why are the prostester only foreigner that pretty weird, they never know nothing about our history and our culture, and also dalai lama got more than 100 award for being a good people and he got nobel peace prize and what about the two retarded nun who know nothing about us talking about ourrrrr culture, long livvvvvvvvvvve dalia lama
The Dalai Lama no longer practices Dorje Shugden and has asked HIS FOLLOWERS to do the same. It's pretty simple really.Pitting one teacher against the other shows a horrible misunderstanding not only of Buddhist practice in general but of Vajrayana practice and the Guru relationship. If my teacher told me to stop my practice tomorrow, I'd simply do it.I wouldn't be asking my teacher to sit down and debate it with me.
@SangyeChoga Hum, if you do that, then you are not an intellect being but a bloke who has blind faith. If your teacher will ask to kill, jump off a cliff or rape, will you not debate like a sound, sane human or carry ti out like a robot????????????
@MusceledVikram I would ask him to explain why if it felt off to me. Once the question has been answered it has been answered and it's my choice to follow him as my teacher or decide he is not a true teacher. The point is he is or is not my teacher and for him to be my teacher I have to have complete faith in him. How else will he destroy my ego? I definately would not spend my time screaming and moaning and trying to force my Teacher to act like he is MY student. Don't transfer the oxes load.
@SangyeChoga And why the hell you need a teacher? And teachers are not super beings or God's who can destroy ego! Learning from experience is far better than learning from a book( as far as spirituality is concerned). We discover who we are by ourselves, rather follow anyone else's philosophy!!
@MusceledVikram I respect your perspective but here is where the lack of understanding of the Vajrayana lies. ULTIMATELY it is my own experience that I learn from,it's not actually possible to learn from anything else. However, you must chose the Guru that is your embodiment of complete enlightenment. So be careful making your choice.No one MUST practice the Vajrayana but for it to work one need to purify thier view, not correct the teacher. That's just the necessary relationship for it to work
Shugden groups all over the vorld are allies with China.
China provides political and financial support to Shugden worshippers in Tibet, India, Nepal and across the world. The Shugden society in Delhi has been collaborating with China since 1999. Shugden activists were behind the triple murder in Dharamsala 1997. Two Gelug monks and one Gelug lama were brutally slaughtered. The two main suspects fled to China´s Tibet. They have Chinese protection now.
yellow head ppl act like they know everything abt tibet & buddhisme..hahahhaha as a matter of fact they don't know anything... they have to know the fact that nuns are virgin and i'm 100000% sure tht those nuns aren't virgin since their 13th..slut...low life..they shud really get a new hobby
This deity, Dorje Shugden is the same nature as Je Tsongkhapa they are the same person performing different functions. Many Dorje Shugden sadhanas state that Dorje Shugden is the embodiment of the Guru, Yidam, and Protector, where Guru refers specifically to Lama Tsongkhapa.
So, do we keep guru samaya by following DL's instructions? Do we break guru samaya by keeping our vows to DS?
It's over 6 years since I left the NKT and still find it hard to understand what happened and is happening to myself and so many others. I have to be honest though, I do also wonder where are some of the teachers now like Samden, Lodro, Thogme? I've read various posts on here but do they ever post on here as survivors themselves?
Practices such as protesting and posting anti- Dalai Lama messages is not the result of the ban. It is the direct result of Shugden practice itself. This practice promises great wealth but fails to mention the direct cost of the wealth which is becoming consumed by the activity of the deity which is to destroy the teachings. Shugden practice is black magic, hence why it has been banned from Tibetan Buddhism. Om Ah Hung Benzar Guru Pema Siddhi Hung
@dharmarabbit i disagree with this - there are many very inspiring examples of DS practitioners and lamas who have been instrumental in bringing dharma to thousands of others around the world, and done extensive charitable works to relieve the sufferings of others.
There r many beautiful biographies of these lamas on dorjeshugden - dot - com which show that there is only dharma in their hearts. Where in any of their teachings is there evidence of black magic and destruction of teachings?
Have People forgot what the CCP have doned to the falun dafa adepts. Wake up people CCP is the agent of all this problem with dorje shudgen.They are putting oil on fire manipulating the tibetain people. Im sure those letters come from CCP thugs.
This made video made me laugh because so many unhappy individuals leave from their traditional faith and becomes so called nuns and telling the Dalai Lama a liar. This is a good example of Western people's ignorance.
@juliegyatso "western people's ignorance" I understand when you apply ignorance to the people in the video but to assign that ignorance to ALL WESTERNERS, aside from being basely racist it's a pretty small minded view. I truly mean this with the best of intentions. I'm a westerner and a practicing Buddhist for 20 years. True I have ignorance but none more than the rest of us posting here. My ignorance is not a result of being Western but a result of Samsara. RespectfulIy I think we share that.
How about the fact that every one is suffering.. and we should look at how Buddhism teaches us to alleviate that suffering instead of bashing each other up and creating more suffering. Let's live in harmony - respect our differences.
Isn't it ironic that in trying to defend their faith, people have become so political and even cruel to each other - where is the kindness in all this? both dalai lama and dorje shugden promote kindness and harmony - but followers are acting totally opposite! It gives a bad face to Buddhism everywhere.
I really hope that people will not judge Buddhism by how this controversy is panning out. There are good and bad practitioners of every religion out there - and the bad ones do not reflect well on their faith. The trouble is people tend not to distinguish between the different types of people. Let's pray for more wisdom and compassion for all!
@KacheMarp0 I would recommend everyone to check out a website like dorjeshugden (dot ) com which provides many good resources and, more importantly A BALANCED VIEW that allows people to come to their own conclusions.
I like the way that website speaks about practice, lineage and Dorje Shugden as a protector - rather than to focus so much on the politics. it'S good to see that some people remember the essence of DS which is to PRACTICE DHARMA and not get stuck in politics alone
NKT/WSS made a (shabby) cottage industry of "Dissing the Dalai for Dollars."
That's the NKT/WSS's entire persona, worldwide. It's in fact the only thing they're known for to the general public--because that's what they WANTED to be known for (minus of course the Dollars part).
We realize you receive a new directive to suddenly flood the internet with pro-Dalai wrapping, which underneath, still contains the same old hate.
Isn't it enough that the Tibetans suffers from being refugees in other country? Now the group doing Shugden practice is further ostracised. What a difficult life!
DS is completely represented by WSS. No one talked about DS in the west until WSS did.
NKT is WSS, from conception through today.
This new attempt to portray NKT as suddenly Dalai Lama-friendly comes too late, unfortunately.
If NKT has had a change of policy and heart, it will have to spend as many years (or more) counteracting its original propaganda as it did generating it.
Good news - today, on the 51st Anniversary of the Tibetan National Uprising Day! HH Dalai Lama said:
"It is important that Tibetans maintain friendly relations not only with people of all nationalities, but also amongst themselves. Tibetans should not engage in petty disputes with each other. I earnestly appeal to them instead to resolve any differences with patience and understanding." I sincerely hope that message includes to those who practise Dorje Shugden.
Back in the 1970 and 1980 teachers like Ajahn Sumedho and Thich Nhat Hanh gave teachings and retreats in Manjushri ,
Manjushri Centre was glad to take there money because they needed it at the time. Gash-la put a stop to this because he did not want the pure dharma of JeTsonghapa to be mix with other Buddhist teachings,
But by 2010 it is ok to mix the pure dharma of Je Tsonkhapa with business?
Kelsang tells his followers he believes Buddhism in Tibet is dead because of the Chinese occupation AND that it has already died in India!!! If he is right, then only by him (the third Buddha) or NKT there is a future of Tibetan Buddhism! So this so-called Anti-China stance is in reality a propaganda mean of the organisation/Geshe-la to bind people to the group. Trick failed
There seems to be many controversy in NKT. But nevertheless, there are some who benefitted, there are some who claimed to be damaged from the whole "cult" experience and hence are bitter.
So, our focus is not really to talk about that, right?
"Tibetan Buddhism is being systematically flushed out in Tibet by the government of China. As Tibetan Buddhism scatters...around the globe, HH the Dalai Lama is struggling to maintain some cohesion and integrity within it. The Shugden controversy clearly is weakening that effort."
I think this might be true, that the cohesion of Tibetan Buddhism might be lost in terms of politics/ control because they are scattered, but it doesn't affect the essense of the teachings nor lineage.
Dalai Lama's "control" of Tibetan Buddhism as the Spiritual Head might diminish and there's speculation that the new Tibetan Spiritual Head will be the Karmapa.
It will be interesting to see how things turn out.
The Dalai Lama has never controlled Tibetan Buddhism. He does not seek to now.
The only voices claiming HHDL "controls" Tibetan Buddhism are those voices coming from Chinese government offices.
HHDL is not even the head of his own sect.
These distinctions are lost on Chinese government workers, who attempt to poison the atmosphere but betray their true lack of interest in the issues daily.
By the way, many accounts have been hacked in Youtube and started posting pro- Panchen Lama posting.
And when that happens, the posts, they are either in Chinese/ English language posts that supports the Panchen Lama. I've observed this because some pro-Shugden people on the forum are suddenly supporting Panchen Lama as well (they will never do that!)
I'm stating a possibility. Everyone can see that China is grooming him to be a spiritual leader in China.
So there is a possibility that he could teach Buddhism to China & the global Chinese. He delivered a speech at the opening ceremony of the Second World Buddhist Forum in Wuxi City of eastern Jiangsu Province, winning applause and appreciation in March 2009. So there is a high possibility.
PROOF "pathseeker9" is more than one person - she said this:
"@Varavaken Just to play with the idea a bit, what if the China sanctioned Panchen Lama, the "Chinese puppet" can promote Tibetan Buddhism to the Chinese BETTER than any Tibetan masters or the Dalai Lama himself, so should we PROMOTE him then?"
Obviously a fluent English speaker, referring to Chinese as "they."
He doesn't need to be a REAL Panchen Lama, he only needs to be ACCEPTED by the Chinese, which he is now.
I do respect you for sharing your opinion & I think u are a good sport. U should chat on forum about Shugden so that more people can benefit / learn as you do have good points to share.
Debate is a method to study Buddhism & is being practised in Tibetan Monastic universities. Of course my silly banter/ chat here is not the same as their intellectual discussion.
In fact, there's a video here on Youtube showing monks debating on this ban issue.
Earlier you said that nobody can comment on the situation in China/Tibet.
But obviously, Shugden people can comment on the situation in the exile community. Very illogical.
No, the Shugden monks can not fraternise with the monks at Ganden. They can no longer try to push their practice on the other monks. And that is good. You don´t know what happened in these monasteries, that´s obvious.
@Varavaken Just to play with the idea a bit, what if the China sanctioned Panchen Lama, the "Chinese puppet" can promote Tibetan Buddhism to the Chinese BETTER than any Tibetan masters or the Dalai Lama himself, so should we PROMOTE him then?
He doesn't need to be a REAL Panchen Lama, he only needs to be ACCEPTED by the Chinese, which he is now.
Panchen Lama will never have any religous authority among the Tibetans. How could he? His main teacher is The Chinese Communist Party. He is the son of two state security agents.
Karmapa was well taken care of by China. But he wanted higher religious education. That´s why he left.
@Varavaken Accept the fact that Panchen Lama may not have authority among the Tibetans, but he can lead the CHINESE and GLOBAL BUDDHISTS in Tibetan Buddhism because China say so.
That is the reality of TIBETAN BUDDHISM in the near future when China rules.
The Chinese government-backed Panchen Lama has joined a group of leading citizens that advises the nations legislature, part of an effort to raise his public profile.
Gyaincain Norbu, installed as the high-ranking Tibetan Buddhist cleric as a child in 1995 and now 20 years old, has been playing a more prominent public role as a religious leader and supporter of Communist Party rule in recent years, after previously staying out of the spotlight.
The young monk was named to the National Committee of the Chinese Peoples Political Consultative Conference on Sunday, according to the official Xinhua news agency. The group consists of more than 2,200 people, including well-known academics, television personalities, entrepreneurs and government officials who advise the National Peoples Congress.
The CPPCC will meet Wednesday, followed by the annual meeting of the Peoples Congress, which starts Friday in Beijing.
Tibetan Buddhism might be dying in Tibet, but it;s thriving else where in the world and will continue to grow, e.g in the USA, in Europe , in Hong Kong, in Taiwan.
It is flourishing. More non-Tibetan people have been exposed and learn about Tibetan Buddhism.
Of course these people know very little of Tibetan Buddhism or Buddhism in general. Isn't that WHO Buddhists want to help ? Then these people will be curious and want to learn more about TIbetan Buddhism and eventually lead to real Dharma path.
For those who are easily "seduced" so what? At least they plant the seed of Dharma. And for the smart ones, they will read & find out and choose what they want - even if it means the Shugden camp.
You can have your opinion. I am not going to say anything.
A fully enlightened Buddha like Shakyamuni can also have negative criticism, I am not surprised people have negative things to say about Shugden.
But, if Dalai Lama's guru, and his Guru's gurus and many high lamas & tulkus who have practised & rely on Dorje Shugden strongly can come back again and again to benefit & teach, I don't know why you think Shugden is not a good introduction.
How much do you know about Shugden? Have you received teachings on Shugden? Do you know his sadhana? Do you know what are the "offerings" that will make Shugden happy?
How do you judge? Based on WSS's protests? Based on some defamation of some angry/ bitter "practitioners"?
Of course he can't because he was not taught. China has huge financial & human resources, they can start their own "TIbetan Buddhism", don't you think?
They can hire scholars to teach the Panchen if they wish to.
Also, they are building their own institutions in China as we speak. They don't have to hire Tibetans monks/ nuns, they can hire Western monks/ nuns or even just scholars who have studied Buddhism well.
I personally do not agree with these protests, but the fact is that Dorje Shugden has brought Dalai lama out of Tibet & Dalai lama has made Tibetan Buddhism all over the world, just like the ancient prophecies of Padma Sambhava, also known as Guru Rinpoche, who brought Buddhism from India to Tibet.
He prophesied in the 8th Century AD that the Buddhist teachings and knowledge of enlightenment would go to the West when iron birds fly and horses have wheels.
Religion should not be promoted. If it´s too strongly promoted it may have the opposite effect. You feel aversion. Especially if it´s extremely simplyfied or even distorted.
I think you want to mean "wrongly promoted" or promoted with the wrong method.
Your own experience may not mean everyone will have the same experience as you. Many people can see though the distortion through study & learning more. Those who couldn't, they might not be REALLY interested in religion anyway.
I do not need to convince the world that WSS was not tied to the CCP. I don't know because I am not from WSS.
By the way, I do not agree with the WSS with some of their methods of protests, but you have to give them some respect for standing up for their rights.
I don't support the fake Panchen. I'm just saying he has the potential to teach Buddhism to China and perhaps the global Chinese.
Don't be silly, how can I expose for all the world to see that WSS= CCP.
With respect, these videos bit(dot)ly/airwDK will show that there is a ban. Yes Shugden monks have their own monasteries but they are not allowed to fraternise with the monks at Gaden.. their friends.. sad.
hey dharmaknight I like your train of thought. I read somewhere a comment by someone that said that instead of focusing on the anti-DS practitioners, we should look at what positive, beautiful information we can share with the world instead ABOUT DS, his practice, benefits and and many erudite, incredible teachers who uphold his practice. Share Dharma, because that is what DS teaches us all the time.
Dalai lama wants a democratic system for Tibetans.
Yet what democratic leader would say that a certain group may not join his public talks due to their religious orientation?
Imagine if Obama said all jews cannot attend his public talks because they don't accept Christ? That could never happen.
So If Dalai lama wishes to emulate G-7 democratic leadership, he has to stop ostracizing anyone even if they practice Dorje Shugden. Ghost or not..simple.
Be open minded and see further. Humanitarians will get hung up with what they see, ie.people cannot travel, children not allowed to go to school etc. I do believe your testimonials and findings and it is sad. But focusing our energy to educate people on dharma and making dharma related materials available will be more beneficial.
Wake up and smell the protector incense billowing from all over the world! And this practice will only increase in time. And look around, who is the biggest "promoter" of Dorje Shugden? It is HH himself who has created so much "talk." Look at the result and not just the method. Is HH really against DS? I doubt it.
I don't think anyone can comment on the situation in China or Tibet because we are not there - whether the conditions are good or bad.. or whether people are escaping over the HImalayas.. who knows. But it's very distressing to see people being so hostile over a religion. All religion is for peace.. isn't that what Buddhism is about? So pro or anti-shugden - just respect each other and not criticise each other. There's never any justification to be nasty.
Would everyone just relax. The Dalai Lama simply requested that everyone stop worshipping this entity because it was trying to divide the Tibetan Buddhists. That's all.
Spiritual leaders are dangerous, especially when they impose their beliefs. They may not seem so, but within a community that have individuals that would follow them like sheep they'll gain the proper power that would make them no different then a dictator. Especially within the Tibetan government, which is religiously motivated. Plus, religion is a search for personal* spiritual enlightenment, and it shouldn't need organizations, creeds, and leaders to uphold it.
Amnesty said it was out of its remit, not that there were not abuses. Do your homework. Dorje Shugden has been relied upon for 400 years by a Wisdom Buddha, even by the Dalai Lama's own teachers!! The Dalai Lama is using his political power to destroy a religious practice.
Further to my point below: This video is in response to the Olympic Torch Protesters who were attacked by nutty Chinese nationalists. Now why would Shugden cult members want to enter into that debate? Because their agenda is primarily political, to malign the image of Tibet and the Dalai Lama, to weaken his appeal in western democracies. These Shugden Cult Members are not subtle are they!!
i think u can be against the chinese occupation of Tibet and at the same time see the evil of past theocracy of the lamas in Tibet. it's not either/or situation.
There was no evil theocracy of lamas in tibet. Tibet was a backward society, un-democratic and unjust, that is accepted though the Chinese government is hell bent on portraying the theocratic dominant social structure as a feudal hell to justify its invasion, occupation and destructive paternalistic modernity. The society was imperfect, like many if not all 20th century nations. Tibet though was harmonious by in large & our probs. were ours to solve not the CCPS.
i've seen it, if youre relying on 2 magicians/comedians to explain one of the worlds most complicated geo-political issues then you are very poorly informed. I am not believing anyones 'propaganda', i am well researched and as a tibetan who has lived in exile communities i am experienced. fyi the indian version of the FBI (CBI) is hunting 2 shugden members on murder chargers. Shugden 'monks' beat my partners mother & father so badly they were sent o/s for protection. PM me & I will send u info.
"if you are relying on 2 magicians/comedians to explain etc."
how sad that most of the western world and hollywood is in love with Dalai lama and hoodwinked into believing that he is a *holy man* for us to rely on a couple of "magician/comedians" to tell us the truth. Yes, littlebighrn, belittling the messenger does NOT lessen the facts.
theocracy is evil -- human nature wont'let it be anything other than evil.
I believe that all religious sects can be dangerous and commit cruel acts.
just because dalai lama's sect was evil and cruel, it doesn't mean that the other sects that dalai lama oppressed did NOT commit cruel acts. i very well believe that these other monks most likely beat up your parents.
that is why i am against all religion, rahter than dalai lama
however, dalai lama, since he was the most powerful lama, had more occasion/power to cause the GREATER evil inTibet.
In the late 1990s the Dalai Lama appeared in an advertisement for Apple Computers in its Think Different campaign. Explicitly his action is telling us to develop desirous attachment for a computer. This is such an obvious violation of Buddhas teachings. Implicitly it shows that it is acceptable for ordained people to prostitute themselves for the sake of consumerism and for the sake of samsara. In 1992 he appeared as a guest editor for the French Vogue fashion magazine.
Although we wish for happiness our ignorance leads us to engage in nonvirtuous action, like accusing the Dalai Lama of being a Liar and Hypocrite, denouncing him at all costs. Such Wrong Speech and actions are the main cause of all our suffering. Also, if we do not cultivate and maintain a good heart our selfish motivation destroys harmony and good relationships with others. We have no inner peace. As you can see at our protests. This is a true Kadampa Truth.
Not non-virtuous but virtuous. Why? Because it is the truth motivated by a wish to stop him casing suffering to thousands.
A hypocrite is a person who says one thing and then does the opposite. The DL preaches religious freedom and harmony to westerners but in his own back-yard denies basic religious freedom to thousands of his own people. Therefore, he being "two-faced" of hypocritical. It is not negative to point this out with the wish that he change for the better.
What is the truth? What is THE truth, what is YOUR truth. Clinging on Truths as the truths invited fundamentalism.
The fact is that the majority of Buddhist masters see Shugden as harmful and negative influence. It is their right to ask those having trust to them to stop this worship. Also the monasteries have the right to make rules which forbid harmful practices. This is not "persecution".
Truth is majority follow DL's view blindly. They repeat it like mantras and don't investigate. Bigger picture? FACT: DL institution was appointed by the Mongols. FACT:5th Dalai destroyed Kagyu and Nyinma monasteries with the help of the Mongols. NO DS INVOLVEMENT. FACT:There was rivalry between 5th and Karmapa who went into exile for 20years. FACT:5th had rivalry with Drakpa Gyalsten who was assassinated. FACT:This is nothing but a power struggle with DS as a target&scapegoat.DL distorts/sad.
you may follow Kelsang blindly, I don't follow Dalai Lama blindly. I use common sense and know the history of Tibet and Shugden to be able to judge what is what. It is you who repeats the claim followers of HHDL would be blind like a mantra. Followers of NKT are blind, this is no mantra but a fact.
When HHDL speaks against Shugden, a spirit used to assassinate practitioners who study texts also from other Buddhist school, he is actual defending religious freedom. This is no double face or hypocrisy. WSS/NKT use these terms to justify their war against the Dalai Lama. AI has stated there is no persecution. If you wish to be taken honest. Ask AI to check, and don't abuse misleading words to justify libel against HHDL.
What is going on here? All this time, I've been reading the Dalai Lama's books and trying to "be like him." How do we know what to believe? I'll start with the links in the video notes, but this is just terrible. Thanks for posting.
in a free country... where there is respect for human rights....in the center of Manhattan....tibetans showed their true colors....what must they be doing to the innocent shugden practitioners in Nepal and India.....?????just imagine for a second???
This present Dalai lama has no compassion...he is a big HYPOCRITE....HE PREACHES COMPASSION AND LOVE....but his actions are just the opposite. what is he gaining from ostracizing a section of his own people. Shugden practitioners are also TIBETANS.
Of course you will never hear the west protesting against Theocracy, until Tibet become independent, and the U.S. government has military access to occupy Tibet for themselves to install... what they call in Iraq.
A Democratic Puppet.
The United States, and people who support the Independence of Tibet, wants to divide Asia. This is the U.S. first step against China.
1) I knew these protesters follower of Kalsang Gyaltso who is great liar and real hypocrite, he called him self as a Geshe but reality he hasn't graduated and gain title Geshe. He looks humble but every monks from Sera know about him as a hypocrite, lair and robber as well. Now a days he has relation with CCP government.
2)Monks from Sera abandon relation with him many years ago because of big liar and robber of Buddhist centre from FPMT Lama yeshi's centre in England. since he stop to put image of H.H.Dalai lama and not allowed to read H.H. Dalai lama books,lot of students stop to go his centre, actually so called his centre he robbed from FPMT Lama yeshi's centre.
Really its their problem they can't geve up Buddha's advise and Shugden practice, both are contradictory. Buddha himself gave advise, buddhist Practitioner don't refuge and practice on worldly god or Shugen it Diminish our buddhist vows.H.H.Dalai Lama gave same advise that if you are really buddhist Practitioner don't refuge on worldly god or Shugden, and also if you don't want to listen my advise its upto you, you can do what ever practice you like, every body have religions freedom.
hi please keep cleaning those crap and blind DHOGYAL PRACTIONERS WHO ARE PAID TO PROTEST AGAIST DALAI LAMA.WE TIBETANS IN TIBET ABANDON THOSE LITTLE NUMBERS OF PRACTIONERS AS GHOSTS AND NOW THEY ARE CHANGING! keeep writing your comments!
Such a distateful remark. You have no evidence that Shugden protestors received anything from China. If you do have evidence then please show it - otherwise please be quiet and stop spreading lies.
Such a distateful remark. You have no evidence that Shugden protestors received anything from China. If you do have evidence then please show it - otherwise please be quiet and stop spreading lies.
The Chinese governement actively encourages Shugden in Tibet via their Panchen Lama. They parade their chosen candidate with a giant Thanka of Shugden behind him. Coincidentally as the protests started in Tibet prior to the Beijing games the Shugden movement gains the means to send a group of protesters around the world in an attempt to malign the Dalai Lama. Beijing must have been delighted by such a happy coincidence.
PS. Common thread through all posters of pro-shugden on youtube...support for Chinese occupation of Tibet. They invariably claim on the one hand to be standing up for Tibetan refugees in India yet at the same time defend the Chinese occupation that drove them from their homes and killed 1.2 million of their country men. I think that tells you alot about the motivations of Shugden Cult Members. Dont forget the indian FBI has 2 shugden members wanted for assassination of a senior Tibetan academic.
Any serious and creditable book about the history of Tibetan Buddhism can tell you that religious persecution and genocide of other sects of Tibetan Buddhism led by the sect Dalai Lama represented has never stopped. Today, it's Dorje Shugden.
Tibet has had many Lamas from many sects of Tibetan Buddhism. The DL has been the most powerful came at the price of blood and loss of human lives of other sects of Tibetan Buddhism. The DL is fundamentally a brutal political and religious dictator.
why are the prostester only foreigner that pretty weird, they never know nothing about our history and our culture, and also dalai lama got more than 100 award for being a good people and he got nobel peace prize and what about the two retarded nun who know nothing about us talking about ourrrrr culture, long livvvvvvvvvvve dalia lama
tenzin7197 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Fuck this bullshit.
KrazyNinjaPanda 3 months ago
DALAI LAMA MUST DIE !!!
MrMauwsa 6 months ago
Fuck u!
u must die because u got a bloody hand killing tibetans in tibet
MrLungsang 1 week ago
it is because of our great leader dalai lama that there is no terrorism in china
if somthing happened to him then china will be a dead place
okay?
MrLungsang 1 week ago
@DaedraAzura
If you´re interested in this conflict - study it.
I don´t know if it was a Chinese Government plot. I´m just glad they failed.
Varavaken 8 months ago
The Dalai Lama no longer practices Dorje Shugden and has asked HIS FOLLOWERS to do the same. It's pretty simple really.Pitting one teacher against the other shows a horrible misunderstanding not only of Buddhist practice in general but of Vajrayana practice and the Guru relationship. If my teacher told me to stop my practice tomorrow, I'd simply do it.I wouldn't be asking my teacher to sit down and debate it with me.
SangyeChoga 11 months ago
@SangyeChoga Hum, if you do that, then you are not an intellect being but a bloke who has blind faith. If your teacher will ask to kill, jump off a cliff or rape, will you not debate like a sound, sane human or carry ti out like a robot????????????
MusceledVikram 6 months ago
@MusceledVikram I would ask him to explain why if it felt off to me. Once the question has been answered it has been answered and it's my choice to follow him as my teacher or decide he is not a true teacher. The point is he is or is not my teacher and for him to be my teacher I have to have complete faith in him. How else will he destroy my ego? I definately would not spend my time screaming and moaning and trying to force my Teacher to act like he is MY student. Don't transfer the oxes load.
SangyeChoga 6 months ago
@SangyeChoga And why the hell you need a teacher? And teachers are not super beings or God's who can destroy ego! Learning from experience is far better than learning from a book( as far as spirituality is concerned). We discover who we are by ourselves, rather follow anyone else's philosophy!!
MusceledVikram 6 months ago
@MusceledVikram I respect your perspective but here is where the lack of understanding of the Vajrayana lies. ULTIMATELY it is my own experience that I learn from,it's not actually possible to learn from anything else. However, you must chose the Guru that is your embodiment of complete enlightenment. So be careful making your choice.No one MUST practice the Vajrayana but for it to work one need to purify thier view, not correct the teacher. That's just the necessary relationship for it to work
SangyeChoga 6 months ago
Shugden people from China attempted to assasinate the Dalai Lama four years ago (2006) during his 30th Kalachacra initiation.
Varavaken 1 year ago
Shugden groups all over the vorld are allies with China.
China provides political and financial support to Shugden worshippers in Tibet, India, Nepal and across the world. The Shugden society in Delhi has been collaborating with China since 1999. Shugden activists were behind the triple murder in Dharamsala 1997. Two Gelug monks and one Gelug lama were brutally slaughtered. The two main suspects fled to China´s Tibet. They have Chinese protection now.
Don´t join NKT.
Varavaken 1 year ago
monks ? Protesting ? disgusting !
wuhwuh 1 year ago
haha/...
it's damn funny
yellow head ppl act like they know everything abt tibet & buddhisme..hahahhaha as a matter of fact they don't know anything... they have to know the fact that nuns are virgin and i'm 100000% sure tht those nuns aren't virgin since their 13th..slut...low life..they shud really get a new hobby
nevagonachange 1 year ago
Where did this nun get the money to show up in this location? She does not seem to be Tibetan.
rickbangkok 1 year ago
This deity, Dorje Shugden is the same nature as Je Tsongkhapa they are the same person performing different functions. Many Dorje Shugden sadhanas state that Dorje Shugden is the embodiment of the Guru, Yidam, and Protector, where Guru refers specifically to Lama Tsongkhapa.
So, do we keep guru samaya by following DL's instructions? Do we break guru samaya by keeping our vows to DS?
TheDharmaKnight 1 year ago
It's over 6 years since I left the NKT and still find it hard to understand what happened and is happening to myself and so many others. I have to be honest though, I do also wonder where are some of the teachers now like Samden, Lodro, Thogme? I've read various posts on here but do they ever post on here as survivors themselves?
NKTsurvivors 1 year ago
Practices such as protesting and posting anti- Dalai Lama messages is not the result of the ban. It is the direct result of Shugden practice itself. This practice promises great wealth but fails to mention the direct cost of the wealth which is becoming consumed by the activity of the deity which is to destroy the teachings. Shugden practice is black magic, hence why it has been banned from Tibetan Buddhism. Om Ah Hung Benzar Guru Pema Siddhi Hung
dharmarabbit 1 year ago 2
dharmarabbit, very well put.
cIoserelative 1 year ago
@dharmarabbit i disagree with this - there are many very inspiring examples of DS practitioners and lamas who have been instrumental in bringing dharma to thousands of others around the world, and done extensive charitable works to relieve the sufferings of others.
There r many beautiful biographies of these lamas on dorjeshugden - dot - com which show that there is only dharma in their hearts. Where in any of their teachings is there evidence of black magic and destruction of teachings?
TheRedNiece 1 year ago
Have People forgot what the CCP have doned to the falun dafa adepts. Wake up people CCP is the agent of all this problem with dorje shudgen.They are putting oil on fire manipulating the tibetain people. Im sure those letters come from CCP thugs.
cpvu1991 1 year ago
This made video made me laugh because so many unhappy individuals leave from their traditional faith and becomes so called nuns and telling the Dalai Lama a liar. This is a good example of Western people's ignorance.
juliegyatso 1 year ago
@juliegyatso "western people's ignorance" I understand when you apply ignorance to the people in the video but to assign that ignorance to ALL WESTERNERS, aside from being basely racist it's a pretty small minded view. I truly mean this with the best of intentions. I'm a westerner and a practicing Buddhist for 20 years. True I have ignorance but none more than the rest of us posting here. My ignorance is not a result of being Western but a result of Samsara. RespectfulIy I think we share that.
SangyeChoga 6 months ago
How about the fact that every one is suffering.. and we should look at how Buddhism teaches us to alleviate that suffering instead of bashing each other up and creating more suffering. Let's live in harmony - respect our differences.
KacheMarp0 1 year ago
@KacheMarp0 hear hear! Good on you.
Isn't it ironic that in trying to defend their faith, people have become so political and even cruel to each other - where is the kindness in all this? both dalai lama and dorje shugden promote kindness and harmony - but followers are acting totally opposite! It gives a bad face to Buddhism everywhere.
TheRedNiece 1 year ago
I really hope that people will not judge Buddhism by how this controversy is panning out. There are good and bad practitioners of every religion out there - and the bad ones do not reflect well on their faith. The trouble is people tend not to distinguish between the different types of people. Let's pray for more wisdom and compassion for all!
wisdombeing 1 year ago
@KacheMarp0 I would recommend everyone to check out a website like dorjeshugden (dot ) com which provides many good resources and, more importantly A BALANCED VIEW that allows people to come to their own conclusions.
I like the way that website speaks about practice, lineage and Dorje Shugden as a protector - rather than to focus so much on the politics. it'S good to see that some people remember the essence of DS which is to PRACTICE DHARMA and not get stuck in politics alone
TheRedNiece 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
KacheMarpBeing,
Don't even try.
NKT/WSS made a (shabby) cottage industry of "Dissing the Dalai for Dollars."
That's the NKT/WSS's entire persona, worldwide. It's in fact the only thing they're known for to the general public--because that's what they WANTED to be known for (minus of course the Dollars part).
We realize you receive a new directive to suddenly flood the internet with pro-Dalai wrapping, which underneath, still contains the same old hate.
Again, don't try. Or try harder.
vinayahoIder 1 year ago
Isn't it enough that the Tibetans suffers from being refugees in other country? Now the group doing Shugden practice is further ostracised. What a difficult life!
pathseeker9 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
DS is completely represented by WSS. No one talked about DS in the west until WSS did.
NKT is WSS, from conception through today.
This new attempt to portray NKT as suddenly Dalai Lama-friendly comes too late, unfortunately.
If NKT has had a change of policy and heart, it will have to spend as many years (or more) counteracting its original propaganda as it did generating it.
DiamondGirI1971 1 year ago
Good news - today, on the 51st Anniversary of the Tibetan National Uprising Day! HH Dalai Lama said:
"It is important that Tibetans maintain friendly relations not only with people of all nationalities, but also amongst themselves. Tibetans should not engage in petty disputes with each other. I earnestly appeal to them instead to resolve any differences with patience and understanding." I sincerely hope that message includes to those who practise Dorje Shugden.
KacheMarp0 1 year ago
@KacheMarp0
Yes, it is quite weird that this conflict has causes "in-fighting" among Tibetans.
How can a friendly relations arise if there is no dialogue with the party requesting for religious freedom to practice?
I wonder how this amicable relationship can be achieved...
pathseeker9 1 year ago
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So Manjushri has a Business Venue?
Back in the 1970 and 1980 teachers like Ajahn Sumedho and Thich Nhat Hanh gave teachings and retreats in Manjushri ,
Manjushri Centre was glad to take there money because they needed it at the time. Gash-la put a stop to this because he did not want the pure dharma of JeTsonghapa to be mix with other Buddhist teachings,
But by 2010 it is ok to mix the pure dharma of Je Tsonkhapa with business?
Laugh, I could cry.
lmNotCCP 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Kelsang tells his followers he believes Buddhism in Tibet is dead because of the Chinese occupation AND that it has already died in India!!! If he is right, then only by him (the third Buddha) or NKT there is a future of Tibetan Buddhism! So this so-called Anti-China stance is in reality a propaganda mean of the organisation/Geshe-la to bind people to the group. Trick failed
Maohamet 1 year ago
Btw this "nun's" brother owns the architectural firm that Gyatso hires to do all the "centres", lol. Pretty good incentive to diss HHDL.
Maohamet 1 year ago
@Maohamet
There seems to be many controversy in NKT. But nevertheless, there are some who benefitted, there are some who claimed to be damaged from the whole "cult" experience and hence are bitter.
So, our focus is not really to talk about that, right?
By the way, I am not pro-WSS anyway.
pathseeker9 1 year ago
I´ll quote again:
"Tibetan Buddhism is being systematically flushed out in Tibet by the government of China. As Tibetan Buddhism scatters...around the globe, HH the Dalai Lama is struggling to maintain some cohesion and integrity within it. The Shugden controversy clearly is weakening that effort."
(the zen-lady, B. O´Brien)
Varavaken 1 year ago
@Varavaken
I think this might be true, that the cohesion of Tibetan Buddhism might be lost in terms of politics/ control because they are scattered, but it doesn't affect the essense of the teachings nor lineage.
Dalai Lama's "control" of Tibetan Buddhism as the Spiritual Head might diminish and there's speculation that the new Tibetan Spiritual Head will be the Karmapa.
It will be interesting to see how things turn out.
pathseeker9 1 year ago
The Dalai Lama has never controlled Tibetan Buddhism. He does not seek to now.
The only voices claiming HHDL "controls" Tibetan Buddhism are those voices coming from Chinese government offices.
HHDL is not even the head of his own sect.
These distinctions are lost on Chinese government workers, who attempt to poison the atmosphere but betray their true lack of interest in the issues daily.
Maohamet 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Maohamet - Is this your post or you've been hacked too?
Maohamet (2 days ago)
@pathseeker9
sorry but we Chinese don't believe in Tibetan lamas.
pathseeker9 1 year ago
When pathseeker9 is being remote-controlled by the English woman, she uses fluent, chirpy English with Brit spelling and lots of capitals.
When pathseeker9 is being robotted by the Chinese man, it becomes dour, pro-Xinhua, and glaringly "officialese."
Maohamet 1 year ago
@Maohamet
By the way, many accounts have been hacked in Youtube and started posting pro- Panchen Lama posting.
And when that happens, the posts, they are either in Chinese/ English language posts that supports the Panchen Lama. I've observed this because some pro-Shugden people on the forum are suddenly supporting Panchen Lama as well (they will never do that!)
pathseeker9 1 year ago
pathseeker,
nice try, but I know who's real and who's not. There are REAL January 11'ers supporting the fake Panchen Lama.
Here, I'll go find you some quotes :) First mistake was using Xinhua as a reference, lol, no discipline.
Maohamet 1 year ago
@Maohamet
Really? From the posts that I read they don't seemed to support nor anti.
I don't know. Let them speak for themselves.
pathseeker9 1 year ago
lmao you say you're not pro-Gyancain, and then you quote his virtues from Xinhua.
tmd 五毛党
Maohamet 1 year ago
@Maohamet
I'm stating a possibility. Everyone can see that China is grooming him to be a spiritual leader in China.
So there is a possibility that he could teach Buddhism to China & the global Chinese. He delivered a speech at the opening ceremony of the Second World Buddhist Forum in Wuxi City of eastern Jiangsu Province, winning applause and appreciation in March 2009. So there is a high possibility.
pathseeker9 1 year ago
Omg pathseeker/RedNiece/Zamzam/blabla, no one even goes to his teachings, lol.
If you go to Tibet, they have pictures of the REAL Panchen Lama.
Gyancain will never be influential. He hasn't received a genuine education, and he talks about politics too much.
Maohamet 1 year ago
@Maohamet
May be he talks it the way the Chinese likes to hear it and could teach the Chinese some Dharma?
You will never know...
pathseeker9 1 year ago
Why do Chinese need a half-Tibetan boy to teach them Dharma? All he talks about is politics anyway.
Poor boy - he's a puppet. He will rebel someday, like others before him. Hopefully he can go to India and get higher teachings.
Maohamet 1 year ago
Comment removed
pathseeker9 1 year ago
yeah but...
i didn't join Jan 11 like the rest of the wumaodang pretenders.
Maohamet 1 year ago
@Maohamet
Chill, it was meant to be a joke!
pathseeker9 1 year ago
六十年没有见过选票
没有全民教育
没有医疗保险
没有新闻开放
没有言论自由....
Maohamet 1 year ago
@Maohamet
I am so sorry to hear about that. It's quite sad that many people have suffered. It's true.
But if you are a Buddhist, you need to reflect on this and accept it no matter how bitter.
It's the same as the Shugden practitioners who have suffered mental & physical torment & torture.
I wish you peace. But doesn't mean I will not debate you on Youtube!
pathseeker9 1 year ago
Accepting suffering is important.
Working to keep people from causing suffering is also important.
Pretending to support someone, while actively working against them, is harmful.
WSS/NKT is characterized by what they are AGAINST, not what they are for.
CCP should never have made it such a big issue - huge mistake.
Maohamet 1 year ago
@Maohamet
I agree with your point re - Pretending to support someone, while actively working against them, is harmful.
Perhaps WSS should change their image of anti-Dalai Lama to pro-Shugden. It might be better if it's the real cause they're fighting for.
pathseeker9 1 year ago
the new CCP strategy is "stop badmouthing the Dalai."
But it's kinda too late, just like Carrefour.
Ieedhi 1 year ago
btw it's time to human flesh search that wack gwailou chick
Ieedhi 1 year ago
没有信息自由
没有迁居自由
没有司法独立
没有舆论监督
没有独立工会
没有国家的军队....
Maohamet 1 year ago
没有宪法保护
剩下的只是草泥马.
Maohamet 1 year ago
@Maohamet
We shall wait and see what happens. I don't have any 'stand' on this.
My only stand is that peace & happiness & Dharma grows.
pathseeker9 1 year ago
Even a puppet lama eventually gets tired of the puppetmaster.
Maohamet 1 year ago
"winning applause"..?? Do you really believe yourself?
Only the kind of "applause" the party pays for. Sad.
Maohamet 1 year ago
Comment removed
pathseeker9 1 year ago
What's wrong with being pro-Gyancain????
Are you against him???
Maohamet 1 year ago
@Maohamet
I'm not pro-Gyancain nor anti-Gyancain.
Why? Do I get any benefit for being pro-Gyancain?
pathseeker9 1 year ago
But now all of a sudden, pathseeker9 is a native Chinese speaker, with a different command (and spelling) of English.
Maohamet 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
PROOF "pathseeker9" is more than one person - she said this:
"@Varavaken Just to play with the idea a bit, what if the China sanctioned Panchen Lama, the "Chinese puppet" can promote Tibetan Buddhism to the Chinese BETTER than any Tibetan masters or the Dalai Lama himself, so should we PROMOTE him then?"
Obviously a fluent English speaker, referring to Chinese as "they."
He doesn't need to be a REAL Panchen Lama, he only needs to be ACCEPTED by the Chinese, which he is now.
Maohamet 1 year ago
@Varavaken
I do respect you for sharing your opinion & I think u are a good sport. U should chat on forum about Shugden so that more people can benefit / learn as you do have good points to share.
Debate is a method to study Buddhism & is being practised in Tibetan Monastic universities. Of course my silly banter/ chat here is not the same as their intellectual discussion.
In fact, there's a video here on Youtube showing monks debating on this ban issue.
pathseeker9 1 year ago
pathseeker9
I am an outsider.
But I think Tibetan Buddhism will survive.
Varavaken 1 year ago
Tusen takk, Varvaken.
Maohamet 1 year ago
@Maohamet
雍正十二年，雍正帝正式封章嘉·若白多杰为灌顶普惠广慈大国师，颁发诏书，赐给八十两黄金铸的印、册等。
章嘉国师向乾隆帝传授了《胜乐》灌顶，乾隆帝跪受灌顶，并向章嘉国师奉献了以一百两重的金质曼札为主的各种供养品。
pathseeker9 1 year ago
@Maohamet
You don't have to believe in Tibetan Lamas.
If your government decided it's good for you, then you should listen to your government.
And in the past, the Chinese emperors like Qianlong believed in Tibetan Lamas too.
So, when you say " we Chinese", who are you refering to?
pathseeker9 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
hey you tibetans, tibet has been a part of China since the 1300's. You were tricked by the west, they lied to you, wake up and smell the jasmine.
Maohamet 1 year ago
wisdombeing
Earlier you said that nobody can comment on the situation in China/Tibet.
But obviously, Shugden people can comment on the situation in the exile community. Very illogical.
No, the Shugden monks can not fraternise with the monks at Ganden. They can no longer try to push their practice on the other monks. And that is good. You don´t know what happened in these monasteries, that´s obvious.
Varavaken 1 year ago
wisdombeing
How does this "ban" in the monasteries affect you if I may ask?
Why do you interfere ?
Why do you promote the China sanctioned Panchen Lama? You know he is a Chinese puppet.
Varavaken 1 year ago
@Varavaken Just to play with the idea a bit, what if the China sanctioned Panchen Lama, the "Chinese puppet" can promote Tibetan Buddhism to the Chinese BETTER than any Tibetan masters or the Dalai Lama himself, so should we PROMOTE him then?
He doesn't need to be a REAL Panchen Lama, he only needs to be ACCEPTED by the Chinese, which he is now.
pathseeker9 1 year ago
pathseeker9
Panchen Lama will never have any religous authority among the Tibetans. How could he? His main teacher is The Chinese Communist Party. He is the son of two state security agents.
Karmapa was well taken care of by China. But he wanted higher religious education. That´s why he left.
Varavaken 1 year ago
@Varavaken Accept the fact that Panchen Lama may not have authority among the Tibetans, but he can lead the CHINESE and GLOBAL BUDDHISTS in Tibetan Buddhism because China say so.
That is the reality of TIBETAN BUDDHISM in the near future when China rules.
pathseeker9 1 year ago
Comment removed
Varavaken 1 year ago
pathseeker9
This is unacceptable
Varavaken 1 year ago
@Varavaken
Karmapa was well taken care of by China? What do you mean by that?
Are you saying the Chinese government is doing a good job taking care of a Tibetan spiritual leader?
pathseeker9 1 year ago
pathseeker9
"Well taken care of", I was referring to material things. Only.
Varavaken 1 year ago
pathseeker9
"Well taken care of"... I was referring to material things. Only.
Varavaken 1 year ago
@pathseeker9
sorry but we Chinese don't believe in Tibetan lamas.
Maohamet 1 year ago
@Maohamet
ARE YOU SURE??
The Chinese government-backed Panchen Lama has joined a group of leading citizens that advises the nations legislature, part of an effort to raise his public profile.
Gyaincain Norbu, installed as the high-ranking Tibetan Buddhist cleric as a child in 1995 and now 20 years old, has been playing a more prominent public role as a religious leader and supporter of Communist Party rule in recent years, after previously staying out of the spotlight.
pathseeker9 1 year ago
@Maohamet
The young monk was named to the National Committee of the Chinese Peoples Political Consultative Conference on Sunday, according to the official Xinhua news agency. The group consists of more than 2,200 people, including well-known academics, television personalities, entrepreneurs and government officials who advise the National Peoples Congress.
The CPPCC will meet Wednesday, followed by the annual meeting of the Peoples Congress, which starts Friday in Beijing.
pathseeker9 1 year ago
Comment removed
pathseeker9 1 year ago
pathseeker9
The Panchen-substitute can not teach or promote Tibetan Buddhism. He doesn´t have a proper religious education.
He´s not a Tibetan Buddhist He´s with the Buddhist Association of China. B.A.C. is against Tibetan Buddhism.
The Tibetan monasteries are almost empty now. Buddhist teachers, monks and nuns are sent to prison.
The religion is dying, not flourishing.
Varavaken 1 year ago
@Varavaken
Tibetan Buddhism might be dying in Tibet, but it;s thriving else where in the world and will continue to grow, e.g in the USA, in Europe , in Hong Kong, in Taiwan.
It is flourishing. More non-Tibetan people have been exposed and learn about Tibetan Buddhism.
pathseeker9 1 year ago
pathseeker9
Yes, more and more non-Tibetan people have been exposed to Shugdenism.
And these people know very little of Tibetan Buddhism, or Buddhism in general.
Easily "seduced".
Varavaken 1 year ago
@Varavaken
They are not JUST exposed to Shugdenism. They heard about a controversy and guess what?
They heard about the Dalai Lama! And they can get books about Dalai Lama everywhere.
By the way, the ratio of Dalai Lama' books vs Shugden books? You guess and let me know?
pathseeker9 1 year ago
@Varavaken "
Of course these people know very little of Tibetan Buddhism or Buddhism in general. Isn't that WHO Buddhists want to help ? Then these people will be curious and want to learn more about TIbetan Buddhism and eventually lead to real Dharma path.
For those who are easily "seduced" so what? At least they plant the seed of Dharma. And for the smart ones, they will read & find out and choose what they want - even if it means the Shugden camp.
pathseeker9 1 year ago
pathseeker9
I don´t think Shugden is a good introduction to Buddhism.
Varavaken 1 year ago
@Varavaken
You can have your opinion. I am not going to say anything.
A fully enlightened Buddha like Shakyamuni can also have negative criticism, I am not surprised people have negative things to say about Shugden.
But, if Dalai Lama's guru, and his Guru's gurus and many high lamas & tulkus who have practised & rely on Dorje Shugden strongly can come back again and again to benefit & teach, I don't know why you think Shugden is not a good introduction.
pathseeker9 1 year ago
How much do you know about Shugden? Have you received teachings on Shugden? Do you know his sadhana? Do you know what are the "offerings" that will make Shugden happy?
How do you judge? Based on WSS's protests? Based on some defamation of some angry/ bitter "practitioners"?
pathseeker9 1 year ago
Pathseeker9, until a few days ago, you (and all your Jan 11 identities) spoke fluent English and claimed to be an "English schoolteacher."
Now you speak fluent Chinese :)
You guys are blowing your cover, right before the sensitive date.
No discipline.
Maohamet 1 year ago
I never claim to be an English schoolteacher.
pathseeker9 1 year ago
pathseeker9
You really make me confused.
Who are you...
Varavaken 1 year ago
Then you "just happened" to join the same day as the person who claimed to be an English schoolteacher?
It sounds to me like an office full of people - some Chinese, maybe one or two English "nuns" hired by the CCP to pose as WSS.
Maohamet 1 year ago
@Maohamet
Interesting stories you make up, perhaps you should consider writing fiction?
pathseeker9 1 year ago
pathseeker9
Change of tone...
I´m glad I´m an outsider.
Varavaken 1 year ago
ence, you are basing your observation on WSS & whatever "political events" that happens right?
So there's no need to talk about the real issue in the controversy - whether one is allowed to practice, correct?
pathseeker9 1 year ago
tmd wu mao dang.
Maohamet 1 year ago
you see pathseeker9, you folks did not prepare adequately.
You all joined the same day - first mistake.
Then you post in Chinese, while the English person you hired goes on and on in chipper, "isn't life beautiful" tones.
You should have stuck to one! And you should never have posted in Chinese. Too late tho.
Maohamet 1 year ago
pathseeker9
You sometimes sound like floatinghippos... .
Varavaken 1 year ago
Ni gör ett fantastiskt jobb. Jag vet att det är svårt att debattera på ett annat språk. Tack, min vän.
Maohamet 1 year ago
@Maohamet
Varför lägger ni på svenska?
pathseeker9 1 year ago
為什麼不...
Maohamet 1 year ago
lol
proof the WSS gang = the CCP gang.
Pathseeker now posts in Chinese :)
Oops!
Maohamet 1 year ago
@Varavaken
Of course he can't because he was not taught. China has huge financial & human resources, they can start their own "TIbetan Buddhism", don't you think?
They can hire scholars to teach the Panchen if they wish to.
Also, they are building their own institutions in China as we speak. They don't have to hire Tibetans monks/ nuns, they can hire Western monks/ nuns or even just scholars who have studied Buddhism well.
pathseeker9 1 year ago
@Varavaken
I personally do not agree with these protests, but the fact is that Dorje Shugden has brought Dalai lama out of Tibet & Dalai lama has made Tibetan Buddhism all over the world, just like the ancient prophecies of Padma Sambhava, also known as Guru Rinpoche, who brought Buddhism from India to Tibet.
He prophesied in the 8th Century AD that the Buddhist teachings and knowledge of enlightenment would go to the West when iron birds fly and horses have wheels.
pathseeker9 1 year ago
"At a time when Buddhism is still being introduced to the west, it is damaging to all schools of Buddhism to be confused with spiritworship."
(Barbara O´´brien)
Varavaken 1 year ago
@Varavaken
Dear friend,
I quote Guru Rinpoche, a prominent figure responsibile for Tibetan Buddhism, and you quote Barbara O Brien, who is a student of Zen Buddhism ?
pathseeker9 1 year ago
pathseeker9
What is spreading?
Buddhism?
Dharma?
Varavaken 1 year ago
@Varavaken EXPOSURE about Dalai Lama, Dorje Shugden, Buddhism, Tibetan Buddhism.
From there, people will be interested to find out more. The outcome of it, only time can tell.
pathseeker9 1 year ago
pathseeker9
There are many religions.
We are exposed to many things.
Religion should not be promoted. If it´s too strongly promoted it may have the opposite effect. You feel aversion. Especially if it´s extremely simplyfied or even distorted.
Varavaken 1 year ago
@Varavaken
I think you want to mean "wrongly promoted" or promoted with the wrong method.
Your own experience may not mean everyone will have the same experience as you. Many people can see though the distortion through study & learning more. Those who couldn't, they might not be REALLY interested in religion anyway.
pathseeker9 1 year ago
Also, how can you be so obvious as to support the fake Panchen?
If you really wanted to convince the world WSS was not tied to the CCP, you would have done your homework.
Now, you are exposed for all the world to see: WSS=CCP.
Maohamet 1 year ago
@Maohamet
I do not need to convince the world that WSS was not tied to the CCP. I don't know because I am not from WSS.
By the way, I do not agree with the WSS with some of their methods of protests, but you have to give them some respect for standing up for their rights.
I don't support the fake Panchen. I'm just saying he has the potential to teach Buddhism to China and perhaps the global Chinese.
Don't be silly, how can I expose for all the world to see that WSS= CCP.
pathseeker9 1 year ago
pathseeker9
I´m not writing in my own language.
And I´m tired of you.
Varavaken 1 year ago
imnotafraid23
Anyone can listen to the Dalai Lama´s public talks.
But he can not give Tantric initiations to those who practice D.S.
That is all.
D.S. is not prohibited.
Shugden monks have their own monasteries. Anyone can practice privately.
China´s Falun Gong ban was a REAL ban.
STOP SPREADING LIES.
Varavaken 1 year ago
With respect, these videos bit(dot)ly/airwDK will show that there is a ban. Yes Shugden monks have their own monasteries but they are not allowed to fraternise with the monks at Gaden.. their friends.. sad.
wisdombeing 1 year ago
hey dharmaknight I like your train of thought. I read somewhere a comment by someone that said that instead of focusing on the anti-DS practitioners, we should look at what positive, beautiful information we can share with the world instead ABOUT DS, his practice, benefits and and many erudite, incredible teachers who uphold his practice. Share Dharma, because that is what DS teaches us all the time.
dharmadolly 1 year ago
Dalai lama wants a democratic system for Tibetans.
Yet what democratic leader would say that a certain group may not join his public talks due to their religious orientation?
Imagine if Obama said all jews cannot attend his public talks because they don't accept Christ? That could never happen.
So If Dalai lama wishes to emulate G-7 democratic leadership, he has to stop ostracizing anyone even if they practice Dorje Shugden. Ghost or not..simple.
Democracy for all!
imnotafraid23 1 year ago
If you want more accurate information, go to ABCDIR´s channel. Look at "Selbstkorrektur des SF1 zu seiner umstrittenen Serie Bruderzwist..."
Varavaken 1 year ago
Be open minded and see further. Humanitarians will get hung up with what they see, ie.people cannot travel, children not allowed to go to school etc. I do believe your testimonials and findings and it is sad. But focusing our energy to educate people on dharma and making dharma related materials available will be more beneficial.
TheDharmaKnight 2 years ago
Wake up and smell the protector incense billowing from all over the world! And this practice will only increase in time. And look around, who is the biggest "promoter" of Dorje Shugden? It is HH himself who has created so much "talk." Look at the result and not just the method. Is HH really against DS? I doubt it.
TheDharmaKnight 2 years ago
I don't think anyone can comment on the situation in China or Tibet because we are not there - whether the conditions are good or bad.. or whether people are escaping over the HImalayas.. who knows. But it's very distressing to see people being so hostile over a religion. All religion is for peace.. isn't that what Buddhism is about? So pro or anti-shugden - just respect each other and not criticise each other. There's never any justification to be nasty.
wisdombeing 2 years ago 2
wisdombeing
If you are interested in the situation in China/Tibet there are plenty of good documentaries. I recommend "Leaving Fear Behind".
Varavaken 1 year ago
Shugden monks are free to set up their own monasteries, and they already have
(Shar Gaden Monastery and Sera Pomra Monastery.)
Varavaken 2 years ago
Would everyone just relax. The Dalai Lama simply requested that everyone stop worshipping this entity because it was trying to divide the Tibetan Buddhists. That's all.
PatsyYoga 2 years ago 3
In a free world you can worship what you want dud!
alantjost 2 years ago
What's the big deal with Dorje Shugden, just let go of it, it's a man made, man invented ritual/deity anyway. Why hold on to it?
redtortoise76 2 years ago
who cares? i dont even care if you would praise tooth fairy
alivet0day 2 years ago
free Guam！！
snkfw000 2 years ago
FREE Dorje Shugden
CreativeMotion09 2 years ago
Spiritual leaders are dangerous, especially when they impose their beliefs. They may not seem so, but within a community that have individuals that would follow them like sheep they'll gain the proper power that would make them no different then a dictator. Especially within the Tibetan government, which is religiously motivated. Plus, religion is a search for personal* spiritual enlightenment, and it shouldn't need organizations, creeds, and leaders to uphold it.
shoulderkolibri 2 years ago
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EndOfTimesApocalypse 2 years ago
Amnesty said it was out of its remit, not that there were not abuses. Do your homework. Dorje Shugden has been relied upon for 400 years by a Wisdom Buddha, even by the Dalai Lama's own teachers!! The Dalai Lama is using his political power to destroy a religious practice.
Wisdomswords 2 years ago
Further to my point below: This video is in response to the Olympic Torch Protesters who were attacked by nutty Chinese nationalists. Now why would Shugden cult members want to enter into that debate? Because their agenda is primarily political, to malign the image of Tibet and the Dalai Lama, to weaken his appeal in western democracies. These Shugden Cult Members are not subtle are they!!
lttlebighrn 3 years ago
i think u can be against the chinese occupation of Tibet and at the same time see the evil of past theocracy of the lamas in Tibet. it's not either/or situation.
earthypig 3 years ago
There was no evil theocracy of lamas in tibet. Tibet was a backward society, un-democratic and unjust, that is accepted though the Chinese government is hell bent on portraying the theocratic dominant social structure as a feudal hell to justify its invasion, occupation and destructive paternalistic modernity. The society was imperfect, like many if not all 20th century nations. Tibet though was harmonious by in large & our probs. were ours to solve not the CCPS.
lttlebighrn 2 years ago
it's not all chinese propaganda
you are buying into a different propaganda if u don't believe in what happened.
btw, i'm TOTALLY AGAINST chinese occuptation of tibet as well.
but THE ENEMY OF MY ENEMY IS NOT MY FRIEND.
watch PENN AND TELLERS "BULLSHIT" SERIES entitled HOLIER THAN THOU
earthypig 2 years ago
i've seen it, if youre relying on 2 magicians/comedians to explain one of the worlds most complicated geo-political issues then you are very poorly informed. I am not believing anyones 'propaganda', i am well researched and as a tibetan who has lived in exile communities i am experienced. fyi the indian version of the FBI (CBI) is hunting 2 shugden members on murder chargers. Shugden 'monks' beat my partners mother & father so badly they were sent o/s for protection. PM me & I will send u info.
lttlebighrn 2 years ago
"if you are relying on 2 magicians/comedians to explain etc."
how sad that most of the western world and hollywood is in love with Dalai lama and hoodwinked into believing that he is a *holy man* for us to rely on a couple of "magician/comedians" to tell us the truth. Yes, littlebighrn, belittling the messenger does NOT lessen the facts.
theocracy is evil -- human nature wont'let it be anything other than evil.
earthypig 2 years ago
I believe that all religious sects can be dangerous and commit cruel acts.
just because dalai lama's sect was evil and cruel, it doesn't mean that the other sects that dalai lama oppressed did NOT commit cruel acts. i very well believe that these other monks most likely beat up your parents.
that is why i am against all religion, rahter than dalai lama
however, dalai lama, since he was the most powerful lama, had more occasion/power to cause the GREATER evil inTibet.
earthypig 2 years ago
stop those fucking tibetan selling crack cocain in new york plz
thinkinrich 3 years ago
In the late 1990s the Dalai Lama appeared in an advertisement for Apple Computers in its Think Different campaign. Explicitly his action is telling us to develop desirous attachment for a computer. This is such an obvious violation of Buddhas teachings. Implicitly it shows that it is acceptable for ordained people to prostitute themselves for the sake of consumerism and for the sake of samsara. In 1992 he appeared as a guest editor for the French Vogue fashion magazine.
Not suitable....
gyalchen7 3 years ago
Although we wish for happiness our ignorance leads us to engage in nonvirtuous action, like accusing the Dalai Lama of being a Liar and Hypocrite, denouncing him at all costs. Such Wrong Speech and actions are the main cause of all our suffering. Also, if we do not cultivate and maintain a good heart our selfish motivation destroys harmony and good relationships with others. We have no inner peace. As you can see at our protests. This is a true Kadampa Truth.
ABCDIR 3 years ago
Not non-virtuous but virtuous. Why? Because it is the truth motivated by a wish to stop him casing suffering to thousands.
A hypocrite is a person who says one thing and then does the opposite. The DL preaches religious freedom and harmony to westerners but in his own back-yard denies basic religious freedom to thousands of his own people. Therefore, he being "two-faced" of hypocritical. It is not negative to point this out with the wish that he change for the better.
21perusal 3 years ago
What is the truth? What is THE truth, what is YOUR truth. Clinging on Truths as the truths invited fundamentalism.
The fact is that the majority of Buddhist masters see Shugden as harmful and negative influence. It is their right to ask those having trust to them to stop this worship. Also the monasteries have the right to make rules which forbid harmful practices. This is not "persecution".
ABCDIR 3 years ago
Truth is majority follow DL's view blindly. They repeat it like mantras and don't investigate. Bigger picture? FACT: DL institution was appointed by the Mongols. FACT:5th Dalai destroyed Kagyu and Nyinma monasteries with the help of the Mongols. NO DS INVOLVEMENT. FACT:There was rivalry between 5th and Karmapa who went into exile for 20years. FACT:5th had rivalry with Drakpa Gyalsten who was assassinated. FACT:This is nothing but a power struggle with DS as a target&scapegoat.DL distorts/sad.
upkarma 3 years ago
you may follow Kelsang blindly, I don't follow Dalai Lama blindly. I use common sense and know the history of Tibet and Shugden to be able to judge what is what. It is you who repeats the claim followers of HHDL would be blind like a mantra. Followers of NKT are blind, this is no mantra but a fact.
ABCDIR 3 years ago
When HHDL speaks against Shugden, a spirit used to assassinate practitioners who study texts also from other Buddhist school, he is actual defending religious freedom. This is no double face or hypocrisy. WSS/NKT use these terms to justify their war against the Dalai Lama. AI has stated there is no persecution. If you wish to be taken honest. Ask AI to check, and don't abuse misleading words to justify libel against HHDL.
ABCDIR 3 years ago
What is going on here? All this time, I've been reading the Dalai Lama's books and trying to "be like him." How do we know what to believe? I'll start with the links in the video notes, but this is just terrible. Thanks for posting.
catherinetodd 3 years ago
..and thanks to you catherine,, r.
robertodedomenico 3 years ago
robertodedomenico wrote: "..and thanks to you catherine,, r."
Robert, thanks for what?
catherinetodd 3 years ago
in a free country... where there is respect for human rights....in the center of Manhattan....tibetans showed their true colors....what must they be doing to the innocent shugden practitioners in Nepal and India.....?????just imagine for a second???
This present Dalai lama has no compassion...he is a big HYPOCRITE....HE PREACHES COMPASSION AND LOVE....but his actions are just the opposite. what is he gaining from ostracizing a section of his own people. Shugden practitioners are also TIBETANS.
DLkyakpachoe 3 years ago
Of course you will never hear the west protesting against Theocracy, until Tibet become independent, and the U.S. government has military access to occupy Tibet for themselves to install... what they call in Iraq.
A Democratic Puppet.
The United States, and people who support the Independence of Tibet, wants to divide Asia. This is the U.S. first step against China.
JBXyooj 3 years ago 2
indeed.. Dividing ASia esp. China makes it easier to stop China being the next world power.. Stand strong China !
RehMyz 3 years ago
1) I knew these protesters follower of Kalsang Gyaltso who is great liar and real hypocrite, he called him self as a Geshe but reality he hasn't graduated and gain title Geshe. He looks humble but every monks from Sera know about him as a hypocrite, lair and robber as well. Now a days he has relation with CCP government.
sonam21 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
2)Monks from Sera abandon relation with him many years ago because of big liar and robber of Buddhist centre from FPMT Lama yeshi's centre in England. since he stop to put image of H.H.Dalai lama and not allowed to read H.H. Dalai lama books,lot of students stop to go his centre, actually so called his centre he robbed from FPMT Lama yeshi's centre.
sonam21 3 years ago
Really its their problem they can't geve up Buddha's advise and Shugden practice, both are contradictory. Buddha himself gave advise, buddhist Practitioner don't refuge and practice on worldly god or Shugen it Diminish our buddhist vows.H.H.Dalai Lama gave same advise that if you are really buddhist Practitioner don't refuge on worldly god or Shugden, and also if you don't want to listen my advise its upto you, you can do what ever practice you like, every body have religions freedom.
sonam21 3 years ago
hi please keep cleaning those crap and blind DHOGYAL PRACTIONERS WHO ARE PAID TO PROTEST AGAIST DALAI LAMA.WE TIBETANS IN TIBET ABANDON THOSE LITTLE NUMBERS OF PRACTIONERS AS GHOSTS AND NOW THEY ARE CHANGING! keeep writing your comments!
chinaisracist 3 years ago
Such a distateful remark. You have no evidence that Shugden protestors received anything from China. If you do have evidence then please show it - otherwise please be quiet and stop spreading lies.
21perusal 3 years ago
Such a distateful remark. You have no evidence that Shugden protestors received anything from China. If you do have evidence then please show it - otherwise please be quiet and stop spreading lies.
21perusal 3 years ago
The Chinese governement actively encourages Shugden in Tibet via their Panchen Lama. They parade their chosen candidate with a giant Thanka of Shugden behind him. Coincidentally as the protests started in Tibet prior to the Beijing games the Shugden movement gains the means to send a group of protesters around the world in an attempt to malign the Dalai Lama. Beijing must have been delighted by such a happy coincidence.
lttlebighrn 3 years ago
PS. Common thread through all posters of pro-shugden on youtube...support for Chinese occupation of Tibet. They invariably claim on the one hand to be standing up for Tibetan refugees in India yet at the same time defend the Chinese occupation that drove them from their homes and killed 1.2 million of their country men. I think that tells you alot about the motivations of Shugden Cult Members. Dont forget the indian FBI has 2 shugden members wanted for assassination of a senior Tibetan academic.
lttlebighrn 3 years ago
Free Alaska!!!!
NosePickingSob 3 years ago
Any serious and creditable book about the history of Tibetan Buddhism can tell you that religious persecution and genocide of other sects of Tibetan Buddhism led by the sect Dalai Lama represented has never stopped. Today, it's Dorje Shugden.
Tibet has had many Lamas from many sects of Tibetan Buddhism. The DL has been the most powerful came at the price of blood and loss of human lives of other sects of Tibetan Buddhism. The DL is fundamentally a brutal political and religious dictator.
ForJamuqa 3 years ago