GEB was about consciousness! Through and through it was Hofstadter trying to build all but a mind: tying together what makes us human, the maths of our brain (1s and 0s), and our mind that can appreciate art and music, and can make sense of the nonsensical. Consciousness doesn't just "come up" it's the whole point!
u must read this.one u have started there is no turning back.a little 10 year old girl was raped and murderded in 1945.her body was not found until 1947.then a boy last week read this and did not copy and paste this message.the dead girl appeared in his room haunting him and killed him. if you do not copy and paste this onto 10 vidoes in 30 minutes the dead girl will appear in your room tonight and haunt you and kill you.well you better start to copy and paste to be saved not mine
You're now in possession of my new favorite book ever, my previous being GEB itself :)
It's brought me along a novel, incredible path of understanding that I can only hope will become clear to you, too. What I'm about to say, I mean with all of my heart: Enjoy.
I bought GEB:AEGB the year it came out, the year I turned 18. I would wager that I have read the book at least 20 times, and I find something new EVERY time I read it. Just watching this video I "stumbled" across has gotten me antsy to go get it off the shelf and read it again, right now. But I wanted to send you the comment first.
is the universe a strange loop? are the tiny membranes in m theory universes? is that why mass gets extremely enormous when you get down to the Plank length?
i love GEB -- one of my favorite books ever. the way meaning arises out of meaningless components is really fascinating, and the way hofstadter portrayed it was really beautiful and really heightened my appreciation for so many of the elegant things in our world.
hofstadter is quite incredible with the wordplay in his dialogue as well. i loved the crab canon and the ant fugue most particularly.
Yes I have read I am a strange loop. And I read GEB when I was 17, it is always priceless to talk to GEB readers, especially ones who fell in love with it. I wonder how you got to know about GEB when you were 16, I personally is more philosophically inclined and was introduced to it by my philosophy professor. Oh, Hofstadter is making an appearing tomorrow(today is Saturday January 19, 2008) in Philosophy Talk. Hopefully I'll be able to call up there and ask him some questions.
It's not about math. It's not about music. It's not about art. It's all about how inanimate matter can achieve consciousness. If you want some good rebuttals to Hofstadter's arguments try John Searl's Chinese room thought experiment and Roger Penrose's "The Emperors New Mind". GEB is one of the best books ever written in my opinion though, so I'm a bit biased.
Searle's Chinese room is one of the most egregiously obtuse, effortlessly refuted -and "refuted" most assuredly *is* the correct word- thought experiments in all of philosophy of mind.
Penrose, most unlike Searle, is a genuinely first-rate thinker, but his twaddle about microtubuli and supposed impossibility of of explaining the human brain's mathematical insights by any algorithmic process are only five or six orders of magnitude...
...more perceptive than Searle's Chinese room -and that's saying almost infinitessimally little.
For a *worthwhile* rebuttal of Hoftstadter's physicalist position, see David Chalmers' 'The Conscious Mind'.
I do like your screen name. What do you think of Shakespeare's eighteenth sonnet? Would you mind terribly being compared to a summer's day, or would spring perhaps do better?
@polymath7 OK, I concede, you busted me on the Searl thing. I don't think Searl's argument is very comprehensive and do not consider it a "good" rebuttal to GEB. I was mainly addressing those who seem to have read the book without knowing what it's about; Penrose and Searl are just came to mind as memorable authors on the same topic.
As far as Chalmers I had never heard of him befor now and intend to familiarize myself with his work.
And thanks, I'm glad somebody gets my screen name.
I'm reading GEB at the moment... it hasn't failed to amaze me yet... I enjoyed this video (thanks), I'll have to check out the rest of his work. Hope all is well...
I just read Strange Loop... I finished it in 7 days at a 50 pg per day pace. I didnt read G.E.B, and I dont know if I will. You said yourself, the book is "pompously clever", and that's the way I felt about strange loop. I'm moving on! I'm reading a book now called The Molecules Within Us. yes yes, molecular biology. that is where the party is at! p.s. you're cuuuuuuuuute haha
I think 'self-referential' is the phrase you're looking for at the end of the vid? It reminded me of the reader who wrote to DH at Scientific American about his parrot who he trained to say 'I don't understand anything I'm saying'! Brilliant stuff! Didn't know about the IAASL book. I must buy it. Thanks for you entertaining vid and enjoy your latest purchase
'Dishevilled appearance' - Not a bit of it. If I was as young and good looking as you I would *never* apologise for my appearance!
GEB is brilliant - I think I've been reading it for years as I keep forgetting it and having to come back. You reminded me of myself trying to explain why GEB is sooo good. It's very difficult to condence information about such a huge work.
I'm currently reading this book. I was very excited by the title and the description of it--I think it was written up in the paper, but I don't remember. Any, I-ness is a big topic for me. Not because it is about "me", but because I strongly feel that ultimately, the idea of "me" is an illusion.
You strongly remind me of my next door neighbour, you look very similar and your whole style, the way you speak/act, your voice etc. is also very, very similar. Not sure why I'm telling you this you but I think it's fascinating. You have a doppelganger.
Funny how G.E.B. fans always encounter serious difficulties when attempting to explain what the book is about:
"Um, it's difficult to describe exactly what G.E.B. is about. I mean, from the title, 'Gödel, Escher, Bach', it's about math, art, and music, and the connections between them. ... It talks about ... okay, here's what it says about itself ... So that's a pretty good description of what it is. It's ... [sigh] ... it's about math ..."
Oh well, nice try. :) And a good book, by all means.
Possibly by means of New Statesman's metaphor: "a first-class workout in the best mental gymnasium in the world". As you said, it's very clever, but cleverness has to be experienced to be understood and appreciated, and it can only be experienced when the thinker puts his or her mental muscles to some real work. Those who have the motivation and inclination to do so, will be richly rewarded in reading this book. Those who don't will not know what they're missing.
GEB is about how "i" perceive the world and how the world cannot be trusted relative to "I". Turn GEB book cover upside down and you might see a concave and convex of the cube[s] (through its lightings) similar to Escher's concave and convex artwork. How appropriately cheeky!
Nice to see that other people are as excited about Hofstadter as I am...
By the way, you should search for "Victim of the Brain" on Google Video. It's a movie that was made a while ago, closer to the when GEB was published, and it has interviews with (a younger) Douglas Hofstadter. I like how he swings in his spinny-chair during some of the interviews.
Great to see someone as excited as I am about this. I'm half way through IAASL - quicker read than GEB so far. I also recognized the friendly familiar font; he pays close attention to presentation, which he talks about in a footnote (xviii). There are no footnote superscripts in the text, you need to look for them. I love the personal touch in this book, to see his perspective from his more mature place in life, having suffered significant loss. I'm really enjoying it. I'm sure you will too.
Prepoperos, could you give us a few video updates while you're reading <i>I Am A Strange Loop</i>? I mean the book, not this self-referential sentence. Nor the one before. D'oh!
From "Metamagical Themas": <i>Although this sentence begins with "because", it it false. </i>The rest of this sentence is written in Thailand, on
<b>If π were 3, this sentence wΔuld lΔΔk like this.</b>
He wrote another one?! I'm still stuck in "Metamagical Themas" (On Number Numbness)! Guess I shouldn't have bought the English version (same paperback as you). "Gödel, Escher, Bach" was a joy to read in German. The translators wrote an epilogue about dealing with the dialogues, puns, wordplays, layered meanings; a colossal endeavor). Being a typographer's son, I also dig the effort being put into it. I read somewhere about the custom software for typesetting GEB, can't remember where.
Godel, Escher, Bach is my fave. Somehow I lost it when I moved. I JUST today received my new copy of it. My favorite theme is the idea of self-referential structures. I might have to check out the Strange Loop book. I've seen a compilation he put together of various essayists. It's called The Mind's 'I'...
As a fellow Hofstadter Fan, I second the recommendation of GEB. It gets a little deep, but the journey lightens the blow, as it is a gradual way of thinking about the incompleteness theorem. To the point that when you get to the deep end, you've got floaties on. I have to pick up I am a Strange Loop. Good vid.
Your geekiness is endearing, yet also intimidating :-) My brain turns to jelly at the thought of reading such big deep books. I am going through a phase of reading non-fiction, but not too heavy.
My goodness, you look happy like you're high on crack and bouncing off the walls or something. I can hardly remember when I had such book madness ... hmm, when I got my first comprehensive cook book (with circuit diagrams), and then when I got my final volume of The Gap Cycle (first time I paid for hard cover by choice). Good luck with cognitive models.
Please be more descriptive! Just "ahmazing" is not enough!
VVillowz 7 months ago
You are a seriously incredible girl.
jbearden 8 months ago
"Came up in GEB"?!
GEB was about consciousness! Through and through it was Hofstadter trying to build all but a mind: tying together what makes us human, the maths of our brain (1s and 0s), and our mind that can appreciate art and music, and can make sense of the nonsensical. Consciousness doesn't just "come up" it's the whole point!
Mentieth360 1 year ago
@Mentieth360 fosho!
synchronium24 4 months ago
@Mentieth360 you only know this because you read I Am A Strange Loop
kazumawarren 2 months ago
Comment removed
TuringTest1 1 year ago
Crab canon ftw.
janetzki1 1 year ago
Goedel got an Incomplete in math.
impCaesarAvg 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
u must read this.one u have started there is no turning back.a little 10 year old girl was raped and murderded in 1945.her body was not found until 1947.then a boy last week read this and did not copy and paste this message.the dead girl appeared in his room haunting him and killed him. if you do not copy and paste this onto 10 vidoes in 30 minutes the dead girl will appear in your room tonight and haunt you and kill you.well you better start to copy and paste to be saved not mine
DATAFUN123 2 years ago
You're now in possession of my new favorite book ever, my previous being GEB itself :)
It's brought me along a novel, incredible path of understanding that I can only hope will become clear to you, too. What I'm about to say, I mean with all of my heart: Enjoy.
ifnspifn 3 years ago
That's a great book by a great man.
goatunit 3 years ago
I hope you are not married yet ;)
The way mr. Hofstadter enlighetns us is very intriguiging and enlightening. All the best to you, and the Hoffstadter family!
ps. all love to GEB and Strange loops! ds.
cheers
/CZ
zeretiuz 3 years ago
Comment removed
zeretiuz 3 years ago
Who thought receiving a book could be so engaging, but Hofstadter does have that effect. Now I have to read the book too!
donotdespisethesnake 3 years ago
I pointed Prof. Hofstadter at this video. He was pleased and amused.
AWMorrow 3 years ago 6
I bought GEB:AEGB the year it came out, the year I turned 18. I would wager that I have read the book at least 20 times, and I find something new EVERY time I read it. Just watching this video I "stumbled" across has gotten me antsy to go get it off the shelf and read it again, right now. But I wanted to send you the comment first.
BTW, you are CUTE!!!!
lkkoller 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
cybr sex ne1??? check out my profile and msg me on M.S.N!!
hey hey. if ne1 is reading this. Lt
XbeccabeeX 3 years ago
Looking forward to receiving my copy of "I am a strange loop".
GEB is a really fascinating book so I hope my expectations are not too high...
SuperNiFF 3 years ago
nice review, thanks
exDreamDuck 3 years ago
Awesome! I wish the world was full of intelligent girls like you. Intelligence is sexy
Oh, and GEB is an awesome book indeed.
fastfret1 3 years ago 4
is the universe a strange loop? are the tiny membranes in m theory universes? is that why mass gets extremely enormous when you get down to the Plank length?
peterphilip 3 years ago
i love GEB -- one of my favorite books ever. the way meaning arises out of meaningless components is really fascinating, and the way hofstadter portrayed it was really beautiful and really heightened my appreciation for so many of the elegant things in our world.
hofstadter is quite incredible with the wordplay in his dialogue as well. i loved the crab canon and the ant fugue most particularly.
dylz 3 years ago
I read an interview where he credits my friend (Uriah K) for giving him the idea for I am a strange loop
when i read that i was beside myself. COOL!
isotropic 3 years ago
Yes I have read I am a strange loop. And I read GEB when I was 17, it is always priceless to talk to GEB readers, especially ones who fell in love with it. I wonder how you got to know about GEB when you were 16, I personally is more philosophically inclined and was introduced to it by my philosophy professor. Oh, Hofstadter is making an appearing tomorrow(today is Saturday January 19, 2008) in Philosophy Talk. Hopefully I'll be able to call up there and ask him some questions.
isoMorpheus 4 years ago
It's not about math. It's not about music. It's not about art. It's all about how inanimate matter can achieve consciousness. If you want some good rebuttals to Hofstadter's arguments try John Searl's Chinese room thought experiment and Roger Penrose's "The Emperors New Mind". GEB is one of the best books ever written in my opinion though, so I'm a bit biased.
TuringTest1 4 years ago 2
yes yes yes yes!
isotropic 3 years ago
I.
@TuringTest1
Searle?
*guffaw*
No. Dead wrong.
Searle's Chinese room is one of the most egregiously obtuse, effortlessly refuted -and "refuted" most assuredly *is* the correct word- thought experiments in all of philosophy of mind.
Penrose, most unlike Searle, is a genuinely first-rate thinker, but his twaddle about microtubuli and supposed impossibility of of explaining the human brain's mathematical insights by any algorithmic process are only five or six orders of magnitude...
polymath7 1 year ago
II. .
...more perceptive than Searle's Chinese room -and that's saying almost infinitessimally little.
For a *worthwhile* rebuttal of Hoftstadter's physicalist position, see David Chalmers' 'The Conscious Mind'.
I do like your screen name. What do you think of Shakespeare's eighteenth sonnet? Would you mind terribly being compared to a summer's day, or would spring perhaps do better?
polymath7 1 year ago
@polymath7 OK, I concede, you busted me on the Searl thing. I don't think Searl's argument is very comprehensive and do not consider it a "good" rebuttal to GEB. I was mainly addressing those who seem to have read the book without knowing what it's about; Penrose and Searl are just came to mind as memorable authors on the same topic.
As far as Chalmers I had never heard of him befor now and intend to familiarize myself with his work.
And thanks, I'm glad somebody gets my screen name.
TuringTest1 1 year ago
I'll start reading it soon, and I'm so much looking forward to it!!
askeluv 4 years ago
Hofstadter is actually a bit of a typography dork too. I expect that was very very deliberate.
ZombieJesusBrainz 4 years ago 2
I'm reading GEB at the moment... it hasn't failed to amaze me yet... I enjoyed this video (thanks), I'll have to check out the rest of his work. Hope all is well...
-CHEERS!
sowhatfixxxer 4 years ago
I just read Strange Loop... I finished it in 7 days at a 50 pg per day pace. I didnt read G.E.B, and I dont know if I will. You said yourself, the book is "pompously clever", and that's the way I felt about strange loop. I'm moving on! I'm reading a book now called The Molecules Within Us. yes yes, molecular biology. that is where the party is at! p.s. you're cuuuuuuuuute haha
fodads 4 years ago
Really nice too see this on youtube.
F00dTube 4 years ago
I want to date you.
dionysian83 4 years ago
(part II)
I think 'self-referential' is the phrase you're looking for at the end of the vid? It reminded me of the reader who wrote to DH at Scientific American about his parrot who he trained to say 'I don't understand anything I'm saying'! Brilliant stuff! Didn't know about the IAASL book. I must buy it. Thanks for you entertaining vid and enjoy your latest purchase
fl1ghtsim 4 years ago
'Crappy lighting' - Yes!
'Dishevilled appearance' - Not a bit of it. If I was as young and good looking as you I would *never* apologise for my appearance!
GEB is brilliant - I think I've been reading it for years as I keep forgetting it and having to come back. You reminded me of myself trying to explain why GEB is sooo good. It's very difficult to condence information about such a huge work.
fl1ghtsim 4 years ago
Enjoyed the video, I love Hofstadter too...now reading IAASL for the second time.
iamastrangeloop 4 years ago
I'm currently reading this book. I was very excited by the title and the description of it--I think it was written up in the paper, but I don't remember. Any, I-ness is a big topic for me. Not because it is about "me", but because I strongly feel that ultimately, the idea of "me" is an illusion.
tedperkins 4 years ago
You strongly remind me of my next door neighbour, you look very similar and your whole style, the way you speak/act, your voice etc. is also very, very similar. Not sure why I'm telling you this you but I think it's fascinating. You have a doppelganger.
gucker07 4 years ago
Whoa, that's cool. I only rarely meet people who remind me of myself.
Prepoceros 4 years ago
@Prepoceros lol it turns out yous live next door to eachother.
janetzki1 1 year ago
what a waspy fox.
teflonmagnet 4 years ago
Funny how G.E.B. fans always encounter serious difficulties when attempting to explain what the book is about:
"Um, it's difficult to describe exactly what G.E.B. is about. I mean, from the title, 'Gödel, Escher, Bach', it's about math, art, and music, and the connections between them. ... It talks about ... okay, here's what it says about itself ... So that's a pretty good description of what it is. It's ... [sigh] ... it's about math ..."
Oh well, nice try. :) And a good book, by all means.
rezonatix3 4 years ago
How would you describe it? =)
Prepoceros 4 years ago
Possibly by means of New Statesman's metaphor: "a first-class workout in the best mental gymnasium in the world". As you said, it's very clever, but cleverness has to be experienced to be understood and appreciated, and it can only be experienced when the thinker puts his or her mental muscles to some real work. Those who have the motivation and inclination to do so, will be richly rewarded in reading this book. Those who don't will not know what they're missing.
rezonatix3 4 years ago
@rezonatix3 Yeah cunt you explain it then.
janetzki1 1 year ago
GEB is about how "i" perceive the world and how the world cannot be trusted relative to "I". Turn GEB book cover upside down and you might see a concave and convex of the cube[s] (through its lightings) similar to Escher's concave and convex artwork. How appropriately cheeky!
chonglai 4 years ago
*closer to when GEB was published
dovepiove 4 years ago
Nice to see that other people are as excited about Hofstadter as I am...
By the way, you should search for "Victim of the Brain" on Google Video. It's a movie that was made a while ago, closer to the when GEB was published, and it has interviews with (a younger) Douglas Hofstadter. I like how he swings in his spinny-chair during some of the interviews.
dovepiove 4 years ago
Two good books on Godel: 1. Incompleteness And 2. Godel's Incompletenness Thereoms by Smullyan.
earlyphilosophy 4 years ago
omg, douglas hofstadter is so hot right now. im 12.
noahdassat 4 years ago
dude, did you delete my comment?
noahdassat 4 years ago
Dude, as far as I know, this is the first comment you've posted. Maybe YT deleted it?
Prepoceros 4 years ago
WOW. This guy sounds absolutely incredible.
If I ever get some time to *READ*, he's definitely high on my list.
jbshryne 4 years ago
Great to see someone as excited as I am about this. I'm half way through IAASL - quicker read than GEB so far. I also recognized the friendly familiar font; he pays close attention to presentation, which he talks about in a footnote (xviii). There are no footnote superscripts in the text, you need to look for them. I love the personal touch in this book, to see his perspective from his more mature place in life, having suffered significant loss. I'm really enjoying it. I'm sure you will too.
hoodtocoaster 4 years ago
Prepoperos, could you give us a few video updates while you're reading <i>I Am A Strange Loop</i>? I mean the book, not this self-referential sentence. Nor the one before. D'oh!
From "Metamagical Themas": <i>Although this sentence begins with "because", it it false. </i>The rest of this sentence is written in Thailand, on
<b>If π were 3, this sentence wΔuld lΔΔk like this.</b>
leporidus 5 years ago
Hee hee, those are some of my favorites.
Prepoceros 4 years ago
Wish there were hexagons in HTML. {-:
leporidus 4 years ago
He wrote another one?! I'm still stuck in "Metamagical Themas" (On Number Numbness)! Guess I shouldn't have bought the English version (same paperback as you). "Gödel, Escher, Bach" was a joy to read in German. The translators wrote an epilogue about dealing with the dialogues, puns, wordplays, layered meanings; a colossal endeavor). Being a typographer's son, I also dig the effort being put into it. I read somewhere about the custom software for typesetting GEB, can't remember where.
leporidus 5 years ago
Oh yes... Number Numbness. I must have had to read that one like a gazillion times.
jjuran 4 years ago
Now I get it! (-;
Man, I'm getting real slow, feels like I'm a googolplex years old.
leporidus 4 years ago
Yeah, it took you forever! ;-)
jjuran 4 years ago
I so glad I subscribed to you. Thanks so much.
Interminablespirt 5 years ago
Godel, Escher, Bach is my fave. Somehow I lost it when I moved. I JUST today received my new copy of it. My favorite theme is the idea of self-referential structures. I might have to check out the Strange Loop book. I've seen a compilation he put together of various essayists. It's called The Mind's 'I'...
Gspeex 5 years ago
I haven't read that one yet, but I've been meaning to. Maybe I'll get around to it after this one.
Prepoceros 4 years ago
Hurrah for your order, thanks for paying my paycheck. ;)
queenlizzie 5 years ago
As a fellow Hofstadter Fan, I second the recommendation of GEB. It gets a little deep, but the journey lightens the blow, as it is a gradual way of thinking about the incompleteness theorem. To the point that when you get to the deep end, you've got floaties on. I have to pick up I am a Strange Loop. Good vid.
howtofoldsoup 5 years ago
Oooh, I like the analogy. I'm picturing little Achilles- and Tortoise-shaped floaties.
Prepoceros 4 years ago
Your geekiness is endearing, yet also intimidating :-) My brain turns to jelly at the thought of reading such big deep books. I am going through a phase of reading non-fiction, but not too heavy.
SqueakyGibson 5 years ago
My goodness, you look happy like you're high on crack and bouncing off the walls or something. I can hardly remember when I had such book madness ... hmm, when I got my first comprehensive cook book (with circuit diagrams), and then when I got my final volume of The Gap Cycle (first time I paid for hard cover by choice). Good luck with cognitive models.
999bob666 5 years ago
Ohh you like books. You'd reccomend them to anyone? Even me?
Would I like it?
Huh?
Huh?
Would I? Huh?
Anywayzzzz my mum loves books. I should tell her about it. =]
Nat4Brendan 5 years ago