Rosalyn Tureck plays J.S. Bach (vaimusic.com)

[JOlsson01]

I now know why Angela Hewitt refers to Rosalyn Tureck as one the great Bach interpreters.

[goldberg72]

silenziooooooooooo

[mandctessman]

Sublime - one of her teachers, Gavin Williamson, was a dear friend many years ago. He had been a pupil of Wanda Landowska, and so bequeathed to Tureck, the deep and passionate resonance of Bach's counterpoint; something which Glenn Gould arguably mastered, although sometimes re-mastered in his own image!

[tachuman]

It is such simple music in one way but magic in its effect on you - and she is a really sensitive player. Absolutely beautiful!

[Mralibabarooibakkie]

@tachuman I think she is the best ever

[gdellaporta]

yourforte - Tureck seems to capture Bach's voice honestly; Gould seems always to try to claim the music as his own. I love Tureck's performance here.

I agree with you can you tell me more about her and her Bach.

Giorgio

[meats0]

@gdellaporta Nothing against Roselyn Tureck because I feel she is a remarkable pianist, but I believe Gould is unmatched when it comes to Bach. Even Sviatoslav Richter said after he saw him perform in Moscow "I could play Bach as good as Gould, but I'd have to practice 12 hours a day." Gould would also never practice. He had several rigorous finger exercises that he invented himself that he would play through, but he would only ever study a piece of music before banging it out flawlessly.

[FallingLikeAlice]

Everytime I listen to this I feel transported to a state of complete relaxion.

Utterly sublime!

[antonio97514]

wonderful lady!a true bach...from the heaven.

[mclaire12]

Thank you so much. Bach is everything to me

mclaire12

[Arrieta459]

IMO, she's the best Bach player that the piano world has given us.

[TheWisemonkey8]

Somthing very special about this wonderful lady... i may have to purchase the DVD. Wonderful!!!

[clsclgtrst]

Tureck's technical prowess and her brilliant sensitivity are sustained in this performance through the duration of each glorious note. Bravo Tureck! Her playing was/is a profound gift to us. I am deeply moved by her music.

[katkula]

I just heard Anderszewski's Bach and it's just a typical "very good student playing" compared to this divinity.

[lsbrother]

Lovely playing

I've just read an interview with her in Else Mach's book. There she states her ease of memorising - particularly Bach - so I was surprised to see her using a score here for a work she must have played dozens of times. Did she usually do this or was it more towards the end of her career?

[yourforte]

Tureck seems to capture Bach's voice honestly; Gould seems always to try to claim the music as his own. I love Tureck's performance here.

[sshare]

I was lucky to see her perform in the mid-1980's--she did the Goldberg Variations twice in one day, first on piano and then harpsichord (which is the one I saw). I was a little disappointed that she skipped most of the repeats but overall was impressed w/ her playing. Maybe she was tired from the first performance...

[freeqwerqwer]

She is the only who plays Bach with a spirit of divinity. Others, such as Gould, play Bach pretty secularly..

[polymath7]

Flawless.

[vincik80]

tra i più grandi interpreti di Bach... sfrutta tutte le potenzialità timbriche, dinamiche e polifoniche del pianoforte conservando rigore di stile e allo stesso tempo immediata comunicativa...... grande tureck.....

[goldberg72]

hai capito tutto

[WiseMonki]

its magical... this woman holds me in the palm of her hand.

[ragtimemarkbirnbaum]

gould admitted his 'only' influence on his bach playing was roslyn tureck.

thx

[SiouxPianist]

Gould doesn't even compare.

[billyguns2]

I quite agree; Gould's tone has always seemed "clattery" and unmusical to me. Here we have a gorgeous singing line and beautiful tone; this is music! I had no idea this lady was performing at this late date; I thought she was prominent on the 1950s.

[polymath7]

It seems to me, that in a universe that produced Glenn Gould, Rosalyn Tureck is one of only two or three others whose interpretations of Bach's keyboard music are worth even bothering to listen to (Schiff and Perahia are not among them).

[blacktiger444]

Absolutely dreadful. I'm against women playing Bach in general, but Romantic playing is just unacceptable - it's a bad habit to Romanticize Bach and should be uniformly condemned by all discerning people with taste.

[bisbigliandosciolto]

Presumably you're also against women having the vote...

[Lanark8]

Ha!

[paulostroff99]

One of the finest Bach interpreters. She was certainly in the class of- the greatest-Gould"

[nostromissimo]

I hate this who is better than who nonsense. Interesting though that Glenn Gould cited her as his one and only influence.

[goldberg72]

rosalyn is my life!tancks tancks

[kreutzo1]

the one who said she is better than Gould must be absolutely insane!

[ganymed45]

she is so much better than glenn gould.!!

sadly that is not as known to the public

[kjw163]

Sorry, but I find this pianist to very boring. Near lifeless. I know Gould wasn't perfect, but he always had something interesting to say about waht he was playing. This gal could cure insomnia.

[kjw163]

DAMN, this gal's playing very boring. That's the most deadly sounding aria I've ever heard. Arghh. Snooze away. Want to hear some life in that? Try Mr. Gould.

[kjw163]

Better than Gould? What the hell have you been smoking!? There's such a thing as being TOO pure in your performance, and this is an example of that. Dreadful.

[Lillars]

"What the hell have you been smoking!? "

On se demande !

[classicalmusic1mzrt]

wow! I like the way each note is so crystal clear. :-0

[ginastera403]

Where are the variations?

[fmk3141]

Tureck played Bach in such a wonderful way. She once said 'the medium is not the message' and I really agree. She does not get confused or distracted by "historical authenticity", but rather plays through deep listening. For a Bach lover like me, it's always a joy to hear her recordings. Thanks Ros!! ;)

[goldberg72]

assolutmente la piu grande..sentite i triili!!!

[abath07]

What a master of elastic timing. Tureck creates a sublime expression of spiritual longing and loneliness with Bach's music.

[freeqwerqwer]

This is real music making. Such a gem of a performance where the true beauty of baroque music is finally revealed. Tureck is a true artist.  She plays with full of lyrical romanticism, but always adhering to the baroque stoic style and form. Glen Gould plays this piece as if playing with marching toy soldiers but Rosalyn Tureck plays this piece as if in a stately walk through a garden.

[cello4ever]

I wouldn't criticise Glenn Gould, as his interpretation also brings out the architecture in this piece. He was never quite a Romantic like Rosalyn Tureck.

[marimbakis]

Awfull comments, what the hell, they don t know rosalyn tureck, she is a genius. I think most of the people has no culture at all.

[blacktiger444]

"High Priestess of Bach"? Oh please. I shall post a video of MYSELF playing this aria which will sound better than her tripe.

[Pianowrestler]

Lay it on thick! Yes, you should do that, but don't forget to play also the 30 variations, as well as the complete "Clavieruebung" and the WTC I and II, like this "vulgar" woman did, who is highly acclaimed for her Bach all over the world.

If I may ask, who do you think plays Bach acceptable, besides yourself?

[smithsherman]

I find this playing touching,which for me is the

most important thing...however it is not interesting.

She doesn't vary her beat placement.She never

contrasts the hands against each other.Also her

beautiful rallentandi and tenuti are diminished

by her lack of any accelerando.I can't get over

how modern classical musicians try to get through

a career without accelerando.Even the ornaments

lack it.

[Pianowrestler]

Is that your recipe for all styles? Because you used exactly the same "Rhetorical devices" to slate Richter's performance of Schumann.

As alra1975 pointed out in his comments, a Baroque rubato cannot be substitued with the same Romantic definition. With Baroque, modern rules don't work; ornaments can't be played the same way on an instrument with piano and forte. She's exploring every single note and that's acceptable.

[Pianowrestler]

You should check out alra's post of Bach pieces played by Ton Koopman, for a true Baroque freedom and great virtuosity...

[smithsherman]

My Friend,The notion that 1 must approach different

composers & periods with different musicality is

a 20th century 1.Not held by the previous centuries.

This is the mythful rewriting of musical history

by the late 19th century Anti-Expressive Conser-

vatory Pedants & was adopted as Gospel by the 20th

century.I haven't been able to find a single performer

whether Balbastre in the 1790s on cylinder or

Reinecke on Edison who made this distinction.

[Pianowrestler]

Well, quite happy to be a product of the 20th century in this case...go ahead my friend, play Bach like Schumann, Schumann like Bach, Chopin like Brahms, Debussy like Mozart, Beethoven like Wagner, turn it into an "Einheidswurst" - now that's what I call...not interesting.

[smithsherman]

Hello my friend,It's interesting that by insisting that all music be treated by performers as something to which they should bring every rhetorical device...

you regard as "uninteresting"I regard it as caring,

respectful,and expressive.Why should Bach be made

dry just to have a false dinstinction with other

periods of instrumentalism?

[Pianowrestler]

To create your own "personal" Bach as a pianist, it's necessary to study historical performance practise, including organ, harpsichord, clavichord, old temperaments as well as general Baroque characteristics. That not a matter of "dry"ness, but of enriching your interpretative powers.

Every period has different rhetorical devices...the "recipe" is different every time...

[smithsherman]

Dear Friend,I couldn't agree with you more.But if you

mean to take this truth & say that some repertoires

should be expressive or not,mechanistic or not.

There I don't agree.The 12 notes still must be

played accurately,beautifully no matter what...

Equally so,never should the structure

unfold predictably,never should a phrase lack heir-

archy,everything should be sung always,& no

rhythm should ever approximate "metronomism".

[Pianowrestler]

Just like love varies at a scale from almost zero (pure lust) to infinite (love of god), the amount of expressiveness/rhythm in music also varies strongly: it depends on the character of the piece and the time in which it was written. In Ravel there should be a certain emotional coolness, and he wanted to have a mechanical conductor for his "Bolero" to make sure that there were no changes of tempo at all!

[Pianowrestler]

As for "play everything as beautiful as you can", I'm not quite sure: there are certain places in Beethoven's or Liszt's pianomusic that are written in an almost brutal, savage way, and should be played accordingly...

[smithsherman]

No,I am not talking of the expression being beautiful

always...then it wouldn't be expression at all..but that when one plays physical notes,one

tries to achieve a beautiful,"expressive"effect

for the context.If the context is brutal,then a

beautiful note is a monstrous sounding one.

[smithsherman]

This is a beautiful love analogy.I thought we were

talking of pre-modernist music...I.E.1600-1890.

Of course modern shouldn't be beautiful...no it

has to be ugly to correctly represent it's anti-

human goals.Anyway back to love...whatever it is

it has to be conveyed extremely expressively...

Music exists for our minds not the other way around!

[Pianowrestler]

Reminds me of the paintings of Egon Schiele: the nudes are revolting and repelling, but at the same time full of beauty and expressive!

But back to Bach: who do you think plays it convincingly on piano? Would that be somebody like Horszowski?

[smithsherman]

My Friend...Schiele is a beautiful Example of my

thought.On Bach...Pachmann's Andante? from the Italian

Concerto.Gould on Youtube,Partita #6 3 of 3(the

1st half.Joachim's Bach.Some moments in Casals...

Huberman in the B minor partita.On Horszowski

I last heard him at my teacher's house 20 years ago..

so i can't remember.Thoughts?

[Pianowrestler]

I agree with your choise! I would add Edwin Fischer, Gustav Leonhardt on organ, and that lady I was talking about, Eunice Norton. And I'd say a fellow named S. Richter, but I'm sure you will not agree!

As for Gould, I'm surprised that you mention him...isn't he a bit too academical for your taste?

[smithsherman]

I forgot Richter.Ironically it was his preludes &

fugues that were some of his most romantic performances.Go Figure?!?I love Fischer,but have always been angry with him 4 playing Bach less

expressively than his Schubert.I punish his

memory by exalting him while omitting his B...

Gould was a Bach schizophrenic.1 moment like

Pachmann,the next like Kirkpatrick!Richter's

r the best modern.

[LVB1770]

Hey smithsherman,

We meet again. Have you heard the Perahia recording?

What do you think of him? Oddly enough I can hear some

edits on that CD. The engineer must had some bad sessions.

[smithsherman]

Dear LVB,I don't like Perahia's playing because of

his conforming to modernist revisions of historic

rhetoric and it's resultant expressive vapidity.But if U have a video here U want to

compare notes on,let me know.Recording is a beautiful nightmare.Nobody gets it right.I'm sure it's Perahia

who had the "human" sessions.

[LVB1770]

Thanks smithsherman,

Have you heard Perahia's Rachmaninoff on you tube?

Recording is a beautiful nightmare! I have been working with a composer in my area and I played drums on the entire project and in is still in the finishing

stages after 3 plus years. Recording is the easy part.

It's the mixing and editing that are the horrible nightmare! Thanks again.

[smithsherman]

Dear LVB,I listened to 4 etudes by Perahia-Rachmaninoff.Scale 1-10 PT for physical technique

IT for interpretive technique.

Etude #2 in C...9.4 PT...6 IT

Etude ? in a...9.2 PT...3 IT

Etude #5 in eb..9.5 PT...6.5IT

Etude #9 in D...9.2 PT...4.5IT

On the whole,much better than his "classical" stuff.

Thoughts?

[LVB1770]

Hey smithsherman,

I have the laser disc of that performance and it sounds way better than most DVD's because of the lack of audio compression. Unfortunately, this is around the time he injured himself and I don't believe he is playing Rachmaninoff anymore. Have you heard his Beethoven? Thoughts? I like his Tempest.

[smithsherman]

Dear LVB,May I suggest that what has made all of this

recording & editing hell,is R unquestioning acceptance of a mechanized perfection.This winter

when I record,I will not edit small

errors.The feel is 2 important.If I appear

vulnerable,my defence shall be the feeling.

[LVB1770]

Thanks smithsherman but I don't quite understand what you mean. Can you elaborate? I don't edit any of my piano recordings and don't plan to in the future either. I was referring to the editing of my upcoming CD of my drumming and to the general editing of music today. I sometimes feel all the editing done these days can take away from real music making. Some musicians are obsessed with over editing there performances. Thoughts?

[smithsherman]

Dear LVB,Unfortunately I totally agree with you about real music-making!(Smile)What I said,is that our unquestioning acceptance of the need for classical recordings to be note perfect instead of spirit perfect is what creates this hell & a lot of vapidity as well.Regards

[LVB1770]

I understand you now smithsherman! Thanks. I am much more inspired by playing that is in touch with the spiritual then the note perfect uninspired technically gymnastic and sometimes boring playing of some of today's artists.

[blacktiger444]

What awful playing. Childish, careless rhythm, absurd realisation of ornaments and ridiculous accentuation. Simply vulgar. Such disrespect to Bach. Confirms resoundingly the truth that women are such rubbish baroque pianists. Refer also Angela Hewitt and Wanda Landowska.

[pianoboyo]

Yes Im aware of Turecks cult status..I have read one of her books and indeed attened a masterclass by her on Bach's Goldbergs variations.

Bach may not be Rachmaninov...but Music is music - good, bad or ugly!

[Pianowrestler]

That's interesting! Could you describe how she sounded, what were her ideas on the GVs and why isn't it to your taste?

I must say, since I now the recording of Eunice Norton (pupil of Schnabel and Matthay) of this piece, somehow I lost interest in T.'s interpretation a bit. N. plays it vivid, virtuosic but with a great full sound and a wonderful singing tone.

[poisonalien]

have to agree with pianoboyo, that Tureck's "Sounding" is not that good... Full tone, doesn't mean nice tone.

To those who understand more 'bout "sound" and "tone", Tureck is just a wise pianist on the 2nd line. here, no BACH thing, no structure or anylize thing, just the TONE.

[Pianowrestler]

Well, that's a bit harsh, and besides very difficult to judge from this kind of recording.

If you think that this pianist didn't analyze the structure of Bach's pieces, you're quite wrong.

A singing tone is a very important quality for interpreting Bach.

Btw pianoboyo never wrote that T.'s sound in not that good, in fact I'm still curious why he dislikes her playing...

[pianoboyo]

All playing IS questionable. Art is not an exact science..there are a miriad of ways in which we can interpret the same phrase never mind composition. Art is highly subjective. Its undeniable Turek plays with great 'Art' here but whether its historically informed or fashionable in terms of current performance practices is really here nor there. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[Pianowrestler]

In this case, the ear of the beholder!

True, Art isn't an exact science, but Bach is no Rachmaninoff either. When you play Bach on piano, you have to deal with stylistic things such as use of rubato, use of pedal, articulation, phrasing, dynamics etc. to make yourself credible.

Maybe you have to be a classical musician to understand that.

Btw Tureck, the "High Priestess of Bach" also played harpsichord and clavichord and wrote many books on Bach.

[pianoboyo]

That said I wouldnt buy this if it was released on disc - its not to my taste.

[pianoboyo]

One must remember peroid performance practice is a relatively new science..and frankly an extremely inaccurate one. Noone has to play Bach as he would have played it or as if it was played on an instrument of his time..History has given us enough distance to interpret these works as we believe is appropriate..we are not paid by Bach. The spirit of the music is MUCH bigger than the composer himself and has room for many and diverse interpretations nd reinventions. Turek is a legend..

[Pianowrestler]

Well, I agree with you in the sense that especially the mature Bach outgrowed his time, reaching to eternity with his music...playing in a certain tradition can be questionable in the light of new quasi-scientific resarch concerning historical performance practice. But there are many ways to play the great Cantor. Tureck belongs, together with Fischer, Richter, Gould, Norton and others, to the best Bach interpreters on piano.

[spiderml]

why does she need sheet music? half of the challenge of the goldberg variations is the memory work involved

[Pianowrestler]

If you look at it historically, only since the days of Clara Schumann and Liszt the playing by heart was brought into vogue. Before that time, if was even considered by many as an insult to the (wishes of) composer!

A great artist like S. Richter also played with the sheets when he was older.

[alra1975]

"With heart and mind", "A balance between emotion and intelligence", these are the mottos of Koopman and the perfect definitions of Bach's genius. By the way also il Signor Antonio Mercante, plays always with the music-sheet: that is the diving board for his amazing improvisatory excursions in Baroque landscapes...Always with heart and mind, of course!

[alra1975]

By the way, just technically talking, Antoine Marchand never plays repetitions and his tempo is twice faster and "bouncing" in its Baroque flexibility, while Tureck's rubato is just an hided Romantic pattern...

[Pianowrestler]

Doesn't he play any repetitions in the "Goldberg" Variations, and did he record (parts of) the "Klavieruebung"?

[alra1975]

Koopman recorded just one time G.V. in 1987 for Erato. As typical of Baroque practice, he has a total freedom in repetitions: sometime he plays them, sometimes not, improvising and adding ornamentation in a natural way, as never heard from no one, like in a "live" performance. If you like, on his site you can find a list that contains almost his recordings, on every keyboard instrument.

[alra1975]

Even with Koopman's very fast tempo, it is impossible to fit the complete Goldberg in just one Cd (obviously, to cut repetitions is an aesthetical choice, not a matter of space). The most complete version of G.V. is the magnificent one recorded in 1989 by Sergio Vartolo on Tactus records, a truly amazing achievement with a very subtle, early Baroque, rubato nuances.

[Pianowrestler]

Interesting. In this respect, Glenn Gould and Eunice Norton are a bit similar in terms of leaving out repeats at random and inventing different articulation and/or ornamentation "on the spot". But Gould was influenced a great deal by this lady Tureck, he admitted that!

[Pianowrestler]

By the way, I do think that this improvising aspect should also be present (to a lesser extent) in the Classical period, e.g. the concerti of Mozart. Makes it also less boring to listen to!

[alra1975]

If you wish to hear the improvising aspect that comes alive again in Mozart, listen to Bart van Oort (fortepiano) and Igor Kipnis (cembalo and fortepiano) and you will have the "real" thing, not the "boring" thing...

[alra1975]

Van Oort also recorded, with the improvising aspect clear in his mind, the complete Nocturnes (on period fortepianos for Brilliant Rec.) by Chopin and Field and these are among the greatest performances ever heard, like live feeling...

[Pianowrestler]

Well, I don't think it quite matches V. de Pachmann (considered by Liszt the finest Chopin-interpreter)or von Koczalski who also improvised embellishments in the nocturnes in his early recordings of the 20's.

And the sound of Friedman in Chopin cannot be surpassed...

[Pianowrestler]

One has to be very careful with adding things in scores while playing Chopin...you can read the great book of Eigeldinger to see that he was very scrupulous when his pupils played his music.

If van Oort is playing on a Pleyel, it's interesting...just like the great Cor de Groot recorded his mazurka's on one...but in Chopin I prefer the "normal" sound of a Steinway, especially when it is played like a great artist such as Rubinstein.

[alra1975]

Yes, van Oort played exactly on period Pleyel, as always with great historical care but with a "live", intuitive feeling that is always forgotten by closed minded "egg-shell" historical interpreters. I am sure that after a listening, even the humble van Oort will deserve his little place in the Chopin Olympus...

[alra1975]

Obviously the same quality goes for van Oort's and Kipnis' Mozart on Walter and Dresden fortepianos with the true Late-Baroque-Galant-Classical "bouncing", a little bit "improvised" style that even Beethoven reminded (and criticizes) about Mozart...

[Pianowrestler]

Then maybe you will also be interested - sorry, this has nothing to do with La Tureck - in Mozart played on a Stein "vis-à-vis" fortepiano (now in the Museo del Castelvecchio in Verona), ideal for a married piano-duo! It is released on the label Harmonia Mundi. Steiner/Schornsheim, they also improvise on it.

[alra1975]

Of course that I am interested, why don't mention this before? I will check if it is still available, H.M. often goes out of print very soon. Anyway, thanks!

[alra1975]

Leaving or taking repetitions is a Baroque style practice (Leonhardt have made school about this). With Gould we can talk about another of his bizarre manifestations of the great king of the "autistic Bach"...

[Pianowrestler]

I remember a live concert of S. Richter where he played among others the second English Suites. In the Sarabande, he played (in a very slow tempo) ALL the repeats, whereas for me it would be clear that you should insert "Les agréments de la même Sarabande" after you 've played (without repeats) the non-ornamented version.

This is an example of how repeats can be misunderstood!

Btw as I told you earlier, he did play Bach very expressive.

[alra1975]

To fall into mediocre "gaffes" could happen also to the greatest piano player, when he is totally unaware about true Baroque style and practice taste...

[Pianowrestler]

Yes, it wasn't easy to develop style and taste behind the Iron Curtain, but at least Richter was ready to change when he knew he was wrong, as in the famous case with the Italian Concerto (apology on CD):

"Just now S. R. realized, much to his regret, that he always made a mistake in the third measure before the end of the second part of the 'It. Concerto'. As a matter of fact, through forty years - and no musician or technician ever pointed it out to him - he played 'F#' rather than 'F'.

[alra1975]

We must never forget that, as Milstein sadly said, behind the Iron Curtain, Bach was considered a "B" series composer, good only for exercizes... (Obviously every comment is quite superflous about Communism's taste)

[alra1975]

My only and final comment could be: "Modern rules don't work with ancient repertoires"

[Pianowrestler]

Hehe, somehow I expected that a bit!:)

Li scrivero appena possibile!

[alra1975]

Allora, a presto! =)

[offeringmusic]

Actually, no he didn't. Never did he fully admit her influence. Acknowledge yes, influence...that's a little stickier.

[Pianowrestler]

Read Jonathan Cott's book "Forever young", p. 51:

"...In fact, really I didn't like Landowska's playing very much, and I did like Tureck's enormously - Tureck influenced me."

This is also quoted in Geoffeys Payzant's "Glenn Gould, Music & Mind".

[offeringmusic]

In fact, Tureck influenced him enormously. For the most part Gould rejected other performer's interpretations. The quote you offer places the emphasis on the fact that he 'liked' her enormously, not that he was influenced enormously. Had he acknowledged this, it would have appeared as more than a single line in Cott's book.

A nod does not a concession make...go deeper. Try Bazzana's book "Wonderous Strange".

Lest you think I'm anti-Gould know that one teacher dubbed me "Glenda Gould".

[Pianowrestler]

Your comment seems to be a bit oxymoronic...anyhow, apart from the obvious quotes the influence is clear when we compare e.g. T's Bach recordings from the 50s with Gould's later ones: the staccato-touch, the articulation (of themes), the measured trills etc. Not so much in the tempi, though, T's are usually more moderate.

[Pianowrestler]

It is interesting how she plays with different articulation and embellishments when she repeats, a bit à la Ton Koopman. That is of course in the Baroque style, but is it also spontaneous? I doubt it, it sounds concentrated but studied.

[alra1975]

It is exactly the spontaneity that is totally missing in this performance, because this is "reproducing Baroque" while in Koopman it is "living Baroque". That is something that no books, no lesson, no technique can teach, it is in the veins, it cannot be faked or simulated... Or you "live" Baroque, or you are just... an historical performer!

[MusicaAntiqua71]

On-growing materials from VAI! Bravo VAI, Bravo Madame Tureck! :-)