Beneficial Modification of the Bedini SSG?

[comoloco247]

He does a very good job of explaining everything. He does not seem to leave anything out. like most of these other how to videos do,

[smartlasertech]

where did you get the relay coil? what type do you need?

[guruji243]

Hi Introvertebrate nice finding I am going to do it for more torque on mine cause I am trying to spin a car alternator.

I've build Bedini motors and it's true it gives more than it takes.

Thanks

[wolfey2k]

mecnanical points such as in the relay provide a very narrow pulse period. that's why you are seeing what you are trying to explain. the relay is not beneficial.

[introvertebrate]

take a closer look at the schematic... I am not using the points on the relay... I am just using the coil as a choke on the rigger circuit because it has just the right inductance for my machine.

[wolfey2k]

Okay, sorry, my oversight. Still I don't see what the advantage is in 'real' terms. I know you see the given results but what are the end benefits? Not saying there aren't any but have you disovered what they are if any? Interesting phenomenon is just that and nothing more until you find out exactly what it is or if it is or why it is if it is a significant discovery at all. Have fun !

[introvertebrate]

hmm.. tired to reply but not sure if it is showing up... second attempt:

For those who are only looking for the mechanical output from the ssg, this modification produces the same amount of mechanical energy for half the input from the operator...

I have not seen a significant improvemnet in charging COP with the motor... though I have had very interesting results using the choke in a solid state charger...

[AdamsMotorGenerator]

This motor generator type is not from bedini, but from Adams, the real genius. Bedini copy the motor and create a patent with it. If you want overunity you have to look to adams. My Adams motor replication runs overunity at about 250v and 0,029A and runs cold. Automatic swap batteries and Self running at about one year!

[DonHoraldo]

and you sir are ether a lair or don't know what your talking about.

[comwarrior69]

ok, adamsmotorgenerator...

"My Adams motor replication runs overunity..."

"...Self running at about one year!"

So your device is overunity bot only runns for a year...

Erm, if your device will only run for a year, then how can it be overunity?

[Careica]

Good you are back!

Rele seems to put current down, but how about volts? Are they same or did go up?

Overunity?

Reg. Careica

[Drevtoobe]

Seph,

Do you have a good link defining "radiant energy", everybody talks about it in your energetic forum. - Thanks.

[introvertebrate]

there is a thread on the forum discussing what radiant energy is

energeticforum(dot)com /renewable-energy/473-radiant-­energy.html

[Drevtoobe]

Seph, I am reading your forum and some of the discussions.

Here is a big answer for you: The resonance typically is due to "stray capacitance" that is inherently everywhere in a circuit, which, coupled with the transistor and the coil, forms an amplified LC oscillator. The frequency is 1/(2*Pi*sqrt(LC). You can imagine that there is a very small cap between the coil and the base of the transistor. And yes, the choke clokes off the oscillation. See "LC circuit" on Wikipedia.

[peper0110]

Tremendous work Seph!!!!

It's look like you study you'r machine for a long time to have this precise and concise

explanation..

I like you'r work and you'r theory on the

working process..

WELL done!!

[introvertebrate]

Thanks peper! Hope it works for others as well!

[Drevtoobe]

Hey introvertebrate, let me give you my guess about your improved performance with the additional relay coil: It delays the firing of the trigger pulse. This may give you better alignment with the "sweet spot" as the magnet flys by the triggering coil. You are getting a better push for each pulse. That gave you the ability to narrow the pulse with your trim pot. The narrower pulse means less current consumption from the battery, longer spin-up times, and a more efficient motor.

[Drevtoobe]

Two follow-up thoughts: It is possible that the pulse width is too long on some motors, and the coil is being powered when it is not driving the rotor. That would represent lost energy. As the motor spins faster and faster, the pulse width should be narrowed. It is akin to how a car's engine changes the dwell angle/timing of the firing of the spark plugs to keep the explosions in the "sweet spot". A real keener could design a circuit to automatically adapt the pulse timing to match the RPM.

[Drevtoobe]

Hey introvertebrate, let me give you my guess about your improved performance with the additional relay coil: It delays the firing of the trigger pulse. This may give you better alignment with the "sweet spot" as the magnet flys by the triggering coil. You are getting a better push for each pulse. That gave you the ability to narrow the pulse with your trim pot. The narrower pulse means less current consumption from the battery, longer spin-up times, and a more efficient motor.

[introvertebrate]

did you read the video description by chance? ^_^

[thedarkener]

Yes. It still confuses the fuck out of me =p

[Drevtoobe]

OMG, I just read the description, I think the triangle-thingie was always "closed"!!!

"though not sure why I am getting the same speed from the rotor... it SHOULD slow the motor down but it doesn't."

Like I said below, I think you are getting more bang from your pulse buck because you are better aligned with the "sweet spot" of the magnet fly-by. Good show.

[thedarkener]

You are an electrical freaking genius. I've always envied people who were versed with schematics and stuff like that. I love electronics..but don't really have the patience to learn it.

[introvertebrate]

Cheers Jordan!  Glad I'm not boring you! Just stumbled on the modification while trying to do something else that didn't work. We learn from our failures ^_^

[peper0110]

If you consider this as a LOW BLOW,it's you'r

busines..

I'm just put some comments and there noway

you can't disprouve me.

As i said earlier::make experiment and comeback later WITH RESULTS....

This is my FINAL point..

[peper0110]

Hey Drev!!

I guest you were KICKOUT of some forum????

Because,if you argue like that on YOUTUBE it's because you have nowhere else to go????

And if you are on some free energy forum,

you're not argue like that,they're not allowed you to argue if you cannot have

CONCRETE proof of what you say!!

Thanks for you're UNDERSTANDING....

[Drevtoobe]

I am just trying to help some people out, help them up the learning curve and let them draw their own conclusions, that would be fun.

[peper0110]

Please guys!! Let Drevtoobe alone.. Dont you see he BADLY NEED to be cared of.. This guy is just a look alike DESERTPHILE. They all push to have some attention... Hey Drev!!Start to experiment,try to understand you'r machine,and then,comeback to discust about you're finding.. I don't mind about you're engeniring skills. Radiant energy as nothing in common with regulard energy AT ALL. Please!!Contact John Bedini imself,if you have discovert something that go wrong with is systhem.

[Drevtoobe]

Hey there peper6,

I am being sincere and you are trying to strike a low blow. I made the effort to look at all of Pwordchernoir's clips and now I think that I understand how his motor works and I would be happy to answer some of the questions that he poses.

"Radiant energy as nothing in common with

regular energy AT ALL."

Not true, there is no such thing as "radiant" vs. "regular" energy, there is just energy.

[Drevtoobe]

"I am baffled why you spend so much time commenting on free energy videos when you are not interested enough to experiment."

Yes, you have seen me elsewhere on YouTube challenging people that I think are scammers looking to steal money from gullible investors. Lutec, Steorn, and Searl come to mind right away.

You guys here building and experimenting with pulse motors are completely different, more like a neat little community like the early microcomputer days.

[Drevtoobe]

You guys are not on here to try to steal money from anyone. We had a somewhat antagonistic debate about back EMF pulses and perhaps we were talking past each other due to the limitations of prose when you are trying to discuss electrical circuits.

Truly, I am posting to try to give you guys a few new ideas, it is fun. However, you have to be open to real debate, and being challenged also. If all of you just stroke each other's backs all the time, you are forming your own "old buddy" network.

[Drevtoobe]

Anyway, in that series of postings I made, I had an awesome idea for making a very precise measurement for how much power is going into the charging battery from your typical full-wave-rectified energizing coil coil or secondary bifilar coil. It can be done with a conventional multimeter by "thinking outside of the box". I will freely admit to you that I designed it in my head a few says ago, and have never built it. You swap the charging batt for a big tank cap and measure on the cap.

[introvertebrate]

I would like to think that your sentiments are true, but unfortunatly I have repeatedly seen you have a dislike for "free energy goobers" and consider anyone who even considers the possibility to be an idiot.

As for being open to debate. We are. However, as you demonstrated with the OCPMM you are as stubbornly skeptical as those who are stubborn believers.

[introvertebrate]

You stated on the OCPMM videos that you were 100% confident that it was a fake. Which is fine. However you then go one to describe the intricate workings of the fake with ABSOLUTLY NO EVIDENCE! Nothing in that video indicated the way it was faked (if it was faked). I had listened to you in the past with an open mind, but after reading those comments I can see you are as blind as those who mindlessly supported the video.

[introvertebrate]

I respect that you have alot of knowledge in electronics, but please take a few things into consideration.

1. You don't actually have any experience with these machines and so it is unlikly you will get the respect you may well deserve.

2. Calling us Free Energy Goobers is not a way to earn our respect.

3. Keep an open mind and understand the limits of your own knowledge.

[Drevtoobe]

To respond to your points:

1. I don't have any experience with these machines and I can barely remember my electric machines labs.

2. No name calling.

3. Fine, and keep in mind that that is a two-way street. You experimenters must understand the limits of your knowledge, and actively work to get up the learning curve.

For example, how much energy is stored in a capacitor? How much energy is stored in an inductor? How do you measure it? If you don't know you should be looking into this.

[Drevtoobe]

"However you then go one to describe the intricate workings of the fake with ABSOLUTLY NO EVIDENCE!"

A thought for you:

When you are kid and taken to a parade and you see the people walking in "upside down" costumes , you reverse-engineer the costume in your head and realize that the person is walking upright and looking through a cloth window.

We all should think critically like this and we also have the right to speculate.

[Drevtoobe]

Sure I admit that I have been a bad-ass at times. Note that no one has successfully replicated the OCPMM yet. Yes, I did indeed reverse-engineer it in my head with two possible scenarios, 1) an optically coupled pulse motor, or 2) a brush-less DC motor.

Certainly not all people that consider the possibility are idiots. But if they can't express themselves properly and it appears that they haven't a clue, I am guilty of being tough with them at times.

[pipeorganphil]

Sorry your reply to my question seems to have disappeared

So r u triggering with + or -- pulse. Thanks

[pipeorganphil]

Ok thanks for that. Now next question is you have a diode from the collector of the transistor that allows back EMF to flow to the charge battery. So every time the transistor is triggered to pulse the motor power flows from the run battery through the diode and in affect pulse chargers the charge battery at the same time?

[introvertebrate]

nope... take a closer look at the schematic... no current from the primary battery can flow through the charging battery. By the standard electrodynamic model, when the coil is pulsed with the primary battery it forms a magnetic field. Then when the primary battery is cut off from the coil the magnetic field degrades inducing voltage in the same direction as the pulsed voltage. Since the transistor is off at that time, the voltage goes through the diode and charging battery.

[introvertebrate]

What we want is for the magnetic field to degrade fast enough so that there is as little current and as much voltage as possible. Voltage is free energy! Current is the enemy!

[pipeorganphil]

Thanks.

[Drevtoobe]

You may be interested in a series of postings I made on another pulse motor enthusiast's page. Just do a YouTube search on "99 hours of testing NO VOLTAGE LOSS". I give a pretty exhaustive treatise on a few basic concepts over about 25 postings, the most important being strategies for making measurements.

With respect to your statement about wanting "as little current and as much voltage as possible" you are incorrect but I can see that you are eagerly going up the learning curve.

[Drevtoobe]

When the transistor switches off the coil is charged up with a measurable amount of magnetic field energy in Joules. You are correct that with a fast switch-off you get a narrower, higher voltage spike. However, it doesn't really matter if the voltage spike is high and narrow, or low and wide, the same amount of energy will be transfered to the charging battery from the voltage spike.

[Drevtoobe]

There is also a twist to the story... When the main coil generates a back EMF "spike", as you know this gets conducted through the diode to charge the charging battery. The charging battery looks and acts like a "short circuit" to the pulse coming out of the coil, and "shorts it out" so that its peak voltage is greatly reduced. I'm not sure but it might be to just a few volts above the battery voltage.

[introvertebrate]

the voltage spike is in the hundreds of volts. It is clearly over 90 volts as demonstrated by the neon bulbs in the circuit. and we know it is alot higher as you can charge 96 volt battery bank off a 12 volt battery. Scope shots regularly show the spike to be over 200 volts.

[Drevtoobe]

Put your scope on the coil output when the charging battery is in the circuit and you will see that it is greatly attenuated.

There is a "tough and dirty" Plan B that you could do: Put two fingers across the coil while the charging battery is connected and then disconnect it. You will feel the spikes only when the battery is disconnected.

[Drevtoobe]

"It is clearly over 90 volts as demonstrated by the neon bulbs in the circuit."

Note that the neon bulbs never are on when the charging battery is connected, even though they are still connected in the circuit, proving that the spikes never hit 90 volts. They may be only 5 volts above the 12.6 volts of the battery.

[introvertebrate]

of course the bulbs don't light while the battery is in the circuit! However in response to your challenge, I have just put a neon bulb in series with the charging battery bank (48v) and all the neons, including the one is series lights. Speculation is a waste of time. Do the experiments!!!

[Drevtoobe]

I am sorry but I just had a chuckle. If you are telling me that you disconnected the main charging battery bank, and inserted a teenie neon bulb in series with the feed to the batteries, then of course all of the neons lit up! The neons have to be in parallel with the coil/batteries, not in series.

[introvertebrate]

They obviously won't light in parrell. I don't see what you are trying to prove.

[Drevtoobe]

Here is the real deal: When the coil kicks back the back EMF, the "radiant energy", the voltage of the spike is dependent on the load it is kicking back into. For a large resistance, the spike is a high voltage, for a medium resistance, a medium voltage, etc. If the resistance is zero, the voltage of the spice is zero. The resistance of the charging battery is very low, hence the peak voltage of the spike is very low.

[introvertebrate]

but the voltage spike ISNT very low... I don't know where you are getting these results!

[Drevtoobe]

Perhaps one day you could measure them, at least we agree that they are less than 90 volts when the charging battery is in place, no?

[Drevtoobe]

Hey introvertebrate, just to avoid any confusion based on what you told me, think about this:

You mentioned that you have four charging batteries in series for 48 volts total. Then the diode adds another 0.6 volts. In this setup, yes, you will see spikes that may go up to around 60 volts.

[Drevtoobe]

However, when the spike starts rising, between 0 and 48.6 volts nothing happens. Then when the spike goes above 48.6 volts the diode starts to conduct, and then the battery "shorts out" the rest of the spike to about 10-12 volts above the battery + diode voltage. This gives you the 60-volt spikes. If you have a scope, feel free to take a look and see if I am right. I am very confident in what I am stating. If a test proves that I am wrong, I will admit that I am wrong.

[Drevtoobe]

"The neons have to be in parallel with the coil/batteries, not in series."

And I forget to say the most important thing: Bu inserting the neon in series, you effectively disconnected the batteries from the circuit, so all the neons light up.

[introvertebrate]

how does it disconnect the charging battery?! The voltage has to go through the charging battery to light the neon.

[Drevtoobe]

If you connect a neon tube in series in a circuit it looks like an open circuit unless there is more than 90 volts across it. Above 90 volts I'll guess that it looks like a 5 Kohm resistor.

[Drevtoobe]

You may be interested in a series of postings I made on another pulse motor enthusiast's page. Just do a YouTube search on "99 hours of testing NO VOLTAGE LOSS". I give a pretty exhaustive treatise on a few basic concepts over about 25 postings, the most important being strategies for making measurements.

With respect to your statement about wanting "as little current and as much voltage as possible" you are incorrect but I can see that you are eagerly going up the learning curve.

[pipeorganphil]

So r u triggering with + or -- pulse. thanks

[introvertebrate]

I think the + pulses trigger the transistor.  not positive on that though,,,

[introvertebrate]

haha! pardon the pun!

[ice007man]

Great work! Keep the ideas coming! (In the process of building one myself) :)

[marthale7]

SUPERB work my friend. I will be stealing this idea he he...

[peper0110]

MAGNEFICIENT !!

Seph!!Thats a realy nice WORK!!!

Absolutely well done..

We'll discust more about details in energeticforum..

My regards

peper10

[Pwordchernoir]

This is very interesting work. Im going to go get one of those relays from maplins if they have them, to put in my circuit. I cant figure out however why my pot is so sensitive. im my last video i got it to work however now it has stopped. too much resistance totally stops the motor instead of slowing it. any chance u could take a look, help a fellow engineer out?

[introvertebrate]

maplin defiantly has them...

Maplin code: FJ42V

This is the precise relay I am using...

once your pot gets too high the coils are probably going into solid state resonance which will stop the motor... I'll check out your vids!

[Drevtoobe]

"help a fellow engineer out?"

Careful careful... you can only use the title "engineer" if you really are an engineer.

You actually don't need to get a relay. The relay coil is just an inductor. I assume that you have lots of inductive coils that you are already experimenting with. Just use one of those and you have the advantage that you can vary the number of turns in the coil and see what happens.

[introvertebrate]

drevtoobe... instead of offering advise, how about you go do the experiments then post your results... you talk like you are an expert but I do not believe you have done any experiments in this area. I am baffled why you spend so much time commenting on free energy videos when you are not interested enough to experiment.

[Drevtoobe]

I used to work as an engineer and I did many similar experiments when I was in school.

If you can scope the spikes when the charging batter is connected you might be very surprised. Like I said, the charging battery is simply shorting out the spikes so that the look more like pulsed of current as opposed to pulsed of voltage. The current spikes charge the charging battery!

[Drevtoobe]

Sorry, I meant "pulses of current as opposed to pulses of voltage".

[introvertebrate]

Speculation is not useful or scientific. Please post results.

[Drevtoobe]

On another one of your clips I point you towards a quite detailed series of postings that I made somewhere else that cover a lot of interesting ground on how to make measurements and other things.

I just read some of your postings and I can tell that you are a beginner with respect to electronics and motors. I am not a big-time expert, but reasonably knowledgeable. I can apply that knowledge, I have already done the learning.

[introvertebrate]

When we first met, you thought a Bedini SSG was a permanent magnet motor. I think, perhaps, you are a beginner in this area of research.

"I can apply that knowledge"

you can, but don't.

[Pwordchernoir]

I can assure you I am an engineer. I am a technical advisor to television stations in Manchester UK. I am well aware of the uses of an inductor coil. A relay coil is just an easy and effort saving find. Please stop posting negative comments when you are yet to post results of ones own experiments.

[Pwordchernoir]

that was for Drevtoobe

[Drevtoobe]

I looked at a few of your clips and see that you are beginning to learn about this stuff just like introvertebrate. You can only call yourself an engineer if you have a college degree in engineering and are a member of the proper professional organization. I am really an ex-engineer, I don't work in the field anymore.

I really suggest that you look up the clip, "99 hours of testing NO VOLTAGE LOSS" and read all of my postings there. I am really just trying to be nice and give ideas.

[Pwordchernoir]

This is very interesting work. Im going to go get one of those relays from maplins if they have them, to put in my circuit. I cant figure out however why my pot is so sensitive. im my last video i got it to work however now it has stopped. too much resistance totally stops the motor instead of slowing it. any chance u could take a look, help a fellow engineer out?