78 at the Chocolate jam and they burnt it up. Especially the drummer's solo which seemed to last forever and another group you'll appreciate live was Mother's Finest they both gave you a whole lot more than what you paid your money for.
@fadarrell I guess you are a mind reader. How do you know that RJ and Prince didn't follow or listen to the BarKays. You have no proof. You sure you are not a bitter Temprees member. lol I was born into funk so you saying that my opinion doesn't hold weight don't even matter. You are just another person on the internet who has an opinion. No hard feelings.
@raygu1818 "I guess you are a mind reader. How do you know that RJ and Prince didn't follow or listen to the BarKays. You have no proof."
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It is also a claim James Alexander knows that cannot be substantiated, given that Rick James is dead and Prince doesn't do interviews. The Bar-Kays were not a big enough act in the '70s and '80s to be chronicled by the mass media and this is way before today's media exposure and technological advances. He knows it can't be proven or disproven.
@fadarrell You don't have to live in Memphis to know that the Barkays were innovators. They put their own stamp on their songs even if it mirrored another artist. They punked out Dirty Dancer which uses a Billie Jean keyboard riff. Regardless of our opinions you can agree that the Barkays were probably one of the top 5 touring R&B bands of all time if not the best. Larry Blackmon even stated in an article i read years ago he learned the ropes by touring with the Barkays and Parliament.
I never said that the Barkays didn't record songs that mirrored the sounds of the time but to state that all of their songs were that way is ridiculous. Songs like Holy Ghost, Shake Your Rump to The Funk, Let's Have Some Fun, Attitude, Do It(Let Me See You Shake, She Talks to Me With Her Body, Move Your Boogie Body, and Boogie Bodyland were all the Barkays own Memphis style funk. To say they weren't innovators is downright ludicrous. Their goal was to simply get people to shake their asses.
@fadarrell I know that Slyde was a Slave remake. I said that Cameo chose to sample the Barkays in the song. If they didn't appreciate the Barkays why would they use the sample. Not trying to tear you down but since you say you live in Memphis you have just lost a little credibility. Cameo sampled Larry Dodson's voice on Let's Have Some Fun not Shake Your Rump to the Funk of which both songs were not copycat songs of other artists.
anyone who lived in Memphis like I do knew that the BK's were copycats starting back way early after they regrouped sooooo your opinion doesn't hold weight here WE SAW THE STUFF HAPPEN AS IT UNFOLDED RIGHT BEFORE OUR EYES AND HEARD THE STUFF BEFORE IT HIT THE NATIONAL AIRWAVES.....right AFTER Rick James or Prince or EWF, or CAMEO, or Confunkshun, or DeBarge, or who ever else had a hit they came out with a SOUND ALIKE SONG. so stuff it.
I not taking it way too serious just pointing out that the band known as Bar Kays were and still are a band that follows ALTHOUGH THEY ARE KICK BUT MUSICIANS THEY DID INOVATE ANYTHING. the look, Parliament with a mix of EWF the sound, anything that is hot at the time. I NEVER said Prnce or RJ didn't follow ANYBODY. I said THEY BOTH DIDN"T COPY THE BAR KAYS but that the BK's copied PRNCE and RJ WHENEVER THEY KNEW THEIR SOUND and LOOK WAS MAKING MONEY.
All this nonsense about Prince being an innovator and not a follower. I dig Prince and he did some great things but even Ray Charles can see from his grave that Prince swagger jacked James Brown, Little Richard, and Jimi Hendrix. What moron doesn't know he borrowed heavily from Hendrix. Hell even Jesse Johnson called him out on that shit when they met. lol Delirious from 1999. Shit if that isn't Elvis Presley i don't know what is. 2003 Musicology is James Brown and so is Sexy MF. Enough said.
@raygu1818 I said he didn't follow the BAR-KAYS....pay attention....everyone is influenced by the people you named but you still haven't addressed the list of songs by the BK's and the ones they copied the sound from that I provided below......my point like others was that the BK's always searched for what was hot at the time and never brought their own SOUND.
@raygu1818 a lot of artists are influenced by someone else but the thing is to be creative and do something different. that's what the bar kays did when it came to music and style. i love prince but everything he did wasn't original and when he played the guitar you automatically saw jimi hendrix. i know a lot of his fans say he was an innovator and stood out the box, which he did but some of the things he did came from someone else.
This is claiming that people weren't dressing like that ack then.....uuuuhh Ohio Players, Confunkshun, Earth, Wind, and Fire, Parlliament, and every other funk band dressed like this and THAT's were Rick James and Prince got their inspiration. I doubt very seriously that RJ was taking pictures of the Bar Kays to get ideas on how to dress. That's a claim he knows nobody can varify or deny so just put it out there.
@fadarrell Maybe the Ohio Players and Parliament were dressing similar like that back then but the majority of the bands weren't. Fact. Look at all the Barkays old Stax albums. EWF definitely weren't dressing like the Barkays and neither ConFunkshun. The Barkays were the oddest act at Stax. Nobody at Stax were dressing like them either with blond wigs and the wild outfits they were wearing. It's a reason the Rock Hall of fame requested them. Larry D was also the first to bring a boa to the stage
@fadarrell "This is claiming that people weren't dressing like that ack then.....uuuuhh Ohio Players, Confunkshun, Earth, Wind, and Fire, Parlliament, and every other funk band dressed like this and THAT's were Rick James and Prince got their inspiration."
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Exactly. And those acts got their inspiration from acts like Sly & The Family Stone and some of the wilder rock acts of the '60s and early '70s. Even as a Bar-Kays fan, I have to call BS on James Alexander's comments.
@CaptainMike1968 To the end of acts not dressing like the Barkays back then is true with the
exception of a select few. Remember the Barkays Black Rock album was released in 1970 when
Larry and Winston came on board. Look at the cover. Parliament and maybe the Ohio Players(if they were
during the Westbound years) EWF and ConFunkshun weren't known to the general public before 1973 especially CFS. Also look at the album cover for Do You See What I See(1972) and Coldblooded(1974).
@raygu1818 Continuing here a little bit Captain Mike. A lot of the black bands to come like Cameo, CFS, EWF, Commodores, etc hadn't even had their breakthrough hit by 1974 with the exception of EWF with Mighty Mighty. I don't think James Alexander claim about the way the band was dressing ahead of other R&b bands is bogus at all. They were also dressing a lot wilder and louder than their contemporaries along with Parliament. Those other bands weren't sporting blond wigs and wild outfits.
@raygu1818 The problem with your argument about how acts dressed is that that eclectic style its roots from wilder rock acts and people like Jimi Hendrix and Sly Stone of the late '69s. The funk acts continued in that mantra, so it's not attributed to The Bar-Kays. Second, you keep acting like The Bar-Kays was this major act in the early '70s. Throw the pre-crash band and the only hit song The Bar-Kays had prior to its Mercury days was 1971's "Son of Shaft."
@CaptainMike1968 Nope i never stated that the barkays were a major act prior to their Mercury days but
neither were most of these other bands we are holding up on a pedestal. I simply stated that there is some
validity to James Alexander's point about the Barkays style of dress ahead of a lot of other acts which i'm sure some were aware of. I guess we all have different opinions. Hell one of the Troutman brothers claimed that EWF copied the Ohio players style and we all know that is bs.
@raygu1818 Unfortunately, there is no validity to The Bar-Kays being some fashion trend-setters. Acts like Sly Stone and Jimi Hendrix were dressing like that when the group was backing up Otis Redding. It was standard fare for The Bar-Kays' contemporaries to wearing stuff like that (see The Isley Brothers' 3+3 era, P-Funk, EWF, The Ohio Players).
@CaptainMike1968 Sly Stone and Jimi weren't r&b bands. They were primarily rock/pop. Look at Soul Finger on youtube by the Barkays. This video is around 1969 when they reformed and look what they were wearing. Now fast forward to Wattstax 1972 Son of Shaft. Black Rock 1971. The Isleys 3+3 wasn't released til 1973 and what they were wearing was cool but it was conservative compared to the Barkays fashion of that time. Yes OP and Pfunk were dressing like that but not many other r&b groups.
@raygu1818 Jimi Hendrix and Sly Stone have been cited by numerous of the '70s and '80s as influences, including The 3+3 Isley Brothers, EWF, Parliament-Funkadelic, The Brothers Johnson, The Temptations' psychedelic soul period, Prince, etc. And last I looked, Sly Stone was an act who enjoyed major success with both white (pop) and black (soul) audiences. I respect your defense of The Bar-Kays and I was a fan of theirs, but you're going too far to validate them.
Its EASY to claim Prince and Rick James copied them because the Bar Kays are old as dirt. But Prnice and RJ got their inspirations from the same place as the Bar Kays' did. The sad part about it was that the BK's were talented but CHOSE to copy the sound of their contemporaries rather than CREATE their OWN SOUND. This why they can wrongly claim that Prince and RJ copied them. RJ and PRNC copied pulled from the very source that the BK's bit off of.
@fadarrell Wow homie you have taken this way too serious. lol You do know that Rick James if he were still alive would be the exact same age as James Alexander being both were born in 1948. I don't see how Rick would be any less younger than the BarKays. Just to clue you in, Rick James started out playing in some banjo band called the Mynah Birds with Neil Young before he even thought about playing funk so it's not preposterous to think that he wasn't watching the BarKays after his stint in jail
Bar Kays' Too Hot to Stop 1977.....Earth Wind and Fire's Shinning Star 1975 base line add libs and horns very similar......listen to both you tell me.
@fadarrell "Running In And Out Of My Life.....every hit song that DeBarge put out.....lol."
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Sorry, but "Running In and Out of My Life" was on the 1979 album "Injoy." DeBarge didn't even make its first album until 1982 and did not enjoy its first hit song until "I Like It" came out in early 1983.
@fadarrell "Your Place or Mine was their copy of Erotic City by the Purple One....more to come as I think of them."
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You must be talking about that version of the song that appeared on "The best of The Bar-Kays Vol. 2," because the original version didn't remotely sound like Prince's "Erotic City." In fact, the version on that compilation was not the original version on the album "Bangin' the Walls," the single version or the 12" version (which was the album version).
@fadarrell "Your Place or Mine was their copy of Erotic City by the Purple One."
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As I said earlier, that version of "Your Place or Mine" that was on 1996's "The Best of The Bar-Kays Vol. 2" which was never released previously sounded like "Erotic City." But if I had to say "Your Place or Mine" followed The Bar-Kays' penchant of being inspired by other songs, the original verison reminded me of Tina Turner's "Better Be Good to Me."
the bar kays were really one of the first new wave acts too. although, and i remember reading about this MTV didnt play Freakshow on the dance floor, which was made specifically to be played on the chanell. which was very new wavish, along with Dead giveaway - Shalamar. I dont think the race barrier they had was broken at the time
Man, the 70s and 80s were PARTY decades. SEriously. I've heard stories from my dad partying all the time during the 80s. All night long. I guess they had the money to do all of that. Me on the other hand isn't the party type. I'm the type to go by the rules. Might be boring, but I love it.
LMAO at stonesee and fadarrell. Correct me if i'm wrong but weren't the Barkays
dressing and punking out at Wattstax about 8 years before Prince and Rick James even hit the scene or were my eyes playing tricks on me. Of course Allen Jones and the BarKays always kept their sound updated by listening to the top 10 but they always punked those songs out with their style. Cameo were influenced by the BarKays as well. Look at Cameo's Slide which samples Larry Dodson's voice on Let's Have Some Fun.
@raygu1818 Yeah they were there but I was speaking to the delusion that RJ and the Purple One COIED THEM.....They were there and at that time COPYING Parliement/Funkadelic and Isacc Hayes.....Son of Shaft was thier head liner song at that time come on man. Stop the BS......The Bar-Kays did put their mark on the industry but AFTER the plain crash they became only followers of the times...just like this documentary states. Whatever was hot at the time they tried to capitalize on.
@raygu1818 AND WHEN ITS ALL SAID AND DONE....JAMES BROWN STARTED IT, SLY AND THE FAMILY AND PARLIAMENT/FUNKADELIC PICKED IT UP AND PASSED IT, EARTH WIND AND FIRE TOOK IT TO THE OUTER LIMITS.....RJ, AND PRINCE ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FUNK AND THEY BOTH DID THE DAMN THING. THE BAR-KAYS......ARE HOMEBOYS THAT HAD THEIR TIME IN THE SUN BUT DIDN'T MAKE THE SAME IMPACT AS THE TWO I JUST MENTIONED BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T CREATE ANY STYLE THEY JUST COPIED OTHERS.....great musicians though.
@raygu1818 I agree that Prince was Funk Lite but the fact remains that the Bar Kays were not considered ground breakers in the funk movement they were followers not leaders.....Prince is more Rock than Funk but please don't get it twisted Prince would still Funk BETTER than the Bar Kays.
@raygu1818 Slyde by Cameo was ACTUALLY a remake of Slave's Slide with a sampling of a Bar Kays song Shake your Rump to the Funk....all this means is that they used a NEW technology as a tool to create an effect on a REMAKE......they did not copy the BAR KAYS sound like the BKs did when they tried to make an instant hit by copying the sound and feel of someone else's hit song......
The absurdity of the barkays insinuating that Rick or prince stole from them is delusional and laughable at best. The barkays were never innovators but followers, case in point their song freaky behavior amongst many other ripoffs was in the vain of superfreak.
Look at the movie Wattstax which came out in 1972 long before Prince and Rick James made it into the spotlight. Nevertheless all three were great acts in their own right, with their own unique sound
@stonesee1965 you should look up the interview with gerald levert. gerald's dad said that rick would go to the o jays show and ask eddie how he would sining a song. the bar kays where out long before rick james ever became a super freak
this is just delusional grandure on the barkays' part. Everytime Prince or Rick James came out with a style or grove the Barkays would try to copy it.....it wasthe other way around....they were taking pictures of Rick James and Prince at the concerts.......hell they copied anything that they thought would create record sales for them.....it was ALWAYS AFTER SOMEONE ELSE MADE IT FASHIONABLE that the Barkays would attempt the same stuff....I went to highschool with one of them.
@fadarrell AAAHHH....you and Stonesee1965 KNOW YOUR FUNK! It's interesting how the Bar-Kays copycat tendencies never seemed to come up in this documentary. They were so BLATANT it was ridiculous. And the sad thing is that these guys were TOP-NOTCH musicians who were awesome without having to copy someone else. "Holy Ghost" was easily their peak. The sad part is when I heard it, I had no idea it was them...because I was always used to them sounding like SOMEONE ELSE!!
"Don Kirshner's Rock Concert" was the show back then. You saw so many different acts on the same show. You'd see David Bowie, followed by Stevie Wonder, then maybe Areosmith, Ray Charles, etc. They don't make shows like that anymore. If you managed to stay up to 1 AM, you saw and heard great music.
I LOOOOOVED this show!!! Man, the Barkays were funky as hell!!! Larry was the ultimate showman. After hearing them say Rick took pictures of Larry, that let me know Rick knew real talent when he saw it. I hope the youngsters took notes; there'll be a quiz later LOL!!!
So true. Who is the guy with the goregeous long hair? I always LOVED his hair. He looks like he is playing bass, but I'm not sure. If that was not a perm, he had some Native American or something in his bloodline. Kind of remids me of Nick Ashford, who is STILL rockin' that long hair!
I didn't know which one he was, but I was SOOOO in love with his hair; it was just so beautiful. Man, you got to experience REAL music upclose and personal. Man, they would've had a fit if they tried something and found out you were 14. He did carry himself in a sexy way. Larry had it going on!!
@buddyjb5 ALL them groups were a little bit of Maurice White and unseen Charles Stepney's vision .Barkays had shine and Confunkshun had Loveshine and the Gapband had open up your mind....uplifting lyrics like that mirrored what EWF's music was most about in the seventies.Maurice White was known for years around the southern gospel circuit which hatched a lot of these former Preacher kids(most of em were) turned Funk band freakazoids.
This was when music was GOOD!!! I loved the positive messages they had. Now, it's all about "... gettin' mine/mines", "I'm on the grind" and all that mess. Who is Charles Stepney? That names seems so familiar, but I can't place him.
THEY are so right . That glam punk funk sissy sexy style frontman did not start with Rick James who Prince Absorbed from [it started began with larry] . THESE SHOW STEALING [yes they did and layed many a band in their wake....Parliament got buried by them and the BAR KAYS opened for them] Their concerts were priority and they never dissapointed. and that late 1978drummer....OH-MY-LORD!!!!
I never got to go to concerts, but I heard if you put down good money, BKs, EW&F, Frankie Beverly, etc. gave you your money's worth and then some. They say you got quality, which I hear is lacking in concerts these days.
@lepoetress Tickets would be about 13.00 to 17.00 for peanut heaven seats..and that did not matter because the bottom rows had no seats.Party was on the floor and them bands delivered. Though three to sometimes five on a ticket...man!! The Bar-Kays would take the show regardless . THE jam session improv set these back in the day bands apart .They were groomed in Gospel rythms,jazz ,bebop,blues and most of them played jimi hendrick's signature style of the blues.
I bet people wished tickets were that low now. Back then, you got your money's worth, be it record or concert and you didn't have all that nonsense. They wanted to get paid and keep the fans, so they made sure you had a good time, told your friends and come back to the next show and buy the next record.
@lepoetress I would have died w/o the summers budwesier fest. I was all up & into everything.. I got a few photos of behind the stage. sisters & aunt gave them to me. Hubbies didnt like the photos around.... wink wink! Hard to believe Larry is so heavy now? Rick had a gut too! Michael Cooper is huge too.. lol its not any groups to chase now. these young guys are rapist thugs no talent or class. they r not preacher kids. Larry remind me of a black mick jagger... when I look back on
LOL!!!! I bet you had a ball!!! They shouldn't hate; be honored to be with a celebrity magnet LOL!!! I can't believe so many of them got so big. I feel you on groups today. Not too many of them have the class or style the old schoolers. The "Black Mick Jagger" ..... I co-sign that LOL!!!
I would love too read that book!!! LOL!!! I feel you on that; if they have trouble with you talking about it, just imagine would would be in the book!!! I'm amazed they were so on point with all that going on. True dat on some of the "artists" of today.
No doubt about it. The Bar-Kays inspired the bizarre musical genius of Rick James and Prince, But what I luv about it is that both artist took the style and made it into their own. Similar to MJ and his idol JB. But Larry Dodson was one son of a bad mutha(shut yo mouth) lol. Luv that guy. Great to see him alive and enjoying the legacy he left behind.
They beat my uncles Ameteur Night at the Apollo in the 60s!! True Story! lol
MrKgbronx12 2 weeks ago
PLEEEEAAASE post this Unsung dying to see it.
scourge3 1 month ago
could someone please post the epispde of this unsung. me and a couple others would love to see this. please . thank u.
dropsey31 1 month ago
Rick's style and pimps stance looks Just Like Larry Dodds!!! Rick was ragging like that at the time he was with the Minor Byrds..
Prince flat out copied "Shugie Otis" look at Shugie's 1969 LP Cover that had Strawberry Letter 23.. Then look at Prince's Debut LP " For You" circa 1978.
billyjacc 1 month ago
Freakshow on the Dance Floor is patterned after No Parking on the Dance Floor by Midnight Star.
sherwinfitz 3 months ago
..maybe rick james jakkt their dress but prince had a style all hiz own..
odeskoo 4 months ago
Is the whole thing online somewhere?
Drexciyian 4 months ago
Ok, let's make one thing clear. At 0:50, when the narrator says "Move Your Boogie Body" is disco -- WRONG. That track is straight-up dance-floor funk.
BassByTheBay 5 months ago
@BassByTheBay
but dance floor funk is what white disc jockies and writers would later call disco.
skyjuiceification 3 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
When you get a minute check out my Video channel called
"Kato's Music Room" @
vodpod dot com/katosmusicroom
There are a LOT of inspirational messages from Bishop T.D Jakes, Bishop Noel Jones, Dr. Jamal Bryant, as well as complete episodes of my favorite TV shows like "TV One's Unsung", "I hate Chris" etc....You'll also find videos of my favorite music artist's like Marvin Gaye, Enchantment, Al Green & Gospel Music !
katofromgreenhornet 5 months ago
As far as style and dress goes, i got 2 words for all to research. Little Richard, now with that being said, prince looks exactly like him in his heyday and the rest adopted his flambouyant style. Some even copied his femme like persona and dress with the ruffled shirts and big heels, sound familar?
oakdawg04 6 months ago 2
Bar-Kays laid down some FUNK!!!! LAWD
MysticMoodism 6 months ago
@MysticMoodism Yes dey did!!
angelabrandy 6 months ago
And for the Prince comments: Artists don't work in a vacuum and most are going to be influenced by other acts. That said, there is a difference between having a musical influence (to which Prince has claimed and been compared, ranging from Jimi Hendrix to James Brown to Joni Mitchell) and what The Bar-Kays did. The Bar-Kays practically heard what was hot on the radio and went into the studio and did their own version of it. What The Bar-Kays did was more like hijacking.
CaptainMike1968 6 months ago 2
@CaptainMike1968 I agree with you. I consider the Bar Kays the best copy band ever!! They copied Midnight Starr, Prince, Rick James, etc.
MrKkapone 4 months ago
Biggest ripoff Michael Jackson finally admitting he stole the "give it to me baby base line from Rick James for the thriller song. Rick James was the king of Punk Funk. Despite racist MTV not playing his videos he was still was huge. If racist MTV played the Barkays we would be speaking about them being as big as Rick James and the MTV promoted fem Prince.
JOBS4usNOW 7 months ago
At least Rick James Befriended and admitted he admired the Barkays. The little shrimp Prince never admits to borrowing or admiring the BarKays or Rick James!
chinaboyX 7 months ago
@chinaboyX A voice of reason here. Larry Dodson spoke of Rick being a friend after Rick's death
and sung Mary Jane in dedication to a local news station in Memphis. James Alexander's son Jazze
Pha himself stated that guys like Rick, Charlie Wilson, and George Clinton would be over to the house
growing up. All these haters are saying there is no validity to James Alexander's claim of Rick being at their
show but they have no proof that Rick wasn't and it's like damn have you live Alexander's life
raygu1818 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The problem with your argument about how acts dressed is that eclectic style traces its roots to wilder rock acts and people like Jimi Hendrix and Sly Stone of the late '60s. The funk acts continued in that style in the '70s, so it's not attributed to The Bar-Kays. Second, you keep acting like The Bar-Kays was this major act in the early '70s. Throw the pre-crash band and the only hit song The Bar-Kays had prior to its Mercury days was 1971's "Son of Shaft."
CaptainMike1968 7 months ago
Another example of The Bar-Kays' copycat tendencies: the remix version of "Sexomatic," which definitely was inspired by the remix of Yes' "Owner of a Lonely Heart." I thought it was a great way to breath life into the original lame version, but it clearly was inspired by the Trevor Horn/The Art of Noise sound.
CaptainMike1968 7 months ago
In addition to some of the songs named as cases of The Bar-Kays blatantly copying songs, you can add "Standing on the Outside" and "Unforgettable Dream" as Commodores ballads ripoffs. "Dirty Dancer" was clearly a "Billie Jean" knockoff. The problem I had with some of The Bar-Kays' knockoffs that they were so blatant I could not listen to them.
CaptainMike1968 7 months ago
"Your Place or Mine was their copy of Erotic City by the Purple One....more to come as I think of them."
__________
You must be talking about that version of the song that appeared on "The best of The Bar-Kays Vol. 2," because the original version didn't remotely sound like Prince's "Erotic City." In fact, the version on that compilation was not the original version on the album "Bangin' the Walls," the single version or the 12" version (which was essentially the album version).
CaptainMike1968 7 months ago
Yeah, some of The Bar-Kays' songs -- see "Shine," "Boogie Wonderland," "Freaky Behavior" and "Freakshow on the Dancefloor" -- definitely were inspired by other songs. The Bar-Kays and their producer Allen Jones have admitted that in the past. But some of their best songs had their own identity to them that established the band as a consistent hit-making group.
CaptainMike1968 7 months ago
Y'all arguing over the Bar-Kays being great 'copy cats' I call that evolving their sound to fit that era's taste but not losing their R&B Gospel, Soul and Funk influences. You can't say that about today's acts who copy each other but have nothing of their own musically.
TheNewsoul2 7 months ago
@TheNewsoul2 The Bar-Kays did more than that -- with some of their songs, they literally aped what was popular at the time. Even with some of their best songs, they made you question whether they were inspired by others. As a fan of The Bar-Kays during their Mercury run, I heard a lot of their songs when they came out and said it, particularly on the blatant ones.
CaptainMike1968 7 months ago
@CaptainMike1968 True the Barkays based some of their material on the top 10 but always added their own twist to it. There's also material that had their own personal stamp such as Shake Your Rump To the Funk, Let's Have Some Fun, Attitudes, Move Your Boogie Body, Up In Here, Boogie Bodyland, Body Fever, She Talks to Me With Her Body, and Do It(Let Me See you Shake) and not to mention Holy Ghost. No matter what you say bout the Barkays i think everyone can agree they were a live kick ass band.
raygu1818 7 months ago
@raygu1818 I have to disagree with some of the songs you named. "Attitudes" was clearly an Earth, Wind & Fire-inspired song. "Boogie Bodyland" was basically The Bar-Bakys channeling Cameo. But I agree with a lot of the other songs you named, plus songs like "Traffic Jammer."
CaptainMike1968 7 months ago
Respond to this video... I just saw these cats 2 weeks ago with Cameo, ConFunkshun, Dazz Band, After 7,
and SWV(irrelevant) and the Barkays were just as live as ever. Larry Dodson is still the consummate frontman after all these years.
raygu1818 7 months ago
is sylvester unsung ep up on youtube
simonsez0800 8 months ago
Pimpilicious Bay Bay!!!
An all pimp band, Imagine that!!!
pc0p1mp 10 months ago
snl did a skit of this song when it was good. i love this song
mjjcng8958 1 year ago
I've read over some of the recent debate, and I'd like to get in on it. For real, though, EVERY FUNK MUSICIAN that I know and that I've ever played with has said that the Bar-Kays were exceptionally talented COPYCATS. I had this same debate elsewhere. Rick James biting the Bar-Kays? I think not. Listen to BK's "Freak Behavior" which bears a STRONG resemblance to "Super Freak." Better still, listen to BK's "Nightcruising" which sounds so much like Rick that it ain't even funny!
Odawg96 1 year ago
@Odawg96 I read some of your comparison of BarKays songs sent to my email. You're right that Shine mirrors
EWF's On Your Face. I know that FreakShow mirrors Midnight Star but the bottom line is FreakShow moved the crowd just as well if not better. Hit and Run sounds nothing like Get It Up. You also missed on comparing Attitude to Cameo's Sparkle since Attitude was released in 1977 and Sparkle wasn't released until 1979.
raygu1818 1 year ago
@raygu1818 I caught the "Attitudes" comparison myself. It's "ANTICIPATION" that sounds like "Sparkle." "Attitudes" sounds like EWF's "Earth, Wind & Fire" from SPIRIT. C'mon, now, "Hit and Run" has some of the same elements as "Get It Up", and I'm speaking as a GOOD musician with 25+ years of playing experience. I'm not knocking the Bar-Kays TALENT as musicians, just their lack of creativity. They were at their creative peak while at Stax.
Odawg96 1 year ago
@Odawg96 Cool. I respect your contribution to the discussion. It's a lot more professional and civil than the last debate i had. I'm not hearing the comparisons in the last few songs you listed but i get your drift. Yes Holy Ghost was probably their high creative peak but you got to give the guys their due on gems like Shake Your Rump to the Funk, Let's Have Some Fun, and a string of body hits for the dance floor. Move Your Boogie Body, Boogie Bodyland, Body Fever, She Talks To Me. BK's stamp.
raygu1818 1 year ago
@raygu1818 It's not that I think they are a bad group necessarily, but I just had issues with their copy cat tendencies. When they really did their OWN thing, they were AWESOME. I used to hear songs like "Holy Ghost" and "Let's Have SOme Fun" as a kid without realizing who it was. I was actually in my 20s when I found they did "Holy Ghost." I was having fits trying to figure out who it was because it was a band that had ALL THE PIECES inplace..and they sounded like no one else.
Odawg96 1 year ago
@Odawg96 You dead on bout the Open Your Heart comparison. I'll admit that is one of the songs i often overlooked whenever i listened to that album. I think they were trying to show a little versatility with that album albeit EWF influence. I listened to Deliver Us a few times but Open Your Heart sounds so much better with Sherman Guy singing lead on it.
raygu1818 1 year ago
@Odawg96 I have to disagree about The Bar-Kays' "Anticipation" soundling like Cameo's "Sparkle." "Anticipation" incorporated blues elements and had no rhythmic similarity to "Sparkle." I also have to disagree about The Bar-Kay's "Hit and Run" having the same elements of The Time's "Get It Up." "Hit and Run" came out less than two months after "Get It Up" debuted in 1981, no there is no way that could have happened.
CaptainMike1968 7 months ago
@Odawg96 The Bar-Kays admitted that the "Nightcruising" album was influenced stylistically by Rick James' "Street Songs" album.
CaptainMike1968 7 months ago
raygu1818 I see you're all in for the BKs but dude my opinion of them stands they are good musicians....just not original.....The Mack is Back is one of their latest attempts so yeah.....I'm done with this conversation and I've deleted most of my comments cause its usless......
fadarrell 1 year ago
@fadarrell Return of the Mack is a remake of Mark Morrison from 1992 which i never cared for anyway. 50 percent of Luther Vandross's catalog is remakes. Also artists like Charlie Wilson and Ron Isley are dumbing down their artistic integrity these days to be relevant to the new generation. The fact that you don't see the Barkays as innovative musicians is simply a YOU problem. It's not a ME problem. Frankly i don't give a rat's ass whether you dig the Barkays are not.
raygu1818 1 year ago
@raygu1818 cool.
fadarrell 1 year ago
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fadarrell 1 year ago
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fadarrell 1 year ago
@fadarrell Dude grow the hell up please. Your argument was that RJ never attended the Barkays shows or were influenced by them and it's like are you some music god. You don't know who the hell RJ was influenced by. I don't read well. Hell you can't even spell Larry Dodson as you mispelled his name twice in an earlier post Mr. Memphis. You can't even remember which BK's song Cameo sampled yet you know everything about the BarKays. You know nothing. As usual you blowing smoke out your ass.
raygu1818 1 year ago
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fadarrell 1 year ago
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fadarrell 1 year ago
@fadarrell Dude who cares about how these guys wore their hair. You got it all twisted. James Alexander merely stated that RJ used to attend their shows. He never stated anything about Prince. You're hearing what you wanna hear. It was Steve Ivory who is Jesse's homeboy who stated that the Kays had Prince and RJ beat several years before their time which is fact whether you wanna believe it or not. So you're telling me RJ was playing funk when he got into the business. Learn your history.
raygu1818 1 year ago
@fadarrell Rick James liked i've stated a few times already started out playing with Neil Young in the Mynah birds. Rick wasn't playing anything resembling funk at that time. It's not hard to believe that Rick watched the Barkays play live before honing his own craft. Jeez. The Barkays were friends with a lot of these acts anyway so all this other nonsense is for the birds. I'm just glad we had bands like the Barkays back then because the state of most music today is strictly shit.
raygu1818 1 year ago
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fadarrell 1 year ago
@fadarrell Also remember the Barkays were among the first R&B acts if not the first to include flashpots and canons in their stage show. They along with PFunk were the first R&B acts to bring a rock atmosphere to a concert. To say they weren't innovators is downright ludicrous. Prince ain't no damn son of funk. Please. Even Bootsy said Prince played cute funk which is code for lite funk. I don't even include Prince in the greatest funk artists debate. Slave would slay him.lol
raygu1818 1 year ago
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fadarrell 1 year ago
@fadarrell Obviously we have different opinions when it comes to the better performers Prince or the Barkays. Imo Prince couldn't even outjam members from his camp The Time or Jesse Johnson as a solo act. There was a reason Prince wouldn't allow The Time to open for him at some of his shows in fear of being upstaged.
The Barkays weren't just showmen dude. They merely kicked ass on the stage and would chew Prince paisley ass up to pieces live. Fact.
raygu1818 1 year ago
@fadarrell Like i said read the Phat Trax liner notes. It states that one thing both versions of the Barkays had was the ability to chew up the competition on the stage. Enough said. That even includes your royal rocker Prince lol
raygu1818 1 year ago
I actually enjoy the debate. You must have been in a fog while you lived in Memphis to say that the Barkays didn't set the trend. The Barkays were doing the wildest shit on stage while Rick James was a Mynah Byrd and Prince was in the basement with Andre Cymone. No band was as daring as they were on the stage outside PFunk. The Barkays streaked on stage, had women streak on stage, and were the first R&B act to bring snakes on stage of even which PFunk
weren't doing then. Funk historian herelol
raygu1818 1 year ago
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fadarrell 1 year ago
@fadarrell Pick up a copy of Phat Trax Vol 1which contains the BarKays Hit and Run another song by the group that was their own. You can't accuse them of ripping off on this one either. Inside the Phat Trax liner notes it clearly states that bands armed with a slew of top 10 hits were afraid to take the stage after the Barkays because the Barkays had a take no prisoners style. I personally saw people walk out on Kool & The Gang after taking the stage behind the BarKays on 2 occasions.
raygu1818 1 year ago
@raygu1818 I'm late on the discussion, but I'm more than willing to jump into the fray. Yeah, the Bar-Kays were great showman, but they were copycats PLAIN AND SIMPLE. "Hit and Run" bears a STRONG RESEMBLANCE to The Time's "Get It Up." "Shine" sounda a LOT like EWF's "On Your Face". "Open Your Heart" sounds a LOT like EWF's "Fantasy". "Attitudes" has the SAME elements as Cameo's "Sparkle", and we all KNOW that "Freak Show" sounds like a certain Midnite Star song. Check it for yourself.
Odawg96 1 year ago
@Odawg96 Actually, "Attitudes" is the wrong song. THAT sounds like EWF's "Earth, Wind & Fire" . The one that sounds like "Sparkle" is "Anticipation."
Odawg96 1 year ago
@Odawg96 Everything sounds like everything to a certain extent. They sound alike cause it doesnt suck
kitrik23 9 months ago
@kitrik23 There's some truth in that, but I think it's a cop-out. In the Bar-Kays case, most of their biggest hits beared more than a PASSING similarity to another group's material. With the Bar-Kays there's a PATTERN. I've got several posts on this thread naming specific songs. Take a listen to them and let me know if you thinks all "just a coincidence."
Odawg96 9 months ago
@Odawg96 "In the Bar-Kays case, most of their biggest hits beared more than a PASSING similarity to another group's material."
More importantly, it became so common that it was natural to listen to a Bar-Kays song and ask "Which song inspired this song?" Even when it came to the band's more original songs, there was some skepticism. That was because the band made songs that blatantly sounded like other acts' music.
CaptainMike1968 7 months ago
@Odawg96 you fellows have a point about the barkay's marketing concepts. Not until you've seen them perform live, then you can appreciate them as musicians and performers. I seen them at RFK I think it was 78 at the Chocolate jam and they burnt it up. Especially the drummer's solo which seemed to last forever and another group you'll appreciate live was Mother's Finest they both gave you a whole lot more than what you paid your money for.
countryfunkinbunkin 8 months ago
@fadarrell I guess you are a mind reader. How do you know that RJ and Prince didn't follow or listen to the BarKays. You have no proof. You sure you are not a bitter Temprees member. lol I was born into funk so you saying that my opinion doesn't hold weight don't even matter. You are just another person on the internet who has an opinion. No hard feelings.
raygu1818 1 year ago
@raygu1818 "I guess you are a mind reader. How do you know that RJ and Prince didn't follow or listen to the BarKays. You have no proof."
________
It is also a claim James Alexander knows that cannot be substantiated, given that Rick James is dead and Prince doesn't do interviews. The Bar-Kays were not a big enough act in the '70s and '80s to be chronicled by the mass media and this is way before today's media exposure and technological advances. He knows it can't be proven or disproven.
CaptainMike1968 7 months ago
@fadarrell You don't have to live in Memphis to know that the Barkays were innovators. They put their own stamp on their songs even if it mirrored another artist. They punked out Dirty Dancer which uses a Billie Jean keyboard riff. Regardless of our opinions you can agree that the Barkays were probably one of the top 5 touring R&B bands of all time if not the best. Larry Blackmon even stated in an article i read years ago he learned the ropes by touring with the Barkays and Parliament.
raygu1818 1 year ago
I never said that the Barkays didn't record songs that mirrored the sounds of the time but to state that all of their songs were that way is ridiculous. Songs like Holy Ghost, Shake Your Rump to The Funk, Let's Have Some Fun, Attitude, Do It(Let Me See You Shake, She Talks to Me With Her Body, Move Your Boogie Body, and Boogie Bodyland were all the Barkays own Memphis style funk. To say they weren't innovators is downright ludicrous. Their goal was to simply get people to shake their asses.
raygu1818 1 year ago
@fadarrell I know that Slyde was a Slave remake. I said that Cameo chose to sample the Barkays in the song. If they didn't appreciate the Barkays why would they use the sample. Not trying to tear you down but since you say you live in Memphis you have just lost a little credibility. Cameo sampled Larry Dodson's voice on Let's Have Some Fun not Shake Your Rump to the Funk of which both songs were not copycat songs of other artists.
raygu1818 1 year ago
anyone who lived in Memphis like I do knew that the BK's were copycats starting back way early after they regrouped sooooo your opinion doesn't hold weight here WE SAW THE STUFF HAPPEN AS IT UNFOLDED RIGHT BEFORE OUR EYES AND HEARD THE STUFF BEFORE IT HIT THE NATIONAL AIRWAVES.....right AFTER Rick James or Prince or EWF, or CAMEO, or Confunkshun, or DeBarge, or who ever else had a hit they came out with a SOUND ALIKE SONG. so stuff it.
fadarrell 1 year ago
I not taking it way too serious just pointing out that the band known as Bar Kays were and still are a band that follows ALTHOUGH THEY ARE KICK BUT MUSICIANS THEY DID INOVATE ANYTHING. the look, Parliament with a mix of EWF the sound, anything that is hot at the time. I NEVER said Prnce or RJ didn't follow ANYBODY. I said THEY BOTH DIDN"T COPY THE BAR KAYS but that the BK's copied PRNCE and RJ WHENEVER THEY KNEW THEIR SOUND and LOOK WAS MAKING MONEY.
fadarrell 1 year ago
All this nonsense about Prince being an innovator and not a follower. I dig Prince and he did some great things but even Ray Charles can see from his grave that Prince swagger jacked James Brown, Little Richard, and Jimi Hendrix. What moron doesn't know he borrowed heavily from Hendrix. Hell even Jesse Johnson called him out on that shit when they met. lol Delirious from 1999. Shit if that isn't Elvis Presley i don't know what is. 2003 Musicology is James Brown and so is Sexy MF. Enough said.
raygu1818 1 year ago
@raygu1818 I said he didn't follow the BAR-KAYS....pay attention....everyone is influenced by the people you named but you still haven't addressed the list of songs by the BK's and the ones they copied the sound from that I provided below......my point like others was that the BK's always searched for what was hot at the time and never brought their own SOUND.
fadarrell 1 year ago
@raygu1818 a lot of artists are influenced by someone else but the thing is to be creative and do something different. that's what the bar kays did when it came to music and style. i love prince but everything he did wasn't original and when he played the guitar you automatically saw jimi hendrix. i know a lot of his fans say he was an innovator and stood out the box, which he did but some of the things he did came from someone else.
bigvinamac 1 year ago
This is claiming that people weren't dressing like that ack then.....uuuuhh Ohio Players, Confunkshun, Earth, Wind, and Fire, Parlliament, and every other funk band dressed like this and THAT's were Rick James and Prince got their inspiration. I doubt very seriously that RJ was taking pictures of the Bar Kays to get ideas on how to dress. That's a claim he knows nobody can varify or deny so just put it out there.
fadarrell 1 year ago
@fadarrell Maybe the Ohio Players and Parliament were dressing similar like that back then but the majority of the bands weren't. Fact. Look at all the Barkays old Stax albums. EWF definitely weren't dressing like the Barkays and neither ConFunkshun. The Barkays were the oddest act at Stax. Nobody at Stax were dressing like them either with blond wigs and the wild outfits they were wearing. It's a reason the Rock Hall of fame requested them. Larry D was also the first to bring a boa to the stage
raygu1818 1 year ago
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fadarrell 1 year ago
Respond to this video...
I guess it's all a matter of opinion but Prince could not outfunk the Barkays in their prime. Fact.
The funkiest jam Prince had was Sexy Dancer and Holy Ghost would blow it out the water.
Prince was lite funk as i said earlier and he couldn't outfunk Rick James or Cameo either. Fact.
And isn't Prince like 52 now himself. He's 10 years younger than Rick James and James Alexander so
Prince is no longer the spry spring chicken he was 20 years ago.
raygu1818 1 year ago
@fadarrell "This is claiming that people weren't dressing like that ack then.....uuuuhh Ohio Players, Confunkshun, Earth, Wind, and Fire, Parlliament, and every other funk band dressed like this and THAT's were Rick James and Prince got their inspiration."
_____________
Exactly. And those acts got their inspiration from acts like Sly & The Family Stone and some of the wilder rock acts of the '60s and early '70s. Even as a Bar-Kays fan, I have to call BS on James Alexander's comments.
CaptainMike1968 7 months ago
@CaptainMike1968 To the end of acts not dressing like the Barkays back then is true with the
exception of a select few. Remember the Barkays Black Rock album was released in 1970 when
Larry and Winston came on board. Look at the cover. Parliament and maybe the Ohio Players(if they were
during the Westbound years) EWF and ConFunkshun weren't known to the general public before 1973 especially CFS. Also look at the album cover for Do You See What I See(1972) and Coldblooded(1974).
raygu1818 7 months ago
@raygu1818 Continuing here a little bit Captain Mike. A lot of the black bands to come like Cameo, CFS, EWF, Commodores, etc hadn't even had their breakthrough hit by 1974 with the exception of EWF with Mighty Mighty. I don't think James Alexander claim about the way the band was dressing ahead of other R&b bands is bogus at all. They were also dressing a lot wilder and louder than their contemporaries along with Parliament. Those other bands weren't sporting blond wigs and wild outfits.
raygu1818 7 months ago
@raygu1818 The problem with your argument about how acts dressed is that that eclectic style its roots from wilder rock acts and people like Jimi Hendrix and Sly Stone of the late '69s. The funk acts continued in that mantra, so it's not attributed to The Bar-Kays. Second, you keep acting like The Bar-Kays was this major act in the early '70s. Throw the pre-crash band and the only hit song The Bar-Kays had prior to its Mercury days was 1971's "Son of Shaft."
CaptainMike1968 7 months ago
@CaptainMike1968 Nope i never stated that the barkays were a major act prior to their Mercury days but
neither were most of these other bands we are holding up on a pedestal. I simply stated that there is some
validity to James Alexander's point about the Barkays style of dress ahead of a lot of other acts which i'm sure some were aware of. I guess we all have different opinions. Hell one of the Troutman brothers claimed that EWF copied the Ohio players style and we all know that is bs.
raygu1818 7 months ago
@raygu1818 Unfortunately, there is no validity to The Bar-Kays being some fashion trend-setters. Acts like Sly Stone and Jimi Hendrix were dressing like that when the group was backing up Otis Redding. It was standard fare for The Bar-Kays' contemporaries to wearing stuff like that (see The Isley Brothers' 3+3 era, P-Funk, EWF, The Ohio Players).
CaptainMike1968 6 months ago
@CaptainMike1968 Sly Stone and Jimi weren't r&b bands. They were primarily rock/pop. Look at Soul Finger on youtube by the Barkays. This video is around 1969 when they reformed and look what they were wearing. Now fast forward to Wattstax 1972 Son of Shaft. Black Rock 1971. The Isleys 3+3 wasn't released til 1973 and what they were wearing was cool but it was conservative compared to the Barkays fashion of that time. Yes OP and Pfunk were dressing like that but not many other r&b groups.
raygu1818 6 months ago
@raygu1818 Jimi Hendrix and Sly Stone have been cited by numerous of the '70s and '80s as influences, including The 3+3 Isley Brothers, EWF, Parliament-Funkadelic, The Brothers Johnson, The Temptations' psychedelic soul period, Prince, etc. And last I looked, Sly Stone was an act who enjoyed major success with both white (pop) and black (soul) audiences. I respect your defense of The Bar-Kays and I was a fan of theirs, but you're going too far to validate them.
CaptainMike1968 6 months ago
Its EASY to claim Prince and Rick James copied them because the Bar Kays are old as dirt. But Prnice and RJ got their inspirations from the same place as the Bar Kays' did. The sad part about it was that the BK's were talented but CHOSE to copy the sound of their contemporaries rather than CREATE their OWN SOUND. This why they can wrongly claim that Prince and RJ copied them. RJ and PRNC copied pulled from the very source that the BK's bit off of.
fadarrell 1 year ago
@fadarrell Wow homie you have taken this way too serious. lol You do know that Rick James if he were still alive would be the exact same age as James Alexander being both were born in 1948. I don't see how Rick would be any less younger than the BarKays. Just to clue you in, Rick James started out playing in some banjo band called the Mynah Birds with Neil Young before he even thought about playing funk so it's not preposterous to think that he wasn't watching the BarKays after his stint in jail
raygu1818 1 year ago
Bar Kays' Too Hot to Stop 1977.....Earth Wind and Fire's Shinning Star 1975 base line add libs and horns very similar......listen to both you tell me.
fadarrell 1 year ago
Holy Ghost , although it went harder than a mug was a ripp off of the Ohio Players' sound especislly the drums at the end....
fadarrell 1 year ago
Running In And Out Of My Life.....every hit song that DeBarge put out.....lol.
fadarrell 1 year ago
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@fadarrell "Running In And Out Of My Life.....every hit song that DeBarge put out.....lol."
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Sorry, but "Running In and Out of My Life" was on the 1979 album "Injoy." DeBarge didn't even make its first album until 1982 and did not enjoy its first hit song until "I Like It" came out in early 1983.
CaptainMike1968 7 months ago
Son of Shaft .....well.....if you can't guess that one your dumb....
fadarrell 1 year ago
Your Place or Mine was their copy of Erotic City by the Purple One....more to come as I think of them.
fadarrell 1 year ago
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@fadarrell "Your Place or Mine was their copy of Erotic City by the Purple One....more to come as I think of them."
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You must be talking about that version of the song that appeared on "The best of The Bar-Kays Vol. 2," because the original version didn't remotely sound like Prince's "Erotic City." In fact, the version on that compilation was not the original version on the album "Bangin' the Walls," the single version or the 12" version (which was the album version).
CaptainMike1968 7 months ago
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@fadarrell "Your Place or Mine was their copy of Erotic City by the Purple One."
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As I said earlier, that version of "Your Place or Mine" that was on 1996's "The Best of The Bar-Kays Vol. 2" which was never released previously sounded like "Erotic City." But if I had to say "Your Place or Mine" followed The Bar-Kays' penchant of being inspired by other songs, the original verison reminded me of Tina Turner's "Better Be Good to Me."
CaptainMike1968 7 months ago
Whoo Lawd, those TCB perms are FRESHLY DONE in these show clips, like they went straight from the salon chair directly to the stage LOL!
stylecollective 1 year ago
TV One forget you for not posting full episodes
Dablkwid0w2008 1 year ago
the bar kays were really one of the first new wave acts too. although, and i remember reading about this MTV didnt play Freakshow on the dance floor, which was made specifically to be played on the chanell. which was very new wavish, along with Dead giveaway - Shalamar. I dont think the race barrier they had was broken at the time
Mixxersmix 1 year ago
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MsMerising 1 year ago
Man, the 70s and 80s were PARTY decades. SEriously. I've heard stories from my dad partying all the time during the 80s. All night long. I guess they had the money to do all of that. Me on the other hand isn't the party type. I'm the type to go by the rules. Might be boring, but I love it.
visionimagify 1 year ago
LMAO at stonesee and fadarrell. Correct me if i'm wrong but weren't the Barkays
dressing and punking out at Wattstax about 8 years before Prince and Rick James even hit the scene or were my eyes playing tricks on me. Of course Allen Jones and the BarKays always kept their sound updated by listening to the top 10 but they always punked those songs out with their style. Cameo were influenced by the BarKays as well. Look at Cameo's Slide which samples Larry Dodson's voice on Let's Have Some Fun.
raygu1818 1 year ago
@raygu1818 Yeah they were there but I was speaking to the delusion that RJ and the Purple One COIED THEM.....They were there and at that time COPYING Parliement/Funkadelic and Isacc Hayes.....Son of Shaft was thier head liner song at that time come on man. Stop the BS......The Bar-Kays did put their mark on the industry but AFTER the plain crash they became only followers of the times...just like this documentary states. Whatever was hot at the time they tried to capitalize on.
fadarrell 1 year ago
@raygu1818 AND WHEN ITS ALL SAID AND DONE....JAMES BROWN STARTED IT, SLY AND THE FAMILY AND PARLIAMENT/FUNKADELIC PICKED IT UP AND PASSED IT, EARTH WIND AND FIRE TOOK IT TO THE OUTER LIMITS.....RJ, AND PRINCE ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FUNK AND THEY BOTH DID THE DAMN THING. THE BAR-KAYS......ARE HOMEBOYS THAT HAD THEIR TIME IN THE SUN BUT DIDN'T MAKE THE SAME IMPACT AS THE TWO I JUST MENTIONED BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T CREATE ANY STYLE THEY JUST COPIED OTHERS.....great musicians though.
fadarrell 1 year ago
@fadarrell Prince was great but Prince was funk lite. Don't believe me visit prince.org and holla at
the true funkateers and click on forums then Music:Non Prince. When you talk about hard ass funk
that would be cats like Cameo, Barkays, Zapp, Pfunk and Rick James. Prince was cool and all but
any lil funk edge he had was lost after 1999 because he wanted to become a pop star. For the record
everyone was influenced by someone else. Check Chocolate Milk. Some of their songs are BarKays
inspired.
raygu1818 1 year ago
@raygu1818 I agree that Prince was Funk Lite but the fact remains that the Bar Kays were not considered ground breakers in the funk movement they were followers not leaders.....Prince is more Rock than Funk but please don't get it twisted Prince would still Funk BETTER than the Bar Kays.
fadarrell 1 year ago
@raygu1818 Slyde by Cameo was ACTUALLY a remake of Slave's Slide with a sampling of a Bar Kays song Shake your Rump to the Funk....all this means is that they used a NEW technology as a tool to create an effect on a REMAKE......they did not copy the BAR KAYS sound like the BKs did when they tried to make an instant hit by copying the sound and feel of someone else's hit song......
fadarrell 1 year ago
The absurdity of the barkays insinuating that Rick or prince stole from them is delusional and laughable at best. The barkays were never innovators but followers, case in point their song freaky behavior amongst many other ripoffs was in the vain of superfreak.
stonesee1965 1 year ago
@stonesee1965
Look at the movie Wattstax which came out in 1972 long before Prince and Rick James made it into the spotlight. Nevertheless all three were great acts in their own right, with their own unique sound
OLDGROOVE 1 year ago
@stonesee1965 you should look up the interview with gerald levert. gerald's dad said that rick would go to the o jays show and ask eddie how he would sining a song. the bar kays where out long before rick james ever became a super freak
mjjcng8958 1 year ago
this is just delusional grandure on the barkays' part. Everytime Prince or Rick James came out with a style or grove the Barkays would try to copy it.....it wasthe other way around....they were taking pictures of Rick James and Prince at the concerts.......hell they copied anything that they thought would create record sales for them.....it was ALWAYS AFTER SOMEONE ELSE MADE IT FASHIONABLE that the Barkays would attempt the same stuff....I went to highschool with one of them.
fadarrell 1 year ago
@fadarrell AAAHHH....you and Stonesee1965 KNOW YOUR FUNK! It's interesting how the Bar-Kays copycat tendencies never seemed to come up in this documentary. They were so BLATANT it was ridiculous. And the sad thing is that these guys were TOP-NOTCH musicians who were awesome without having to copy someone else. "Holy Ghost" was easily their peak. The sad part is when I heard it, I had no idea it was them...because I was always used to them sounding like SOMEONE ELSE!!
Odawg96 1 year ago
check out the "BarKays part one on Beale street". here on youtube.com
buddyjb5 1 year ago
this is one funky band
myfunkyway9 1 year ago
yep u r correct..... I've heard people say he bar kays would rip other artists off.
they took it to a diffrent level
buddyjb5 1 year ago
"Don Kirshner's Rock Concert" was the show back then. You saw so many different acts on the same show. You'd see David Bowie, followed by Stevie Wonder, then maybe Areosmith, Ray Charles, etc. They don't make shows like that anymore. If you managed to stay up to 1 AM, you saw and heard great music.
lepoetress 1 year ago
I LOOOOOVED this show!!! Man, the Barkays were funky as hell!!! Larry was the ultimate showman. After hearing them say Rick took pictures of Larry, that let me know Rick knew real talent when he saw it. I hope the youngsters took notes; there'll be a quiz later LOL!!!
lepoetress 1 year ago
@lepoetress this group was a little of everybody EWFire, Gap Band Con funk shun...
buddyjb5 1 year ago
@buddyjb5
So true. Who is the guy with the goregeous long hair? I always LOVED his hair. He looks like he is playing bass, but I'm not sure. If that was not a perm, he had some Native American or something in his bloodline. Kind of remids me of Nick Ashford, who is STILL rockin' that long hair!
lepoetress 1 year ago
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buddyjb5 1 year ago
@buddyjb5
I didn't know which one he was, but I was SOOOO in love with his hair; it was just so beautiful. Man, you got to experience REAL music upclose and personal. Man, they would've had a fit if they tried something and found out you were 14. He did carry himself in a sexy way. Larry had it going on!!
lepoetress 1 year ago
@buddyjb5 ALL them groups were a little bit of Maurice White and unseen Charles Stepney's vision .Barkays had shine and Confunkshun had Loveshine and the Gapband had open up your mind....uplifting lyrics like that mirrored what EWF's music was most about in the seventies.Maurice White was known for years around the southern gospel circuit which hatched a lot of these former Preacher kids(most of em were) turned Funk band freakazoids.
somerzeze 1 year ago
@somerzeze
This was when music was GOOD!!! I loved the positive messages they had. Now, it's all about "... gettin' mine/mines", "I'm on the grind" and all that mess. Who is Charles Stepney? That names seems so familiar, but I can't place him.
lepoetress 1 year ago
@lepoetress
Charles Stepney worked with Earth Wind and Fire.
necey902 1 year ago
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@lepoetress
Charles Stepney worked with Earth Wind and Fire.
necey902 1 year ago
THEY are so right . That glam punk funk sissy sexy style frontman did not start with Rick James who Prince Absorbed from [it started began with larry] . THESE SHOW STEALING [yes they did and layed many a band in their wake....Parliament got buried by them and the BAR KAYS opened for them] Their concerts were priority and they never dissapointed. and that late 1978drummer....OH-MY-LORD!!!!
somerzeze 1 year ago
@somerzeze the drummer? he has nice arms..... it was some cuties in the group
buddyjb5 1 year ago
@somerzeze
I never got to go to concerts, but I heard if you put down good money, BKs, EW&F, Frankie Beverly, etc. gave you your money's worth and then some. They say you got quality, which I hear is lacking in concerts these days.
lepoetress 1 year ago
@lepoetress Tickets would be about 13.00 to 17.00 for peanut heaven seats..and that did not matter because the bottom rows had no seats.Party was on the floor and them bands delivered. Though three to sometimes five on a ticket...man!! The Bar-Kays would take the show regardless . THE jam session improv set these back in the day bands apart .They were groomed in Gospel rythms,jazz ,bebop,blues and most of them played jimi hendrick's signature style of the blues.
somerzeze 1 year ago
@somerzeze
I bet people wished tickets were that low now. Back then, you got your money's worth, be it record or concert and you didn't have all that nonsense. They wanted to get paid and keep the fans, so they made sure you had a good time, told your friends and come back to the next show and buy the next record.
lepoetress 1 year ago
@lepoetress I would have died w/o the summers budwesier fest. I was all up & into everything.. I got a few photos of behind the stage. sisters & aunt gave them to me. Hubbies didnt like the photos around.... wink wink! Hard to believe Larry is so heavy now? Rick had a gut too! Michael Cooper is huge too.. lol its not any groups to chase now. these young guys are rapist thugs no talent or class. they r not preacher kids. Larry remind me of a black mick jagger... when I look back on
buddyjb5 1 year ago
@buddyjb5
LOL!!!! I bet you had a ball!!! They shouldn't hate; be honored to be with a celebrity magnet LOL!!! I can't believe so many of them got so big. I feel you on groups today. Not too many of them have the class or style the old schoolers. The "Black Mick Jagger" ..... I co-sign that LOL!!!
lepoetress 1 year ago
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buddyjb5 1 year ago
@buddyjb5
I would love too read that book!!! LOL!!! I feel you on that; if they have trouble with you talking about it, just imagine would would be in the book!!! I'm amazed they were so on point with all that going on. True dat on some of the "artists" of today.
lepoetress 1 year ago
I use to have the biggest crush on Larry Dobson. Lloyd was fine too! These are some bad bruthas!
djntt69 1 year ago
@djntt69 he was a sexy, singing somethin' wasnt he?
buddyjb5 1 year ago
Where's lead guitarist Vernon Burch? That dude was a monster on that "axe"!
lordbenjahmin1 1 year ago 2
No doubt about it. The Bar-Kays inspired the bizarre musical genius of Rick James and Prince, But what I luv about it is that both artist took the style and made it into their own. Similar to MJ and his idol JB. But Larry Dodson was one son of a bad mutha(shut yo mouth) lol. Luv that guy. Great to see him alive and enjoying the legacy he left behind.
soulmusic247 1 year ago
Wow! Thanks for posting this video, this bring back so many memories of some good party music :)
TheCreativeJournal 1 year ago