“I kind of took the side that if you did a clean program without the quad you can still win and you can be comfortable,” Chan said. “But to be honest, it’s a whole different level to be doing quads, a whole different level of confidence.”
“I understand now. I’m on the other side of the wall. It’s a level of excitement I’m talking about. You just elevate your program to that level of excitement where everyone else who has done quads, like Plushenko, has that excitement."
Was Plushenko´s program so bad like some of Lysacek´s defenders try to convince us? If we listen to different commentators (NBC, British Eurosport, France, etc) we can see that some of them couldn´t say who the winner was and some of them thought that Plushenko´s performance was enough to win the gold. If someone knows commentators who said ¨Lysacek was head and shoulders above the rest, nobody can touch his gold medal" , please tell us who they were.
Evan is not a better all-round skater because he doesn´t have Lambiel´s spins, Takahashi´s footwork and beautiful transitions or Plushenko´s jumping technique. Not to mention that he is no John Curry in terms of artistry and he doesn´t even have the amazing choreographies that Yagudin use to have. His victory and his second place after the SP were a personal preference of the judges, not even the biased NBC commentators had the guts to declare him winner before seeing Plushenko´s marks.
Right now the biggest stars of FS are the girls, Mao Asada and Yu-Na Kim and the major fan base is in Japan and Korea, just look at how many shows they have.
Without Plushenko the Vancouver Oly would have been very boring, Lysacek was the reigning W. Ch. and the GP finalist and their "battle" was perfect for the promotion of FS and of men´s event. Why was ISU so angry because Plushenko skipped Worlds?
ISU are interested only in $. They don´t care about sport´s future, about who´s the best, etc. They are interested only in increasing the FS fan base, wich means more $, that´s why they change the rules so often and they try to please all the fans, from America, Japan, Europe, etc. They gave to American fans what they´ve been expecting for such a long time, an Olympic champion. Then they changed the rules because they saw that the Japaneses and Europeans were very disappointed after Vancouver.
Undoubtedly Evan Lysacek star and he's very talented.
BUT!
First, it is not an Olympic Champion.
All the world's geniuses figure skating such as Stanislav Zhuk, Tatiana Tarasova, Valentin Piseev, say that three leaders consist only of those who make the quadruple.
Then the question!
What the hell does Lysacek in the top three and even more so in the first place.
Pure driving - this is not an argument.
Elements! That's the main thing. Quaternary to his credit there.
Like most people around the globe are saying, MEN’S FIGURE SKATING BECAME A JOKE AFTER THAT NIGHT. The judging has been biased but it's unsurprising. Since Salt Lake people are very suspicious about the judges, and this just confirmed it! THIS WAS A FULL BLOWN ROBBERY!!!! and another reason why pretty girl like me won´t be watching this junk any more….
Now I resume : Lysa's most diff technical tricks was the same than Y Kim did plus the other easy stuff was performed WELL with one level higher of one spin and one level higher of one step sequence than Plush (judges decide the level of difficulty), for except his two combo-deduction. Plush performed a trick NOONE DID plus the other easy stuff was performed WELL WITH POSITIVE GOE for except one single jump deduction.
So both skaters didn't fail any of their easy elements. BUTone guy can do a difficult trick that another guy can't (not able to do because of his no good physical condition). So first guy is better. Sorry, plain and simple.. Technically, Plushenko is better, artistically, according to jury, too. So it's the End of all Lysa's defender’s augments.
@pinto89100 If you want to argue, at least, you MUST SUGGEST NUMERICAl STATISCS AND OBJECTIVE PERSPECTIVES rather than repeating same illogical nonsenses! You keep saying that Lysa had clean jumps: why so he got two combo-deductions? Forget a quad, my friend: Evan's 1st 3A is ¼ pre-rotated and the 2ond one: - GOE ( If Lysa had not executed jumps poorly, he would've not gotten deduction. Bad execution decides a deduction What a sophistry!) Evan's 3F was from the wrong-edge but wasn't deducted.
@pinto,Seconde, Plush's LP was full of transitions, transitions are presented between all his later elements and score reflected it- IT WAS HIS EVERAGE TR SCORE 7.25 –more higher transition marks is inconsistent with his level of skating=quad-skaters loose on TR (but logically, they have to be MORE rewarded for the quad because it's more difficult element) In SP judges put to Plush low TR marks as well as they underscored his perfect 4-3! Noone can deny biased judgment in SP
@pinto Third, noone can deny that Lysa skated girls programs : female players can do the same routine, Kim and Mao. Forget the quad ! Lysa jumped two ugly 3 axel-a jump that used to separate the men from the ladies (until Midori Ito jumped it). And now the women are constantly striving to surpass themselves and their predecessors with technically more challenging programs. Tell me, please, why aren't the men doing the same thing?? Lysa is the worst Oly champ World ever seen.
@catnabiya Look, Evan's program really wasn't that much easier than Evgeny's. In fact, the only thing that was at all different about the programs (in relation to what jumps they did) was that Plushenko did a Quad-toe-triple-toe, evan did a triple-flip-double-toe-double-loop and Plushenko did a triple-lutz-DOUBLE-toe and Lysacek did a triple-lutz-TRIPLE-toe, so there was even a combination in Lysacek's program that was MORE difficult than Plushenko's, so you can't really say validly (continued)
@Luukashist Yes, Evan's program WAS really that much easier than Evgeny's. Do you want to know how much easier? Every figure skater and FS profs knows that mastering a quad take 50% your practice- time; Watch again what Stojko said : "If you take out a quad, it makes the whole program at least 50% easier to do." He also said: "There are junior skaters who can skate that same (Lysa's) program ( Elvis is right, check it out at ISU official, at LP protocols of "Junior World Championships ",)
@Lukashis It's funny to read how Evan's defenders would like to see Plush performing a 3Lz-3T (as did Lysa) loaded to his Quad-Triple, while Lysacek was able to perform only freaking 3-DOUBLE-DOUBLE loaded to his most daring 3LZ-3T (Y Kim does it better). I will tell you that 3Lz-3T is junior level combo and was performed brilliantly by many other skaters at Vancouver (they are still very far from podium), while 4-3 was even not attempt by anyone else except Plush and that is in both programs!
@catnabiya if a triple lutz triple toe is a junior level combination then why did Plushenko not do it, hm? Explain that, and why he had not three-jump combinations. Really, the only thing that made Plushenko's program any more difficult was the Quad toe-triple toe and even with that his transitions and footwork weren't at all difficult, I mean he HAS no transtions whatsoever
@Luukashist Why Plushenko didn't do a 3Lz-3T loaded to his 4-3? Because it's much more easer element than 4-3 combo and Plush's opening combination was 4-3. Quad in combo is THE EVIDENCE OF THE HIGH CLASS OF SKATER. Mediocre skaters perform only triple-triple and triple-double-double jump-combinations (how pathetic..) Maybe you can tell me why Lysa performed junior/female level 3Lz-3T as opening combo, hm? If 30 y. a (before quad) best skaters had to use 3A-3T as opening jump's combination.
@Luukashist Why Plush didn't do 3-3? French B. Joubert gives good explanation: from "to-quad-or-not-to-quad: "...Brian Joubert maintains a quad should be worth more and worth the risk of performing one in competition. He says, "There is pressure when you try a quad and there is pressure after it, because it is more difficult to do the next jump.".... Now answer to me why Lysa didn't perform one another 3-3, hm? -he didn't do any high difficulty move at the beginning of his program.
@catnabiya A quad-toe-triple toe alone doesn't make evidence of a high class skater, Plushenko is not a very good all-round skater. Really his only talent is jumping, his skating skills aren't that good, he has no transitions and his idea of artistry is stopping and making faces. And then because Lysacek beat him fair and square he just goes about complaining. Does that honestly sound like a high-class skater to you?
@Luukashist She is talking about GOE since Lysacek won in the free by receiving more GOE than Plushenko, with his wrong-flip edge not deducted and other triples imperfect as well. I know you admire skaters with transitions but it is unfair to evaluate "skating skill" based on "transition". All skaters do not have to imitate Adam Rippon, Nobunari, Takahashi, Chan,etc. There has been many programs artistic without transitions: Yagudin, Urmanov, Witt, Plushenko, Joubert, Baiul, Candeloro,etc.
@Luukashist I understand why there are always so many lying at Evan’s defender’s comments (same than in US media) about Plush's Oly LP; Just because otherwise you can't justify win of a silly performance over the more difficult one. My friend, Plush HAD BETTER ARTISTRY AND SKATING SKILL MARKS; his talent is not only jumping because Lysa simply did'’t overscored Plush at PrCompScore. And Plush is better all-round skater because he received better marcs for overall Performance and Execution.
@catnabiya no, I'm sorry, of COURSE it sounds like a high-class skater, because Plushenko did the quad that clearly just makes him so far ahead of everyone else! No matter that he had no transitions, ugly footwork, no real artistry and half of his program was crossovers anyway, none of that matters!!! The only thing that matters is jumps, maybe in figure skating from now on the men should just go out and perform a quad and then get off and it can be judged that way?
@Luukashist Luka! Luka! Don't be ridiculous! Do you think that Laysa is better skater than Plushy? LOL! Lysa also don't belives, that he is the better skater!! Just glad he got a gold medal. Plushenko will be in FS history books . I can't believe, you're a skater and you not see,That Evan is how boring, gauche and non- charismatic! Although it's sure he very much bent to his knees. LOL! This is the most important aspect. LOL!
@Luukashist I'm sorry. Luke is indeed better than the Luka. I was fooled by your nickname. But i remember your video, in the title really was Luke. As Luke Skywalker ....(I think, Luka Italian name)
@Luuka, And what is about short program? What jump's combination in Lysacek's SP that was MORE difficult than Plushenko's? What did he get such high score for after the short ? There were no extra jumps in second half and wonderful spins level-4 difficulty in the Short (it is too short LOL) yet he got just 0,55 points less.
My dear friend, whole World saw it: Judges started cheating at the Short program!
@catnabiya I'll just say this to you: GO AND LOOK UP HOW THE SCORING SYSTEM WORKS because you obviously don't know anything about how figure skating is scored
@catnabiya Yeah, sure, you keep believing that, just because Elvis Stoijko is a skater doesn't make him the most intelligent person on Earth. Maybe it took up 50% of HIS practice time, but not for all skaters. And the reason Evan did no quad was because he'd had an injury to his left foot, not because he was afraid of it.
@Luukashist And the reason Evan did no quad was because HE NEVER LAND A SINGLE QUAD IN ANY INTERNATIONAL COMPETITION, and an injury to his left foot isn't an excuse (it's only prove our point that Lysa isn’t a champion material) Evan attempted a quad with seating on the ice at 2010 USA nationals. Was his foot broken between 2010 nationals and 2010 Vancouver? No excuses, my friend: Lysa is a Smart Coward not a smart athlete.
@Luukashist Stojko is 7 times Canadian champion, 3 times World Champion and 2 times Oly Silver medalist. I don't need other proves that he knows better than you what he is talking about and, as a FS Expert and Analys,t he knows better than you how judging system works.
@Luuka, I live in Europe and read and heard many Euro and Asian experts that said Plush's two programs were more difficult and more ambitious and he should have won (Canadian E. Stojko, French Ph Condeliro, Ph Pelissier, J Pons (FS commentators and experts), Chinese Lui Chen, coach of Shen & Zhao, Turkish figure skater Kutay Eryolda and they did it in the media &press) Name me one single non American FS expert or analysts who said that right man won.
@catnabiya Irina Rodnina said she'd hoped that Plushenko would win but said that he made too many small mistakes and that Evan's program was more logically woven together
@Luukashist You have to cite Rodnina complitely, my friend. She said to SovSportNews."..Yes, Plushenko struggled, no doubt, and even with that skating could be a champion. Libra swayed, Evgeni not lost, the American did not win, but turn things in our direction, leadership of the national federation failed." - She also said that "Evgeni’s silver medal is a colossal result... But if the Federation had stepped in, he would have taken home the gold".
@catnabiya if you think that doing ONE JUMP makes an ENTIRE PROGRAM 50% harder, then you're sadly mistaken, I'm sorry doing one more difficult jump does not make an entire program that much harder, because once the jump is done, it's done and over with and it has no effect on the rest of the program
@Luukashist "Quad done and over with and it has no effect on the rest of the program?" Really? Go to see again( bellow) what French B Joubert, Lysa's temporary coach Tarasova, sport journalist Geoffrey, J. E. Goff, a physics professor at Virginia's Lynchburg College and author of "Gold Medal Physics" said about effect of quad on the rest of the program-go educate yourself before posting like complete moron about physical effects of quadruple jump.
@catnabiya that Evan's program was a ladies' program, especially because you never see (except for Mao Asada) a woman doing two triple axels, let alone one. Lysacek's spins and footwork were far beyond Plushenko, who did spins that a club skater (someone who's never even competed internationally) could do
@Luukashist Evan's program was a ladies' program, especially because I saw a woman doing triple axels (sins Midori Ito jumped it at 1988): Tonya Harding, Ludmila Nelidina, Yukari Nakano and Mao Asada have succeeded it in completing; Evan's program was a ladies' program, especially because I saw a woman doing Evan’'s most difficult leap: Irina Slutskaya and Y Kim ( she consistently landed 3Lz-3T at 2009-10 season)
@Luukash You can't say that Lysacek's spins were FAR beyond only because all 3 his spins got level 4, and Evgeni's one spin got level 3 and two others received level four -difference on those Lysa/Plush spins is very small (0.4+0.1 points). If you know enough about the current COP, then differences between level 3 and 4 are solely arbitrary and unclear according to ISU rule. Judges declare level of spins.
@Luukash, You can't say either that Lysacek's footwork were FAR beyond Plushenko's because Plush OVERSCORED Lysa on one of his step sequences. Anyway, If Lysa had done the 4-3T like Evgeny, then it would be OK to judge the difference between them on one level of a spin and step sequences. But when Evan had a problematic 3A and VERY PROBLEMATIC TRIPLE-FLIP and no quad, let alone a quad-triple combo.
@Luukash, A subjective grade (judges decide level of difficulty of spin and steps) should not be enough to trump a technically superior program. A subjective grade of easy elements should determinate the winner only if 2 programs are technically equivalent and skated technically equivalently. Not when there is a clear gap: 4-3 combo at both programs!
If 4-3 combo is not everything, why one level of a step sequence or a spin is ???
@catnabiya It was two step sequences and a spin. And Plushenko's program wasn't at all technically superior except for the quad toe-triple toe, Lysacek's footwork was much more difficult and executed much better with more fine edges and better knee bend etc. And Plushenko's spins were quite simple
@Luukashist Are you English speaking American? Plushenko got 3.30 +1.00 GOE in his Sist3 while Lysa got 3.30+ 0.90. So for one of their two step sequence, PLUSH GOT MORE POINT THAN EVAN; It's understandable now? So you can't say that Evan's footwork was "much more difficult and executed much better than Plushenko’s". Go to official Vancouver site and check the detailed judging sheet.
@Luukashist No No, my friend I'm notonly talking about the grades of execution, Evan's sequence SiSt3 was a level 3 as well as Plushenko's. Check it out.
@catnabiya if you think the judges declare the level of the elements then you clearly don't have any clue how this system works, it's the TECHNICAL PANEL who do that, they aren't judges, they determine the levels of all of the elements
@Luukashist Try a little harder, my friend. Everyone knows, those technical panel is the humans being, they have a judge's status, they declare arbitrary level of difficulty of a spin & step sequence. There are not clean standards in ISU rule-book for judging the level of those elements, it's subjective. ( prove me the contrary.) So such easy and difficulty-subjective elements can't determine the winner.
@catnabiya Yes there are very clear-cut standards for how to judge a level of a spin or footwork, once again I'll say that you clearly have not clue how the system works. And if you want me to prove that it's subjective, why don't YOU prove that it is? You haven't given me one valid piece of evidence that the assigning of levels of difficulty is actually subjective
@Luukashist Of couse, I will give to you one valid piece of evidence that the assigning of levels of difficulty is actually subjective: If you look /Score.pdf at ISU official site, you will see that Plush's spin FSSp (judged level 3 at Vancouver) was judged level 4 at three previous events Plush won this year. That was exactly same spin (check it out on the videos), yet the level was scored higher. Lysa's same stepsequence for example was scored lower (level3) at USA national than at Vanc
@catnabiya OK, so 4 women in all of history. BOY, SO MANY women doing triple axels, my gosh!!! And they ALWAYS do one in the short and two in the free, right? NO. And if women can do a 3Lz-3T then why didn't Plushenko do it, hm?
lol, agree what you said, you can consider Evan as a rare woman doing triple axel. If he skated for women team, cause what he did is = to what women figure skaters do, performed only triple and double jumps, he may be should have won faire and scare. lol!!!
@pinto, You keep saying that second half of Plush's program was FREE , so can you tell me, please, how at the first part of his program Plush had a time to do the same number of elements than Lysa did for the both? HaHaHa! Is Lysa sooo SLOW!( exactly! That what Stojko had said!) Evan did two combo at second half, Plush did one-OK, but Evan didn't do anything hard at the beginning for have the tired legs! Plush did! So you have no point here.
@pinto,Forth, are you calling one level difference on one steps and on one spin the OVERAL BETTER performance? What judges made Lysa to win was give to him level 4 for one of his step sequence and same for one of his spin= so the judges pulled Evan's technical score up on simple things. It's a joke to make win one level of a spin & a step sequence against a quad-triple in MEN's event!!! That is why it's so not convinsing & controversial!
@catnabiya Was Plush better on his jumps? Yes; Was Plush able to perform level 4 on steps and spin? Yes (two of his spins and one of his two step-saquences were level 4) Was Lysa do 4-3? No; Hwo is better technicaly? Plush.
@pinto, The Olympics had always been viewed as the event where athletes come to push the boundaries of their sport, take risks and set new records.Olympic Champion must to be the TOP of this sport!, If your suggestion about not take a risk for Lysa on Quad is correct, so why someone just does 16-17 Clean, Flawless, Breathtaking doubles with Grace and Elegance and become a Oly Champion? Is Lysa Olympic champion? HaHaHa! Can you understand that Man's F S can be never more degraded?!
@pinto, And Yes, Quad makes a program automatically difficult! Do you forget what Elvis Stojko said?-"If you take out a quad, it makes the whole program at least 50% easier to do." While at least the top ten skaters dhad the nice transitions, difficult spins and intricate footwork, only one landed quad-triple in both programs at Vancouver.
@catnabiya Also, I already explained how Evan's program was harder than Plushenko's many times, still you only see the quad. You seem incapable of grasping that the quad does not automatically make the program harder, it is just a hard element. To you, it's only the number of times that a skater spins in the air that defines difficulty in figure skating, there is nothing else that can surpass a quad. You don't take into consideration doing harder combos on tired legs, you don't take into (cont)
@catnabiya -consideration the transitions, you describe them as if they are meaningless steps in a figure skating program, which really causes me to doubt if you actually know what they are, and how intricate, creative steps and moves going into jumps raises the difficulty. You don't take into consideration the choreography, the way the elements are balanced in a program. You completely ignore my points of Plush's last minute of his program being empty, filled with him doing nothing but posing.
@catnabiya Yes, it is disappointing that the men's champion lacked the quad, but no one else had a superior program to snatch the gold from him. Takahashi fell on his quad, Joubert and Jeremy Abbott (who had been my favorite to win the gold medal) both had meltdowns, and you already know what I think about Plushenko. Evan was the only skater that had the best program OVERALL; clean jumps, full of transitions, great choreography, great spins, and his highlight: the footwork.
So what is the current champion? He can't quad, not graceful, stiff, awkward, hasn't charisma, isn't special, boring. Neither athlete nor artistry! What a champion!!! In Europe and Asia absolute irrelevant. Congrat ISU!! Pitiful champion forever! I watched the Fs in my entire life,( i'm not young) but such insignificant champion i never saw. I think, this is the male Fs regress!!!!! In my country many peoples began to watch the Fs because of Evgeni. Solely! Evan is absolute irrelevant!
@camhirtle i think i will be less sad being such a bad loser as Plushenko than being such a “good” (not trying a quadruple jump, real sissy-bo,y face-in-his-hands uncontrollable sobbing) winner lol
Lambiel for example. He is definitely the world best spinner and no one can doubt his artistry. But he lost because of his struggling with the quad (he was recovering from an injury just as Lysacek did, by the way). Respects to Lambiel, Tokahashi, Joubert and all the other "losers"! Without you, soon skaters will be competing at drawing figure 8 at the Olympics. No respect to such champion Evan Lysacek!
@catnabiya Exactly. And because of that injury Lambiel struggled on his quads, and because of that, he lost his chance for a medal. EXACTLY my point. Evan knew he couldn't take such risk under this system, skated a clean if conservative program, but it was just enough to take the Gold.
@pinto89100 Exactly! So, what you're saying is that since he was injured, he had special treatment from the judges allowing him not to perform the Quad and getting the high scores (equal to quad-skater) regardless. According to you, if Lysa'll get next time more serious injury he can perform 16-17 flawless doubles with grace and elegance( and some spins of cause) and became a Oly champ. But who does feel respect for him, pinto?
@catnabiya No, that is not what I am saying, AT ALL. You just don't get this system, do you? You just don't get that the quad is not a required element, that by putting more jumps after the half point, HARDER JUMPS, you are garnering as many points as you can. Plushenko may have had a harder element, but Evan had the harder program. He had harder jump combos later in his program, he had more transitions (whether you think so or not, these DO make the program harder, and do raise the (cont)
@pinto89100 Lambiel didn´t lose the gold medal because of the quad, all his jumps and combos were deducted, except a 2A and a 3S, if I remember well. Lambiel must go for quads because he can´t jump 3A, without quads he can´t be a competitive skater.
@SimonaCB Lambiel got -1.60 GOE for his first 4T, then -1.92 for his 4T+2T and one more combo, his 3F+2T+2T was given minus GOE. Although you are right about Lambiel needing the quad because he has always struggled on his 3A's. I was unfair when I wrote that comment. Although it still proves my point. Evan could have easily lost any chance for a medal if he fell on a quad, and skaters like Jeremy, Brian, Takahashi had landed theirs and been clean throughout the rest of the program.
@catnabiya level of difficulty.) My point was that doing the quad would have been a foolish move to do seeing how 1) he hasn't done it consistently enough recently, and 2) because of his foot injury. Lambiel had an injury, he went for it, and look where it got him. You brought up the fact that he at least tried the quad on an injury, but hun, he wasn't exactly going for the gold was he? In the end that risk lost him any chance of winning a medal. Exactly my point, which you didn't get at all.
To every americans: Evgeni has/had 18 shows( 40 programs) in Japan. Evgeni ordered cargo transportation, it is now 500 kg(? ponds) gifts, but to Evgeni has yet come 6 shows. I think, he is only jumper..LOL!!!LOL!!! And he is cocky.., therefore received the many gifts....LOL!
@SGhockeychika4 I love Johnny, but too much to me, too feminine, I like to see the difference between man and woman. Plushenko is great, because pretended it that the FS can do manly, yet artistically. Therefore, the FS fans went nuts for it all over the world. You bored, when he watched the Hafanana program? I watched many times, and i always enjoy it. I always laugh. Have you ever seen the Sex bomb program of Plushy? I think, that program is the most-watched FS show ever.
@SGhockeychika4 You calm down! We admire your big athletes. We know ,and adore your athletes!!! They are our favorite! + Carl Lewis, Michael Jordan!!!!!, Michael Johnson, Jeremy Wariner, Michel Kwan, Armstrong, ect., ect.,!!! ( Nastia Lukin, she was born in Moscow!) But Evan's victory is controversial. You don't forget the sport isn't policy!!
These are stupid arguments over whether or not Lysacek deserved to win, I dont think he has won a gold medal in the olympics before, while Plushenko has had 3 medals there, come on! Plushenko has had his moment to shine 3 TIMES. People have just got to let it go. Lysacek won, Plushenko came 2nd. End of.
About the whole Evan/Plushenko disagreement: They're both great skaters.It's agreed that the quad jump is extremely hard,and I think he should have gotten more credit for it.Even so, all of his other jumps were poor in quality.They were more sloppy in the air-if you watch some of them in slo motion you can see that he's tilted in the wrong direction.Overall, Evan was cleaner and had more flow. That's what the judges awarded.Besides, didn't Evan have an injury and b/c of it cudnt do the quad?
@RubikCuber1 Plushy has many injury... You know, Evan won with the junior level program, and the top girl skaters also can do it. What the difference? Laysa said: "this just happens to be a jump that's too dangerous for me to do" The US media fake excuses: poor Lysa, he broke his leg last year, that why he didn't attempt the quad ect.
@lala630312 Yeah, Plushenko did have a few injuries. However, no girl skaters have ever landed a quadtoe in competition.I really don't think any girl has ever tried a quad toe (though I'm not sure if that's what you were referring to)And no, it wasn't just US media- I don't think they can fake Lysacek saying aloud that he had stress fractures. Anyway, if Plushenko had skated with ZERO mistakes, he woulda won. He didn't, so he didn't win. (I know what i'm talking about-- Figure skater myself.)
@RubikCuber1i don't understand, Lysa landed quadtoe in competition? i didn't see. You know, in Europe and Asia Plushenko is the real winner. I know what i'm talking, because i heard many tv chanel, radio, who said, Plushy is the real winner. Figure skating analysts say the decision to award Evan the gold medal over Evgeni was debatable. And that is not true, that Evan was faultless, only he hasn't deduction. He has an underrotated 3A, he got +GOE. Why? Evgeni has deuction one of the 3Axel
@RubikCuber1 If you are figure skater, you know what i'm talking about:
From NY Times ( /2010/02/20/sports/olympics/20longman.html) : Lysacek received only a judges warning for a wrong-edged takeoff on his triple flip, not a 2- or 3-point deduction that would have changed the outcome, which was narrowly decided in his favor by 257.67 points to 256.36." Who is the real Champion? ( I'm hungarian, Ernő Rubik is also hungarian , who made the rubikcube)
From NY Times ( /2010/02/20/sports/olympics/20longman.html) : Lysacek received only a judges warning for a wrong-edged takeoff on his triple flip, not a 2- or 3-point deduction that would have changed the outcome, which was narrowly decided in his favor by 257.67 points to 256.36."
So how come people say Lysacek is technologically strong and deserve the gold medal? Apparently he didn't get the deduction he deserved for the 3F, and his uderrotated 3Axel. Why?
From NY Times ( /2010/02/20/sports/olympics/20longman.html) : Lysacek received only a judges warning for a wrong-edged takeoff on his triple flip, not a 2- or 3-point deduction that would have changed the outcome, which was narrowly decided in his favor by 257.67 points to 256.36."
So how come people say Lysacek is technologically strong and deserve the gold medal? Apparently he didn't get the deduction he deserved for the 3F, and his uderrotated 3Axel. Why?
From NY Times ( /2010/02/20/sports/olympics/20longman.html) : Lysacek received only a judges warning for a wrong-edged takeoff on his triple flip, not a 2- or 3-point deduction that would have changed the outcome, which was narrowly decided in his favor by 257.67 points to 256.36."
So how come people say Lysacek is technologically strong and deserve the gold medal? Apparently he didn't get the deduction he deserved for the 3F, and his uderrotated 3Axel Why?
@Luukashist Yes, they do.From NY Times ( /2010/02/20/sports/olympics/20longman.html) : "Lysacek received only a judges warning for a wrong-edged takeoff on his triple flip, not a 2- or 3-point deduction that would have changed the outcome, which was narrowly decided in his favor by 257.67 points to 256.36. "
@lala630312 If you are figure skater, you know what i'm talking about:
From NY Times ( /2010/02/20/sports/olympics/20longman.html) : Lysacek received only a judges warning for a wrong-edged takeoff on his triple flip, not a 2- or 3-point deduction that would have changed the outcome, which was narrowly decided in his favor by 257.67 points to 256.36." Who is the real Champion? ( I'm hungarian, Ernő Rubik is too, who made the rubikcube)
@Luukashist Of course, no. But the fs is a sport, and the Oly motto: Citius, Fortius, Altius. Plushy was faster, stronger, higher.. I know this from an american:Press conference 2009. Lysa:"I think it's important that we try to promote athletes working on the quad i know it's very dangerous element it's dangerous to train it, it's dangerous try in competition...
@Luukashist Well, your words only prove our point: Lysa is not a champion materiel; he had no good physical condition for it. To be an Olympic champion you should at least attempt the most difficult jumps well (what the silver medalist CAN DO) as perfect the easy stuff! (what EVERY skater can do). Lysacek is Oly Champion? HaHaHa! Man’s Figure Skating is soooooo degraded…
@catnabiya Again, it's not always the best skater who wins, just the one who skates the cleanest, and Plushenko didn't skate the cleanest and Lysacek did. I'm not that big a Lysacek fan or a big Plushenko fan (I prefer Daisuke Takahashi or Stephane Lambiel), I just know from watching plushenko that if he HAD skated clean he definitely would've won. P.S. I am impressed with how Plushenko made such a successful comeback after 4 years out!
@Luukashist You have to be naive to believe that all the clean programs should be above the others. Lysa's level of the program was female. Even children do such jumps what Lysa did in Vancouver. No wonder it LOOKED clean (but it WOSN'T: huge peroration on 3Axel and wrong-edged Flip looks clean only for someone who doesn't know what FS is about). Obviously, Plush was robbed of the gold. Vancouver 2010 is one more shameful page in the history of Olympic Games.
@catnabiya So by your logic, triple jumps are only for the ladies to perform? Okay then, we should have the men perform 8 quads... maybe even have some quints. ...No? That post is sexist and incredibly ignorant. Also extremely ironic seeing how Plushenko could barely perform a triple lutz without wobbling. The fact that that very problem occurred several times in his performance, I find his +GOEs laughable. The judges were obviously in favor of Plush, but thank god the right man won in the end.
@SimonaCB No, I have to say it's the other way around...Plushenko's triple axels were so bad, I'd have to say Mao's were actually better than his as far as execution! I really wonder what he has to say about Mao's silver win? "Wizout truple axel, iz just ice dancing." Poor deluded man...and it seems that the word is what exactly represents his fan base. xD If you look at the whole picture and really knew as much about FS as you think, you would know Plushenko couldn't have done Evan's program.
@dorca000 Well I suggest hshim80 fixes the flaws in his argument. and NO, don't delude yourself into thinking he's some kind of expert because obviously he's not. Evan's component score is not to high seeing how his footwork, spins, and all that good stiff were superior. And transitions have been used before Vancouver as a criteria, just that they were optional between footwork. Now they are both part of the criteria and rightly so.
@dorca000 If Plushenko had been scored correctly, he would have still lost, even with all of Evan's deductions. Plushenko's number of +'s in his GOE scores were a joke seeing how he couldn't land half of them w/o looking like he was ready to buckle on almost every single one. Not to mention out titled they were in the air. Also, you have to consider the choreography. Evan's was miles ahead of Plushenko's in terms of choreography as well as the set up. It was much more difficult.
@dorca000 Evan had more triples after the half point than Plushenko (10% bonus for every jump after the half point.) He also had one more triple than Plushenko. Now you also have to consider the fact that Plushenko lacked transitions, that his footwork was very simple, and that his spins lacked Evan's centering. Overall Evan's program was harder. The quad is only ONE element, it does not define the whole program.
"TO LYSACEK DEFENDERS: If you wanna argue that Lysacek fairly won, plz talk to us based on ISU RULE and numerical data. Do not simply say that Lysacek was better in artistry but actually Lysacek got better points in technicality, which causes more controversy than consensus. The offical Vancouver Olympic site still set all records open to everyone, and ISU also clearly stipulated on which part they make deductions and award bonus points based on RULE!"
@dorca000 Read my previous comments. I did make my opinion based on the rules. ;) Also, I suggest you start giving your own opinion rather than that of someone else, it'd be nice to have a reply to the points I made, not have random inaccurate statements splattered all over the forum.
@pinto89100 I live in Europe, in Europe Plushenko is the God!!! After the men's free, there has been so many protests raised all over the world. And Europoll showed that 70% of Europeans think Plushenko should be given the Gold! That's why Barcelona conference revised rule change after this.If they think Lysacek rightly won, why do they make rule-revision?
@dorca000 Also, you're telling me that hshim said Evan could not rotate a single jump? Well you have to go tell him to get the shit out of his eyes, slow down the video, and count. He also needs to take a look at Plushenko's poor landings, something that happened SEVERAL times in the program. If things like that happen, GOE scores should be low. Despite this, Plushenko's were not. It's a joke that Evan and Plush tied on the technical mark.
@pinto89100 What do you mean by low? Plushenko's GOEs were low enough. Deduction on the 3A, 0 GOE for the 3Lz-3T combo,etc. I believe you can't make the difference between a poor landing and a cheated jump. Why do you think that they called him a genius of the jumps? Because he can LAND even the poorest jumps, with the worst position in the air!!!!
"No one brought up controversy like Lysacek in FS. Whay do you think the reason? Simply Plushenko whining? Plushenko in this video says Lysacek even didn't attempt 3a-3t, which skaters did before quad attempt. Jump is the basic and foremost element in FS history. Transitions? This is not ice-dancing! Galina Zmeskaya, Elvis Stojko, Tarasova, Philiippe Candeleoro, Katarin Witt(indirectly), Sasha Cohen said that they cannot unerstand the result. LOL! "
@dorca000 Ha! Sasha Cohen said NOTHING of that sort. I saw the accused interview and she never even gave her opinion. She spoke in 3rd person the entire time.
@dorca000 No one brought controversy like that of Evan winning the gold? Did your little friend forget about Salt Lake City and the pairs controversy? Also I suggest you start giving your own opinion and prove that you're not some brain washed vegetable that can be easily manipulated to think anything 'cause someone says this and that. Go out and do the research for yourself, and maybe you'll find that the so called expert does not exactly have a decent argument.
@dorca000 Here's what former Russian pair world champion, Irina Rodnina, had to say, “Evgeni had one big advantage - the quadruple jump - but at the same time, in the performance of our champion, there were enough small errors that weren't noticeable to all. Lysacek, meanwhile, had a winning appearance, a balanced program, all elements carefully woven into his program, logically. And Evgeni, it was especially obvious in the second half, was skating from jump to jump.”
@SimonaCB It seems you can't tell the difference between a fully rotated jump and a cheated jump. And no, Plushenko's GOE marks were not low enough.There should have been -s where I saw +s. Plushenko may have been a genius before on his jumps but that night he quite frankly sucked. Yeah it was impressive that he could land some of those horrifically titled jumps, but his landings were far from impressive.
@SimonaCB You obviously can't tell the difference between a fully rotated jump and a jump that is cheated. Good for him that Plushenko can land shitty jumps, however I would be more impressed if the landings weren't as shitty as they were in the air. His GOE scores were too high. He could barely land a triple lutz w/o wobbling. Something that happened SEVERAL times in the program, yet his GOE marks did not reflect on that. Evan was more well rounded, had more difficult set up, and was cleaner.
@pinto89100 Evan is far from Evgeni's talent. Evgeni is unique, so special, charismatic, he is the God on ice. Evan? Evan is mediocre, his skating is pretty, no more. In Europe and Asia he is totally irrelevant. He hasn't fan outside NA. To the americans must be accepted that this win controversial forever. The majority of FS fan support Evgeni. You don't know, because your media didn't say about this. In NA celebrated the new hero, who beat PLUSHENKO. But this victory is so pitiful....
@lala630312 What makes you think I care? I don't. Whether Plushenko is more talented or not than Evan is your opinion. It doesn't mean that Plushenko can land more than half of his jumps poorly and still win, I know in your perfect world that's how you wish it would go, but it doesn't. Evan's skating is pretty? Well hun, in skating that's not exactly a bad thing. ;) I'm not a fan of either, but lets's face the facts here, Plush's jumps were back to back to back- (cont)
@pinto89100 You don't understand! Only american think that Evan was the best! You read the forum, but you read only american forum! Is Plushenko only jumper? this is the most stupid thing what i heard in my life, You are a parrot, you repeat what the heard in biased America. This is an american stupid sztereotype. You said, you isn't a Fs fan. I'm in my whole life. I know Plushenko's every programs. I recommend you, look at the programs, and you wouldn't speak stupid stereotypie( continue)
@lala630312 No, I don't just read American forums...You only have to go on their profiles to see the variety in nationality. And no, it's not just Americans who believe Plushenko deserved the gold. The little delusion a lot of you Plushenko fans(notice I didn't say ALL) is starting to creep me out. Also, you misunderstand. I didn't say I wasn't a FS fan, I just said I don't like Evan or Plushenko very much, they don't have the qualities in a skater I like. I go for Daisuke or Jeremy more.
--and yet he couldn't land them w/o wobbling. What makes you think that that is a superior skate to Evan's which was cleaner with a more DIFFICULT setup? Yes, this will be debated for years to come, but what your deluded self doesn't seem to get is that there are PLENTY of people that side with Evan. (Take a look at forums all over the internet) From the comments I've read, Plushenko is losing credibility as we speak. You have to accept this. Don't fool yourself.
@pinto89100 We know that there are plenty of people that side with Evan, just like there are plenty of people who side with Plushenko, that´s why the result is debatable!
@pinto89100 It didn´t happened SEVERAL times, he had problems only with the 3A and the 3Lz-2T combo and he received the proper deductions. A sloppy landing doesn´t mean a cheated jump. The other jumps weren´t as good as usual, that´s why his highest GOE was 1.00.
Let´s remember that judges gave GOE to Lysacek for a wrong-edged flip , how low could they score a jump that wasn´t even cheated?
@SimonaCB No, Plushenko had trouble landing BOTH of his 3Lzs, as well as both of his axels. I never said that a cheated jump is the same as a sloppy landing, nor did I ever say that they deserved the same deduction. What I'm saying is that there were numerous jumps that were not executed to the level that the GOE scored said they were. In that account, they were too high.
@SimonaCB Also, if Evan were to have received the deductions (because I will say his edge was questionable) Plushenko's jumps were still below what Evan did as far as execution, and we must keep in mind the transitions, and the fact that Plush's jumps were back to back. Evan actually left more jumps at the end which was a smart move to pick up bonus points.
And yes, this is debatable. I completely agree that there are people out there that side with Plush obviously. No problem here with me.
@lala630312 No, I am not ignorant or biased. Pretty much shows your maturity when you jump to insults like that just because I have a different opinion. Showing me links isn't going to make me change my mind either. You seem to be under the impression I haven't been watching Plushenko until 2010, which is not true at all. Like I said, if you like Plushenko better than Evan, that's fine with me. But I still have yet to be convinced that Plushenko deserved the Gold in Vancouver.
@pinto89100 I'm just saying that there is a lot of good skaters but Plushenko is more than a good skater. He will be in the history book of FS (Scott Hamilton). He is always exciting. Sometimes funny, sometimes passionate, and he has awesome charisma and adorable personality. He is a magically attractive person and he has impact on people. I think America is too far away. Europe and Asia, he is the God. Have you seen the vid from Japan? The Japanese adore him, he had/has 40 shows.
@lala630312 Okay... It's nice that you find Plushenko so attractive, and so inspiring, but may I know, how this has anything to do with the programs Plushenko performed in Vanvouver? I will answer your one question though, whether I find him artistic or not. I never really understood the appeal Plushenko has in artistry. I just really don't. There are many other skaters I could say that inspire me 200 folds more than Plush does, but each to their own opinion, I guess.
@lala630312 Lala, Plushenko has fans in America, believe me. Just because they don´t post on forums or Youtube doesn´t mean they don´t exist. Someone told me that his american friends even they don´t like him are dying of curiosity too see him live. That´s what matters, people who want to see your shows not some anonymous posts on a forum.
@SimonaCB Yes, i know, because on Evgeni's website read many american post, who begged to Evgeni go skating in America. They said it was anywhere to be on the show, they travel there.(From Hawai LOL!)
@pinto89100 Daisuke said about him in 2006 on japanese Tv :"oh, my god,, there was a God,,",
"I felt amazing aura,, he couldn't hide it" I accept other opinions i just hate it, when americans say that Plushy isn't artistry. I think, they never watched his Moonlight Sonata, Tango and flamenco, Adagio or Chopin program in Korea 2009 ect. Look at those vids and answer me. Is he not artistic?
@pinto89100 Oh i forgot about this: /watch?v=6-7c-9GqE3Q&feature=related
this is his new program, he made to Korea.(Mack the knife) The show was june. The koreans were crazy for him. He recieved many many gift. Evan? he received polite applause. i really sorry for Evan..
@pinto89100 Do you know, that after Oly more 6000 people registered to a link, they wrote name, city, and jub( from all over the world), who wanted the revision of outcome? I think, no. Many people wrote directly to ISU and IOC, and wanted the revision. Evgeni is most popular skater of the world. The peoples crazy for him. Because of this matter, Barcelona conference revised rule change. If they think Lysacek rightly won, why do they make rule-revision?
what no dislike here? plushenko should won
cyberhrc 2 months ago
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lol Russians are little cry babies.
chicagoguy19 8 months ago
shut up all of you he can do a quad toe triple toe and he is the best. dont be silly youre stupid if u think evan is bad
vzzhou 8 months ago
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WIKIPEDIA:"QUADRUPLE JUMP CONTROVERSY" !!!!!
It is worth reading!
dorca000 9 months ago
If Joseph Inman doesn't send 60 mails to judges....I think Plushenko was gold medalist at the Vancouver Olympic!
Kiki3141592 9 months ago 12
I love Plushenko!!!!!
Lilla0423 1 year ago 3
lisasek eres un ladron, ratero, apestas y eres un tramposo igual que todos los yanquis
jani1109 1 year ago
He looks like a toreador already expecting attacks of angry figure scatting fans.
nc11000 1 year ago 19
PLUSHENKO IS THE FIGURE SKATING!!!
Lilla0423 1 year ago 4
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Plushenko should have been penalized for the mullet and for blowing kisses at the judges, Biotch is lucky to have made the podium at all.
beeharbour 1 year ago
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P. Chan:
“I kind of took the side that if you did a clean program without the quad you can still win and you can be comfortable,” Chan said. “But to be honest, it’s a whole different level to be doing quads, a whole different level of confidence.”
“I understand now. I’m on the other side of the wall. It’s a level of excitement I’m talking about. You just elevate your program to that level of excitement where everyone else who has done quads, like Plushenko, has that excitement."
lala630312 1 year ago
Plushenko was the best!!! Yes he is really the Emperor on ice!!!!
Lilla0423 1 year ago 7
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Plushenko is the Emperor on ice. I will forever love him.
akaruineko 1 year ago
Plushenko is the Emperor on ice. I will forever love him.
akaruineko 1 year ago 30
Was Plushenko´s program so bad like some of Lysacek´s defenders try to convince us? If we listen to different commentators (NBC, British Eurosport, France, etc) we can see that some of them couldn´t say who the winner was and some of them thought that Plushenko´s performance was enough to win the gold. If someone knows commentators who said ¨Lysacek was head and shoulders above the rest, nobody can touch his gold medal" , please tell us who they were.
SimonaCB 1 year ago 6
Evan is not a better all-round skater because he doesn´t have Lambiel´s spins, Takahashi´s footwork and beautiful transitions or Plushenko´s jumping technique. Not to mention that he is no John Curry in terms of artistry and he doesn´t even have the amazing choreographies that Yagudin use to have. His victory and his second place after the SP were a personal preference of the judges, not even the biased NBC commentators had the guts to declare him winner before seeing Plushenko´s marks.
SimonaCB 1 year ago 5
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get. over. it.
annawalsh159 1 year ago
Right now the biggest stars of FS are the girls, Mao Asada and Yu-Na Kim and the major fan base is in Japan and Korea, just look at how many shows they have.
Without Plushenko the Vancouver Oly would have been very boring, Lysacek was the reigning W. Ch. and the GP finalist and their "battle" was perfect for the promotion of FS and of men´s event. Why was ISU so angry because Plushenko skipped Worlds?
SimonaCB 1 year ago 3
ISU are interested only in $. They don´t care about sport´s future, about who´s the best, etc. They are interested only in increasing the FS fan base, wich means more $, that´s why they change the rules so often and they try to please all the fans, from America, Japan, Europe, etc. They gave to American fans what they´ve been expecting for such a long time, an Olympic champion. Then they changed the rules because they saw that the Japaneses and Europeans were very disappointed after Vancouver.
SimonaCB 1 year ago 3
Undoubtedly Evan Lysacek star and he's very talented.
BUT!
First, it is not an Olympic Champion.
All the world's geniuses figure skating such as Stanislav Zhuk, Tatiana Tarasova, Valentin Piseev, say that three leaders consist only of those who make the quadruple.
Then the question!
What the hell does Lysacek in the top three and even more so in the first place.
Pure driving - this is not an argument.
Elements! That's the main thing. Quaternary to his credit there.
Selfish170 1 year ago
Like most people around the globe are saying, MEN’S FIGURE SKATING BECAME A JOKE AFTER THAT NIGHT. The judging has been biased but it's unsurprising. Since Salt Lake people are very suspicious about the judges, and this just confirmed it! THIS WAS A FULL BLOWN ROBBERY!!!! and another reason why pretty girl like me won´t be watching this junk any more….
jewelgirl91 1 year ago 5
Plushenko is best skater at the Vancouver and ever forever. Lysacek is the worst winner ever.
catnabiya 1 year ago 40
Now I resume : Lysa's most diff technical tricks was the same than Y Kim did plus the other easy stuff was performed WELL with one level higher of one spin and one level higher of one step sequence than Plush (judges decide the level of difficulty), for except his two combo-deduction. Plush performed a trick NOONE DID plus the other easy stuff was performed WELL WITH POSITIVE GOE for except one single jump deduction.
catnabiya 1 year ago 3
So both skaters didn't fail any of their easy elements. BUTone guy can do a difficult trick that another guy can't (not able to do because of his no good physical condition). So first guy is better. Sorry, plain and simple.. Technically, Plushenko is better, artistically, according to jury, too. So it's the End of all Lysa's defender’s augments.
catnabiya 1 year ago 7
@catnabiya Did Yu-Na Kim land 8 triples, with 2 of them being 3As? Hilarious that you would actually compare their programs.
pinto89100 1 year ago
@pinto89100 If you want to argue, at least, you MUST SUGGEST NUMERICAl STATISCS AND OBJECTIVE PERSPECTIVES rather than repeating same illogical nonsenses! You keep saying that Lysa had clean jumps: why so he got two combo-deductions? Forget a quad, my friend: Evan's 1st 3A is ¼ pre-rotated and the 2ond one: - GOE ( If Lysa had not executed jumps poorly, he would've not gotten deduction. Bad execution decides a deduction What a sophistry!) Evan's 3F was from the wrong-edge but wasn't deducted.
catnabiya 1 year ago
@pinto,Seconde, Plush's LP was full of transitions, transitions are presented between all his later elements and score reflected it- IT WAS HIS EVERAGE TR SCORE 7.25 –more higher transition marks is inconsistent with his level of skating=quad-skaters loose on TR (but logically, they have to be MORE rewarded for the quad because it's more difficult element) In SP judges put to Plush low TR marks as well as they underscored his perfect 4-3! Noone can deny biased judgment in SP
catnabiya 1 year ago
@pinto Third, noone can deny that Lysa skated girls programs : female players can do the same routine, Kim and Mao. Forget the quad ! Lysa jumped two ugly 3 axel-a jump that used to separate the men from the ladies (until Midori Ito jumped it). And now the women are constantly striving to surpass themselves and their predecessors with technically more challenging programs. Tell me, please, why aren't the men doing the same thing?? Lysa is the worst Oly champ World ever seen.
catnabiya 1 year ago
@catnabiya Look, Evan's program really wasn't that much easier than Evgeny's. In fact, the only thing that was at all different about the programs (in relation to what jumps they did) was that Plushenko did a Quad-toe-triple-toe, evan did a triple-flip-double-toe-double-loop and Plushenko did a triple-lutz-DOUBLE-toe and Lysacek did a triple-lutz-TRIPLE-toe, so there was even a combination in Lysacek's program that was MORE difficult than Plushenko's, so you can't really say validly (continued)
Luukashist 1 year ago
@Luukashist Yes, Evan's program WAS really that much easier than Evgeny's. Do you want to know how much easier? Every figure skater and FS profs knows that mastering a quad take 50% your practice- time; Watch again what Stojko said : "If you take out a quad, it makes the whole program at least 50% easier to do." He also said: "There are junior skaters who can skate that same (Lysa's) program ( Elvis is right, check it out at ISU official, at LP protocols of "Junior World Championships ",)
catnabiya 1 year ago
@Lukashis It's funny to read how Evan's defenders would like to see Plush performing a 3Lz-3T (as did Lysa) loaded to his Quad-Triple, while Lysacek was able to perform only freaking 3-DOUBLE-DOUBLE loaded to his most daring 3LZ-3T (Y Kim does it better). I will tell you that 3Lz-3T is junior level combo and was performed brilliantly by many other skaters at Vancouver (they are still very far from podium), while 4-3 was even not attempt by anyone else except Plush and that is in both programs!
catnabiya 1 year ago
@catnabiya if a triple lutz triple toe is a junior level combination then why did Plushenko not do it, hm? Explain that, and why he had not three-jump combinations. Really, the only thing that made Plushenko's program any more difficult was the Quad toe-triple toe and even with that his transitions and footwork weren't at all difficult, I mean he HAS no transtions whatsoever
Luukashist 1 year ago
@Luukashist Why Plushenko didn't do a 3Lz-3T loaded to his 4-3? Because it's much more easer element than 4-3 combo and Plush's opening combination was 4-3. Quad in combo is THE EVIDENCE OF THE HIGH CLASS OF SKATER. Mediocre skaters perform only triple-triple and triple-double-double jump-combinations (how pathetic..) Maybe you can tell me why Lysa performed junior/female level 3Lz-3T as opening combo, hm? If 30 y. a (before quad) best skaters had to use 3A-3T as opening jump's combination.
catnabiya 1 year ago
@catnabiya Then why didn't Plushenko do a 3A-3T after his quad?
Luukashist 1 year ago
@Luukashist Why Plush didn't do 3-3? French B. Joubert gives good explanation: from "to-quad-or-not-to-quad: "...Brian Joubert maintains a quad should be worth more and worth the risk of performing one in competition. He says, "There is pressure when you try a quad and there is pressure after it, because it is more difficult to do the next jump.".... Now answer to me why Lysa didn't perform one another 3-3, hm? -he didn't do any high difficulty move at the beginning of his program.
catnabiya 1 year ago 2
@catnabiya A quad-toe-triple toe alone doesn't make evidence of a high class skater, Plushenko is not a very good all-round skater. Really his only talent is jumping, his skating skills aren't that good, he has no transitions and his idea of artistry is stopping and making faces. And then because Lysacek beat him fair and square he just goes about complaining. Does that honestly sound like a high-class skater to you?
Luukashist 1 year ago
@Luukashist She is talking about GOE since Lysacek won in the free by receiving more GOE than Plushenko, with his wrong-flip edge not deducted and other triples imperfect as well. I know you admire skaters with transitions but it is unfair to evaluate "skating skill" based on "transition". All skaters do not have to imitate Adam Rippon, Nobunari, Takahashi, Chan,etc. There has been many programs artistic without transitions: Yagudin, Urmanov, Witt, Plushenko, Joubert, Baiul, Candeloro,etc.
hshim80 1 year ago
@Luukashist I understand why there are always so many lying at Evan’s defender’s comments (same than in US media) about Plush's Oly LP; Just because otherwise you can't justify win of a silly performance over the more difficult one. My friend, Plush HAD BETTER ARTISTRY AND SKATING SKILL MARKS; his talent is not only jumping because Lysa simply did'’t overscored Plush at PrCompScore. And Plush is better all-round skater because he received better marcs for overall Performance and Execution.
catnabiya 1 year ago 4
@catnabiya no, I'm sorry, of COURSE it sounds like a high-class skater, because Plushenko did the quad that clearly just makes him so far ahead of everyone else! No matter that he had no transitions, ugly footwork, no real artistry and half of his program was crossovers anyway, none of that matters!!! The only thing that matters is jumps, maybe in figure skating from now on the men should just go out and perform a quad and then get off and it can be judged that way?
Luukashist 1 year ago
@Luukashist Luka! Luka! Don't be ridiculous! Do you think that Laysa is better skater than Plushy? LOL! Lysa also don't belives, that he is the better skater!! Just glad he got a gold medal. Plushenko will be in FS history books . I can't believe, you're a skater and you not see,That Evan is how boring, gauche and non- charismatic! Although it's sure he very much bent to his knees. LOL! This is the most important aspect. LOL!
lala630312 1 year ago
@lala630312 my name's not Luka, it's Luke
Luukashist 1 year ago
@Luukashist I'm sorry. Luke is indeed better than the Luka. I was fooled by your nickname. But i remember your video, in the title really was Luke. As Luke Skywalker ....(I think, Luka Italian name)
lala630312 1 year ago
@Luukashist "No real artistry for Plushenko" (?) This is the score on the "artistry part" of PCS in the free
1. Peformance/Execution 8.8(Plu)/8.5(Lys) 2. Choreography/Composition 8.2(Plu)/8.35(Lysa) 3. Interpretation 8.75(Plu)/8.3(Lysa).
On what basis are you calling Plushenko not artistic? Isn't it your subjective opinion?
hshim80 1 year ago
@Luuka, And what is about short program? What jump's combination in Lysacek's SP that was MORE difficult than Plushenko's? What did he get such high score for after the short ? There were no extra jumps in second half and wonderful spins level-4 difficulty in the Short (it is too short LOL) yet he got just 0,55 points less.
My dear friend, whole World saw it: Judges started cheating at the Short program!
catnabiya 1 year ago
@catnabiya I'll just say this to you: GO AND LOOK UP HOW THE SCORING SYSTEM WORKS because you obviously don't know anything about how figure skating is scored
Luukashist 1 year ago
@catnabiya Yeah, sure, you keep believing that, just because Elvis Stoijko is a skater doesn't make him the most intelligent person on Earth. Maybe it took up 50% of HIS practice time, but not for all skaters. And the reason Evan did no quad was because he'd had an injury to his left foot, not because he was afraid of it.
Luukashist 1 year ago
@Luukashist And the reason Evan did no quad was because HE NEVER LAND A SINGLE QUAD IN ANY INTERNATIONAL COMPETITION, and an injury to his left foot isn't an excuse (it's only prove our point that Lysa isn’t a champion material) Evan attempted a quad with seating on the ice at 2010 USA nationals. Was his foot broken between 2010 nationals and 2010 Vancouver? No excuses, my friend: Lysa is a Smart Coward not a smart athlete.
catnabiya 1 year ago
@Luukashist Stojko is 7 times Canadian champion, 3 times World Champion and 2 times Oly Silver medalist. I don't need other proves that he knows better than you what he is talking about and, as a FS Expert and Analys,t he knows better than you how judging system works.
catnabiya 1 year ago
@Luuka, I live in Europe and read and heard many Euro and Asian experts that said Plush's two programs were more difficult and more ambitious and he should have won (Canadian E. Stojko, French Ph Condeliro, Ph Pelissier, J Pons (FS commentators and experts), Chinese Lui Chen, coach of Shen & Zhao, Turkish figure skater Kutay Eryolda and they did it in the media &press) Name me one single non American FS expert or analysts who said that right man won.
catnabiya 1 year ago
@catnabiya Irina Rodnina said she'd hoped that Plushenko would win but said that he made too many small mistakes and that Evan's program was more logically woven together
Luukashist 1 year ago
@Luukashist You have to cite Rodnina complitely, my friend. She said to SovSportNews."..Yes, Plushenko struggled, no doubt, and even with that skating could be a champion. Libra swayed, Evgeni not lost, the American did not win, but turn things in our direction, leadership of the national federation failed." - She also said that "Evgeni’s silver medal is a colossal result... But if the Federation had stepped in, he would have taken home the gold".
catnabiya 1 year ago
@catnabiya if you think that doing ONE JUMP makes an ENTIRE PROGRAM 50% harder, then you're sadly mistaken, I'm sorry doing one more difficult jump does not make an entire program that much harder, because once the jump is done, it's done and over with and it has no effect on the rest of the program
Luukashist 1 year ago
@Luukashist "Quad done and over with and it has no effect on the rest of the program?" Really? Go to see again( bellow) what French B Joubert, Lysa's temporary coach Tarasova, sport journalist Geoffrey, J. E. Goff, a physics professor at Virginia's Lynchburg College and author of "Gold Medal Physics" said about effect of quad on the rest of the program-go educate yourself before posting like complete moron about physical effects of quadruple jump.
catnabiya 1 year ago
@catnabiya that Evan's program was a ladies' program, especially because you never see (except for Mao Asada) a woman doing two triple axels, let alone one. Lysacek's spins and footwork were far beyond Plushenko, who did spins that a club skater (someone who's never even competed internationally) could do
Luukashist 1 year ago
@Luukashist Evan's program was a ladies' program, especially because I saw a woman doing triple axels (sins Midori Ito jumped it at 1988): Tonya Harding, Ludmila Nelidina, Yukari Nakano and Mao Asada have succeeded it in completing; Evan's program was a ladies' program, especially because I saw a woman doing Evan’'s most difficult leap: Irina Slutskaya and Y Kim ( she consistently landed 3Lz-3T at 2009-10 season)
catnabiya 1 year ago
@Luukash You can't say that Lysacek's spins were FAR beyond only because all 3 his spins got level 4, and Evgeni's one spin got level 3 and two others received level four -difference on those Lysa/Plush spins is very small (0.4+0.1 points). If you know enough about the current COP, then differences between level 3 and 4 are solely arbitrary and unclear according to ISU rule. Judges declare level of spins.
catnabiya 1 year ago
@Luukash, You can't say either that Lysacek's footwork were FAR beyond Plushenko's because Plush OVERSCORED Lysa on one of his step sequences. Anyway, If Lysa had done the 4-3T like Evgeny, then it would be OK to judge the difference between them on one level of a spin and step sequences. But when Evan had a problematic 3A and VERY PROBLEMATIC TRIPLE-FLIP and no quad, let alone a quad-triple combo.
catnabiya 1 year ago
@Luukash, A subjective grade (judges decide level of difficulty of spin and steps) should not be enough to trump a technically superior program. A subjective grade of easy elements should determinate the winner only if 2 programs are technically equivalent and skated technically equivalently. Not when there is a clear gap: 4-3 combo at both programs!
If 4-3 combo is not everything, why one level of a step sequence or a spin is ???
catnabiya 1 year ago
@catnabiya It was two step sequences and a spin. And Plushenko's program wasn't at all technically superior except for the quad toe-triple toe, Lysacek's footwork was much more difficult and executed much better with more fine edges and better knee bend etc. And Plushenko's spins were quite simple
Luukashist 1 year ago
@Luukashist Are you English speaking American? Plushenko got 3.30 +1.00 GOE in his Sist3 while Lysa got 3.30+ 0.90. So for one of their two step sequence, PLUSH GOT MORE POINT THAN EVAN; It's understandable now? So you can't say that Evan's footwork was "much more difficult and executed much better than Plushenko’s". Go to official Vancouver site and check the detailed judging sheet.
catnabiya 1 year ago
@catnabiya You're only talking about the grades of execution, Evan's sequence was a level 4 while Plushenko's was a level 3
Luukashist 1 year ago
@Luukashist No No, my friend I'm notonly talking about the grades of execution, Evan's sequence SiSt3 was a level 3 as well as Plushenko's. Check it out.
catnabiya 1 year ago
@catnabiya if you think the judges declare the level of the elements then you clearly don't have any clue how this system works, it's the TECHNICAL PANEL who do that, they aren't judges, they determine the levels of all of the elements
Luukashist 1 year ago
@Luukashist Try a little harder, my friend. Everyone knows, those technical panel is the humans being, they have a judge's status, they declare arbitrary level of difficulty of a spin & step sequence. There are not clean standards in ISU rule-book for judging the level of those elements, it's subjective. ( prove me the contrary.) So such easy and difficulty-subjective elements can't determine the winner.
catnabiya 1 year ago
@catnabiya Yes there are very clear-cut standards for how to judge a level of a spin or footwork, once again I'll say that you clearly have not clue how the system works. And if you want me to prove that it's subjective, why don't YOU prove that it is? You haven't given me one valid piece of evidence that the assigning of levels of difficulty is actually subjective
Luukashist 1 year ago
@Luukashist Of couse, I will give to you one valid piece of evidence that the assigning of levels of difficulty is actually subjective: If you look /Score.pdf at ISU official site, you will see that Plush's spin FSSp (judged level 3 at Vancouver) was judged level 4 at three previous events Plush won this year. That was exactly same spin (check it out on the videos), yet the level was scored higher. Lysa's same stepsequence for example was scored lower (level3) at USA national than at Vanc
catnabiya 1 year ago 2
@catnabiya OK, so 4 women in all of history. BOY, SO MANY women doing triple axels, my gosh!!! And they ALWAYS do one in the short and two in the free, right? NO. And if women can do a 3Lz-3T then why didn't Plushenko do it, hm?
Luukashist 1 year ago
@Luukashist
lol, agree what you said, you can consider Evan as a rare woman doing triple axel. If he skated for women team, cause what he did is = to what women figure skaters do, performed only triple and double jumps, he may be should have won faire and scare. lol!!!
jewelgirl91 1 year ago 4
@pinto, You keep saying that second half of Plush's program was FREE , so can you tell me, please, how at the first part of his program Plush had a time to do the same number of elements than Lysa did for the both? HaHaHa! Is Lysa sooo SLOW!( exactly! That what Stojko had said!) Evan did two combo at second half, Plush did one-OK, but Evan didn't do anything hard at the beginning for have the tired legs! Plush did! So you have no point here.
catnabiya 1 year ago
@pinto,Forth, are you calling one level difference on one steps and on one spin the OVERAL BETTER performance? What judges made Lysa to win was give to him level 4 for one of his step sequence and same for one of his spin= so the judges pulled Evan's technical score up on simple things. It's a joke to make win one level of a spin & a step sequence against a quad-triple in MEN's event!!! That is why it's so not convinsing & controversial!
catnabiya 1 year ago
@catnabiya Was Plush better on his jumps? Yes; Was Plush able to perform level 4 on steps and spin? Yes (two of his spins and one of his two step-saquences were level 4) Was Lysa do 4-3? No; Hwo is better technicaly? Plush.
Who was better artistically? Not Lysa.
So in fact, Plush had better overall performance;
Plushenko was robbed!
catnabiya 1 year ago
@pinto, The Olympics had always been viewed as the event where athletes come to push the boundaries of their sport, take risks and set new records.Olympic Champion must to be the TOP of this sport!, If your suggestion about not take a risk for Lysa on Quad is correct, so why someone just does 16-17 Clean, Flawless, Breathtaking doubles with Grace and Elegance and become a Oly Champion? Is Lysa Olympic champion? HaHaHa! Can you understand that Man's F S can be never more degraded?!
catnabiya 1 year ago 3
@pinto, And Yes, Quad makes a program automatically difficult! Do you forget what Elvis Stojko said?-"If you take out a quad, it makes the whole program at least 50% easier to do." While at least the top ten skaters dhad the nice transitions, difficult spins and intricate footwork, only one landed quad-triple in both programs at Vancouver.
My dear friend, your champion is fake, so fake.
catnabiya 1 year ago 11
@catnabiya Also, I already explained how Evan's program was harder than Plushenko's many times, still you only see the quad. You seem incapable of grasping that the quad does not automatically make the program harder, it is just a hard element. To you, it's only the number of times that a skater spins in the air that defines difficulty in figure skating, there is nothing else that can surpass a quad. You don't take into consideration doing harder combos on tired legs, you don't take into (cont)
pinto89100 1 year ago
@catnabiya -consideration the transitions, you describe them as if they are meaningless steps in a figure skating program, which really causes me to doubt if you actually know what they are, and how intricate, creative steps and moves going into jumps raises the difficulty. You don't take into consideration the choreography, the way the elements are balanced in a program. You completely ignore my points of Plush's last minute of his program being empty, filled with him doing nothing but posing.
pinto89100 1 year ago
@catnabiya Yes, it is disappointing that the men's champion lacked the quad, but no one else had a superior program to snatch the gold from him. Takahashi fell on his quad, Joubert and Jeremy Abbott (who had been my favorite to win the gold medal) both had meltdowns, and you already know what I think about Plushenko. Evan was the only skater that had the best program OVERALL; clean jumps, full of transitions, great choreography, great spins, and his highlight: the footwork.
pinto89100 1 year ago
So what is the current champion? He can't quad, not graceful, stiff, awkward, hasn't charisma, isn't special, boring. Neither athlete nor artistry! What a champion!!! In Europe and Asia absolute irrelevant. Congrat ISU!! Pitiful champion forever! I watched the Fs in my entire life,( i'm not young) but such insignificant champion i never saw. I think, this is the male Fs regress!!!!! In my country many peoples began to watch the Fs because of Evgeni. Solely! Evan is absolute irrelevant!
lala630312 1 year ago 47
@lala630312 Here's a tissue. Now go sit over there on the losers bench. Loser.
camhirtle 1 year ago
@camhirtle i think i will be less sad being such a bad loser as Plushenko than being such a “good” (not trying a quadruple jump, real sissy-bo,y face-in-his-hands uncontrollable sobbing) winner lol
TraidBoard01 1 year ago
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lala630312 1 year ago
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@camhirtle PLUSHENKO IS THE FIGURE SKATING!!!Here's an eye-glasses! Plushy was the best!
Lilla0423 1 year ago
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@camhirtle Here's an eyes-glasses. PLUSHENKO IS THE FIGURE SKATING!!! Plushy was the best!!!!
Lilla0423 1 year ago
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@camhirtle Here's an eyes-glasses. PLUSHENKO IS THE FIGURE SKATING!!! He was the best!!!!
Lilla0423 1 year ago
Lambiel for example. He is definitely the world best spinner and no one can doubt his artistry. But he lost because of his struggling with the quad (he was recovering from an injury just as Lysacek did, by the way). Respects to Lambiel, Tokahashi, Joubert and all the other "losers"! Without you, soon skaters will be competing at drawing figure 8 at the Olympics. No respect to such champion Evan Lysacek!
catnabiya 1 year ago
@catnabiya Exactly. And because of that injury Lambiel struggled on his quads, and because of that, he lost his chance for a medal. EXACTLY my point. Evan knew he couldn't take such risk under this system, skated a clean if conservative program, but it was just enough to take the Gold.
pinto89100 1 year ago
@pinto89100 Exactly! So, what you're saying is that since he was injured, he had special treatment from the judges allowing him not to perform the Quad and getting the high scores (equal to quad-skater) regardless. According to you, if Lysa'll get next time more serious injury he can perform 16-17 flawless doubles with grace and elegance( and some spins of cause) and became a Oly champ. But who does feel respect for him, pinto?
catnabiya 1 year ago 3
@catnabiya No, that is not what I am saying, AT ALL. You just don't get this system, do you? You just don't get that the quad is not a required element, that by putting more jumps after the half point, HARDER JUMPS, you are garnering as many points as you can. Plushenko may have had a harder element, but Evan had the harder program. He had harder jump combos later in his program, he had more transitions (whether you think so or not, these DO make the program harder, and do raise the (cont)
pinto89100 1 year ago
@pinto89100 Lambiel didn´t lose the gold medal because of the quad, all his jumps and combos were deducted, except a 2A and a 3S, if I remember well. Lambiel must go for quads because he can´t jump 3A, without quads he can´t be a competitive skater.
SimonaCB 1 year ago
@SimonaCB Lambiel got -1.60 GOE for his first 4T, then -1.92 for his 4T+2T and one more combo, his 3F+2T+2T was given minus GOE. Although you are right about Lambiel needing the quad because he has always struggled on his 3A's. I was unfair when I wrote that comment. Although it still proves my point. Evan could have easily lost any chance for a medal if he fell on a quad, and skaters like Jeremy, Brian, Takahashi had landed theirs and been clean throughout the rest of the program.
pinto89100 1 year ago
@catnabiya level of difficulty.) My point was that doing the quad would have been a foolish move to do seeing how 1) he hasn't done it consistently enough recently, and 2) because of his foot injury. Lambiel had an injury, he went for it, and look where it got him. You brought up the fact that he at least tried the quad on an injury, but hun, he wasn't exactly going for the gold was he? In the end that risk lost him any chance of winning a medal. Exactly my point, which you didn't get at all.
pinto89100 1 year ago
To every americans: Evgeni has/had 18 shows( 40 programs) in Japan. Evgeni ordered cargo transportation, it is now 500 kg(? ponds) gifts, but to Evgeni has yet come 6 shows. I think, he is only jumper..LOL!!!LOL!!! And he is cocky.., therefore received the many gifts....LOL!
lala630312 1 year ago
Plushenko is the real winner in Vancouver!
dorca000 1 year ago
@SGhockeychika4 I love Johnny, but too much to me, too feminine, I like to see the difference between man and woman. Plushenko is great, because pretended it that the FS can do manly, yet artistically. Therefore, the FS fans went nuts for it all over the world. You bored, when he watched the Hafanana program? I watched many times, and i always enjoy it. I always laugh. Have you ever seen the Sex bomb program of Plushy? I think, that program is the most-watched FS show ever.
lala630312 1 year ago
@SGhockeychika4 Yes, i know. She is american citizens, and she is so great, and beautiful.
lala630312 1 year ago
@SGhockeychika4 You calm down! We admire your big athletes. We know ,and adore your athletes!!! They are our favorite! + Carl Lewis, Michael Jordan!!!!!, Michael Johnson, Jeremy Wariner, Michel Kwan, Armstrong, ect., ect.,!!! ( Nastia Lukin, she was born in Moscow!) But Evan's victory is controversial. You don't forget the sport isn't policy!!
lala630312 1 year ago
@SGhockeychika4 Good point! And not only the Americans, I´ve watched them too!!!!!
SimonaCB 1 year ago
These are stupid arguments over whether or not Lysacek deserved to win, I dont think he has won a gold medal in the olympics before, while Plushenko has had 3 medals there, come on! Plushenko has had his moment to shine 3 TIMES. People have just got to let it go. Lysacek won, Plushenko came 2nd. End of.
annawalsh159 1 year ago
I send to everybody, who think, the Plushenko isn't the most popular skater.....watch?v=hhgCIV4PY8c
dorca000 1 year ago
Reading all this bullshit reminds me of the Yuna/Mao thing.
"Korea paid judges, blah blah blah"
Except the score and move on.
XOFrankieroXO 1 year ago
@XOFrankieroXO The NY Times article is fact, no bullshit.
lala630312 1 year ago
About the whole Evan/Plushenko disagreement: They're both great skaters.It's agreed that the quad jump is extremely hard,and I think he should have gotten more credit for it.Even so, all of his other jumps were poor in quality.They were more sloppy in the air-if you watch some of them in slo motion you can see that he's tilted in the wrong direction.Overall, Evan was cleaner and had more flow. That's what the judges awarded.Besides, didn't Evan have an injury and b/c of it cudnt do the quad?
RubikCuber1 1 year ago
@RubikCuber1 Plushy has many injury... You know, Evan won with the junior level program, and the top girl skaters also can do it. What the difference? Laysa said: "this just happens to be a jump that's too dangerous for me to do" The US media fake excuses: poor Lysa, he broke his leg last year, that why he didn't attempt the quad ect.
lala630312 1 year ago 3
@lala630312 Yeah, Plushenko did have a few injuries. However, no girl skaters have ever landed a quadtoe in competition.I really don't think any girl has ever tried a quad toe (though I'm not sure if that's what you were referring to)And no, it wasn't just US media- I don't think they can fake Lysacek saying aloud that he had stress fractures. Anyway, if Plushenko had skated with ZERO mistakes, he woulda won. He didn't, so he didn't win. (I know what i'm talking about-- Figure skater myself.)
RubikCuber1 1 year ago
@RubikCuber1i don't understand, Lysa landed quadtoe in competition? i didn't see. You know, in Europe and Asia Plushenko is the real winner. I know what i'm talking, because i heard many tv chanel, radio, who said, Plushy is the real winner. Figure skating analysts say the decision to award Evan the gold medal over Evgeni was debatable. And that is not true, that Evan was faultless, only he hasn't deduction. He has an underrotated 3A, he got +GOE. Why? Evgeni has deuction one of the 3Axel
lala630312 1 year ago
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@RubikCuber1 If you are figure skater, you know what i'm talking about:
From NY Times ( /2010/02/20/sports/olympics/20longman.html) : Lysacek received only a judges warning for a wrong-edged takeoff on his triple flip, not a 2- or 3-point deduction that would have changed the outcome, which was narrowly decided in his favor by 257.67 points to 256.36." Who is the real Champion? ( I'm hungarian, Ernő Rubik is also hungarian , who made the rubikcube)
lala630312 1 year ago
@lala630312 Skaters don't get 2 or 3 points off for an edge violation
Luukashist 1 year ago
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@Luukashist I don't said:
From NY Times ( /2010/02/20/sports/olympics/20longman.html) : Lysacek received only a judges warning for a wrong-edged takeoff on his triple flip, not a 2- or 3-point deduction that would have changed the outcome, which was narrowly decided in his favor by 257.67 points to 256.36."
So how come people say Lysacek is technologically strong and deserve the gold medal? Apparently he didn't get the deduction he deserved for the 3F, and his uderrotated 3Axel. Why?
lala630312 1 year ago
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@Luukashist I don't said:
From NY Times ( /2010/02/20/sports/olympics/20longman.html) : Lysacek received only a judges warning for a wrong-edged takeoff on his triple flip, not a 2- or 3-point deduction that would have changed the outcome, which was narrowly decided in his favor by 257.67 points to 256.36."
So how come people say Lysacek is technologically strong and deserve the gold medal? Apparently he didn't get the deduction he deserved for the 3F, and his uderrotated 3Axel. Why?
lala630312 1 year ago
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@Luukashist I don't said:
From NY Times ( /2010/02/20/sports/olympics/20longman.html) : Lysacek received only a judges warning for a wrong-edged takeoff on his triple flip, not a 2- or 3-point deduction that would have changed the outcome, which was narrowly decided in his favor by 257.67 points to 256.36."
So how come people say Lysacek is technologically strong and deserve the gold medal? Apparently he didn't get the deduction he deserved for the 3F, and his uderrotated 3Axel Why?
lala630312 1 year ago
@Luukashist Yes, they do.From NY Times ( /2010/02/20/sports/olympics/20longman.html) : "Lysacek received only a judges warning for a wrong-edged takeoff on his triple flip, not a 2- or 3-point deduction that would have changed the outcome, which was narrowly decided in his favor by 257.67 points to 256.36. "
catnabiya 1 year ago
@lala630312 If you are figure skater, you know what i'm talking about:
From NY Times ( /2010/02/20/sports/olympics/20longman.html) : Lysacek received only a judges warning for a wrong-edged takeoff on his triple flip, not a 2- or 3-point deduction that would have changed the outcome, which was narrowly decided in his favor by 257.67 points to 256.36." Who is the real Champion? ( I'm hungarian, Ernő Rubik is too, who made the rubikcube)
lala630312 1 year ago
@lala630312 Well, if you had broken a bone doing something (like a quad), would you be jumping up and down to go and do it some more??????
Luukashist 1 year ago
@Luukashist Of course, no. But the fs is a sport, and the Oly motto: Citius, Fortius, Altius. Plushy was faster, stronger, higher.. I know this from an american:Press conference 2009. Lysa:"I think it's important that we try to promote athletes working on the quad i know it's very dangerous element it's dangerous to train it, it's dangerous try in competition...
lala630312 1 year ago
@Luukashist Well, your words only prove our point: Lysa is not a champion materiel; he had no good physical condition for it. To be an Olympic champion you should at least attempt the most difficult jumps well (what the silver medalist CAN DO) as perfect the easy stuff! (what EVERY skater can do). Lysacek is Oly Champion? HaHaHa! Man’s Figure Skating is soooooo degraded…
catnabiya 1 year ago
@catnabiya Again, it's not always the best skater who wins, just the one who skates the cleanest, and Plushenko didn't skate the cleanest and Lysacek did. I'm not that big a Lysacek fan or a big Plushenko fan (I prefer Daisuke Takahashi or Stephane Lambiel), I just know from watching plushenko that if he HAD skated clean he definitely would've won. P.S. I am impressed with how Plushenko made such a successful comeback after 4 years out!
Luukashist 1 year ago
@Luukashist You have to be naive to believe that all the clean programs should be above the others. Lysa's level of the program was female. Even children do such jumps what Lysa did in Vancouver. No wonder it LOOKED clean (but it WOSN'T: huge peroration on 3Axel and wrong-edged Flip looks clean only for someone who doesn't know what FS is about). Obviously, Plush was robbed of the gold. Vancouver 2010 is one more shameful page in the history of Olympic Games.
catnabiya 1 year ago
@catnabiya So by your logic, triple jumps are only for the ladies to perform? Okay then, we should have the men perform 8 quads... maybe even have some quints. ...No? That post is sexist and incredibly ignorant. Also extremely ironic seeing how Plushenko could barely perform a triple lutz without wobbling. The fact that that very problem occurred several times in his performance, I find his +GOEs laughable. The judges were obviously in favor of Plush, but thank god the right man won in the end.
pinto89100 1 year ago
@pinto89100 Lysacek´s GOE were laughable too. Maybe the judges had a sense of humor that you can´t understand.:))))))
SimonaCB 1 year ago
@SimonaCB No, I have to say it's the other way around...Plushenko's triple axels were so bad, I'd have to say Mao's were actually better than his as far as execution! I really wonder what he has to say about Mao's silver win? "Wizout truple axel, iz just ice dancing." Poor deluded man...and it seems that the word is what exactly represents his fan base. xD If you look at the whole picture and really knew as much about FS as you think, you would know Plushenko couldn't have done Evan's program.
pinto89100 1 year ago
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@pinto89100The reason why Plushenko should've gotten GOLD:
1)two 4t-3t combos both in short and free (No one landed in Vancouver)
2) Plushenko's artistic marks were better in judging(contrary to what Lysacek's supporters know) his mark 8.8/8,75
3) Lysacek's triple flip wrong-edge deduction: 2-3 points deduction deserves but judges didn't reflect that in the judging sheet
4) Lysacke: 2 COMBO DEDUCTIONS: 3A-2T(-0.56), 3F-2T-2T(-0.40)-Which means his 3L-3T is the only combo jump he rightly landed
dorca000 1 year ago 5
@pinto89100 #This is hshim comments, i think he is an expert:
hshim80
4) With Lysacek's severe COMBO DEDUCTIONS, his program component score is too high! Equal to Plushenko's ! HA!
5) IN SP, Judges purposely used "transition" as criterion, which was never ever a criterion before Vancouver in the single event
6)Lysacek's all jumps were low and many of them were not fully rotated: He deserves "Cheating" charge
dorca000 1 year ago 5
@dorca000 Well I suggest hshim80 fixes the flaws in his argument. and NO, don't delude yourself into thinking he's some kind of expert because obviously he's not. Evan's component score is not to high seeing how his footwork, spins, and all that good stiff were superior. And transitions have been used before Vancouver as a criteria, just that they were optional between footwork. Now they are both part of the criteria and rightly so.
pinto89100 1 year ago
@pinto89100The reason why Plushenko should've gotten GOLD:
1)two 4t-3t combos both in short and free (No one landed in Vancouver)
2) Plushenko's artistic marks were better in judging(contrary to what Lysacek's supporters know) his mark 8.8/8,75
3) Lysacek: triple flip wrong-edge deduction: 2-3 points deduction deserves but judges didn't reflect that in the judging sheet
4) Lysacke's 2 COMBO DEDUCTIONS: 3A-2T(-0.56), 3F-2T-2T(-0.40)-Which means his3L-3T is the only combo jump he rightly landed
dorca000 1 year ago
@dorca000 If Plushenko had been scored correctly, he would have still lost, even with all of Evan's deductions. Plushenko's number of +'s in his GOE scores were a joke seeing how he couldn't land half of them w/o looking like he was ready to buckle on almost every single one. Not to mention out titled they were in the air. Also, you have to consider the choreography. Evan's was miles ahead of Plushenko's in terms of choreography as well as the set up. It was much more difficult.
pinto89100 1 year ago
@dorca000 Evan had more triples after the half point than Plushenko (10% bonus for every jump after the half point.) He also had one more triple than Plushenko. Now you also have to consider the fact that Plushenko lacked transitions, that his footwork was very simple, and that his spins lacked Evan's centering. Overall Evan's program was harder. The quad is only ONE element, it does not define the whole program.
pinto89100 1 year ago
@pinto89100 #
hshim80
"TO LYSACEK DEFENDERS: If you wanna argue that Lysacek fairly won, plz talk to us based on ISU RULE and numerical data. Do not simply say that Lysacek was better in artistry but actually Lysacek got better points in technicality, which causes more controversy than consensus. The offical Vancouver Olympic site still set all records open to everyone, and ISU also clearly stipulated on which part they make deductions and award bonus points based on RULE!"
dorca000 1 year ago
@dorca000 Read my previous comments. I did make my opinion based on the rules. ;) Also, I suggest you start giving your own opinion rather than that of someone else, it'd be nice to have a reply to the points I made, not have random inaccurate statements splattered all over the forum.
pinto89100 1 year ago
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@pinto89100 I live in Europe, in Europe Plushenko is the God!!! After the men's free, there has been so many protests raised all over the world. And Europoll showed that 70% of Europeans think Plushenko should be given the Gold! That's why Barcelona conference revised rule change after this.If they think Lysacek rightly won, why do they make rule-revision?
dorca000 1 year ago 2
@dorca000 Also, you're telling me that hshim said Evan could not rotate a single jump? Well you have to go tell him to get the shit out of his eyes, slow down the video, and count. He also needs to take a look at Plushenko's poor landings, something that happened SEVERAL times in the program. If things like that happen, GOE scores should be low. Despite this, Plushenko's were not. It's a joke that Evan and Plush tied on the technical mark.
pinto89100 1 year ago
@pinto89100 What do you mean by low? Plushenko's GOEs were low enough. Deduction on the 3A, 0 GOE for the 3Lz-3T combo,etc. I believe you can't make the difference between a poor landing and a cheated jump. Why do you think that they called him a genius of the jumps? Because he can LAND even the poorest jumps, with the worst position in the air!!!!
SimonaCB 1 year ago
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pinto89100 1 year ago
@pinto89100 From hshim
"No one brought up controversy like Lysacek in FS. Whay do you think the reason? Simply Plushenko whining? Plushenko in this video says Lysacek even didn't attempt 3a-3t, which skaters did before quad attempt. Jump is the basic and foremost element in FS history. Transitions? This is not ice-dancing! Galina Zmeskaya, Elvis Stojko, Tarasova, Philiippe Candeleoro, Katarin Witt(indirectly), Sasha Cohen said that they cannot unerstand the result. LOL! "
dorca000 1 year ago
@dorca000 Ha! Sasha Cohen said NOTHING of that sort. I saw the accused interview and she never even gave her opinion. She spoke in 3rd person the entire time.
pinto89100 1 year ago
@dorca000 No one brought controversy like that of Evan winning the gold? Did your little friend forget about Salt Lake City and the pairs controversy? Also I suggest you start giving your own opinion and prove that you're not some brain washed vegetable that can be easily manipulated to think anything 'cause someone says this and that. Go out and do the research for yourself, and maybe you'll find that the so called expert does not exactly have a decent argument.
pinto89100 1 year ago
@dorca000 Here's what former Russian pair world champion, Irina Rodnina, had to say, “Evgeni had one big advantage - the quadruple jump - but at the same time, in the performance of our champion, there were enough small errors that weren't noticeable to all. Lysacek, meanwhile, had a winning appearance, a balanced program, all elements carefully woven into his program, logically. And Evgeni, it was especially obvious in the second half, was skating from jump to jump.”
pinto89100 1 year ago
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lala630312 1 year ago
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lala630312 1 year ago
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@SimonaCB It seems you can't tell the difference between a fully rotated jump and a cheated jump. And no, Plushenko's GOE marks were not low enough.There should have been -s where I saw +s. Plushenko may have been a genius before on his jumps but that night he quite frankly sucked. Yeah it was impressive that he could land some of those horrifically titled jumps, but his landings were far from impressive.
pinto89100 1 year ago
@SimonaCB You obviously can't tell the difference between a fully rotated jump and a jump that is cheated. Good for him that Plushenko can land shitty jumps, however I would be more impressed if the landings weren't as shitty as they were in the air. His GOE scores were too high. He could barely land a triple lutz w/o wobbling. Something that happened SEVERAL times in the program, yet his GOE marks did not reflect on that. Evan was more well rounded, had more difficult set up, and was cleaner.
pinto89100 1 year ago
@pinto89100 Evan is far from Evgeni's talent. Evgeni is unique, so special, charismatic, he is the God on ice. Evan? Evan is mediocre, his skating is pretty, no more. In Europe and Asia he is totally irrelevant. He hasn't fan outside NA. To the americans must be accepted that this win controversial forever. The majority of FS fan support Evgeni. You don't know, because your media didn't say about this. In NA celebrated the new hero, who beat PLUSHENKO. But this victory is so pitiful....
lala630312 1 year ago
@lala630312 What makes you think I care? I don't. Whether Plushenko is more talented or not than Evan is your opinion. It doesn't mean that Plushenko can land more than half of his jumps poorly and still win, I know in your perfect world that's how you wish it would go, but it doesn't. Evan's skating is pretty? Well hun, in skating that's not exactly a bad thing. ;) I'm not a fan of either, but lets's face the facts here, Plush's jumps were back to back to back- (cont)
pinto89100 1 year ago
@pinto89100 You don't understand! Only american think that Evan was the best! You read the forum, but you read only american forum! Is Plushenko only jumper? this is the most stupid thing what i heard in my life, You are a parrot, you repeat what the heard in biased America. This is an american stupid sztereotype. You said, you isn't a Fs fan. I'm in my whole life. I know Plushenko's every programs. I recommend you, look at the programs, and you wouldn't speak stupid stereotypie( continue)
lala630312 1 year ago
@lala630312 No, I don't just read American forums...You only have to go on their profiles to see the variety in nationality. And no, it's not just Americans who believe Plushenko deserved the gold. The little delusion a lot of you Plushenko fans(notice I didn't say ALL) is starting to creep me out. Also, you misunderstand. I didn't say I wasn't a FS fan, I just said I don't like Evan or Plushenko very much, they don't have the qualities in a skater I like. I go for Daisuke or Jeremy more.
pinto89100 1 year ago
--and yet he couldn't land them w/o wobbling. What makes you think that that is a superior skate to Evan's which was cleaner with a more DIFFICULT setup? Yes, this will be debated for years to come, but what your deluded self doesn't seem to get is that there are PLENTY of people that side with Evan. (Take a look at forums all over the internet) From the comments I've read, Plushenko is losing credibility as we speak. You have to accept this. Don't fool yourself.
pinto89100 1 year ago
@pinto89100 We know that there are plenty of people that side with Evan, just like there are plenty of people who side with Plushenko, that´s why the result is debatable!
SimonaCB 1 year ago
@pinto89100 It didn´t happened SEVERAL times, he had problems only with the 3A and the 3Lz-2T combo and he received the proper deductions. A sloppy landing doesn´t mean a cheated jump. The other jumps weren´t as good as usual, that´s why his highest GOE was 1.00.
Let´s remember that judges gave GOE to Lysacek for a wrong-edged flip , how low could they score a jump that wasn´t even cheated?
SimonaCB 1 year ago
@SimonaCB No, Plushenko had trouble landing BOTH of his 3Lzs, as well as both of his axels. I never said that a cheated jump is the same as a sloppy landing, nor did I ever say that they deserved the same deduction. What I'm saying is that there were numerous jumps that were not executed to the level that the GOE scored said they were. In that account, they were too high.
pinto89100 1 year ago
@SimonaCB Also, if Evan were to have received the deductions (because I will say his edge was questionable) Plushenko's jumps were still below what Evan did as far as execution, and we must keep in mind the transitions, and the fact that Plush's jumps were back to back. Evan actually left more jumps at the end which was a smart move to pick up bonus points.
And yes, this is debatable. I completely agree that there are people out there that side with Plush obviously. No problem here with me.
pinto89100 1 year ago
@pinto89100 @pinto89100 Plushenko is really artistry, he is exciting, color, funny, lovely, and yes, he is never boring. Evan is so boring.
/watch?v=Zeons6QmeHM&feature=related here is artistry
/watch?v=idm44rSF0jk&videos=5l35FzlFNPU here he is sexy
/watch?v=4ooGFKnTMYY&videos=Ag3wjl0Muqg here he is fuuunny
/watch?v=YwhL13nxan8&videos=bqHm3pzm78A How much adore him You are so ignorant and biased, i sorry for you.... Plushenko is the best ! Ever!
lala630312 1 year ago
@lala630312 No, I am not ignorant or biased. Pretty much shows your maturity when you jump to insults like that just because I have a different opinion. Showing me links isn't going to make me change my mind either. You seem to be under the impression I haven't been watching Plushenko until 2010, which is not true at all. Like I said, if you like Plushenko better than Evan, that's fine with me. But I still have yet to be convinced that Plushenko deserved the Gold in Vancouver.
pinto89100 1 year ago
@pinto89100 I'm just saying that there is a lot of good skaters but Plushenko is more than a good skater. He will be in the history book of FS (Scott Hamilton). He is always exciting. Sometimes funny, sometimes passionate, and he has awesome charisma and adorable personality. He is a magically attractive person and he has impact on people. I think America is too far away. Europe and Asia, he is the God. Have you seen the vid from Japan? The Japanese adore him, he had/has 40 shows.
lala630312 1 year ago
@lala630312 Okay... It's nice that you find Plushenko so attractive, and so inspiring, but may I know, how this has anything to do with the programs Plushenko performed in Vanvouver? I will answer your one question though, whether I find him artistic or not. I never really understood the appeal Plushenko has in artistry. I just really don't. There are many other skaters I could say that inspire me 200 folds more than Plush does, but each to their own opinion, I guess.
pinto89100 1 year ago
@lala630312 Lala, Plushenko has fans in America, believe me. Just because they don´t post on forums or Youtube doesn´t mean they don´t exist. Someone told me that his american friends even they don´t like him are dying of curiosity too see him live. That´s what matters, people who want to see your shows not some anonymous posts on a forum.
SimonaCB 1 year ago
@SimonaCB Yes, i know, because on Evgeni's website read many american post, who begged to Evgeni go skating in America. They said it was anywhere to be on the show, they travel there.(From Hawai LOL!)
lala630312 1 year ago
@pinto89100 Daisuke said about him in 2006 on japanese Tv :"oh, my god,, there was a God,,",
"I felt amazing aura,, he couldn't hide it" I accept other opinions i just hate it, when americans say that Plushy isn't artistry. I think, they never watched his Moonlight Sonata, Tango and flamenco, Adagio or Chopin program in Korea 2009 ect. Look at those vids and answer me. Is he not artistic?
lala630312 1 year ago
@pinto89100 Oh i forgot about this: /watch?v=6-7c-9GqE3Q&feature=related
this is his new program, he made to Korea.(Mack the knife) The show was june. The koreans were crazy for him. He recieved many many gift. Evan? he received polite applause. i really sorry for Evan..
lala630312 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@pinto89100 Do you know, that after Oly more 6000 people registered to a link, they wrote name, city, and jub( from all over the world), who wanted the revision of outcome? I think, no. Many people wrote directly to ISU and IOC, and wanted the revision. Evgeni is most popular skater of the world. The peoples crazy for him. Because of this matter, Barcelona conference revised rule change. If they think Lysacek rightly won, why do they make rule-revision?
lala630312 1 year ago