An atheist realizes that life on Earth is what you have, and then you're done. What that means is that our lasting legacy as atheists will not be one that comes in an afterlife, it will be what we leave behind of ourselves after we die.
My main focus is that my children have more opportunities than I had, because that is the main way I can leave a positive legacy. I can teach them to treat others right. I can impress upon them the importance of improving the situation of their own children
So maybe on the spectrum you are more good than bad. At least in human stadards. okay. I do not know you but I bet you are. I am also. However I think that is still far away from being inherently good.
in one sense No one lives a good and moral life without God. And no one lives a good and moral life without giving praise to their creator. No matter what supposed good things one does if that person does not love God then they are not moral. Christians only love God because of God's grace. so christians are not supererior.
These people who think they need a god to behave properly are pathetic. I mean, do they really need a fucking invisible policeman to not steal/rape/murder?
To all atheist: if god is evil, what is the most evil thing he can do against you. Well, of course it would be to send you to heaven in the creationits section. So dont fear hell, if god is truly evil, he will put you next to the convinced creationists, LOL.
@sethecx Imagine this. You are in a section. Only you, with 99 creationists. There is not a single atheist, nor any real scientist. Have you experience that before?
god is in heaven, and i would not be an atheist if i found him. nobody would be an atheist anymore then., so why would it be evil of god to put me there?
@sethecx No, see, its a joke. Theist say he will put us in hell. Im saying the most evil thing he can do is to put you in a group with 99 creationist, no biologists, and no one that understand science.
What a selfish, egocentric old fart. If there is a heaven, I'm sure it's a place for people who are inherently good, not people who need an incentive to be good.
@MrBlackhaw People who care about other people's feelings and the quality of human life in general that they consciously refuse to lie, cheat, steal, or trick people, or take pleasure from the misfortune of others, or benefit from an abuse of power, even when they know they can get away with it. People like me.
Dont forget these are atheists they deny the power Of morals here on earth also. They say there is nothing more significant than the cause and effect on an object , yet spirituality and the after life and everything else should tell you there is something more than the eye can see and that includes when people sin or fo good.
I think Thats why in the bible when it refers to men of this age that they would" have a form of godliness but deny it's power."
@cmp2nite2 Wrong, wrong, wrong. We do not deny the power of morals. In fact, in adhering to a moral code in our lives *without* some promised reward after death, I think we have a better claim to goodness. That's because I think someone is 'more good' for doing the right or moral thing simply because they think it's the right thing to do, instead of because they think they will be judged for it later.
He doesnt get it. God helps people improve their lives and his Will and Protection helps others get out of the hole their lives are in. Not every drug addict meth head and pill popper can just change. And also how do you expect mental disturbed people to just heal themselves. Sometimes people have no little option but to hope there is a god. And when they do they find their relief. Its because god still works on ear And still what are his standards of living a good life compared to a Christian.
2:30 "Thats your opinion" I like how religious people just claim that christians are morally superior without any evidence and just claim that all atheists are evil and go to hell and justify it with "i am entitled to believe that".
And then when someone says "maybe atheists are also good people" he just says "thats your opinion"
Me: "All christians are evil satanists, and i am entitled to believe that"
There is no atheism or fuckism in the usa,there is anti-christianity !! who are calling themselves atheists,,but they are terrorists,conspiring with international muslim terrorist groups in the name of atheism to crack down christianity then islam dominate the usa and whatever else,and most of their members are muslim background,islamic curved sword being sharped to chop whoever nonmuslim ,and the first chopped head will be the head of this bold head and fat face asshole in this video,,
@bringonthewrath Indeed,I'm an atheist and belong to a Christian family and nation,I'm not anti-believers who believe in harmless faiths,but I am anti-evil believers who support terrorists and killing in the name of god,those atheists in usa are anti-christians,,have nothing to do with atheism,,most of them want to destroy democratic countries on behalf of evils,b/c all of them are background terrorist families emigrated from terrorist countries they want to destroy christian nations,to dictate
@perfectshot77 - the key thing to realise here, is that there is a difference between "Implicit Atheism" and "Explicit Atheism". The former is the lack of belief in any Gods, and the latter is the belief that no Gods exist.
@perfectshot77 - because Gnosticism/Agnosticism goes to what you think you can know, and Theism/Atheism goes to what you believe. Matt considers himself a "Gnostic Atheist", although he rejects the notion of absolute certainty.
They should have brought up all the examples of people who have done horrible things to others in the name of their religion. People have burned others alive because they didn't believe exactly what they "should" believe. That's immoral, right?
@MrIrishlogic na ,didnt mean it like that . i was just saying his evidence is only what he is saying that he has a good life which is just words to an outside person and who is he to say what a good life is?with that logic ,me saying there is a God is just as viable as him saying he has a good life
I already told you that I'm too busy to write a ton about that, especially when there is so much to be written. Have you read any of the authors I've pointed to? If not, then do so. If you really want to learn, that is, and you're not just being facetious.
If I have time later when I'm at home, I'll do what I can to write a few words about each.
You mean any of the authors you copied and pasted. If you were so 'knowledgable' on the subject like you claim to be and had read hundreds and hundreds of pages, then you wouldnt have to go and copy 5 lines from another website, thats just funny.
For people that dont believe the Quran is the word of God, I simply tell them that the challenge the Quran gives to all those that do not believe and doubt that it is from God: To produce 3 short lines like it.
No ones been able to do that for over 1400 years, and the Quran explicitly states that youll never be able to. We have all the letters and grammatical rules of the Quran, yet no one can produce 3 short lines like it.
Of course no one can, thats what the Quran itself says and says even if all of mankind got together you wont be able to, it confidently says this and it remains true. The Christian Arabs spent 16 years making a book to meet the challenge, after it was released, it was found that 40-50% was plagarised directly from the Quran.
All that the enemies of the Prophet(saw) had to do to prove that the Quran wasnt from a Divine source was to produce 3 short lines and meet the challenge but --
So with 40-50% of it being plagiarized from the Quran, and the challenge regarding 3 lines, this book that took 16 years to make was 5 or fewer lines long? What a lunatic...
--but they couldnt, even though they were masters of literature and poetry, they resorted to war and bloodshed, that in itself says something, they couldnt produce 3 short lines like it.
Part of the linguistic miracle is that the Arabs were master of language before the Quran was revealed, and boasted about their poetry etc. but God reveals the Quran and showed that He can outdo them in their own language. The Quran is outside normal laws of language.
No you cant do the same thing with the Bible, anyone can imitate the Bible, it doesnt have its own unique style and plus the Bible never claims that its unimitable, because its mainly the the work of men over thousands of years.
But the Quran does challenge the whole of mankind, specifically those that disbelieve, that if it was forged by the Prophet(saw), then produce a chapter like it. Not even the greatest Arab poets of all time could.
The argument that one cannot create a verse 'like' the Quran is unverifiable. What makes a verse 'like' the Quran? This is similar to saying "no one can create a poem that is good like this one." There is no defining quality other than the praise it has received by those who WANT this to be true.
You can do the same thing with any book. I could say, "write three lines like it," and when you tried I would simply say you failed.
No, for example, as great as any work of literature is, it is imitable, e.g Shakespeare, anyone can imitate his style no matter how great his work might be. but the very inimitable nature of the Quran is what makes it miracolous, it's literature is outside the natural laws of language, it is inimitable, all that the early enemies of the Prophet that wanted to murder him had to do was produce a chapter like it to prove it wasnt from a Divine source, but they couldnt.
Theres rules of the Arabic language. All works of literature fall into a certain category in the Arabic language, but the Quran doesnt, it neither poetry, prose, or ryhmed prose, it is something that is absolutely unique and the Prophet(saw) was accused of doing magic, was accused of sorcery because of the sheer miraculous nature and power of the words he was uttering, his enemies blocked their ears because of the power of the Qurans words and style.
Quantify. You (and all other muslims who make this argument) are not stating any credible and measurable facts. You could say these same things about any damn book.
"Oh, the Bible is written in a perfect form; it cannot be replicated. Hundreds have tried." Prove this statement wrong. You can't, because I haven't given any specific REASON why it's perfect - there's nothing to replicate.
Quantify. What specific feature of the Quran can't be repeated?
No you cant state the same about any other book because ALL works of literature fall into a category in language. The Quran does not, it is something that is outside the natural laws of language, the Bible isnt, it follows the rules of language and anyone can write a passage like the Bible.
How come you can't do as I ask and quantify exactly how the Quran's language is unique? What quality does it have that is outside the laws of language? Why can't you give an example? Perhaps it's because there isn't one.
No I can explain here, but there is a website dedicated to it and if you genuinely want to know then it inimitablequran. com
There are loads of Prophecies in the Quran that came true, like how the romans would win, at a time when it looked impossible, or how the Muslims would enter Mecca in security, and that is what happened, they reclaimed Mecca back in total peace, any of these prophecies could have been wrong but they werent.
First of all, it's "THE inimitablequran. com" and I've read the entire site.
Not once does it make an actual quantifiable argument. You could simplify the entire site down to "the Quran can't be imitated because it's so cool." Any argument of "well, this other thing is cool too" is met with "no it's not." End of story.
Just like 'cool', there is no actual measurable quality of the Quran that can't be duplicated. It's a matter of opinion. And of course, the opinion of an ignorant religious person will find the words of the Quran to be 'inimitable'. I don't.
how can you still say what your saying. I dont think you understand. Theres RULES in any language, and any literature falls into a certain category. You can write ANYTHING and no doubt it will be prose, ryhmed prose, poetry, a mixture of all etc.
But the Quran defies all of this, thats what makes its very nature inimitable, you saying you giving the 'cool' example is pointless. Im talking about language and rules of language.
''And of course, the opinion of an ignorant religious person will find the words of the Quran to be 'inimitable'. I don't.''
No, its clear your the one thats ignorant, the enemies of the Prophet who wanted to murder him, who tortures muslims, admitted the inimitable nature of the Quran and accused that it was black magic. These were people at the height of Arabic literature and poetry yet acknowldge the nature of the Quran, they were dumbfounded by it, so what you say doesnt matter.
No, what THEY say doesn't matter. They were backward, dark-ages mystics who knew nothing about the way the world really works. They didn't even know the shape of the Earth.
The height of Arabic literature, compared to the height of modern science = lose. You might as well be talking about cavemen.
ok your comparing language to science now, I dont know where you get that link from or the logic, what YOU say doesnt matter because you cant even name a single science of the Arabic language, anyway guess thats enough talking to you because you bring up some stupid points
I know plenty about the 'uloom. You have no idea who you're talking to. When I say that Arabic scholars' opinions don't matter, I'm saying they don't figure into the modern sciences of things in a meaningful way.
The types of people who believe the Quran is inimitable can be compared to those who find hidden codes spanning thousands of years in the Bible. They are old-fashioned, backwater mystics with their heads up their own asses. Their work is based in ignorance and not reality.
''The types of people who believe the Quran is inimitable can be compared to those who find hidden codes spanning thousands of years in the Bible.''
er no. The Christian Arabs spent 16 years trying to produce a book to meet the challenge, but they miserably failed after it was found theyd plagarized 40-50% of it.
And Im not going to talk about Arabic with you too much because you dont even know Arabic to start with.
Muslims often deny they destroyed Pre-Islamic literature. No Muslims tell us about the Christian scholar Warqa Ibn Nufal’s Al Katab Al Arby, or Hakmit-e-Luqman- The Scripture, or The Scripture of Nazar Ibn Harat, or the Book of Musalma and The Book of Mutnbey- the King of Arab poets, which contained 114(Abrah) Sura and many other poets.
Islam's history, the history you are quoting, is distorted with lies.
lol, you got all that from a simple type in Google,copied and pasted, with NO knowledge and is CLEAR you dont know anything about what you copied, you just deleted a bit of writing and a few numbers, thats pathetic.
I could paraphrase it if you like. It doesn't change the fact that it's true. I don't have time to re-write the hundreds of pages I've read on the subject. And for that matter, I've read (and written, as well) many articles that in some ways DEBATE the one that I happened to grab that text from.
What's funny is that you're clearly searching for the things I type, as well. Double-standard? Don't think I don't know where you're getting your 'knowledge' from. Hypocrite.
eer no, theres PLENTY of pre Islamic literature and you havent even read ANY of them. The greatest poets and master of speech in Arabia (Muslim / NON Muslim) testified the greatness of the Quran's literature. And the first official written treaty of grammar used the Quran as the PRIMARY source.
2nd, please please tell me the website / link, where I get my information, Id love to learn from you.
eer no, theres PLENTY of pre Islamic literature and you havent even read ANY of them. The greatest poets and master of speech in Arabia (Muslim / NON Muslim) testified the greatness of the Quran's literature. And the first official written treaty of grammar used the Quran as the PRIMARY source wether you like it OR not.
2nd, please please tell me the website / link, where I get my information, Id love to learn from you.
Also you claim youve read 'hundreds' of pages on the subject, which means absolutely nothing anyway, but could you at least then tell me a bit about the books you listed?
There were a LOT of Arabic writings which were far superior to the Quran. The Muslims destroyed their literature.
Muslim claim that the best of Arab poets, rhetoricians, linguists of the time failed in reproducing something 'like' the Quran. These are deliberate attempts to undermine the famous Arab poets. There were so many Arab poets who rejected the Quran on the base of linguistic features. One of them was Abdulah-bin-Zubery. He was one of the best poets in Mohd’s time.
''There were a LOT of Arabic writings which were far superior to the Quran. ''
Do you know Arabic? Id rather take the opinions of the greates Arabic grammarians and linguisists of all time.
And the Quran is the highest level of Arabic literature available on the earth wether you like it or not, you cant read Arabic and your talking about Arabic literature its a joke. The literature of the Quran is so superior, that all Arabic grammar was taken FROM the Quran.
matt is in denial, He will wake up one day. Hope that day comes before his death, cause if not, I would hate to know what will happen next. He claims to have served the church for a number of years, and knows the bible pretty well, too badd he didn't let God move in his life, otherwise he wouldn't be hosting this silly show, that will bring him no such fortune. He can continue to belittle believers, but he has no idea what he's doing to himself. God does.
Wow this guy really stinks at explaining things correctly. He keeps on using ways people twist/confuse scripture, and substituting it as evidence of the Bible having fallacies. Salvation is not of works, it is a free gift. All can take it!
Religion and religious people need to shut the fuck up. You have had the past 2 to 3 millennia and fucked the world over, time for the opposite perspective to speak.
his evidence is that he says he has a good life??? that would be like a caller saying I know there is a God and thats my evidence.This guy is a moron.
In fact empathy is 'softwired' into our nature by evolution (see 'RSA - The Empathic Civilisation' on YouTube). Darwin called this 'sympathy' and said it was 'noblest' quality of the human race. It's far more ennobling to think that morality and sympathy are part of us, rather than imposed by some sort of maniacal god with empty threats and promises. The concepts of heaven and hell ultimately corrode and corrupt human nature, particularly when you can obtain total absolution on your death bed!
Oh yeah, what a great example... using THAT guy as a living proof to having a good life. We'll see about that.
Poor old man... he sounded pretty furious in the end and isn't allowed to finish.
This host is a fascist bully. If you start to show that you disagree with him, he plays "God" of his own show and presses a button to cut them off. Arrogant people like this guy have a hard time accepting a "creator" that's beyond human comprehension. They only see things black and white or tangible.
@boamuro If this 'creator' is beyond human comprehension, nobody can know for sure if it exists or not. You accept the proclamation that it exists on word of mouth, because that same word of mouth tells you that if you don't believe what s/he is saying, then after you die, you will be tortured for eternity in a lake of eternal fire, simply for choosing not to obey without without reason. You follow out of fear, when there has never been any indication that any of it is even true!
@UnderlordZ Isn't it ironic how YOU'RE making assumptions yourself how I chose to end up with this belief of a "creator" because of "word of mouth"? You're bringing up religion. Mind you, I believe in a "creator" not from a religious book or cult following. I look at the way the world and how our body works to believe what I believe.
@boamuro So the mere fact that we exist means something beyond our admittedly limited understanding exists? Okay, what is your basis for believing that to be true? The world is only proof of the world; the body is only proof of the body. Anything that can be demonstrated to exist is only self-evidential; what is the objective, demonstrable evidence to back up your claim that any sort of creator of everything exists somewhere, especially if it's beyond human understanding?
I think the key point about Christianity is that 'morality' is important but in no way is it in and of itself enough, what really matters is grace through faith in christ, as if the impulse to faith is intrinsically different to the impulse to do the right thing; I suppose it would be if that faith was manifest in doing the wrong thing i.e. society found it unacceptable and gave it short shrift... Christianity relies on the convenient incidental that people of faith tend to by happy and do good
If one were to buy into the Christian version of morality, in which all is forgiven just as long as you believe in Jesus and accept Christ as your savior, then in that case, the arsonist who burns down the schoolhouse can be forgiven and receives eternal life in Heaven, while the atheist fireman who saves the children at the expense of his life goes to Hell to burn for all eternity. You can't be moral without God!
@DandAinTac Then why arent you a christian IF thats the case. It seems like a good deal to me? because you know its mot quite like that and never has been. But still Im sure you deny the struggle of doing good. If thats the case then you sir are divine and deny gods grace. The point is that its all interconnect whether I steal a pencil or kill a man. And gods grace is the thing provided by Christ. We acknowledge we arent that good and invite good in our lives helping with the everyday struggle.
@cmp2nite2 I'm not, because I think it's all bullshit. Furthermore, I don't think you just CHOOSE to believe. I cannot lie to myself--maybe some people can. You believe something because you are convinced, or else you were raised with it and have never questioned it, or maybe have too much invested in the belief system.
The core of Christianity is vicarious redemption. You are "saved" by believing in Christ, and damned if you don't. These are the facts with regard to Christianity.
Is it really moral to do good things just to go to Heaven and avoid eternal torture in Hell? If this is what it takes to "be good", then that's coercion, not morality. It is far more moral, for a person to do these good things without any expectation of reward for doing them, or fear of punishment for not doing the good.
@DandAinTac We don't even have a universal definition of morality which can serve as a decent guide. Tell me, what do you think makes an action moral? What do you think makes a person immoral? What is your definition of Being Moral?
@nowayout001 This is why I believe the concept of "morality" is fundamentally subjective. There's nothing wrong with that, it can be both rational, and subjective. It is a social construct--basically, as a culture we agree on things that are good and bad, and codify some of that into law, and other things into social norms, conventions and expectations, and enforce consequences for transgressions. We (most of us) are biologically hard-wired to learn and accept our culture's moral norms.
@DandAinTac But is it necessarily good for everyone to accept all conventions and social norms? Is it necessarily good for everyone to strive to meet all of society's expectations? Also, you know that different cultures have different norms, laws, traditions and expectations, right? USA is not the only country in this world...
@nowayout001 Well, if someone flauts a social norm that has outlived it's usefulness, he may become admired. That's why they are merely norms, not hard and fast laws, and it's evidence that morality is largely a social construct--not something hard, objective and unchanging. We have a long history of rebels we admire for that. If someone breaks the taboo of believing in God, according to Christianity, God will burn them in Hell forever.
@DandAinTac I agree, in fact, I am one of such rebels too. Actually, Jesus of the Gospels was a rebel in his era. But people still argue about whether certain norms that exist today are useful or not. And most of them believe that social norms are strict laws that must be obeyed, even though they might not necessarily be members of any organised religion. Yup, I do not believe that morality is objective and unchanging, normative morality changes through time, it's a fact.
@nowayout001 I would largely agree with this statement, except to add that I very doubtful of the historical validity of the gospels. Also, regarding your previous comment, I have never said that anything was simple. It is not--reality, as well as human culture, are both highly complex.
@nowayout001 However, as rational human beings, (provided we free ourselves from the chains of the flawed biblical "morality"), we are able to THINK about what should be moral, and inject a greater degree of intelligence into our culture's morality. I believe a good standard for morality is that actions which better the collective short and long-term welfare of humanity and our environment are "good", and those actions which increase suffering should be considered "evil".
@DandAinTac In that case, religious morality betters the collective welfare of their communities. It is quite complicated, difficult to be human, because every moral theory suggested are flawed, and all of us increase suffering simply by existing, sigh~
@nowayout001 I think you are giving religious morality with credit it does not deserve. Good people will do good things--with or without a god telling them to do so. And bad people will do bad things with or without the threat of Hell. Anything good that is done in the name of religion, can be done just as easily without it. To get a good person to do bad things takes religion--like strapping a bomb on themselves.
@DandAinTac How do you know who is good and who is bad? Do you know that to get a bad person do good things in fear of Hell also takes religion lol~ You are only looking at the negative side of things. I know that Islamists and the Catholic Church blackened their name with bloodshed and all that, but things are not as simple as you think. Humans have instincts, and each individual express them in different ways.
@nowayout001 We "know" what is good and bad because we have the capacity to come together as a culture and make rational decisions on our standards of conduct. We can understand what is harmful and what is helpful. To get anyone to do good things out of fear of Hell is not morality--it's coercion. Morality is when people do good things without any expectation of reward or fear of punishment. Adult humans should not need to imagine themselves watched by a mythical parent figure to be good.
CONT. it doesn't come from their knowledge of god or respecting or fearing god then this is an essential point. The animal world: The pleasure of doing good is shown in monkey studies; we presume monkeys don't believe in god or a higher authority . When monkeys do see other monkeys in cages getting painful shocks when they touch a bar that gives them food .. many have starved themselves to death rather than watch another monkey in pain. Heck a lot of humans might not do this.
@11xzxzxz EPIC AGREE! BTW, did you ever see that experiment where two monkeys were placed side-by-side in cages, each with a device which, when activated, would give food to his companion? Those monkeys did that back-and-forth for a long time. Not sure what it proves, besides the you-scratch-my-back-i'll-scratch-yours idea, it's just something I remembered when I read your post.
@gspendlove >"did you ever see that experiment where two monkeys were placed side-by-side in cages"
If you like such experiments: Watch "Ape Genius" on YT. In one experiment chimps show that they consider the intentions when given the option to punish behavior. Which is exactly what we do, and quite a sophisticated moral system.
It's a great documentary - chimps hunting with spears, outsmarting human kids and other monkey business. You just gotta love those chimps.
Morality starts with evolution, not god. It is more moral to do good for mankind, animals, the world or yourself without expectation of heaven or avoidance of hell. If a believer does good how do we know if it is just not to augment chances of getting into heaven ? Many studies show that even primates and other animals are moral and they probably do not have the ability to believe in god . And if animals are moral in terms of cooperation or feeling others' pain and
@11xzxzxz but love, grief, loss and despair coincide with mere survival and why would nature make nuance without raw survival applications? Out of nothing such complexity springing forth without order is quite a leap of faith. Even presupposing billions of years of blind evolution fastened together the life of today is an extraordinary leap into the lottery of probability and even possibility. And if that's the case i'll have you pick my numbers, but in the mean while the accident of life...
@Speegs23 You are absolutely right. How could all the creme de le creme scientists miss what you just said. So serendipitous is your breakthrough into understanding the bible and science and your information can probably save the world .. I can't wait to be held in Jesus' arms.
@11xzxzxz i appreciate cheek, i like it, good spirit, however I hope you read the full context of the comment I accidentally linked to you instead of spiderpig85.
A lot of people don't realize that animals have so called 'morals' if you want to call them that, just as we do. These 'morals' can be seen as almost laws in that creatures world. Ants don't attack and kill each other, Lions have social order, Fish work in groups and do not attack each other. There are exceptions, but to think humans created morals and law, this is just not true.
@spiderpig85 To even expand on that we can see what happens when animals break their own moral laws. In a pack of Dogs when one displays an attitude that is displeasing to the pack, they are punished for it and they learn the consequences of breaking the rules of their society.
@spiderpig85 one can hardly equate governning body of written law with a maternal instinct to feed young ones but for the sake of argument what you are failing to presuppose is how is it such instincts or consciousness came to be ingrained in life. The cop out will be evolution, but what an incurious and bland assertion, for how does a sense of conscience that binds and dictates more than survival.....
@spiderpig85 (contd.) part3 (from accident of life) bewilders and astounds us all and frankly if we are but dust in the wind, it is an act of vanity to even discuss things for reason itself is but a construct to cope and logic as artificial as it, ultimately nihilism wins, eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die and how we fill our time is our own concern for to proselytize on behalf of nothingness is not fruitful and that is what atheism effectively does. So live and let live, all is futile
@Speegs23 First of all, most of your statement has been mysteriously lost, but from what I have heard, you somehow do not understand the power of evolution. Evolution is not guided, nor does it have any end purpose, nor does it take sides. If some minute change works in a creatures favor, that creature will have more offspring. If our ancestors started to work together in social groups with rules, that is evolution. Just TRY to understand, although it may go against your current beliefs...
Children who are spanked as a deterrent = Adults who cannot be good without capital punishment, imprisonment, or eternal hellfire as a deterrent? Discuss.
I agree completely. They're coming from this mindset of stage 1 morality. where the reason I don't go out and kill and steal is to avoid punishment or for reward.
That's pathetic! Mice exhibit that and dolphins and primates do better.
"because I'll torture you forever" is not morality. It's essentially selfishness. Is altruism really that unthinkable a concept?
This caller was talking about fear. The fear is what drives us to be good is what he's saying. If you don't have any fear that you will be punish for committing a crime or "sin" then whats stopping you from committing it? Matt couldn't see that argument because he is generally good without that fear, but many people like the caller really believe that that fear is what keep people morally good. In this day and age you would think we wouldnt need that, sadly i dont think thats true.
If a judge, in order to be seen as a loving christian sort of guy, frees a murderer despite the evidence of his crime being evident - would you consider the judge
A) just
B) unjust
If a judge, rightly and justly, using the clear evidence before him applies the law and sentences a murderer to prison - would you consider him
A) Just
B) unloving - "a sadistic bastard" who loves to send people to prison where the will suffer
I would consider a judge that sends someone to prison for not bowing down in front of him as he passes(not worshiping god) to be immoral. I would consider a judge that sets a murder free because since the murder he is sorry and has begged for forgivness and worshiped at the judges feet to be immoral. I think any judge that up holds immoral laws for his own personal gain or to have others worship him is immoral himself, especally if he wrote the laws.
Which god? Its not the God of the Bible, you have described somebody else.
If you think its God, then you are looking through the wrong end of the telescope. God will send those who have broken laws to prison (nothing to do with not bowing).
We must take careful note that God rightly doe not let any lawbreaking go unpunished. Society hates injustice when judges let criminals walk free or receive light sentences. Not sure what you want . Dont you agree with justice? I know criminals hate it.
yes it is the god of the bible, I was using bowing as an anology of worshiping or believing. will your god not send me to hell for not believing?
Is it justice if the law you are being punished for is unjust? Was Sadam Hussain just for punishing his people for the unjust laws he enforced on them?
"Dont you agree with justice? I know criminals hate it."oh that's cute If I'm against your god I must be a criminal right. I agree with justice, but its not justice if the laws are immoral and unjust.
You see Him as austere, cold, heartless being Who sees everything in black and white watching you fail His many rules and then He judges you harshly and without mercy and sends you, basically a good person but with admittedly some human failings (who hasn't), to a hell that is beyond description for eternity!
Am I correct? Its quite common.
Thats what I mean by looking through the wrong end of the telescope.
As an atheist to your god, someone that has not accepted Jesus as my savor do you believe that god will send me to hell for the little mistakes in my life. Will he accept another person that has made the same mistakes into heaven if they have worshiped him and have asked for forgiveness. If that is the case your god is not just or moral. To be just you need to treat everyone same. To accept you into heave and cast me into hell just because one of us believed he existed is immoral.
God will not accept any "small little mistakes" at all. Bear with me.
God is not only loving but also just. As a just God, He cannot let you into Heaven but remember He is a God of love. So how does He solve this problem. Well , justice requires a payment, just like we do in society. In this case God provides a way for the price of every "little mistake""to be fully paid - in other words the requirements of justice have been met. cont...
"God will not accept any "small little mistakes" at all" they your god is immoral and judges us on being flawed human beings, flawed human beings he created, so how has failed how. The flawed human beings that no matter how hard they try can not help but make mistakes or the perfect creator of the universe that can make no mistakes yet he created a flawed creation. Hows fault is it if a air plane falls apart in mid air, the airplane or the engineer that designed it?
"Well , justice requires a payment, just like we do in society."
FROM THE PERSON WHO COMMITED THE CRIME! We don't send innocent people to prison so criminals can go free, do we? "Pay the price"? You don't even know what the fuck you're talking about.
Now God turns to you and says if you accept this payment made on your behalf for your "little mistakes", it will be considered or accounted to you as if you have never made those little mistakes.
But if you reject His offer then there is still the outstanding issue of payment for the "little mistakes" that justice requires. Unfortunately for that person, the cost of those "little mistakes" is extremely high and severe. So God sends His message into the whole world to invite and warn people.
Its immoral not to live up and take responcablity for ones mistakes. To accept that he punish someone else like Jesus for my mistakes is something I would never allow. I admit my mistakes and accept full responcablity for them.
sending people to hell for little mistakes is like having the death penelty for jay walking or littering. A just god would hand out a just punishment for each infraction. Your god is an all or nothing type of guy. accept me and worship me or burn in hell.
People do not go to hell because they don't believe but because of all those "little mistakes" that must be paid for.
When a person becomes a Christian, its not about joining a religion but being one of those people who felt remorse for their "little mistakes", who accepted the the payment done on their behalf and determine not to live in the way they have before. Repent does not mean feeling remorse but is the regular act of turning away from a previous lifestyle and adopting His one
"People do not go to hell because they don't believe but because of all those "little mistakes" that must be paid for. " again the punishment dose not fit the crime. as well he lets off muderers with no punishment as long as they accept his deal before they die.
Just because you have turned way for your old ways and adopt his way. A murderer should still be punished, but a lesser punishment for those that change there ways, but punished still the same.
If life were eternal what difference would any of this life mean? KNwoing what we do not know is the nature of blindness which is exampled in Cain Abel where Cain leaves to the land of Nod, after he measures himself in an acceptance to the invisible GOd, the whole new testament vaidate this statement that god is not explainable, existence simply frightens people so they simply need faith in some reason so they make alot of it up to be justified in capitalism
you make alot of sense too, the point to religions should be based upon managing our minds which is what the biblical christ was explaining as well when read correctly, which is a science, conscience= Con~science, science is explanation in being real, there is a great deal to this however
If you were angry and said "I going to kill you". Lets use the same words but to different people.
A friend: they will get hurt and and upset with you
Your local Mayor: You will be arrested and fined or warned by a judge
To your Prime Ministor or the Queen: You will definitely be arrested and imprisoned.
Its the importance of the person you commit it against that determines the level of punishment. You think nothing of God so to you His punishment is unjust. But is it really?
"I'll kill you" HAS to be taken seriously by higher authorities because.
Let me explain it real simple: It's NOT the importance of the person that determines the punishment, it's implied or potential HARM that could be done! You can't harm God, so your argument fails.
""I'll kill you" HAS to be taken seriously by higher authorities because.."
At least you understand that principle. Since God is the highest authority, the punishment is the highest and the punishment of hell is in relation to Who HE is and against Who you have sinned.
One tiny problem is you do not rate Him at all or that He does exist (which is why you find Him, His judgements, His Word, His righteousness, His kingdom and most of all His Lordship over your very existence intolerable)
God damnit, in one ear and out the other. YOU CAN'T HARM GOD! YOU CAN'T HARM GOD! YOU CAN'T HARM GOD! YOU... CAN'T... HARM... GOD... Therefore, you can't harm anything else because God can just fix it! Killing a mayor or other ruler would be doing harm because it would cause chaos! A king or president isn't immortal.
You have no concept of manners, respect, honour. You stand there flipping the bird at the Lord God Almighty and expect NO response. He assures you that you are storing up wrath (from God) on that day of judgment. Do not think for one moment that ANYTHING you say think or do has not gone unnoticed by Him but you will be held totally accountable to Him for it. He warns that on that day you be crying for mountains to fall on you to hide yourself from Him.
"Yeah, except for repentance which is a WORK." That s religion NOT christianity
Repentance is not saying sorry but TURNING AWAY from your previous lifestyle and learning His one. Its not work, its a pleasure. If I turn from wicked to good ways, from darkeness to light, from lies to truth.....thats not work but absolutely great.
Repentance for me is a joy because I know by it God has done a work on my heart, unlike with yourself. He has not called you to Him yet , He has not shone the light of His glory or is gospel into your heart (anybody who has met Him have always been profoundly affected) leaving you spiritually dead towards matters of God - devoid of any spiritual life - a citizen of hell. I pray and have prayed that God will perform a miracle in your heart that one day you may glorify Him for saving you.
Absolutely. He knew how wicked and unrepentant you truly are - yet He still died to pay for your sins - imagine that.
He must have still wanted you to be saved. This is why i think hell is that severe - His Son paid an enormous price for your sins and yet you willingly and knowingly flip Him the bird and call Him evil. If my son pushed you out of the way of a speeding car and was killed, saving your life, and you responded to his death in this same manner, I wonder how I will act towards you?
Shut the fuck up with your bullshit guilt trip. He payed fuck-all.
GOD IS OMNIPOTENT, YOU DIMWIT! If he wants to "save" us, he can do it without "killing" himself! What if your son was omnipotent and he says and he made it so you couldn't SEE or HEAR the car coming until it was too late? And he said that he wouldn't save you from it unless you let him rape you for the rest of your life? (Cont'd)
And he was the one who MADE the car coming towards you in the first place. And then he said "The only way I could save you was to get hit by the car instead!" instead of just using his omnipotence to stop it. And then had the balls to say "I gave up my life for you!!!" even though he knew it advance that he would be magically resurrected.
This has been flagged as spam show
@lotmein20 no, they are not.
mrtadreamer 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Check out my page, I posted my first video. I touch on my conversation with Eric Hovind and give an intro to myself.
jocylean 3 months ago
if atheist can be good without God, then why aren't they?
mrtadreamer 3 months ago
@mrtadreamer If God is good, then why are some people who worship him, evil?
extacyhacker 3 months ago 2
@mrtadreamer They are.
MrLittletomdj 2 weeks ago
An atheist realizes that life on Earth is what you have, and then you're done. What that means is that our lasting legacy as atheists will not be one that comes in an afterlife, it will be what we leave behind of ourselves after we die.
My main focus is that my children have more opportunities than I had, because that is the main way I can leave a positive legacy. I can teach them to treat others right. I can impress upon them the importance of improving the situation of their own children
MrOttopants 5 months ago 2
So maybe on the spectrum you are more good than bad. At least in human stadards. okay. I do not know you but I bet you are. I am also. However I think that is still far away from being inherently good.
MrBlackhaw 7 months ago
in one sense No one lives a good and moral life without God. And no one lives a good and moral life without giving praise to their creator. No matter what supposed good things one does if that person does not love God then they are not moral. Christians only love God because of God's grace. so christians are not supererior.
MrBlackhaw 7 months ago
Religious selfishness and Human compassion.
You're good because you think you'll be rewarded. We're good because we care about people.
That is all.
TheArcanin 9 months ago
These people who think they need a god to behave properly are pathetic. I mean, do they really need a fucking invisible policeman to not steal/rape/murder?
Silly hypochristians....
hellhammerz666 10 months ago
@hellhammerz666 .lol. at hypochristians. I'm going to have to use that one some day.
DeadlyRedRing 10 months ago
To all atheist: if god is evil, what is the most evil thing he can do against you. Well, of course it would be to send you to heaven in the creationits section. So dont fear hell, if god is truly evil, he will put you next to the convinced creationists, LOL.
gulbirk 11 months ago
@gulbirk
im already next to idiots.. so why is it evil of yahweh to out us beside them again?
sethecx 10 months ago
@sethecx Imagine this. You are in a section. Only you, with 99 creationists. There is not a single atheist, nor any real scientist. Have you experience that before?
gulbirk 10 months ago
@gulbirk
god is in heaven, and i would not be an atheist if i found him. nobody would be an atheist anymore then., so why would it be evil of god to put me there?
sethecx 10 months ago
@sethecx No, see, its a joke. Theist say he will put us in hell. Im saying the most evil thing he can do is to put you in a group with 99 creationist, no biologists, and no one that understand science.
gulbirk 10 months ago
Then why are you a pigheaded prick that jumps on the hang-up button when someone disagrees with you Matt?
pompousprick 1 year ago
What a selfish, egocentric old fart. If there is a heaven, I'm sure it's a place for people who are inherently good, not people who need an incentive to be good.
VerumAdNauseam 1 year ago 19
@VerumAdNauseam Who are inherently good?
MrBlackhaw 7 months ago
@MrBlackhaw People who care about other people's feelings and the quality of human life in general that they consciously refuse to lie, cheat, steal, or trick people, or take pleasure from the misfortune of others, or benefit from an abuse of power, even when they know they can get away with it. People like me.
VerumAdNauseam 7 months ago
Pascal's Wager anyone?
endofall18 1 year ago
Dont forget these are atheists they deny the power Of morals here on earth also. They say there is nothing more significant than the cause and effect on an object , yet spirituality and the after life and everything else should tell you there is something more than the eye can see and that includes when people sin or fo good.
I think Thats why in the bible when it refers to men of this age that they would" have a form of godliness but deny it's power."
cmp2nite2 1 year ago
@cmp2nite2 Wrong, wrong, wrong. We do not deny the power of morals. In fact, in adhering to a moral code in our lives *without* some promised reward after death, I think we have a better claim to goodness. That's because I think someone is 'more good' for doing the right or moral thing simply because they think it's the right thing to do, instead of because they think they will be judged for it later.
Morals predated your holy book.
andruh99 11 months ago
He doesnt get it. God helps people improve their lives and his Will and Protection helps others get out of the hole their lives are in. Not every drug addict meth head and pill popper can just change. And also how do you expect mental disturbed people to just heal themselves. Sometimes people have no little option but to hope there is a god. And when they do they find their relief. Its because god still works on ear And still what are his standards of living a good life compared to a Christian.
cmp2nite2 1 year ago
2:30 "Thats your opinion" I like how religious people just claim that christians are morally superior without any evidence and just claim that all atheists are evil and go to hell and justify it with "i am entitled to believe that".
And then when someone says "maybe atheists are also good people" he just says "thats your opinion"
Me: "All christians are evil satanists, and i am entitled to believe that"
caller: ok, but some are not
Me: Thats your opinion.
omnissient 1 year ago
The caller has the right to believe $!%# but I don't have the right not to believe.
Evolvedprimate 1 year ago
There is no atheism or fuckism in the usa,there is anti-christianity !! who are calling themselves atheists,,but they are terrorists,conspiring with international muslim terrorist groups in the name of atheism to crack down christianity then islam dominate the usa and whatever else,and most of their members are muslim background,islamic curved sword being sharped to chop whoever nonmuslim ,and the first chopped head will be the head of this bold head and fat face asshole in this video,,
lucyana222 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@lucyana222 I don't usually call people names, not even on Youtube; but you are just batshit crazy if you really believe what you just wrote.
cablepanos 1 year ago
@lucyana222
bahahahahahahahaahahahhahahahaahhahaahahhahahahahahahahahahaha troll
ashunga543 1 year ago
@lucyana222 very Christian of you, is that what Jesus would say and do? He tried to enlighten people and they murdered him for it.
bringonthewrath 1 year ago
@bringonthewrath Indeed,I'm an atheist and belong to a Christian family and nation,I'm not anti-believers who believe in harmless faiths,but I am anti-evil believers who support terrorists and killing in the name of god,those atheists in usa are anti-christians,,have nothing to do with atheism,,most of them want to destroy democratic countries on behalf of evils,b/c all of them are background terrorist families emigrated from terrorist countries they want to destroy christian nations,to dictate
lucyana222 1 year ago
"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed. “ Albert Einstein
PllSteinar 1 year ago 33
@PllSteinar Wow, one of the best quotes ever, and I think the best one against religion!
dutchbb1979 10 months ago
@perfectshot77 - the key thing to realise here, is that there is a difference between "Implicit Atheism" and "Explicit Atheism". The former is the lack of belief in any Gods, and the latter is the belief that no Gods exist.
MichaelTannock 1 year ago
@perfectshot77 - because Gnosticism/Agnosticism goes to what you think you can know, and Theism/Atheism goes to what you believe. Matt considers himself a "Gnostic Atheist", although he rejects the notion of absolute certainty.
I assume you're an "Agnostic Theist"?
MichaelTannock 1 year ago
@MichaelTannock I guess I am a gnostic theist, but I reject the notion of absolute certainty, but I think I am less gnostic than Matt.
nowayout001 1 year ago
sucking cocks = good life for these fat baldies LMAO
dhide14 1 year ago
@dhide14 keep up that christian love
starnjuy 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@starnjuy fuck you, and you FAT parents
dhide14 1 year ago
They should have brought up all the examples of people who have done horrible things to others in the name of their religion. People have burned others alive because they didn't believe exactly what they "should" believe. That's immoral, right?
tron81 1 year ago
@MrIrishlogic na ,didnt mean it like that . i was just saying his evidence is only what he is saying that he has a good life which is just words to an outside person and who is he to say what a good life is?with that logic ,me saying there is a God is just as viable as him saying he has a good life
valkour22 1 year ago
I got my moral from god. He is the perfect example on how to HARM everyone and everything in this Univers, so I just do the opposite.
Nhyf 1 year ago
@Nhyf
lol awsome
tjam262 1 year ago
If it's been proven, then it's obviously more than an opinion.
Oicurmtoyoy 1 year ago
@TheKap1an
I already told you that I'm too busy to write a ton about that, especially when there is so much to be written. Have you read any of the authors I've pointed to? If not, then do so. If you really want to learn, that is, and you're not just being facetious.
If I have time later when I'm at home, I'll do what I can to write a few words about each.
taicleis 1 year ago
@taicleis
You mean any of the authors you copied and pasted. If you were so 'knowledgable' on the subject like you claim to be and had read hundreds and hundreds of pages, then you wouldnt have to go and copy 5 lines from another website, thats just funny.
TheKap1an 1 year ago
For people that dont believe the Quran is the word of God, I simply tell them that the challenge the Quran gives to all those that do not believe and doubt that it is from God: To produce 3 short lines like it.
No ones been able to do that for over 1400 years, and the Quran explicitly states that youll never be able to. We have all the letters and grammatical rules of the Quran, yet no one can produce 3 short lines like it.
TheKap1an 1 year ago
@TheKap1an
So you don't think that anyone can write in the style of the Quran? Seriously?
Phage0070 1 year ago
@Phage0070
Of course no one can, thats what the Quran itself says and says even if all of mankind got together you wont be able to, it confidently says this and it remains true. The Christian Arabs spent 16 years making a book to meet the challenge, after it was released, it was found that 40-50% was plagarised directly from the Quran.
All that the enemies of the Prophet(saw) had to do to prove that the Quran wasnt from a Divine source was to produce 3 short lines and meet the challenge but --
TheKap1an 1 year ago
@TheKap1an
So with 40-50% of it being plagiarized from the Quran, and the challenge regarding 3 lines, this book that took 16 years to make was 5 or fewer lines long? What a lunatic...
Phage0070 1 year ago
@Phage0070
No it was more than 5 lines long, they made a whole book, but like I said, failed.
TheKap1an 1 year ago
@Phage0070
--but they couldnt, even though they were masters of literature and poetry, they resorted to war and bloodshed, that in itself says something, they couldnt produce 3 short lines like it.
Part of the linguistic miracle is that the Arabs were master of language before the Quran was revealed, and boasted about their poetry etc. but God reveals the Quran and showed that He can outdo them in their own language. The Quran is outside normal laws of language.
TheKap1an 1 year ago
@TheKap1an
You could do the exact same thing with the Bible, or even a science textbook. It's a foolish riddle, a logical toy that ensnares the weak-minded.
Here: write me three short lines like the Bible. Go.
taicleis 1 year ago
@taicleis
No you cant do the same thing with the Bible, anyone can imitate the Bible, it doesnt have its own unique style and plus the Bible never claims that its unimitable, because its mainly the the work of men over thousands of years.
But the Quran does challenge the whole of mankind, specifically those that disbelieve, that if it was forged by the Prophet(saw), then produce a chapter like it. Not even the greatest Arab poets of all time could.
TheKap1an 1 year ago
@TheKap1an
You're not getting what I said.
The argument that one cannot create a verse 'like' the Quran is unverifiable. What makes a verse 'like' the Quran? This is similar to saying "no one can create a poem that is good like this one." There is no defining quality other than the praise it has received by those who WANT this to be true.
You can do the same thing with any book. I could say, "write three lines like it," and when you tried I would simply say you failed.
taicleis 1 year ago
@taicleis
No, for example, as great as any work of literature is, it is imitable, e.g Shakespeare, anyone can imitate his style no matter how great his work might be. but the very inimitable nature of the Quran is what makes it miracolous, it's literature is outside the natural laws of language, it is inimitable, all that the early enemies of the Prophet that wanted to murder him had to do was produce a chapter like it to prove it wasnt from a Divine source, but they couldnt.
TheKap1an 1 year ago
@taicleis
Theres rules of the Arabic language. All works of literature fall into a certain category in the Arabic language, but the Quran doesnt, it neither poetry, prose, or ryhmed prose, it is something that is absolutely unique and the Prophet(saw) was accused of doing magic, was accused of sorcery because of the sheer miraculous nature and power of the words he was uttering, his enemies blocked their ears because of the power of the Qurans words and style.
TheKap1an 1 year ago
@TheKap1an
Quantify. You (and all other muslims who make this argument) are not stating any credible and measurable facts. You could say these same things about any damn book.
"Oh, the Bible is written in a perfect form; it cannot be replicated. Hundreds have tried." Prove this statement wrong. You can't, because I haven't given any specific REASON why it's perfect - there's nothing to replicate.
Quantify. What specific feature of the Quran can't be repeated?
taicleis 1 year ago
@taicleis
No you cant state the same about any other book because ALL works of literature fall into a category in language. The Quran does not, it is something that is outside the natural laws of language, the Bible isnt, it follows the rules of language and anyone can write a passage like the Bible.
TheKap1an 1 year ago
@TheKap1an
How come you can't do as I ask and quantify exactly how the Quran's language is unique? What quality does it have that is outside the laws of language? Why can't you give an example? Perhaps it's because there isn't one.
taicleis 1 year ago
@taicleis
No I can explain here, but there is a website dedicated to it and if you genuinely want to know then it inimitablequran. com
There are loads of Prophecies in the Quran that came true, like how the romans would win, at a time when it looked impossible, or how the Muslims would enter Mecca in security, and that is what happened, they reclaimed Mecca back in total peace, any of these prophecies could have been wrong but they werent.
TheKap1an 1 year ago
@TheKap1an
First of all, it's "THE inimitablequran. com" and I've read the entire site.
Not once does it make an actual quantifiable argument. You could simplify the entire site down to "the Quran can't be imitated because it's so cool." Any argument of "well, this other thing is cool too" is met with "no it's not." End of story.
taicleis 1 year ago
@taicleis
I meant no I can't in the beginning
TheKap1an 1 year ago
@TheKap1an
Just like 'cool', there is no actual measurable quality of the Quran that can't be duplicated. It's a matter of opinion. And of course, the opinion of an ignorant religious person will find the words of the Quran to be 'inimitable'. I don't.
taicleis 1 year ago
@taicleis
how can you still say what your saying. I dont think you understand. Theres RULES in any language, and any literature falls into a certain category. You can write ANYTHING and no doubt it will be prose, ryhmed prose, poetry, a mixture of all etc.
But the Quran defies all of this, thats what makes its very nature inimitable, you saying you giving the 'cool' example is pointless. Im talking about language and rules of language.
TheKap1an 1 year ago
@taicleis
''And of course, the opinion of an ignorant religious person will find the words of the Quran to be 'inimitable'. I don't.''
No, its clear your the one thats ignorant, the enemies of the Prophet who wanted to murder him, who tortures muslims, admitted the inimitable nature of the Quran and accused that it was black magic. These were people at the height of Arabic literature and poetry yet acknowldge the nature of the Quran, they were dumbfounded by it, so what you say doesnt matter.
TheKap1an 1 year ago
@TheKap1an
No, what THEY say doesn't matter. They were backward, dark-ages mystics who knew nothing about the way the world really works. They didn't even know the shape of the Earth.
The height of Arabic literature, compared to the height of modern science = lose. You might as well be talking about cavemen.
taicleis 1 year ago
@taicleis
ok your comparing language to science now, I dont know where you get that link from or the logic, what YOU say doesnt matter because you cant even name a single science of the Arabic language, anyway guess thats enough talking to you because you bring up some stupid points
TheKap1an 1 year ago
@TheKap1an
I know plenty about the 'uloom. You have no idea who you're talking to. When I say that Arabic scholars' opinions don't matter, I'm saying they don't figure into the modern sciences of things in a meaningful way.
The types of people who believe the Quran is inimitable can be compared to those who find hidden codes spanning thousands of years in the Bible. They are old-fashioned, backwater mystics with their heads up their own asses. Their work is based in ignorance and not reality.
taicleis 1 year ago
@taicleis
''The types of people who believe the Quran is inimitable can be compared to those who find hidden codes spanning thousands of years in the Bible.''
er no. The Christian Arabs spent 16 years trying to produce a book to meet the challenge, but they miserably failed after it was found theyd plagarized 40-50% of it.
And Im not going to talk about Arabic with you too much because you dont even know Arabic to start with.
TheKap1an 1 year ago
@TheKap1an
Wrong on both counts.
Muslims often deny they destroyed Pre-Islamic literature. No Muslims tell us about the Christian scholar Warqa Ibn Nufal’s Al Katab Al Arby, or Hakmit-e-Luqman- The Scripture, or The Scripture of Nazar Ibn Harat, or the Book of Musalma and The Book of Mutnbey- the King of Arab poets, which contained 114(Abrah) Sura and many other poets.
Islam's history, the history you are quoting, is distorted with lies.
taicleis 1 year ago
@taicleis
lol, you got all that from a simple type in Google,copied and pasted, with NO knowledge and is CLEAR you dont know anything about what you copied, you just deleted a bit of writing and a few numbers, thats pathetic.
TheKap1an 1 year ago
@TheKap1an
I could paraphrase it if you like. It doesn't change the fact that it's true. I don't have time to re-write the hundreds of pages I've read on the subject. And for that matter, I've read (and written, as well) many articles that in some ways DEBATE the one that I happened to grab that text from.
What's funny is that you're clearly searching for the things I type, as well. Double-standard? Don't think I don't know where you're getting your 'knowledge' from. Hypocrite.
taicleis 1 year ago
@taicleis
'' It doesn't change the fact that it's true. ''
eer no, theres PLENTY of pre Islamic literature and you havent even read ANY of them. The greatest poets and master of speech in Arabia (Muslim / NON Muslim) testified the greatness of the Quran's literature. And the first official written treaty of grammar used the Quran as the PRIMARY source.
2nd, please please tell me the website / link, where I get my information, Id love to learn from you.
TheKap1an 1 year ago
@TheKap1an
you posted twice you are noob so TOGTFO
tjam262 1 year ago
@taicleis
'' It doesn't change the fact that it's true. ''
eer no, theres PLENTY of pre Islamic literature and you havent even read ANY of them. The greatest poets and master of speech in Arabia (Muslim / NON Muslim) testified the greatness of the Quran's literature. And the first official written treaty of grammar used the Quran as the PRIMARY source wether you like it OR not.
2nd, please please tell me the website / link, where I get my information, Id love to learn from you.
TheKap1an 1 year ago
@taicleis
Also you claim youve read 'hundreds' of pages on the subject, which means absolutely nothing anyway, but could you at least then tell me a bit about the books you listed?
TheKap1an 1 year ago
@TheKap1an
There were a LOT of Arabic writings which were far superior to the Quran. The Muslims destroyed their literature.
Muslim claim that the best of Arab poets, rhetoricians, linguists of the time failed in reproducing something 'like' the Quran. These are deliberate attempts to undermine the famous Arab poets. There were so many Arab poets who rejected the Quran on the base of linguistic features. One of them was Abdulah-bin-Zubery. He was one of the best poets in Mohd’s time.
taicleis 1 year ago
@taicleis
''There were a LOT of Arabic writings which were far superior to the Quran. ''
Do you know Arabic? Id rather take the opinions of the greates Arabic grammarians and linguisists of all time.
And the Quran is the highest level of Arabic literature available on the earth wether you like it or not, you cant read Arabic and your talking about Arabic literature its a joke. The literature of the Quran is so superior, that all Arabic grammar was taken FROM the Quran.
TheKap1an 1 year ago
Comment removed
TheKap1an 1 year ago
matt is in denial, He will wake up one day. Hope that day comes before his death, cause if not, I would hate to know what will happen next. He claims to have served the church for a number of years, and knows the bible pretty well, too badd he didn't let God move in his life, otherwise he wouldn't be hosting this silly show, that will bring him no such fortune. He can continue to belittle believers, but he has no idea what he's doing to himself. God does.
Jesusthemessiahd4ms 1 year ago
@Jesusthemessiahd4ms Is it wrong to try and find the truth bout the universe? is it wrong to exept an explenation that has no proof to back it up?
Id say he does a good thing when he tests peoples arguments, if God really exists then wouldnt he gives us proof?
Sweddude 1 year ago
This caller professes belief for no good reason, therefore he has no reason not to accept all other religious beliefs.
destronia123 1 year ago
Wow this guy really stinks at explaining things correctly. He keeps on using ways people twist/confuse scripture, and substituting it as evidence of the Bible having fallacies. Salvation is not of works, it is a free gift. All can take it!
Kelieky 1 year ago
Is it really considered extreme to say destroy churches and start constructing more schools?
2AP4Yoo 1 year ago
@2AP4Yoo no its the right thing to do
IGNsucks 1 year ago
Religion and religious people need to shut the fuck up. You have had the past 2 to 3 millennia and fucked the world over, time for the opposite perspective to speak.
mark1970able 1 year ago
his evidence is that he says he has a good life??? that would be like a caller saying I know there is a God and thats my evidence.This guy is a moron.
valkour22 1 year ago
In fact empathy is 'softwired' into our nature by evolution (see 'RSA - The Empathic Civilisation' on YouTube). Darwin called this 'sympathy' and said it was 'noblest' quality of the human race. It's far more ennobling to think that morality and sympathy are part of us, rather than imposed by some sort of maniacal god with empty threats and promises. The concepts of heaven and hell ultimately corrode and corrupt human nature, particularly when you can obtain total absolution on your death bed!
colourmegone 1 year ago
Oh yeah, what a great example... using THAT guy as a living proof to having a good life. We'll see about that.
Poor old man... he sounded pretty furious in the end and isn't allowed to finish.
This host is a fascist bully. If you start to show that you disagree with him, he plays "God" of his own show and presses a button to cut them off. Arrogant people like this guy have a hard time accepting a "creator" that's beyond human comprehension. They only see things black and white or tangible.
boamuro 1 year ago
@boamuro If this 'creator' is beyond human comprehension, nobody can know for sure if it exists or not. You accept the proclamation that it exists on word of mouth, because that same word of mouth tells you that if you don't believe what s/he is saying, then after you die, you will be tortured for eternity in a lake of eternal fire, simply for choosing not to obey without without reason. You follow out of fear, when there has never been any indication that any of it is even true!
UnderlordZ 1 year ago
@UnderlordZ Isn't it ironic how YOU'RE making assumptions yourself how I chose to end up with this belief of a "creator" because of "word of mouth"? You're bringing up religion. Mind you, I believe in a "creator" not from a religious book or cult following. I look at the way the world and how our body works to believe what I believe.
boamuro 1 year ago
@boamuro So the mere fact that we exist means something beyond our admittedly limited understanding exists? Okay, what is your basis for believing that to be true? The world is only proof of the world; the body is only proof of the body. Anything that can be demonstrated to exist is only self-evidential; what is the objective, demonstrable evidence to back up your claim that any sort of creator of everything exists somewhere, especially if it's beyond human understanding?
UnderlordZ 1 year ago
I think the key point about Christianity is that 'morality' is important but in no way is it in and of itself enough, what really matters is grace through faith in christ, as if the impulse to faith is intrinsically different to the impulse to do the right thing; I suppose it would be if that faith was manifest in doing the wrong thing i.e. society found it unacceptable and gave it short shrift... Christianity relies on the convenient incidental that people of faith tend to by happy and do good
Xenostrobe 1 year ago
Believe me..there are so many idiots...you would love to kick their ass,
the first mistake is to give them a break...
as if that, would cure them of their stupidity.
I guess is all about how secure you are,
How well you know your self.
.. to make the choices that you must.
02javis 1 year ago
We are actually living the last stand of religions... In less than 50 years, it will only be myths like Olympus gods are actually...
That still won't be a perfect world but we'll have solve one major source/excuse for conflict...
Acrimonator 1 year ago 4
@Acrimonator
I so hope you are right my friend.
4me2cclearly 1 year ago
@Acrimonator What do you know about a perfect world? Aren't you "forcing" your standards of perfection upon others?
nowayout001 1 year ago
If one were to buy into the Christian version of morality, in which all is forgiven just as long as you believe in Jesus and accept Christ as your savior, then in that case, the arsonist who burns down the schoolhouse can be forgiven and receives eternal life in Heaven, while the atheist fireman who saves the children at the expense of his life goes to Hell to burn for all eternity. You can't be moral without God!
DandAinTac 1 year ago 18
@DandAinTac Then why arent you a christian IF thats the case. It seems like a good deal to me
cmp2nite2 1 year ago
@DandAinTac Then why arent you a christian IF thats the case. It seems like a good deal to me? because you know its mot quite like that and never has been. But still Im sure you deny the struggle of doing good. If thats the case then you sir are divine and deny gods grace. The point is that its all interconnect whether I steal a pencil or kill a man. And gods grace is the thing provided by Christ. We acknowledge we arent that good and invite good in our lives helping with the everyday struggle.
cmp2nite2 1 year ago
@cmp2nite2 I'm not, because I think it's all bullshit. Furthermore, I don't think you just CHOOSE to believe. I cannot lie to myself--maybe some people can. You believe something because you are convinced, or else you were raised with it and have never questioned it, or maybe have too much invested in the belief system.
The core of Christianity is vicarious redemption. You are "saved" by believing in Christ, and damned if you don't. These are the facts with regard to Christianity.
DandAinTac 1 year ago
Is it really moral to do good things just to go to Heaven and avoid eternal torture in Hell? If this is what it takes to "be good", then that's coercion, not morality. It is far more moral, for a person to do these good things without any expectation of reward for doing them, or fear of punishment for not doing the good.
DandAinTac 1 year ago 18
@DandAinTac We don't even have a universal definition of morality which can serve as a decent guide. Tell me, what do you think makes an action moral? What do you think makes a person immoral? What is your definition of Being Moral?
nowayout001 1 year ago
@nowayout001 This is why I believe the concept of "morality" is fundamentally subjective. There's nothing wrong with that, it can be both rational, and subjective. It is a social construct--basically, as a culture we agree on things that are good and bad, and codify some of that into law, and other things into social norms, conventions and expectations, and enforce consequences for transgressions. We (most of us) are biologically hard-wired to learn and accept our culture's moral norms.
DandAinTac 1 year ago
@DandAinTac But is it necessarily good for everyone to accept all conventions and social norms? Is it necessarily good for everyone to strive to meet all of society's expectations? Also, you know that different cultures have different norms, laws, traditions and expectations, right? USA is not the only country in this world...
nowayout001 1 year ago
@nowayout001 Well, if someone flauts a social norm that has outlived it's usefulness, he may become admired. That's why they are merely norms, not hard and fast laws, and it's evidence that morality is largely a social construct--not something hard, objective and unchanging. We have a long history of rebels we admire for that. If someone breaks the taboo of believing in God, according to Christianity, God will burn them in Hell forever.
DandAinTac 1 year ago
@DandAinTac I agree, in fact, I am one of such rebels too. Actually, Jesus of the Gospels was a rebel in his era. But people still argue about whether certain norms that exist today are useful or not. And most of them believe that social norms are strict laws that must be obeyed, even though they might not necessarily be members of any organised religion. Yup, I do not believe that morality is objective and unchanging, normative morality changes through time, it's a fact.
nowayout001 1 year ago
@nowayout001 I would largely agree with this statement, except to add that I very doubtful of the historical validity of the gospels. Also, regarding your previous comment, I have never said that anything was simple. It is not--reality, as well as human culture, are both highly complex.
DandAinTac 1 year ago
@nowayout001 However, as rational human beings, (provided we free ourselves from the chains of the flawed biblical "morality"), we are able to THINK about what should be moral, and inject a greater degree of intelligence into our culture's morality. I believe a good standard for morality is that actions which better the collective short and long-term welfare of humanity and our environment are "good", and those actions which increase suffering should be considered "evil".
DandAinTac 1 year ago
@DandAinTac In that case, religious morality betters the collective welfare of their communities. It is quite complicated, difficult to be human, because every moral theory suggested are flawed, and all of us increase suffering simply by existing, sigh~
nowayout001 1 year ago
@nowayout001 I think you are giving religious morality with credit it does not deserve. Good people will do good things--with or without a god telling them to do so. And bad people will do bad things with or without the threat of Hell. Anything good that is done in the name of religion, can be done just as easily without it. To get a good person to do bad things takes religion--like strapping a bomb on themselves.
DandAinTac 1 year ago
@DandAinTac Or burning those with knowledge of herbal healing on a stake.
Sweddude 1 year ago
@DandAinTac How do you know who is good and who is bad? Do you know that to get a bad person do good things in fear of Hell also takes religion lol~ You are only looking at the negative side of things. I know that Islamists and the Catholic Church blackened their name with bloodshed and all that, but things are not as simple as you think. Humans have instincts, and each individual express them in different ways.
nowayout001 1 year ago
@nowayout001 We "know" what is good and bad because we have the capacity to come together as a culture and make rational decisions on our standards of conduct. We can understand what is harmful and what is helpful. To get anyone to do good things out of fear of Hell is not morality--it's coercion. Morality is when people do good things without any expectation of reward or fear of punishment. Adult humans should not need to imagine themselves watched by a mythical parent figure to be good.
DandAinTac 1 year ago
why do i find dawkins more reputable than christians (regardless of his scientific evidence)??? because he speaks eloquently and CLEARLY.
By the way, I appreciate you guys for speaking out against these unintelligible nimrods.
thislovefromhell 1 year ago 5
LOL when the caller say "I'm accountable" I thought he said "I'm a cannibal."
RedDollShoes 1 year ago 6
CONT. it doesn't come from their knowledge of god or respecting or fearing god then this is an essential point. The animal world: The pleasure of doing good is shown in monkey studies; we presume monkeys don't believe in god or a higher authority . When monkeys do see other monkeys in cages getting painful shocks when they touch a bar that gives them food .. many have starved themselves to death rather than watch another monkey in pain. Heck a lot of humans might not do this.
11xzxzxz 1 year ago
@11xzxzxz EPIC AGREE! BTW, did you ever see that experiment where two monkeys were placed side-by-side in cages, each with a device which, when activated, would give food to his companion? Those monkeys did that back-and-forth for a long time. Not sure what it proves, besides the you-scratch-my-back-i'll-scratch-yours idea, it's just something I remembered when I read your post.
gspendlove 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@gspendlove >"did you ever see that experiment where two monkeys were placed side-by-side in cages"
If you like such experiments: Watch "Ape Genius" on YT. In one experiment chimps show that they consider the intentions when given the option to punish behavior. Which is exactly what we do, and quite a sophisticated moral system.
It's a great documentary - chimps hunting with spears, outsmarting human kids and other monkey business. You just gotta love those chimps.
smarthandsomeguy 1 year ago
Morality starts with evolution, not god. It is more moral to do good for mankind, animals, the world or yourself without expectation of heaven or avoidance of hell. If a believer does good how do we know if it is just not to augment chances of getting into heaven ? Many studies show that even primates and other animals are moral and they probably do not have the ability to believe in god . And if animals are moral in terms of cooperation or feeling others' pain and
11xzxzxz 1 year ago
@11xzxzxz but love, grief, loss and despair coincide with mere survival and why would nature make nuance without raw survival applications? Out of nothing such complexity springing forth without order is quite a leap of faith. Even presupposing billions of years of blind evolution fastened together the life of today is an extraordinary leap into the lottery of probability and even possibility. And if that's the case i'll have you pick my numbers, but in the mean while the accident of life...
Speegs23 1 year ago
@Speegs23 You are absolutely right. How could all the creme de le creme scientists miss what you just said. So serendipitous is your breakthrough into understanding the bible and science and your information can probably save the world .. I can't wait to be held in Jesus' arms.
11xzxzxz 1 year ago
@11xzxzxz i appreciate cheek, i like it, good spirit, however I hope you read the full context of the comment I accidentally linked to you instead of spiderpig85.
Speegs23 1 year ago
A lot of people don't realize that animals have so called 'morals' if you want to call them that, just as we do. These 'morals' can be seen as almost laws in that creatures world. Ants don't attack and kill each other, Lions have social order, Fish work in groups and do not attack each other. There are exceptions, but to think humans created morals and law, this is just not true.
spiderpig85 1 year ago
@spiderpig85 To even expand on that we can see what happens when animals break their own moral laws. In a pack of Dogs when one displays an attitude that is displeasing to the pack, they are punished for it and they learn the consequences of breaking the rules of their society.
VeritasLiber 1 year ago
@spiderpig85 one can hardly equate governning body of written law with a maternal instinct to feed young ones but for the sake of argument what you are failing to presuppose is how is it such instincts or consciousness came to be ingrained in life. The cop out will be evolution, but what an incurious and bland assertion, for how does a sense of conscience that binds and dictates more than survival.....
Speegs23 1 year ago
@spiderpig85 I accidentally linked the est of the thought to 11xzx, so please find it addressed to him, my apologies.
Speegs23 1 year ago
@spiderpig85 (contd.) part3 (from accident of life) bewilders and astounds us all and frankly if we are but dust in the wind, it is an act of vanity to even discuss things for reason itself is but a construct to cope and logic as artificial as it, ultimately nihilism wins, eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die and how we fill our time is our own concern for to proselytize on behalf of nothingness is not fruitful and that is what atheism effectively does. So live and let live, all is futile
Speegs23 1 year ago
@Speegs23 First of all, most of your statement has been mysteriously lost, but from what I have heard, you somehow do not understand the power of evolution. Evolution is not guided, nor does it have any end purpose, nor does it take sides. If some minute change works in a creatures favor, that creature will have more offspring. If our ancestors started to work together in social groups with rules, that is evolution. Just TRY to understand, although it may go against your current beliefs...
spiderpig85 1 year ago
Nice
khauensteinable 1 year ago
Children who are spanked as a deterrent = Adults who cannot be good without capital punishment, imprisonment, or eternal hellfire as a deterrent? Discuss.
CrixMakin 1 year ago
I agree completely. They're coming from this mindset of stage 1 morality. where the reason I don't go out and kill and steal is to avoid punishment or for reward.
That's pathetic! Mice exhibit that and dolphins and primates do better.
"because I'll torture you forever" is not morality. It's essentially selfishness. Is altruism really that unthinkable a concept?
blackplatypus 1 year ago
This caller was talking about fear. The fear is what drives us to be good is what he's saying. If you don't have any fear that you will be punish for committing a crime or "sin" then whats stopping you from committing it? Matt couldn't see that argument because he is generally good without that fear, but many people like the caller really believe that that fear is what keep people morally good. In this day and age you would think we wouldnt need that, sadly i dont think thats true.
neoscape2012 1 year ago
Comment removed
neoscape2012 1 year ago
Yep there is evidence that atheists live moral lives.
Just in the USA atheists make up less than 1% of the prison population, while they are around 15% of the free population.
yubarraboo 1 year ago
What a Stygian little video by depressing little men protesting against God. Pity!
Bereitwilligkeit 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
If a judge, in order to be seen as a loving christian sort of guy, frees a murderer despite the evidence of his crime being evident - would you consider the judge
A) just
B) unjust
If a judge, rightly and justly, using the clear evidence before him applies the law and sentences a murderer to prison - would you consider him
A) Just
B) unloving - "a sadistic bastard" who loves to send people to prison where the will suffer
ruleofthespirit 1 year ago
I would consider a judge that sends someone to prison for not bowing down in front of him as he passes(not worshiping god) to be immoral. I would consider a judge that sets a murder free because since the murder he is sorry and has begged for forgivness and worshiped at the judges feet to be immoral. I think any judge that up holds immoral laws for his own personal gain or to have others worship him is immoral himself, especally if he wrote the laws.
The judge I describe is of course god.
fireflygirl246 1 year ago
Which god? Its not the God of the Bible, you have described somebody else.
If you think its God, then you are looking through the wrong end of the telescope. God will send those who have broken laws to prison (nothing to do with not bowing).
We must take careful note that God rightly doe not let any lawbreaking go unpunished. Society hates injustice when judges let criminals walk free or receive light sentences. Not sure what you want . Dont you agree with justice? I know criminals hate it.
ruleofthespirit 1 year ago
yes it is the god of the bible, I was using bowing as an anology of worshiping or believing. will your god not send me to hell for not believing?
Is it justice if the law you are being punished for is unjust? Was Sadam Hussain just for punishing his people for the unjust laws he enforced on them?
"Dont you agree with justice? I know criminals hate it."oh that's cute If I'm against your god I must be a criminal right. I agree with justice, but its not justice if the laws are immoral and unjust.
fireflygirl246 1 year ago 3
Your idea of God is an old religious one.
You see Him as austere, cold, heartless being Who sees everything in black and white watching you fail His many rules and then He judges you harshly and without mercy and sends you, basically a good person but with admittedly some human failings (who hasn't), to a hell that is beyond description for eternity!
Am I correct? Its quite common.
Thats what I mean by looking through the wrong end of the telescope.
ruleofthespirit 1 year ago
As an atheist to your god, someone that has not accepted Jesus as my savor do you believe that god will send me to hell for the little mistakes in my life. Will he accept another person that has made the same mistakes into heaven if they have worshiped him and have asked for forgiveness. If that is the case your god is not just or moral. To be just you need to treat everyone same. To accept you into heave and cast me into hell just because one of us believed he existed is immoral.
fireflygirl246 1 year ago
God will not accept any "small little mistakes" at all. Bear with me.
God is not only loving but also just. As a just God, He cannot let you into Heaven but remember He is a God of love. So how does He solve this problem. Well , justice requires a payment, just like we do in society. In this case God provides a way for the price of every "little mistake""to be fully paid - in other words the requirements of justice have been met. cont...
ruleofthespirit 1 year ago
"God will not accept any "small little mistakes" at all" they your god is immoral and judges us on being flawed human beings, flawed human beings he created, so how has failed how. The flawed human beings that no matter how hard they try can not help but make mistakes or the perfect creator of the universe that can make no mistakes yet he created a flawed creation. Hows fault is it if a air plane falls apart in mid air, the airplane or the engineer that designed it?
fireflygirl246 1 year ago
"Well , justice requires a payment, just like we do in society."
FROM THE PERSON WHO COMMITED THE CRIME! We don't send innocent people to prison so criminals can go free, do we? "Pay the price"? You don't even know what the fuck you're talking about.
JonathanClement140 1 year ago
Now God turns to you and says if you accept this payment made on your behalf for your "little mistakes", it will be considered or accounted to you as if you have never made those little mistakes.
But if you reject His offer then there is still the outstanding issue of payment for the "little mistakes" that justice requires. Unfortunately for that person, the cost of those "little mistakes" is extremely high and severe. So God sends His message into the whole world to invite and warn people.
ruleofthespirit 1 year ago
Its immoral not to live up and take responcablity for ones mistakes. To accept that he punish someone else like Jesus for my mistakes is something I would never allow. I admit my mistakes and accept full responcablity for them.
sending people to hell for little mistakes is like having the death penelty for jay walking or littering. A just god would hand out a just punishment for each infraction. Your god is an all or nothing type of guy. accept me and worship me or burn in hell.
fireflygirl246 1 year ago
He's OMNIPOTENT! There doesn't need to be a price at all. Bah, why do I waste my time explaining something so basic?
JonathanClement140 1 year ago
People do not go to hell because they don't believe but because of all those "little mistakes" that must be paid for.
When a person becomes a Christian, its not about joining a religion but being one of those people who felt remorse for their "little mistakes", who accepted the the payment done on their behalf and determine not to live in the way they have before. Repent does not mean feeling remorse but is the regular act of turning away from a previous lifestyle and adopting His one
ruleofthespirit 1 year ago
"People do not go to hell because they don't believe but because of all those "little mistakes" that must be paid for. " again the punishment dose not fit the crime. as well he lets off muderers with no punishment as long as they accept his deal before they die.
Just because you have turned way for your old ways and adopt his way. A murderer should still be punished, but a lesser punishment for those that change there ways, but punished still the same.
like I said your god is immoral & unjust.
fireflygirl246 1 year ago 2
If life were eternal what difference would any of this life mean? KNwoing what we do not know is the nature of blindness which is exampled in Cain Abel where Cain leaves to the land of Nod, after he measures himself in an acceptance to the invisible GOd, the whole new testament vaidate this statement that god is not explainable, existence simply frightens people so they simply need faith in some reason so they make alot of it up to be justified in capitalism
NeoOneOrg 1 year ago
you make alot of sense too, the point to religions should be based upon managing our minds which is what the biblical christ was explaining as well when read correctly, which is a science, conscience= Con~science, science is explanation in being real, there is a great deal to this however
NeoOneOrg 1 year ago
If you were angry and said "I going to kill you". Lets use the same words but to different people.
A friend: they will get hurt and and upset with you
Your local Mayor: You will be arrested and fined or warned by a judge
To your Prime Ministor or the Queen: You will definitely be arrested and imprisoned.
Its the importance of the person you commit it against that determines the level of punishment. You think nothing of God so to you His punishment is unjust. But is it really?
ruleofthespirit 1 year ago
No!!! You don't fucking understand at all!
"I'll kill you" HAS to be taken seriously by higher authorities because.
Let me explain it real simple: It's NOT the importance of the person that determines the punishment, it's implied or potential HARM that could be done! You can't harm God, so your argument fails.
JonathanClement140 1 year ago
""I'll kill you" HAS to be taken seriously by higher authorities because.."
At least you understand that principle. Since God is the highest authority, the punishment is the highest and the punishment of hell is in relation to Who HE is and against Who you have sinned.
One tiny problem is you do not rate Him at all or that He does exist (which is why you find Him, His judgements, His Word, His righteousness, His kingdom and most of all His Lordship over your very existence intolerable)
ruleofthespirit 1 year ago
God damnit, in one ear and out the other. YOU CAN'T HARM GOD! YOU CAN'T HARM GOD! YOU CAN'T HARM GOD! YOU... CAN'T... HARM... GOD... Therefore, you can't harm anything else because God can just fix it! Killing a mayor or other ruler would be doing harm because it would cause chaos! A king or president isn't immortal.
JonathanClement140 1 year ago
Kill? Im taking about offending.
You have no concept of manners, respect, honour. You stand there flipping the bird at the Lord God Almighty and expect NO response. He assures you that you are storing up wrath (from God) on that day of judgment. Do not think for one moment that ANYTHING you say think or do has not gone unnoticed by Him but you will be held totally accountable to Him for it. He warns that on that day you be crying for mountains to fall on you to hide yourself from Him.
ruleofthespirit 1 year ago
"You have no concept of manners, respect, honour."
Those things are EARNED! NOBODY should automatically be given those things! Especially not some sadistic, insecure tyrant.
Stop with the ad baculums. Emotional blackmail doesn't work on me. You lost the debate, so change your beliefs to conform with reality.
JonathanClement140 1 year ago
A person cannot ever EARN a gift.
Thats a wage and the wages of your sin is death.
The gospel is a gift of God, undeserved, unearned and given freely.
ruleofthespirit 1 year ago
Yeah, except for repentance which is a WORK.
JonathanClement140 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"Yeah, except for repentance which is a WORK." That s religion NOT christianity
Repentance is not saying sorry but TURNING AWAY from your previous lifestyle and learning His one. Its not work, its a pleasure. If I turn from wicked to good ways, from darkeness to light, from lies to truth.....thats not work but absolutely great.
ruleofthespirit 1 year ago
Yet, it's REQUIRED for salvation according to you. It doesn't matter if you enjoy it. Work is still work.
JonathanClement140 1 year ago
Repentance for me is a joy because I know by it God has done a work on my heart, unlike with yourself. He has not called you to Him yet , He has not shone the light of His glory or is gospel into your heart (anybody who has met Him have always been profoundly affected) leaving you spiritually dead towards matters of God - devoid of any spiritual life - a citizen of hell. I pray and have prayed that God will perform a miracle in your heart that one day you may glorify Him for saving you.
ruleofthespirit 1 year ago
So, why hasn't he?
He KNEW IN ADVANCE whether I would repent or not, so why would you create something that's destined to suffer for eternity?
JonathanClement140 1 year ago 2
Absolutely. He knew how wicked and unrepentant you truly are - yet He still died to pay for your sins - imagine that.
He must have still wanted you to be saved. This is why i think hell is that severe - His Son paid an enormous price for your sins and yet you willingly and knowingly flip Him the bird and call Him evil. If my son pushed you out of the way of a speeding car and was killed, saving your life, and you responded to his death in this same manner, I wonder how I will act towards you?
ruleofthespirit 1 year ago
Shut the fuck up with your bullshit guilt trip. He payed fuck-all.
GOD IS OMNIPOTENT, YOU DIMWIT! If he wants to "save" us, he can do it without "killing" himself! What if your son was omnipotent and he says and he made it so you couldn't SEE or HEAR the car coming until it was too late? And he said that he wouldn't save you from it unless you let him rape you for the rest of your life? (Cont'd)
JonathanClement140 1 year ago
And he was the one who MADE the car coming towards you in the first place. And then he said "The only way I could save you was to get hit by the car instead!" instead of just using his omnipotence to stop it. And then had the balls to say "I gave up my life for you!!!" even though he knew it advance that he would be magically resurrected.
I would think he was insane and immoral.
(Cont'd)