Good, I like that you share this video, I wish success always Instead of using a big, heavy battery to store energy, the Torotrak system uses a spinning flywheel.
Nice Video That You Share , So Very Nice Thanks You Torotrak is a UK-based company that's developing a technology called a flywheel hybrid. Instead of using a big, heavy battery to store energy
I Really Like The Video From Your Torotrak is a UK-based company that's developing a technology called a flywheel hybrid. Instead of using a big, heavy battery to store energy
point is i came up with more or less the same idea when i was 13 years old lol.. i was very happy to see somebody with the resources to create such a system brought my idea into reality. =D
@matthias2986 I'll surprise you this car was made in 1950 in the Soviet Union, Soviet scientists and worked until 1960, then in 1963 a new flywheel super flywheel. я вас удивлю такая машина была сделана в 1950 году в советском союзе, советскими учеными и работала до 1960 года, потом в 1963 на новом маховике, супер маховике.
i came up with this idea when i was in middle school... no im serious i even wrote about my idea in science class paper back in 2001 (not sure when this was actually invented), none of my friends fully understood what i was talking about. i remember showing it to physics teacher later on in life and he was very interested by the idea. my concept of course was more crude, basically it would "downshift" using a CVT into a flywheel that would be used in stop and go traffic to add to fuel economy...
Yes batteries are heavy and not cheap. The future costs we expect. (replacement)The flywheel storage is a good idea. When I get around to it, ill show mine and see if someone hasnt already got a patent for it. Ive done some searching. Take advantage of the momentum.
@newage4energy I can see your point, but to store enough energy, the flywheel would have to be very heavy as well, which is acceptable in F1 as they have minimum weight requirements, but on a road car, I guess this may be a burden together with the original non-lightweight flywheel. Furthermore road cars stop occasionally, which is very different to the rapid accelration and decceleratoin of racecars. I guess that would cause problems on adapting flywheel hybrid to road cars ??
@ GnalrlGevs -- 1/2 mass times velocity squared is the formula for kinetic energy for translational motion. For rotational its 1/2 inertia times angular velocity squared and inertia for a disk is 1/2 MR^2. so overall should be 1/4 MR^2 (v^2/R^2) which simplifies to 1/4 M V^2.. i think
@Reuben961 It's similar, but not the same. The principle of converting kinetic energy from the vehicle via the wheels to the flywheel, and then back to the wheels is the same. The way this principle is used is different because the toy car is not being slowed by regen-braking like the real car is.
The KERS was developed by Torotrak, Flybrid and Xtrac for Williams F1. It was only later that Williams decided to start their own hybrid development division...
The KERS was developed by Torotrak, Flybrid and Xtrac for Williams F1. It was only later that Williams decided to start their own hybrid development division...
Ya... They are Interested the car company's are talking about it...!!!?? Common...
They are not interested in Water Powered cars!!? Today we know that 2 liter of HHO can drive a cycke for 100 km, and the cell is smaller than a 5000 MAmp. lipo Batteri and still they dont want to mention these kind of energies....!!? Greed, Corruption all the way, NEVER ENDING........!!!?
@Ebdan88 Or it could be because hydrogen fuel cells are ridiculously expensive for the power they generate, and even the most efficient batteries wear out and are dangerous to the environment for a very long time after disposal? Flywheels, while not totally viable as an independent power source, provide an interesting new way of saving power and most car companies would definitely be interested in that.
I can imagine a series hybrid flywheel car. Simply a small engine-->CVT-->spins a flywheel-->CVT -->wheels. The first CVT is controlled automatically based on engine load. The second CVT is controller by the accelerator pedal. Braking energy can be stored in the flywheel by modulating the second CVT ratio. Come to think of it I could build this myself.
It still manages to effectively recover energy under braking. Yes it's not 100 percent efficient, but that's not the whole point. The idea behind this system was to recover lost energy, not boost engine or drivetrain efficiency.
@myztic123 that is not completely correct...the flywheel is "connected" to the wheels under braking only and this acctually improves braking performance...then when the "boost" button is pressed the flywheel connects transfering its kenetic energy to the CVT which in turn sends it to the wheels
@myztic123 not exactly...the flywheel only connects during braking which actually improves braking efficiency...when the "boost" button is pressed it connects to the CVT which in turn sends its kenetic energy to the wheels
all auto's should have continual energy stored in a fly wheel, to make accelleration from a dead start less taxing on the engine. Gas or electric motors would both benefit, plus less pollution and longer battery life. The energy saved in stop and go traffic would be huge. So when does the average driver get this technology ? Plus gyroscopic stabilization for the vehicle, too Put a ring of magnets around the flywheel and recover current with a stationary coil wrapped around it's circumference.
also use the former and latter part of your comment to ..... make a pedal powered generator assist and wind power flywheel gen. assist. plus make the FLYWHEEL GYROSCOPIC so that itll hardly ever if ever run out of juice! what do u think?!
I agree with you but I'd think the gyroscopic properties would be an issue when the vehical turns as this mass flywheel would want to resist this wouldn't it?
Of course. But xxx777aaa's point, although irrational, was to try and maintain the flywheel's kinetic energy because when you corner, the flywheel will be forced to change direction and it will lose speed (although far too little as to be an issue) consequently.
Wont a Mechanical Flywheel KERS create some gyroscopic effects on the F1 cars, since they're so sensitive to any little adjustment, my uneduated guess would be like balancing a spinning top, or a basketball, on your finger, while trying to RUN through a twisty maze. If I'm wrong please feel free to correct me.
You are of course referring to the precession effect. Not much is revealed about the flywheel itself, but we know it is situated at the center gravity where it's forces factored against the g's are minimal. In fact, there are more displaced forces from the drivers weight than the KERS system. I also think the flywheel is like an epicyclic gear system where the planet gears counter act and normalize all forces.
There is a gyroscopic effect (technically it is called precession); the effect it has depends on the orientation of the flywheel, and it will introduce a moment of inertia (angular inertia) perpendicular to the plane of rotation of the fly wheel. This means it can be used to reduce pitch and dive (reduce shift of weight front and rear), or roll (reduce shift of weight side to side), or reduce yaw (reduce the ability of the car to turn left or right (this can be useful to counter oversteer)).
The amount of precession will depend on the mass of the flywheel, the flywheel's moment of inertia, and the angular velocity of the flywheel. In short the more energy stored in the flywheel, the more precession will have an effect.
Does anyone else think that the model the guy has brought along is false? I think it's deliberately obscure to mask the true operation of the system. Was just interested to see if anyone else can see weird things in the demo model....?
The model isn't false. But you're right in saying the demonstration is obscure - as this vid only demonstrates how a CVT works and fails to show kinetic energy recovery and input/output via a flywheel!
The design of the flywheel seems to have been withheld. And I'm not sure whether KERS actually uses a CVT,,, yet flybrid and xtrac say it does. Seems pointless to have two transmission systems in a vehicle don't you think.
yes i agree some what, where is the weel that holds the kenectic energy,
(flyweel). the lad is better off showing us a record live demo,ie motor,system and gear box. instead displaying a moddel that does not make any sence, i might be wrong but its not what i image as an flyweel. rob
1. Where's the flywheel, would it be where the guy's hand is? And if so, why demonstrate the flywheel driving the road wheel, rather than the road wheel spinning the flywheel end as would be when recovering energy under braking.
2. What's with the belt drive on the wheel axle from the central disc, AND the gear that can be seen on the right who also appears to be driving the wheel?? Planetary drive? Why?
In my head it works like this: ignore the wheel and axle......
cont'd... and imagine the KERS is driven by the car's wheels on the left hand side of the model (where the guy turns it by hand) and a flywheel on the right hand side, instead of those gears. Those rollers would move together, in "series" and not mirroring each other as in the model. That way the flywheel on the right can be doubly geared up or down. When the car is coasting, progressively gear the flywheel up (so it spins faster), braking the wheels and collecting energy.....
cont'd... When you want more power, gear the fast spinning flywheel progressively back down (i.e. change the roller angle smoothly) so that the torque due to decelerating the flywheel is being absorbed by the tyres against the track = more wheel horsepower.
You could have more power (for less time) or less power (for more time), by sweeping the angle of the rollers from limit to limit faster or slower, respectively.
sjgrundy, you are right. The model that he has brought along is a model of a transmission to drive the road wheels, it is not a model of the KERS system. It's very confusing!
When a Torotrak gearbox is used to drive the wheels, it has a planetary gearset to provide a 'geared neutral' so there is no clutch - at a certain ratio, the drive produces no torque at the wheels. That is what the model shows.
The KERS system is different and works like those friction drive toys we had as kids.
(continued) . . . So best to forget about the model. The KERS unit is simple: a flywheel running in a vacuum, geared to the car's transmission. Under braking, the car accelerates the flywheel and when required, the gearing is changed the other way so that the flywheel is helping to accelerate the car. No need for belts or planetary gears.
The beauty of the IVT is that this can be done smoothly and with infinite adjustment. A shame that no F1 team is yet using this system in 2009!
has F1 decided that the only KERS allowed will be flywheel, or are there going to be electrical (e.g. ultracap or something and electric motor) versions in F1?
That CVT is still a friction drive. I designed a 100% mechanical, constant engagement, variable rate transmission in '97, and there still aren't any patents that describe it. I'm pretty surprised none of these companies have stumbled upon this yet. At any rate, flywhees are cool. High-energy flywheels are something else.
well, i am not an engineer but based on my little knowledge on these matter, flywheel KERS seems to fit better in F1 cars. but battery KERS for road cars.
batteries can keep the road car running longer in cruise mode. flywheel wont but it can give the sudden burst of additional HP needed in racing.
I imagine that the power may be able to be applied over a longer period of time with less power per second, it would be helpful for taking off from a dead start--just like electric hybrids
Normal traffic can afford to brake smoothly, to store braking energy efficiently. In racing this is a waste of time (as it is for some taxi drivers). Also, racing cars never slow down to (almost) zero, and never stop for minutes, as normal traffic does. So a fast storage and retrieval mechanism, perfect for racing, need not be ideal for everyday usage. So the best suitable solution for either situation could be different. For them it's a matter of seconds (at most), for us it can be minutes.
That's right.. that's the most important part. How the stored energy of a spinning flywheel is delivered to the drive train is the tricky bit! Anyone can connect up a flywheel and spin it up to speed.. it's how you deliver the power to the wheels is what matters... a CVT system is the only way to control the variable speed in the flywheel.. as it's used it slows down but must continue to drive the draive train at the same rate.
Kinetic - electrical - chemical - electrical - kinetic is what is needs to do with an electric one (brakes to electricity to the batteries to electricity to the electric engine)
If it is 90% efficient at each change it winds up 65.6% efficent overall, and i would guess it is worse than 90% at each change
Not necessarily - the system is compact enough to work in tandem with diesel-electric battery hybrid system alongside regenerative braking. Electric motors at their least efficient at low RPM so the flywheel could act as a turbo charger to improve electric economy for low RPM. The compact nature means that four of these systems could be mounted for each wheel. There are so many ideas - its a really exciting time to be an automotive engineer right now!!!
Is that George Bush
UBConquered 3 days ago
Steady I Really Like This Video Instead of using a big, heavy battery to store energy, the Torotrak system uses a spinning flywheel.
lupabuatchannel 3 weeks ago
Good, I like that you share this video, I wish success always Instead of using a big, heavy battery to store energy, the Torotrak system uses a spinning flywheel.
cenedywong 3 weeks ago
Nice Video That You Share , So Very Nice Thanks You Torotrak is a UK-based company that's developing a technology called a flywheel hybrid. Instead of using a big, heavy battery to store energy
melisantika 3 weeks ago
I Really Like The Video From Your Torotrak is a UK-based company that's developing a technology called a flywheel hybrid. Instead of using a big, heavy battery to store energy
pemburuiklan 3 weeks ago
Your Video Is Very Useful Sharing Torotrak is a UK-based company that's developing a technology called a flywheel hybrid
anakmudajaman 3 weeks ago
NASA uses flywheels for power generation on some long range probes and satellites.
The International Space station stores power generated by the solar cells with flywheels.
outpostprime 1 month ago
i dont get it
gogetitlady 1 month ago
point is i came up with more or less the same idea when i was 13 years old lol.. i was very happy to see somebody with the resources to create such a system brought my idea into reality. =D
matthias2986 2 months ago
@matthias2986 I'll surprise you this car was made in 1950 in the Soviet Union, Soviet scientists and worked until 1960, then in 1963 a new flywheel super flywheel. я вас удивлю такая машина была сделана в 1950 году в советском союзе, советскими учеными и работала до 1960 года, потом в 1963 на новом маховике, супер маховике.
AndreiMikhailovich 1 month ago
i came up with this idea when i was in middle school... no im serious i even wrote about my idea in science class paper back in 2001 (not sure when this was actually invented), none of my friends fully understood what i was talking about. i remember showing it to physics teacher later on in life and he was very interested by the idea. my concept of course was more crude, basically it would "downshift" using a CVT into a flywheel that would be used in stop and go traffic to add to fuel economy...
matthias2986 2 months ago
I see this working in racing, not normal use
RW1LD 2 months ago
This is shady. This guy (both of them actually) should be selling Sham-Wows.
MonogrammedMarxist 4 months ago
OK, 70% efficient, but I want to see this 80hp flywheel.
kokopelli314 4 months ago
Really Cool!
ufoengines 6 months ago
frikken smart
wtfzweb 6 months ago
Thanks. Brake recovery without batteries! So.. When?
cyberpine 6 months ago
seemes like a big pain in the ass to me
memcu30 7 months ago
Wouldn't the gyroscopic effect make the car harder to turn?
iamahipo1 7 months ago
@iamahipo1 There are ways to counter that.
SubTachyon 7 months ago
@iamahipo1 yes, there's got to be a counter rotation of a similar flywheel somewhere... (I guess :P)
1992chinna 7 months ago
the idear is brilliant but the F1 teams decided to turn it down ,i think that it had something to with the complex rules in F1 .
oobuc5 7 months ago
Yes batteries are heavy and not cheap. The future costs we expect. (replacement)The flywheel storage is a good idea. When I get around to it, ill show mine and see if someone hasnt already got a patent for it. Ive done some searching. Take advantage of the momentum.
newage4energy 8 months ago
@newage4energy I can see your point, but to store enough energy, the flywheel would have to be very heavy as well, which is acceptable in F1 as they have minimum weight requirements, but on a road car, I guess this may be a burden together with the original non-lightweight flywheel. Furthermore road cars stop occasionally, which is very different to the rapid accelration and decceleratoin of racecars. I guess that would cause problems on adapting flywheel hybrid to road cars ??
Douglas6250 7 months ago
How about flywheels for cycles. Its a real strain taking off from lights all the time.
js12347777 8 months ago
Does this help
youtube.com/watch?v=hgl7IBmUj8o
mjdurack 10 months ago
@ GnalrlGevs -- 1/2 mass times velocity squared is the formula for kinetic energy for translational motion. For rotational its 1/2 inertia times angular velocity squared and inertia for a disk is 1/2 MR^2. so overall should be 1/4 MR^2 (v^2/R^2) which simplifies to 1/4 M V^2.. i think
jadedmc59601 11 months ago
@jadedmc59601
Yeah I know what you mean ... :S
jcdatsme123 10 months ago
half mass times velocity squared!!! i hope the engineers at torotrak know the equation.
GnarlGevs 11 months ago
The host is either bloody excited about the technology or just bloody rude. LET THE GUEST SPEAK!!!
Boobdepot1977 11 months ago
Reminded me of that super hi-tech inimitable (as of today) flywheel found by archaeologists in Egypt.
akko439 1 year ago
so is this the same as some toy cars has? u push it forwards a few times and then let it go and it drives by iteself?
Reuben961 1 year ago
@Reuben961 It's similar, but not the same. The principle of converting kinetic energy from the vehicle via the wheels to the flywheel, and then back to the wheels is the same. The way this principle is used is different because the toy car is not being slowed by regen-braking like the real car is.
SIMKINETICS 1 year ago
love to see this on a piaggio mp3 hrbrid
garyshouse305 1 year ago
When was the patent started?
three0234 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@WhatDaThing
The KERS was developed by Torotrak, Flybrid and Xtrac for Williams F1. It was only later that Williams decided to start their own hybrid development division...
varunlakshman 1 year ago
@WhatDaThing
The KERS was developed by Torotrak, Flybrid and Xtrac for Williams F1. It was only later that Williams decided to start their own hybrid development division...
varunlakshman 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
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lukekroll 1 year ago
I still don't get how the electric motor can work with the engine transmission so well that it becomes efficient.
heartlessvietboy 1 year ago
stupid reporter!!!
pibitchica 1 year ago
but the flywheel wont spin forever, right? i mean it stores energy but it will be availiable only for a few seconds, i guess
panoulis20 1 year ago
You want beleave, but it sounds like dr. Gulia job, made more than 40 yeard ago in USSR))) so innovative))))
babalaqueen 1 year ago
I hope someone builds a cheap flywheel battery to replace today's ancient batteries.
Hesam0000 1 year ago
sounds like it's gonna need some high class bearings
MrNik1001 1 year ago
Ya... They are Interested the car company's are talking about it...!!!?? Common...
They are not interested in Water Powered cars!!? Today we know that 2 liter of HHO can drive a cycke for 100 km, and the cell is smaller than a 5000 MAmp. lipo Batteri and still they dont want to mention these kind of energies....!!? Greed, Corruption all the way, NEVER ENDING........!!!?
Ebdan88 1 year ago
@Ebdan88 Or it could be because hydrogen fuel cells are ridiculously expensive for the power they generate, and even the most efficient batteries wear out and are dangerous to the environment for a very long time after disposal? Flywheels, while not totally viable as an independent power source, provide an interesting new way of saving power and most car companies would definitely be interested in that.
nasakev 1 year ago
Duh.. OLD news.
gorgeousdzastr 1 year ago
I Invented a similar device in 2002; only that part is now one with several other mutually beneficial devices.
merlinlicutas 1 year ago
@merlinlicutas Nobody gives a shit, Mr. "inventor"
JTMarlin8 1 year ago
0:41 haha he said squirt
juliandeleener 1 year ago
@juliandeleener FUCK YOU
JTMarlin8 1 year ago
I can imagine a series hybrid flywheel car. Simply a small engine-->CVT-->spins a flywheel-->CVT -->wheels. The first CVT is controlled automatically based on engine load. The second CVT is controller by the accelerator pedal. Braking energy can be stored in the flywheel by modulating the second CVT ratio. Come to think of it I could build this myself.
ronmann606 2 years ago
Wow, This video has the most civilized and intelligent comments ever in YouTube.
I like it.
Ejele1000 2 years ago 3
isn't the mass of the flywheel working against energy efficiency?
myztic123 2 years ago
It still manages to effectively recover energy under braking. Yes it's not 100 percent efficient, but that's not the whole point. The idea behind this system was to recover lost energy, not boost engine or drivetrain efficiency.
corotor12345 2 years ago
@myztic123 that is not completely correct...the flywheel is "connected" to the wheels under braking only and this acctually improves braking performance...then when the "boost" button is pressed the flywheel connects transfering its kenetic energy to the CVT which in turn sends it to the wheels
EVOLUTIONVIIIMRFQ400 1 year ago
@myztic123 not exactly...the flywheel only connects during braking which actually improves braking efficiency...when the "boost" button is pressed it connects to the CVT which in turn sends its kenetic energy to the wheels
EVOLUTIONVIIIMRFQ400 1 year ago
it ended out working and being use in f1 in 2009
but has teething problems namely snatching the bad wheel
vikkiandbradley07 2 years ago
lol
djevlendk 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
sounds like fucking QVC!
sparkyindahouse 2 years ago
It sounds too much like marketing and not enough like top gear.
NoahLDiamond 2 years ago
all auto's should have continual energy stored in a fly wheel, to make accelleration from a dead start less taxing on the engine. Gas or electric motors would both benefit, plus less pollution and longer battery life. The energy saved in stop and go traffic would be huge. So when does the average driver get this technology ? Plus gyroscopic stabilization for the vehicle, too Put a ring of magnets around the flywheel and recover current with a stationary coil wrapped around it's circumference.
docfret 2 years ago 6
docfret is absolutely correct...flywheel hybrids are the way to go...the answer is in the numbers but it also just makes sense
agostomi 2 years ago
thats an interesting idea
tetranoob 2 years ago
@tetranoob
It has been an interesting idea for quite a while now.
corotor12345 2 years ago
also use the former and latter part of your comment to ..... make a pedal powered generator assist and wind power flywheel gen. assist. plus make the FLYWHEEL GYROSCOPIC so that itll hardly ever if ever run out of juice! what do u think?!
xxx777aaa 2 years ago
I agree with you but I'd think the gyroscopic properties would be an issue when the vehical turns as this mass flywheel would want to resist this wouldn't it?
1jks 2 years ago
Of course. But xxx777aaa's point, although irrational, was to try and maintain the flywheel's kinetic energy because when you corner, the flywheel will be forced to change direction and it will lose speed (although far too little as to be an issue) consequently.
corotor12345 2 years ago
@1jks
That's simple to solve, simply mount the flywheel so its central axis is upright.
joeslimon 1 year ago
This is very informative but... 1:55 what is wrong with this man!
ArashixArashi 2 years ago 37
This comment has received too many negative votes show
OMG the American is EXTREMELY eccentric. he has such an annoying voice!!!
dshnig 2 years ago
i no ay what a douche bag they guy is
AnThOnYrox8 2 years ago
I dont think the efficiency numbers he states are correct
it would be nice if it works tho
GroovyVideo2 2 years ago
Wont a Mechanical Flywheel KERS create some gyroscopic effects on the F1 cars, since they're so sensitive to any little adjustment, my uneduated guess would be like balancing a spinning top, or a basketball, on your finger, while trying to RUN through a twisty maze. If I'm wrong please feel free to correct me.
Aceofspeed 2 years ago
You are of course referring to the precession effect. Not much is revealed about the flywheel itself, but we know it is situated at the center gravity where it's forces factored against the g's are minimal. In fact, there are more displaced forces from the drivers weight than the KERS system. I also think the flywheel is like an epicyclic gear system where the planet gears counter act and normalize all forces.
sirswift23 2 years ago
There is a gyroscopic effect (technically it is called precession); the effect it has depends on the orientation of the flywheel, and it will introduce a moment of inertia (angular inertia) perpendicular to the plane of rotation of the fly wheel. This means it can be used to reduce pitch and dive (reduce shift of weight front and rear), or roll (reduce shift of weight side to side), or reduce yaw (reduce the ability of the car to turn left or right (this can be useful to counter oversteer)).
TankEnMate 2 years ago 3
The amount of precession will depend on the mass of the flywheel, the flywheel's moment of inertia, and the angular velocity of the flywheel. In short the more energy stored in the flywheel, the more precession will have an effect.
TankEnMate 2 years ago
Does anyone else think that the model the guy has brought along is false? I think it's deliberately obscure to mask the true operation of the system. Was just interested to see if anyone else can see weird things in the demo model....?
sjgrundy 2 years ago
The model isn't false. But you're right in saying the demonstration is obscure - as this vid only demonstrates how a CVT works and fails to show kinetic energy recovery and input/output via a flywheel!
The design of the flywheel seems to have been withheld. And I'm not sure whether KERS actually uses a CVT,,, yet flybrid and xtrac say it does. Seems pointless to have two transmission systems in a vehicle don't you think.
sirswift23 2 years ago
yes i agree some what, where is the weel that holds the kenectic energy,
(flyweel). the lad is better off showing us a record live demo,ie motor,system and gear box. instead displaying a moddel that does not make any sence, i might be wrong but its not what i image as an flyweel. rob
highrateleft 2 years ago
Ja, I'm full of questions.
1. Where's the flywheel, would it be where the guy's hand is? And if so, why demonstrate the flywheel driving the road wheel, rather than the road wheel spinning the flywheel end as would be when recovering energy under braking.
2. What's with the belt drive on the wheel axle from the central disc, AND the gear that can be seen on the right who also appears to be driving the wheel?? Planetary drive? Why?
In my head it works like this: ignore the wheel and axle......
sjgrundy 2 years ago
cont'd... and imagine the KERS is driven by the car's wheels on the left hand side of the model (where the guy turns it by hand) and a flywheel on the right hand side, instead of those gears. Those rollers would move together, in "series" and not mirroring each other as in the model. That way the flywheel on the right can be doubly geared up or down. When the car is coasting, progressively gear the flywheel up (so it spins faster), braking the wheels and collecting energy.....
sjgrundy 2 years ago
cont'd... When you want more power, gear the fast spinning flywheel progressively back down (i.e. change the roller angle smoothly) so that the torque due to decelerating the flywheel is being absorbed by the tyres against the track = more wheel horsepower.
You could have more power (for less time) or less power (for more time), by sweeping the angle of the rollers from limit to limit faster or slower, respectively.
sjgrundy 2 years ago
sjgrundy, you are right. The model that he has brought along is a model of a transmission to drive the road wheels, it is not a model of the KERS system. It's very confusing!
When a Torotrak gearbox is used to drive the wheels, it has a planetary gearset to provide a 'geared neutral' so there is no clutch - at a certain ratio, the drive produces no torque at the wheels. That is what the model shows.
The KERS system is different and works like those friction drive toys we had as kids.
learninggrid 2 years ago
(continued) . . . So best to forget about the model. The KERS unit is simple: a flywheel running in a vacuum, geared to the car's transmission. Under braking, the car accelerates the flywheel and when required, the gearing is changed the other way so that the flywheel is helping to accelerate the car. No need for belts or planetary gears.
The beauty of the IVT is that this can be done smoothly and with infinite adjustment. A shame that no F1 team is yet using this system in 2009!
learninggrid 2 years ago
Why is the American so hyperactive, compared to the Brit? Cultural difference, stimulant use (also cultural), or just a coincidence?
flywatch 2 years ago
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flywatch 2 years ago
Comment removed
flywatch 2 years ago
interesting....
t850 2 years ago
oh shit... the guy said mechanical or electrical will be allowed.. sorry... I take back my question.
trident3b 3 years ago
has F1 decided that the only KERS allowed will be flywheel, or are there going to be electrical (e.g. ultracap or something and electric motor) versions in F1?
trident3b 3 years ago
That CVT is still a friction drive. I designed a 100% mechanical, constant engagement, variable rate transmission in '97, and there still aren't any patents that describe it. I'm pretty surprised none of these companies have stumbled upon this yet. At any rate, flywhees are cool. High-energy flywheels are something else.
flyingsuperpetis 3 years ago
Why don't you file a patent then?
oisiaa 3 years ago
WILLIAMS are using it.
sidnyeli1 3 years ago
NASCAR and Indy car race commentators: "They're going left..."
Two and a half hours later, "...They're STILL going LEFT..."
Merkin forms of car racing are a fast race to slow retardation.
DancingSpiderman 3 years ago 2
from what i gather - the F1 cars are using battery systems.
So i guess this F1 flywheel technology didn't pan out in the end.
roidroid 3 years ago
well, i am not an engineer but based on my little knowledge on these matter, flywheel KERS seems to fit better in F1 cars. but battery KERS for road cars.
batteries can keep the road car running longer in cruise mode. flywheel wont but it can give the sudden burst of additional HP needed in racing.
am i right?
fourtheboys96 3 years ago
I imagine that the power may be able to be applied over a longer period of time with less power per second, it would be helpful for taking off from a dead start--just like electric hybrids
Bearsir 3 years ago 2
Normal traffic can afford to brake smoothly, to store braking energy efficiently. In racing this is a waste of time (as it is for some taxi drivers). Also, racing cars never slow down to (almost) zero, and never stop for minutes, as normal traffic does. So a fast storage and retrieval mechanism, perfect for racing, need not be ideal for everyday usage. So the best suitable solution for either situation could be different. For them it's a matter of seconds (at most), for us it can be minutes.
flywatch 2 years ago
"Well, the rules are, 400 kilojoules of energy, per lap."
"Put that in English man!"
Is the host of this show a fucking idiot? Did he even graduate from high school?
clustro2 3 years ago
No.
phranklyn 3 years ago
i think he wanted the guy to put into english for his audience that didn't graduate highschool not for himself
LulJam 2 years ago 10
interesting stuff but the bloke has an annoying voice
enyap88 3 years ago
Yeah American's can be like that!
TeamYankee2 3 years ago
Yes.
phranklyn 3 years ago
Reporter banguela!!! lol lol
vipersharer 3 years ago
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this video just show us a CVT in action, not a flywheel energy storage device?
scrumdiddly 3 years ago 3
That's right.. that's the most important part. How the stored energy of a spinning flywheel is delivered to the drive train is the tricky bit! Anyone can connect up a flywheel and spin it up to speed.. it's how you deliver the power to the wheels is what matters... a CVT system is the only way to control the variable speed in the flywheel.. as it's used it slows down but must continue to drive the draive train at the same rate.
TeamYankee2 3 years ago
- Generators/Batteries/Motors electric system efficiency (ie: mechanical-electrical-chemical) is only 31% - 34%
LOLWUT?
I don't believe you. The Generators/Batteries/Motors electrical system is more efficient than that.
roidroid 3 years ago
Is it?
Kinetic - electrical - chemical - electrical - kinetic is what is needs to do with an electric one (brakes to electricity to the batteries to electricity to the electric engine)
If it is 90% efficient at each change it winds up 65.6% efficent overall, and i would guess it is worse than 90% at each change
80% at each change gives ~41%
Roundy1161 3 years ago 2
Kills all current battery hybrids! Flybrid FTW!!!
brinaaaaaaa 3 years ago
Not necessarily - the system is compact enough to work in tandem with diesel-electric battery hybrid system alongside regenerative braking. Electric motors at their least efficient at low RPM so the flywheel could act as a turbo charger to improve electric economy for low RPM. The compact nature means that four of these systems could be mounted for each wheel. There are so many ideas - its a really exciting time to be an automotive engineer right now!!!
TheSaintST1 3 years ago 2
Diesel-electric = similar to those used in trains and the Chevy Volt.
TheSaintST1 3 years ago
AFS Trinity developed this years ago and nobody took it up. This is just a stop gap until the oil runs out.
Odziz 3 years ago