In order to have more good programmers the entrance bar should be as low as possible. It should be easier to start programming at school, as a hobby rather than work. When programming is a hobby you aren't restricted and have just your code, so can make it clean, rewrite ugly code just because it's ugly even if it works etc. So, after you start caring about code quality you can learn faster if it's your hobby.
@sergrojGrayFace I totally agree. For me at age 12 (which was 1978) I was using old BASIC to make games like pong and breakout, and ya know it was really FUN! Those games may sound old school by today's standards, but consider TETRIS, which is equally simple, yet modern and people still enjoy.
Unfortunately there are no commonly-used modern languages that can quickly introduce a kid to having fun with coding.
This is great if you play in web browsers. There is no way I'd get a "newbie" to design and develop a mission critical application. Try writing code that controls a satellite probe that needs to be both efficient and faultless or writing an application that deals with gigabytes worth of data every second from a large radio telescope. That takes experience and knowledge far beyond the language itself.
WTF is he talking about?! First most "programmers" before Ruby were shit too. Most people in my CS program are shit now, haha. I think 85% of all programmers will always be shit, no matter how hard or easy the implementation is... I suppose one way or another relatively speaking this is just true by definition, but I honestly think in some more objective sense only one in roughly every 5 or 6 programmers I'll meet is somebody who I'd give a nod too.
Look at the larger picture... if developers were not working in such high level interpreted languages and were actually more concerned with how well their application will run on dated or crap hardware, our power consumption would be down, servers could be built to perform more tasks faster on cheaper less expensive hardware, saving our landfills. Crappy programs mean harder to fix mistakes later, harder to extend, and more costly in the long run. Its a loose/loose every way you look at it.
Correct, software efficiency will get much more important further past peak oil.
Performance Per Watt.
how many precious joules required to run your program.
In this world we have a surplus of labour and a shortage of resources.
perhaps C++ will get more popular for both client & server side (apps = 'proper' code distributed over the internet as opposed to code interpreted client-side in a browser)
Maybe there is no pure programmer, but you can sure as hell distinguish a professional programmer from one who is not professional. Programming isn't just about making things work in the short term, it's also about ensuring maintainability and making up programs of re-usable components. I have nothing against making programming easier, but it comes with a danger of the programmers knowing less and less about what they do. That is not a good thing.
I have been coding for about 30 years now and the most important thing I have learnt is to write code that will be easier to maintain later - clever code is only clever for the 5 minutes it took you to write it - 6 months later when you are spending a day trying to understand your own code; means that your code was not clever!
Every programming language has at least two audiences the machine and other programmers (even if that only means your future self). Of the two I argue after Stroustrup that the later is primary because if the other programmers can't understand what you've written then it may never get to the stage where the machine is going to. Technically I wrote my first program on a TRS 80, but I've only been in my CS department for a year. It's obvious (at least to me) that clever code is clear code.
it could mean achieving the end result in the shortest amount of time (sometimes it's quicker to write something than it is to find it) - sometimes a working prototype is more useful than a project specification.
and yes it could mean a maintainable extendible framework.
- a lot of the complexity i've had to deal with is performance where the languages/compilers are inadequate. It takes longer to wait for a compiler than to write low level code. Thats the conditions in embedded software, working for the latest specialized processors for which compilers haven't been perfected.
@jagara1 I've known a lot of coders who follow every rule. Lots of comments, consistent variable names, extensibility, etc. I find VERY consistently that those who are the most adamant about coding standards tend to create products that users hate.
Coders: Even if you're coding to detailed specs, you always influence the user experience. In software, a pristine pile of crap is still a waste of disk space. If standards come first, at least let the user experience be second.
@jagara1 You're an exception in that regard. I feel I am too. One of my favorite books is "Tog on Interface", which documents internal emails at Apple when the first Mac UI was being designed.
This is when humanity first decided: "What is a radio button? How does a combo box behave? Do we drag windows by the top or by the bottom? Should scollbars look just like trackbars?" They put thought into THESE standards, so today we can safely take it for granted our users understand them.
@jagara1 very true. I hope the future moves to better program files organization and all types of programs emphasize or were built on consistent structured frameworks. Its the only way code can be maintained and scaled w/o little difficulty over time.
The reason why there are so many xss/sql injection exploits in modern web services is because many of them are partly implemented by incompetent idiots by copypasting code from pastebin and mangling it till it seems to work. And guess what? Programming languages like PHP allow this because of their lax syntax, full dynamic typing (automagic conversion from gold to shit and back), overblown API full of trivial algos with buggy implementations.
Programmers who do not have talent should go clean the toilets or something. Shitty programs that seem to work only cause shitstorm later on when integrated as part of a complex system.
At entry level companies should really work to kick out worthless losers who produce shitty software implementations.
And note that I am not a programmer. I do produce functional programs to do small things, but I would NEVER give those to the public as they are crap.
You're right, why have trained, insightful software engineers design a system when you can have script kiddies who know nothing about maintainability, correctness, or best practices, and produce code which can't be understood by anyone else.
In any case, having "fresh blood" become programmers is not the same thing as lowering the barriers to entry.
0:02 - 0:33 I laughed because I know people that talk like that. I like to lump them together with people who study IT but strongly dislike programming in general. They let the attitude get in the way of innocent hard work and exercise.
@geekycode If you mean what i think you mean, then you should just exit from this video and read a book on programming in general or you could just not post something as stupid.
Programming can solve so many problems that it's not possible to name them all, or its not possible to think of how great programming can be, so im sure its possible to help towards global warming somehow or helping in health.
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Some people want young white females to mix with non-white males.
I made a one-minute video highlighting a very small sample of race-mixing advertisements.
I love white people, and I am opposed to race-mixing. But I do not hate non-whites.
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Thanks.
awhitesoul2012 1 day ago
yeah I am a noob leraning c++ and I do wonder why somethings are over complicated! Even some of the words used are unnecessary..
webDes33 2 weeks ago
@webDes33 i second that! java makes so much sense to me though.
jony1710 1 week ago
In order to have more good programmers the entrance bar should be as low as possible. It should be easier to start programming at school, as a hobby rather than work. When programming is a hobby you aren't restricted and have just your code, so can make it clean, rewrite ugly code just because it's ugly even if it works etc. So, after you start caring about code quality you can learn faster if it's your hobby.
sergrojGrayFace 3 weeks ago
@sergrojGrayFace I totally agree. For me at age 12 (which was 1978) I was using old BASIC to make games like pong and breakout, and ya know it was really FUN! Those games may sound old school by today's standards, but consider TETRIS, which is equally simple, yet modern and people still enjoy.
Unfortunately there are no commonly-used modern languages that can quickly introduce a kid to having fun with coding.
pburto 3 weeks ago
a real pure programmer is know how to create program not just know how to program
kenkoy2005 3 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
This is great if you play in web browsers. There is no way I'd get a "newbie" to design and develop a mission critical application. Try writing code that controls a satellite probe that needs to be both efficient and faultless or writing an application that deals with gigabytes worth of data every second from a large radio telescope. That takes experience and knowledge far beyond the language itself.
extremedavo1979 4 weeks ago
Comment removed
extremedavo1979 4 weeks ago
This guy is really smart.
TheAustinConlon 1 month ago
The "white knights" can't solve problems because we're too busy fixing the messes the dregs make.
Ishpeck 1 month ago
WTF is he talking about?! First most "programmers" before Ruby were shit too. Most people in my CS program are shit now, haha. I think 85% of all programmers will always be shit, no matter how hard or easy the implementation is... I suppose one way or another relatively speaking this is just true by definition, but I honestly think in some more objective sense only one in roughly every 5 or 6 programmers I'll meet is somebody who I'd give a nod too.
PoorRichardSaunders 1 month ago
Look at the larger picture... if developers were not working in such high level interpreted languages and were actually more concerned with how well their application will run on dated or crap hardware, our power consumption would be down, servers could be built to perform more tasks faster on cheaper less expensive hardware, saving our landfills. Crappy programs mean harder to fix mistakes later, harder to extend, and more costly in the long run. Its a loose/loose every way you look at it.
idiolore 2 months ago
@idiolore -
Correct, software efficiency will get much more important further past peak oil.
Performance Per Watt.
how many precious joules required to run your program.
In this world we have a surplus of labour and a shortage of resources.
perhaps C++ will get more popular for both client & server side (apps = 'proper' code distributed over the internet as opposed to code interpreted client-side in a browser)
walter0bz 1 month ago
Maybe there is no pure programmer, but you can sure as hell distinguish a professional programmer from one who is not professional. Programming isn't just about making things work in the short term, it's also about ensuring maintainability and making up programs of re-usable components. I have nothing against making programming easier, but it comes with a danger of the programmers knowing less and less about what they do. That is not a good thing.
Altairograph 2 months ago
@Altairograph Exactly!
I have been coding for about 30 years now and the most important thing I have learnt is to write code that will be easier to maintain later - clever code is only clever for the 5 minutes it took you to write it - 6 months later when you are spending a day trying to understand your own code; means that your code was not clever!
jagara1 2 months ago 29
Every programming language has at least two audiences the machine and other programmers (even if that only means your future self). Of the two I argue after Stroustrup that the later is primary because if the other programmers can't understand what you've written then it may never get to the stage where the machine is going to. Technically I wrote my first program on a TRS 80, but I've only been in my CS department for a year. It's obvious (at least to me) that clever code is clear code.
PoorRichardSaunders 1 month ago
@PoorRichardSaunders -
'clever code' is a generalization
it could mean performance critical,
it could mean achieving the end result in the shortest amount of time (sometimes it's quicker to write something than it is to find it) - sometimes a working prototype is more useful than a project specification.
and yes it could mean a maintainable extendible framework.
walter0bz 1 month ago
@PoorRichardSaunders
- a lot of the complexity i've had to deal with is performance where the languages/compilers are inadequate. It takes longer to wait for a compiler than to write low level code. Thats the conditions in embedded software, working for the latest specialized processors for which compilers haven't been perfected.
walter0bz 1 month ago
@jagara1 I've known a lot of coders who follow every rule. Lots of comments, consistent variable names, extensibility, etc. I find VERY consistently that those who are the most adamant about coding standards tend to create products that users hate.
Coders: Even if you're coding to detailed specs, you always influence the user experience. In software, a pristine pile of crap is still a waste of disk space. If standards come first, at least let the user experience be second.
pburto 3 weeks ago
@pburto I think you are making a very good point here which I understand to be that standards should never come before creativity.
I think user experience should always be first - if that means a slower but safer application then I would say that is user experience coming first.
I will also add that I think users like my software products - one of which has had over 246,000 downloads in two years.
jagara1 3 weeks ago
@jagara1 You're an exception in that regard. I feel I am too. One of my favorite books is "Tog on Interface", which documents internal emails at Apple when the first Mac UI was being designed.
This is when humanity first decided: "What is a radio button? How does a combo box behave? Do we drag windows by the top or by the bottom? Should scollbars look just like trackbars?" They put thought into THESE standards, so today we can safely take it for granted our users understand them.
pburto 3 weeks ago
@jagara1 very true. I hope the future moves to better program files organization and all types of programs emphasize or were built on consistent structured frameworks. Its the only way code can be maintained and scaled w/o little difficulty over time.
fthis1234567 1 week ago
A little information is dangerous. This is very true for programming.
JackDander 2 months ago
The reason why there are so many xss/sql injection exploits in modern web services is because many of them are partly implemented by incompetent idiots by copypasting code from pastebin and mangling it till it seems to work. And guess what? Programming languages like PHP allow this because of their lax syntax, full dynamic typing (automagic conversion from gold to shit and back), overblown API full of trivial algos with buggy implementations.
ksym 2 months ago
@ksym
PHP is not programming language... its more like script
pufixas 1 month ago
@pufixas tell that to the PHP ass-for-brains.
ksym 1 month ago
@ksym
yeah..
pufixas 1 month ago
@pufixas
What does that mean?
PoorRichardSaunders 1 month ago
Programmers who do not have talent should go clean the toilets or something. Shitty programs that seem to work only cause shitstorm later on when integrated as part of a complex system.
At entry level companies should really work to kick out worthless losers who produce shitty software implementations.
And note that I am not a programmer. I do produce functional programs to do small things, but I would NEVER give those to the public as they are crap.
ksym 2 months ago
You're right, why have trained, insightful software engineers design a system when you can have script kiddies who know nothing about maintainability, correctness, or best practices, and produce code which can't be understood by anyone else.
In any case, having "fresh blood" become programmers is not the same thing as lowering the barriers to entry.
pedlezelnip 2 months ago
Pure programmers are obviously people who program in functionally pure programming languages.
Amethana 2 months ago
You don't get to say you're a "pure programmer" unless you program with a magnetized needle and a steady hand.
Nightdrone 2 months ago 46
@Nightdrone looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
Sneak91 1 month ago
@Nightdrone I find it more productive to program using butterflies... In emacs, of course.
123yano 4 weeks ago
"Being a newb is an important stage". I strongly agree with that. Beautifully put.
Leonnears 2 months ago
0:02 - 0:33 I laughed because I know people that talk like that. I like to lump them together with people who study IT but strongly dislike programming in general. They let the attitude get in the way of innocent hard work and exercise.
fingrid 3 months ago
7th
stevezes 3 months ago
this guy rules!
h4xww 4 months ago
You talk about problems that need solving... Tell me, which interesting problem can programming solve?
geekycode 5 months ago
@geekycode If you mean what i think you mean, then you should just exit from this video and read a book on programming in general or you could just not post something as stupid.
Programming can solve so many problems that it's not possible to name them all, or its not possible to think of how great programming can be, so im sure its possible to help towards global warming somehow or helping in health.
GnRJay08 4 months ago
@geekycode I apologize if u were genienly asking that question, it just seemed like u were arrogant towards programming.
GnRJay08 4 months ago
@geekycode You blithering idiot. You can't be serious?
hosalmeer 4 months ago
Comment removed
roleplayinggamegames 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@geekycode the ability to comment, nuff said
roleplayinggamegames 2 months ago
if only doctors followed your fantastic advice
utoostrict 6 months ago