The Arminians believe in God's Love and desire to save all(1Timothy 2:3-4;2Peter 3:9;John 3:16).The Calvinist believe in the Sovereingty of God in salvation(Isaiah 46:10; Isaiah 55:10-11;Ephesians 1:11). Isn't the combination of their theologies Biblical Universalism?
Well buddy you can try to deny it all you want but using 2 Pet 3:9 AND Isa 46:10 together you just did prove Universalism. Perhaps the scriptures weren't intended to be taken quite so literally and cross referenced together in such an arbitrary manner.
I enjoyed how you used painting and art related themes in yor presentation. Consider creation, We can only see part of the great paintingt that creation is. We have no idea, really, of the "big picture". We can guess, theorize, philosophize all we want..but really we're only guessing. However, as believing Christians, we have to follow what our Lord said. He talked more about gehenna, exorcized demons etc. to show us his mission is the destruction of evil. I want to see the finished painting.
Peter is only writting concerning the elect, he never writes to the unsaved who have not the Spirit about His will. Unless in particular to save them., God does not refer to the non elect in teaching.God is not un willing that any elect go without repentance ( which only the elect can do).Perish here is physical not eternal(context) Peter is only writting to the elect there is no extension of pleading with the unsaved.
Let's say I make a robot and program it to be evil and kill. I then send it off on its mission. Who is then guilty for the crimes it commits. The robot which had no choice or free will or the programer who made it that way? James 1:13" let no man say when he is tempted , I am tempted of God for God cannot be tempted with evil neither tempteth he any man." According to James, we do have a choice as humans to choose right or wrong.
No, James is saying that GOD doesn't tempt. That does not mean you inject anything you want into the statement. James is not referencing "free-will" at all. He is responding to a fatalistic mentality that many had at the time. However, we do no that Satan temps, so, how does that fit into your idea of choice? The Reformed position believes man has the ability to choose, however, they believe that prior to being regenerated by the spirit, men will always choose what is...
@horseman528 ...contrary to God and His person. The robot argument is not only invalid, it is one based in ignorance. The dialogue isn't about "choices" it's about God's role in your Salvation. Is it subjective? Relative? Random? Based on Chance? That is the position of the "free-will" advocate. The other position is that all good things come from above. Faith is good, repentance is good, salvation is good and the ability to choose what is good comes directly from God. It's one or the other.
@horseman528 why do freewillers always take this verse out of context? why did you not keep reading ?it says sin its already in us GOD does not have to tempt people to do what they already want to do because sin drives them to do it i.e. no freewill we are slaves to sin not unwillingly but willingly
@patriotsfan1379 If you say that man willingly chooses to sin then that means that man also has the ability to choose to do right. In other words, you cannot say that God only gives us a choice to commit sin but not right. Otherwise it would not be a choice. In other words, how can you call choosing to sin a choice if thats the only option you have? A choice implys two or more possibe selections. Only one option is a one way street where there is no choice. Calvinism is illogical and false.
@horseman528 did i say that? the bible teaches that! now i know that people who don't understand the meaning of words want to play with them ; men willingly choose to sin because it is their nature to sin we are slaves of sin ephesians 2 ;1'6 it is not calvinisim you are against you hate the bible you only like what makes you feel good but if it says you are a sinner or wicked you hate that you say its calvinisim but its not you hate the bibles accusations against mankind you are a humanist
@patriotsfan1379 Evidently, you don't understand what I'm saying. Bad people can do good things and good people can do bad things. Both are condemned if they do not take Christ as their savior because all have sinned. Rom. 3:23 Where I part with calvinism is when they teach that God picks who will be saved and by exclusion who will be lost and man has no ability to choose one way or the other. Matt. 23:37 clearly shows that men do have a choice.
@horseman528 no mat;23;37 just furthers the point of mans depravity!! GOD had sent prophets and had done many miracles yet man was still obstinate in unbelief it is the condition of all humans !!we don't believe GOD because we can't !!it is only when GOD turns our heart of stone and gives us a new 1 than we can believe!! it is only pride to think thatyou can come to Christ whenever you want JESUS said "" no one can come to me unless the Father draws him""
@patriotsfan1379 One of the tenets of calvinism is irresistable grace that says that once God calls you that you can't resist coming to God. The point of Matt. 23:37 and Luke 13:34 is that God through Christ desired for these people to be saved but because of their stubborness and rebellion, they refused. In other words, they had a freewill to chose or why would God send prophets to them in the first place? Or why even preach the gospel if God does all the work? We could lay back and just wait.
@horseman528 no!!! not at all!!! GOD sends prophets to people because in the midst of them there are those whom HE has elected!! JESUS said"" he who has ears to hear let him hear"" HE also sends them so that people won't be able to say i never heard!! and HE also sends them to prclaim judgement like when HE said be ever hearing but not understanding !! JESUS also said HE would speak in parables because the kingdom had been given to some!!we preach cause GOD has commanded to do so faith=works
@patriotsfan1379 You just proved my point. And who does he elect? Rom. 8:29 He predestinates those whom he foreknew would obey the gospel. Heb. 5:9 "And being mad perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto ALL THEM THAT OBEY HIM." God in His infinite knowledge knows ahead of time who will obey and who will not and it is those who obey He predestinates or calls. He hardens those who he knows ahead of time will not obey. Rom. 1:26 There is freewill but God knows what you will choose
@horseman528 i guess you don't know the meaning of predestined? and when the bible talks about knowing someone it is intimately knowing like a husband and a wife know each other better than friends would know them thats why to many HE will say depart from me I never knew you "GOD said to Israel only you have I known out of all the nations""question do you obey all on your own ? i only obey cause it is GOD who will in me and puts desires in me out of HIS good pleasure
@horseman528 not only that but only those who have been regenerated and given the gift of faith are those who truly obey GOD none others the bible makes it clear only those who are led of the SPIRIT are the sons of GOD
@horseman528 and if HE hardens people how can you say we have freewill ? isn't freewill being able to eithr choose this or that? how can HE harden someone if the person does not want to be hardened?
@horseman528 GOD has also decreed not only the end but also the means by which men should be saved!!" faith comes by hearing and hearing the word of GOD";""GOD has decided to save men by the foolishness of preaching"" plus the MASTER of the universe commands that we should preach it is not a sugestion!! no freewill
True, God doesn't want us to perish. HOWEVER, i think you are missing the point, somewhat. (no offence intended). God gives us FREE WILL. So in creating an intelligent creature with free will- and the ability to find our way back to him, he has made a true being of choice. Thats the point, he doesnt want us to perish, but WE need to want that too.
And scripture IS contradictory to itself! A book full of contradiction and errors, as Bart Ehrman puts it. Faith (pretending) that the bible is the word of God accomplishes nothing but more confusion and theological arguments. Where did all those denominations come from? From the thousands of ways there are to interpret the bible.
Carlton Pearson found the answer to this problem in his gospel of inclusion. It gets rid of all the theological arguments for or against. He is now a 'new thought' minister.
@k0smon ..But is he following the Inspired Word of God the Bible? The Ecumenical Movement is all-inclusive which we r warned against. It waters down the truth of Scripture 2 the point that it stops believing God's Word + makes it's own rules up. God wishes ALL 2 b saved. But it's ALWAYS going 2 b on God's terms, NOT the other way round! JOHN 3:1621...
Great video. That verse is a defence against those disbelieving Christ is God and that he will return as the answer of Peter was that the reason Christ has not come back is for thepurpose ofseeing more peoplesaved. Context rules!
It only makes God schizophrenic from the perspective of the Calvinistic distortion. I also noticed that he never addressed what the passage WAS saying. I am willing to discuss this. call me through the Apologetic Research Center; 614-388-8838
It only makes God schizophrenic from the perspective of the Calvinistic distortion. I also noticed that he never addressed what the passage WAS saying. I am willing to discuss this. call me through the Apologetic Research Center. Use a search engine.
It only makes God schizophrenic from the perspective of the Calvinistic distortion. I also noticed that he never addressed what the passage WAS saying. I am willing to discuss this. call me through the Apologetic Research Center. Google it.
It only makes God schizophrenic from the perspective of the Calvinistic distortion. I also noticed that he never addressed what the passage WAS saying. I am willing to discuss this. call me at the Research Center at 614-388-8838
Speaking of heresy :- What about 2Peter 3:10-13 Should we be waiting for a New Earth according to His promise and not heaven as is the general Christian doctrine.
@yarrw You are corrent the destination of the believer is a new heaven and a new earth. We will live on a new earth with nations, cities, activities and perfect purity and love. with God in perfect fellowship and worship.
@yarrw What is found in both 1st and 2nd Peter is many references to what has already been said by the prophets in the Old Testament. Peter, as Paul revealed, was sent primarily to the circumcision, who in being aware of the contents of the Old Testament would have known of those passages being referenced. Isaiah 13:13 which refers to the Lord shaking both the heavens and the earth was what he was pointing to; as well as to Malachi 4:1.
@yarrw Romans 8:19-22 reveals that the whole of creation awaits being delivered from the corruption it has been made to be subject to. When the sons of God are finally all manifested, it will be then shaking of the heavens and the earth will occur. The whole of creation will be redeemed to inherit a state where only righteousness dwells-without any reference to sin.
ALL calvinism is the pure worship of satan, but then again so is arminianism!
Yes, "lose your salvation" is the pure worship of satan. Both calvinism and arminianism("lose your salvation") are doctrines created/thought of/ made up by satan himself.
ALL calvinism is the pure worship of satan, but then again so is arminianism!
Yes, "lose your salvation" is the pure worship of satan. Both calvinism and arminianism("lose your salvation") are doctrines created/thought of/ made up by satan himself.
@jossalv1 It clearly DOESN'T mean Jesus. It's clearly talking about Created human beings. Is the Creator a sinner? GOD B TRUE + ALL MEN LIARS!!! JOHN 1 shows who the Creator is. Jesus is God in the flesh, the Saviour. Jesus couldn't b a Saviour if He had sinned. Jesus was tempted like all mankind but never gave in 2 temptation.
I am one jew who finds this synopsis totally confusing. It seems you expositors of your greek NT writings are masters of confusion. You don't get this kind of trickery and confusion from the Holy Torah/Tanakh. Your founders created a book full of mysteries and contradictions leaving the lay person in disgust.. Ancient greek is a terrible language given to lots of pagan interjections . You don't get that with Hebrew.
@LosAngeleno1959, Yes the Torah and Tanakh can! It can have just as much confusion depending on your intellect concerning the passages. Also I do believe the Tanakh but their are scribe errors unlike the NT. Look at the book of Chronicles for example it's full of scribe errors that contradict 1 Kings and the 2 books of Samuel. Also most anit-religious types use the Tanakh and Torah by cherry-pickeg verses to show how God is angry and evil and never in the NT.
@QuantumUni Really?, are you reading these passages from Chronicles in te Hebrew and from a Jewush text excluding the Septuagint? Just curious because there is no contradiction in the Hebrew. The confusion comes in when the Goyim tamper with the Holy tongue and translate the text into their gentile languages. But if you reading them in hebrew,please point that out to me and i'll point these so called errors to some Orthodox Chassidim.
If God purposed to see all come to repentance, then all must be saved, or there is a contradiction to the 2nd axiom.
There are souls that are in hell and going to hell.
Therefore the 'all' of 2 Peter 3:9 can only mean an all within a specific group in the Bible as the elect, God's peculiar people, the flock of the good Shepherd, etc.
The issues at large are what they have been since the beginning: the nature of God, the character of God. The fact that God is God, sovereign, righteous, holy, who does whatsoever he pleases offends even many sincere Christians. When God doesn't fit our idea of who we want him to be, or who we think he should be, then we raise our fists at God; we dispense with portions of Scripture, we take great pains to re-interpret whole passages to make it say what we want it to say.
When we, (yes we, I am a sinner too, whose heart has been enmity with God), humble ourselves before the Lord, and realize that his ways are not our ways, that his thoughts are not our thoughts, then the issue of God being absolutely sovereign will no longer be an offense, but actually a cause for praise and thanksgiving. Let God be God and do whatsoever he pleases-he will whether you let him or not anyway. Then you will know the joy and peace and hope of the Lord in spirit and truth.
When you live in the truth of God being God peace truly rises in the soul. When we see and know God's purpose is not being frustrated or hindered in anyway. Whether it be global catastrophes, national disasters, or family and even personal crisis in our lives; if we are trusting and believing in the God of all creation, we can rest in knowing that it is all according to his purpose of grace to the elect and wrath to those being fitted for destruction.
It becomes "self evident" that God's WILL in 2 Peter 3:9 can be understood with His Will in 1 Tim. 2:3-4 "This is good, and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires ALL people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." Romans 11:23, "For God has imprisoned ALL in DISOBEDIENCE, so that He may have MERCY ON ALL." "The conclusion is obvious" "to any biblical Christian","because the exact opposite of what this videos teaches, is taught everywhere in Scripture".
God ALSO doesn't "delight in the death of the wicked" Ez. 18:23-32, yet the Wicked still die, though "GOD does ALL that He pleases". While God does ALL that HE pleases, God cannot deny His holiness." God is LOVE, and so 2 Peter 3:9 makes perfect sense to a HOLY, ALL-LOVING God, and to His Free agents who can "Chose Life" (Deut. 30:19) but not to the Calvin God who acts NOT by Love, but by the "Good pleasure of His Will" and does "All that He pleases".
Peter is speaking about those who are in The Body already and not Satan's people. There is no such thing as once saved always saved. Those who God has drawn to His Son can and will lose their salvation "if" they do not continue with Him. We must "strive" to enter just like the Master said. Why "strive" if once saved always saved was true? There would be no reason to "strive". We must "strive" to enter through the narrow gate. Many believers will enter the broad way, which leads to destruction.
@SpirituallyTuned Salvation is entirely of the Lord, from beginning to end. If you find yourself striving, remaining steadfast, believing unto the end it is not to your credit that it occurs. Rather it is the mark of election of grace in you. It is the evidence of the gift of grace in you. Do you believe? Then praise the Lord for his gift of grace to believe. It is the Lord that shall perfect that which concerns all those that are his. He is the Author and Perfector of our faith. Amazing grace.
@HermitintheRain You know the early church believed and acted on belief that was EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE of what calvanists teach. many of you need to take a course on ealy church history from a good Bible school. None of the first or second century christian authors taught once saved always saved. they all believed that you had to PERSEVERE till you die or you were lost. they did not believe that God did that for you. Its prety eye opening to actually study some Church history.
@TheHellbinder Once saved always saved is also taught in Charismatic and some pentecostal churches. I think we need the teaching from the parable of the sower. Some are lost along the way.
@SpirituallyTuned Why strive? When we know the love of God, we don't strive because we don't want to lose our salvation. We strive because we love him who first loved us. We don't strive for fear, but for love. Song of Solomon illustrates that experience of being sick with love when we cannot have enough of the Lord. How he makes us to pant after him. It is a love that satisfies, yet we cannot have enough.
Jacob Arminain's postion would be closer to Calvin's than Wesley's. Wesley refused to believe in predestination altogether. Whitefield rebuked Wesley after Wesley preached a sermon on Free Grace. DO YOUR HOMEWORK. You will find that most of what you thought you knew is all from a humanist system built on not the Bible but on secular philosophy.
God's heart is that all would come to repentance. John Calvin wrote that. But he also wrote that only the Elect's eyes would only be open. Therefore the gospel call is to all, but only the elect wil be saved. I like to say that Jesus died for all. He died to justify some and condem others.
John Calvin wrote in his commentaries on 1 and 2 Peter that when Peter introduced the so-called elect in 1 Peter he stated that the elect was refering to the Jews. In 2 Peter 3:9 Calvin stated: Not willing that any should perish. So wonderful is his love towards mankind, that he would have them all to be saved, and is of his own self prepared to bestow salvation on the lost
Smartly worded video, it was worded in just the right way that you didn't get Lutherans in on the fight, lol. Indeed, Arminianism has no real ground for its doctrine of election. I believe that the Calvinist has stronger ground. The Bible is littered with evidence that God chooses us, not the other way around.
The solution to the verse above is that man is 100 percent responsible for his damnation. God is 100 percent responsible for man's salvation. Remember, god defies human reason.
Because God does not will any should perish does not mean he mandates that none should perish or that somehow means he mandates universialism. That is a leap of logic. I don't desire it either but like God i would never mandate because i would not want chatty cathy dolls in heaven that only love me because i coerced the.
Universalism of *some* kind is part of the Gospel - as is Election to salvation. The NT teaches both, not one or the other.
This should be easy for Calvinists to live with, because Calvinism is very good at accommodating paradoxes in its understanding of God and His ways. Well, the reality of both election and universalism in thise ways, is another paradox; not a contradiction or anything like that.
No, 2 Peter 3:9 does not make God Schizophrenic. But Calvinism would make Him shizophenic if it were true. Is it any wonder why atheists view Christianity as such a joke?
I am not saying that atheists are excused for that (although they would have an excuse if God ordained them to think that way), but Calvinism is turning a lot a people away from God, and I think that is plain to see. That is my greatest concern about it.
Check out a page on my site titled "Resources on Calvinism".
Amen. Calvinism is an attack on the character of God. It turns God into a monster.I can understand why many people are turned off of christianity because of calvinism. It's a disease within the body of christ.
## I'm not a Calvinist, but - Calvinism does a wonderful job of insisting on the free grace of God; which is part of God's character throughout the Bible.
The God of Calvinism is not a monster - if people would realise that God does not act in the same way as man, this would be clearer. God is not the first agent in a long series, moving them when He moves - as in a line of cards leaning on one another. God is "outside" all series, & all creation; our action is a manifestation of His
God is not talking about all.He is talking to the elect He is not willing that any of His elect should perish but come to repentance.He is patient with YOU the elect.He is writing to the elect.He did not say I'm patient witheveryone.
polopowers1, if that were the case then it would have plainly stated that "he is not willing that the elect should parish".
The word "any" would not even have to be added. The gospel is simple enough for a child to understand, so please don't make things so complicated.
There are a LOT of veres were the meaning of "any" and "all" have to be changed in order to fit Calvinism - not just this one. That should give anyone a clue that there is something seriously wrong with this theology.
@Jesse859 He is patient with you!Who is the you? He is not writting to the world! Okay, How about the Lord is not slack concerning His promises. God is not reminding the unsaved of His promises, Is He?.I'm sure the ungodly can't wait for the Lord's return And".Anyone" is there for those not obedient in need of repentance.I read the verse exactly how it is written. Promises are to God's people.He is patient with you! His people! Anyone is God's people who can die in a lack of repentance.
"To any Biblical Christian, [universalism] is not even remotely acceptable."
It's astonishing to me that even though Calvinism has more in common with universalism than with Arminianism, Calvinists treat Arminians as unenlightened brethren but consider the Biblical doctrine that all in heaven and earth will eventually be restored to be damnable heresy.
Calvinism's weakness is its pitiful ignorance of pre-Reformation theological history, with the solitary exception of Augustine.
You have proved clearly that God does want to save and will save everyone and yet insist its a heresy to believe this - even after proving it - what kind of blindness(?) - both the scriptures you read are true God isn't willing that any should perish and he does what he pleases - why shouldn't he save us all 1 Tim 4 v 10 insists that he IS the saviour of all & 1 Tim 2 v 3 & 4 ...
Who wills that all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth.
It's amazing to watch such a nice, clean-cut man take time and effort to argue for that which makes him passionate-- but what makes him passionate to defend is not that God loves all men and wants all men to be saved, but rather that God clearly Pleases to not save certain people!
How stunning for a believer to prefer to dismiss or reinterpret the MANY "whole world" and "every man" verses about God's love & desire to save, and defend the FEW "God wills many to perish" type verses.
THe Calvinist must interpret this verse to say that "God is not slow concerning His promises... but He is patient with you... wanting from eternity past not that you might come to repentence, but that from eternity past migh be set aside as a vessel for dishonor.
2Peter3:9 I'm surprised is even considered canonical to the Calvinist.
first of all this is not a proof text about election.. This verse is helping explaining the reason why God (Jesus) is taking a long time to come.. Peter gives a quick answer which is " he is patienent, not wanting anyone to perish, but come into repentance." ... keep in mind that we should not even dare to take into consideration that God failed to save all. Since we all know that the road is narrow.. John 6 talks about this as well..
This sovereignly includes allowing people to repent and come to faith.
That is, God sovereignly decided that one of the things that He Pleases to do from eternity past is to want all men to come to repentence, but allow some to not come to repentence. That's a big difference from saying that God is Pleased to have men not repent, which is what Calvinists must believe-- and that He's pleased that the vast majority of men don't repent...
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times, the things that are not yet DONE, saying, My COUNSEL shall stand and I will do all my pleasure.
You did it again. You CHANGED the WORDS of God. STOP claiming what you have is God's word. It's not.
The Lord is not SLACK is concerning his promise, as some men would count slackness; but is longsuffering to US-WARD, not willing that any should parish, but that all should come to repentence.
Your just like everyone else. Stop rying to change God's Word. You left very relevant words out (like US-Ward and longsuffereing). Why? Don't like the words God uses?
I think it's important for people to recognize that Mark Kielar is NOT speaking about Evangelism. Rather, he is speaking about Soteriology (the study of salvation). Some people think that Calvinism takes away from evangelism. I has been my experience, however, that the proper view of soteriology actually helps in evangelistic endeavors to unbelievers as well as believers. Many of the comments below, refuting Calvinism, mistakenly make the two synonymous. They are different issues :)
God is not schizophrenic, but some of the folks who claimed to have conversations with him might have been. Before the advent of psychiatric medicine, who diagnosed the schizophrenic, and who is to say that their "encounters" were not accepted as gospel?
just out of curiosity, do calvinists simply jettison the idea of god being just ("just" being defined in the usual manner)? Surely anybody can see that arbitrarily condemning some people to eternal torture regardless of their beliefs or actions is unjust. Is the typical calvinist response that god's justice is different from human justice? or that god is so powerful that he can do whatever he feels like (a "might makes right" kind of thing)? or what?
When Jesus said that Sodom and Gomorrah would rise in judgment against this generation...they would have repented in ashes...etc. Was He saying that God "could" have done something to save them and did not? Whose idea was it not to save the Sodomites? How just is a God who does not offer equal opportunity? I don't think I can answer your question, but perhaps I have given you a launching point to start your honest inquiry by yourself. You must be comfortable in your beliefs.
Please every 1, dont B fooled in2 beleving Jesus wants sum people 2 burn N hell. PLEASE read Ezk33:11; Ezk18:23-32; Luk13:34; 1 Tim2:3,4; Mat 23:34-38; John3:16; Beleving this guys interpretation makes th bible contradictory. Jesus cried out "How often I wanted 2 gather ur children 2gether,just as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and YOU would not have it." God desires ALL men 2B saved. THE BIBLE declares it is Jesus' personal desire 4all men 2b saved, contrary 2this guy
I think it is important to remember that Calvinist soteriology does not change the method God uses to call His people. Calvinism does not diminish evangelism, it strengthens it. Ez.33,18; Deut.30:18-20,31:1--are all about a prophet of God communicating to the people of God 'calling' to them by the preaching of the Gospel. What Mr.Kielar is emphasizing is Soteriology, not evangelistic technique. It seems you may be confusing these two issues. 1=the Gospel calling. 2=the study of Salvation.
The bible was sellectively put together by men and words meanings changed. The word repentance in the original greek was metanoeo meaning change of mind. As in metamorphosis it refers to a fundamental change. So what repentance or metanoeo was supposed to convey was that we need to raise our level of consciousness. Stop listening to the media and traditional ideology, it is all deception. Apocalypse means to reveal a hidden truth, so stop and let it be revealed.
Is it possible that Arminianism and Calvinism are 100% compatible on their core concepts?: that everyone who is saved chooses God from their free will but this free will choice was enabled by God? To clarify: God being unconstrained by time knew everything that would ever happen before the creation of the world, chose a world to come into existence in which specific people would be saved in their free will, and these people can be said to receive irresistible grace by God's initial choice.
" that everyone who is saved chooses God from their free will but this free will choice was enabled by God?"
You see, this strikes right to the core of the issue. Now all we have to do, is define what we mean by "free will." And to do this with a "Biblical" understanding, I think it is critical that we understand what the Bible says about our fallen condition. To think that we contribute something, is to make us the "Alpha" and God the "Omega." You know the one that closes the deal. :p
Please every 1, dont B fooled in2 beleving Jesus wants sum people 2 burn N hell. PLEASE read Ezk33:11; Ezk18:23-32; Luk13:34; 1 Tim2:3,4; Mat 23:34-38; John3:16; Beleving this guys interpretation makes th bible contradictory. Jesus cried out "How often I wanted 2 gather ur children 2gether,just as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and YOU would not have it." God desires ALL men 2B saved. THE BIBLE declares it is Jesus' personal desire 4all men 2b saved, contrary 2this guy
I see you believe that the gift of salvation is undeserved.. as i also... Heres the problem i find though... If salvation has absolutely nothing to do with us and requires nothing on our part.. absolutely undeserved... why is hell then deserved for sinners.. when they obviously made no choice to stay in sin.. they just weren't chosen by God to come out of it.. If there is compulsatory heaven.. then there is compulsatory hell... can God call himself loving and do such a thing?
rizzumz, thank you for pointing out Calvinisms unfortunate, yet intellectually HONEST conclusion, that Jesus CREATED MOST PEOPLE WITH NO CHOICE BUT 2BURN IN HELL FOR A QUADRILLION BILLION MILLENNIA! the answer (maybe) Jesus gives every man a measure of faith. Rom12:3 Jesus sovereignly allows all men the choice to accept Him through faith, Deut30:18-20 Josh24:14-16 Is56:4-5 while simultaneously allowing all men to resist Him.
Gods justice. A a living man/women, God gives us a change to come to Him when ALIVE. After death, it's too late. Hell is more than just fire. No God. No light. NO love. IF we choose God now - we will be with him. If we say Nope - GOd will say Nope to us. This is why preachers preach the Word so much. We only have this life to reach the lost.
@Lion3Lamb Have you noticed Calvinist rarely if ever say this, but Arminians often do? I think it's b/c Arminians will sometimes admit Scripture teaches Calvinism, but they are resistant to accept it. Calvinists have already submitted to what Scripture says and are no longer holding to the "free will" tradition of men. It's impossible for both Arminianism and Calvinism to be 100% compatible. The TULIP is the area of EXPLICIT contradiction. The views are not compatible - at least 1 is wrong
@wufpackjack You accidentally posted your comment two times.
In any case, it's kind of weird that you're responding to a comment that I made 2 years ago. Since then, my views have changed. Thus, not only am I having trouble understanding what you said because you're not articulating your point well (perhaps the consequence of being overly terse), but your comment also seems nonsensical due to a disconnect between your interpretation of a few sentences I typed in the past and who I am today.
@Lion3Lamb Hello, I was just trying to point out the 2 views aren't compatible - at least 1 is wrong. The TULIP is the area in which they explicitly disagree. Blessings in Messiah
@Lion3Lamb Have you noticed Calvinist rarely if ever say this, but Arminians often do? I think it's b/c Arminians will sometimes admit Scripture teaches Calvinism, but they are resistant to accept it. Calvinists have already submitted to what Scripture says and are no longer holding to the "free will" tradition of men. It's impossible for both Arminianism and Calvinism to be 100% compatible. The TULIP is the area of EXPLICIT contradiction. The views are not compatible - at least 1 is wrong
Dear friend please do not tell me you are questioning my salvation because I am not a hyper calvinist... If you are then there is no need to continue. I am neither Calvinist nor am I Fully armenian. I might be a 1 point Calvinist. but I have been studying and I do not see that your explanation of the scriptures if infallible. I too have the Holy Spirit and I have not come to the same conclusion. Nor can the Armenian explanation of some of its points be held up. Ill just trust JESUS
"Dear friend please do not tell me you are questioning my salvation"
I see. So you don't understand what justification and sanctification mean? Justification is "being saved". Sanctification is conforming to the truth. That's pretty basic stuff.
"Ill just trust JESUS"
Who is Jesus? Can someone who believes in him lose their salvation? Is one saved by making a free will decision apart from God or by God's predestination? You can "just trust" Jesus, but you have to tell who He is.
Also, do NOT confuse "Once Saved, Always Saved"(or Eternal Security) with the last point of calvinism(perseverence of the saints). It is PRESERVATION of the saints not perseverence. sometimes the saints don't persevere but they(their salvation) is always preserved 1 Corinthians: 29- 32 , John 10 among MANY others!
ALL calvinism is the pure worship of satan, but then again so is arminianism!
Yes, "lose your salvation" is the pure worship of satan. Both calvinism and arminianism("lose your salvation") are doctrines created/thought of/ made up by satan himself.
ALL calvinism is the pure worship of satan, but then again so is arminianism!
Yes, "lose your salvation" is the pure worship of satan. Both calvinism and arminianism("lose your salvation") are doctrines created/thought of/ made up by satan himself.
@TexazEric ALL calvinism is the pure worship of satan, but then again so is arminianism!
Yes, "lose your salvation" is the pure worship of satan. Both calvinism and arminianism("lose your salvation") are doctrines created/thought of/ made up by satan himself.
ALL calvinism is the pure worship of satan, but then again so is arminianism!
Yes, "lose your salvation" is the pure worship of satan. Both calvinism and arminianism("lose your salvation") are doctrines created/thought of/ made up by satan himself.
@TexazEric there is no such thing as a hyper calvinist you are eithr a calvinist or your not the term comes from people who just want the god they like not the true GOD all points of calvin eithr stand together or not at all don't be decieved the arminian way only producess pride I know I used to think it was right but now I know different GOD taughtme that through many years of suffering
@patriotsfan1379 I am now learning about this and i have suffered alot myself and yes i think your right about how God disiplines us and as isaid i am learning on this.
I am not a strong holder of either position, totally but I do lean a bit Armenian. And I think that the call is to all "whosoever" calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. What I considered Harsh is the fact that I did not take a hard stance and you accused. Anyway. So you are saying that IF I do not believe in Predestination in the manner you say then I cannot continue in sanctification? This is where I have problems with Calvinism. Im out of room but have a lot to say.
"So you are saying that IF I do not believe in Predestination... then I cannot continue in sanctification?"
Both of our positions can't be right logically. Either one is right and the other is wrong, or they are both wrong. They can't be both right, though. I know that your position is logically inconsistent from experience, and I believe that mine is true to Scripture. Since the Holy Spirit is the one that sanctifies and since He leads us into all truth, it's a matter of sanctification.
I'm sorry but I don't see how this argument says God is schizo. It seems fully compatible with the idea of God giving man Free Will. And I dont think I understood of how to properly interpret the words" The Lord.... is not wiling that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance" I believe in God's sovreignty but to me HE does not lose any of His sovereignty by giving man free will. This subject is so confusing.
Who is the "you" in 2 Peter 3:9? ("patient towards you...") Either two things you can do at this point. 1) Explain who the "you" is. or 2) Ignore Scripture yet still say you hold to the Bible as your authority (in other words, lie).
Also, please provide one indicative verse in the Bible that says man has a free-will. (I assert that you can't because it doesn't exist.)
Wow a little harsh arent you? I don't deny the sovreignty of God. I just have issues with the tons of passages that indicate that all humanity is given this call to repentence. I dont think either side of this argument can conclusively prove their case. My salvation is not dependent on how I interpret these versus, Only that I know that Jesus died for my sins and rose again. The Holy Spirit now dwells in me and I am saved by the grace of God. I just think this is confusing.
A little harsh? Good grief. Stating statements of fact isn't harsh. It's just telling the truth. Either one of those two things could happen. I see you chose option 2). Perhaps you thought it was harsh because, after you conceded that you would hold to option 2), you knew that you had to come after my person in claiming that I'm a little harsh so it wouldn't reflect so badly on yourself. That's typical for you people, and I'm used to it.
Lane, "And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified."- So if one is justified, wouldn't it follow that one is also glorified? (including sanctification)- So even though TexazEric might not understand that man's total depravity prevents man to answer the call to repentence, can you totally rule out that the Holy Spirit will reveal this to him later? Couldn't he still be justified cuz of his faith in Jesus?
@LaneCh your personal interpretation of the bible based on many churches following the doctrine of a flawed man with many questionable acts and judgements is not FACT it is just your opinion. and yes the whole church can be wrong.. see the 12th to 14th centurys.
Why don't you get out from in front of your computer and engage real, live people. And, realize that, despite minor disagreements, we're your brothers and sisters.
It seems as though Lane is angry, petty little man who can't have a discussion without trying to scoff or belittle. You are obviously insecure with beliefs. Calvinists treat their doctrine on the same level as the Deity of Christ or the doctrine of the Trinity; it's not. Have a discussion, treat people with respect, you'll have more success and friends.
So in other words, you either 1) have no arguments to present or 2) believe that they're too weak to stand up to scrutiny so you won't present them. Either way, ad hominems instead of arguments certainly don't help your position.
Typical Arminian caught up in his own righteousness. :)
I don't why you feel he need to unnecessarily attack your fellow believers. You are obviously very insecure. I forgive you. I accept the plain reading of the text. The burden of proof is on you and the guy in the video and his feeble attempt to reinterpret the text.
How am I insecure? Unless you haven't realized (and I'm certainly not discounting the possibility that this is the case), I'm the one who can actually back up what they profess. It's sad. You claim that you can answer the arguments, but it seems that you're only into ad hominems. I have better things to spend my time on than people who blasphemously use the reason of "fellow believer" to justify them using excuses. Repent from using Christianity in this self-serving way.
I have no argument to refute. I have the plain reading of the text. I'm not trying to take an obscure OT passage and change the meaning of the NT passage...nice try though.
I'm not an Arminian...I am most definitely not a Calvinist. Jesus died for all who would receive Him. For whoever calls upon the Lord shall be saved. Don't make the Gospel harder than it has to be.
First, not an Arminian. Second, I'm not taking anything out of context. Calvinists need to spend less time in Romans 9 and more in 1 Cor. 13. Theology is not the end, love is. If I have not love...To believe that Godcreates people to throw them into Hell is ridiculous. As Geisler says, Limited Atonement is "divine rape."
You're an Arminian just like Geisler. Also, where is the argument you present? I could care less about your baseless assertions. Actually give me something to work with or be happy approving yourself for the rest of your life without any scrutiny as to why.
As you can see, I did. What I don't do, however, is babysit around just waiting for you to make one so I can approve it. When it said, "pending approval", that should have been your first clue.
The Gospel letters of the NT were written at that time (By The Saved To The Saved) these were the first Apostles, CHOSEN by our Lord to preach The Gospel to the people. My suggestion is : Could these men (Be The Elect) refered to throughout scripture. If that were so, then there could be no Arm'/Calv' conflict, as both possitions would be scriptualy in agreement. These Arm'/Calv' disputes bother me. I am trying to preach peace, so please stop the fighting, and just Love one another.
These disputes come from interpreting the Bible. What you are preaching is not peace; what you are preaching is the acceptance of your position and ignorance regarding anything that doesn't agree with it. It's not honest to deal with the Scripture in regard of what bothers you or not. It would be dishonoring to God to say, "Please accept Calvinism because all other views bother me." and not to make the view available to scrutiny. I pray that you reevaluate your position.
What part of 'suggestion' did you fail to understand. I'm not on anyones side in this time wasting futile argument,perhaps the dark glass you see through is darker than most, there's no love in you that I have noticed.
you appear to be selfrightious and full of bigotted pride to me. Don't bother responding.
No, I will respond because I think that your comment personifies what is wrong with those who take the "doctrine divides" stance. The truth is that you presented doctrine cordially at first, but when I ask that you perhaps reexamine where you stand, I'm a "selfrightious" person "full of bigotted pride". That's exactly the gross ignorance that I'm talking about when I refer to what you are appealing to. Again, I pray that you reconsider your position.
Typical seeker-sensitive-modern-christian. "there's no love in you" how many times have i heard that before? haha, If calvinists didn't love, we wouldn't bother teaching truth.
The implication is that you in fact are incorrect and jesus isn't ever gonna be impressed by your lack of compassion on people who openly claim christ as saviour and he will neverbe impressed that you are oh so smart instead ... thats not a rational argument ..one I feel the lord won't side with you on ...
my comment ment ... if jesus answered your video with a comment and spoke doctorinally about what was actually the truth ... you would probably find fault with his statements ... the idea... they are for me ...if they are not against me ...are applicable ...
are you seriously saying you don't care ... if so then say it a lil more clearly for your sake and maybe others who will see it and realize that wasting their time commenting is a worthless exersise
I have feelings and God gave them to me ..I've heard the arguement before about not trusting in your feelings and I agree ...and also think it's overworked and not fully thought out ..when the spirit of the lord is moving the human body feels it ....given that as a fact lets now go on and judge the spirit . my sheep know my voice and another he will not follow ... I missed where you were trying to lead me into the feeling discussion ..good for you you've been taught not to trust your feelings
LaneCh - Just because I quote someone does not mean I fully imbibe their theology. Last time I looked at Ravenhill didn't have a theological system named after him. Calvinist quote only Calvinist - that's my point here. Let' try some originality!
Well, from what Godcorpusa said, he wasn't affirming everything the persons he mentioned believe, either. He was merely giving you sources of other people who believe something in an attempt to substantiate what he was claiming. I merely showed that you did the same with Ravenhill then proceeded to try and dismiss Godcorpusa for doing the same thing. I was just making you aware of your inconsistency and double standards just so there is no question in your mind that you have them.
And what about GOD CHOSE the weak, GOD CHOSE the things that are nought. GOD CHOSE the things the things that are base. Not many mighty or noble are called. If GOD doesn't CHOSE the few mighty or noble who are called then who does? Are some so much smarter than others that they can figure it out but others can't? One preacher said GOD CHOSE Jacob over Easu before they were born, because Jacob had some spiritual sensitivity in himself. On the contrary, if GOD CHOSE Jacob HE could CHOSE ANYONE.
What a load of bunk! Isa 46:10 is your defense! How about using this verse within its context. This verse has nothing to do with predestination! It's about God addressing rebellion. Read verse 12 and you'll see that! It seems strange for God to be reminding the Jews of this when he predestined them to rebel to being with! Odd? Again no theology is valid if it violates the known demonstrated character of God - God is not arbitrary, nor is he a respecter of persons something election does do!
First, Isa 46:10 in context supports the video fully. Secondly to make assertions like "God is not arbitrary, nor is he a respecter of persons something election does do!" require substantiated evidence and not merely your pejorative assertions. ...
Romans 9 clearly says that God elected because of his purpose, not arbitrarily and God would be a respecter of persons if he chose based on works, not unconditionally. Are we supposed to follow you solely because you say so? I'm not going to follow some man. :)
LOL! Is it not Calvin then your following? You live by Calvin and more than likely you will die by Calvin - as for me I will choose to follow the bible in full context and not pick verses out of context to support my position as you seem to do in all of your videos. As Leonard Ravenhill stated: "By overstating the sovereignty of God and blundering on in an atmosphere of stagnant dispensationalism, you safeguard your spiritual bankruptcy, all the while Hell fills."
We don't follow Calvin, we follow the Scriptures and present valid arguments for our positions. Arminians, on the other hand, only give pejorative assertions with no substantiation as your comments certainly hold true. The funny thing about Arminians is that they don't even affirm they side with Arminius' interpretation. Do you affirm man's free-will in salvation?
The Arminians believe in God's Love and desire to save all(1Timothy 2:3-4;2Peter 3:9;John 3:16).The Calvinist believe in the Sovereingty of God in salvation(Isaiah 46:10; Isaiah 55:10-11;Ephesians 1:11). Isn't the combination of their theologies Biblical Universalism?
741rjohnson 2 weeks ago
Well buddy you can try to deny it all you want but using 2 Pet 3:9 AND Isa 46:10 together you just did prove Universalism. Perhaps the scriptures weren't intended to be taken quite so literally and cross referenced together in such an arbitrary manner.
gsschoenfeld 3 weeks ago
Comment removed
saintoccasionally 1 week ago
@gsschoenfeld Watch the one in which he goes over the proper interpretation of 2Peter 3:9 and it will make more sense.
saintoccasionally 1 week ago
I enjoyed how you used painting and art related themes in yor presentation. Consider creation, We can only see part of the great paintingt that creation is. We have no idea, really, of the "big picture". We can guess, theorize, philosophize all we want..but really we're only guessing. However, as believing Christians, we have to follow what our Lord said. He talked more about gehenna, exorcized demons etc. to show us his mission is the destruction of evil. I want to see the finished painting.
bheadh 5 months ago
Peter is only writting concerning the elect, he never writes to the unsaved who have not the Spirit about His will. Unless in particular to save them., God does not refer to the non elect in teaching.God is not un willing that any elect go without repentance ( which only the elect can do).Perish here is physical not eternal(context) Peter is only writting to the elect there is no extension of pleading with the unsaved.
polopowers1 7 months ago
Well he brought up what could be seen as a big problem, dug himself a nice hole and than did not clear things up or get himself out of his hole.
faithandpractice 10 months ago
Love this, so sound a coherent.. just flawless... only emotional blindness can prevent people from seeing the obvious truth portrayed here
gvassi17 10 months ago
Let's say I make a robot and program it to be evil and kill. I then send it off on its mission. Who is then guilty for the crimes it commits. The robot which had no choice or free will or the programer who made it that way? James 1:13" let no man say when he is tempted , I am tempted of God for God cannot be tempted with evil neither tempteth he any man." According to James, we do have a choice as humans to choose right or wrong.
horseman528 11 months ago
@horseman528
No, James is saying that GOD doesn't tempt. That does not mean you inject anything you want into the statement. James is not referencing "free-will" at all. He is responding to a fatalistic mentality that many had at the time. However, we do no that Satan temps, so, how does that fit into your idea of choice? The Reformed position believes man has the ability to choose, however, they believe that prior to being regenerated by the spirit, men will always choose what is...
MrNickKane 11 months ago
@horseman528 ...contrary to God and His person. The robot argument is not only invalid, it is one based in ignorance. The dialogue isn't about "choices" it's about God's role in your Salvation. Is it subjective? Relative? Random? Based on Chance? That is the position of the "free-will" advocate. The other position is that all good things come from above. Faith is good, repentance is good, salvation is good and the ability to choose what is good comes directly from God. It's one or the other.
MrNickKane 11 months ago
@horseman528 why do freewillers always take this verse out of context? why did you not keep reading ?it says sin its already in us GOD does not have to tempt people to do what they already want to do because sin drives them to do it i.e. no freewill we are slaves to sin not unwillingly but willingly
patriotsfan1379 3 months ago
@patriotsfan1379 If you say that man willingly chooses to sin then that means that man also has the ability to choose to do right. In other words, you cannot say that God only gives us a choice to commit sin but not right. Otherwise it would not be a choice. In other words, how can you call choosing to sin a choice if thats the only option you have? A choice implys two or more possibe selections. Only one option is a one way street where there is no choice. Calvinism is illogical and false.
horseman528 3 months ago
@horseman528 did i say that? the bible teaches that! now i know that people who don't understand the meaning of words want to play with them ; men willingly choose to sin because it is their nature to sin we are slaves of sin ephesians 2 ;1'6 it is not calvinisim you are against you hate the bible you only like what makes you feel good but if it says you are a sinner or wicked you hate that you say its calvinisim but its not you hate the bibles accusations against mankind you are a humanist
patriotsfan1379 3 months ago
@patriotsfan1379 Evidently, you don't understand what I'm saying. Bad people can do good things and good people can do bad things. Both are condemned if they do not take Christ as their savior because all have sinned. Rom. 3:23 Where I part with calvinism is when they teach that God picks who will be saved and by exclusion who will be lost and man has no ability to choose one way or the other. Matt. 23:37 clearly shows that men do have a choice.
horseman528 3 months ago
@horseman528 no mat;23;37 just furthers the point of mans depravity!! GOD had sent prophets and had done many miracles yet man was still obstinate in unbelief it is the condition of all humans !!we don't believe GOD because we can't !!it is only when GOD turns our heart of stone and gives us a new 1 than we can believe!! it is only pride to think thatyou can come to Christ whenever you want JESUS said "" no one can come to me unless the Father draws him""
patriotsfan1379 3 months ago
@patriotsfan1379 One of the tenets of calvinism is irresistable grace that says that once God calls you that you can't resist coming to God. The point of Matt. 23:37 and Luke 13:34 is that God through Christ desired for these people to be saved but because of their stubborness and rebellion, they refused. In other words, they had a freewill to chose or why would God send prophets to them in the first place? Or why even preach the gospel if God does all the work? We could lay back and just wait.
horseman528 3 months ago
@horseman528 no!!! not at all!!! GOD sends prophets to people because in the midst of them there are those whom HE has elected!! JESUS said"" he who has ears to hear let him hear"" HE also sends them so that people won't be able to say i never heard!! and HE also sends them to prclaim judgement like when HE said be ever hearing but not understanding !! JESUS also said HE would speak in parables because the kingdom had been given to some!!we preach cause GOD has commanded to do so faith=works
patriotsfan1379 3 months ago
@patriotsfan1379 You just proved my point. And who does he elect? Rom. 8:29 He predestinates those whom he foreknew would obey the gospel. Heb. 5:9 "And being mad perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto ALL THEM THAT OBEY HIM." God in His infinite knowledge knows ahead of time who will obey and who will not and it is those who obey He predestinates or calls. He hardens those who he knows ahead of time will not obey. Rom. 1:26 There is freewill but God knows what you will choose
horseman528 3 months ago
@horseman528 i guess you don't know the meaning of predestined? and when the bible talks about knowing someone it is intimately knowing like a husband and a wife know each other better than friends would know them thats why to many HE will say depart from me I never knew you "GOD said to Israel only you have I known out of all the nations""question do you obey all on your own ? i only obey cause it is GOD who will in me and puts desires in me out of HIS good pleasure
patriotsfan1379 3 months ago
@horseman528 not only that but only those who have been regenerated and given the gift of faith are those who truly obey GOD none others the bible makes it clear only those who are led of the SPIRIT are the sons of GOD
patriotsfan1379 3 months ago
@horseman528 and if HE hardens people how can you say we have freewill ? isn't freewill being able to eithr choose this or that? how can HE harden someone if the person does not want to be hardened?
patriotsfan1379 3 months ago
@horseman528 GOD has also decreed not only the end but also the means by which men should be saved!!" faith comes by hearing and hearing the word of GOD";""GOD has decided to save men by the foolishness of preaching"" plus the MASTER of the universe commands that we should preach it is not a sugestion!! no freewill
patriotsfan1379 3 months ago
True, God doesn't want us to perish. HOWEVER, i think you are missing the point, somewhat. (no offence intended). God gives us FREE WILL. So in creating an intelligent creature with free will- and the ability to find our way back to him, he has made a true being of choice. Thats the point, he doesnt want us to perish, but WE need to want that too.
kaderoder 11 months ago
THIS IS HERASY
gingernutpreacher 1 year ago
... hey hey hey ... how come all this so easily runs off your tongue ... where is your holiness ... ? ... how many have you seen saved ... ?
3NUNS 1 year ago
Awesome. One cannot refute this logic (and remain logical).
Thanks Lane!
mark12v24 1 year ago
I do NOT believe in "lose your salvation"(heresy and blasphemy) but calvinism = devil worship.
barrypatrickius 1 year ago
And scripture IS contradictory to itself! A book full of contradiction and errors, as Bart Ehrman puts it. Faith (pretending) that the bible is the word of God accomplishes nothing but more confusion and theological arguments. Where did all those denominations come from? From the thousands of ways there are to interpret the bible.
k0smon 1 year ago
Carlton Pearson found the answer to this problem in his gospel of inclusion. It gets rid of all the theological arguments for or against. He is now a 'new thought' minister.
k0smon 1 year ago
@k0smon ..But is he following the Inspired Word of God the Bible? The Ecumenical Movement is all-inclusive which we r warned against. It waters down the truth of Scripture 2 the point that it stops believing God's Word + makes it's own rules up. God wishes ALL 2 b saved. But it's ALWAYS going 2 b on God's terms, NOT the other way round! JOHN 3:1621...
The3in1trinity 11 months ago
The consequence of becoming a Universalist doesn't negate the interpretation of the scripture.
umbraemilitos 1 year ago
Great video. That verse is a defence against those disbelieving Christ is God and that he will return as the answer of Peter was that the reason Christ has not come back is for thepurpose ofseeing more peoplesaved. Context rules!
daveme7 1 year ago
He never did give the explanation and he is using a "bible version" that not even he believes is the infallible words of God.
brandplucked.webs.com/2pet39notwillingperis.htm
Will K
Brandplucked 1 year ago
this guys mind is freakin crazy
KOhannon96 1 year ago
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It only makes God schizophrenic from the perspective of the Calvinistic distortion. I also noticed that he never addressed what the passage WAS saying. I am willing to discuss this. call me through the Apologetic Research Center; 614-388-8838
KngR1chard 1 year ago
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It only makes God schizophrenic from the perspective of the Calvinistic distortion. I also noticed that he never addressed what the passage WAS saying. I am willing to discuss this. call me through the Apologetic Research Center. Use a search engine.
KngR1chard 1 year ago
It only makes God schizophrenic from the perspective of the Calvinistic distortion. I also noticed that he never addressed what the passage WAS saying. I am willing to discuss this. call me through the Apologetic Research Center. Google it.
KngR1chard 1 year ago
It only makes God schizophrenic from the perspective of the Calvinistic distortion. I also noticed that he never addressed what the passage WAS saying. I am willing to discuss this. call me at the Research Center at 614-388-8838
KngR1chard 1 year ago
Speaking of heresy :- What about 2Peter 3:10-13 Should we be waiting for a New Earth according to His promise and not heaven as is the general Christian doctrine.
yarrw 1 year ago
@yarrw You are corrent the destination of the believer is a new heaven and a new earth. We will live on a new earth with nations, cities, activities and perfect purity and love. with God in perfect fellowship and worship.
TheHellbinder 1 year ago
@TheHellbinder A new paradise because Adam corrupted this one?
yarrw 1 year ago
@yarrw What is found in both 1st and 2nd Peter is many references to what has already been said by the prophets in the Old Testament. Peter, as Paul revealed, was sent primarily to the circumcision, who in being aware of the contents of the Old Testament would have known of those passages being referenced. Isaiah 13:13 which refers to the Lord shaking both the heavens and the earth was what he was pointing to; as well as to Malachi 4:1.
HermitintheRain 1 year ago
@yarrw Romans 8:19-22 reveals that the whole of creation awaits being delivered from the corruption it has been made to be subject to. When the sons of God are finally all manifested, it will be then shaking of the heavens and the earth will occur. The whole of creation will be redeemed to inherit a state where only righteousness dwells-without any reference to sin.
HermitintheRain 1 year ago
This is another verse where the KJV neglected to replace perish with hell.
yarrw 1 year ago
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ALL calvinism is the pure worship of satan, but then again so is arminianism!
Yes, "lose your salvation" is the pure worship of satan. Both calvinism and arminianism("lose your salvation") are doctrines created/thought of/ made up by satan himself.
barrypatrickius 1 year ago
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ALL calvinism is the pure worship of satan, but then again so is arminianism!
Yes, "lose your salvation" is the pure worship of satan. Both calvinism and arminianism("lose your salvation") are doctrines created/thought of/ made up by satan himself.
barrypatrickius 1 year ago
This is another verse where the KJV neglected to replace perish with hell.
yarrw 1 year ago
What most thinking people realize is that each denomination, gives
a meaning to the word (all)in this verse as well as others in the bible.
Even when you put it in context, your context may be only one
context. When the scripture says that "all have 'sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.", The word(all) here cannot mean
"everyone." Otherwise it would mean even Jesus Christ.That
is an absurdity! It does not even mean everyone else,other
than Christ. ie."the virgin Mary, John the baptist.
jossalv1 1 year ago
@jossalv1 It clearly DOESN'T mean Jesus. It's clearly talking about Created human beings. Is the Creator a sinner? GOD B TRUE + ALL MEN LIARS!!! JOHN 1 shows who the Creator is. Jesus is God in the flesh, the Saviour. Jesus couldn't b a Saviour if He had sinned. Jesus was tempted like all mankind but never gave in 2 temptation.
The3in1trinity 11 months ago
I am one jew who finds this synopsis totally confusing. It seems you expositors of your greek NT writings are masters of confusion. You don't get this kind of trickery and confusion from the Holy Torah/Tanakh. Your founders created a book full of mysteries and contradictions leaving the lay person in disgust.. Ancient greek is a terrible language given to lots of pagan interjections . You don't get that with Hebrew.
LosAngeleno1959 1 year ago
@LosAngeleno1959, Yes the Torah and Tanakh can! It can have just as much confusion depending on your intellect concerning the passages. Also I do believe the Tanakh but their are scribe errors unlike the NT. Look at the book of Chronicles for example it's full of scribe errors that contradict 1 Kings and the 2 books of Samuel. Also most anit-religious types use the Tanakh and Torah by cherry-pickeg verses to show how God is angry and evil and never in the NT.
QuantumUni 1 year ago
@QuantumUni Really?, are you reading these passages from Chronicles in te Hebrew and from a Jewush text excluding the Septuagint? Just curious because there is no contradiction in the Hebrew. The confusion comes in when the Goyim tamper with the Holy tongue and translate the text into their gentile languages. But if you reading them in hebrew,please point that out to me and i'll point these so called errors to some Orthodox Chassidim.
LosAngeleno1959 1 year ago
The subject of 2 Pet 3 is actually a "New Earth" rather than "Heaven".
yarrw 1 year ago
Why do you assume that this epistle to Peter is canonical? How do you tell if a work was divinely inspired or not?
MrGodelFan 1 year ago
Some basic things to consider:
Is God absolutely sovereign?
Can anything frustrate the purpose of God?
If yes to all the above:
If God purposed to see all come to repentance, then all must be saved, or there is a contradiction to the 2nd axiom.
There are souls that are in hell and going to hell.
Therefore the 'all' of 2 Peter 3:9 can only mean an all within a specific group in the Bible as the elect, God's peculiar people, the flock of the good Shepherd, etc.
HermitintheRain 1 year ago
The issues at large are what they have been since the beginning: the nature of God, the character of God. The fact that God is God, sovereign, righteous, holy, who does whatsoever he pleases offends even many sincere Christians. When God doesn't fit our idea of who we want him to be, or who we think he should be, then we raise our fists at God; we dispense with portions of Scripture, we take great pains to re-interpret whole passages to make it say what we want it to say.
HermitintheRain 1 year ago
When we, (yes we, I am a sinner too, whose heart has been enmity with God), humble ourselves before the Lord, and realize that his ways are not our ways, that his thoughts are not our thoughts, then the issue of God being absolutely sovereign will no longer be an offense, but actually a cause for praise and thanksgiving. Let God be God and do whatsoever he pleases-he will whether you let him or not anyway. Then you will know the joy and peace and hope of the Lord in spirit and truth.
HermitintheRain 1 year ago
When you live in the truth of God being God peace truly rises in the soul. When we see and know God's purpose is not being frustrated or hindered in anyway. Whether it be global catastrophes, national disasters, or family and even personal crisis in our lives; if we are trusting and believing in the God of all creation, we can rest in knowing that it is all according to his purpose of grace to the elect and wrath to those being fitted for destruction.
HermitintheRain 1 year ago
It becomes "self evident" that God's WILL in 2 Peter 3:9 can be understood with His Will in 1 Tim. 2:3-4 "This is good, and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires ALL people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." Romans 11:23, "For God has imprisoned ALL in DISOBEDIENCE, so that He may have MERCY ON ALL." "The conclusion is obvious" "to any biblical Christian","because the exact opposite of what this videos teaches, is taught everywhere in Scripture".
apollos6640 1 year ago
God ALSO doesn't "delight in the death of the wicked" Ez. 18:23-32, yet the Wicked still die, though "GOD does ALL that He pleases". While God does ALL that HE pleases, God cannot deny His holiness." God is LOVE, and so 2 Peter 3:9 makes perfect sense to a HOLY, ALL-LOVING God, and to His Free agents who can "Chose Life" (Deut. 30:19) but not to the Calvin God who acts NOT by Love, but by the "Good pleasure of His Will" and does "All that He pleases".
apollos6640 1 year ago
Peter is speaking about those who are in The Body already and not Satan's people. There is no such thing as once saved always saved. Those who God has drawn to His Son can and will lose their salvation "if" they do not continue with Him. We must "strive" to enter just like the Master said. Why "strive" if once saved always saved was true? There would be no reason to "strive". We must "strive" to enter through the narrow gate. Many believers will enter the broad way, which leads to destruction.
SpirituallyTuned 1 year ago
@SpirituallyTuned Salvation is entirely of the Lord, from beginning to end. If you find yourself striving, remaining steadfast, believing unto the end it is not to your credit that it occurs. Rather it is the mark of election of grace in you. It is the evidence of the gift of grace in you. Do you believe? Then praise the Lord for his gift of grace to believe. It is the Lord that shall perfect that which concerns all those that are his. He is the Author and Perfector of our faith. Amazing grace.
HermitintheRain 1 year ago
@HermitintheRain You know the early church believed and acted on belief that was EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE of what calvanists teach. many of you need to take a course on ealy church history from a good Bible school. None of the first or second century christian authors taught once saved always saved. they all believed that you had to PERSEVERE till you die or you were lost. they did not believe that God did that for you. Its prety eye opening to actually study some Church history.
TheHellbinder 1 year ago
@TheHellbinder Once saved always saved is also taught in Charismatic and some pentecostal churches. I think we need the teaching from the parable of the sower. Some are lost along the way.
yarrw 1 year ago
@SpirituallyTuned Why strive? When we know the love of God, we don't strive because we don't want to lose our salvation. We strive because we love him who first loved us. We don't strive for fear, but for love. Song of Solomon illustrates that experience of being sick with love when we cannot have enough of the Lord. How he makes us to pant after him. It is a love that satisfies, yet we cannot have enough.
HermitintheRain 1 year ago
Jacob Arminain's postion would be closer to Calvin's than Wesley's. Wesley refused to believe in predestination altogether. Whitefield rebuked Wesley after Wesley preached a sermon on Free Grace. DO YOUR HOMEWORK. You will find that most of what you thought you knew is all from a humanist system built on not the Bible but on secular philosophy.
NB3K 1 year ago
God's heart is that all would come to repentance. John Calvin wrote that. But he also wrote that only the Elect's eyes would only be open. Therefore the gospel call is to all, but only the elect wil be saved. I like to say that Jesus died for all. He died to justify some and condem others.
NB3K 1 year ago
John Calvin wrote in his commentaries on 1 and 2 Peter that when Peter introduced the so-called elect in 1 Peter he stated that the elect was refering to the Jews. In 2 Peter 3:9 Calvin stated: Not willing that any should perish. So wonderful is his love towards mankind, that he would have them all to be saved, and is of his own self prepared to bestow salvation on the lost
NB3K 1 year ago
Smartly worded video, it was worded in just the right way that you didn't get Lutherans in on the fight, lol. Indeed, Arminianism has no real ground for its doctrine of election. I believe that the Calvinist has stronger ground. The Bible is littered with evidence that God chooses us, not the other way around.
The solution to the verse above is that man is 100 percent responsible for his damnation. God is 100 percent responsible for man's salvation. Remember, god defies human reason.
Vikingsia20 1 year ago
Because God does not will any should perish does not mean he mandates that none should perish or that somehow means he mandates universialism. That is a leap of logic. I don't desire it either but like God i would never mandate because i would not want chatty cathy dolls in heaven that only love me because i coerced the.
bennettgd 1 year ago
Universalism of *some* kind is part of the Gospel - as is Election to salvation. The NT teaches both, not one or the other.
This should be easy for Calvinists to live with, because Calvinism is very good at accommodating paradoxes in its understanding of God and His ways. Well, the reality of both election and universalism in thise ways, is another paradox; not a contradiction or anything like that.
5355vbxjbj76rvn 1 year ago
A Great Video: Topic - God's Sovereignty
All Christians that believe or are taught that you can lose your salvation or that God is not Sovereignty in salvation should watch this video!
ParadiseP01 1 year ago
Calvinism is heresy. Christianity vs. calvinism.
cherubimX 1 year ago
No, 2 Peter 3:9 does not make God Schizophrenic. But Calvinism would make Him shizophenic if it were true. Is it any wonder why atheists view Christianity as such a joke?
I am not saying that atheists are excused for that (although they would have an excuse if God ordained them to think that way), but Calvinism is turning a lot a people away from God, and I think that is plain to see. That is my greatest concern about it.
Check out a page on my site titled "Resources on Calvinism".
Jesse859 2 years ago
Amen. Calvinism is an attack on the character of God. It turns God into a monster.I can understand why many people are turned off of christianity because of calvinism. It's a disease within the body of christ.
cherubimX 1 year ago
## I'm not a Calvinist, but - Calvinism does a wonderful job of insisting on the free grace of God; which is part of God's character throughout the Bible.
The God of Calvinism is not a monster - if people would realise that God does not act in the same way as man, this would be clearer. God is not the first agent in a long series, moving them when He moves - as in a line of cards leaning on one another. God is "outside" all series, & all creation; our action is a manifestation of His
5355vbxjbj76rvn 1 year ago
God is not talking about all.He is talking to the elect He is not willing that any of His elect should perish but come to repentance.He is patient with YOU the elect.He is writing to the elect.He did not say I'm patient witheveryone.
polopowers1 2 years ago
polopowers1, if that were the case then it would have plainly stated that "he is not willing that the elect should parish".
The word "any" would not even have to be added. The gospel is simple enough for a child to understand, so please don't make things so complicated.
There are a LOT of veres were the meaning of "any" and "all" have to be changed in order to fit Calvinism - not just this one. That should give anyone a clue that there is something seriously wrong with this theology.
Jesse859 2 years ago
@Jesse859 He is patient with you!Who is the you? He is not writting to the world! Okay, How about the Lord is not slack concerning His promises. God is not reminding the unsaved of His promises, Is He?.I'm sure the ungodly can't wait for the Lord's return And".Anyone" is there for those not obedient in need of repentance.I read the verse exactly how it is written. Promises are to God's people.He is patient with you! His people! Anyone is God's people who can die in a lack of repentance.
polopowers1 2 years ago
@Jesse859 I'm not a calvinist
polopowers1 2 years ago
"To any Biblical Christian, [universalism] is not even remotely acceptable."
It's astonishing to me that even though Calvinism has more in common with universalism than with Arminianism, Calvinists treat Arminians as unenlightened brethren but consider the Biblical doctrine that all in heaven and earth will eventually be restored to be damnable heresy.
Calvinism's weakness is its pitiful ignorance of pre-Reformation theological history, with the solitary exception of Augustine.
ElasticGiraffe 2 years ago
He did another video on this verse but i cant find it, can someone send me the link if they know it?
BennyMetal7 2 years ago
You have proved clearly that God does want to save and will save everyone and yet insist its a heresy to believe this - even after proving it - what kind of blindness(?) - both the scriptures you read are true God isn't willing that any should perish and he does what he pleases - why shouldn't he save us all 1 Tim 4 v 10 insists that he IS the saviour of all & 1 Tim 2 v 3 & 4 ...
Who wills that all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth.
A punishment for sin yes but forever No
HISATdotCOM 2 years ago
It's amazing to watch such a nice, clean-cut man take time and effort to argue for that which makes him passionate-- but what makes him passionate to defend is not that God loves all men and wants all men to be saved, but rather that God clearly Pleases to not save certain people!
How stunning for a believer to prefer to dismiss or reinterpret the MANY "whole world" and "every man" verses about God's love & desire to save, and defend the FEW "God wills many to perish" type verses.
sketchbook1 2 years ago
THe Calvinist must interpret this verse to say that "God is not slow concerning His promises... but He is patient with you... wanting from eternity past not that you might come to repentence, but that from eternity past migh be set aside as a vessel for dishonor.
2Peter3:9 I'm surprised is even considered canonical to the Calvinist.
sketchbook1 2 years ago
first of all this is not a proof text about election.. This verse is helping explaining the reason why God (Jesus) is taking a long time to come.. Peter gives a quick answer which is " he is patienent, not wanting anyone to perish, but come into repentance." ... keep in mind that we should not even dare to take into consideration that God failed to save all. Since we all know that the road is narrow.. John 6 talks about this as well..
johnpolanco18 2 years ago
God will indeed do all that He pleases.
This sovereignly includes allowing people to repent and come to faith.
That is, God sovereignly decided that one of the things that He Pleases to do from eternity past is to want all men to come to repentence, but allow some to not come to repentence. That's a big difference from saying that God is Pleased to have men not repent, which is what Calvinists must believe-- and that He's pleased that the vast majority of men don't repent...
sketchbook1 2 years ago
God is dead.
UltraSchizo 2 years ago
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times, the things that are not yet DONE, saying, My COUNSEL shall stand and I will do all my pleasure.
You did it again. You CHANGED the WORDS of God. STOP claiming what you have is God's word. It's not.
sandbar3000 2 years ago
The Lord is not SLACK is concerning his promise, as some men would count slackness; but is longsuffering to US-WARD, not willing that any should parish, but that all should come to repentence.
Your just like everyone else. Stop rying to change God's Word. You left very relevant words out (like US-Ward and longsuffereing). Why? Don't like the words God uses?
sandbar3000 2 years ago
I think it's important for people to recognize that Mark Kielar is NOT speaking about Evangelism. Rather, he is speaking about Soteriology (the study of salvation). Some people think that Calvinism takes away from evangelism. I has been my experience, however, that the proper view of soteriology actually helps in evangelistic endeavors to unbelievers as well as believers. Many of the comments below, refuting Calvinism, mistakenly make the two synonymous. They are different issues :)
rkg62976 2 years ago
God is not schizophrenic, but some of the folks who claimed to have conversations with him might have been. Before the advent of psychiatric medicine, who diagnosed the schizophrenic, and who is to say that their "encounters" were not accepted as gospel?
kadene2 2 years ago
just out of curiosity, do calvinists simply jettison the idea of god being just ("just" being defined in the usual manner)? Surely anybody can see that arbitrarily condemning some people to eternal torture regardless of their beliefs or actions is unjust. Is the typical calvinist response that god's justice is different from human justice? or that god is so powerful that he can do whatever he feels like (a "might makes right" kind of thing)? or what?
davemccune 2 years ago
When Jesus said that Sodom and Gomorrah would rise in judgment against this generation...they would have repented in ashes...etc. Was He saying that God "could" have done something to save them and did not? Whose idea was it not to save the Sodomites? How just is a God who does not offer equal opportunity? I don't think I can answer your question, but perhaps I have given you a launching point to start your honest inquiry by yourself. You must be comfortable in your beliefs.
1kyboard 2 years ago
Please every 1, dont B fooled in2 beleving Jesus wants sum people 2 burn N hell. PLEASE read Ezk33:11; Ezk18:23-32; Luk13:34; 1 Tim2:3,4; Mat 23:34-38; John3:16; Beleving this guys interpretation makes th bible contradictory. Jesus cried out "How often I wanted 2 gather ur children 2gether,just as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and YOU would not have it." God desires ALL men 2B saved. THE BIBLE declares it is Jesus' personal desire 4all men 2b saved, contrary 2this guy
darwin047 2 years ago
I think it is important to remember that Calvinist soteriology does not change the method God uses to call His people. Calvinism does not diminish evangelism, it strengthens it. Ez.33,18; Deut.30:18-20,31:1--are all about a prophet of God communicating to the people of God 'calling' to them by the preaching of the Gospel. What Mr.Kielar is emphasizing is Soteriology, not evangelistic technique. It seems you may be confusing these two issues. 1=the Gospel calling. 2=the study of Salvation.
rkg62976 2 years ago
It is written in the Apocalypse of Peter that God, in fact, does forgive everyone. Same person, same message.
Apocryphile1970 2 years ago
The bible was sellectively put together by men and words meanings changed. The word repentance in the original greek was metanoeo meaning change of mind. As in metamorphosis it refers to a fundamental change. So what repentance or metanoeo was supposed to convey was that we need to raise our level of consciousness. Stop listening to the media and traditional ideology, it is all deception. Apocalypse means to reveal a hidden truth, so stop and let it be revealed.
TheWillwillwill 2 years ago
Is it possible that Arminianism and Calvinism are 100% compatible on their core concepts?: that everyone who is saved chooses God from their free will but this free will choice was enabled by God? To clarify: God being unconstrained by time knew everything that would ever happen before the creation of the world, chose a world to come into existence in which specific people would be saved in their free will, and these people can be said to receive irresistible grace by God's initial choice.
Lion3Lamb 2 years ago 9
" that everyone who is saved chooses God from their free will but this free will choice was enabled by God?"
You see, this strikes right to the core of the issue. Now all we have to do, is define what we mean by "free will." And to do this with a "Biblical" understanding, I think it is critical that we understand what the Bible says about our fallen condition. To think that we contribute something, is to make us the "Alpha" and God the "Omega." You know the one that closes the deal. :p
HeReformedMe 2 years ago
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Please every 1, dont B fooled in2 beleving Jesus wants sum people 2 burn N hell. PLEASE read Ezk33:11; Ezk18:23-32; Luk13:34; 1 Tim2:3,4; Mat 23:34-38; John3:16; Beleving this guys interpretation makes th bible contradictory. Jesus cried out "How often I wanted 2 gather ur children 2gether,just as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and YOU would not have it." God desires ALL men 2B saved. THE BIBLE declares it is Jesus' personal desire 4all men 2b saved, contrary 2this guy
darwin047 2 years ago
I see you believe that the gift of salvation is undeserved.. as i also... Heres the problem i find though... If salvation has absolutely nothing to do with us and requires nothing on our part.. absolutely undeserved... why is hell then deserved for sinners.. when they obviously made no choice to stay in sin.. they just weren't chosen by God to come out of it.. If there is compulsatory heaven.. then there is compulsatory hell... can God call himself loving and do such a thing?
rizzumz 2 years ago
rizzumz, thank you for pointing out Calvinisms unfortunate, yet intellectually HONEST conclusion, that Jesus CREATED MOST PEOPLE WITH NO CHOICE BUT 2BURN IN HELL FOR A QUADRILLION BILLION MILLENNIA! the answer (maybe) Jesus gives every man a measure of faith. Rom12:3 Jesus sovereignly allows all men the choice to accept Him through faith, Deut30:18-20 Josh24:14-16 Is56:4-5 while simultaneously allowing all men to resist Him.
darwin047 2 years ago 2
Gods justice. A a living man/women, God gives us a change to come to Him when ALIVE. After death, it's too late. Hell is more than just fire. No God. No light. NO love. IF we choose God now - we will be with him. If we say Nope - GOd will say Nope to us. This is why preachers preach the Word so much. We only have this life to reach the lost.
sandbar3000 2 years ago
@Lion3Lamb Have you noticed Calvinist rarely if ever say this, but Arminians often do? I think it's b/c Arminians will sometimes admit Scripture teaches Calvinism, but they are resistant to accept it. Calvinists have already submitted to what Scripture says and are no longer holding to the "free will" tradition of men. It's impossible for both Arminianism and Calvinism to be 100% compatible. The TULIP is the area of EXPLICIT contradiction. The views are not compatible - at least 1 is wrong
wufpackjack 8 months ago
@wufpackjack You accidentally posted your comment two times.
In any case, it's kind of weird that you're responding to a comment that I made 2 years ago. Since then, my views have changed. Thus, not only am I having trouble understanding what you said because you're not articulating your point well (perhaps the consequence of being overly terse), but your comment also seems nonsensical due to a disconnect between your interpretation of a few sentences I typed in the past and who I am today.
Lion3Lamb 8 months ago
@Lion3Lamb Hello, I was just trying to point out the 2 views aren't compatible - at least 1 is wrong. The TULIP is the area in which they explicitly disagree. Blessings in Messiah
wufpackjack 8 months ago
@Lion3Lamb Have you noticed Calvinist rarely if ever say this, but Arminians often do? I think it's b/c Arminians will sometimes admit Scripture teaches Calvinism, but they are resistant to accept it. Calvinists have already submitted to what Scripture says and are no longer holding to the "free will" tradition of men. It's impossible for both Arminianism and Calvinism to be 100% compatible. The TULIP is the area of EXPLICIT contradiction. The views are not compatible - at least 1 is wrong
wufpackjack 8 months ago
Dear friend please do not tell me you are questioning my salvation because I am not a hyper calvinist... If you are then there is no need to continue. I am neither Calvinist nor am I Fully armenian. I might be a 1 point Calvinist. but I have been studying and I do not see that your explanation of the scriptures if infallible. I too have the Holy Spirit and I have not come to the same conclusion. Nor can the Armenian explanation of some of its points be held up. Ill just trust JESUS
TexazEric 2 years ago 17
"Dear friend please do not tell me you are questioning my salvation"
I see. So you don't understand what justification and sanctification mean? Justification is "being saved". Sanctification is conforming to the truth. That's pretty basic stuff.
"Ill just trust JESUS"
Who is Jesus? Can someone who believes in him lose their salvation? Is one saved by making a free will decision apart from God or by God's predestination? You can "just trust" Jesus, but you have to tell who He is.
LaneCh 2 years ago
Also, do NOT confuse "Once Saved, Always Saved"(or Eternal Security) with the last point of calvinism(perseverence of the saints). It is PRESERVATION of the saints not perseverence. sometimes the saints don't persevere but they(their salvation) is always preserved 1 Corinthians: 29- 32 , John 10 among MANY others!
barrypatrickius 1 year ago
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ALL calvinism is the pure worship of satan, but then again so is arminianism!
Yes, "lose your salvation" is the pure worship of satan. Both calvinism and arminianism("lose your salvation") are doctrines created/thought of/ made up by satan himself.
barrypatrickius 1 year ago
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ALL calvinism is the pure worship of satan, but then again so is arminianism!
Yes, "lose your salvation" is the pure worship of satan. Both calvinism and arminianism("lose your salvation") are doctrines created/thought of/ made up by satan himself.
barrypatrickius 1 year ago
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@TexazEric This is another verse where the KJV neglected to replace perish with hell.
yarrw 1 year ago
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@TexazEric ALL calvinism is the pure worship of satan, but then again so is arminianism!
Yes, "lose your salvation" is the pure worship of satan. Both calvinism and arminianism("lose your salvation") are doctrines created/thought of/ made up by satan himself.
barrypatrickius 1 year ago
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ALL calvinism is the pure worship of satan, but then again so is arminianism!
Yes, "lose your salvation" is the pure worship of satan. Both calvinism and arminianism("lose your salvation") are doctrines created/thought of/ made up by satan himself.
barrypatrickius 1 year ago
@TexazEric there is no such thing as a hyper calvinist you are eithr a calvinist or your not the term comes from people who just want the god they like not the true GOD all points of calvin eithr stand together or not at all don't be decieved the arminian way only producess pride I know I used to think it was right but now I know different GOD taughtme that through many years of suffering
patriotsfan1379 10 months ago
@patriotsfan1379 I am now learning about this and i have suffered alot myself and yes i think your right about how God disiplines us and as isaid i am learning on this.
Stan6468 4 months ago
@Stan6468 a good book to read is ""when god weeps"" by joni erreckson tada highly recomend it may GOD bless you
patriotsfan1379 4 months ago
I am not a strong holder of either position, totally but I do lean a bit Armenian. And I think that the call is to all "whosoever" calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. What I considered Harsh is the fact that I did not take a hard stance and you accused. Anyway. So you are saying that IF I do not believe in Predestination in the manner you say then I cannot continue in sanctification? This is where I have problems with Calvinism. Im out of room but have a lot to say.
TexazEric 2 years ago
"So you are saying that IF I do not believe in Predestination... then I cannot continue in sanctification?"
Both of our positions can't be right logically. Either one is right and the other is wrong, or they are both wrong. They can't be both right, though. I know that your position is logically inconsistent from experience, and I believe that mine is true to Scripture. Since the Holy Spirit is the one that sanctifies and since He leads us into all truth, it's a matter of sanctification.
LaneCh 2 years ago
I'm sorry but I don't see how this argument says God is schizo. It seems fully compatible with the idea of God giving man Free Will. And I dont think I understood of how to properly interpret the words" The Lord.... is not wiling that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance" I believe in God's sovreignty but to me HE does not lose any of His sovereignty by giving man free will. This subject is so confusing.
TexazEric 2 years ago
Who is the "you" in 2 Peter 3:9? ("patient towards you...") Either two things you can do at this point. 1) Explain who the "you" is. or 2) Ignore Scripture yet still say you hold to the Bible as your authority (in other words, lie).
Also, please provide one indicative verse in the Bible that says man has a free-will. (I assert that you can't because it doesn't exist.)
LaneCh 2 years ago
Wow a little harsh arent you? I don't deny the sovreignty of God. I just have issues with the tons of passages that indicate that all humanity is given this call to repentence. I dont think either side of this argument can conclusively prove their case. My salvation is not dependent on how I interpret these versus, Only that I know that Jesus died for my sins and rose again. The Holy Spirit now dwells in me and I am saved by the grace of God. I just think this is confusing.
TexazEric 2 years ago 13
A little harsh? Good grief. Stating statements of fact isn't harsh. It's just telling the truth. Either one of those two things could happen. I see you chose option 2). Perhaps you thought it was harsh because, after you conceded that you would hold to option 2), you knew that you had to come after my person in claiming that I'm a little harsh so it wouldn't reflect so badly on yourself. That's typical for you people, and I'm used to it.
LaneCh 2 years ago
"My salvation is not dependent on how I interpret these versus,"
Your justification isn't dependent on this, but your sanctification is.
LaneCh 2 years ago
Lane, "And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified."- So if one is justified, wouldn't it follow that one is also glorified? (including sanctification)- So even though TexazEric might not understand that man's total depravity prevents man to answer the call to repentence, can you totally rule out that the Holy Spirit will reveal this to him later? Couldn't he still be justified cuz of his faith in Jesus?
aldoivan16 2 years ago
@LaneCh your personal interpretation of the bible based on many churches following the doctrine of a flawed man with many questionable acts and judgements is not FACT it is just your opinion. and yes the whole church can be wrong.. see the 12th to 14th centurys.
TheHellbinder 1 year ago
Why don't you get out from in front of your computer and engage real, live people. And, realize that, despite minor disagreements, we're your brothers and sisters.
msb0000 2 years ago
It seems as though Lane is angry, petty little man who can't have a discussion without trying to scoff or belittle. You are obviously insecure with beliefs. Calvinists treat their doctrine on the same level as the Deity of Christ or the doctrine of the Trinity; it's not. Have a discussion, treat people with respect, you'll have more success and friends.
msb0000 2 years ago
So in other words, you either 1) have no arguments to present or 2) believe that they're too weak to stand up to scrutiny so you won't present them. Either way, ad hominems instead of arguments certainly don't help your position.
Typical Arminian caught up in his own righteousness. :)
LaneCh 2 years ago
I don't why you feel he need to unnecessarily attack your fellow believers. You are obviously very insecure. I forgive you. I accept the plain reading of the text. The burden of proof is on you and the guy in the video and his feeble attempt to reinterpret the text.
msb0000 2 years ago
How am I insecure? Unless you haven't realized (and I'm certainly not discounting the possibility that this is the case), I'm the one who can actually back up what they profess. It's sad. You claim that you can answer the arguments, but it seems that you're only into ad hominems. I have better things to spend my time on than people who blasphemously use the reason of "fellow believer" to justify them using excuses. Repent from using Christianity in this self-serving way.
LaneCh 2 years ago
So, he tried to refute the argument (very unconvincingly), but failed to postulate an alternative.
msb0000 2 years ago
"So, he tried to refute the argument "
Unlike you.
"but failed to postulate an alternative."
Just like you.
LaneCh 2 years ago
I have no argument to refute. I have the plain reading of the text. I'm not trying to take an obscure OT passage and change the meaning of the NT passage...nice try though.
msb0000 2 years ago
Can't argue with that logic! lol
LaneCh 2 years ago
Oh, Arminians... always taking things out of the context of the entire work to make your points.
/watch?v=_A5A8XBRVbw
LaneCh 2 years ago
I'm not an Arminian...I am most definitely not a Calvinist. Jesus died for all who would receive Him. For whoever calls upon the Lord shall be saved. Don't make the Gospel harder than it has to be.
msb0000 2 years ago
First, not an Arminian. Second, I'm not taking anything out of context. Calvinists need to spend less time in Romans 9 and more in 1 Cor. 13. Theology is not the end, love is. If I have not love...To believe that Godcreates people to throw them into Hell is ridiculous. As Geisler says, Limited Atonement is "divine rape."
msb0000 2 years ago
You're an Arminian just like Geisler. Also, where is the argument you present? I could care less about your baseless assertions. Actually give me something to work with or be happy approving yourself for the rest of your life without any scrutiny as to why.
LaneCh 2 years ago
Why don't you let me answer your argument?
msb0000 2 years ago
"Why don't you let me answer your argument?"
As you can see, I did. What I don't do, however, is babysit around just waiting for you to make one so I can approve it. When it said, "pending approval", that should have been your first clue.
LaneCh 2 years ago
Hi LaneCH
The Gospel letters of the NT were written at that time (By The Saved To The Saved) these were the first Apostles, CHOSEN by our Lord to preach The Gospel to the people. My suggestion is : Could these men (Be The Elect) refered to throughout scripture. If that were so, then there could be no Arm'/Calv' conflict, as both possitions would be scriptualy in agreement. These Arm'/Calv' disputes bother me. I am trying to preach peace, so please stop the fighting, and just Love one another.
Loonypics 3 years ago
These disputes come from interpreting the Bible. What you are preaching is not peace; what you are preaching is the acceptance of your position and ignorance regarding anything that doesn't agree with it. It's not honest to deal with the Scripture in regard of what bothers you or not. It would be dishonoring to God to say, "Please accept Calvinism because all other views bother me." and not to make the view available to scrutiny. I pray that you reevaluate your position.
LaneCh 3 years ago
What part of 'suggestion' did you fail to understand. I'm not on anyones side in this time wasting futile argument,perhaps the dark glass you see through is darker than most, there's no love in you that I have noticed.
you appear to be selfrightious and full of bigotted pride to me. Don't bother responding.
Loonypics 3 years ago
No, I will respond because I think that your comment personifies what is wrong with those who take the "doctrine divides" stance. The truth is that you presented doctrine cordially at first, but when I ask that you perhaps reexamine where you stand, I'm a "selfrightious" person "full of bigotted pride". That's exactly the gross ignorance that I'm talking about when I refer to what you are appealing to. Again, I pray that you reconsider your position.
LaneCh 3 years ago
Typical seeker-sensitive-modern-christian. "there's no love in you" how many times have i heard that before? haha, If calvinists didn't love, we wouldn't bother teaching truth.
undivided809 3 years ago
Um...Not that anyone would think this very important, but there is no T in Schizophrenic. :) Just wanted to mention that. ;)
TraceeUK 3 years ago 2
Thanks for letting me know. I misspelled it.
LaneCh 3 years ago
If jesus commented on this video would someone argue with him and his faulty doctorine ?? I wonder ...
zwreckless1 3 years ago
I don't follow what you're implying. Do you mean that Jesus taught faulty things?
LaneCh 3 years ago
The implication is that you in fact are incorrect and jesus isn't ever gonna be impressed by your lack of compassion on people who openly claim christ as saviour and he will neverbe impressed that you are oh so smart instead ... thats not a rational argument ..one I feel the lord won't side with you on ...
zwreckless1 3 years ago
my comment ment ... if jesus answered your video with a comment and spoke doctorinally about what was actually the truth ... you would probably find fault with his statements ... the idea... they are for me ...if they are not against me ...are applicable ...
zwreckless1 3 years ago
"Feeeelings...
Nothing more than fee-eelings..."
:)
LaneCh 3 years ago
are you seriously saying you don't care ... if so then say it a lil more clearly for your sake and maybe others who will see it and realize that wasting their time commenting is a worthless exersise
zwreckless1 3 years ago
I'm saying that your subjective comments are based solely upon your subjective opinions and feelings... nothing more than feelings. Get it now? :)
LaneCh 3 years ago
I have feelings and God gave them to me ..I've heard the arguement before about not trusting in your feelings and I agree ...and also think it's overworked and not fully thought out ..when the spirit of the lord is moving the human body feels it ....given that as a fact lets now go on and judge the spirit . my sheep know my voice and another he will not follow ... I missed where you were trying to lead me into the feeling discussion ..good for you you've been taught not to trust your feelings
zwreckless1 3 years ago 3
LaneCh - Just because I quote someone does not mean I fully imbibe their theology. Last time I looked at Ravenhill didn't have a theological system named after him. Calvinist quote only Calvinist - that's my point here. Let' try some originality!
artanis68 3 years ago
Well, from what Godcorpusa said, he wasn't affirming everything the persons he mentioned believe, either. He was merely giving you sources of other people who believe something in an attempt to substantiate what he was claiming. I merely showed that you did the same with Ravenhill then proceeded to try and dismiss Godcorpusa for doing the same thing. I was just making you aware of your inconsistency and double standards just so there is no question in your mind that you have them.
LaneCh 3 years ago
And what about GOD CHOSE the weak, GOD CHOSE the things that are nought. GOD CHOSE the things the things that are base. Not many mighty or noble are called. If GOD doesn't CHOSE the few mighty or noble who are called then who does? Are some so much smarter than others that they can figure it out but others can't? One preacher said GOD CHOSE Jacob over Easu before they were born, because Jacob had some spiritual sensitivity in himself. On the contrary, if GOD CHOSE Jacob HE could CHOSE ANYONE.
Godcorpusa 3 years ago
What a load of bunk! Isa 46:10 is your defense! How about using this verse within its context. This verse has nothing to do with predestination! It's about God addressing rebellion. Read verse 12 and you'll see that! It seems strange for God to be reminding the Jews of this when he predestined them to rebel to being with! Odd? Again no theology is valid if it violates the known demonstrated character of God - God is not arbitrary, nor is he a respecter of persons something election does do!
artanis68 3 years ago
First, Isa 46:10 in context supports the video fully. Secondly to make assertions like "God is not arbitrary, nor is he a respecter of persons something election does do!" require substantiated evidence and not merely your pejorative assertions. ...
LaneCh 3 years ago
Romans 9 clearly says that God elected because of his purpose, not arbitrarily and God would be a respecter of persons if he chose based on works, not unconditionally. Are we supposed to follow you solely because you say so? I'm not going to follow some man. :)
LaneCh 3 years ago
LOL! Is it not Calvin then your following? You live by Calvin and more than likely you will die by Calvin - as for me I will choose to follow the bible in full context and not pick verses out of context to support my position as you seem to do in all of your videos. As Leonard Ravenhill stated: "By overstating the sovereignty of God and blundering on in an atmosphere of stagnant dispensationalism, you safeguard your spiritual bankruptcy, all the while Hell fills."
artanis68 3 years ago
We don't follow Calvin, we follow the Scriptures and present valid arguments for our positions. Arminians, on the other hand, only give pejorative assertions with no substantiation as your comments certainly hold true. The funny thing about Arminians is that they don't even affirm they side with Arminius' interpretation. Do you affirm man's free-will in salvation?
LaneCh 3 years ago