New York Legalizes Same-Sex Marriage + Reactions + National Implications

[SmileG333]

...

[gaycowboy31]

I tell the church Get Over it!!! as I saw some grafetti on a freight train earlier and just Laughed I loved it WERE HERE WERE QUEER GET OVER IT I wish I could got a photo of it

[jesse12073]

No to gay mariage!

[idaman12345]

@jesse12073 yes to equality (gay marriage)

[fuzzynoah1]

@jesse12073 You spelt marriage wrong.

[dmack829]

you all just dont understand "You have conviction in what you believe." I have conviction in a disbelief? Nobody goes around defending their lack of belief in unicorns... unfortunately god falls into the same category of beliefs that have no evidence.... The problem is your belief in a god has caused and is causing countless problems in this world. Im not going to name them cus I dont have the character space but I would rather people not believe homosexuality is a sin cus god said so

[dmack829]

@lunabug45 ummm... you cant claim certain things about this god and call polmeus out on them if you arent ready to defend the position that god even exists in the first place... You have every right to believe whatever the hell you want... I just happen to want my beliefs to be true thats the difference. If I dont see/have tangible proof of a god then I have no justification for believing it and neither should anyone else for that matter. I dont hate religious people I just think their wrong...

[dmack829]

@lunabug45 You seem to be defending the bible and how people interpret it without being a person that follows it (which is a rare case). I personally think the whole of the bible is crap but Im going to defend Polemius when he talks about all the cruel horrible things in the bible because THEYRE IN IT. If you want to say the old testament law doesnt apply then go on to ignore my post about how is still does and say "you dont follow the bible" then I cant help but raise a flag of inconsistency.

[dmack829]

@lunabug45 And im personally confused how you can argue with a person that is trying to defend your position and find is odd that neither you or Dirkbag are providing any evidence to back your claims and arent answering any of our questions about your beliefs. Your beliefs matter but they dont to me if you're not going to be ready to defend ridiculous claims about a god and what it has to say about a person sexual orientation.

[polemius01]

@dmack829 Can you help me to understand lunabug45, who seems to think I'm a homophobe?

First of all, he attacks me without responding to me, and, secondly, he's absolutely wrong about my position.

What's his problem?

[dmack829]

@polemius01 beats me.... he/she told me I wasnt reading these comments carefully enough but Im pretty sure the only one unaware of people positions is him/her. I dont think the bible has anything important to say at all...about anything (I dont like following books thousands of years old for a different culture and time). So I agree with you 100% about equal marriage rights... I just dont understand or care for the god part cus theres no evidence that said god actually exists.... oh well lol

[polemius01]

@dmack829 I agree with you on divine "authorship" of the Bible. I just have a good background in critical theory, so I like to face bigots like dirkbag22 with their own superstition and ignorance.

You're right that lunabug22 isn't reading carefully, if at all.

Peace.

[dmack829]

@lunabug45 then you need to make your position more clear and not bud in on a conversation defending a position you dont hold. We were talking with someone who specifically has a problem with the gay community because of something in the bible. If thats not your position (and I would assume it obviously isnt) then dont try and defend it because you're only confusing those that are against it

[dmack829]

@lunabug45 Its unfortunate and quite ironic is 3/5 people in this conversation believe in the Christian god and all take completely different things out of it. Not including the fact that there are thousands of different sects of christianity which have countless contradictions. If god really did exist you think he'd make his message more clear so people wouldnt confuse it like you all are doing. Personally I think its all crap and im on your side with regard to equal rights for everyone. so....

[polemius01]

@lunabug45 Nice try. You attack me without responding to me. And, you're 100% WRONG!

I AM GAY, you half-wit, and have been trying to educate dirkbag22 on the errors of his interpretation of the Bible. I HAVE NOT BEEN ATTACKING LGBTQ PERSONS!!!!!!!!!! I HAVE BEEN SUPPORTING OUR RIGHTS TO MARRY!!!!!!!!!

Kindly get a clue.

[dmack829]

@lunabug45 You're admitting right here that he made people gay (if god exists at all rofl). The problem is most christians reject the old testament law claiming that was older laws that no longer apply. Unfortunately for you that also means throwing out the 10 commandments along with plenty of other laws that im sure some of your would love to keep including some that contain discrimination towards the gay community. All you people do is pick and choose...why should old law be thrown out anyway?

[dmack829]

@lunabug45 go look at Matthew 5:18 and tell me what it says.. I'd love to see your reaction (you see how we can spin this book any way we want?) The book is crap, theres little useful information for the 20th century. If you want to keep following it like some brain dead zombie that cant grasp reality then be my guest but don't do it near me and don't preach near me cus im sick of hearing that crap

[dmack829]

@lunabug45 "Taking the bible and using the parts that suit your agenda" oh the irony.... Do you stone unruly children? no? why not? (if you use the "that was old testament law" card im gonna lol so hard). All christians and theists take they're own parts and use it for their agenda. Thats partially why the damn bible was made, to control people and allow people to control others. This whole thing is sick and I'd wish more people would lose it...

[poetheart2011]

Congratulations to NYC and all gay people !

to all people who have problems with this

The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they need more supervision. ~Lynn Lavner

[nybotheveg]

@poetheart2011 nay congratualtions to humanity

[poetheart2011]

"We are not the first but I am sure we will not be the last. After us will come many other countries, driven, ladies and gentleman, by two unstopable forces: freedom and equality"

Jose Luis Rodrigueaz, Prime Minister of Spain

[polemius01]

Hey Provocateur. Thanks for posting Rachel and Keith.

It seems that the homophobes are targeting channels that support Marriage Equality and giving them thumbs-down. It doesn't change a thing.

Hugs!

[dirkbag22]

God's mind didn't change. Homosexuality is still sin. It always will be. ALWAYS will be. Got that? Homosexuality will always be depraved, perverse, sick. Sorry.

[dirkbag22]

@dmack829 Neither buddy. I am a Christian.

[dmack829]

@dirkbag22 well I'd appreciate it if you left your unsubstantiated christian blabber at the door when you discuss peoples basic human rights. Its disrespectful to the people that actually care about the issue. Nobody gives a rats @#$ what some book written by unintellectual bigots in a culture thousands of years ago said. We live in the 21st century. Its about time some of you people grow the F up...

[dirkbag22]

@dmack829 God never changes, morality never changes. What is right and wrong remains consistent. If you don't care, ignore me. But you cannot tell God that you weren't told the truth.

[dmack829]

@dirkbag22 Your god most probably doesnt exist though so the point is moot. If you have evidence for an invisible timeless creator than show/tell me. otherwise your just talking out of your a#@ rofl

[dirkbag22]

@dmack829 What do you base your thinking on, that God does not exist? Please explain the most irrational idea on earth.

[dmack829]

@dirkbag22 Everyone is born an atheist... you need to be mislead toward believing in a god. In any case...its not my job to prove or tell you why God does not exist. You are making the positive claim that he does. Therefor you are required to prove his existence or provide evidence for that claim. If you or anyone else doesn't (and nobody clearly has or there would be no atheists) then my claim that I don't believe in a god is justified and entirely rational

[dirkbag22]

@dmack829 Nonsense! The Bible says that every man is born with a desire to know God. Thus people reach out to God in all kinds of religious beliefs - it's natural to want to know God. It's in our make up from birth. You're wrong. But yes, you said that God probably does not exist. Based on what? What is your thinking that leads to such a preposterous declaration? It takes more faith to believe there is no God than to believe IN God.

[dmack829]

@dirkbag22 first off you cant use the bible to prove the existence of god or anything about god... Its one book. go look up a circular argument and maybe you'll understand. It also doesnt take any faith to not believe something without sufficient evidence... You are confusing my position... I havent claimed to absolute certainty that there is no god. But given that lack of evidence FOR god I dont believe. You are the one that needs faith because you're believing it without good evidence...

[dirkbag22]

@dmack829 What can you use to prove there is no God? Anywhere in the universe? Hence your belief is entirely irrational.

[korisx]

@dirkbag22 With that argument, you can't prove there are no floating pink unicorns living on one of the of the moons orbiting Saturn.

[scajk29]

@dirkbag22 Nope, sorry, that's not how it works. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. So the onus is on you to prove that there is a God, not on us to prove otherwise.

[dirkbag22]

@scajk29 You're the one with the irrational belief, not I.

[scajk29]

@dirkbag22 Pray tell, just what is this "irrational belief" that I have? And I see that you completely ignored the point I made about the burden of proof. Telling, isn't it?

[dirkbag22]

@scajk29 The belief that nowhere in the universe is there any god or supreme being.

[dmack829]

@dirkbag22 you do understand (comprehend?) the difference between saying "there are no gods" and "I do not believe gods exist" correct? you're cluttering the issue and drawing a strawman from a position I and most other atheists dont hold. Atheism is the lack of belief in a god just as theism is the belief in a god. Not sure why you're still jumping to these absolutes and claiming that atheism is "The belief that nowhere in the universe is there any god or supreme being."

[scajk29]

@dirkbag22 As I said, it is up to YOU to prove that there exists a god or supreme being. Until you do, the point is moot.

[dirkbag22]

@scajk29 I don't think that's true at all. You have said that there is NO God in all of the universe, which you cannot possibly know, and you attribute the universe's majesty, humanity's brilliance, to happenstance. One of us is really kooky, and it's not me.

[scajk29]

@dirkbag22 "Dur, dur, you're a poopyhead" isn't an argument. Sorry.

Seems like you just don't get it. It is YOUR onus to prove the existence of a god, not ours. Therefore, until you do, what you claim is pretty much meaningless.

[dmack829]

@dirkbag22 saying there will be wars is not an exhaustive list, but the point is irrelevant considering if you prove the existence of jesus that doesnt prove the existence of god or prove that he was the son of said god...

[dirkbag22]

@dmack829 "I havent claimed to absolute certainty that there is no god" --- then you are an agnostic.

[dmack829]

@dirkbag22 boy you really don't understand it do you...or maybe just misinformed. The 2 are not mutually exclusive. One deals with belief (theism and atheism) and the other deals with knowledge (what you claim to know). As it happens I'm an agnostic atheist. I don't believe there is a god and don't claim to know with certainty that there is/isnt. I think before you trash my position and call it irrational you should probably understand it first. If you have proof for your god then show/tell me.

[dirkbag22]

@dmack829 As it happens, I was right.

[dmack829]

@dirkbag22 it's hard to tell if you're just a troll or an idiot

[polemius01]

@dirkbag22 It's probably a waste of time explaining this to a right-wing religious fanatic, but here goes: There's nothing in the Bible that addresses sexual orientation, merely homosexual behavior by STRAIGHT MEN. Hence, while it contains many good things, the Bible does not address the concerns of modern lgbtq persons. And, WE'VE GOT MARRIAGE EQUALITY! Deal with it!

[dirkbag22]

@polemius01 Religious right? Yes. Fanatic? No. There is plenty in the Bible that addresses sexuality. You can spin this any way you like, but homosexuality is condemned by the Bible, in both the old and new Testament. You don't have to live the way God says, but you cannot say that God embraces homosexuality, because it is sin. You will never have marriage equality - NEVER - because in the eyes of God and Christianity (and some other religions) your sex choice is perverse and abnormal.

[polemius01]

@dirkbag22 Well, I was right. It was a waste of time. You cannot show me one part of the Bible that addresses, much less condemns, sexual orientation. Yet, you BELIEVE it is there. that's the mark of a true fanatic.

God created homosexuality, half-wit, and God cherishes us. Those who "do evil in their hearts," such as yourself, are in big trouble, however.

[dirkbag22]

@polemius01 So I guess 'abomination' isn't a condemnation. Throughout the old and new testaments, the Bible is clear. Homosexuality is wrong. God did NOT create homosexuality. He created heterosexuality. At no point was there ever created an Adam and Steve or an Adelle and Eve. Sorry.

[polemius01]

@dirkbag22 Still haven't shown me anything from the Bible that explicitly addresses the homosexual orientation except one word, "abomination." You're not very good at this, are you?

The "Adam & Steve" comment has cobwebs on it and betrays once more your fanaticism. You're sorry about nothing. You gleefully interpret the Bible so that is affirms your 'a priori" hatred of lgbtq persons, and you're happy about it; it makes you feel superior.

[dirkbag22]

@polemius01 So you think 'abomination'

is a good thing? Fine, believe what you will.

The Adam and Steve comment is used often

because Adam and Eve are the template for

couples. That's it. No lesbians, no homo-

sexual dudes exemplified.

Yes, I am very good at this. If you want to

show me that an abomination to God is

a good thing, please feel free.

[polemius01]

@dirkbag22 Pt 1: Ah, another bigot with a reading problem. Nowhere in my posting did I say "abomination' was a good thing. More "a priori" crap from you.

Adam & Eve never existed; therefore they are not a template for anything.

Enough of your evasiveness. You know nothing about Biblical cultures or languages. Here's the correct interpretation of biblical culture that you choose to ignore to sow your hatred.

[dirkbag22]

@polemius01 Ok so we agree, abomination is a bad thing. Sweet.

[polemius01]

@dirkbag22 No, we agree that the term "abomination" is a negative value judgment.

[polemius01]

@dirkbag22 Pt 2: The Leviticus text, "you shall not lie with man AS with woman," with "as" being operative, is clearly aimed at married men who would want to attempt something biologically impossible; sex between two men is not AS sex between a man & a woman. In Israelite culture at the time, propagation was most important, therefore, any loss of semen would be judged negatively. Also, homosexual rape was practiced against a conquered foe.

[dirkbag22]

@polemius01 Spin spin spin... it doesn't make sense in terms of the new testament admonishment against homosexuality, so you're wrong.

[polemius01]

@dirkbag22 You poor, hate-filled thing! There's no spin here, just a sensible interpretation and response to an ancient text.

You've made no argument to support your spurious "belief." Your lack of rational thought places you out of the running as a serious interpreter of the Scriptures. You merely use the Scriptures as a platform to support your hatred.

I've just returned from the NYC Pride Parade, celebrating marriage equality.

Your kind is losing, and that makes you hatred boil. So sad,

[dirkbag22]

@polemius01 No hate here, my deceived friend. There is no argument to be made. The Bible couldn't be more clear. And now, at the very least, you can't say you were not warned. There is no marriage equality. Marriage will always be between a man and a woman. Your attack on marriage is motivated by your hatred for God and Christians. We both know that.

[polemius01]

@dirkbag22 Pt 1: Pearls before swine, but here goes:

1. The putative "clarity" of the Bible is a joke. Like most ancient Scriptures, the Bible is culturally conditioned and can only be fully understood by the people who composed it.

2. For most of Christian history, the Bible has not been interpreted literally.

3. "Literal interpretation" is a recent phenomenon, begun in reaction to Darwin's theories.

[dirkbag22]

@polemius01 Talk about the pig calling the Christian swine! The Bible says what it says. You can spin all you like - homosexuality is still condemned at the end of the day.

[polemius01]

@dirkbag22 Your ignorance of the various schools of biblical interpretation is not surprising, given your propensity to use it as a bludgeon for people you hate.

You have yet to prove any condemnation of homosexuality, despite my repeated requests and my proofs to the contrary.

Now, go back and crawl under your 6,000-year-old rock and stop making a spectacle of your ignorance.

[dirkbag22]

@polemius01 I don't hate anyone. Rather, it is the homosexuals who hate God, the Bible, and Christians. You know very well what the Bible has to say about the perversion and depravity of homosexuality. Common sense should tell you. God created man and woman, not man and man, not woman and woman. So that's that. As far as the Bible goes, you lose.

[polemius01]

@dirkbag22 I've already pointed out the deficiencies of your interpretation of texts. You choose to stick to your superstitious approach.

You choose to ignore all manner of studies that indicate the true nature of homosexuality, instead choosing to take refuge in an outdated, culturally-conditioned text.

You're not merely ignorant. You're just plain stupid.

Your adherence to a book indicates that you're an idolator, not a worshiper of God.

[dirkbag22]

@polemius01 By the way, there are literal portions of the Bible, poetic portions and allegorical portions.

[dmack829]

@dirkbag22 its a good thing nobody knows which is which anymore so people can take any position they want. You realize you and others have set it up so any neg. part of the bible is "peotic" or "allegorical". Tell me how you can possibly reconcile the bibles support of slavery. There is NO context in which owning another human being as property is acceptable and you know it. You are the one that is spinning the bible to fit your own beliefs. This is the third time. do you have evidence for god?

[dirkbag22]

@dmack829 Nobody knows? You're an idiot.

[polemius01]

@dirkbag22 There's no "by the way" about it. It's what i've been trying to drill into your skull all along.

What you refuse to absorb is the cultural conditioning of the Bible. Your constant referral to my school of biblical interpretation as "spin" indicated your inability to learn (therefore, "pearls before swine") and your deep-seared hatred of lgbtq persons.

Your 6,000-year-old rock awaits you.

[dmack829]

@dirkbag22 Not ONLY that but I said it earlier you cant use only the bible to prove the existence of your god. It is a single book written by a few authors thousands of years ago. If that is your standard and only standard of evidence then why do you reject the quran or any of the other gods that have been supposedly documented over the centuries... If you dont have any evidence for your god other than a single book written by peasants thousands of years ago then why believe it?

[dirkbag22]

@dmack829 The Bible provides plenty of evidence. You work awfully hard at spinning to disprove the God you say isn't there. lol

[polemius01]

@dirkbag22 Pt 2:

4. Your interpretation is but one of a myriad of possible readings. You don't even know biblical languages, so your attempts to say definitively what the Bible says are laughable.

5. The fact the six of the United States allow for Marriage Equality show that your claim that "marriage will always be between a man and a woman," is an absolute falsehood.

6. There is no "attack" on marriage. Every heterosexual marriage continues to be as valid now as it was before marriage equality.

[polemius01]

@dirkbag22 Pt 3:

7. Your claim that Marriage Equality is such an "attack" shows that you are filled with hatred, no matter how much you deny it.

8. What "we both know" is that you and your hate-filled kind are being defeated by the openness and love of lgbtq persons and their supporters. We Queers are taking our rightful place in society, the same place we had before you hate-mongers abused the Holy Scripture by marginalizing, killing and torturing holy, sacred lgbtq people in its name.

[dirkbag22]

@polemius01 Wrong, no hatred here. Just the truth about what the Bible says about homosexuality.

[polemius01]

@dirkbag22 Pt 3: The biblical culture knew nothing of the sweetness and tenderness of love between two men. Now, we do know about it and embrace it. You've been told of this beautiful act of love many times, yet you choose to revert to a primitive stage of human understanding.

If you're so connected to biblical culture, why, then, are you using a technology that the biblical authors would have thought of as an "abomination?" Why do you fly in planes, another clear "abomination" to the BC crowd?

[polemius01]

@dirkbag22 Pt 4: Why? because you're a hate-mongering hypocrite.

Now go ahead and try to quote another "biblical" word at me, that is, if you know a word other than "abomination." I'll wipe the floor with you on that word as well.

[youngsaintsfan]

@dirkbag22 I burn that book on a daily bases

[dirkbag22]

@youngsaintsfan Oh that's smart. Burning books. Very astute. lol

[youngsaintsfan]

@dirkbag22 yeah I do it in protest religious idiots that use the bible to oppress LGBT people by burning their beloved book of hate and lies.

[dirkbag22]

@youngsaintsfan First, burning a book doesn't CHANGE anything. Second, it's not the Christians you should be hating. Stop that. You need to have your argument with God. It's God who said homosexuality is sin. I'm just a messenger.

[youngsaintsfan]

@dirkbag22 first off I am an atheist and think that religion is silly, second off I only hate christian bigots like you that use the bible to oppress gay people, using a book that promotes stoning rebellious children, slavery, death to entire cities, child abuse, animal abuse, the list goes on and on and it boggles my mind that people look to this atrocious book for guidance. and I know that it accomplishes nothing it shows that I hate that fucking book and retards like you! Fuck your god!

[dirkbag22]

@youngsaintsfan Right. So in all of the universe, there is NO God, and you used what criterion for that conclusion please? You hate - like I said before, homosexuals hate Christians, but Christians don't hate homosexuals. The hatred is on YOUR side. God said what He said. Your argument is with God.

[youngsaintsfan]

@dirkbag22 Deuteronomy 21:18 states that if your son is rebellious that you stone him to death, and Exodus 21:2-6 sets rules for slavery, Deuteronomy 13:12-16 says to kill anyone in a city that does not believe in god, and child abuse I already touched on with the stoning, and in Joshua 11:6 it says to hamstring enemy horses which is cruel. Like I said I hate Christianity and Christians that use the bible to promote bigotry cause of some book. Fuck you and Fuck your imaginary God!

[dirkbag22]

@youngsaintsfan Wow, anger and hatred. What a surprise. LOL

[youngsaintsfan]

@dirkbag22 Hail satan!

[dmack829]

@dirkbag22 You seem to not understand an Atheists position on god. Nobody has claimed with absolute knowledge that there is no god. Most atheists claim to not believe there is one. If you dont understand the difference then please tell me and I'll be glad to explain it. I understand if that type of thinking has been hammered into you by your fellow believers. Perhaps its time to start questioning your beliefs that lack evidence and make sure they're true BEFORE believing them...

[dirkbag22]

@dmack829 I do understand the atheist position. It is the atheist that backs off of that belief when confronted with the utter idiocy of it.

[dmack829]

@dirkbag22 I havent backed off and you still havent proved the existence of your god other than saying god is in a book thousands of years old that has gone through copy after copy, translation after translation, (heres the important one) addition after addition. Not sure how my position is idiotic and just saying so doesn't make it true (protip: thats the same thing you're doing with god) rofl...

[dirkbag22]

@dmack829 Yes, now you're an agnostic atheist. ROTFL

[dmack829]

@dirkbag22 I said i was from the very beginning... not sure whats so funny. "The Bible provides plenty of evidence." Didnt I already go through why you cant use the bible to prove gods existence? You're starting to sound like a broken record... How do you know the bible is the word of god? and why dont you follow the quran if you can take the legitimacy of one old book as proof. If you cant answer these then im done. I'm not gonna waste my time if you wont answer a single question honestly

[dirkbag22]

@dmack829 How do I know? Because there is NO WAY that men could write the Bible without God's guidance. No shot. Over 300 prophecies over hundreds of years that were all satisfied by Jesus? Come on. That's not coincidence. Anyone who does the work, is convinced.

[dmack829]

@dirkbag22 Not only is that an argument from ignorance (I cant think of any other explanation therefore god guided it) but it also doesnt make any sense because I could apply the same argument or reasoning to any of the other religious texts that have been invented/created over the centuries. Sorry but yours doesnt get a free ride to truthtown just cus your text doesnt SEEM manmade. As for Jesus' prophecies i dont think saying there will be wars is much of a prophecy, seems kinda obvious....

[dirkbag22]

@dmack829 Alright, then YOU explain how the Bible works together flawlessly when written over hundreds of years. Thanks.

[dmack829]

@dirkbag22 Thats not my job to explain how the bible works flawlessly. And the funny thing is even thats not true... Just take a minute to search contradictions and inconsistencies in the bible.... Theres a nice pretty chart there showing well over 100 if not 200 contradictions in the old and new testament. I seriously doubt this was inspired by god.... Or did your timeless all knowing all powerful god make a bunch of stupid mistakes a nowaday editor could find (and did) in a heartbeat?

[dirkbag22]

@dmack829 Ok, well the Bible works through all those hundreds of years, intricately woven, it's God that made it happen.

[dmack829]

@dirkbag22 you really dont get it do you... clearly it doesnt work.... Southerners used the bible to support their use of slavery in these past few decades and now christians of all stripes are doing the same thing to support their distaste and disapproval of homosexuals. Not to mention centuries earlier with the crusades and more recently the KKK (and christian group btw). This constant intolerance of particular groups is no uncommon and I find it hard to see how you're blinded by all of this

[polemius01]

@dirkbag22 The bible doesn't "work together flawlessly." There are narrative flaws in it, as well as multiple authorship:

1. David and Saul meet for the first time: twice.

2. Two totally different Infancy Narratives.

3. In Luke's Infancy, Zechariah is deaf despite merely being made mute.

4. Four very different Passion Narratives, with John's taking place one day earlier than the others'.

5. Four different Resurrection Narratives.

6. Ps. 51's title posits an event not found in Kings.

[dirkbag22]

@polemius01 All untrue.

[polemius01]

@dirkbag22 You're either too lazy to read the biblical text, illiterate, or psychotic. Perhaps all three.