i'm sorry are people that stupid. the lisbon earthquake is given as a special example. as if prophets or saints didn't die unjustly. as long as you live on planet earth you are bound by laws of physics and the ecosystem. that means injury or death from natural disaster (not to mention others animals/microbes). it's simply as that.
Ahem. Enlightenment isn't a narrative it's irrefutably a system.And there's no conflict between the Gospel Enlightenment (Matthew 4.16 and 28.3 ex Socrates' Escape from the Cave) and Hume's Enlightenment. Unfortunately fake forms of Enlightenment issued from atheists Rousseau Kant and Hegel to wreck them .
And Virgil was so anti-Enlightenment that his martial cult stupefied Rome into mismartialization/amartias, dictators, idolatry of Imperium, caste-rating, irrational Natural Law, and ruination.
The 1755 Lisbon earthquake, the JFK assassination, the December 7, 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor, the 9/11/01 attack on the American homeland, the most recent death in the family -- all these historical events are, in my opinion, "wake up calls." We apparently need them occasionally. The point being that life in this present mode cannot go on "happlily ever after." Rats! I gotta repent!
He's right that we didn't need modern science to tell us that resurrections don't happen. But he fails to account for the fact that Jesus (and other 1st century Jewish apocalypticists) saw the resurrection as an inauguration of an imminent new age, much like the new age Wright makes fun of Jefferson for proclaiming. The fact is, Jesus and Jefferson were both wrong. The question is (and Wright get this correct), what can we learn from these failed new age movements, and where do we go from here?
The Jewish idea of time is not as simple as all that. Time element, in Jewish prophecy, just goes right out the window.
You fail to account for the portrayal of actions as imminent in what one would call "redemptive history." Note the use of the round number 40 and its correlation with redemption. How long did the waters fall while Noah was in the ark? How long was Moses on the mountain? How long did Jesus fast?
Redemptive history, in Jewish thought, is unique and cannot be casually dismissed.
thomstark =: His point, more accurately , is not that the resurrection of Jesus did not happen (just the contrary, he is a leading proponent that God raised Jesus from the dead); rather, it is that people of this period clearly understood that death was inevitable and final (no need for modern science to establish this). The fact of Jesus' resurrection from the dead was the introduction of glorius hope to people then, now and forever !
I never said that Wright said that resurrections don't happen. You've misunderstood me. Incidentally, I've read Wright's book on the resurrection of Jesus, and it's not very good.
Good summary of the significance of postmodernity at the end. However, his claim that the Enlightenment was a form of Gnosticism is just sloppy. There was nothing secretive about the knowledge the Enlightenment promised. And every tradition claims to be the enlightened tradition, including Christianity.
I understand your point about the boldness of the Enlightenment ideas, thomstark, but I don't think Wright was talking about that aspect of it. He is comparing the ownership of the "secret" knowledge of Gnosticism to the ownership of the declared knowledge of the Enlightenment. "WE have it! Watch US usher in the Brave New World." I think that's the point of the analogy. Or no?
Yeah, but that sentiment isn't Gnostic. That's Christian. That's what Christians claim/ed. So that's why I disagree that the Enlightenment was anything like Gnosticism. Gnosticism was a private knowledge. Christianity and the Enlightenment was a knowledge made available to all. Anyway, whatever. No big deal.
The secrecy or openness of knowledge was not his point at all. Rather, like Gnosticism, the Enlightenment believed that their new knowledge empowered them to change things.
i'm sorry are people that stupid. the lisbon earthquake is given as a special example. as if prophets or saints didn't die unjustly. as long as you live on planet earth you are bound by laws of physics and the ecosystem. that means injury or death from natural disaster (not to mention others animals/microbes). it's simply as that.
Garegin 1 month ago
Ahem. Enlightenment isn't a narrative it's irrefutably a system.And there's no conflict between the Gospel Enlightenment (Matthew 4.16 and 28.3 ex Socrates' Escape from the Cave) and Hume's Enlightenment. Unfortunately fake forms of Enlightenment issued from atheists Rousseau Kant and Hegel to wreck them .
And Virgil was so anti-Enlightenment that his martial cult stupefied Rome into mismartialization/amartias, dictators, idolatry of Imperium, caste-rating, irrational Natural Law, and ruination.
cloudbusterman 9 months ago
The 1755 Lisbon earthquake, the JFK assassination, the December 7, 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor, the 9/11/01 attack on the American homeland, the most recent death in the family -- all these historical events are, in my opinion, "wake up calls." We apparently need them occasionally. The point being that life in this present mode cannot go on "happlily ever after." Rats! I gotta repent!
billybagbom 9 months ago
He's right that we didn't need modern science to tell us that resurrections don't happen. But he fails to account for the fact that Jesus (and other 1st century Jewish apocalypticists) saw the resurrection as an inauguration of an imminent new age, much like the new age Wright makes fun of Jefferson for proclaiming. The fact is, Jesus and Jefferson were both wrong. The question is (and Wright get this correct), what can we learn from these failed new age movements, and where do we go from here?
thomstark 2 years ago
The Jewish idea of time is not as simple as all that. Time element, in Jewish prophecy, just goes right out the window.
You fail to account for the portrayal of actions as imminent in what one would call "redemptive history." Note the use of the round number 40 and its correlation with redemption. How long did the waters fall while Noah was in the ark? How long was Moses on the mountain? How long did Jesus fast?
Redemptive history, in Jewish thought, is unique and cannot be casually dismissed.
Tristaths 2 years ago 2
Ha!
tmstark 2 years ago
thomstark =: His point, more accurately , is not that the resurrection of Jesus did not happen (just the contrary, he is a leading proponent that God raised Jesus from the dead); rather, it is that people of this period clearly understood that death was inevitable and final (no need for modern science to establish this). The fact of Jesus' resurrection from the dead was the introduction of glorius hope to people then, now and forever !
shieldsff 2 years ago
Comment removed
tmstark 2 years ago
shieldsff,
I never said that Wright said that resurrections don't happen. You've misunderstood me. Incidentally, I've read Wright's book on the resurrection of Jesus, and it's not very good.
tmstark 2 years ago
@tmstark - What have you read that is better?
aerycksmusic 1 year ago
Good summary of the significance of postmodernity at the end. However, his claim that the Enlightenment was a form of Gnosticism is just sloppy. There was nothing secretive about the knowledge the Enlightenment promised. And every tradition claims to be the enlightened tradition, including Christianity.
thomstark 2 years ago
I understand your point about the boldness of the Enlightenment ideas, thomstark, but I don't think Wright was talking about that aspect of it. He is comparing the ownership of the "secret" knowledge of Gnosticism to the ownership of the declared knowledge of the Enlightenment. "WE have it! Watch US usher in the Brave New World." I think that's the point of the analogy. Or no?
pauldelahunt 2 years ago
Yeah, but that sentiment isn't Gnostic. That's Christian. That's what Christians claim/ed. So that's why I disagree that the Enlightenment was anything like Gnosticism. Gnosticism was a private knowledge. Christianity and the Enlightenment was a knowledge made available to all. Anyway, whatever. No big deal.
tmstark 2 years ago
The secrecy or openness of knowledge was not his point at all. Rather, like Gnosticism, the Enlightenment believed that their new knowledge empowered them to change things.
Tristaths 2 years ago
So did Christianity!
tmstark 2 years ago
brilliant and inspiring
daniykf 2 years ago
I love this man. He's a genius.
holymolydude 2 years ago 2