I asked my coach about this whole rollkur-issue and she said that these days people have totally the wrong idea of how to ride a proper rollkur. That it is done too tight, for too long, too aggressive and for the wrong reasons.
She said in the means of classical dressage, a rollkur should be ridden rollkur on a long rein, so that it is asked/encouraged to move in hyperflexion, rather than forced into it with harsh reins. And it should be done for only about 10 to 30 seconds, which is the average time for any stretching exercise. IS THIS TRUE?
@Kiathira in my opinion a horse should NEVER go overbent behind the vertical line. its painful for the horse and it can´t see anything. it also doesn´t work proparly when its head is behind the vertical line. i think rollkur is animal cruelty. and it should never be used in any exercices. and that´s what everyone i know that is involved with riding says.
in all competions this is banned in the ring and in the warm up ring. you can get barred from comps for 5years if your caught using it. but what happens in privite no-one can stop. im personally against it because its unnatural and ruins a horse and there future carrea.
It's great that you have noticed such a thing! I don't know this no longer takes place but I hope not. I don't know how I have previously been unable to keep such issues with a beautiful.Now that I have looked this video it seems to me that I feel sick. And now everybody, let's save the horses! (:
@TheCrosscountryfreak Dr. Gerd heuschmann, a german veterinarian, made a petition against rollkur/LDR that was signed by thousands of people. He took that to the FEI, where the FEI completely ignored it and his several letter attempts. The FEI changed their rule guides making the rollkur and similar training methods okay. He has written a fabulous book comparing classical dressage to modern day dressage.
Rollkur is horrible! but as @TheChopsinator has said it will not stop if we keep giving these terrible riders medals. THERE HAS TO BE A WAY WE CAN STOP IT!! does anyone know of any anti -rollkur patitions or something? please tell me and the others who are kind and love their horses
@TheCrosscountryfreak How to stop it? Don't buy any horses from these people. Don't buy from their lines. Don't support the things they use or products they endorse. The only voice people hear is money. Vote with your dollars. Know what you're buying.
I believe a horse should be ridden within its natural structure. anything else is strictly for fashion, a pleasantry to the human eye at the horses expense. In my eyes; thats an unnecessary cause for pain and therefore; cruel. I, personally, think this is horrid, as is the western "peanut" rolling. If you have to chalk your horses mouth full of metal and contort its body that way you are no true horseman and clearly cannot control it without these contraptions. Terrible.
As long as they keep giving this crap gold medals, it will continue. Look at Andreas Helgestrand and Blue Hors Matine (my spelling is probably off). That was a happy horse and rider! Lost to Anky and her frothing, abused, robotic non-horse. Sick.
Please look up the clinic by Anky van Grunsven at Jumping Maastricht. Here she explains the rollkur exactly, how you explained it here is not the way it works. First read about things before you get to a conclussion. I don't ride like that, but now by getting more information about this form of ridding that it's not so bad as it looks.
Why do you think they use warmbloods? Traditionally bred for farm work? Try doing that to a Thoroughbred and see what happens. Half of them can't control their horses any other way and half of the others can't ride the traditional method.
I have ridden peanut rollers and never again, If my horse starts putting her head to low or goes behind the vertical I ether ask her to raise her head, put her back on her hind quarters and ask her to put her head back on the vertical and stretch into the bit
ilovemyjazzy1, peanut rolling is essential the horse being ridden with its head bellow the verticle. When I was showing, instead of the horse's head being around the height of the saddle horn, people would ride with the horse's head down by its knees or ankles. Keep in mind, this headset was maintained through all gates. They call it peanut rolling because the head is so low it looks like they are rolling something on the ground. Really messes up their body.
Ewww. I've trained in dressage, and rollkur is NOT good. It simply mimics getting a horse "on the bit" but really it's forced submission. It doesn't do anything for strengthening the horse's hindquarters, and it results in unhappy, uncomfortable horses. There are much better ways to achieve the classical dressage moves! Dressage used to be the sport that showed the utmost best horsemanship skills. ugh :( Poor horseys.
FromWishingDreams, I had the same issue. It wasn't until my final year in 4-H that the judges stopped placing peanut rollers higher up. Of course, by then I had given up on winning pleasure and was killing in every other class lol. On the bright side, my horse's body is still in top conditions while her competition's is, less than desirable lol
My wife was a groom for the 2004 Olympics and worked alongside Anky (the rider in some of these videos). Money and "Winning" does strange things to people. Animal abuse should never be tolerated.
This is just as bad as peanut rolling (not sure if there is a more technical name) that I used to see when I was competing western where their head is WAY to low (usually round their knees or lower). This forced them to be heavy on the forehand and strung out in the back, completely unbalanced but riders thought it looked good. What a shame.
@alythrae100 Right? I always thought that looked ugly. I used to show and would always lose receive low scores and ribbons because my horse didn't maneuver that way.
DannieFlintan my horse too has a natural tendency to go behind the vertical but you have to understand that this is simply hiding from the bit. Same kind of unacceptance as the ones that throw their head in the air but much more submissive response to simply get away from the bit. Try just riding forward, forward, forward and forget your contact at all for a while. After enough forwardness without very slight contact, she will start to try to find the bit but it will be a very slow change
My horse over bends occasionally, and although she doesn't do it all the time I'm still concerned because I don't want her in any pain. I don't ride heavily or have used any type of training aids, I push her into the contact as much as I can but she still does this. Any suggestions?
@DannieFlintan Make sure your hands are in the right place, hands too high cause too much torque on the bit and may cause slight overbending.Riding her with more leg than your contact allows may cause her to go on the forehand. This doesn't mean make your contact stronger, don't use your hands to position her head. Encourage her to seek the bit with a lowered head(slight contact), a light seay may also allow her to work through her back.
bravo to you for this. the world f you tube brought me to your page randomly, and i'm so thankful. Al the best., thank you for raising awareness. i'm into relationsips between humans and nature - and this is a lovely example of how humans will tell you they are moral whilst behaving immorally.xx
Someone took a half lease on my 5 year old once and started riding her like this. I never saw it first hand, but I heard about it and I could feel it in the mare's movement (disengaged, afraid of the contact, sucked back, etc). They're not allowed to ride at the barn anymore :3 It took me weeks to undo the damage the rollkur had caused in her training. This shit disgusts me.
This makes me feel so angry, horses were not created and tamed just to be treated like this! I wanted to start up eventing, since I jump and start dressage. But this is just not acceptable, I can't believe so many people believe this is beautiful, THIS IS UGLY... It digusts me unbeliably so much how these horses are being treated. In my eyes, beautiful is a natural, healthy, painless horse.
It's about Modern vs. Classical dressage...in the modern world, it's all about how fast can we get at getting what we think is good, even if it's wrong and is painful. Rollkur has been used even in classical dressage, but modern dressage takes the element and trashes it and misuses it. This video truly demonstrates 'excessive rollkur'...
This is just disgusting. Why would you want to do that to such a wonderful animal? This is something that i'm strongly against. What kind of heartless creature would you have to be to do that?
Gadverdamme, ik ben Nederland en ik kan geen Engels, maar ik begrijp het nu wel. Echt zielig, als ik zo kijk, zijn er zat mensen op de manege waar ik ben die dit doen. Ertegen!!
@JustBecause110 and form a strong understanding for horse's, how they think, and natural horsemanship. Why take lessons with a trainer who breaks you down right? Even if I never go to another show, I just want to be able to communicate with horses the best I can in the most natural ways.
@JustBecause110 I cried and vowed to never ever let her touch him again. And I haven't and never will. I'm also going to start taking lessons with a new instructor, I have continued to see bad horsemanship and bad character in her. I have no respect for anyone who is going to act like that and treat any horse that way. I was not enjoying my lessons either. Her and her mother both make me feel terrible almost everytime I ride with them. And I don't care about competing, I just want to have fun...
I would hate to ride like that.. I don't like to see even a horse and rider with the horses head an inch under the perpidicular line... It would be like a horse with no head- A Slave.
This horrified me and made me so angry. I've seen numerous other things from this same rider that is making me turn away from my riding lessons and decide to wait till I'm out of college to expand my dressage knowledge so that I can get a respectable trainer/instructor who is fair to their horses and actually treats them with respect.
Rollkur is horrific. So was Anky really the one to introduce this method? I think dressage is beautiful when done properly and fairly for the horse. And I would love to master it. But my riding instructors daughter (supposed to also be a good instructor) rode my horse and tried to force him to do high level movements when he was not ready and did not understand. She was ripping his jaw off and whipping him so hard I could hear to whip cutting through the air. Trying to do a pirouette.
I know a horse trained with this method since she was 5, now she's 14 he has severe arthritis and is practically unridable, compared to my 23 year old who was trained properly and is still perfect at dressage.
this idea- is the bad riders that are all well known..lots of people know that anky van grusen uses rollkur. and beginners may think that is what dressage is cause thats all theyve heard of. Lots of people DONT know that Blue Hors Matine was the greatest dressage horse ever!! Or who scored the highest score in the olympics last year. Nope- all you hear about is who used rollkur in the warm up arena. And thats all beginners are interested in. The bad stuff!! this is misleading...
As far as I can see right now, in a good piaffe, the horse kind of sits on their hindquarters, while a rollkur piaffe is kind of like the horse just switching feet. I could be wrong...can someone help?
its completly medival its only bad because they know what they are doing to the horses that serves us and dont do anything about it. it isnt critical to horse training there are better ways to train a horse and a better way to become good riders and this is not it.
You have raised some very important issues, which I have have noticed myself. Most importantly, that the horse can not see where it is going in rolkur. That in itself should be enough to dissuade anyone from attempting the method. Also, that there becomes a lack of engagement in the hind legs, especially during the extended trot, is a trend I have noticed. It is one thing to ask a horse to stretch and flex, and quite another to force them to stay in a compromised position.
oh my gosh! i just can' t believe anky van grunsven uses such methods!!!!! :-((( i am totally disappointed..... thank you very much for creating this video!
this is a totally barbaric act. This is so wrong and should never be allowed. Trouble is all the morons who want a short cut to what they think is dressage are likely to try it. Dungeons to good for them how about hung draw and quarter." i love my horse" you must be joking
I'm not here to give an opinion about rollkur but to anyone who is hating anky vangrunsven, watch: watch?v=MPJGEzI3aIc and tell me she is a bad rider. If you say that's a shitty rider, who forces here horse, you are just jealous!
@saminiky she is idd not a bad rider...on the contrary even...but it makes it even more sad that a rider like her resorts to these cruel methods coz titles and money are more important to her apparantly.....I feel ashamed she's from my country and jealous? hell no: I'd rather spend a few more months training a horse the right way then to lower myself in using this kind of methods.....
@DutchHorseAdventures ik heb net je eerste post gelezen, ik had eerst alleen het vervolg bericht gelezen. Ik ben van België dus we verstaan elkaar wel in het nederlands :-) weet je waarom ze zich wend tot zulke methodes? Omdat ze op topniveau draait en daar moet alles snel gaan en moet er resultaat zijn. Dat willen de mensen die er geld 'inpompen'. Ik heb een tijdje gewerkt op een gekende showjumping stoeterij en wat je daar te zien krijgt tart soms ook alle verbeelding.
@saminiky ja helaas is de sport deze kant opgegaan en ik besef heel goed dat op haar niveau de eigenaren/sponsors snel resultaat willen zien. Maar persoonlijk vind ik het verschrikkelijk en ik weet dat ik niet op haar niveau kan rijden en ook nooit zal halen, maar als dit de manier is wil ik dat ook niet eens. Heb zelf een tijdje met dravers gewerkt en zoals je al aangaf met die jumpingstoeterij waar je hebt gewerkt, zag je ook daar dingen die voor het dier gezien echt niet door de beugel konden
@DutchHorseAdventures ja als het op geld aankomt moeten de dieren het bekopen. Maar wat mij stoort is de houding van iedereen ten opzichte van Anky, ze heeft hard moeten werken om zo ver te raken en iedereen schrijft hier comments alsof ze het allemaal beter kunnen en alsof anky haar paarden niet graag ziet. Ik ga niet akkoord met rollkur maar er moet wel gezegd worden dat Anky niet constant haar paarden met de neus tegen de borst rijd.
@saminiky and why would I'd rather spend a few more months doing the training the right way? well as was said in this video, because with rollkur the hindquarters are no longer doing the work anymore but the front and it makes the hindquarters look stiff and tbh has made dressage ugly because these horses look stiff and sore...which they probably are...and thats why people are dissing Anky because she is ruining horses with this method
@DutchHorseAdventures have you seen the vid I was talking about? Sorry but people here dissing her, can't ride a horse like that, and they ride the 'right' way.
@saminiky ja daar heb je gelijk in...ken trouwens die video al....vind alleen: dootdat ze zo bekend ermee geworden is zijn er van die Anky wannabees opgestaan die helemaal niet weten waar ze mee bezig zijn en die het ook proberen...ook al zijn ze maar l2 dressuur...ik rijd nu een paard die door zo'n wannabee is gereden. Toen ik net op dr reed was ze zo verschrikkelijk stijf en gevoelig in dr rug hierdoor. Is nu na 2 maanden niks van dr vragen maar dr gewoon als het ware losrijden de hele tijd al
@saminiky een stuk beter nu. Ze is weer los en praktisch niet gevoelig meer. Nu het laatste stukje in dr rug nog en dan kan ik eindelijk serieus met dr bezig :D Maar wat je zegt over de comments hier is inderdaad waar. Maar dr zijn zowiezo van die idioten hier op YT die zich gedragen alsof ze gelijk al z dressuur waren toen ze voor het eerst reden/ of anders wel op grand prix niveau springen. Zijn van die gasten die alleen maar boekjes hebben gelezen over rijden en geen echte ervaring hebben
@juska256 if you actually look into rollkur you will realise that it actually closes the horses air ways substantially and in fear of suffocation the horse submits to its rider the 500kg the horse has no choice. so dont even try to argue for rollkur it a evil technique and no proper rider would ever use it.
@juska256 if you actually look into rollkur you will realise that it actually closes the horses air ways substantially and in fear of suffocation the horse submits to its rider the 500kg the horse has no choice. so dont even try to argue for rollkur it a evil technique and no proper rider would ever use it.
dear god that looks so painful. i have been riding my entire life and always wondered why people trained like this but i never knew it was an actual named "training" technique! absolutely disgusting and i agree with juska256, anyone who implements thee methods deserves to have them used on themselves and then tortured slowly to death. so horrible, the last clip you can see the pain in the horse just from the way he is trying to stay off the forehand because of the hyperflexion. this is horrible
This is a fantastic video. Horses allow us to ride on their back, they trust us and keep us safe, and what do we do? We pin their chins to their chests and hang onto the reins of a DOUBLE BRIDLE like they're just a bit of rope. HORSES FEEL PAIN TOO. I have lost all respect for Anky Van Grunsven and I feel terribly sorry for the horses she rides. Help our horses. STOP ROLLKUR. Thank you so much for posting this video.
This is good and all (the video lol) but i think it causes confusion... Idiots see someone doing LRD and accuse them of roll kur and cause a lot of issues ... maybe you could explain the difference because LRD is good for a horse in moderation. horses cannot train in a high frame all the time andLRD is what you alternate with! Roll Kur sucks but it isnt LRD (Low Round Deep)
I really dont get how this is to be desired in high lvl dressage...the classic way where the head is vertical or at least rly close to it looks way better and gives a way more relaxed look....the way kurs are ridden looks just rly painfull for these poor horses...and when I learned to ride( well still a going on progress since in riding you keep learning etc) I was told that going behind the vertical was wrong and NOT to be desired
i have a 5 yo haflinger and because of her enourmous neck, i am teaching her to have a relaxed neck, more like an arched swan neck. not bunched up like those poor horses with their fucked up riders. id like to put a double bridle on them and see-saw their heads off so they can feel the pain.
Thanks for the video... I would like to add that the trainer I use is German and lived and trained in Germany before moving here. He has many accomplished students and he always has us riding forward to the hand NEVER nose in chest so I dont think of it as one countrys bad teaching but it does seem to be spreading. Maybe education wil help.
This is anything but pretty. It looks absoultely painful. Hurts me just to watch. While, indeed, I do love the world of Dressage, I'll now have a constant thought ticking in my mind when I watch. It'll be hard not to start screaming if I actually spot someone using the Rollkur method on their horse. This is animal cruelty. And isn't this illegal? I could've sworn I read somewhere it was forbidden.
2:35 onwards - it doesn't look elegant or harmonious or anything, in fact it looks like they ought to be in the circus (and that's an insult to the circus!)
Being in an outline should be when the horse accepts the bit and moves forwards willingly. This is not accepting the bit, it is unnantural, forceful and wrong! Why would anyone to restrict and harm their world class dressage horse by using this horrible technique? Horse and rider are no longer partners, they are a master and slave!
I recently reopened an old dressage manual (published in 1976) and it's amazing just how different things are today. All the pictures in this old manual are of horses moving naturally, their heads on or just in front of the vertical (and otherwise, there is a comment saying that the horse's head is too close to or slightly behind the vertical, ie this is a bad thing). I no longer aspire to ride "like the greats" who are winning in dressage today. I love my horse too much.
I have no problem with the horse being on the bit, I once rode a horse that would go on the bit willingly and without being asked, but this is too much. A horses head should not be tucked all the way down to their chest. Much too painful.
I'm sorry but this is cruelty. These horses' heads are definitely NOT where they're supposed to be when they're on the bit. First and foremost, this does not look anything like beauty to me. It's horrific. The horse looks bunched up and just look at their eyes! They look sad and in pain, Second, when a horse is on a light contact and on-the-bit, their head should be slightly down and in, there nose pointing to their chest or parallel to the chest, not TOUCHING the chest!
I will tell you the sercet of Rollkur, trainers use this to restrict oxygen to the brain of the horse the horses throax closes up. With less oxygen to the brain the horse then becomes calm and lightheaded and slows down because of to much carbon monoxide in the blood then the horse learns to be submissive to the rider's every comand because of fear of suffcation. Just like when a lion attacks a zebra it will go for the throax and then the drop down so liken these people to beasts of the feld.
THANK YOU! I hate rollkur, and it doesn't even look "pretty", as some people stupidly think. That is why I do classical dressage that focuses on engaging the horse's entire body while keeping them soft and supple.
@GreenBayBreyerFarm Whoa ^^ No, that doesn't mean your stupid, and I can see why you would say it is pretty. But holding your horses head in to his chest for more than a few minutes at a time can be very damaging. The "pro" riders who use this technique to enhance their horses movements only do it for short amounts of time. This position requires a lot from a horse--it's like ballet. You wouldn't expect a ballet dancer to walk around on pointe for hours. Same goes for your horse. Use sparingly.
@GreenBayBreyerFarm You are a savage and horrid monster. Why would you ever harm a horse and make them suffer? How 'bout I shove your neck down to your freaking chest for a few hours? It'd be oh-so "beautiful", no?
@RevanMahariel Look, you loser. Rollkur, it's positiong a horses head, in my eyes. Who cares? It's not cruel. I love my horse, and I would never do anything to hurt him. <3 So what? I keep his head near his chest. BIG DEAL. It's for our own good.
@GreenBayBreyerFarm Really? You love your horse? You say you'd never inflict harm upon him? Then why are you subjecting him to something like this? Do you not understand how deterimental it is, both physically and mentally? He may not be showing his pain and/or resisting because he has little choice, since his whole neck and head are being held down forcibly. Maybe that's why you're not able to realise what he's going through.
@GreenBayBreyerFarm It's not about looking good you cazzo. Riding a horse on the bit in the right way is not about where its head is, it's trying to help the horse to be more balanced (since it has more weight on its front legs than on its hind legs naturally) by engaging the hind legs, and an effect of that is that the horse workes with its back, and an effect of THAT is that the horse lengthens its neck and the EFFECT OF THAT is that the horses head is more vertical. That's just the byproduct.
OMG! This makes me so sick. I never even knew of this until a friend told me...that is the problem. Most people are unaware of this abuse. It is all about education. Thank you for uploading this video. Now what can be done to stop it?
hyper flexion however is where the horse is ridden LRD for intervals of about 15 to 2 min intervals depending on the horse to improve strength and flexion, similar to circuit training where all muscles are used to build up all over strength rather that one area..
why in the name of god is almost every example of rollkur there using anky van grunsven as the example? and another thing, rollkur and LRD (low round and deep) are two separate things, rollkur is a very specific action where the horses head is glued to its chest. for example the pony Power and Paint at the pony euro's, hyper flexion is also slightly different to rollkur, rollkur is when the horse is ridden or lunged for prolonged amount of time in this position,
Excellent explanation! I searched the web and found your video about rollkur...it seems odd that anyone would even concieve of riding a horse this way. Thank you for taking the time to put this together. It's cruelty, and in time will be outlawed.
the rider is that anky person :( it looks soooo un natural its ok to have a horse on the bridle with there head in but not so much that its past vertical.....this is just shocking
it can seriously hurt the horse and i think it s a good idea to make a video saying how bad it is great video :) i couldn't believe that some people thumbs downed this video.....
@albykins anky might be a good rider but it hurts the horse. anyway if she uses rollkur she's obviously not good with horses because she doesn't have common sense and if she has to hurt the horse to make them look "beautiful" then she's an idiot, horses are gorgeous the way they are!
@TheGreatGumsy I have seen her in real life, in front of thousands of people she hopped on a GP horse that was bucking rearing and misbehaving for its rider and within 10 minutes it was performing passage, piaffe ect. She didnt use Rolkur and she had never seen or riden this horse before. If she can only make horses do piaffe by useing Rollkur than how did she do it infront of thousands of people? I have dicided that Rollkur or not I still think Anky is amazing.
This is so cruel to horses, its is completely un-natural, and I don't see why riders would want to use this technique, just because it makes the horse look 'fancy' or 'posh' or 'supple'. I don't see how the horse knows where its going! its facing the fucking floor! Its really shocking to see riders on the television as well who do actually make their horse's head nearly touch their chest! I can see why people would want their horse to go on the bit, but not so it's chins on its fucking chest!!!
Dressurreiten ist doch für Pferde einfach nur traurig. Winkelt doch einfach mal euren Kopf an euren Körper an und rennt dann mal drauf los. Pferde, die ihren Kopf so verrenken müssen, erleiden später sehr warscheinlich einen Kieferbruch oder sie renken sich das Genick aus. Bei einer solchen Kopfhaltung kann das Pferd meist nur noch 50% atmen. Die Folge sind erhöhte Herzschläge und später das Risiko eines Herzstillstandes...
2:39, if i ever met that person...I'd floor them, stick a bit in their mouth and see how the fuck they liked it...then i'd most likely chuck them in a dark hole somewhere...
@juska256 That's Anky van Grunsven, supposed to be one of the best dutch dressage riders...I'm from the Netherlands too but I think her riding style is awful, I hate it when people abuse animals like this.
@juska256 I don't understand, if you know anything about dressage, why don't you recognize anky?
And I don't understand why everyone is so mad, yes it looks unnatural, but a horse weighs 500kg and anky only weighs 50kg, so if the horse really didn't want to do it, it wouldn't do it. It's physically impossible for someone who weighs 1/10th of the horse's weight to 'pull' the horse down like that.
@saminiky I have seen a rider who weighs 1/10 of the horses weight TRAIN a horse to endure many abuses, or are you aware of what some horses are made to do? Tennesee Walkers must be checked in shows to see if caustic chemicals were used to 'animate' their gaits, and the horses are taught to stand still and not flinch reguardless of pain, I have observed horses bein trained in this manner with my OWN eyes, and seen horses that will not flinch as they are trained not to.
@KelticGypsy you make a very good point with the 'Just coz the animal is trained to endure the abuse is no proof that it isnt abuse'. that's very true. I didn't know that people trained their horses to endure pain. I'm from belgium, we don't have tennesee walkers here.
@saminiky I guess that is why Rolkur bothers me so, used to Dressage was ONE riding discipline that hadnt changed since the days of Xenophon, and was cruel-fad free. Until Rolkur.
@saminiky To be honest, I have never personally witnessed the level of abuse with any other 'discipline' as I have seen with gaited horses in my own country, for what they call the "Big Lick.' These horses are painted with caustic chemicals to 'encourage animation of the gaits' and bbs and nails are put between shoes and hooves as well, none of which is admitted to of course, but I can vouch for it as I have witnessed these things personally.
@KelticGypsy omg that's awfull! I know they put pieces of ginger in an arabians ass, to make it lift it's tail. But putting chemicals on legs and nails between hooves and shoes, that's even more disgusting!
@juska256 that;s anky van grunsven. I'm ashamed to be dutch everytime i see her ride clinics or championstuff. I dislike so bad. I myself ride loose. I do not really do dressage only the stuff that is good for the horse like helping it balance and stuff. But never like they ride now. If you look back to the old day horse never went that deep they even have there heads high to win dressage compatitions... so what happend? They should look back to the old days... not make them pretty... and hurt.
if a horse goes pretty bent, but when the horse has to bend anyira already ugly, and it is not unhealthy ...!
sorry for the mistakes, but I'm Hungarian and English learners.
horses5323 3 days ago
Awful, I wonder whether those people ever think about their HORSE instead of thinking about winning some stupid competition.
BartDriessen92 4 days ago in playlist Liked videos
nice
JoelSu98 1 week ago
But she never makes me ride my horse in rollkur (or else I would probably look for a new coach lol)
Kiathira 1 week ago
I asked my coach about this whole rollkur-issue and she said that these days people have totally the wrong idea of how to ride a proper rollkur. That it is done too tight, for too long, too aggressive and for the wrong reasons.
Kiathira 1 week ago
She said in the means of classical dressage, a rollkur should be ridden rollkur on a long rein, so that it is asked/encouraged to move in hyperflexion, rather than forced into it with harsh reins. And it should be done for only about 10 to 30 seconds, which is the average time for any stretching exercise. IS THIS TRUE?
Kiathira 1 week ago
@Kiathira in my opinion a horse should NEVER go overbent behind the vertical line. its painful for the horse and it can´t see anything. it also doesn´t work proparly when its head is behind the vertical line. i think rollkur is animal cruelty. and it should never be used in any exercices. and that´s what everyone i know that is involved with riding says.
BetzkiNilzki 1 week ago
say no to rollkur .! ;/
ThinioViki 1 week ago
in all competions this is banned in the ring and in the warm up ring. you can get barred from comps for 5years if your caught using it. but what happens in privite no-one can stop. im personally against it because its unnatural and ruins a horse and there future carrea.
LetsFlyOnceMore 2 weeks ago
It was even criticized in Black Beauty book...
Amulinka 3 weeks ago
meu Deus q horror :(
leticiagiovanna100 3 weeks ago
It's great that you have noticed such a thing! I don't know this no longer takes place but I hope not. I don't know how I have previously been unable to keep such issues with a beautiful.Now that I have looked this video it seems to me that I feel sick. And now everybody, let's save the horses! (:
Marizqu 3 weeks ago
@TheCrosscountryfreak Dr. Gerd heuschmann, a german veterinarian, made a petition against rollkur/LDR that was signed by thousands of people. He took that to the FEI, where the FEI completely ignored it and his several letter attempts. The FEI changed their rule guides making the rollkur and similar training methods okay. He has written a fabulous book comparing classical dressage to modern day dressage.
fancime44 4 weeks ago 2
normal traditional dressage is fine i approve of it but rollkur... just horrible :(
TheCrosscountryfreak 4 weeks ago
Rollkur is horrible! but as @TheChopsinator has said it will not stop if we keep giving these terrible riders medals. THERE HAS TO BE A WAY WE CAN STOP IT!! does anyone know of any anti -rollkur patitions or something? please tell me and the others who are kind and love their horses
TheCrosscountryfreak 4 weeks ago
@TheCrosscountryfreak How to stop it? Don't buy any horses from these people. Don't buy from their lines. Don't support the things they use or products they endorse. The only voice people hear is money. Vote with your dollars. Know what you're buying.
TheChopsinator 1 week ago
I believe a horse should be ridden within its natural structure. anything else is strictly for fashion, a pleasantry to the human eye at the horses expense. In my eyes; thats an unnecessary cause for pain and therefore; cruel. I, personally, think this is horrid, as is the western "peanut" rolling. If you have to chalk your horses mouth full of metal and contort its body that way you are no true horseman and clearly cannot control it without these contraptions. Terrible.
OctoberArabian 1 month ago 3
Ouch, seeing the Dutch trainer hurts my pride as a Dutchie. I'm happy not everyone works this way! Rollkur should be a no-no on the courses. :(
JoeskaMG 1 month ago 3
and when you tell the people that they are doing something wrong, they get pissed and tell me I know nothing about horses ;)
Kathiemin 1 month ago
ive used this vid so many times showing people who use rollkur why its dangerous, thakyou!!x
EllaEquestrian 1 month ago
I HATE Rollkur! That is NOT how a horse is supposed to perform!
taylorluvshorses16 1 month ago
As long as they keep giving this crap gold medals, it will continue. Look at Andreas Helgestrand and Blue Hors Matine (my spelling is probably off). That was a happy horse and rider! Lost to Anky and her frothing, abused, robotic non-horse. Sick.
TheChopsinator 2 months ago 5
Please look up the clinic by Anky van Grunsven at Jumping Maastricht. Here she explains the rollkur exactly, how you explained it here is not the way it works. First read about things before you get to a conclussion. I don't ride like that, but now by getting more information about this form of ridding that it's not so bad as it looks.
steffaaap 2 months ago
@steffaaap Anky van Grunsven can be wrong. I'm not sure how she could go against science and common sense.
The49thparallele 4 weeks ago 2
omg this is sooo terrible!!!!ho rides like this is not a horselover!!!!!
lozeke123 2 months ago 3
Why do you think they use warmbloods? Traditionally bred for farm work? Try doing that to a Thoroughbred and see what happens. Half of them can't control their horses any other way and half of the others can't ride the traditional method.
I have ridden peanut rollers and never again, If my horse starts putting her head to low or goes behind the vertical I ether ask her to raise her head, put her back on her hind quarters and ask her to put her head back on the vertical and stretch into the bit
KDelilah08 2 months ago 4
terrible! :(
miazz2475 2 months ago
ilovemyjazzy1, peanut rolling is essential the horse being ridden with its head bellow the verticle. When I was showing, instead of the horse's head being around the height of the saddle horn, people would ride with the horse's head down by its knees or ankles. Keep in mind, this headset was maintained through all gates. They call it peanut rolling because the head is so low it looks like they are rolling something on the ground. Really messes up their body.
alythrae100 2 months ago 2
Ewww. I've trained in dressage, and rollkur is NOT good. It simply mimics getting a horse "on the bit" but really it's forced submission. It doesn't do anything for strengthening the horse's hindquarters, and it results in unhappy, uncomfortable horses. There are much better ways to achieve the classical dressage moves! Dressage used to be the sport that showed the utmost best horsemanship skills. ugh :( Poor horseys.
PlatypusProdigy 2 months ago 3
FromWishingDreams, I had the same issue. It wasn't until my final year in 4-H that the judges stopped placing peanut rollers higher up. Of course, by then I had given up on winning pleasure and was killing in every other class lol. On the bright side, my horse's body is still in top conditions while her competition's is, less than desirable lol
alythrae100 2 months ago
My wife was a groom for the 2004 Olympics and worked alongside Anky (the rider in some of these videos). Money and "Winning" does strange things to people. Animal abuse should never be tolerated.
amisixpdx 3 months ago 3
This is just as bad as peanut rolling (not sure if there is a more technical name) that I used to see when I was competing western where their head is WAY to low (usually round their knees or lower). This forced them to be heavy on the forehand and strung out in the back, completely unbalanced but riders thought it looked good. What a shame.
alythrae100 3 months ago 3
@alythrae100 Right? I always thought that looked ugly. I used to show and would always lose receive low scores and ribbons because my horse didn't maneuver that way.
FromWishingDreams 2 months ago
@alythrae100 What is peanut rolling?
ilovemyjazzy1 2 months ago
DannieFlintan my horse too has a natural tendency to go behind the vertical but you have to understand that this is simply hiding from the bit. Same kind of unacceptance as the ones that throw their head in the air but much more submissive response to simply get away from the bit. Try just riding forward, forward, forward and forget your contact at all for a while. After enough forwardness without very slight contact, she will start to try to find the bit but it will be a very slow change
sidellwork 3 months ago
dit is echt heel erg :'(
mensen dit is niet mooi meer
YooBoemBamYoo 3 months ago
My horse over bends occasionally, and although she doesn't do it all the time I'm still concerned because I don't want her in any pain. I don't ride heavily or have used any type of training aids, I push her into the contact as much as I can but she still does this. Any suggestions?
DannieFlintan 3 months ago
@DannieFlintan Make sure your hands are in the right place, hands too high cause too much torque on the bit and may cause slight overbending.Riding her with more leg than your contact allows may cause her to go on the forehand. This doesn't mean make your contact stronger, don't use your hands to position her head. Encourage her to seek the bit with a lowered head(slight contact), a light seay may also allow her to work through her back.
Glykyrrhiza 3 months ago
@Glykyrrhiza thanks for your help, I'll give it ago :)
DannieFlintan 3 months ago
Rollkur is horrible, the horse cnat breathe properly plus in the Dressage arena, they will lose points as they will be classed as Over bent
katnjas 3 months ago
we ride bitless :) its much better for the horse :) and whats better for the horse is better for me :) this crap is bs :(
jjahcspringer5 3 months ago
bravo to you for this. the world f you tube brought me to your page randomly, and i'm so thankful. Al the best., thank you for raising awareness. i'm into relationsips between humans and nature - and this is a lovely example of how humans will tell you they are moral whilst behaving immorally.xx
Mantajourneys 3 months ago
Someone took a half lease on my 5 year old once and started riding her like this. I never saw it first hand, but I heard about it and I could feel it in the mare's movement (disengaged, afraid of the contact, sucked back, etc). They're not allowed to ride at the barn anymore :3 It took me weeks to undo the damage the rollkur had caused in her training. This shit disgusts me.
TheEquestrianne 3 months ago
Now I just feel like go hug me horse :( I am very proud of not using any type of curel methods like that :(!
AugustaDenmark 4 months ago
This makes me feel so angry, horses were not created and tamed just to be treated like this! I wanted to start up eventing, since I jump and start dressage. But this is just not acceptable, I can't believe so many people believe this is beautiful, THIS IS UGLY... It digusts me unbeliably so much how these horses are being treated. In my eyes, beautiful is a natural, healthy, painless horse.
FlyingColors2211 4 months ago
western pleasure not better...see "Reichert Celebration" on youtube !
drorydressage 4 months ago
Wow... rollkurs are fucked up
missymatch123 4 months ago
It's about Modern vs. Classical dressage...in the modern world, it's all about how fast can we get at getting what we think is good, even if it's wrong and is painful. Rollkur has been used even in classical dressage, but modern dressage takes the element and trashes it and misuses it. This video truly demonstrates 'excessive rollkur'...
ForeverInLuvRA 4 months ago
Would "breaking at the poll" be considered rollkur? I ask for a slight curve of the neck but not pulling their nose practically to their chest
ArabianImages 4 months ago
@ArabianImages No, thats not rollkur.
Its a normal loosen the reins, its when the horse works properly with its back in a comfortably and normal form.
(Sorry for my english, from Sweden)
Andrea901016 3 months ago
@Andrea901016 ok thanks :)
and not a problem about the english. I know what you mean. I do a lot of communicating with people from foreign countries.
ArabianImages 3 months ago
we went wrong when we put the saddle on!
hyperfocus2011 4 months ago
@hyperfocus2011
Your mom went wrong when she gave birth to you.
faithandhorses 4 months ago
This is just disgusting. Why would you want to do that to such a wonderful animal? This is something that i'm strongly against. What kind of heartless creature would you have to be to do that?
ShinyMetalSpurs 4 months ago 2
Gadverdamme, ik ben Nederland en ik kan geen Engels, maar ik begrijp het nu wel. Echt zielig, als ik zo kijk, zijn er zat mensen op de manege waar ik ben die dit doen. Ertegen!!
RoosLoveHerco 4 months ago
@JustBecause110 and form a strong understanding for horse's, how they think, and natural horsemanship. Why take lessons with a trainer who breaks you down right? Even if I never go to another show, I just want to be able to communicate with horses the best I can in the most natural ways.
Equestrian08 5 months ago
@JustBecause110 I cried and vowed to never ever let her touch him again. And I haven't and never will. I'm also going to start taking lessons with a new instructor, I have continued to see bad horsemanship and bad character in her. I have no respect for anyone who is going to act like that and treat any horse that way. I was not enjoying my lessons either. Her and her mother both make me feel terrible almost everytime I ride with them. And I don't care about competing, I just want to have fun...
Equestrian08 5 months ago
I would hate to ride like that.. I don't like to see even a horse and rider with the horses head an inch under the perpidicular line... It would be like a horse with no head- A Slave.
Horses aren't my slaves.
JustBecause110 5 months ago
I hate rollkur... I cry ...
AnskuBanana 5 months ago
Comment removed
AnskuBanana 5 months ago
This horrified me and made me so angry. I've seen numerous other things from this same rider that is making me turn away from my riding lessons and decide to wait till I'm out of college to expand my dressage knowledge so that I can get a respectable trainer/instructor who is fair to their horses and actually treats them with respect.
Equestrian08 5 months ago
Rollkur is horrific. So was Anky really the one to introduce this method? I think dressage is beautiful when done properly and fairly for the horse. And I would love to master it. But my riding instructors daughter (supposed to also be a good instructor) rode my horse and tried to force him to do high level movements when he was not ready and did not understand. She was ripping his jaw off and whipping him so hard I could hear to whip cutting through the air. Trying to do a pirouette.
Equestrian08 5 months ago
@Equestrian08 Oh my god.. What did you do?
JustBecause110 5 months ago
Its not even pretty! Who would ever do this to a horse?
xxBasketballgirl211x 5 months ago
anke,wot a babe.she knows how to dominate her horse.
bighands1966 5 months ago
I know a horse trained with this method since she was 5, now she's 14 he has severe arthritis and is practically unridable, compared to my 23 year old who was trained properly and is still perfect at dressage.
CattanWolf19 5 months ago
Well this all doesn't matter. It's the prize that matters.
bamsgyrl 5 months ago
@bamsgyrl The prize that matters? It matters to this one horse. And it matters to all the others that have pain and arthritis in their neck and back.
JustBecause110 5 months ago
@JustBecause110 I guess you don't sense the sarcasm from my comment.
bamsgyrl 5 months ago
@bamsgyrl Sarcasm can't be seen in text.
JustBecause110 5 months ago
this idea- is the bad riders that are all well known..lots of people know that anky van grusen uses rollkur. and beginners may think that is what dressage is cause thats all theyve heard of. Lots of people DONT know that Blue Hors Matine was the greatest dressage horse ever!! Or who scored the highest score in the olympics last year. Nope- all you hear about is who used rollkur in the warm up arena. And thats all beginners are interested in. The bad stuff!! this is misleading...
hannahblackwolf14 5 months ago
I fell sick when I think of the people who do this to those poor horses :'( It doesn't even look good! I would do anything for helping this horses!
SteveLukatherForever 5 months ago 2
i hv always been told that the horse has to be round but up and forwards and not down below the bit...is that correct?!?!
bluebellrox123 6 months ago
This is horrific to look at! It doesn't even look good!
doyoureally95 6 months ago 28
As far as I can see right now, in a good piaffe, the horse kind of sits on their hindquarters, while a rollkur piaffe is kind of like the horse just switching feet. I could be wrong...can someone help?
2Hams1Omelette 6 months ago
I'm sorry, but I still don't understand how to spot a rollkur piaffe/trot/canter. Can someone help, even with just one explanation? Thank you.
Great video, by the way. Informational, but simple. :)
2Hams1Omelette 6 months ago
it looks unatural and ugly
oliviabodycomb 6 months ago 26
IT IS SO SO CUEL :*( i feel sooooooooooooooo sorry for the those horses :(
aihds 6 months ago 3
I don't think it looks nice or is good for the horse. i think it looks ugly :)
horsezrcool1 6 months ago 2
its completly medival its only bad because they know what they are doing to the horses that serves us and dont do anything about it. it isnt critical to horse training there are better ways to train a horse and a better way to become good riders and this is not it.
horsescanter 6 months ago 3
unnatural , painfull and you forgot , unnessasery
mehavebesthorse 6 months ago 2
I also wonder about breathing and swallowing... maybe that is why there is so much "foam" - can the horse not swallow?
ridinraffles 6 months ago
You have raised some very important issues, which I have have noticed myself. Most importantly, that the horse can not see where it is going in rolkur. That in itself should be enough to dissuade anyone from attempting the method. Also, that there becomes a lack of engagement in the hind legs, especially during the extended trot, is a trend I have noticed. It is one thing to ask a horse to stretch and flex, and quite another to force them to stay in a compromised position.
ridinraffles 6 months ago
rollkur is FUCKED UP
scarletandreb 6 months ago
oh my gosh! i just can' t believe anky van grunsven uses such methods!!!!! :-((( i am totally disappointed..... thank you very much for creating this video!
efsulotions 6 months ago
cruel and unjustifiable, all for the vanity of the rider and the so called sport, once again, the horse suffers at the hands of humans
jimmybee49 7 months ago
Great video to explain a terrible training technique
crazyeightbar 7 months ago
this is a totally barbaric act. This is so wrong and should never be allowed. Trouble is all the morons who want a short cut to what they think is dressage are likely to try it. Dungeons to good for them how about hung draw and quarter." i love my horse" you must be joking
Tybell1na 7 months ago
I'm not here to give an opinion about rollkur but to anyone who is hating anky vangrunsven, watch: watch?v=MPJGEzI3aIc and tell me she is a bad rider. If you say that's a shitty rider, who forces here horse, you are just jealous!
saminiky 7 months ago
@saminiky she is idd not a bad rider...on the contrary even...but it makes it even more sad that a rider like her resorts to these cruel methods coz titles and money are more important to her apparantly.....I feel ashamed she's from my country and jealous? hell no: I'd rather spend a few more months training a horse the right way then to lower myself in using this kind of methods.....
DutchHorseAdventures 6 months ago
@DutchHorseAdventures ik heb net je eerste post gelezen, ik had eerst alleen het vervolg bericht gelezen. Ik ben van België dus we verstaan elkaar wel in het nederlands :-) weet je waarom ze zich wend tot zulke methodes? Omdat ze op topniveau draait en daar moet alles snel gaan en moet er resultaat zijn. Dat willen de mensen die er geld 'inpompen'. Ik heb een tijdje gewerkt op een gekende showjumping stoeterij en wat je daar te zien krijgt tart soms ook alle verbeelding.
saminiky 6 months ago
@saminiky ja helaas is de sport deze kant opgegaan en ik besef heel goed dat op haar niveau de eigenaren/sponsors snel resultaat willen zien. Maar persoonlijk vind ik het verschrikkelijk en ik weet dat ik niet op haar niveau kan rijden en ook nooit zal halen, maar als dit de manier is wil ik dat ook niet eens. Heb zelf een tijdje met dravers gewerkt en zoals je al aangaf met die jumpingstoeterij waar je hebt gewerkt, zag je ook daar dingen die voor het dier gezien echt niet door de beugel konden
DutchHorseAdventures 6 months ago
@DutchHorseAdventures ja als het op geld aankomt moeten de dieren het bekopen. Maar wat mij stoort is de houding van iedereen ten opzichte van Anky, ze heeft hard moeten werken om zo ver te raken en iedereen schrijft hier comments alsof ze het allemaal beter kunnen en alsof anky haar paarden niet graag ziet. Ik ga niet akkoord met rollkur maar er moet wel gezegd worden dat Anky niet constant haar paarden met de neus tegen de borst rijd.
saminiky 6 months ago
@saminiky and why would I'd rather spend a few more months doing the training the right way? well as was said in this video, because with rollkur the hindquarters are no longer doing the work anymore but the front and it makes the hindquarters look stiff and tbh has made dressage ugly because these horses look stiff and sore...which they probably are...and thats why people are dissing Anky because she is ruining horses with this method
DutchHorseAdventures 6 months ago
@DutchHorseAdventures have you seen the vid I was talking about? Sorry but people here dissing her, can't ride a horse like that, and they ride the 'right' way.
saminiky 6 months ago
@saminiky ja daar heb je gelijk in...ken trouwens die video al....vind alleen: dootdat ze zo bekend ermee geworden is zijn er van die Anky wannabees opgestaan die helemaal niet weten waar ze mee bezig zijn en die het ook proberen...ook al zijn ze maar l2 dressuur...ik rijd nu een paard die door zo'n wannabee is gereden. Toen ik net op dr reed was ze zo verschrikkelijk stijf en gevoelig in dr rug hierdoor. Is nu na 2 maanden niks van dr vragen maar dr gewoon als het ware losrijden de hele tijd al
DutchHorseAdventures 6 months ago
@saminiky een stuk beter nu. Ze is weer los en praktisch niet gevoelig meer. Nu het laatste stukje in dr rug nog en dan kan ik eindelijk serieus met dr bezig :D Maar wat je zegt over de comments hier is inderdaad waar. Maar dr zijn zowiezo van die idioten hier op YT die zich gedragen alsof ze gelijk al z dressuur waren toen ze voor het eerst reden/ of anders wel op grand prix niveau springen. Zijn van die gasten die alleen maar boekjes hebben gelezen over rijden en geen echte ervaring hebben
DutchHorseAdventures 6 months ago
thank you for making this video! very informative!
Reiner727 7 months ago
OMG. Ew. This is gross
EventicElectric 7 months ago
that is soo cruel
horseriderponylover 7 months ago
This is such a good video.
Tese shitty , STUPID riders are absoloutly gonna be FLOORED , if ever i see them.
This is ABUSE.
Bestbuddies8 7 months ago 2
@juska256 if you actually look into rollkur you will realise that it actually closes the horses air ways substantially and in fear of suffocation the horse submits to its rider the 500kg the horse has no choice. so dont even try to argue for rollkur it a evil technique and no proper rider would ever use it.
WJMperformancehorses 7 months ago
@juska256 if you actually look into rollkur you will realise that it actually closes the horses air ways substantially and in fear of suffocation the horse submits to its rider the 500kg the horse has no choice. so dont even try to argue for rollkur it a evil technique and no proper rider would ever use it.
WJMperformancehorses 7 months ago
dear god that looks so painful. i have been riding my entire life and always wondered why people trained like this but i never knew it was an actual named "training" technique! absolutely disgusting and i agree with juska256, anyone who implements thee methods deserves to have them used on themselves and then tortured slowly to death. so horrible, the last clip you can see the pain in the horse just from the way he is trying to stay off the forehand because of the hyperflexion. this is horrible
baristaqueen420 7 months ago
This is a fantastic video. Horses allow us to ride on their back, they trust us and keep us safe, and what do we do? We pin their chins to their chests and hang onto the reins of a DOUBLE BRIDLE like they're just a bit of rope. HORSES FEEL PAIN TOO. I have lost all respect for Anky Van Grunsven and I feel terribly sorry for the horses she rides. Help our horses. STOP ROLLKUR. Thank you so much for posting this video.
RexRubyAce821 7 months ago
This is good and all (the video lol) but i think it causes confusion... Idiots see someone doing LRD and accuse them of roll kur and cause a lot of issues ... maybe you could explain the difference because LRD is good for a horse in moderation. horses cannot train in a high frame all the time andLRD is what you alternate with! Roll Kur sucks but it isnt LRD (Low Round Deep)
horzeryder 7 months ago
I really dont get how this is to be desired in high lvl dressage...the classic way where the head is vertical or at least rly close to it looks way better and gives a way more relaxed look....the way kurs are ridden looks just rly painfull for these poor horses...and when I learned to ride( well still a going on progress since in riding you keep learning etc) I was told that going behind the vertical was wrong and NOT to be desired
DutchHorseAdventures 7 months ago
i have a 5 yo haflinger and because of her enourmous neck, i am teaching her to have a relaxed neck, more like an arched swan neck. not bunched up like those poor horses with their fucked up riders. id like to put a double bridle on them and see-saw their heads off so they can feel the pain.
DinosaurBuddies1 8 months ago
Thanks for the video... I would like to add that the trainer I use is German and lived and trained in Germany before moving here. He has many accomplished students and he always has us riding forward to the hand NEVER nose in chest so I dont think of it as one countrys bad teaching but it does seem to be spreading. Maybe education wil help.
Thehorseofcourse1 8 months ago
This is anything but pretty. It looks absoultely painful. Hurts me just to watch. While, indeed, I do love the world of Dressage, I'll now have a constant thought ticking in my mind when I watch. It'll be hard not to start screaming if I actually spot someone using the Rollkur method on their horse. This is animal cruelty. And isn't this illegal? I could've sworn I read somewhere it was forbidden.
conversechick2012 8 months ago
2:35 onwards - it doesn't look elegant or harmonious or anything, in fact it looks like they ought to be in the circus (and that's an insult to the circus!)
smfhorses 8 months ago
Being in an outline should be when the horse accepts the bit and moves forwards willingly. This is not accepting the bit, it is unnantural, forceful and wrong! Why would anyone to restrict and harm their world class dressage horse by using this horrible technique? Horse and rider are no longer partners, they are a master and slave!
Bubble734 8 months ago 2
Rollkur is nothing but wrong ..
Pinkythepinkone 8 months ago
I recently reopened an old dressage manual (published in 1976) and it's amazing just how different things are today. All the pictures in this old manual are of horses moving naturally, their heads on or just in front of the vertical (and otherwise, there is a comment saying that the horse's head is too close to or slightly behind the vertical, ie this is a bad thing). I no longer aspire to ride "like the greats" who are winning in dressage today. I love my horse too much.
Nicole7Queshua 8 months ago 2
I have no problem with the horse being on the bit, I once rode a horse that would go on the bit willingly and without being asked, but this is too much. A horses head should not be tucked all the way down to their chest. Much too painful.
Nature1228 8 months ago
I'm sorry but this is cruelty. These horses' heads are definitely NOT where they're supposed to be when they're on the bit. First and foremost, this does not look anything like beauty to me. It's horrific. The horse looks bunched up and just look at their eyes! They look sad and in pain, Second, when a horse is on a light contact and on-the-bit, their head should be slightly down and in, there nose pointing to their chest or parallel to the chest, not TOUCHING the chest!
romeoiona 8 months ago 34
I think everyone wants to see this
wwwdotyoutubedotcom/watch?v=I5KIL6HjXP4
The horse couldn't take the rollkur anymore and flipped
Ipodmoeilijk 9 months ago
@Ipodmoeilijk
Link doesn't lead anywhere
juska256 9 months ago
jezus niet normaal
lisafifty 9 months ago
I will tell you the sercet of Rollkur, trainers use this to restrict oxygen to the brain of the horse the horses throax closes up. With less oxygen to the brain the horse then becomes calm and lightheaded and slows down because of to much carbon monoxide in the blood then the horse learns to be submissive to the rider's every comand because of fear of suffcation. Just like when a lion attacks a zebra it will go for the throax and then the drop down so liken these people to beasts of the feld.
LORIM8810 9 months ago
THANK YOU! I hate rollkur, and it doesn't even look "pretty", as some people stupidly think. That is why I do classical dressage that focuses on engaging the horse's entire body while keeping them soft and supple.
EquusDream 9 months ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@EquusDream
I think it's very pretty. Does that mean I'm stupid? No. I keep my horse's head right about at his chest and he looks beautiful.
GreenBayBreyerFarm 9 months ago
@GreenBayBreyerFarm Whoa ^^ No, that doesn't mean your stupid, and I can see why you would say it is pretty. But holding your horses head in to his chest for more than a few minutes at a time can be very damaging. The "pro" riders who use this technique to enhance their horses movements only do it for short amounts of time. This position requires a lot from a horse--it's like ballet. You wouldn't expect a ballet dancer to walk around on pointe for hours. Same goes for your horse. Use sparingly.
AdoptAPet44 8 months ago
@GreenBayBreyerFarm You are a savage and horrid monster. Why would you ever harm a horse and make them suffer? How 'bout I shove your neck down to your freaking chest for a few hours? It'd be oh-so "beautiful", no?
RevanMahariel 8 months ago
@RevanMahariel Look, you loser. Rollkur, it's positiong a horses head, in my eyes. Who cares? It's not cruel. I love my horse, and I would never do anything to hurt him. <3 So what? I keep his head near his chest. BIG DEAL. It's for our own good.
GreenBayBreyerFarm 7 months ago
@GreenBayBreyerFarm Really? You love your horse? You say you'd never inflict harm upon him? Then why are you subjecting him to something like this? Do you not understand how deterimental it is, both physically and mentally? He may not be showing his pain and/or resisting because he has little choice, since his whole neck and head are being held down forcibly. Maybe that's why you're not able to realise what he's going through.
RevanMahariel 7 months ago
@GreenBayBreyerFarm It's not about looking good you cazzo. Riding a horse on the bit in the right way is not about where its head is, it's trying to help the horse to be more balanced (since it has more weight on its front legs than on its hind legs naturally) by engaging the hind legs, and an effect of that is that the horse workes with its back, and an effect of THAT is that the horse lengthens its neck and the EFFECT OF THAT is that the horses head is more vertical. That's just the byproduct.
IDontCare704 4 months ago
it doesn`t even look nice : \
i mean if a horse holds it`s head like that or the piaffe it looks so wierd
man i can`t believe i was proud of anky (i`m dutch)
not anymore!
14imke 9 months ago 2
Wow. Idiots. I hope the horse tramples them to death.
luvmyhorse11 9 months ago 3
This is AWFUL. there is a special place in hell for the pople who do this.
and they will go to hell, and i home they suffer a LONG, PAINFUL, BLOODY death, because that is exactally what they deserive.
Romeosgirl4ever 9 months ago 2
OMG! This makes me so sick. I never even knew of this until a friend told me...that is the problem. Most people are unaware of this abuse. It is all about education. Thank you for uploading this video. Now what can be done to stop it?
Larzabeth 9 months ago
This makes me very sad. Crippling horses. You just have to look at their eyes to see how distressed they are.
sequoia39 9 months ago 3
however i am not in any way defending the use of rollkur, i do agree that its cruel and dangerous, and heavy handed,
GracieThinksVivaPink 9 months ago
hyper flexion however is where the horse is ridden LRD for intervals of about 15 to 2 min intervals depending on the horse to improve strength and flexion, similar to circuit training where all muscles are used to build up all over strength rather that one area..
GracieThinksVivaPink 9 months ago
why in the name of god is almost every example of rollkur there using anky van grunsven as the example? and another thing, rollkur and LRD (low round and deep) are two separate things, rollkur is a very specific action where the horses head is glued to its chest. for example the pony Power and Paint at the pony euro's, hyper flexion is also slightly different to rollkur, rollkur is when the horse is ridden or lunged for prolonged amount of time in this position,
GracieThinksVivaPink 9 months ago
Excellent explanation! I searched the web and found your video about rollkur...it seems odd that anyone would even concieve of riding a horse this way. Thank you for taking the time to put this together. It's cruelty, and in time will be outlawed.
Skippytrucking 10 months ago
the rider is that anky person :( it looks soooo un natural its ok to have a horse on the bridle with there head in but not so much that its past vertical.....this is just shocking
Gembo500 10 months ago
This is not OK! any one who supports this way of riding is a stupid piece of shit and a doosh bag!
HayleyBug552 10 months ago
@tulpi4427 how do you know if shes a good rider, or has even rode a horse at all? Get a life you doosh bag
HayleyBug552 10 months ago
@juska256 same thing here :(
HayleyBug552 10 months ago
it can seriously hurt the horse and i think it s a good idea to make a video saying how bad it is great video :) i couldn't believe that some people thumbs downed this video.....
tsugarcoated 10 months ago
I love Anky and Bonfire and I dont care if she uses Rolkur or not she still rides better than anyone who has commented on this video.
albykins 10 months ago
Comment removed
TheGreatGumsy 10 months ago
@albykins anky might be a good rider but it hurts the horse. anyway if she uses rollkur she's obviously not good with horses because she doesn't have common sense and if she has to hurt the horse to make them look "beautiful" then she's an idiot, horses are gorgeous the way they are!
TheGreatGumsy 10 months ago
@TheGreatGumsy I have seen her in real life, in front of thousands of people she hopped on a GP horse that was bucking rearing and misbehaving for its rider and within 10 minutes it was performing passage, piaffe ect. She didnt use Rolkur and she had never seen or riden this horse before. If she can only make horses do piaffe by useing Rollkur than how did she do it infront of thousands of people? I have dicided that Rollkur or not I still think Anky is amazing.
albykins 10 months ago
@albykins alright im not trying to make enemys with you im just saying wat i think:)
TheGreatGumsy 10 months ago
@TheGreatGumsy same, thats why i said it.
albykins 9 months ago
@albykins alright thnx for understanding:) she's a good rider but i still get mad some times:)
TheGreatGumsy 9 months ago
@TheGreatGumsy Agreed then.
albykins 9 months ago
This is so cruel to horses, its is completely un-natural, and I don't see why riders would want to use this technique, just because it makes the horse look 'fancy' or 'posh' or 'supple'. I don't see how the horse knows where its going! its facing the fucking floor! Its really shocking to see riders on the television as well who do actually make their horse's head nearly touch their chest! I can see why people would want their horse to go on the bit, but not so it's chins on its fucking chest!!!
crackers1471 10 months ago
Dressurreiten ist doch für Pferde einfach nur traurig. Winkelt doch einfach mal euren Kopf an euren Körper an und rennt dann mal drauf los. Pferde, die ihren Kopf so verrenken müssen, erleiden später sehr warscheinlich einen Kieferbruch oder sie renken sich das Genick aus. Bei einer solchen Kopfhaltung kann das Pferd meist nur noch 50% atmen. Die Folge sind erhöhte Herzschläge und später das Risiko eines Herzstillstandes...
GreenDayFreakForever 10 months ago
2:39, if i ever met that person...I'd floor them, stick a bit in their mouth and see how the fuck they liked it...then i'd most likely chuck them in a dark hole somewhere...
juska256 10 months ago 33
@juska256 well, her name is Anky van Grunsveen. Knock yerself out
aSignificanceBox 10 months ago
@aSignificanceBox
I'll knock her out if she's not bloody careful. -fumes- There's a special place in hell for people like that
juska256 10 months ago
@juska256 Anky Van Grunsven. so called "queen of Dressage".
Go on get her, ill back you up .
StarringTenTen 9 months ago 3
@StarringTenTen
The paramedics wont know what to do with her when im done
juska256 9 months ago 2
@juska256
It's Anky van Grunsven. The horse is Bonfire. Now she got a new champion: Salinero.
I really hate Anky for this. First I was a fan when I was like 8 years old but I quikly understood that this kind of training is animal cruelty
Ipodmoeilijk 9 months ago
@Ipodmoeilijk
What's happened to Bonfire now, though?
juska256 9 months ago
@juska256
I think (remember) that Bonfire is now still on her land but doesn't work anymore.
But I'm not sure, maybe on wiki
Ipodmoeilijk 9 months ago
@juska256 That's Anky van Grunsven, supposed to be one of the best dutch dressage riders...I'm from the Netherlands too but I think her riding style is awful, I hate it when people abuse animals like this.
GameFreakBart 8 months ago 2
@juska256 I don't understand, if you know anything about dressage, why don't you recognize anky?
And I don't understand why everyone is so mad, yes it looks unnatural, but a horse weighs 500kg and anky only weighs 50kg, so if the horse really didn't want to do it, it wouldn't do it. It's physically impossible for someone who weighs 1/10th of the horse's weight to 'pull' the horse down like that.
saminiky 7 months ago
@saminiky If it's such a great training method, why did the FEI ban it last year?
CameoRose 7 months ago
@CameoRose did I say that it was a great training method? NO. I was saying that it's physically impossible for a human to force a horse like that.
saminiky 7 months ago
@saminiky I have seen a rider who weighs 1/10 of the horses weight TRAIN a horse to endure many abuses, or are you aware of what some horses are made to do? Tennesee Walkers must be checked in shows to see if caustic chemicals were used to 'animate' their gaits, and the horses are taught to stand still and not flinch reguardless of pain, I have observed horses bein trained in this manner with my OWN eyes, and seen horses that will not flinch as they are trained not to.
KelticGypsy 7 months ago
@KelticGypsy ... to continue the comment.... Just coz the animal is trained to endure the abuse is no proof that it isnt abuse.
KelticGypsy 7 months ago
@KelticGypsy you make a very good point with the 'Just coz the animal is trained to endure the abuse is no proof that it isnt abuse'. that's very true. I didn't know that people trained their horses to endure pain. I'm from belgium, we don't have tennesee walkers here.
saminiky 7 months ago
@saminiky I guess that is why Rolkur bothers me so, used to Dressage was ONE riding discipline that hadnt changed since the days of Xenophon, and was cruel-fad free. Until Rolkur.
KelticGypsy 7 months ago
@saminiky To be honest, I have never personally witnessed the level of abuse with any other 'discipline' as I have seen with gaited horses in my own country, for what they call the "Big Lick.' These horses are painted with caustic chemicals to 'encourage animation of the gaits' and bbs and nails are put between shoes and hooves as well, none of which is admitted to of course, but I can vouch for it as I have witnessed these things personally.
KelticGypsy 7 months ago
@KelticGypsy omg that's awfull! I know they put pieces of ginger in an arabians ass, to make it lift it's tail. But putting chemicals on legs and nails between hooves and shoes, that's even more disgusting!
saminiky 7 months ago
@juska256 that;s anky van grunsven. I'm ashamed to be dutch everytime i see her ride clinics or championstuff. I dislike so bad. I myself ride loose. I do not really do dressage only the stuff that is good for the horse like helping it balance and stuff. But never like they ride now. If you look back to the old day horse never went that deep they even have there heads high to win dressage compatitions... so what happend? They should look back to the old days... not make them pretty... and hurt.
wolfje92 7 months ago
@juska256 thats anky van grunsven the sad thing is..is that she is the best dressage rider in the world:/
ilovepreciousjim2 7 months ago
This is disgusting. These people should be locked in a dungeon! Whatever happened to natural riding?
23dewart 10 months ago 23