It's sad how such a strong-hitting man has turned his mind around on principles that just take some actual dedication to learning and understand of how they work to go to God instead of it explaining just how complex life is and the mountainous buildup through Evolution to us it has been. These are not arguments for a God, but reasons why there is so much life in existence.
@vidarmoose Even if he was senile, hes probably smarter than you and me will ever be! People should be openminded for "new" views and theories. Somthing that science accused religious people of, is now being practiced by themselves. Sad. I think we are close to the answer and i think creation is more reasonable than random reaction. If you have a problem with "god", then call it just a higher intelligence. Well i guess thats also a problem because noone can be smarter than you right?! ;)
@Sybarel speak for yourself, I for one will dare to say that when I'm old & my life is through I'll have beaten whatever "ounce" of intelligence this guy abandoned. It's the whole concept that buggs me, being fundamentally disproven since there is nothing OF THAT NATURE that holy books describe as a god ANYWHERE in the world nor known universe. You make weird assumptions, tons of incredible intellects have already existed far beyond my own, religion just didn't cultivate any of them
@Sybarel82 "Somthing that science accused religious people of, is now being practiced by themselves." How so? That's completely untrue. CONFIRMED proof of microbial evolution, the transitional fossil record, and otherwise has exploded in the last 2-3 decades. They just discovered a new pit viper in Africa today and barely a day passes that some new species isn't found or fossil record uncovered. What is more, human DNA is hardly complex by comparison. Science is open-minded to FACTS.
@BillofRightsBrutus . . . well, why do you still call the Facts "Theories" then?! Evolution, Big Bang. . . Because they are not 100% proven and never will. I'm not saying they are completly wrong, but sth is missing. The beginning is missing!
@Sybarel82 It's this simple. Evolution is demonstrated through microbiology and transitional fossils. There is NO disputing that. What is more, even the NASA web site conveys what is known by physicists; namely the UNIVERSE is roughly 14 billion years old, is constantly expanding with its boundaries evidenced by red shift/radiaton, and began from began with the big bang from little more than natural quantum fluctuations in a vacuum of NOTHING. Flew contradicts NONE of that.
@Sybarel82 He merely states things look complex so that is evidence of god. That is FUCKTARDED. You anti-evolution people are infuriating. You can't make up your minds. Thirty years ago the argument was "well, that's a nice theory, but there are too many gaps and not enough transitional proofs." Then, after decades of science putting up the proofs it all looks so nicely arranged that theists state god must have done it, totally ignoring the principles that predicted the fossils later found. DUMB
@Sybarel82 You can't prove god EXISTS never mind was the catalyst for the big bang or anything physics demonstrates, nor the cause of the natural processes of organisms, evolution, placement of planets in solar systems that are conducive to life, carbon, carbon dioxide, oxygen, or anything else. You just throw god in there irrespective of god being necessary in the first place. Where is you proof of ANYTHING? Causality for God, when there is proof of NOTHING supernatural, is simply bullshit.
@BillofRightsBrutus . . . never said that there is a proof that god exists. . Thats my personal belief. But if you follow logic than you would know that tere can't be sth out of nothing. . I like science, but they will never find the answer to "why at all".
@Sybarel82 Look, I apologize for being abrasive, but you are totally mischaracterizing what science has proven and can show. That perpetuates people saying fuck it and they just never read or find anything out and science, in their mind, is in the same place it was the last time they gave a shit, which might be way back. Science has accomplished major things in the last 3 decades and America is getting crucified worldwide for being ignorant as to advances in it. It matters; it is the future.
@Sybarel82 Religion doesn't pay the bills. I've never seen it do anything supernatural what is more. I could tell you a list of horror stories of people on their way to church, including my own, but I won't. Peace. If you would like to learn some facts and where science is headed, check these out: mapDOTgsfcDOTnasa.gov/cosmology/cosmologyDOThtml watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo&list=PLCACB11D728DD2AC3&index=3&feature=plpp_video watch?v=bmQZ4f9f_Yw&list=PLCACB11D728DD2AC3&index=2&feature=plpp_video
@BillofRightsBrutus . . I'm glad the tone of our conversation calmed down a little. Look, I'm not a scientist, but i'm interrested in everything that comes along. I think there is a general problem between Deist's and Scientists and a leak of communication. I like people like Dr. Gerald Schroeder who puts up Deist theories based on scientific facts. If you haven't watched: /watch?v=LzetqYev_AI&list=LLs7njU4-PW30HCNv6HRjdSg&index=1&feature=plpp_video
@BillofRightsBrutus . . there are also manny paranormal phenomenons documented. Ever heard of 'Lady of guadalupe' for example?! One 'miraculous' appearence of Mary who left a 'solid' proof which can't be explained by science. Even more. . while science developed over the years, and investigations got deeper, only more questions appeared. I know, scientists have proplems to approach to such subjects. . . But why don't you give it a try ;) . . Peace
@Sybarel82 More than acutely aware. While I grew up "protestant", I went to catholic school most of my college prep years. I have probably read almost every document the Holy See has available on Fatima as well. I understand the position of the Catholic church, which is really where most people should begin if they want to make sense out of the "proofs" mainstream Christianity desires to offer. That said, they offer nothing to be subjected to scientific testing and scrutiny.
@Sybarel82 I spent part of 20 years investigating Christianity's, particularly catholicisms, offering of proofs. What is more, reading the works, in school and otherwise, of some of its greatest theologians, philosophers, and astronomers. Beyond that, countless contemporary writings. Believe me, you're not going to tell me anything that I haven't already read or heard advanced; particularly with respect to "supernatural" "proofs" or arguments for causality or otherwise. It's a puppet show.
@Sybarel82 There's nothing to "try" is my point. I grew up and live in a bible belt dominated by religion and theism; one that barely pays lip service to science or otherwise. Why is it you think every atheist has not considered religion to at least the extent, if not more, than you have? It's almost impossible for an American to not have even if they haven't made any real individual effort on their own. Sadly, the same can not be said for education and science. That's simply the truth. Peace.
And why do you people always have to criticize the bible as proof that there's no God...? Is that all you got? One religion out of all the thousands of years of humans existing? So one religion can speak for everyone that believes in a higher power? Of course, that justifies your douchebaggery. I'm a Deist. So try again before that's what you come at me with. :)
sorry the thing is that there is no evidence for god at all. You can't disprove something non-existent. I can't disprove Ted the invisible flying unicorn.
@MegaPamplemoose yeah, but Dr. Gerald Schroeder is a scientist. You're not. He's the one who turned Anthony Flew into a Deist. I'm guessing you're not a scientist. So maybe you should relax with the whole 'atheists are superior' attitude. 'The Big Bang' did not produce any matter. Not one single neutron, electron, or proton. It was LIGHT. Electromagnetic waves that stretched across the universe. So can you explain to me how all the processes that led to life are just random...? LMAO! Piss off.
World most famous atheist? Actually no. Funny thing is, at the time Flew accepted deism in his book, his mental health was declining; the book was written by someone else.
Proof that you need to be mentally damaged to believe in a God ;)
@jdd94 you dont need to be mentally ill to believe in God. I believe in him and i have no n\mental ill ness whatesoever. Good luck with you miserable life
I think he means mentally ill to honestly say you have a solid reason for believing a particular God.
That's different from not thinking about it, or just following what you've been told from birth, or being misled, which you don't have to be mentally ill to fall victim too.
I know many people who have almost destroyed there lives by misunderstanding the bible. They take thing to literary they think God is giving a direct command to them in the bible, but in actuality the commands that he puts in place to help his people throughout the bible, like the many rituals of the dead that prevented the spread of disease. Simply because they didn't know any better.
Atheist do not say that science proves there is no god. They say there is no proof of god. "look to me be to be the work of intelligence" is not the proof of intelligence.
You have a Theist who believes in God and science as one.
And you have an Atheist who thinks he knows science, but is really copy/pasting information from Wikipedia/quick searching scientific information from Google.
LAUGH OUT LOUDZ LOOOOLOLOLOLLLL
If you were an actual intelligent scientist, you'd realize that there is more to this world than what we can prove.
"WORLD MOST FAMOUS" whats this a competens, what will be you next upload: "RIPLEYS WORLD MOST FAMOUS " god is like parties your republican or democrat, your not bouncing now i belive the other day dont!
At some point I find it only mildly interesting when a lifelong atheist sees the truth.For some,this seems to serve as a sort of affirmation for those who believe in a God.My convictions are firm,this after study of the genome,the 50+ constants of nature, etc., etc.,What Flew, Dawkins, or others have to belch into the discussion is of little merit or consequence. Most atheists choose their path as an exercise of freewill rather than an unbiased review of the facts-as WI argues about stickers-LOL
@AlwaysDisagreeing There are also mantras for desire, for everything you want, but the most is for the inner strength and peace. If you like this way, then I suggest you to find the the man who knows correct pronouncing
of sanskrit, because its ancient language, and if mantra is not pronounced correctly it will have no effect.
@AlwaysDisagreeing Apsolutely wrong! Did you hear for the mantras? It is not prayer like christian prayer, its like when you call some person you type the number in phone and call? So mantra work in that way, you sent energy to deity or source which you like, and if it is correctly done, massive energy will come back to you. I tested and I am telling you from my experience, I wouldnt lie to you. Mantras are powerfull tool which are on sanskrit, and every letter has some energetic affect on you.
Flew converted 6 years before his death. He was still of sound mind and accepted God on a scientific basis rather than philosophical. If the same happened to Hitchens or Dawkins they would also be disgraced and ridiculed. It shows the pride of the non-believers.
@chenj001 Altzheimers and dementia start affecting your brain LONG before you die from it.
the fact that you hold up a scientist who's brain literally turned into swiss cheese, as some sort of victory for believers in nonsense, shows just how desperate and pathetic your belief system really is.
@chenj001 it IS true that religious people cling to random events and circumstances, as some sort of proof that the ancient mythology they embrace is true. the evidence against the creator/god stories is indisputable: the god protrayed in the bible simple does not exist, the actions and events attributed to it never happened. The morality portrayed in the bible, based on the human sacrifice of an innocent person, is the OPPOSITE of what is moral and right...
@chenj001 ...if there is a creator/god, then someday christians will have to explain how taking an innocent person off the street, severly beating him, and then executing him, in ANY WAY makes them innocent of any crimes they have committed? And how does pretending to eat the flesh of the human sacrifice and pretending to drink his blood accomlish ANYTHING?!
Christianity is a test: if you want your guilt put on the head of a human sacrifice, you FAILED THE TEST.
@MrHobiecat Did you, by any chance, learn of Christianity through an ardent non-believer? If Christ is not divine, then we are most surely the stupidest of all :D But if He is, then there will be hell to pay for those that hear but chose not to listen. In such a serious debate, I would please request that you refrain from using capital letters in such a manner, as it makes you look of a lower intelligence than I think you are. Show me this evidence and I'll cling to your every word :)
@chenj001 show you the evidence?! the bible says the universe was created in six days, with all life, 77 generations before the time of jesus. that puts creation around 4000BC. It says the world was flooded, wiping out all life, around 2500BC. It says all humans dispersed from babel around 2000BC.
The evidence against all these bible claims is well documented and indispuatble. The bible stories are so absurd they are not EVEN wrong, they are pure NONSENSE.
@chenj001 If the bible stories are true there will be hell to pay?! What are you? A child?!
Humans have come up with literally thousands of religions, and if you are not following the one that is true, then woe is you, right? There is no reason to think that ANY of them are true, esp christianity, which is based on a human sacrifice nailed to a stick, and the ritual of pretending to eat his flesh and drink his blood....
@chenj001 IF christ is not divine?! Jesus referred to both adam and noah as actual people, and the events surrounding the mythology of their lives as history. they are both even listed in his (two different) geneologies.
Jesus could not be a god, and not know that adam and noah never existed, and NOBODY can be the decendant of the characters in a parable/mythology story.
@MrHobiecat The question of dating is obviously a massive debate among Christians. To see if Christianity is true or false boils down to the resurrection of Christ, if this is true, then we can say with confidence that He is the messiah. We can see throughout the Old Testament (which is agreed among historians to have been written before the new) that there are many allusions and prophecies concerning Christ which He fulfills. You only need to name one that He does not for Christianity to fail.
@chenj001 where do you have ANY evidence that jesus fullfilled ANY of the old testiment prophecies?!
The people who wrote the NT stories could have written anything they wanted. the books were not published, not subject to peer review, and they were written long after everyone who had personally known jesus were dead.
and they HAD copies of the OT, all they had to do was write 'jesus did that, did that, did that too...."
@MrHobiecat actually, my closed minded freind, all the apostles were eye witnesses, thats the point. Only Paul was converted later. Just because your 8th grade science teacher said they weren't eye witnesses, doesn't make it so. I don't know were people got the idea to say that these days. Everyone always knew that they were eye witnesses, and no some people try to question that. Just read the Bible and find out for yourself. Don't believe idiots who tell you lies, chem it yourself.
@SnowBroProductions what apostles? the 12 apostles mentioned in the bible stories didnt WRITE ANYTHING. the first gosple written was mark, about 35 years after jesus died. The other three were written even later, and luke and matthew are simply embellisments of mark. the authors of the first three never met jesus in person, and the claims that john was written by the apostle john, would require him to be over 100 years old, when the average life span was 30 years.....
@SnowBroProductions ...but none of this has anything to do with the fact the gosples contain stories for which NO ONE was there to BE an eyewitness, and many of the stories take place BEFORE jesus met any of the apostles.
How do you explain all that, Mr OpenMinded?
I am so close minded I am only willing to deal with things that are REAL - im not interested in the mythology of ancient goat farmers, from ANY part of the world.
@chenj001 ...whats more, its clear in many cases the gosple authors were just making it up as they went along. For examples, WHO did luke interview to get the stories of jesus' birth? the things herod said and did in SECRET?! Luke wrote a whole chapter on things jesus said and did when jesus was suppose to be ALONE in the desert. WHO was the eyewitness to that event, that he 'thoroughly researched' ?!
The stories are obviously fabricated: ie NOBODY was there, just jesus and the devil!
@chenj001 getting back to your 'boils down to' statment, thats easy.
IF jesus came back from the dead, the produce him in person. dont tell me he left so he could go sit at his own right hand on a throne in heaven. What? Isnt there ANYTHING important for him to be doing here.
The bible stories are just like all other religions. They make all kinds of claims that have no substance, and make all kinds of promises that are never fullfilled.
@MrHobiecat The dead sea scrolls show the stories were not fabricated, although before they were uncovered atheists were expecting contradictions and the like :)
You can look into textural criticism if you are unsure about the Bible's validity and historical Christianity in reference to Luke's research. Non-christian writers such as Josephus and Tacitus show the validity of the Bible. Your eyes, my friend, are closed to any light, but I am sure there is much hope for you :)
@chenj001 The dead sea scrolls were written hundreds of years BEFORE jesus lived, and they have NOTHING to do with any aspect of christianity, or the life of jesus.
The paragraph in Joesphus referring to jesus being the messiah has been PROVEN to be a 3rd century addition, it is not in any other copies of his history of the jews, which was not written BTW until 100 years after jesus died.
there is no light in ancient goat farmer mythology - you are self deluded.
@MrHobiecat To say the dead sea scrolls don't have anything to do with Christianity shows you have made up your own version of Christianity, that is a fact. You also lack any evidence still and keep making claims. Josephus, if you care to research, is accepted by the overwhelming majority of modern historians both christian and non-christian. He never said that Jesus was messiah so your apparent source is also incorrect. When you actually do some research I'll reply.
@chenj001 so please explain: SInce all the scolls found together in the dead sea predate the birth of jesus by at least 100 years, how could they POSSIBLY have anything to do with jesus, his life, or the doomsday cult that arose after he was executed.
the forged joesphus edit referred to 'jesus, who was THE christ' as if joesphus himself believed it was true. the christ is another title for the expected messiah.
@MrHobiecat uh, little man, read the Bible and you'll know whats fulfilled. Over 1000 prophecies the Bible makes, and so far all of them are coming true. The Bible predicts international television, airplanes, everything. Interested? Read the Bible, you'll be amazed.
@SnowBroProductions I have read the bible many times, in many translations. I was raised (brainwashed) a christian, and the more I studied the bible the more I realized its nothing but pure human fabrication.
The prophecies you claim were fullfilled, esp concerning jesus are UN PROVEN. The people who wrote the NT had copies of the Old Testiment, and they could say jesus fullfilled ALL the prophecies concerning the messiah, because THEIR WRITING WAS NOT PUBLISHED AT THE TIME...
@MrHobiecat first, what all translations have you read? and why would the average life span be only 30 years when today it's 70-80 and cancers like 100xfold what it was then.
@ilikehotchiks because like 2000 years ago people didnt know ANYTHING about illness, disease, how the body works, how to deal with injuries.
you are ON the internet, do some research and stop making a fool in front of the whole world. The average life span of humans for the last couple thousand years is well documented and EASY to find.
@MrHobiecat Their diet was way better. way better environment, way more excersise. they lived some in the hundreds of years, disprove me with a link rather than harsh words. I'm 17 from MIchigan and am firm believer in the messiah. thousands of witnesses buddy not a scam. truth! he rose from the dead
@ilikehotchiks you are ON the internet, google human life span for yourself. If you want me to teach you online my fee is $200 an hour.
Thousands of witnesses?! HAHHAHAHA you really swilled the koolaid, didnt you? Where are the thousands of gosples, signed and dated?
If you think the gosples are eyewitness accounts, then WHO was the eyewitness that saw everything jesus said and did when he was ALONE in the wilderness for 40 days? Its in the gosple stories, so WHO was there with him?!
@ilikehotchiks do yourself a favor, take the book of luke and underline the part in chapter 1 where he boasts he is writing 'well reseached eyewitness accounts'. then as you read the rest of luke, ASK yourself who could the author of luke (written over 40 years after jesus died) have talked to that could have been an eyewitness to the things he wrote?
The geneology of jesus? The birth of jesus? Things herod said and did in SECRET? things jesus did BEFORE he met his disciples...
@ilikehotchiks ; The average lifespan in biblical times has been proven to be NOT MORE than 40 to 45 years. 10 years after chris`t (supposed) death, most of his disciples were dead.
@ndzoko BIBLICAL TIMES? thats a few thousand year period. if your talking about before the flood, your perhaps close. But before the flood, very longer in the hundreds.
@ilikehotchiks Speculation, jibberish, crap, nonsense. Never in the history of mankind was the average lifespan longer than today, unless you have prove to the contrary.
@ilikehotchiks I did some research. In biblical times the average age was no more than 40 to 45 years. Period. Abraham and Moses(if they ever existed) were no exception. Those two charakters must be considered fictious untill evidence for their existence is provided.
@ilikehotchiks LOL. so Judaism and Christianity sprung out of thin air, are a clever deception. ALso nothing happened before 1900 and you cant prove it to me. Im with you, unless i see or hear it, its not fact. no need in FAITH
@SnowBroProductions ..and by the time the gosples were written, everyone who had met jesus in person was DEAD. The average lifespan in the 1st century was only 30 years.
And unlike you, I am not making any personal insults against anyone here. You are suppose to be the temple of the living god?! HAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAAA!
Some sack of SHlT god you got coming out of your mouth there!
The existence of God IS a scientific question, and the conversion of a single man is not and can never be the proof that "science has discovered God". Nope, science is revealing more and more about reality everyday and none of it ever have to do with God
@2CSST2 You stated "The existence of God IS a scientific question"
and yet state "science is revealing more and more about reality everyday and none of it ever have to do with God"
No scientist worth a penny tries to prove God with science, you cannot use the objective to prove the subjective unless you think you can weigh yourself with a thermoter. Its the wrong tool.
Those who do it are insane. Yes they do it, like yourself.
@SnowBroProductions thanks for your reply, although who decides what is common sense? 500 years ago the world was flat, that was common sense. They were wrong, but it was common sense.
@myJesuslivesinme just for the record Christians always knew the world was round (says so in the Bible) but to answer your comment, knowing if the world is flat or round isn't as obvious as knowing that nothing can only make nothing. Lets not get into complicated questions (about the worlds and our universe) but come on, even little kids know, nothing can only make nothing.
@SnowBroProductions Please define nothing, and then define how nothing can define nothing. Knowledge, common sense and science are fantastic gifts and I am grateful for them, But the question of the existence of God is still philosophical. Open you mind to the philosophical and all this we question will begin to make sense.
Oh how they turn on their own. He changed his mind so hes got to be insane? COME ON PEOPLE. The dude looked at what was out there and decided there was enough info to draw a different conclusion.
I doubt anybody who put forth their opinions know this guy well enough to comment on his mental health, I sure don't so making ignorant statements really doesn't make you look very intelligent.
Flew got old, of course he's going to look for religion when his time nears. Fear will drive a man out of his sense of logic. Not to mention he may have had dementia
going by the title, I wonder how theists would feel if we publicized every conversion of theists becoming atheists. Given that atheists are the fastest growing group of people.
@Elififa We dont publicize every conversion of theists becoming atheists. If it gets publicized, then it wwas usually their choice. This is only publicized because it is close to the equivilant of the pope becoming athiest.
@TheKith88 its not an excuse, its the reality of the situation of the end of his life.
Dementia is always fatal, there is no cure, and patients eventually have to be locked up in a health care facility, because they no longer recognize their own SPOUSES or children, and often become violent towards their own family, thinking they are being held captive by strangers.
And you have to be an idiot to believe the Bible in the literal sense. Atheists often simply read the book and take it word for word (as do some Theists!), and that's what I call being "out of your mind". If you take the time to read the Bible carefully, and forget what the Church says, you'll find your own answers to your questions. God wants a connection with 'you'. He doesn't want the Church controlling 'you' through His word. But, different people = different mindset.
@JohnEliasOnSTEAM what questions?! the bible doesnt answer any questions.
it was written by people who claimed to be the exclusive priesthood of a god that created all life, 77 generations before the time of jesus. It claims humans rebelled and must be saved or face eternal doom.
the creation story is false, the need for salvation is false, therefore we dont need a human sacrifice nailed to a stick, and we dont need to pretend to eat his flesh and drink his blood...
@JohnEliasOnSTEAM ...if you get something else out of the bible, than the traditional christian dogma, who cares. Its nothing by the musings of ancient goat farmer tribemen who didnt know or understand ANYTHING about the nature of the universe, or the nature of life.
it has no value whatsoever, in fact if you apply it to your life it will destroy the only life you have.
"if you apply it to your life it will destroy the only life you have."
And how exactly will it do this? If you misinterpret the Bible, then yes, you're left with nothing but garbage. But the same goes for anything else. If you don't understand what's in front of you, then you will fail to understand its importance. Do you read philosophical texts and then assume everyone will have understood it the same way as you? No. Take the chance to read it and find your own meaning.
There is no list of 'most famous atheist", since atheism is NOT an organization, group, belief, or field of study.
Atheist are simply those of us who have studied other peoples claims of having interacted with a creator/god, and found them to be totally without merit.
And since there has never been a single credible claim of having interacted with a creator/god, the conclusion is that all religions are Kwrap!
Four common sense reasons why I think there is no god; A) Total absence from the natural world. No sign of a god, before, during or after, natural disastres B) The absolute absence of favoritism towards believers. Even chruches need lightning-rods to protect them from god. C) The absence of any reaction, when crimes are committed in his name. D) The suffering of the innocent. One could accept that the guilty must suffer, but children ???
@RespectMyHate Seriously, did you hear about the heavily Christian family that refused their child medical care when she had an acute asthma attack, and all they did was prey and prey (She died, just to let you know) I have links shows lots of cases of this happening.
@Tiger66261 Oh boy go away. Did you hear about the doctors who performed unnecessary procedures just to advance science only resulting in killing those they intended to help? This kind of argument is pointless and further insulting. No?
@vindicato15 Ok, how about ALL the advancements in science in medicine, vaccinations and machinery that have saved lives all over the world?
I dont see prayer having the same affect that our very own advancements in science and medicine have made.
Yes this is a pointless argument, because we already know medicine and science is proven the to work, and prayer is just a fucking fairy tale and does no-one any good.
@Tiger66261 Prayer has had positive impacts on recovery from surgeries, injuries, etc. The mayo clinic has performed several studies on this. As has the university of Tennessee. In all cases prayer has not proven negative but positive to recovery. Science is not infallible nor is medicine. There have been instances recorded where science and medicine where at a loss but prayer has had a impact on a patients well being and attributed to their survival. You dont know everything.
@vindicato15 Prayer is only proven to lower the patients blood pressure and reduce stress - it has NEVER been proven that a prayer has ever been answered or it has had a real effect on patients (e.g like a tumor disappearing)
Medicine and science has always been the for-front of saving lives. It is crazy that we are even having a debate on wether prayer works or not.
Its almost as if you think Prayer is better than taking scientific medicine or treatment.
@Tiger66261 Who said I need a argument? Oh wait you thought this was a debate? No this is me witnessing to you. I am the byproduct of prayer. I nearly died the doctors had given up on me. They said quote, "There is no hope that he will recover." I made a full recovery. No drugs no treatments no surgeries. I have made a complete recovery because many many of the brothers and sisters in the Christian community prayed for me. Where science failed God made a way.
@vindicato15 Ah yes, the whole "well I experienced it so I don't need arguments or proof" this is the exact same defence mechanism that UFO nuts and abductees do.
I also find it very hard to believe that these so called doctors didn't try any treatment, medicine or surgery and just flapped their hands and said "there is no hope that he will recover". It really sounds like a bad story.
@Tiger66261 Your assumptions show you lack of intelligence. I was in a severe car accident and went through the windshield. They determined if I did recover I would be severely handicapped at least or in a vegetated state. Defence mechanism hardly. By the way the doctor in question was a neurospecialist. I not only survived I am completely whole. Your doctors and scientists did nothing but expect the worst. Frankly adhominem and straw man tactics show me your desperation for argument.
@vindicato15 My assumptions are based of what you previously told me - that's why I'm asking questions.
And like I said, it is a Neurospecialists job to do diagnosis and treatment. I still find it very hard to beleive that they just threw up their hands and didnt even do any treatment and medicine. And also, did you have a Life support system?
Also, care to be specific? What assumptions and "strawman tactics" did I do?
@Tiger66261 Yes the specialist did indeed say I was a soon to be vegetable. I do not know what they had me on at the time of my condition. My family had decided that if the doctors where unable to do anything then to take me off the machines they had me on. The doctors to this day find it remarkable that I regained my senses and made a full fledged recovery. As the extent of my injuries normally resulted in vegetated states.
@vindicato15 You don't know what they had you on at the time of your condition?
So let me get this straight, you know that the doctors said "there is no hope for you blah blah you will turn into a vegetable" but you don't even know what life support systems/ treatments or therapies they had on you?
I can guarantee that the doctors will at least have tried several different medicines/treatments and that you were probably hooked up onto a life-support system given you needed a Neurospecialist.
@Tiger66261 You must do it often because if you look down the range of comments you have made you've done it quite a bit. Not to mention you really do like to hear yourself talk alot.
@vindicato15 i have looked down the comments and I have done it once.
It seems you lack any argument and you seem to be unable to actually converse about the original matter at hand - you instead make petty attacks that I'm a spammer.
@Tiger66261 Yes the great mighty arguments you have made which equate to I dont believe we got ya the first 25 times you said it. You make the same argument over and over again. The age old if you repeat the same ole same ole all the time then it must be true arguments you've made. Most sensible people call them what they are "spam"
@Tiger66261 "also care to be specific" Making allusions to ufo nuts. Clearly straw man tactics. Frankly I dont care if you believe me or not as I am the one who lived through the experience.
Common man`s reasons why god does not exist A) total absence from from natural events, No sign of a god before, during or after natural events. B)The total absence of favoritism towards believers. Even church steeples need lightning rods for protection against god.C) The absence of any reaction, when crimes are committed in his name. D) The suffering of the innocent. E) Why have humans more problems birthing, than animals ? Aren`t we his masterpiece ?
what? im not half a scientist but i can clearly see how this perfectly proves abiogenesis. there is no reason to discredit these finding just because the formed amino acids were present, they just made the process a bit more probable to occur. im sure that with enough time these self replicators would have been generated anyway (as u know there is no lack of time). at least from here, do u agree that evolution could take us to the present life forms?
Autocatalysis was nothing even close to abiogenesis. They put already fully formed amino acids and AATE together and the AATE were able to partially catalyze themselves. This is nothing even remotely close to abiogenesis and to even say that it is shows how little you looked into Dawkins claims, there is a reason why this hasn't been accepted as a proof of abiogenesis and that is because it isn't even close
To me, whether or not there is a creator, is a boring question. Yes it is a wonder how nature and the origin of live has emerged, but that's it. Deism does not tell me anything about the afterlife, the universality of morale, the importance of art, love, or anything human - at all.
Why should there be anything? It defies the second law of thermodynamics (the universe is winding down). It is the existance of ANYTHING at all or BEING that proves the existance of God. Evolution is just one mechanism and anyone who can't see there has been evolution in life forms is a moron. But evolution in no way takes anything away from a compelling argument of God - or the singularity.
i guess he became senile old man... coz science can account for the complexity in nature wihtout invoking dieties (so i dont see why he became convinced of god when he put his trust in science). if science couldnt account for this complexity it would have admited or at least suggested a designer, which it obviously doesnt
@the1qb i beg to differ - dawkins in the 'ancestor tale' tells of a series of experiments where someone successfully created something that resembles genome (it was a very basic self replicating molecule) in a sterile environment. he put inside the basic materials that were sure to exist before life begun, and he electrocuted it. some ooze appeared to propagate. self replicating molecule is sufficient for evolution to start working, and to the theory of abiogenesis be proven. here u go
wrong, he was an atheist and became a deist. Look it up, also read his last book he wrote a few years ago before he died, he died with the same beliefs...deism. his book "there is a god".
Don't be fooled, Flew still believed in evolution till death, eh rejected the idea of an afterlife. Flew merely changed his mind from atheism to deism not to anything resenbling the despotic myths gods of Judaism,Christianity,Islam, Revealed Religions,etc. Aside from accepting an intelligent creator of sorts, Flew and other Deists still was{are} closer to Atheists and Agnostics than Theists.
Acceptance of a deistic creator is in no way an assent to the absurdities of theism/revealed religions
No, it's a true argument, I should know, I am also a Deist, have been for several years. Do you know what Deism is/Deists are?
Yes we believe in a Creator or as Einstein called it 'superior reasoning power", the first cuase/prime mover/fine tuner/source/emanator or creator.
But that's all, we do not believe it is a person or personal, human like or human centered, measured by human vlaue judgements, we reject reveleation, supersition, holy books,etc; embrace reason & science.
IOt should be noted in the description of the video that Flew merely dropped his atheism for a form of DEISM. Deism is FAR and removed from theism and revealed religion. And in poiint of fact, line up a deist with a theist and an atheist and you will generally find deists have dozens of points of view in common with the atheist and only 1 with the theist{that of there being what some call a 'God/Creator" behind the natural universe and it's natural laws; not human-like/centered/personal/etc}
It's sad how such a strong-hitting man has turned his mind around on principles that just take some actual dedication to learning and understand of how they work to go to God instead of it explaining just how complex life is and the mountainous buildup through Evolution to us it has been. These are not arguments for a God, but reasons why there is so much life in existence.
CheffBryan 2 weeks ago
Simple: he's gone senile & his brain is not at it's peak
vidarmoose 4 weeks ago
@vidarmoose Even if he was senile, hes probably smarter than you and me will ever be! People should be openminded for "new" views and theories. Somthing that science accused religious people of, is now being practiced by themselves. Sad. I think we are close to the answer and i think creation is more reasonable than random reaction. If you have a problem with "god", then call it just a higher intelligence. Well i guess thats also a problem because noone can be smarter than you right?! ;)
Sybarel82 2 weeks ago
@Sybarel speak for yourself, I for one will dare to say that when I'm old & my life is through I'll have beaten whatever "ounce" of intelligence this guy abandoned. It's the whole concept that buggs me, being fundamentally disproven since there is nothing OF THAT NATURE that holy books describe as a god ANYWHERE in the world nor known universe. You make weird assumptions, tons of incredible intellects have already existed far beyond my own, religion just didn't cultivate any of them
vidarmoose 2 weeks ago
@Sybarel82 "Somthing that science accused religious people of, is now being practiced by themselves." How so? That's completely untrue. CONFIRMED proof of microbial evolution, the transitional fossil record, and otherwise has exploded in the last 2-3 decades. They just discovered a new pit viper in Africa today and barely a day passes that some new species isn't found or fossil record uncovered. What is more, human DNA is hardly complex by comparison. Science is open-minded to FACTS.
BillofRightsBrutus 2 weeks ago in playlist Religion Debate
@BillofRightsBrutus . . . well, why do you still call the Facts "Theories" then?! Evolution, Big Bang. . . Because they are not 100% proven and never will. I'm not saying they are completly wrong, but sth is missing. The beginning is missing!
Sybarel82 2 weeks ago
@Sybarel82 It's this simple. Evolution is demonstrated through microbiology and transitional fossils. There is NO disputing that. What is more, even the NASA web site conveys what is known by physicists; namely the UNIVERSE is roughly 14 billion years old, is constantly expanding with its boundaries evidenced by red shift/radiaton, and began from began with the big bang from little more than natural quantum fluctuations in a vacuum of NOTHING. Flew contradicts NONE of that.
BillofRightsBrutus 2 weeks ago
@Sybarel82 He merely states things look complex so that is evidence of god. That is FUCKTARDED. You anti-evolution people are infuriating. You can't make up your minds. Thirty years ago the argument was "well, that's a nice theory, but there are too many gaps and not enough transitional proofs." Then, after decades of science putting up the proofs it all looks so nicely arranged that theists state god must have done it, totally ignoring the principles that predicted the fossils later found. DUMB
BillofRightsBrutus 2 weeks ago
@Sybarel82 You can't prove god EXISTS never mind was the catalyst for the big bang or anything physics demonstrates, nor the cause of the natural processes of organisms, evolution, placement of planets in solar systems that are conducive to life, carbon, carbon dioxide, oxygen, or anything else. You just throw god in there irrespective of god being necessary in the first place. Where is you proof of ANYTHING? Causality for God, when there is proof of NOTHING supernatural, is simply bullshit.
BillofRightsBrutus 2 weeks ago
@BillofRightsBrutus . . . never said that there is a proof that god exists. . Thats my personal belief. But if you follow logic than you would know that tere can't be sth out of nothing. . I like science, but they will never find the answer to "why at all".
Sybarel82 2 weeks ago
@Sybarel82 Look, I apologize for being abrasive, but you are totally mischaracterizing what science has proven and can show. That perpetuates people saying fuck it and they just never read or find anything out and science, in their mind, is in the same place it was the last time they gave a shit, which might be way back. Science has accomplished major things in the last 3 decades and America is getting crucified worldwide for being ignorant as to advances in it. It matters; it is the future.
BillofRightsBrutus 2 weeks ago
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BillofRightsBrutus 2 weeks ago
@Sybarel82 Religion doesn't pay the bills. I've never seen it do anything supernatural what is more. I could tell you a list of horror stories of people on their way to church, including my own, but I won't. Peace. If you would like to learn some facts and where science is headed, check these out: mapDOTgsfcDOTnasa.gov/cosmology/cosmologyDOThtml watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo&list=PLCACB11D728DD2AC3&index=3&feature=plpp_video watch?v=bmQZ4f9f_Yw&list=PLCACB11D728DD2AC3&index=2&feature=plpp_video
BillofRightsBrutus 2 weeks ago
@BillofRightsBrutus . . I'm glad the tone of our conversation calmed down a little. Look, I'm not a scientist, but i'm interrested in everything that comes along. I think there is a general problem between Deist's and Scientists and a leak of communication. I like people like Dr. Gerald Schroeder who puts up Deist theories based on scientific facts. If you haven't watched: /watch?v=LzetqYev_AI&list=LLs7njU4-PW30HCNv6HRjdSg&index=1&feature=plpp_video
Sybarel82 2 weeks ago
@BillofRightsBrutus . . there are also manny paranormal phenomenons documented. Ever heard of 'Lady of guadalupe' for example?! One 'miraculous' appearence of Mary who left a 'solid' proof which can't be explained by science. Even more. . while science developed over the years, and investigations got deeper, only more questions appeared. I know, scientists have proplems to approach to such subjects. . . But why don't you give it a try ;) . . Peace
Sybarel82 2 weeks ago
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BillofRightsBrutus 2 weeks ago
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BillofRightsBrutus 2 weeks ago
@Sybarel82 More than acutely aware. While I grew up "protestant", I went to catholic school most of my college prep years. I have probably read almost every document the Holy See has available on Fatima as well. I understand the position of the Catholic church, which is really where most people should begin if they want to make sense out of the "proofs" mainstream Christianity desires to offer. That said, they offer nothing to be subjected to scientific testing and scrutiny.
BillofRightsBrutus 2 weeks ago
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@Sybarel82 I spent part of 20 years investigating Christianity's, particularly catholicisms, offering of proofs. What is more, reading the works, in school and otherwise, of some of its greatest theologians, philosophers, and astronomers. Beyond that, countless contemporary writings. Believe me, you're not going to tell me anything that I haven't already read or heard advanced; particularly with respect to "supernatural" "proofs" or arguments for causality or otherwise. It's a puppet show.
BillofRightsBrutus 2 weeks ago
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BillofRightsBrutus 2 weeks ago
@Sybarel82 There's nothing to "try" is my point. I grew up and live in a bible belt dominated by religion and theism; one that barely pays lip service to science or otherwise. Why is it you think every atheist has not considered religion to at least the extent, if not more, than you have? It's almost impossible for an American to not have even if they haven't made any real individual effort on their own. Sadly, the same can not be said for education and science. That's simply the truth. Peace.
BillofRightsBrutus 2 weeks ago
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BillofRightsBrutus 2 weeks ago
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BillofRightsBrutus 2 weeks ago
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@Sybarel82 Just call their name and they'll hear you scream, "Master! Master!" FUCK . . . THAT . . . SHIT.
BillofRightsBrutus 2 weeks ago
And why do you people always have to criticize the bible as proof that there's no God...? Is that all you got? One religion out of all the thousands of years of humans existing? So one religion can speak for everyone that believes in a higher power? Of course, that justifies your douchebaggery. I'm a Deist. So try again before that's what you come at me with. :)
DemonicPuppet83 2 months ago
@DemonicPuppet83
sorry the thing is that there is no evidence for god at all. You can't disprove something non-existent. I can't disprove Ted the invisible flying unicorn.
PizzaBlade17 1 month ago
@MegaPamplemoose yeah, but Dr. Gerald Schroeder is a scientist. You're not. He's the one who turned Anthony Flew into a Deist. I'm guessing you're not a scientist. So maybe you should relax with the whole 'atheists are superior' attitude. 'The Big Bang' did not produce any matter. Not one single neutron, electron, or proton. It was LIGHT. Electromagnetic waves that stretched across the universe. So can you explain to me how all the processes that led to life are just random...? LMAO! Piss off.
DemonicPuppet83 2 months ago
Philosophy is useful when you want to try to frame something you don't understand.
Theology is useful when want to bend your mind to fit around a lack of understanding.
Science is useful when you want to understand.
Antony Flew was a philosopher, not a scientist, but still never a theologian.
MegaPamplemoose 2 months ago
World most famous atheist? Actually no. Funny thing is, at the time Flew accepted deism in his book, his mental health was declining; the book was written by someone else.
Proof that you need to be mentally damaged to believe in a God ;)
jdd94 2 months ago
@jdd94 you dont need to be mentally ill to believe in God. I believe in him and i have no n\mental ill ness whatesoever. Good luck with you miserable life
tHeMaN998rocks 2 months ago
@tHeMaN998rocks
I think he means mentally ill to honestly say you have a solid reason for believing a particular God.
That's different from not thinking about it, or just following what you've been told from birth, or being misled, which you don't have to be mentally ill to fall victim too.
MegaPamplemoose 2 months ago
I know many people who have almost destroyed there lives by misunderstanding the bible. They take thing to literary they think God is giving a direct command to them in the bible, but in actuality the commands that he puts in place to help his people throughout the bible, like the many rituals of the dead that prevented the spread of disease. Simply because they didn't know any better.
elijahvivio1996 2 months ago
Atheist do not say that science proves there is no god. They say there is no proof of god. "look to me be to be the work of intelligence" is not the proof of intelligence.
markleyg 3 months ago
It is not enough to believe in GOD. We have to believe in GOD's Son JESUS. He is the way to life after this.
Loliluv 3 months ago
This is funny.
Here are my three types of people on YouTube:
You have a Theist who simply believes in a God.
You have a Theist who believes in God and science as one.
And you have an Atheist who thinks he knows science, but is really copy/pasting information from Wikipedia/quick searching scientific information from Google.
LAUGH OUT LOUDZ LOOOOLOLOLOLLLL
If you were an actual intelligent scientist, you'd realize that there is more to this world than what we can prove.
JohnEliasOnSTEAM 3 months ago
"WORLD MOST FAMOUS" whats this a competens, what will be you next upload: "RIPLEYS WORLD MOST FAMOUS " god is like parties your republican or democrat, your not bouncing now i belive the other day dont!
nicaraguametalguy 4 months ago
@nefora1 jesus didnt have a tomb. He told his followers repeatedly "if you want to be saved you must eat my flesh and drink my blood"
so they did, and being good jews, they burned his bones in the passover dinner fire, like moses instructed.
MrHobiecat 5 months ago
God created everything. including science.
Lynnmist 5 months ago
@Lynnmist which is why christians burned scientists at the stake left and right
because science has indisputably proven the god portrayed in the bible does not exist.
MrHobiecat 5 months ago
@Lynnmist Too bad, he waited thousands of years to create real science. He was too busy counting the hairs on our skull.
ndzoko 5 months ago
@ndzoko Notr just counting them, NUMBERING them
The first hair just above your forehead exactly in the middle of your eyes is hair # 1.
The one to the left is hair #2...
MrHobiecat 5 months ago
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stringtheory9991 6 months ago
I believe in Jesus and God, someone come and argue with me : ). Just kidding about arguing.
TJY5991 6 months ago
I heard atheists are mean.
compsciguy 7 months ago
@compsciguy yeah, reality can be a real bitch!
MrHobiecat 5 months ago
At some point I find it only mildly interesting when a lifelong atheist sees the truth.For some,this seems to serve as a sort of affirmation for those who believe in a God.My convictions are firm,this after study of the genome,the 50+ constants of nature, etc., etc.,What Flew, Dawkins, or others have to belch into the discussion is of little merit or consequence. Most atheists choose their path as an exercise of freewill rather than an unbiased review of the facts-as WI argues about stickers-LOL
IndulgeHomeDecorCom 7 months ago
@IndulgeHomeDecorCom By what authority do you presume to speak for 'most atheists' ?!
MrHobiecat 7 months ago
There is no convincing proof of God, and Bush's second term was a disaster....
rlibos 7 months ago
@AlwaysDisagreeing There are also mantras for desire, for everything you want, but the most is for the inner strength and peace. If you like this way, then I suggest you to find the the man who knows correct pronouncing
of sanskrit, because its ancient language, and if mantra is not pronounced correctly it will have no effect.
MrGlape 8 months ago
@AlwaysDisagreeing Apsolutely wrong! Did you hear for the mantras? It is not prayer like christian prayer, its like when you call some person you type the number in phone and call? So mantra work in that way, you sent energy to deity or source which you like, and if it is correctly done, massive energy will come back to you. I tested and I am telling you from my experience, I wouldnt lie to you. Mantras are powerfull tool which are on sanskrit, and every letter has some energetic affect on you.
MrGlape 8 months ago
Flew converted 6 years before his death. He was still of sound mind and accepted God on a scientific basis rather than philosophical. If the same happened to Hitchens or Dawkins they would also be disgraced and ridiculed. It shows the pride of the non-believers.
chenj001 8 months ago
@chenj001 Altzheimers and dementia start affecting your brain LONG before you die from it.
the fact that you hold up a scientist who's brain literally turned into swiss cheese, as some sort of victory for believers in nonsense, shows just how desperate and pathetic your belief system really is.
MrHobiecat 7 months ago
@MrHobiecat What is true is not dependent on what people say or do. Whether you see that as weakness is completely up to you.
chenj001 7 months ago
@chenj001 it IS true that religious people cling to random events and circumstances, as some sort of proof that the ancient mythology they embrace is true. the evidence against the creator/god stories is indisputable: the god protrayed in the bible simple does not exist, the actions and events attributed to it never happened. The morality portrayed in the bible, based on the human sacrifice of an innocent person, is the OPPOSITE of what is moral and right...
MrHobiecat 7 months ago
@chenj001 ...if there is a creator/god, then someday christians will have to explain how taking an innocent person off the street, severly beating him, and then executing him, in ANY WAY makes them innocent of any crimes they have committed? And how does pretending to eat the flesh of the human sacrifice and pretending to drink his blood accomlish ANYTHING?!
Christianity is a test: if you want your guilt put on the head of a human sacrifice, you FAILED THE TEST.
MrHobiecat 7 months ago
@MrHobiecat Did you, by any chance, learn of Christianity through an ardent non-believer? If Christ is not divine, then we are most surely the stupidest of all :D But if He is, then there will be hell to pay for those that hear but chose not to listen. In such a serious debate, I would please request that you refrain from using capital letters in such a manner, as it makes you look of a lower intelligence than I think you are. Show me this evidence and I'll cling to your every word :)
chenj001 7 months ago
@chenj001 show you the evidence?! the bible says the universe was created in six days, with all life, 77 generations before the time of jesus. that puts creation around 4000BC. It says the world was flooded, wiping out all life, around 2500BC. It says all humans dispersed from babel around 2000BC.
The evidence against all these bible claims is well documented and indispuatble. The bible stories are so absurd they are not EVEN wrong, they are pure NONSENSE.
MrHobiecat 7 months ago
@chenj001 If the bible stories are true there will be hell to pay?! What are you? A child?!
Humans have come up with literally thousands of religions, and if you are not following the one that is true, then woe is you, right? There is no reason to think that ANY of them are true, esp christianity, which is based on a human sacrifice nailed to a stick, and the ritual of pretending to eat his flesh and drink his blood....
MrHobiecat 7 months ago
@chenj001 IF christ is not divine?! Jesus referred to both adam and noah as actual people, and the events surrounding the mythology of their lives as history. they are both even listed in his (two different) geneologies.
Jesus could not be a god, and not know that adam and noah never existed, and NOBODY can be the decendant of the characters in a parable/mythology story.
jesus was NO GOD!
MrHobiecat 7 months ago
@MrHobiecat The question of dating is obviously a massive debate among Christians. To see if Christianity is true or false boils down to the resurrection of Christ, if this is true, then we can say with confidence that He is the messiah. We can see throughout the Old Testament (which is agreed among historians to have been written before the new) that there are many allusions and prophecies concerning Christ which He fulfills. You only need to name one that He does not for Christianity to fail.
chenj001 7 months ago
@chenj001 where do you have ANY evidence that jesus fullfilled ANY of the old testiment prophecies?!
The people who wrote the NT stories could have written anything they wanted. the books were not published, not subject to peer review, and they were written long after everyone who had personally known jesus were dead.
and they HAD copies of the OT, all they had to do was write 'jesus did that, did that, did that too...."
....
MrHobiecat 7 months ago
@MrHobiecat actually, my closed minded freind, all the apostles were eye witnesses, thats the point. Only Paul was converted later. Just because your 8th grade science teacher said they weren't eye witnesses, doesn't make it so. I don't know were people got the idea to say that these days. Everyone always knew that they were eye witnesses, and no some people try to question that. Just read the Bible and find out for yourself. Don't believe idiots who tell you lies, chem it yourself.
SnowBroProductions 7 months ago
@SnowBroProductions what apostles? the 12 apostles mentioned in the bible stories didnt WRITE ANYTHING. the first gosple written was mark, about 35 years after jesus died. The other three were written even later, and luke and matthew are simply embellisments of mark. the authors of the first three never met jesus in person, and the claims that john was written by the apostle john, would require him to be over 100 years old, when the average life span was 30 years.....
MrHobiecat 7 months ago
@SnowBroProductions ...but none of this has anything to do with the fact the gosples contain stories for which NO ONE was there to BE an eyewitness, and many of the stories take place BEFORE jesus met any of the apostles.
How do you explain all that, Mr OpenMinded?
I am so close minded I am only willing to deal with things that are REAL - im not interested in the mythology of ancient goat farmers, from ANY part of the world.
MrHobiecat 7 months ago
@chenj001 ...whats more, its clear in many cases the gosple authors were just making it up as they went along. For examples, WHO did luke interview to get the stories of jesus' birth? the things herod said and did in SECRET?! Luke wrote a whole chapter on things jesus said and did when jesus was suppose to be ALONE in the desert. WHO was the eyewitness to that event, that he 'thoroughly researched' ?!
The stories are obviously fabricated: ie NOBODY was there, just jesus and the devil!
MrHobiecat 7 months ago
@chenj001 getting back to your 'boils down to' statment, thats easy.
IF jesus came back from the dead, the produce him in person. dont tell me he left so he could go sit at his own right hand on a throne in heaven. What? Isnt there ANYTHING important for him to be doing here.
The bible stories are just like all other religions. They make all kinds of claims that have no substance, and make all kinds of promises that are never fullfilled.
MrHobiecat 7 months ago
@MrHobiecat The dead sea scrolls show the stories were not fabricated, although before they were uncovered atheists were expecting contradictions and the like :)
You can look into textural criticism if you are unsure about the Bible's validity and historical Christianity in reference to Luke's research. Non-christian writers such as Josephus and Tacitus show the validity of the Bible. Your eyes, my friend, are closed to any light, but I am sure there is much hope for you :)
chenj001 7 months ago
@chenj001 My analogy alludes to appreciation of what is true.
chenj001 7 months ago
@chenj001 The dead sea scrolls were written hundreds of years BEFORE jesus lived, and they have NOTHING to do with any aspect of christianity, or the life of jesus.
The paragraph in Joesphus referring to jesus being the messiah has been PROVEN to be a 3rd century addition, it is not in any other copies of his history of the jews, which was not written BTW until 100 years after jesus died.
there is no light in ancient goat farmer mythology - you are self deluded.
MrHobiecat 7 months ago
@MrHobiecat To say the dead sea scrolls don't have anything to do with Christianity shows you have made up your own version of Christianity, that is a fact. You also lack any evidence still and keep making claims. Josephus, if you care to research, is accepted by the overwhelming majority of modern historians both christian and non-christian. He never said that Jesus was messiah so your apparent source is also incorrect. When you actually do some research I'll reply.
chenj001 7 months ago
@chenj001 so please explain: SInce all the scolls found together in the dead sea predate the birth of jesus by at least 100 years, how could they POSSIBLY have anything to do with jesus, his life, or the doomsday cult that arose after he was executed.
the forged joesphus edit referred to 'jesus, who was THE christ' as if joesphus himself believed it was true. the christ is another title for the expected messiah.
Your knowledge of christianity is underwhelming.
MrHobiecat 7 months ago
@MrHobiecat uh, little man, read the Bible and you'll know whats fulfilled. Over 1000 prophecies the Bible makes, and so far all of them are coming true. The Bible predicts international television, airplanes, everything. Interested? Read the Bible, you'll be amazed.
SnowBroProductions 7 months ago
@SnowBroProductions I have read the bible many times, in many translations. I was raised (brainwashed) a christian, and the more I studied the bible the more I realized its nothing but pure human fabrication.
The prophecies you claim were fullfilled, esp concerning jesus are UN PROVEN. The people who wrote the NT had copies of the Old Testiment, and they could say jesus fullfilled ALL the prophecies concerning the messiah, because THEIR WRITING WAS NOT PUBLISHED AT THE TIME...
MrHobiecat 7 months ago
@MrHobiecat first, what all translations have you read? and why would the average life span be only 30 years when today it's 70-80 and cancers like 100xfold what it was then.
ilikehotchiks 5 months ago
@ilikehotchiks because like 2000 years ago people didnt know ANYTHING about illness, disease, how the body works, how to deal with injuries.
you are ON the internet, do some research and stop making a fool in front of the whole world. The average life span of humans for the last couple thousand years is well documented and EASY to find.
for you, wikipedia is a good start.
MrHobiecat 5 months ago
@MrHobiecat Their diet was way better. way better environment, way more excersise. they lived some in the hundreds of years, disprove me with a link rather than harsh words. I'm 17 from MIchigan and am firm believer in the messiah. thousands of witnesses buddy not a scam. truth! he rose from the dead
ilikehotchiks 5 months ago
@ilikehotchiks you are ON the internet, google human life span for yourself. If you want me to teach you online my fee is $200 an hour.
Thousands of witnesses?! HAHHAHAHA you really swilled the koolaid, didnt you? Where are the thousands of gosples, signed and dated?
If you think the gosples are eyewitness accounts, then WHO was the eyewitness that saw everything jesus said and did when he was ALONE in the wilderness for 40 days? Its in the gosple stories, so WHO was there with him?!
MrHobiecat 5 months ago
@ilikehotchiks do yourself a favor, take the book of luke and underline the part in chapter 1 where he boasts he is writing 'well reseached eyewitness accounts'. then as you read the rest of luke, ASK yourself who could the author of luke (written over 40 years after jesus died) have talked to that could have been an eyewitness to the things he wrote?
The geneology of jesus? The birth of jesus? Things herod said and did in SECRET? things jesus did BEFORE he met his disciples...
USE YOUR HEAD!
MrHobiecat 5 months ago
@ilikehotchiks ; The average lifespan in biblical times has been proven to be NOT MORE than 40 to 45 years. 10 years after chris`t (supposed) death, most of his disciples were dead.
ndzoko 5 months ago
@ndzoko BIBLICAL TIMES? thats a few thousand year period. if your talking about before the flood, your perhaps close. But before the flood, very longer in the hundreds.
ilikehotchiks 5 months ago
@ilikehotchiks Speculation, jibberish, crap, nonsense. Never in the history of mankind was the average lifespan longer than today, unless you have prove to the contrary.
ndzoko 5 months ago
@ndzoko abraham and moses both lived to be much longer than you and i could expect too reseach it instead of asking me. consider and look into this
ilikehotchiks 5 months ago
@ilikehotchiks I did some research. In biblical times the average age was no more than 40 to 45 years. Period. Abraham and Moses(if they ever existed) were no exception. Those two charakters must be considered fictious untill evidence for their existence is provided.
ndzoko 5 months ago
@ilikehotchiks LOL. so Judaism and Christianity sprung out of thin air, are a clever deception. ALso nothing happened before 1900 and you cant prove it to me. Im with you, unless i see or hear it, its not fact. no need in FAITH
ilikehotchiks 5 months ago
@SnowBroProductions ..and by the time the gosples were written, everyone who had met jesus in person was DEAD. The average lifespan in the 1st century was only 30 years.
And unlike you, I am not making any personal insults against anyone here. You are suppose to be the temple of the living god?! HAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAAA!
Some sack of SHlT god you got coming out of your mouth there!
MrHobiecat 7 months ago
The existence of God IS a scientific question, and the conversion of a single man is not and can never be the proof that "science has discovered God". Nope, science is revealing more and more about reality everyday and none of it ever have to do with God
2CSST2 9 months ago
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@2CSST2 You stated "The existence of God IS a scientific question"
and yet state "science is revealing more and more about reality everyday and none of it ever have to do with God"
No scientist worth a penny tries to prove God with science, you cannot use the objective to prove the subjective unless you think you can weigh yourself with a thermoter. Its the wrong tool.
Those who do it are insane. Yes they do it, like yourself.
jonesgerard 9 months ago
Science will never prove or disprove the existence of God. the question does god exist? is not a scientific question, it's a philosophical question.
myJesuslivesinme 10 months ago 16
@myJesuslivesinme its a common sense question, lol
did everything happen by itself, does anything happen byitself, uh...NOOOOOOOO!
SnowBroProductions 7 months ago
@SnowBroProductions thanks for your reply, although who decides what is common sense? 500 years ago the world was flat, that was common sense. They were wrong, but it was common sense.
myJesuslivesinme 7 months ago
@myJesuslivesinme just for the record Christians always knew the world was round (says so in the Bible) but to answer your comment, knowing if the world is flat or round isn't as obvious as knowing that nothing can only make nothing. Lets not get into complicated questions (about the worlds and our universe) but come on, even little kids know, nothing can only make nothing.
SnowBroProductions 7 months ago
@SnowBroProductions Please define nothing, and then define how nothing can define nothing. Knowledge, common sense and science are fantastic gifts and I am grateful for them, But the question of the existence of God is still philosophical. Open you mind to the philosophical and all this we question will begin to make sense.
myJesuslivesinme 7 months ago
@myJesuslivesinme If a god has an effect on the natural world, it can be described by science.
yvranx 4 months ago
@myJesuslivesinme If a god has an effect on the natural world, it can be described by science.
yvranx 4 months ago
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@myJesuslivesinme If a god has an effect on the natural world, it can be described by science.
yvranx 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@myJesuslivesinme If a god has an effect on the natural world, it can be described by science.
yvranx 4 months ago
Oh how they turn on their own. He changed his mind so hes got to be insane? COME ON PEOPLE. The dude looked at what was out there and decided there was enough info to draw a different conclusion.
I doubt anybody who put forth their opinions know this guy well enough to comment on his mental health, I sure don't so making ignorant statements really doesn't make you look very intelligent.
Jonathan2342 11 months ago
He's old. He's since been replaced by Richard Dawkins.
NoNameLikeThisOne 11 months ago
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@NoNameLikeThisOne "He's since been replaced by Richard Dawkins."
WHo is also obsessed with God.
And he will also come to believe, only to be replaced with another defiant fool who will come to believe.
And so it goes.
jonesgerard 9 months ago
Flew got old, of course he's going to look for religion when his time nears. Fear will drive a man out of his sense of logic. Not to mention he may have had dementia
H3isl3g3nd 11 months ago
I've never heard anyone say science disproves god. This video is idiotic.
KonijNx2 11 months ago
@KonijNx2 Never heard anyone say science disproves god? Look on any religious video on youtube. Its pretty hard to not find it happening.
Cornllama 10 months ago
@Cornllama No, I haven't actually. those people are idiots. Well -- God as a concept wholely under-defined.
KonijNx2 10 months ago
going by the title, I wonder how theists would feel if we publicized every conversion of theists becoming atheists. Given that atheists are the fastest growing group of people.
Elififa 11 months ago
@Elififa We dont publicize every conversion of theists becoming atheists. If it gets publicized, then it wwas usually their choice. This is only publicized because it is close to the equivilant of the pope becoming athiest.
Cornllama 10 months ago
@Cornllama. YES! good one.
Elififa 10 months ago
And BTW,l Antony Flew died of altxheimers/dementia. His brain literally turned into swiss cheese.
Now we have scientific evidence of what it takes to turn an intelligent scientist into a religious person.
MrHobiecat 11 months ago
@MrHobiecat lol nice excuse
TheKith88 7 months ago
@TheKith88 its not an excuse, its the reality of the situation of the end of his life.
Dementia is always fatal, there is no cure, and patients eventually have to be locked up in a health care facility, because they no longer recognize their own SPOUSES or children, and often become violent towards their own family, thinking they are being held captive by strangers.
MrHobiecat 7 months ago
@MrHobiecat lol
GeniusAtheist 5 months ago
@MrHobiecat
Or he saw God's face and it blew his mind.
JohnEliasOnSTEAM 3 months ago
@JohnEliasOnSTEAM no matter how you want to spin it, you have to be out of your mind to believe the stories in the bible are real
and BTW, Flew, even in the throngs of dementia, STILL DID NOT BELIEVE THE BIBLE STORIES, OR IN THE GOD OF THE BIBLE.
MrHobiecat 3 months ago
@MrHobiecat
And you have to be an idiot to believe the Bible in the literal sense. Atheists often simply read the book and take it word for word (as do some Theists!), and that's what I call being "out of your mind". If you take the time to read the Bible carefully, and forget what the Church says, you'll find your own answers to your questions. God wants a connection with 'you'. He doesn't want the Church controlling 'you' through His word. But, different people = different mindset.
JohnEliasOnSTEAM 3 months ago
@JohnEliasOnSTEAM what questions?! the bible doesnt answer any questions.
it was written by people who claimed to be the exclusive priesthood of a god that created all life, 77 generations before the time of jesus. It claims humans rebelled and must be saved or face eternal doom.
the creation story is false, the need for salvation is false, therefore we dont need a human sacrifice nailed to a stick, and we dont need to pretend to eat his flesh and drink his blood...
MrHobiecat 3 months ago
@JohnEliasOnSTEAM ...if you get something else out of the bible, than the traditional christian dogma, who cares. Its nothing by the musings of ancient goat farmer tribemen who didnt know or understand ANYTHING about the nature of the universe, or the nature of life.
it has no value whatsoever, in fact if you apply it to your life it will destroy the only life you have.
MrHobiecat 3 months ago
@MrHobiecat
"if you apply it to your life it will destroy the only life you have."
And how exactly will it do this? If you misinterpret the Bible, then yes, you're left with nothing but garbage. But the same goes for anything else. If you don't understand what's in front of you, then you will fail to understand its importance. Do you read philosophical texts and then assume everyone will have understood it the same way as you? No. Take the chance to read it and find your own meaning.
JohnEliasOnSTEAM 3 months ago
this video is kwrap right from the opening text.
There is no list of 'most famous atheist", since atheism is NOT an organization, group, belief, or field of study.
Atheist are simply those of us who have studied other peoples claims of having interacted with a creator/god, and found them to be totally without merit.
And since there has never been a single credible claim of having interacted with a creator/god, the conclusion is that all religions are Kwrap!
MrHobiecat 11 months ago
This is one of those videos you feel more stupid after watching =P I can debunk all of this crap!
KamasutraButterfly 1 year ago
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Four common sense reasons why I think there is no god; A) Total absence from the natural world. No sign of a god, before, during or after, natural disastres B) The absolute absence of favoritism towards believers. Even chruches need lightning-rods to protect them from god. C) The absence of any reaction, when crimes are committed in his name. D) The suffering of the innocent. One could accept that the guilty must suffer, but children ???
tallliza 1 year ago
Antohy Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest :-)))))
dharmanova 1 year ago
Before Richard dawkins dies I pray that he will accept the fact that God is real.
RespectMyHate 1 year ago
@RespectMyHate ...good luck with that prayer about Dawkins.
Most prayers are 50/50...that one is 100 to 1.
Probably more chance that you'll realize that Dawkins is right.
Roper122 1 year ago
@Roper122 A ton of my prayers have been answered.
I also know a lot of other people who's prayers have been answered also.
Pray works why don't you try it. God likes when we put him to the test.
RespectMyHate 1 year ago
@RespectMyHate .. i bet a ton of your prayers haven't been answered either.
In fact I bet I know a lot of other people who haven't had their prayers answered.
In fact I bet it's a bout 50/50...which would seem, sorta like... chance.
god likes it when we put him to the test?
What test? If you don't get what you want does god fail?
( I do like your name and little Bruce Lee pic though...maybe I'll pray for one )
Roper122 1 year ago
@RespectMyHate Seriously, did you hear about the heavily Christian family that refused their child medical care when she had an acute asthma attack, and all they did was prey and prey (She died, just to let you know) I have links shows lots of cases of this happening.
Pray works? I dont think so.
Tiger66261 1 year ago
@Tiger66261 Oh boy go away. Did you hear about the doctors who performed unnecessary procedures just to advance science only resulting in killing those they intended to help? This kind of argument is pointless and further insulting. No?
vindicato15 1 year ago
@vindicato15 Ok, how about ALL the advancements in science in medicine, vaccinations and machinery that have saved lives all over the world?
I dont see prayer having the same affect that our very own advancements in science and medicine have made.
Yes this is a pointless argument, because we already know medicine and science is proven the to work, and prayer is just a fucking fairy tale and does no-one any good.
Tiger66261 1 year ago
@Tiger66261 Prayer has had positive impacts on recovery from surgeries, injuries, etc. The mayo clinic has performed several studies on this. As has the university of Tennessee. In all cases prayer has not proven negative but positive to recovery. Science is not infallible nor is medicine. There have been instances recorded where science and medicine where at a loss but prayer has had a impact on a patients well being and attributed to their survival. You dont know everything.
vindicato15 1 year ago
@vindicato15 Prayer is only proven to lower the patients blood pressure and reduce stress - it has NEVER been proven that a prayer has ever been answered or it has had a real effect on patients (e.g like a tumor disappearing)
Medicine and science has always been the for-front of saving lives. It is crazy that we are even having a debate on wether prayer works or not.
Its almost as if you think Prayer is better than taking scientific medicine or treatment.
Tiger66261 1 year ago
@Tiger66261 Prayer is always better. You uphold creature above creator. I hold creator above the creature.
vindicato15 1 year ago
@vindicato15 "prayer is always better"
I cannot take you seriously for debate after that statement.
You dont even have an argument to back up this statement.
Tiger66261 1 year ago
@Tiger66261 Who said I need a argument? Oh wait you thought this was a debate? No this is me witnessing to you. I am the byproduct of prayer. I nearly died the doctors had given up on me. They said quote, "There is no hope that he will recover." I made a full recovery. No drugs no treatments no surgeries. I have made a complete recovery because many many of the brothers and sisters in the Christian community prayed for me. Where science failed God made a way.
vindicato15 1 year ago
@vindicato15 Ah yes, the whole "well I experienced it so I don't need arguments or proof" this is the exact same defence mechanism that UFO nuts and abductees do.
I also find it very hard to believe that these so called doctors didn't try any treatment, medicine or surgery and just flapped their hands and said "there is no hope that he will recover". It really sounds like a bad story.
Out of interest, what illness did you have?
Tiger66261 1 year ago
@Tiger66261 Your assumptions show you lack of intelligence. I was in a severe car accident and went through the windshield. They determined if I did recover I would be severely handicapped at least or in a vegetated state. Defence mechanism hardly. By the way the doctor in question was a neurospecialist. I not only survived I am completely whole. Your doctors and scientists did nothing but expect the worst. Frankly adhominem and straw man tactics show me your desperation for argument.
vindicato15 1 year ago
@vindicato15 My assumptions are based of what you previously told me - that's why I'm asking questions.
And like I said, it is a Neurospecialists job to do diagnosis and treatment. I still find it very hard to beleive that they just threw up their hands and didnt even do any treatment and medicine. And also, did you have a Life support system?
Also, care to be specific? What assumptions and "strawman tactics" did I do?
Tiger66261 1 year ago
@Tiger66261 Yes the specialist did indeed say I was a soon to be vegetable. I do not know what they had me on at the time of my condition. My family had decided that if the doctors where unable to do anything then to take me off the machines they had me on. The doctors to this day find it remarkable that I regained my senses and made a full fledged recovery. As the extent of my injuries normally resulted in vegetated states.
vindicato15 1 year ago
@vindicato15 You don't know what they had you on at the time of your condition?
So let me get this straight, you know that the doctors said "there is no hope for you blah blah you will turn into a vegetable" but you don't even know what life support systems/ treatments or therapies they had on you?
I can guarantee that the doctors will at least have tried several different medicines/treatments and that you were probably hooked up onto a life-support system given you needed a Neurospecialist.
Tiger66261 1 year ago
@Tiger66261 Do you enjoy spam?
vindicato15 1 year ago
@vindicato15 I pressed the "post" button twice.....
Silly person
Tiger66261 1 year ago
@Tiger66261 You must do it often because if you look down the range of comments you have made you've done it quite a bit. Not to mention you really do like to hear yourself talk alot.
vindicato15 1 year ago
@vindicato15 i have looked down the comments and I have done it once.
It seems you lack any argument and you seem to be unable to actually converse about the original matter at hand - you instead make petty attacks that I'm a spammer.
Really, try again.
Tiger66261 1 year ago
@Tiger66261 Yes the great mighty arguments you have made which equate to I dont believe we got ya the first 25 times you said it. You make the same argument over and over again. The age old if you repeat the same ole same ole all the time then it must be true arguments you've made. Most sensible people call them what they are "spam"
vindicato15 1 year ago
@vindicato15 I have posted a total of 10 comments.
Like I said, you are still failing to converse with the original matter at hand.
Tiger66261 1 year ago
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Tiger66261 1 year ago
@Tiger66261 "also care to be specific" Making allusions to ufo nuts. Clearly straw man tactics. Frankly I dont care if you believe me or not as I am the one who lived through the experience.
vindicato15 1 year ago
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@vindicato15 How is comparing you to a UFO believer a straw-man tactic?
Abductees do the same "I experienced it, so it does not matter what you think and I do not need proof or evidence" like what you did.
So far you have given me a vague story with huge holes, and the exact same arguing mechanism that UFO nuts use.
I have every right to compare you to a UFO nut. Strawman? nope.
Tiger66261 1 year ago
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Common man`s reasons why god does not exist A) total absence from from natural events, No sign of a god before, during or after natural events. B)The total absence of favoritism towards believers. Even church steeples need lightning rods for protection against god.C) The absence of any reaction, when crimes are committed in his name. D) The suffering of the innocent. E) Why have humans more problems birthing, than animals ? Aren`t we his masterpiece ?
lizazoon 1 year ago 2
i know this sounds vague... if only donexodus was here to add his thoughts. because, again, i am not a biologist...
EternallyExistent 1 year ago
what? im not half a scientist but i can clearly see how this perfectly proves abiogenesis. there is no reason to discredit these finding just because the formed amino acids were present, they just made the process a bit more probable to occur. im sure that with enough time these self replicators would have been generated anyway (as u know there is no lack of time). at least from here, do u agree that evolution could take us to the present life forms?
EternallyExistent 1 year ago
Autocatalysis was nothing even close to abiogenesis. They put already fully formed amino acids and AATE together and the AATE were able to partially catalyze themselves. This is nothing even remotely close to abiogenesis and to even say that it is shows how little you looked into Dawkins claims, there is a reason why this hasn't been accepted as a proof of abiogenesis and that is because it isn't even close
the1qb 1 year ago
Bush and a mandate for moral reform?
Whaaat?
SRCervecero58 1 year ago
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whiteclaudia9 1 year ago
To me, whether or not there is a creator, is a boring question. Yes it is a wonder how nature and the origin of live has emerged, but that's it. Deism does not tell me anything about the afterlife, the universality of morale, the importance of art, love, or anything human - at all.
YUMMYngbird 1 year ago
Why should there be anything? It defies the second law of thermodynamics (the universe is winding down). It is the existance of ANYTHING at all or BEING that proves the existance of God. Evolution is just one mechanism and anyone who can't see there has been evolution in life forms is a moron. But evolution in no way takes anything away from a compelling argument of God - or the singularity.
clarkewi 1 year ago
i guess he became senile old man... coz science can account for the complexity in nature wihtout invoking dieties (so i dont see why he became convinced of god when he put his trust in science). if science couldnt account for this complexity it would have admited or at least suggested a designer, which it obviously doesnt
EternallyExistent 1 year ago
@EternallyExistent There is currently no working theories of abiogenesis or how the first Genome developed
the1qb 1 year ago
@the1qb i beg to differ - dawkins in the 'ancestor tale' tells of a series of experiments where someone successfully created something that resembles genome (it was a very basic self replicating molecule) in a sterile environment. he put inside the basic materials that were sure to exist before life begun, and he electrocuted it. some ooze appeared to propagate. self replicating molecule is sufficient for evolution to start working, and to the theory of abiogenesis be proven. here u go
EternallyExistent 1 year ago
:) At the end, God always wins :D
IloveYOUviruses 1 year ago
@Tripockets
Ah, I see. ok
Iconoclastithon 1 year ago
@Tripockets
wrong, he was an atheist and became a deist. Look it up, also read his last book he wrote a few years ago before he died, he died with the same beliefs...deism. his book "there is a god".
Iconoclastithon 1 year ago
@Iconoclastithon
unless you're referring to Lewis, who was atheist and became christian.
Iconoclastithon 1 year ago
@Tripockets
C.S. Lewis was a devout Christian. Flew was a Deist in his last years, not anything like christianity.
Iconoclastithon 1 year ago
Don't be fooled, Flew still believed in evolution till death, eh rejected the idea of an afterlife. Flew merely changed his mind from atheism to deism not to anything resenbling the despotic myths gods of Judaism,Christianity,Islam, Revealed Religions,etc. Aside from accepting an intelligent creator of sorts, Flew and other Deists still was{are} closer to Atheists and Agnostics than Theists.
Acceptance of a deistic creator is in no way an assent to the absurdities of theism/revealed religions
Iconoclastithon 1 year ago
@Tripockets
No, it's a true argument, I should know, I am also a Deist, have been for several years. Do you know what Deism is/Deists are?
Yes we believe in a Creator or as Einstein called it 'superior reasoning power", the first cuase/prime mover/fine tuner/source/emanator or creator.
But that's all, we do not believe it is a person or personal, human like or human centered, measured by human vlaue judgements, we reject reveleation, supersition, holy books,etc; embrace reason & science.
Iconoclastithon 1 year ago
DNA unraveled A 'scientific revolution' is taking place, as researchers explore the genomic jungle
By Colin Nickerson, Globe Staff | September 24, 200
ENCODE is on the threshold of complete dismantling of Darwinian evolution
This will be fun to watch
toobsucker 1 year ago
IOt should be noted in the description of the video that Flew merely dropped his atheism for a form of DEISM. Deism is FAR and removed from theism and revealed religion. And in poiint of fact, line up a deist with a theist and an atheist and you will generally find deists have dozens of points of view in common with the atheist and only 1 with the theist{that of there being what some call a 'God/Creator" behind the natural universe and it's natural laws; not human-like/centered/personal/etc}
Iconoclastithon 1 year ago
The first sentence of this video is wrong.... :/ so i didn't finish watching it.
dycarbon1 1 year ago
Can anyone help make me a believer?
Nat3skiz 1 year ago
@Nat3skiz read the BIBLE my friend.. thats where u should start and go to church
gtjet1 1 year ago