Pro-life is actually anti-life because 500 thousand people die of pregnancies. Sure 13 percent of those deaths are caused by UNSAFE abortions but the reason why so a bit more than 1/10 end in death is because abortion providers have to put their life on the line to be in that profession.
Dr. Tiller was murdered because pro-life fucktards called him Tiller the Baby Killer until some asshole snapped and was a pro-life murderer.
Pro-lifers make the situation worse. ESPECIALLY with their rhetoric
I am all for pro-choice to put a condom on and use birth control. I am sick of stupid women wasting time when real issues should be addressed. Go watch some 3rd trimester abortions; nothing like a good skull cracking to start your day. Pro-choice women I see at rally's are usually the unfuckable truckdriver/viking look alikes i wouldnt touch with a ten foot pole.
You keep saying it is the women's choice. She has the right to do with her body has she see fit. An abortion is the removal of a fetus or baby. Another person. Even if you don't believe it is a baby it is not her body she is dealing with. The right is not longer hers.
@toria1311 So women who are dying because the fetus got infected have no right to abort the pregnancy and should just die?
Women that have a miscarriage should be put on trial on the charge of involuntary manslaughter?
When you start talking about killing another human being on the same terms as aborting a fetus, you're basically making people who have miscarriages criminals.
If aborting a fetus is akin to killing a child then a miscarriage is akin to accidental manslaughter end discussion.
Of course someone can be a feminist and pro-life, but that's the problem with third wave feminist movements, they are contradictory and opinions are often extreme in nature. The first wave succeeded because the majority found a common ground, white middle class women.
I agree with you. A woman who labels herself a feminist, who also opposes women controlling their own reproduction, has an undeclared masculinist and conservative agenda.
But why would anyone want to be a feminist anyway? I mean, I'm all for equality between the sexes regarding just about everything. But the feminists I know, mostly from university groups, put women above men. Heck, I dated a feminist. It can't work if you're always in the doghouse just for existing...
Ohh, but you're saying someone who is pro-life is someone who looks down on the choice for abortion. I suppose there is a cultural gap then, I don't think someone like that can be a feminist, I simply assumed such a choice would be made by a woman and the man should simply go with whatever choice she makes.
Giving women the choice to do what is or is not best for them clearly has nothing to do with feminism. Should women have the right to mutilate themselves? Should women have the right to mutilate their babies? They can choose to do what is not best for them, so are these issues related to feminism in any way? I don't think so, I think feminism is simply about equality of rights.
I don't think there is even a connection between abortion and equal rights, I think Singer is a good philosopher in this regards, he's very analytical in his approach of abortion.
"not telling women what's best for them, but giving them the choice to do [...]"
This is interesting, you're phrasing it in such a way, assuming there is an agent "telling women" or "giving women a choice", is this agent a male figure?
I'm a feminist, and I don't think in such a way, I assume there is no fundamental difference between genders, which would justify different sets of rights.
A fetus is a human and it is alive. I am pro-life because I believe in and respect ALL stages of HUMAN LIFE. The fetus has a body of it's own, from conception it has all the 23 pairs of chromosones that we have.
You can of course be feminist and pro life. The first feminists were pro life. Feminism was not about the right to choose who should live and who should die, it was about bringing equality for all. Women of all people should understand the oppression once faced, and now it is okay to do the same to an unborn baby? Raising a status as more equal than another was never feminist. It's an agenda. Pro life feminism teaches that society should do more for women to give them a real choice.
A life inside is not their body. You can't understand the opposing view until you let go of this. I'm neutral because I don't care either way, but it's important to point out that you're going to offend people with that phrase. It talks over them without acknowledging their position.
If you make more videos like this, you should start by stating their position. It helps with feedback.
I've also heard "atheists/liberals can't be pro-life" too...
No , you cannot be a feminist and be against the freedom to choose . Can you be a christian fundi prolifer and be for the death sentence? Antichoicers are brain dead , brain washed ,zombies pushing their religous crap on other people to control their minds and lives . If a woman wants an abortion she should be able to have it . I don't know the definition of the word feminist , so I won't rant anymore . Feminism to me means women should have the same equal rights as men .
@kiittenwolf Are you serious? I wasn't making an argument, just pointing out what I thought (and what most human beings would consider) a typographical error. But since you bring it up, referring to "children" as "consequences" for their parents' "irresponsibility" is dehumanizing, demoralizing, and utterly degrading. How could you articulate such a disgusting equivocation?
Would you honestly tell a child born out of wedlock that he was a "punishment" for his parents mistake?
@kiittenwolf Fallacies? What about my mom's situation was a fallacy? Have you really looked at what was going on before it was made legal? The back alley hack jobs, the coat hangers, boiling water, punches to the gut or a dozen other dangerous 'home remedies' that could kill them too or ruin their chances for future children. Those things really happened. You act like every birth is healthy and every foster family is safe and every child gets adopted. Your naivety is showing.
To me, a women's right to choose is one of the most important issues for women's rights, so yes, I agree that you can't really be a feminist and be "pro-life" necessarily.
@kiittenwolf "There is absolutely nothing cruel about telling a woman she must carry a baby for a few months before she can give it up for adoption, because she was irresponsible and didn't use birth control."
I'm sure this is just poor phrasing, but justifying making women carry a pregnancy to term as punishment for having unprotected sex is a completely untenable position. Perhaps you would like to restate that...
@DBSpenser Society wants women to believe that being pregnant is the worst thing your body can go through. They use words like "Parasite" to pin mother against child. Only this is not the worst thing the body can go through. Abortion has physical and psychological damages that last a life time.
@SpiritualMediumSarah I'm not sure what you mean by "Society wants women to believe that being pregnant is the worst thing your body can go through." I don't believe that, and I've never heard anyone claim that it is literally "the worst" thing to happen to a woman.
And, for the record, the unborn organism is technically a parasite- an organism that lives on another organism. Of course, this in itself does not validate the prochoice position.
@DBSpenser "nd I've never heard anyone claim that it is literally "the worst" thing to happen to a woman." And yet my point is brought home by your comments which make pregnancy sound unnatural and unwanted by the body. All merely brought to you by a society which does not want to meet the needs of pregnant mothers, and so offers death as solution.
@SpiritualMediumSarah First of all, relax. I'm not being belligerent and yet you are completely misrepresenting what I am saying. Please don't put words in my mouth, that's uncalled for.
Pregnancy is natural, and it is, in some sense, "wanted" by a female body. You make it sound as if referring to a human organism as an organism is somehow dehumanizing. I am describing a biological function when I use the word "parasite."
@SpiritualMediumSarah Biologically describing pregnancy is no more dehumanizing than describing our digestive system or pulmonary system or lymphatic system or anything of that sort. Whether or not the organism is a parasite has no bearing on the prochoice/prolife argument- it's a biological fact, that all.
@DBSpenser Don't get me wrong, I'm not against PEOPLE that get an abortion, i'm against society which makes women feel that killing in their only way out. Whether society be fear or ridicule, not enough support (programs), not enough money, parental support-religious "persecution"..most are fear based abortions/birth control. All things being equal/healthy ,I really doubt, anyone under NO society pressure or fear would choose to kill. But alas, pressure comes in many guises.
@SpiritualMediumSarah And saying "it's natural" is not a valid argument. It was natural for our ancestors to die in the early twenties from tooth and gum disease, but surely you wouldn't complain about advances in dental hygiene. Now, as I have said, this does nothing to change the prolife/prochoice argument. My point is that a "state of nature" isn't always ideal in 21st century society.
@SpiritualMediumSarah That's an incredible oversimplification of my point, which is this: Just because a biological function is "natural" is not a valid reason for subjecting human beings to the effects of that function.
@DBSpenser lol, point was taken, though it is you oversimplifying abortion, by reducing procreation to something that needs to be stopped. Plaque harms, birth does not- unless you want to argue over rare occasions (but then, so can eating an apple make you choke). Your argument about brushing teeth, is a strawman and nothing more. As I said, you are proving my point that people want women to think of their body and womb as unnatural, harmful, scary. And that is anything BUT feminism.
@SpiritualMediumSarah See, now I could make a snippy comment about how you are comparing pregnancy to eating an apple, but that would be a very stupid thing to do.
And as I said before (it seems as if you don't actually read what I'm saying), I don't think of pregnancy as an unnatural occurrence, but just because something occurs naturally doesn't invalidate the claim that we might be better off if we artificially prevented it.
@DBSpenser wrong. I was not comparing an apple to a baby, I was making an analogy about the fact that even the healthiest of things can cause damage, but we should not demonize them for such. We aren't discussing bodily functions, plaque, parasites, or anything unrelated...this is human life. If you want to dehumanize unborn children, that's up to you, but that's not what feminism proposed to accomplish.
@SpiritualMediumSarah I think our conversation is quite off topic from the video. I personally think that women can be feminist and prolife. If you want to discuss the video, I think Ms. Fearblandness makes some very bad prochoice arguments.
@SpiritualMediumSarah I’m not trying to desensitize the issue, and the words I’m using are scientifically accurate. If you’re going to complain about the words I’m using, then this discussion has become ostensibly semantic. Use whatever word you like to describe the fact that the child relies on its mother for life-sustaining nutrients. I use the word “parasitic,” because that is the English definition of it, and if that offends you, make up a new word.
@SpiritualMediumSarah “I was not comparing an apple to a baby, I was making an analogy about the fact that even the healthiest of things can cause damage…”
I know you weren’t, I made that clear, just like I wasn’t comparing plaque to a baby, I was making an analogy about the fact that “natural” things can cause damage.
@DBSpenser The words that you use makes a huge point about society and psychology of our mind and views. If you can't see that as more than a semantic argument, there's no point in the discussion. We can agree to disagree, though I think even those who are pro choice, should look at cultural "norms" and word usage and always be questioning why.
@SpiritualMediumSarah FYI: Pregnancy is a bodily function. I’m sorry if it offends you to discuss the fact that we are biological organisms, and that birth is an organic process, and that we have sex organs in our body alongside other vital organs, and that we can be taxonomically classified as primates, etc. Studying human life in an objective manner is verifiable science, and you are completely demonizing this process.
@DBSpenser Actually, you are not using the proper definition of a parasite, and so are scientifically inaccurate. It doesn't offend me in the slightest, but if you can't stop and think about why society chooses words then you haven't taken a well rounded look on the issue. Parasites are of a "different" species.
@SpiritualMediumSarah Yes, of course, a parasite is of a different species, I'm sorry if I phrased that poorly. But the relationship is "parasitic" in the sense that the child depends on its mother for survival.
@DBSpenser If you want to argue that it is okay to abort because it is parasitic in nature-and you mean dependent. Then why can't a mother kill her 1 year old...and in some cases 30 year old dependent children? The argument is weak, as most children leach off their parents for support, food, money, attention, schooling, college etc etc.
@SpiritualMediumSarah You’re the one who complained about my word usage, I’m not interested in a semantic discussion. Just because something is “living” doesn’t mean it is important. Plants are living, insects are living, but their life isn’t very valuable. What I do care about- what I care very much about- is whether or not life is valuable. It’s not enough to say that something is alive- it must be a conscious creature.
@SpiritualMediumSarah I am not arguing that dependency makes any difference at all. It doesn’t. I think that is one of the weakest prochoice arguments there is. In fact, I specifically said that it doesn’t matter, but you made up an argument for me and then attacked it.
I think it’s important for prolifers to ask the question “what makes life worth living?”
@DBSpenser I obviously know that "bodily functions" are involved in pregnancy, but that it is not the issue-the issue is "life". Not degrading it to something that is less than that. And that was my point. We were all a fetus at one point. A fetus can dream, and can learn repetition, voices etc- A fetus is a learning, developing human being, so yeah-I do not see it as a "thing".
@DBSpenser The point of the video is: Can a feminist be Pro life? Yes. The very first feminists which fought for women's right were against abortion, and they did far more for women today. They are true feminist, not someone who would rather murder their unborn child than to carry it for 8-9 months. Women that struggled and worked hard for equality, just to have people use the label to justify harming others. Abortion is not equal rights.
@DBSpenser And if you truly believe you and others aren't being told by society that pregnancy is wrong, why compare it to tooth decay, parasites etc? Why use words that paint a negative picture and which are inaccurate? People do it for desensitization. The same reason most people don't order baby cows, they order "veal". Or they eat "rennet" and not baby cow stomach lining. Society plays a huge role in wording and how that makes people view the world.
@SpiritualMediumSarah In terms of genetics, the mother is actually pitted against the child. If resources are scarce (eg if the mother is malnourished), she and her child will fight for their own survival. The baby will attempt to exact proper nutrients from the mother's body, and the mother's body will fight to keep herself healthy. But again, this fact in itself does not validate the prochoice position.
@DBSpenser There are not many women in developed countries using abortions for much more than a method of birth control. Nourishment isn't really an issue in those cases. Biologically, giving birth is natural- whereas abortions are not- so no, birthing a child is not statistically more psychologically&physically damaging for a mature female. Parasite? Just a way to dehumanize a person before you slaughter them. When one persons rights infringes on another's, what's 9 months?
@DBSpenser A females body is designed to carry a fetus and give birth. It's far from being a parasite.A parasite doesn't allow you to pass you genes forward, it does nothing to strengthen you're evolutionary chance at survival of your genes. Giving birth in natural for the body, wanted by the body, it is why women have a period. Parasites are foreign and unwanted by the body, the body doesn't prepare itself for a parasite. It does for a baby.It's just a word people use to desensitize
@SpiritualMediumSarah And it's true that abortion can have physical and psychological effects. So can carrying a pregnancy to term. Neither of these facts validates either the prolife or prochoice position.
I wish the whole argument would shift to the far more practical issue of contraception - we have multiple ways of preventing the need for abortion and many women are TERRIBLE at using them...promote contraception til everybody's SICK of hearing about it (like theyre sick of hearng about the pro-life argument) and the number of abortions will be drastically reduced...some women seem to use abortion as contraception. Women who accidentally get pregnant actually say ' oh it just happened!' cont.
@ezmereldagreen Well, it didn't just happen - you get pregnant when you dont use protection.I was lucky to be a teen when AIDS first hit, we were drilled to use condoms - the thought of having sex without was kind of gross.As i result i never got a disease and i never got pregnant until i stopped using condoms.Having a child made abortion seem really really awful but it is better than unwanted children.Drum it into kids heads that sex = babies UNLESS you take care- a much more positive campaign.
No. I think women's rights have progressed over the years in terms of being controlled by a patriarchal system. With that being said, a lot of women's mentalities are still stuck in that archaic system. These women think that it's about being pro-life, but it's not. They're accustomed to complying with the norms of this system. This is really about being in their conditioned comfort zone as opposed to what's really right. A feminist wouldn't say that they agree with any patriarchal norm, right?
@kiittenwolf Most pro-lifers are pro-death penalty and anti-birth control, so if they had their way we'd be right back to the days before RoeV.Wade. Abortion isn't pretty, but sometimes it's one of those necessary evils. For me it boils down to the fact that I can't be cruel enough to tell a woman she *must* carry a child to term. I wouldn't even have told my own mother what to do when the doctors told her she had to abort me to save her life. It ultimately wasn't up to me.
I'm a guy that has a problem with late term abortions. Not saying there are no circumstances where it would be necessary but shouldn't some consideration be given to the fetus as a human being? The charge that everyone who isn't prochoice 100% until birth is your prejudice against some free thinkers that are considering the life of the human fetus.
"Pro-life" is a BS term. Everyone is "pro-life" but you fall into the far right use of language by using their terms. It is either pro-choice or anti-choice.
@kiittenwolf Now add to your scenario that your twin will kill you both in four months, separating the two of you will still take nine. What then? Ectopic pregnancies can and more often than not do kill the mother and child. Even as a 'humanist' issue, it's still a rough one because nothing is ever as clear cut as we wish it could be. Even if made illegal abortions would still happen. I'd just rather women have doctors to turn to, not back alley butchers.
By "pro-life," are you suggesting that feminists have a reputation for being "anti-life?" I haven't met any anti-life feminists. Of course, I'm not saying none exist, but they appear to be as scarce as hen's teeth. Come to think of it, I haven't met anyone who's anti-life. Perhaps I have misapprehended your choice of words. Did you perchance mean "anti-reproductive rights for women?"
Oddly, here in the States, so called "pro-lifers" tend to be pro-death penalty, anti welfare for those with unwanted pregnancies and in general, anti-feminist. . Admittedly , many in our "pro-life" movement are influenced by their fundamental christian beliefs.
Yes, I think you can be a feminist and pro-life as long as you don't impose your anti-abortion agenda onto another. We are not cookie cutter products. Can you really be atheist and Republican? Can you be Christian and homosexual? People have what is obvious contradictions to others. I am all for other people chosing for themselves, but it is a no for me. It is also a mute point at this stage of life.
Abortion is not an issue to be approached by considering solely the rights of the mother. There is the very real and very important consideration of the rights of the unborn.
It seems like your prochoice argument hinges of a faulty assumption- that the unborn organism is part of a woman’s body. Clearly, it is not. It is a separate organism, with unique genetic material, and which functions by a separate modus operandi from the mother. Though it enjoys a parasitic relationship with the maternal host for some time, it is definitively its own being. The question of a women’s right over her body is irrelevant, because the unborn organism is not part of her body.
But since you do mention equality, why should men not have a say in the issue? If anything, that seems like a sexist and unequal opinion. We absolutely have the duty to protect children from being killed, if this is indeed what is happening.
It’s ironic, too, that you praised Christopher Hitchens (a pro-lifer) for being pro-feminist, and then make this video claiming that the two viewpoints are mutually exclusive.
@DBSpenser Men should not have a say in the issue because it is not their body, health, or mental well being. Men have control of their own reproduction. You choose whom to have unprotected sex with and risk impregnating. After you "release", you no longer have any say until a child is given birth.
@MsMommaRose Yes, but what I don't think you understand is that the issue is not just about a woman's body, health, or mental well being either. Consider the health and well being of the body growing inside her. It's not a complaint that should be so readily dismissed.
Society has a duty to protect all life that deserves protection, regardless of what gender the members of society happen to be. I wasn't referring to the father of the child, I was referring to society as a whole.
@MsMommaRose Also, perhaps it would be helpful to perform a reductio ad absurdum on this point. What if I asserted that, because a woman expends her capital, health, and well being raising a child, she has full rights over that child. If she wants to, she should be able to starve that child, or send it to live on the streets. After all, it is her food and house that the child is utilizing- shouldn't she have full rights over her property?
You mention “equality,” which is strange in an abortion context, because the choice to have an abortion could only be invoked by women. If, hypothetically, men had sovereignty over their unborn children, antiabortion laws would apply “equally” to them. Since this is inherently an issue in an exclusively female domain, the issue of gender equality is moot.
As much admiration as I have for some of your thinking, you present very unsound prochoice arguments here. Regarding “semantics,” being prolife in the US means being anti-abortion, and nothing else. To fault the prolife movement because it gives women the “feeling” of guilt about having an abortion is completely irrelevant to the moral implications surrounding the issue.
I'm not sure that one can publicly be for feminism issues (such as they are today, though I've not a good idea as to the state of female equality in Australia) and pro-life; but I can see that it wouldn't demand much in the way of mental gymnastics for a personal choice/moral opinion/what-have-you.
There's no clear definition about what makes someone a feminist or not, and nor should there ever be. If her opinion is alligned with some of the other issues that some consider part of the feminist movement then yes she is a feminist too, end of story.
Though, this is a pointless discussion. This kind of thinking promotes conformism: Should she have to agree with everything that the feminist movement is about? Should everyone conform with the norm of a label? This is against free thought.
You can't be pro-life and a feminist. It's her body its her right to choose, no one else, not the father, not her family, not religion and not the state should be able to force a woman to carry an embryo to term. Keep abortion legal and safe.
I don't know about feminism and 'pro-life', they don't seem compatible but people define feminism so differently. As for females having the same rights as males - well, If men have the right to abort, so do women. ^_^
What I do know is that you can't be a feminist and a christian. At least not at the same time, not without some Orwellian doublespeak or utter disregard of the bible. (Hah, like christians've even read the bible.)
And I think young men should be involved in that discussion. Teenage boys, as a part of sex ed, should be talked through this procedure & the traumatic affect it can have on people. Maybe strong volunteers could go to schools & tell boys what they went through (people's judgement, psychological trauma) to show them the possible results of selfish sexual habits (not wearing protection). Just because men produce sperm & eggs are in women doesn't make this all a burden of secrecy/blame women carry
What is a feminist? I mean today what does the word mean? What "values"? As with all ideological positions the range of views can be expansive. If for example "she" (the god bothering creationist Christian mental case) believes in real wage equality regardless of gender, is she more of a feminist than the "woman who is a far right economist" who believes wages should be set between the individuals without regulation or minimum standards. If the woman wants to work for less let her why not?
@franks2732 Note I do not agree with the example of the economist or the fundie being a fundie, but the point should be made, is the woman who is involved in editing the "Woman's Weekly" a feminist when she allows diet add after diet add, followed by stories that highlight 'how to get your man". Why men think the way they do etc etc? I think I may do a video response
Of course you can. You can even be for legislation against abortion. If you think a fetus is a baby, and abortion is murder how does that reflect on your belief in equal rights for women?. You can likewise be a pro-choice, pro-gay rights Christian. Of course Christians would say that person "isn't a Christian" in the same way that you are saying this woman "isn't a feminist".
In fact the argument that a pro-gay rights Christian isn't a "true Christian" is a much stronger one because the anti homosexual sentiment is actually part of the Christian dogma, while feminism has no such pro-choice dogma.
can you be a vegan and Own a cattle ranch? why yes you can Hippocrates are everywhere, the sad fact about life is that no matter where you look everyone everywhere in every way shape and form everyone is a Hippocrate. Even me, even you, everyone. I know my hippocracies, as we all know we have them, but vegans, feminist, activists, religious, and politicians happen to be the largest of these Hippocrates...
@tommylehman Everywhere, show me one person who isn't.. Even the Christians Version of Jesus was in fact a Hypocrite, he showed wrath in the temple, (a human sin) hmm Wrath of God,. yet god is sinless?,. yes Hypocrites everywhere
While I'm 100% pro-choice, in fact you might even call me pro-abortion. I see no hypocrisy in someone believe in equal rights for woman, while believing a fetus is a human life, and abortion is murder.
@TheNakedAtheist While you may not be a Hypocritical person in this particular area, lets say you hate the senseless slaughter of animals. (Or some other small example similar) And you kill a spider, and or hire exterminators for Roaches or some other vermin. Within me I know what things i am hypocritical in, and you know there are some minor things that you are also. Now aren't I right?
Huh? I never argued that hypocrisy didn't exist, or that it wasn't rampant. I'm simply saying it isn't, as your comment in the context of this video implies, hypocritical to be pro womens rights, and anti what one might believe is baby killing.
@TheNakedAtheist OK then lets put it this way, Feminism protect woman's rights, an embryo can be female, in fact all are female prior to genetics choosing the sex, hence all embryos aborted pregender, are female, hence feminist supporting abortion is feminist agreeing to kill females... think about it
Pro-Life isn't. It is just anti-choice. I have never met anyone who fought against abortion AND war. Most of the anti-choice people are pro-gun. How do you figure that one out?
@hildegain No, you just aren't good at reading. As I did not intend contradiction in what I stated, that will leave you with the burden of shifting your premise. Felel free to reply if you intend to do so, otherwise, keep your immemorial arguments, I've heard them before.
@lambdog76 You may not have intended a contradiction but it was there in the text, don't say I'm not good at reading when it was your comment at fault. You failed to express yourself in a clear and concise manner without contradiction, your fault, not the reader's.
The goal of feminism was to give women freedom, stripping women of the freedom to choose is a direct contradiction.
1. (To address an irrelevant point on a feminism question) - Cute!
2. "Pro-Life" is a loaded label which does mean "anti-abortion." The Pro-life position has no middle ground. Most humans are for life, but "Pro-life" means no abortions for anyone ever under any circumstances.
3. I agree with you. There is a valid argument about morality or when life begins, but one cannot advocate for female rights and autonomy while treating women as fleshy incubators once they have been inseminated.
I believe so. The concept of feminism as I see it is for a woman to have an equal voice. Being unable to freely voice a personal opinion due to doctrine would be the antithesis of the movement's purpose.
@lambdog76 I'm pretty sure that counts as being an equal opportunist and having the right to choose.
As you put it, you actually contradicted your position. "Can you be Feminist and Pro-life", if feminists as you say want women to have the right to choose but at the same time don't want them to be able to choose whether or not to birth a child, that's a big contradiction.
Yes one can be a feminist and pro-sex (pro-prostitution), pro-life, anti-choice, anti-life, a misogynist or any other thing. Why? Because each person needs to make the correct political decisions for themselves. I'm not ever going to tell any woman what to think. Freedom of thought is important. Also there are just too many factions of feminism at the moment for me to pretend there is any kind of party line.
I think that you could PERSONALLY be pro life, but as long as you are not voting or pushing to have choice taken away, yes I think you can be a feminist.
All I can say, it's your body, your choice. Being a feminist means you HAVE to be pro-choice. If you're not pro-choice then you can't be a feminist. Doesn't make sense. To be a feminist means you support feminism...duh. The key word is CHOICE, and her choice shouldn't be swayed by an OPINION as to what's good or bad for her. An opinion that's pushed forward by religious zealots anyways. I'm pro-choice and I'm a male. It's like being anti-tech while using a computer to tell us about it.
I believe that you can take a moderate pro-life position, for example you would be ok with abortion in instances for the woman's health, rape, incest etc but not be ok in other circumstances. Would that be feminist position? I could see how someone may want to think it is.
No, I don't think feminism can ever include the so-called "pro-life" position. It's dangerous to women, how could it possibly be held by anyone who cares about womens health? It can't.
Their choice to call their position "pro-life" is ridiculous. It always pisses me off when women, especially women who haven't been pregnant, act as if they have the right to tell a woman to put her life at risk just because they claim it's what they would do in her position. They don't really know what the hell they would do in that situation because women who are "pro-life" usually have never had to make that choice! "You can't do this because I wouldn't do it" That's their entire argument.
Abortion is never an easy choice. But the choice has to be in the hands of the woman who has to make that choice. Nobody else, male or female, can -or should- decide for her.
I don't believe feminists can be anti-choice, though they may have different opinions on how to imply this freedom of choice. Not every feminist thinks the same, but the right to reproductive freedom for women is one of the main issues of feminism. Giving up this demand means, IMHO, giving up on feminism.
(CONT) Waiting until pregnancy to make a choice on birth-control when you knew beforehand you didn't want to have a child is just plain stupid on the part of men and women. Obviously, that choice is stolen from a woman during rape or incest. That being said, I really can't stand the thought of abortion becoming illegal again and having women butchered at the hands of unqualified practitioners. Let's educate ourselves and our kids and truly take charge of our bodies making abortions rare.
@itsonlymepeople I agree with the statement that using abortion is birth control is a bad idea. But does anybody actually do this consciously? Most people who have abortions were either being careless or weren't properly educated, few say to themselves "Screw it, if I get pregnant I'll have an abortion"
(CONT) From the moment of conception that one cell has a different genetic makeup than every other cell in a womans body. Obviously, because it's only half hers. You can choose to have sex or not. You can choose to use birth control or not. If you choose to use birth control you can choose if the man, woman or both will use birth control. Will the man choose a condom, get a vasectomy, pull out. etc.? Will the woman choose the pill, a diaphragm, female condom,etc.? (CONT)
Being pro-life is the same as saying anti-choice. Usually men are pro-life because they feel women are not capable of making their own decisions. And women are usually pro-life who like their lives being controlled by men. I wouldnt mind the law either way as long as only women got to vote on it. Men should have no final say in the outcome of laws regarding abortion. Any male who is a diehard pro-lifer, is also a woman abuser. Or at least, looks down on females as sub-human.
I can't stand the labels "pro-life" and "pro-choice" since neither term addresses the actual issue. The first presumes the other side is pro-death when in reality they're concerned with the quality of life an unplanned pregnancy would produce. The second presumes the other side is against a woman's right to determine what health choices to make for her own body. They can never understand where the other side is coming from because they're not arguing about the same thing, abortion itself. (CONT)
I haven't met a feminist yet who isn't "pro-life." "Pro-life" is a misnomer; the actual term should be "anti-choice." This isn't just semantics; this is propaganda and a strawman argument. I know almost all feminists are PRO-CHOICE. I don't see how a feminist can be anti-choice. Personally, as a life-long feminist, I am pro-choice, politically. Except in cases of danger to MY life, however, I would not choose abortion. It's a silly argument.
@rriverstone1 Agreed. Don't play their game - THEY decided to call themselves "pro-life" to sound more appealing. Who isn't "pro-life"? Well except that most of those self-same "pro-life" folks are also pro-death penalty and pro-premeptive war and pro-protectionism, all of which kill far more than abortion.
What they really are are anti-choice, which technically makes them pro-slavery (since if I can't control my body, someone else does and that is slavery) and authoritarians.
@SAHBfan I agree. Seeing this as a matter of "rights" is very much an artifact of Western culture. Evolution has programmed us in certain ways over millions of years. To say that reproduction, one of the most basic drives of living beings, can be dealt with as just another "right" like freedom of speech or the right to vote, well, it trivializes the evolutionary importance of reproduction. Laws can be made concerning it, but not as just one more in a laundry list of rights.
"Pro-life" is such an inaccurate and dishonest descriptor for the position; pure propaganda. Even anti-abortion isn't quite right, as one could be disinclined towards abortion but still support a woman's choice. It's really just anti-choice. Pro-life is just a bullshit term that means fascist.
"Even anti-abortion isn't quite right, as one could be disinclined towards abortion but still support a woman's choice"
I agree with that. Honestly, who is "pro abortion"? Pro choice is the most appropriate title for a broad general position.
I & I assume many other pro choicers nevertheless don't like the idea of abortion but the issue can't be forced underground for the sake of women's health & safety. Unpopular as it may be I think the issue should be raised & addressed.
You can't blame Tony Abbott for calling abortion 'the easy way out'. Our pollies are used to doing things the hard way. How do we tackle Al Qaeda? Send our young men & women to kill & die in a quagmire against the Taliban. Apparently being pro death sometimes is okay if there's an excuse. But we better protect those opium crops! Afghani farmers have to eat y'know! We'll just try to stop that nasty heroin once it gets all the way to our kid's street corner! Sorted!
Some of these are genuinely deliberate state sanctioned extermination of human life (war, police deadly force, death penalty etc). Even the more nuanced ones like legalisation of & accepting political donations from big tobacco (smoking kills more Aussies every year than anything else) or the Catholic church's stance on condoms even in AIDS regions still result in people being no less dead.
'Pro life' politics embraced by.anyone is a hypocritical defunct scam. End abortion? End rape/incest first
Sure, you can be a feminist and be pro-life. There's nary a blatantly self-contradictory position that can't be shored up with lashings of cognitive dissonance. Kind of like being a Christian and being a scientist!
No, of course you fucking can't. You can maybe manage it in alternating shifts, but not at the same time. Try it! Your head will explode just like in Scanners. Don't say I didn't warn you.
Technically feminists can justifiably believe they're pro life; Feminism to me means a woman's right to think & act for herself to whatever end she sees fit ethically, sexually, philosophically financially etc.
The real problem is 'pro life' itself as a stance. I don't believe anyone is truly pro life. Ask enough questions & pro lifers will support at least 1 of the following;
@TheNarcMan While I agree that people describing themselves as pro-life are hypocrites, some of those examples are a little ridiculous. The inevitable result of life is death, but that doesn't mean every single thing that doesn't extend life to the maximum is anti-life. Things like alcohol and tobacco are choices people make. Your definition of "pro-life" appears to be a totalitarian society where everyone is forced 24/7 to do whatever the state deems will maximise the length of your life.
I'd like you to be a bit more specific if you could.
"Things like alcohol and tobacco are choices people make"
So is abortion. Smoking is knowingly playing russian roullette with your health & the health of those around you. Smoking kills more people every year in Aus than all other leading forms of death combined. Those people are no less dead than an aborted embryo. It's ok coz it's legal & political parties get big donations? Meh.
Only if you have MAJOR cognitive dissonance you chose to ignore. That's because pointing out the obvious here a fetus ISN'T A BABY!!!!!!! Worthy of human being status above an actual human being. GRR... >.> I get so annoyed when people don't see that.
What gets me is that anyone still distinguishes between those two (and a great many other, infact) things. Human life is human life is human life, you know? A person can be a lot of things and value human life at the same time without any cognitive dissonance.
The choice I support is to not let things like superstition, ignorance, bigotry, and fairy tales prevent women worldwide from obtaining cheap, effective, unobtrusive birth control.
I have to say yes to the question. If a person values the life of a fetus and considers abortion a right to life issue, they can still value women and consider the issue of men's and women's equality to be important. The two don't contradict each other. In this case, we would be talking about a person who has two equally important values that don't appear to mesh, but it wouldn't mean they don't hold both values.
I am pro choice until the 2nd trimester but it isn't really a matter of being opposed to equality for the pro lifers. They see it as a lifeform and eliminating it is murder. I think they are wrong since it lacks a functioning brain. But from their stand point they can be for pushing an otherwise equal status between the sexes but see a utilitarian principle where protecting life is concerned.
Yes,only a small minority of ppl support baby murders..Pro-killing-babies use the most despicable n' sickening nazi-like rhetoric.
Recent polls show, in spite the billions used to advertise the liberal death machine, 60% of Americans consider abortions morally despicable, 70+% want them restricted to minimum (rape,lifetreating situations etc)or totally banned.
Prodeathers sound more and more like Nazis,and that's the reason that their sickening ideology causes to the general public a revolt.
@Sweddude Although I am pro-Choice (But I don't support second trimester abortions), "It's not a baby, it's a fetus" is a weak argument and just distracting from the subject.
A fetus in the 7. month reacts to his mother's voice specifically. It's already recognizing and bonding. Early births have survived as far back as the sixth month.
Hell, even the day before birth, fully developed, technically it's still a fetus.
So what value has it to point out that it's a fetus?
@AmetReloads I just looked the stats up. 48% are pro choice in the US, which is within the standard error of 50%. So basically 50% of America are pro choice. Don't exaggerare how many people are pro life.
Pro-life is actually anti-life because 500 thousand people die of pregnancies. Sure 13 percent of those deaths are caused by UNSAFE abortions but the reason why so a bit more than 1/10 end in death is because abortion providers have to put their life on the line to be in that profession.
Dr. Tiller was murdered because pro-life fucktards called him Tiller the Baby Killer until some asshole snapped and was a pro-life murderer.
Pro-lifers make the situation worse. ESPECIALLY with their rhetoric
makaisenki 1 day ago
I am all for pro-choice to put a condom on and use birth control. I am sick of stupid women wasting time when real issues should be addressed. Go watch some 3rd trimester abortions; nothing like a good skull cracking to start your day. Pro-choice women I see at rally's are usually the unfuckable truckdriver/viking look alikes i wouldnt touch with a ten foot pole.
szpunar33 5 days ago
You keep saying it is the women's choice. She has the right to do with her body has she see fit. An abortion is the removal of a fetus or baby. Another person. Even if you don't believe it is a baby it is not her body she is dealing with. The right is not longer hers.
toria1311 5 days ago
@toria1311 So women who are dying because the fetus got infected have no right to abort the pregnancy and should just die?
Women that have a miscarriage should be put on trial on the charge of involuntary manslaughter?
When you start talking about killing another human being on the same terms as aborting a fetus, you're basically making people who have miscarriages criminals.
If aborting a fetus is akin to killing a child then a miscarriage is akin to accidental manslaughter end discussion.
makaisenki 1 day ago
Of course someone can be a feminist and pro-life, but that's the problem with third wave feminist movements, they are contradictory and opinions are often extreme in nature. The first wave succeeded because the majority found a common ground, white middle class women.
IfJesusWoreAHat 2 weeks ago
I agree with you. A woman who labels herself a feminist, who also opposes women controlling their own reproduction, has an undeclared masculinist and conservative agenda.
goldentalon 3 weeks ago
But why would anyone want to be a feminist anyway? I mean, I'm all for equality between the sexes regarding just about everything. But the feminists I know, mostly from university groups, put women above men. Heck, I dated a feminist. It can't work if you're always in the doghouse just for existing...
loveinreturn 3 weeks ago
Ohh, but you're saying someone who is pro-life is someone who looks down on the choice for abortion. I suppose there is a cultural gap then, I don't think someone like that can be a feminist, I simply assumed such a choice would be made by a woman and the man should simply go with whatever choice she makes.
TheSngcoach 3 weeks ago
Giving women the choice to do what is or is not best for them clearly has nothing to do with feminism. Should women have the right to mutilate themselves? Should women have the right to mutilate their babies? They can choose to do what is not best for them, so are these issues related to feminism in any way? I don't think so, I think feminism is simply about equality of rights.
TheSngcoach 3 weeks ago
I don't think there is even a connection between abortion and equal rights, I think Singer is a good philosopher in this regards, he's very analytical in his approach of abortion.
TheSngcoach 3 weeks ago
"not telling women what's best for them, but giving them the choice to do [...]"
This is interesting, you're phrasing it in such a way, assuming there is an agent "telling women" or "giving women a choice", is this agent a male figure?
I'm a feminist, and I don't think in such a way, I assume there is no fundamental difference between genders, which would justify different sets of rights.
TheSngcoach 3 weeks ago
No. In order to be pro-life and secular you have to be a humanist. Feminism is about privileging the woman in all contexts.
imshippyupup 3 weeks ago
A fetus is a human and it is alive. I am pro-life because I believe in and respect ALL stages of HUMAN LIFE. The fetus has a body of it's own, from conception it has all the 23 pairs of chromosones that we have.
chewystewy 3 weeks ago
I would say that almost all Republicans are pro-life and belief in the sanctity of life. BUT then
they are also pro-war. Hmmmmmmmmm......I wonder if there is any merit in their believes.
sinnieleeonUtube 4 weeks ago
You can of course be feminist and pro life. The first feminists were pro life. Feminism was not about the right to choose who should live and who should die, it was about bringing equality for all. Women of all people should understand the oppression once faced, and now it is okay to do the same to an unborn baby? Raising a status as more equal than another was never feminist. It's an agenda. Pro life feminism teaches that society should do more for women to give them a real choice.
SpiritualMediumSarah 1 month ago
1:19 "do whatever they like with their bodies"
A life inside is not their body. You can't understand the opposing view until you let go of this. I'm neutral because I don't care either way, but it's important to point out that you're going to offend people with that phrase. It talks over them without acknowledging their position.
If you make more videos like this, you should start by stating their position. It helps with feedback.
I've also heard "atheists/liberals can't be pro-life" too...
PoweredByMagnets 1 month ago in playlist More videos from FearBlandness
No , you cannot be a feminist and be against the freedom to choose . Can you be a christian fundi prolifer and be for the death sentence? Antichoicers are brain dead , brain washed ,zombies pushing their religous crap on other people to control their minds and lives . If a woman wants an abortion she should be able to have it . I don't know the definition of the word feminist , so I won't rant anymore . Feminism to me means women should have the same equal rights as men .
bonnevie9 1 month ago
@kiittenwolf Are you serious? I wasn't making an argument, just pointing out what I thought (and what most human beings would consider) a typographical error. But since you bring it up, referring to "children" as "consequences" for their parents' "irresponsibility" is dehumanizing, demoralizing, and utterly degrading. How could you articulate such a disgusting equivocation?
Would you honestly tell a child born out of wedlock that he was a "punishment" for his parents mistake?
DBSpenser 1 month ago
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DBSpenser 1 month ago
@kiittenwolf Fallacies? What about my mom's situation was a fallacy? Have you really looked at what was going on before it was made legal? The back alley hack jobs, the coat hangers, boiling water, punches to the gut or a dozen other dangerous 'home remedies' that could kill them too or ruin their chances for future children. Those things really happened. You act like every birth is healthy and every foster family is safe and every child gets adopted. Your naivety is showing.
Psionic7Rat 1 month ago
To me, a women's right to choose is one of the most important issues for women's rights, so yes, I agree that you can't really be a feminist and be "pro-life" necessarily.
fruitikay 1 month ago
@kiittenwolf "There is absolutely nothing cruel about telling a woman she must carry a baby for a few months before she can give it up for adoption, because she was irresponsible and didn't use birth control."
I'm sure this is just poor phrasing, but justifying making women carry a pregnancy to term as punishment for having unprotected sex is a completely untenable position. Perhaps you would like to restate that...
DBSpenser 1 month ago
@DBSpenser Society wants women to believe that being pregnant is the worst thing your body can go through. They use words like "Parasite" to pin mother against child. Only this is not the worst thing the body can go through. Abortion has physical and psychological damages that last a life time.
SpiritualMediumSarah 1 month ago
@SpiritualMediumSarah I'm not sure what you mean by "Society wants women to believe that being pregnant is the worst thing your body can go through." I don't believe that, and I've never heard anyone claim that it is literally "the worst" thing to happen to a woman.
And, for the record, the unborn organism is technically a parasite- an organism that lives on another organism. Of course, this in itself does not validate the prochoice position.
DBSpenser 1 month ago
@DBSpenser "nd I've never heard anyone claim that it is literally "the worst" thing to happen to a woman." And yet my point is brought home by your comments which make pregnancy sound unnatural and unwanted by the body. All merely brought to you by a society which does not want to meet the needs of pregnant mothers, and so offers death as solution.
SpiritualMediumSarah 1 month ago
@SpiritualMediumSarah First of all, relax. I'm not being belligerent and yet you are completely misrepresenting what I am saying. Please don't put words in my mouth, that's uncalled for.
Pregnancy is natural, and it is, in some sense, "wanted" by a female body. You make it sound as if referring to a human organism as an organism is somehow dehumanizing. I am describing a biological function when I use the word "parasite."
DBSpenser 1 month ago
@SpiritualMediumSarah Biologically describing pregnancy is no more dehumanizing than describing our digestive system or pulmonary system or lymphatic system or anything of that sort. Whether or not the organism is a parasite has no bearing on the prochoice/prolife argument- it's a biological fact, that all.
DBSpenser 1 month ago
@DBSpenser Don't get me wrong, I'm not against PEOPLE that get an abortion, i'm against society which makes women feel that killing in their only way out. Whether society be fear or ridicule, not enough support (programs), not enough money, parental support-religious "persecution"..most are fear based abortions/birth control. All things being equal/healthy ,I really doubt, anyone under NO society pressure or fear would choose to kill. But alas, pressure comes in many guises.
SpiritualMediumSarah 1 month ago
@SpiritualMediumSarah And saying "it's natural" is not a valid argument. It was natural for our ancestors to die in the early twenties from tooth and gum disease, but surely you wouldn't complain about advances in dental hygiene. Now, as I have said, this does nothing to change the prolife/prochoice argument. My point is that a "state of nature" isn't always ideal in 21st century society.
DBSpenser 1 month ago
@DBSpenser ARe you comparing an unborn child...to plaque?
SpiritualMediumSarah 1 month ago
@SpiritualMediumSarah That's an incredible oversimplification of my point, which is this: Just because a biological function is "natural" is not a valid reason for subjecting human beings to the effects of that function.
DBSpenser 1 month ago
@DBSpenser lol, point was taken, though it is you oversimplifying abortion, by reducing procreation to something that needs to be stopped. Plaque harms, birth does not- unless you want to argue over rare occasions (but then, so can eating an apple make you choke). Your argument about brushing teeth, is a strawman and nothing more. As I said, you are proving my point that people want women to think of their body and womb as unnatural, harmful, scary. And that is anything BUT feminism.
SpiritualMediumSarah 1 month ago
@SpiritualMediumSarah See, now I could make a snippy comment about how you are comparing pregnancy to eating an apple, but that would be a very stupid thing to do.
And as I said before (it seems as if you don't actually read what I'm saying), I don't think of pregnancy as an unnatural occurrence, but just because something occurs naturally doesn't invalidate the claim that we might be better off if we artificially prevented it.
DBSpenser 1 month ago
@DBSpenser wrong. I was not comparing an apple to a baby, I was making an analogy about the fact that even the healthiest of things can cause damage, but we should not demonize them for such. We aren't discussing bodily functions, plaque, parasites, or anything unrelated...this is human life. If you want to dehumanize unborn children, that's up to you, but that's not what feminism proposed to accomplish.
SpiritualMediumSarah 1 month ago
@SpiritualMediumSarah I think our conversation is quite off topic from the video. I personally think that women can be feminist and prolife. If you want to discuss the video, I think Ms. Fearblandness makes some very bad prochoice arguments.
DBSpenser 1 month ago
@SpiritualMediumSarah I’m not trying to desensitize the issue, and the words I’m using are scientifically accurate. If you’re going to complain about the words I’m using, then this discussion has become ostensibly semantic. Use whatever word you like to describe the fact that the child relies on its mother for life-sustaining nutrients. I use the word “parasitic,” because that is the English definition of it, and if that offends you, make up a new word.
DBSpenser 1 month ago
@SpiritualMediumSarah “I was not comparing an apple to a baby, I was making an analogy about the fact that even the healthiest of things can cause damage…”
I know you weren’t, I made that clear, just like I wasn’t comparing plaque to a baby, I was making an analogy about the fact that “natural” things can cause damage.
DBSpenser 1 month ago
@DBSpenser The words that you use makes a huge point about society and psychology of our mind and views. If you can't see that as more than a semantic argument, there's no point in the discussion. We can agree to disagree, though I think even those who are pro choice, should look at cultural "norms" and word usage and always be questioning why.
SpiritualMediumSarah 1 month ago
@SpiritualMediumSarah FYI: Pregnancy is a bodily function. I’m sorry if it offends you to discuss the fact that we are biological organisms, and that birth is an organic process, and that we have sex organs in our body alongside other vital organs, and that we can be taxonomically classified as primates, etc. Studying human life in an objective manner is verifiable science, and you are completely demonizing this process.
DBSpenser 1 month ago
@DBSpenser Actually, you are not using the proper definition of a parasite, and so are scientifically inaccurate. It doesn't offend me in the slightest, but if you can't stop and think about why society chooses words then you haven't taken a well rounded look on the issue. Parasites are of a "different" species.
SpiritualMediumSarah 1 month ago
@SpiritualMediumSarah Yes, of course, a parasite is of a different species, I'm sorry if I phrased that poorly. But the relationship is "parasitic" in the sense that the child depends on its mother for survival.
DBSpenser 1 month ago
@DBSpenser If you want to argue that it is okay to abort because it is parasitic in nature-and you mean dependent. Then why can't a mother kill her 1 year old...and in some cases 30 year old dependent children? The argument is weak, as most children leach off their parents for support, food, money, attention, schooling, college etc etc.
SpiritualMediumSarah 1 month ago
@SpiritualMediumSarah You’re the one who complained about my word usage, I’m not interested in a semantic discussion. Just because something is “living” doesn’t mean it is important. Plants are living, insects are living, but their life isn’t very valuable. What I do care about- what I care very much about- is whether or not life is valuable. It’s not enough to say that something is alive- it must be a conscious creature.
DBSpenser 1 month ago
@SpiritualMediumSarah I am not arguing that dependency makes any difference at all. It doesn’t. I think that is one of the weakest prochoice arguments there is. In fact, I specifically said that it doesn’t matter, but you made up an argument for me and then attacked it.
I think it’s important for prolifers to ask the question “what makes life worth living?”
DBSpenser 1 month ago
@DBSpenser I obviously know that "bodily functions" are involved in pregnancy, but that it is not the issue-the issue is "life". Not degrading it to something that is less than that. And that was my point. We were all a fetus at one point. A fetus can dream, and can learn repetition, voices etc- A fetus is a learning, developing human being, so yeah-I do not see it as a "thing".
SpiritualMediumSarah 1 month ago
@DBSpenser The point of the video is: Can a feminist be Pro life? Yes. The very first feminists which fought for women's right were against abortion, and they did far more for women today. They are true feminist, not someone who would rather murder their unborn child than to carry it for 8-9 months. Women that struggled and worked hard for equality, just to have people use the label to justify harming others. Abortion is not equal rights.
SpiritualMediumSarah 1 month ago
@DBSpenser And if you truly believe you and others aren't being told by society that pregnancy is wrong, why compare it to tooth decay, parasites etc? Why use words that paint a negative picture and which are inaccurate? People do it for desensitization. The same reason most people don't order baby cows, they order "veal". Or they eat "rennet" and not baby cow stomach lining. Society plays a huge role in wording and how that makes people view the world.
SpiritualMediumSarah 1 month ago
@SpiritualMediumSarah In terms of genetics, the mother is actually pitted against the child. If resources are scarce (eg if the mother is malnourished), she and her child will fight for their own survival. The baby will attempt to exact proper nutrients from the mother's body, and the mother's body will fight to keep herself healthy. But again, this fact in itself does not validate the prochoice position.
DBSpenser 1 month ago
@DBSpenser There are not many women in developed countries using abortions for much more than a method of birth control. Nourishment isn't really an issue in those cases. Biologically, giving birth is natural- whereas abortions are not- so no, birthing a child is not statistically more psychologically&physically damaging for a mature female. Parasite? Just a way to dehumanize a person before you slaughter them. When one persons rights infringes on another's, what's 9 months?
SpiritualMediumSarah 1 month ago
@DBSpenser A females body is designed to carry a fetus and give birth. It's far from being a parasite.A parasite doesn't allow you to pass you genes forward, it does nothing to strengthen you're evolutionary chance at survival of your genes. Giving birth in natural for the body, wanted by the body, it is why women have a period. Parasites are foreign and unwanted by the body, the body doesn't prepare itself for a parasite. It does for a baby.It's just a word people use to desensitize
SpiritualMediumSarah 1 month ago
@SpiritualMediumSarah And it's true that abortion can have physical and psychological effects. So can carrying a pregnancy to term. Neither of these facts validates either the prolife or prochoice position.
DBSpenser 1 month ago
I wish the whole argument would shift to the far more practical issue of contraception - we have multiple ways of preventing the need for abortion and many women are TERRIBLE at using them...promote contraception til everybody's SICK of hearing about it (like theyre sick of hearng about the pro-life argument) and the number of abortions will be drastically reduced...some women seem to use abortion as contraception. Women who accidentally get pregnant actually say ' oh it just happened!' cont.
ezmereldagreen 1 month ago
@ezmereldagreen Well, it didn't just happen - you get pregnant when you dont use protection.I was lucky to be a teen when AIDS first hit, we were drilled to use condoms - the thought of having sex without was kind of gross.As i result i never got a disease and i never got pregnant until i stopped using condoms.Having a child made abortion seem really really awful but it is better than unwanted children.Drum it into kids heads that sex = babies UNLESS you take care- a much more positive campaign.
ezmereldagreen 1 month ago
No. I think women's rights have progressed over the years in terms of being controlled by a patriarchal system. With that being said, a lot of women's mentalities are still stuck in that archaic system. These women think that it's about being pro-life, but it's not. They're accustomed to complying with the norms of this system. This is really about being in their conditioned comfort zone as opposed to what's really right. A feminist wouldn't say that they agree with any patriarchal norm, right?
EatTinker 1 month ago
wow this is one ugly looking girl. Like she was tortured on a face stretching machine
MrThanksButNoThanks 1 month ago
@MrThanksButNoThanks You've got to be joking, she's insanely attractive.
SloMoHeap 1 month ago 3
@SloMoHeap right... few things as attractive as a long faced girl with messed up eyebrows and tattoos of her boob.... yer a fool
MrThanksButNoThanks 1 month ago
@MrThanksButNoThanks whatever you say hill billy
SloMoHeap 1 month ago
@kiittenwolf Most pro-lifers are pro-death penalty and anti-birth control, so if they had their way we'd be right back to the days before RoeV.Wade. Abortion isn't pretty, but sometimes it's one of those necessary evils. For me it boils down to the fact that I can't be cruel enough to tell a woman she *must* carry a child to term. I wouldn't even have told my own mother what to do when the doctors told her she had to abort me to save her life. It ultimately wasn't up to me.
Psionic7Rat 1 month ago
I'm a guy that has a problem with late term abortions. Not saying there are no circumstances where it would be necessary but shouldn't some consideration be given to the fetus as a human being? The charge that everyone who isn't prochoice 100% until birth is your prejudice against some free thinkers that are considering the life of the human fetus.
foxlake02 1 month ago
"Pro-life" is a BS term. Everyone is "pro-life" but you fall into the far right use of language by using their terms. It is either pro-choice or anti-choice.
corkbender 1 month ago
@kiittenwolf Now add to your scenario that your twin will kill you both in four months, separating the two of you will still take nine. What then? Ectopic pregnancies can and more often than not do kill the mother and child. Even as a 'humanist' issue, it's still a rough one because nothing is ever as clear cut as we wish it could be. Even if made illegal abortions would still happen. I'd just rather women have doctors to turn to, not back alley butchers.
Psionic7Rat 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
By "pro-life," are you suggesting that feminists have a reputation for being "anti-life?" I haven't met any anti-life feminists. Of course, I'm not saying none exist, but they appear to be as scarce as hen's teeth. Come to think of it, I haven't met anyone who's anti-life. Perhaps I have misapprehended your choice of words. Did you perchance mean "anti-reproductive rights for women?"
WildwoodClaire1 1 month ago
Comment removed
WildwoodClaire1 1 month ago
Oddly, here in the States, so called "pro-lifers" tend to be pro-death penalty, anti welfare for those with unwanted pregnancies and in general, anti-feminist. . Admittedly , many in our "pro-life" movement are influenced by their fundamental christian beliefs.
yuk.
moshegirl 1 month ago 2
Yes, I think you can be a feminist and pro-life as long as you don't impose your anti-abortion agenda onto another. We are not cookie cutter products. Can you really be atheist and Republican? Can you be Christian and homosexual? People have what is obvious contradictions to others. I am all for other people chosing for themselves, but it is a no for me. It is also a mute point at this stage of life.
MsMommaRose 1 month ago
Abortion is not an issue to be approached by considering solely the rights of the mother. There is the very real and very important consideration of the rights of the unborn.
DBSpenser 1 month ago
@DBSpenser preach much
SloMoHeap 1 month ago
@SloMoHeap I suppose it depends what the topic is...
DBSpenser 1 month ago
It seems like your prochoice argument hinges of a faulty assumption- that the unborn organism is part of a woman’s body. Clearly, it is not. It is a separate organism, with unique genetic material, and which functions by a separate modus operandi from the mother. Though it enjoys a parasitic relationship with the maternal host for some time, it is definitively its own being. The question of a women’s right over her body is irrelevant, because the unborn organism is not part of her body.
DBSpenser 1 month ago
But since you do mention equality, why should men not have a say in the issue? If anything, that seems like a sexist and unequal opinion. We absolutely have the duty to protect children from being killed, if this is indeed what is happening.
It’s ironic, too, that you praised Christopher Hitchens (a pro-lifer) for being pro-feminist, and then make this video claiming that the two viewpoints are mutually exclusive.
DBSpenser 1 month ago
@DBSpenser Men should not have a say in the issue because it is not their body, health, or mental well being. Men have control of their own reproduction. You choose whom to have unprotected sex with and risk impregnating. After you "release", you no longer have any say until a child is given birth.
MsMommaRose 1 month ago
@MsMommaRose Yes, but what I don't think you understand is that the issue is not just about a woman's body, health, or mental well being either. Consider the health and well being of the body growing inside her. It's not a complaint that should be so readily dismissed.
Society has a duty to protect all life that deserves protection, regardless of what gender the members of society happen to be. I wasn't referring to the father of the child, I was referring to society as a whole.
DBSpenser 1 month ago
@MsMommaRose Also, perhaps it would be helpful to perform a reductio ad absurdum on this point. What if I asserted that, because a woman expends her capital, health, and well being raising a child, she has full rights over that child. If she wants to, she should be able to starve that child, or send it to live on the streets. After all, it is her food and house that the child is utilizing- shouldn't she have full rights over her property?
DBSpenser 1 month ago
@DBSpenser This comment shows you thinking abilities ceased to mature somewhere around your sixth birthday. No grown up conversation is possible.
MsMommaRose 1 month ago
@MsMommaRose Clearly when the conversation deteriorates into juvenile name calling and libelous ad hominem attacks it is not worth continuing.
DBSpenser 1 month ago
You mention “equality,” which is strange in an abortion context, because the choice to have an abortion could only be invoked by women. If, hypothetically, men had sovereignty over their unborn children, antiabortion laws would apply “equally” to them. Since this is inherently an issue in an exclusively female domain, the issue of gender equality is moot.
DBSpenser 1 month ago
As much admiration as I have for some of your thinking, you present very unsound prochoice arguments here. Regarding “semantics,” being prolife in the US means being anti-abortion, and nothing else. To fault the prolife movement because it gives women the “feeling” of guilt about having an abortion is completely irrelevant to the moral implications surrounding the issue.
DBSpenser 1 month ago
I'm not sure that one can publicly be for feminism issues (such as they are today, though I've not a good idea as to the state of female equality in Australia) and pro-life; but I can see that it wouldn't demand much in the way of mental gymnastics for a personal choice/moral opinion/what-have-you.
mikevalla 1 month ago
There's no clear definition about what makes someone a feminist or not, and nor should there ever be. If her opinion is alligned with some of the other issues that some consider part of the feminist movement then yes she is a feminist too, end of story.
Though, this is a pointless discussion. This kind of thinking promotes conformism: Should she have to agree with everything that the feminist movement is about? Should everyone conform with the norm of a label? This is against free thought.
dexter21380 1 month ago
You can't be pro-life and a feminist. It's her body its her right to choose, no one else, not the father, not her family, not religion and not the state should be able to force a woman to carry an embryo to term. Keep abortion legal and safe.
evileros1960 1 month ago
Pro life is anti choice. Anti choice is anti woman... at least from my perspective. Good viddy :)
Chimpdecheese 1 month ago
I don't know if you can actually *be* a feminist, but you can still be *convinced* that you're a feminist if you're pro life.
misternu 1 month ago
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kelliko70 1 month ago
I don't know about feminism and 'pro-life', they don't seem compatible but people define feminism so differently. As for females having the same rights as males - well, If men have the right to abort, so do women. ^_^
What I do know is that you can't be a feminist and a christian. At least not at the same time, not without some Orwellian doublespeak or utter disregard of the bible. (Hah, like christians've even read the bible.)
Ghutom 1 month ago
And I think young men should be involved in that discussion. Teenage boys, as a part of sex ed, should be talked through this procedure & the traumatic affect it can have on people. Maybe strong volunteers could go to schools & tell boys what they went through (people's judgement, psychological trauma) to show them the possible results of selfish sexual habits (not wearing protection). Just because men produce sperm & eggs are in women doesn't make this all a burden of secrecy/blame women carry
TheNarcMan 1 month ago
no
videoguy604 1 month ago
Can you sue someone for saying you are a member of a religion?
mortensjoegren 1 month ago
I agree. You can argue with semantics as you said, but if pro-life for you also means anti-choice then no, I don't think you can be a feminist.
...And fuck Tony Abbott for those comments! (I think they featured in a GetupAustralia commercial during the 2010 elections)
BlueJupiter91 1 month ago
What is a feminist? I mean today what does the word mean? What "values"? As with all ideological positions the range of views can be expansive. If for example "she" (the god bothering creationist Christian mental case) believes in real wage equality regardless of gender, is she more of a feminist than the "woman who is a far right economist" who believes wages should be set between the individuals without regulation or minimum standards. If the woman wants to work for less let her why not?
franks2732 1 month ago
@franks2732 Note I do not agree with the example of the economist or the fundie being a fundie, but the point should be made, is the woman who is involved in editing the "Woman's Weekly" a feminist when she allows diet add after diet add, followed by stories that highlight 'how to get your man". Why men think the way they do etc etc? I think I may do a video response
franks2732 1 month ago
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MikaelDryden 1 month ago
Of course you can. You can even be for legislation against abortion. If you think a fetus is a baby, and abortion is murder how does that reflect on your belief in equal rights for women?. You can likewise be a pro-choice, pro-gay rights Christian. Of course Christians would say that person "isn't a Christian" in the same way that you are saying this woman "isn't a feminist".
TheNakedAtheist 1 month ago
Continued...
In fact the argument that a pro-gay rights Christian isn't a "true Christian" is a much stronger one because the anti homosexual sentiment is actually part of the Christian dogma, while feminism has no such pro-choice dogma.
TheNakedAtheist 1 month ago
can you be a vegan and Own a cattle ranch? why yes you can Hippocrates are everywhere, the sad fact about life is that no matter where you look everyone everywhere in every way shape and form everyone is a Hippocrate. Even me, even you, everyone. I know my hippocracies, as we all know we have them, but vegans, feminist, activists, religious, and politicians happen to be the largest of these Hippocrates...
Sindrake 1 month ago
@Sindrake - Hippocrates is everywhere?
tommylehman 1 month ago
@tommylehman Everywhere, show me one person who isn't.. Even the Christians Version of Jesus was in fact a Hypocrite, he showed wrath in the temple, (a human sin) hmm Wrath of God,. yet god is sinless?,. yes Hypocrites everywhere
Sindrake 1 month ago
@Sindrake
While I'm 100% pro-choice, in fact you might even call me pro-abortion. I see no hypocrisy in someone believe in equal rights for woman, while believing a fetus is a human life, and abortion is murder.
TheNakedAtheist 1 month ago
@TheNakedAtheist While you may not be a Hypocritical person in this particular area, lets say you hate the senseless slaughter of animals. (Or some other small example similar) And you kill a spider, and or hire exterminators for Roaches or some other vermin. Within me I know what things i am hypocritical in, and you know there are some minor things that you are also. Now aren't I right?
Sindrake 1 month ago
@Sindrake
Huh? I never argued that hypocrisy didn't exist, or that it wasn't rampant. I'm simply saying it isn't, as your comment in the context of this video implies, hypocritical to be pro womens rights, and anti what one might believe is baby killing.
TheNakedAtheist 1 month ago
@TheNakedAtheist OK then lets put it this way, Feminism protect woman's rights, an embryo can be female, in fact all are female prior to genetics choosing the sex, hence all embryos aborted pregender, are female, hence feminist supporting abortion is feminist agreeing to kill females... think about it
Sindrake 1 month ago
You can be anything you want to be
All the people are strange as far as i can see
Where is the porn on youtube
ailm96094 1 month ago
@ailm96094 ROTFL
rigapov5000 1 month ago
Pro-Life isn't. It is just anti-choice. I have never met anyone who fought against abortion AND war. Most of the anti-choice people are pro-gun. How do you figure that one out?
Jesse272m 1 month ago
@hildegain No, you just aren't good at reading. As I did not intend contradiction in what I stated, that will leave you with the burden of shifting your premise. Felel free to reply if you intend to do so, otherwise, keep your immemorial arguments, I've heard them before.
lambdog76 1 month ago
@lambdog76 You may not have intended a contradiction but it was there in the text, don't say I'm not good at reading when it was your comment at fault. You failed to express yourself in a clear and concise manner without contradiction, your fault, not the reader's.
The goal of feminism was to give women freedom, stripping women of the freedom to choose is a direct contradiction.
hildegain 1 month ago
@hildegain I was unaware the of exclusiveness of the Feminist Doctrine. Thank you for the clarification.
lambdog76 1 month ago
1. (To address an irrelevant point on a feminism question) - Cute!
2. "Pro-Life" is a loaded label which does mean "anti-abortion." The Pro-life position has no middle ground. Most humans are for life, but "Pro-life" means no abortions for anyone ever under any circumstances.
3. I agree with you. There is a valid argument about morality or when life begins, but one cannot advocate for female rights and autonomy while treating women as fleshy incubators once they have been inseminated.
geekalpha 1 month ago
I believe so. The concept of feminism as I see it is for a woman to have an equal voice. Being unable to freely voice a personal opinion due to doctrine would be the antithesis of the movement's purpose.
lambdog76 1 month ago
@lambdog76 I'm pretty sure that counts as being an equal opportunist and having the right to choose.
As you put it, you actually contradicted your position. "Can you be Feminist and Pro-life", if feminists as you say want women to have the right to choose but at the same time don't want them to be able to choose whether or not to birth a child, that's a big contradiction.
hildegain 1 month ago
Yes one can be a feminist and pro-sex (pro-prostitution), pro-life, anti-choice, anti-life, a misogynist or any other thing. Why? Because each person needs to make the correct political decisions for themselves. I'm not ever going to tell any woman what to think. Freedom of thought is important. Also there are just too many factions of feminism at the moment for me to pretend there is any kind of party line.
Buntzums 1 month ago
I think that you could PERSONALLY be pro life, but as long as you are not voting or pushing to have choice taken away, yes I think you can be a feminist.
GraceAnnHawkins 1 month ago
All I can say, it's your body, your choice. Being a feminist means you HAVE to be pro-choice. If you're not pro-choice then you can't be a feminist. Doesn't make sense. To be a feminist means you support feminism...duh. The key word is CHOICE, and her choice shouldn't be swayed by an OPINION as to what's good or bad for her. An opinion that's pushed forward by religious zealots anyways. I'm pro-choice and I'm a male. It's like being anti-tech while using a computer to tell us about it.
Anunnak 1 month ago
I believe that you can take a moderate pro-life position, for example you would be ok with abortion in instances for the woman's health, rape, incest etc but not be ok in other circumstances. Would that be feminist position? I could see how someone may want to think it is.
dgeypscun 1 month ago
No, I don't think feminism can ever include the so-called "pro-life" position. It's dangerous to women, how could it possibly be held by anyone who cares about womens health? It can't.
shrikechan 1 month ago
Their choice to call their position "pro-life" is ridiculous. It always pisses me off when women, especially women who haven't been pregnant, act as if they have the right to tell a woman to put her life at risk just because they claim it's what they would do in her position. They don't really know what the hell they would do in that situation because women who are "pro-life" usually have never had to make that choice! "You can't do this because I wouldn't do it" That's their entire argument.
shrikechan 1 month ago
Too bad men hardly ever have a say in whether they want a child or not. They have no reproductive rights. So, are you sure there is equality?
avdmeers 1 month ago
Abortion is never an easy choice. But the choice has to be in the hands of the woman who has to make that choice. Nobody else, male or female, can -or should- decide for her.
I don't believe feminists can be anti-choice, though they may have different opinions on how to imply this freedom of choice. Not every feminist thinks the same, but the right to reproductive freedom for women is one of the main issues of feminism. Giving up this demand means, IMHO, giving up on feminism.
62netty 1 month ago
Shes kind of hot.
WonderfulDenmark 1 month ago
(CONT) Waiting until pregnancy to make a choice on birth-control when you knew beforehand you didn't want to have a child is just plain stupid on the part of men and women. Obviously, that choice is stolen from a woman during rape or incest. That being said, I really can't stand the thought of abortion becoming illegal again and having women butchered at the hands of unqualified practitioners. Let's educate ourselves and our kids and truly take charge of our bodies making abortions rare.
itsonlymepeople 1 month ago 4
@itsonlymepeople I agree with the statement that using abortion is birth control is a bad idea. But does anybody actually do this consciously? Most people who have abortions were either being careless or weren't properly educated, few say to themselves "Screw it, if I get pregnant I'll have an abortion"
StabbyRaccoon 1 month ago
(CONT) From the moment of conception that one cell has a different genetic makeup than every other cell in a womans body. Obviously, because it's only half hers. You can choose to have sex or not. You can choose to use birth control or not. If you choose to use birth control you can choose if the man, woman or both will use birth control. Will the man choose a condom, get a vasectomy, pull out. etc.? Will the woman choose the pill, a diaphragm, female condom,etc.? (CONT)
itsonlymepeople 1 month ago 3
Being pro-life is the same as saying anti-choice. Usually men are pro-life because they feel women are not capable of making their own decisions. And women are usually pro-life who like their lives being controlled by men. I wouldnt mind the law either way as long as only women got to vote on it. Men should have no final say in the outcome of laws regarding abortion. Any male who is a diehard pro-lifer, is also a woman abuser. Or at least, looks down on females as sub-human.
JabberCT 1 month ago
I can't stand the labels "pro-life" and "pro-choice" since neither term addresses the actual issue. The first presumes the other side is pro-death when in reality they're concerned with the quality of life an unplanned pregnancy would produce. The second presumes the other side is against a woman's right to determine what health choices to make for her own body. They can never understand where the other side is coming from because they're not arguing about the same thing, abortion itself. (CONT)
itsonlymepeople 1 month ago 3
You're cute.
caporalchef4 1 month ago
I haven't met a feminist yet who isn't "pro-life." "Pro-life" is a misnomer; the actual term should be "anti-choice." This isn't just semantics; this is propaganda and a strawman argument. I know almost all feminists are PRO-CHOICE. I don't see how a feminist can be anti-choice. Personally, as a life-long feminist, I am pro-choice, politically. Except in cases of danger to MY life, however, I would not choose abortion. It's a silly argument.
rriverstone1 1 month ago
@rriverstone1 Agreed. Don't play their game - THEY decided to call themselves "pro-life" to sound more appealing. Who isn't "pro-life"? Well except that most of those self-same "pro-life" folks are also pro-death penalty and pro-premeptive war and pro-protectionism, all of which kill far more than abortion.
What they really are are anti-choice, which technically makes them pro-slavery (since if I can't control my body, someone else does and that is slavery) and authoritarians.
johnycannuk 1 month ago
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Puchicas9 1 month ago
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Puchicas9 1 month ago
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Puchicas9 1 month ago
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Puchicas9 1 month ago
@SAHBfan I agree. Seeing this as a matter of "rights" is very much an artifact of Western culture. Evolution has programmed us in certain ways over millions of years. To say that reproduction, one of the most basic drives of living beings, can be dealt with as just another "right" like freedom of speech or the right to vote, well, it trivializes the evolutionary importance of reproduction. Laws can be made concerning it, but not as just one more in a laundry list of rights.
Puchicas9 1 month ago
@SAHBfan Definitely. I do not think it should be a black and white issue.
ericaj58 1 month ago
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Primordialfan1 1 month ago
Nope.
SteDeRaver 1 month ago
I find this easy masturbating too
GnomesAmok 1 month ago
"Pro-life" is such an inaccurate and dishonest descriptor for the position; pure propaganda. Even anti-abortion isn't quite right, as one could be disinclined towards abortion but still support a woman's choice. It's really just anti-choice. Pro-life is just a bullshit term that means fascist.
tml4873 1 month ago
@tml4873 Exactly. It's like "pro-marriage" and "pro-family. I hate these dishonest and weaselly terms from those language-abusing fuckers.
WigglyMalmsteam 1 month ago
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@tml4873
"Even anti-abortion isn't quite right, as one could be disinclined towards abortion but still support a woman's choice"
I agree with that. Honestly, who is "pro abortion"? Pro choice is the most appropriate title for a broad general position.
I & I assume many other pro choicers nevertheless don't like the idea of abortion but the issue can't be forced underground for the sake of women's health & safety. Unpopular as it may be I think the issue should be raised & addressed.
TheNarcMan 1 month ago
Right wingers pro life until your born .
woofalot13 1 month ago
Simple no !
woofalot13 1 month ago
@FearBlandness
You can't blame Tony Abbott for calling abortion 'the easy way out'. Our pollies are used to doing things the hard way. How do we tackle Al Qaeda? Send our young men & women to kill & die in a quagmire against the Taliban. Apparently being pro death sometimes is okay if there's an excuse. But we better protect those opium crops! Afghani farmers have to eat y'know! We'll just try to stop that nasty heroin once it gets all the way to our kid's street corner! Sorted!
TheNarcMan 1 month ago
Some of these are genuinely deliberate state sanctioned extermination of human life (war, police deadly force, death penalty etc). Even the more nuanced ones like legalisation of & accepting political donations from big tobacco (smoking kills more Aussies every year than anything else) or the Catholic church's stance on condoms even in AIDS regions still result in people being no less dead.
'Pro life' politics embraced by.anyone is a hypocritical defunct scam. End abortion? End rape/incest first
TheNarcMan 1 month ago
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Sure, you can be a feminist and be pro-life. There's nary a blatantly self-contradictory position that can't be shored up with lashings of cognitive dissonance. Kind of like being a Christian and being a scientist!
No, of course you fucking can't. You can maybe manage it in alternating shifts, but not at the same time. Try it! Your head will explode just like in Scanners. Don't say I didn't warn you.
InvincibleIronyMan 1 month ago
Those who are pro-choice support abortion.
youthforlifeireland 1 month ago
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InvincibleIronyMan 1 month ago
Technically feminists can justifiably believe they're pro life; Feminism to me means a woman's right to think & act for herself to whatever end she sees fit ethically, sexually, philosophically financially etc.
The real problem is 'pro life' itself as a stance. I don't believe anyone is truly pro life. Ask enough questions & pro lifers will support at least 1 of the following;
War
Death penalty
Police use of deadly force
Guns
Legal tobacco
Legal alcohol
Anti stem cell
Anti condom in AIDS regions
TheNarcMan 1 month ago
@TheNarcMan While I agree that people describing themselves as pro-life are hypocrites, some of those examples are a little ridiculous. The inevitable result of life is death, but that doesn't mean every single thing that doesn't extend life to the maximum is anti-life. Things like alcohol and tobacco are choices people make. Your definition of "pro-life" appears to be a totalitarian society where everyone is forced 24/7 to do whatever the state deems will maximise the length of your life.
tml4873 1 month ago
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@tml4873
"some of those examples are a little ridiculous"
I'd like you to be a bit more specific if you could.
"Things like alcohol and tobacco are choices people make"
So is abortion. Smoking is knowingly playing russian roullette with your health & the health of those around you. Smoking kills more people every year in Aus than all other leading forms of death combined. Those people are no less dead than an aborted embryo. It's ok coz it's legal & political parties get big donations? Meh.
TheNarcMan 1 month ago
All feminism is about is women's human rights, it does not include murder or breaking the law which many would feel is not a "right"
cero2515 1 month ago
Only if you have MAJOR cognitive dissonance you chose to ignore. That's because pointing out the obvious here a fetus ISN'T A BABY!!!!!!! Worthy of human being status above an actual human being. GRR... >.> I get so annoyed when people don't see that.
MistressArte 1 month ago
What gets me is that anyone still distinguishes between those two (and a great many other, infact) things. Human life is human life is human life, you know? A person can be a lot of things and value human life at the same time without any cognitive dissonance.
The choice I support is to not let things like superstition, ignorance, bigotry, and fairy tales prevent women worldwide from obtaining cheap, effective, unobtrusive birth control.
zEropoint68 1 month ago
I have to say yes to the question. If a person values the life of a fetus and considers abortion a right to life issue, they can still value women and consider the issue of men's and women's equality to be important. The two don't contradict each other. In this case, we would be talking about a person who has two equally important values that don't appear to mesh, but it wouldn't mean they don't hold both values.
Friendough 1 month ago
I can't really figure out what feminists are talking about so I guess I can't answer the question....
PlutoPowered 1 month ago
I don't think that you can have a brian and be "Pro-life"
klangeddon 1 month ago
I am pro choice until the 2nd trimester but it isn't really a matter of being opposed to equality for the pro lifers. They see it as a lifeform and eliminating it is murder. I think they are wrong since it lacks a functioning brain. But from their stand point they can be for pushing an otherwise equal status between the sexes but see a utilitarian principle where protecting life is concerned.
MrNicMachiavelli 1 month ago
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MrNicMachiavelli 1 month ago
Yes,only a small minority of ppl support baby murders..Pro-killing-babies use the most despicable n' sickening nazi-like rhetoric.
Recent polls show, in spite the billions used to advertise the liberal death machine, 60% of Americans consider abortions morally despicable, 70+% want them restricted to minimum (rape,lifetreating situations etc)or totally banned.
Prodeathers sound more and more like Nazis,and that's the reason that their sickening ideology causes to the general public a revolt.
AmetReloads 1 month ago
@AmetReloads Fetus, its not a baby, its a fetus, youre geting them mixed up.
Sweddude 1 month ago 4
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PeterK1984 1 month ago
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@Sweddude Although I am pro-Choice (But I don't support second trimester abortions), "It's not a baby, it's a fetus" is a weak argument and just distracting from the subject.
A fetus in the 7. month reacts to his mother's voice specifically. It's already recognizing and bonding. Early births have survived as far back as the sixth month.
Hell, even the day before birth, fully developed, technically it's still a fetus.
So what value has it to point out that it's a fetus?
PeterK1984 1 month ago
@AmetReloads I just looked the stats up. 48% are pro choice in the US, which is within the standard error of 50%. So basically 50% of America are pro choice. Don't exaggerare how many people are pro life.
MrNicMachiavelli 1 month ago