É uma boa. Grupos religiosos estão constantemente ameaçando a laicidade do estado. Pegue por exemplo a Proposta de Emenda Constitucional nº 99/2011 (PEC 99/11). Se dormirmos de toca, já era...
In order to get that respect you deserve you need spread rational thinking.
Don't say spread atheism, there no such thing. Atheism makes it sound like a religion. We are atheists and we are spreading rational, logical, evidence based view of life. That's how you should put it.
Also, atheists really need to distance themselves from socialism, and political correctness in particular. It makes them look sanctimonious and naive. This doesn't mean they should embrace conservatism, which is equally retarded. They should just be... free. Question everything, accept nothing.
Atheism is too basic and generic to base a group on. It's only entry level rationalism. You need something a bit more meaningful and positive, like transhumanism (NOT humanism, which is a pedestrian, deathist 19th century philosophy). Also, good ideas ARE worth spreading. If an idea isn't worth fighting for, it's worthless.
I like your idea that it is a political, civil rights action, not a debate club. You want to be more like an MLK, not Malcolm X. I think you do need to lead the group in a certain direction. Atheists can be just about anything good or bad. Maybe expand on the Secular/Humanist idea - that the ultimate goal is human flourishing, which must be inclusive of different routes to that destination. The goal can't be to make everyone think the same, but greater acceptance of diversity
@danihc I don't think it matters that promoting atheism is not your cause. If you make a haven for atheists then more people will 'come out of the closet' and declare themselves atheists. Even if you do not proselytize like the atheists you mention, a secular environment is one atheists flourish in. What you do is probably even better for atheism than what they do. Keep up the good work.
@healthyaddict thats until the christians find out that we actually do believe in god but we just deny him so we can sin, and we worship satan as well.
I'm curious to know how many members you have and how you spread the word about it. I go to a college with around 26,000 students. There are only 26 members of our campus's Secular Student Alliance. It's a little depressing because I KNOW there are far more than that.
@MyGrammarRules right now we have about 60 people who are in our internet comunity, but about 20 who are actvily participating and going to meetings.I know how you feel, it is a little depressing to know there are many of us who just wont come out o just wont care =P
@danihc I think a lot of it has to do with the stigma associated with atheism, but I know that has to change. I'm a lot like you in that I don't want to "convert" people; I just want to be able to help people who were struggling the way I was with religion. Many people just don't have the gumption to seek out others like themselves, so they suffer in silence and pretend to be what they clearly are not. It's such a dark place. Maybe I'll put up some posters or something!
It is not a matter of converting people. It is simply a matter of making sure anybody who is unsure whether god exists knows that there are people out there who feel the same way.
I see nothing wrong with coming together for a common cause (like fighting the creationists from trying to insert their crap into school science books ect) I am not afraid of the word "comunity" ...call it whatever but when a group is together , the voice is louder and can effect some changes!
Rather than forming an atheist group, maybe you should form a humanist group. They would likely have more interests in common. And don't be afraid to lead. Groups work better with leadership. Just my 2 cents.
Looks like your beginning to see the problem with pop-atheism. Many of them are simply anti-theists and basically running around slamming theists. The problem is that it makes theists look on athists as low life scum. Think of it this way, when was the last time you saw a meeting of a priest, rabbi, and pastor where they started calling each other derogatory names? At least the theists know insulting some else's religion is unacceptable childish behaviour.
@beechgrovejoe I've never seen a meeting where atheists insult all those people either. I get your point but it's a flaweed exmaple. If a meeting was aranged with a priest, pastor, rabbi, hindu, & a muslim and they were asked to discuss one another's religion, there would probably be plenty of insults against one another's religions as they contradict each other. If you through an atheist into that mix, the only difference is that everyone else inj the room disagrees with him on 1 more point.
@GrapplingIgnorance I have seen many times where different religions can set down and talk constructively about what is the same and different between the religions. The point is to come to a consensus about what everybody can get behind. Focusing on childish little points of contention is counter productive. It just causes the ones issuing the insults to get marginalized (kind of like the atheists :-) Is one trivial little point worth throwing away the chance to be an equal????
@beechgrovejoe And I have seen many times that atheist sit down and talk constructively about common ground they share with theists. It's happened in many stickam and blog TV's I've been in. I don't see your point.
@GrapplingIgnorance It's OK to state what you believe. It's OK to state that you disagree with someone's belief. But when someone claims another's belief is wrong, that's an insult. How many times have you heard athists say that thesm is wrong. Like they are some authrority that gets to condem other people's beliefs. Atheists seem to hate "Mr Pleasent Preacher", but they do the same time back to the theists all the time. It's no wonder atheism is only 3% of the population.
@beechgrovejoe You're absolutely right. If people want to let fairly tales influence legistlature, publically funded activities, political decisions, war motivations, and acts of terrorism, we should all just sit back and refuse to challenge those people. We should should just say we believe in something else and allow their belief system unlimited respect. I don't hate Mr.PP. He's free to claim/preech what he wants, and I'm free to call him on his bullshit- that's how freedom of speech works.
@GrapplingIgnorance So you agree that you are doing the same thing Mr PP is doing (free speech). Now consider how much influance he has on changing your mind. This will give you an idea how effective an atheist will be at changing the theist's mind. If there's not a level of mutual respect, how can the atheists ever think they are going to ever be more than a fringe element of society? If you want your beliefs respected, you must respect other beliefs even if you think they are wrong.
@beechgrovejoe I didn't say I do the same thing he does- I said I don't have a problem with what he does. In fact, I think what he does is great because it exposes the horrible things in the bible to more people. He's a Christian who's actually read his bible and takes it seriously. I hope some day enough moderates are inspired by people like him to actually read the full text they worship from. Beliefs do NOT deserve respect. I show PEOPLE respect, not beleifs.
@GrapplingIgnorance Then you must not think atheist beliefs deserve any respect either. But before you claim being atheist means not beliving god exists, unless you have absolute verifiable proof god doesn't exist, any claim he doesn't exist is just as much a belief as the claim he does exist. The question here is any demand that someone else agree with sombody's belief. If you don't respect a person's beliefs, no matter how you slice it, you are not respecting the person.
@beechgrovejoe 1. Atheism just means not believing in God. It IS NOT a claim of any certainy that you KNOW God doesn't exist. It just means you don't believe.
2. I DO have beliefs, but my atheist position is not a matter of what I do believe, it's a matter of what I don't believe.
3. The beliefs I do have do NOT deserve arbitrary respect. If someone wants to disagree with my beliefs and ridicule them they are free to, and it is my job to defend them with logic & explanation.
@GrapplingIgnorance And this is why athiesm fails to convince many people. Unless you have proof a god doesn't exist, the choice to not believe in a god is a belief (just not in a god). It's like a anarchist claiming they don't have a political position. No matter how hard they try to claim they don't have a believe in some politics, NOBODY buys it but other anarchists. If you want meaningfull dialog with society, you have to accept people believe differently and not see them as wrong.
@beechgrovejoe If you ever expect to communicate or understand what an atheist is, you should probably listen to you when they tell you what their own position is, rather than try to define it for them and then insist that their own definition of themsleves is wrong.
@GrapplingIgnorance I am not suggesting the atheist definition of themselves is wrong. I am suggesting that the atheist definition of themselves paints them saying one thing and doing another from the standpoint of other people. This damages their credibility and makes it easy to dismiss the atheist's argument. Why is it that the Jews are a much smaller group of people but have a higher level of respect in society? Claiming it's because they believe in a god is a rather hollow argument.
I understand what you are saying about internet atheists being assholes. A large portion of the very vocal ones are, particularly Americans. However, this is often the only forum in which they can feel free to vent without fear of repercussions. A lot of what you see is the result of people having to bite their tongues and bottle things up. So are they really assholes in every day life? Probably no more than religious assholes.
You probably aren't going to get rid of the ones that want to spread atheism, so maybe you could create a special branch within your secular group that would allow the ones that want to do the evangelizing spread atheism. Hopefully you could moderate it to be a little more of a positive force... for those that are interested in that area you could point them in the direction of Mr Dennet. watch?v=m5tGpMcFF7U
I think it is hard to argue with believers. Atheists don't hate god any more than pink unicorns or any other make believe things. I think that as soon as we open our mouths and say to the that we see no proof for god or any supernatural being, they feel attacked and say things like we are angry at god or that we have no morals. None of that helps the secular movement.
É uma boa. Grupos religiosos estão constantemente ameaçando a laicidade do estado. Pegue por exemplo a Proposta de Emenda Constitucional nº 99/2011 (PEC 99/11). Se dormirmos de toca, já era...
Matheus30741 3 months ago
porra tem uns gringo aki q são foda hein?!!
continue falando o que vc pensa liga não!!
admiro sua coragem em expor seus pensamentos que pra muitas pessoas principalmente no Brasil, é tratado como tabu.. meus sinceros respeitos.
Aceskink 3 months ago
fat ugly Brazilian chicks shouldn't talk about things they don't know
rhcprxbandits 8 months ago
@rhcprxbandits Then be quiet.
clipsryan 1 month ago
In order to get that respect you deserve you need spread rational thinking.
Don't say spread atheism, there no such thing. Atheism makes it sound like a religion. We are atheists and we are spreading rational, logical, evidence based view of life. That's how you should put it.
atheistkyo 11 months ago
Also, atheists really need to distance themselves from socialism, and political correctness in particular. It makes them look sanctimonious and naive. This doesn't mean they should embrace conservatism, which is equally retarded. They should just be... free. Question everything, accept nothing.
Parapon3ra 1 year ago
Atheism is too basic and generic to base a group on. It's only entry level rationalism. You need something a bit more meaningful and positive, like transhumanism (NOT humanism, which is a pedestrian, deathist 19th century philosophy). Also, good ideas ARE worth spreading. If an idea isn't worth fighting for, it's worthless.
Parapon3ra 1 year ago
Good luck with your group! The loud minority can often push away those more calm.
ctso74 1 year ago
I like your idea that it is a political, civil rights action, not a debate club. You want to be more like an MLK, not Malcolm X. I think you do need to lead the group in a certain direction. Atheists can be just about anything good or bad. Maybe expand on the Secular/Humanist idea - that the ultimate goal is human flourishing, which must be inclusive of different routes to that destination. The goal can't be to make everyone think the same, but greater acceptance of diversity
loveisallneed 1 year ago
@danihc I don't think it matters that promoting atheism is not your cause. If you make a haven for atheists then more people will 'come out of the closet' and declare themselves atheists. Even if you do not proselytize like the atheists you mention, a secular environment is one atheists flourish in. What you do is probably even better for atheism than what they do. Keep up the good work.
manoric82 1 year ago
what was up with the creepy music in the middle-ish of the video? There it is again!
3:48
Aresftfun 1 year ago
@Aresftfun probaly a car passing by on my street. =P
danihc 1 year ago
If you ever want to talk about group issues btw hit me up...
healthyaddict 1 year ago
The only consensus that atheists can come across is that there is no god. That's it.
I ran a student group for about 2.5 years, and a couple of off-campus groups as well. I know *exactly* what you're talking about.... :)
healthyaddict 1 year ago
@healthyaddict thats until the christians find out that we actually do believe in god but we just deny him so we can sin, and we worship satan as well.
mycommentsalwaystrue 1 year ago
@healthyaddict Yeah, I'm sure you understand!I'll call you sometime so you can adivise a bit more =)
danihc 1 year ago
@danihc Do you work for UPS? I could have sworn I saw you checking out my package
fishbone937 1 year ago
@fishbone937 UHAUHAUAHUAHU
danihc 1 year ago
@fishbone937 shes got nudes on ed
LiIGrim 1 year ago
I'm curious to know how many members you have and how you spread the word about it. I go to a college with around 26,000 students. There are only 26 members of our campus's Secular Student Alliance. It's a little depressing because I KNOW there are far more than that.
MyGrammarRules 1 year ago
@MyGrammarRules right now we have about 60 people who are in our internet comunity, but about 20 who are actvily participating and going to meetings.I know how you feel, it is a little depressing to know there are many of us who just wont come out o just wont care =P
danihc 1 year ago
@danihc I think a lot of it has to do with the stigma associated with atheism, but I know that has to change. I'm a lot like you in that I don't want to "convert" people; I just want to be able to help people who were struggling the way I was with religion. Many people just don't have the gumption to seek out others like themselves, so they suffer in silence and pretend to be what they clearly are not. It's such a dark place. Maybe I'll put up some posters or something!
MyGrammarRules 1 year ago
It is not a matter of converting people. It is simply a matter of making sure anybody who is unsure whether god exists knows that there are people out there who feel the same way.
Evangelising is completely unnecessary.
dangerouslytalented 1 year ago
@dangerouslytalented I tottaly agree.
danihc 1 year ago
I see nothing wrong with coming together for a common cause (like fighting the creationists from trying to insert their crap into school science books ect) I am not afraid of the word "comunity" ...call it whatever but when a group is together , the voice is louder and can effect some changes!
Just saying....
verodefacto 1 year ago
Rather than forming an atheist group, maybe you should form a humanist group. They would likely have more interests in common. And don't be afraid to lead. Groups work better with leadership. Just my 2 cents.
8WholeThing 1 year ago
Looks like your beginning to see the problem with pop-atheism. Many of them are simply anti-theists and basically running around slamming theists. The problem is that it makes theists look on athists as low life scum. Think of it this way, when was the last time you saw a meeting of a priest, rabbi, and pastor where they started calling each other derogatory names? At least the theists know insulting some else's religion is unacceptable childish behaviour.
beechgrovejoe 1 year ago
@beechgrovejoe I've never seen a meeting where atheists insult all those people either. I get your point but it's a flaweed exmaple. If a meeting was aranged with a priest, pastor, rabbi, hindu, & a muslim and they were asked to discuss one another's religion, there would probably be plenty of insults against one another's religions as they contradict each other. If you through an atheist into that mix, the only difference is that everyone else inj the room disagrees with him on 1 more point.
GrapplingIgnorance 1 year ago
@GrapplingIgnorance I have seen many times where different religions can set down and talk constructively about what is the same and different between the religions. The point is to come to a consensus about what everybody can get behind. Focusing on childish little points of contention is counter productive. It just causes the ones issuing the insults to get marginalized (kind of like the atheists :-) Is one trivial little point worth throwing away the chance to be an equal????
beechgrovejoe 1 year ago
@beechgrovejoe And I have seen many times that atheist sit down and talk constructively about common ground they share with theists. It's happened in many stickam and blog TV's I've been in. I don't see your point.
GrapplingIgnorance 1 year ago
@GrapplingIgnorance It's OK to state what you believe. It's OK to state that you disagree with someone's belief. But when someone claims another's belief is wrong, that's an insult. How many times have you heard athists say that thesm is wrong. Like they are some authrority that gets to condem other people's beliefs. Atheists seem to hate "Mr Pleasent Preacher", but they do the same time back to the theists all the time. It's no wonder atheism is only 3% of the population.
beechgrovejoe 1 year ago
@beechgrovejoe You're absolutely right. If people want to let fairly tales influence legistlature, publically funded activities, political decisions, war motivations, and acts of terrorism, we should all just sit back and refuse to challenge those people. We should should just say we believe in something else and allow their belief system unlimited respect. I don't hate Mr.PP. He's free to claim/preech what he wants, and I'm free to call him on his bullshit- that's how freedom of speech works.
GrapplingIgnorance 1 year ago
@GrapplingIgnorance So you agree that you are doing the same thing Mr PP is doing (free speech). Now consider how much influance he has on changing your mind. This will give you an idea how effective an atheist will be at changing the theist's mind. If there's not a level of mutual respect, how can the atheists ever think they are going to ever be more than a fringe element of society? If you want your beliefs respected, you must respect other beliefs even if you think they are wrong.
beechgrovejoe 1 year ago
@beechgrovejoe I didn't say I do the same thing he does- I said I don't have a problem with what he does. In fact, I think what he does is great because it exposes the horrible things in the bible to more people. He's a Christian who's actually read his bible and takes it seriously. I hope some day enough moderates are inspired by people like him to actually read the full text they worship from. Beliefs do NOT deserve respect. I show PEOPLE respect, not beleifs.
GrapplingIgnorance 1 year ago
@GrapplingIgnorance Then you must not think atheist beliefs deserve any respect either. But before you claim being atheist means not beliving god exists, unless you have absolute verifiable proof god doesn't exist, any claim he doesn't exist is just as much a belief as the claim he does exist. The question here is any demand that someone else agree with sombody's belief. If you don't respect a person's beliefs, no matter how you slice it, you are not respecting the person.
beechgrovejoe 1 year ago
@beechgrovejoe 1. Atheism just means not believing in God. It IS NOT a claim of any certainy that you KNOW God doesn't exist. It just means you don't believe.
2. I DO have beliefs, but my atheist position is not a matter of what I do believe, it's a matter of what I don't believe.
3. The beliefs I do have do NOT deserve arbitrary respect. If someone wants to disagree with my beliefs and ridicule them they are free to, and it is my job to defend them with logic & explanation.
GrapplingIgnorance 1 year ago
@GrapplingIgnorance And this is why athiesm fails to convince many people. Unless you have proof a god doesn't exist, the choice to not believe in a god is a belief (just not in a god). It's like a anarchist claiming they don't have a political position. No matter how hard they try to claim they don't have a believe in some politics, NOBODY buys it but other anarchists. If you want meaningfull dialog with society, you have to accept people believe differently and not see them as wrong.
beechgrovejoe 1 year ago
@beechgrovejoe If you ever expect to communicate or understand what an atheist is, you should probably listen to you when they tell you what their own position is, rather than try to define it for them and then insist that their own definition of themsleves is wrong.
GrapplingIgnorance 1 year ago
@GrapplingIgnorance I am not suggesting the atheist definition of themselves is wrong. I am suggesting that the atheist definition of themselves paints them saying one thing and doing another from the standpoint of other people. This damages their credibility and makes it easy to dismiss the atheist's argument. Why is it that the Jews are a much smaller group of people but have a higher level of respect in society? Claiming it's because they believe in a god is a rather hollow argument.
beechgrovejoe 1 year ago
for lulz hold the time thing at 0:00 :P
good luck with ur secularist society .. i no some atheists in person who arent very moderate either.. they tend to annoy me at times..
the freethinkers thing annoys me a little too
as for the whole you appearing as image for the society you should talk to greg about that at some point
TheIrishlonewolf 1 year ago
@TheIrishlonewolf I loled
danihc 1 year ago
I understand what you are saying about internet atheists being assholes. A large portion of the very vocal ones are, particularly Americans. However, this is often the only forum in which they can feel free to vent without fear of repercussions. A lot of what you see is the result of people having to bite their tongues and bottle things up. So are they really assholes in every day life? Probably no more than religious assholes.
PJsCreed 1 year ago
You probably aren't going to get rid of the ones that want to spread atheism, so maybe you could create a special branch within your secular group that would allow the ones that want to do the evangelizing spread atheism. Hopefully you could moderate it to be a little more of a positive force... for those that are interested in that area you could point them in the direction of Mr Dennet. watch?v=m5tGpMcFF7U
Samuria11 1 year ago
f*ckin atheists, how do they love.
viashinobogofinado 1 year ago
@viashinobogofinado fuckin christians, how do they think?
MobileThinker 1 year ago
Comment removed
viashinobogofinado 1 year ago
DANI! you are so fucking quiet...
Haradin32 1 year ago
@Haradin32 I know!! my bad XD
danihc 1 year ago
I think it is hard to argue with believers. Atheists don't hate god any more than pink unicorns or any other make believe things. I think that as soon as we open our mouths and say to the that we see no proof for god or any supernatural being, they feel attacked and say things like we are angry at god or that we have no morals. None of that helps the secular movement.
dtm52 1 year ago