Re: Crucifixion compared in the Bible and Qur'an v2

[53yoMoRAPESa9yoChild]

the pages of these free korans are great toilet paper, - I like to " scrunch " it up a bit first, before I wipe the shit from my arse with it...

[pello777]

I wonder, why would I ignore the accounts of eye witnesses of the Crucifixion of Christ, both believers and non-believers in Christ, i.e his disciples and Roman Historians and accept the account of an illiterate Lunatic who came 600+ years later in a land 1000+miles from where the actual event took place? That's beyond all logic and reasoning.

[PurgingFalsehood]

Very interesting "Flow diagram" abt Jesus son of Mary at following link:

This diagram tells u life of Jesus frm his birth to death. I am sure, u hv never seen such a FULL info any where in past. Watch it now & tell ur friends to watch it too. This diagram shreds all the falsehood that is being preached from centuries to blind followers.

tinyurl dot com/2rkep3

Also search a page "PZSDFTP" in Google & read it fully with all its internal links & links given at the end of this page

[PurgingFalsehood]

Wise people finally come to the path of all prophets which is Islam.

Also wise people at the end of the day understand that Roman Paganism (Existing Christianity) founded by a tent maker Jew Saul later called Paul and re-invented by council of Nicea 325 AD has in no way any relation with the teaching of Jesus who like Jacob Abraham Moses Muhammad just preached Islam.

Paul has created biggest dogmatic fiction of mankind history & his believers are the most deluded people on this planet

[ghosteur]

The Hidden Story of Jesus /watch?v=KjKdnlQMOcY

The Hidden Story of Jesus /watch?v=KjKdnlQMOcY

jesus = bhuda = krishna = horas sun god ..............

Islam The Religion of Truth allah akbar

[wethepeopleUSA]

misquoting? yeah, I bet that's what happened.

[acpme]

Thus, you see the moon on the Islamic Mosques? Yes, many do not realize exactly why that moon is there...some however will deny this whole heartedly. P.S. - I'd like to say that every eyewitness and even historians said Jesus died. Mohammed who did not see Jesus (600 years later) claims to know something eyewitness didn't.

[acpme]

Islam wants to ignore this history. The fact is that Mohammed was pagan before he suppsoedly saw Gabriel. His tribe worshipped a god called allah, the moon god. Surprisingly this is the only god he preserves of the hundreds of gods of the tribes of Arabia.

[acpme]

They often claim that our Gospels are corrupt, ye they use them to infer things that Jesus did not say he was going to be crucified. They ignore however that The Apostles confessed that Jesus died upon the Cross.

[xplics]

Okay, okay but someone answer the whole Alah the moon god thing???

[WhatIBelieveIs]

After listening to your videos it is obvious that you are lost to the altar of islam! For you are WILLING to accept the base actions of mohammad Over the Pure life of Jesus! Why does allah tell you to follow a bad man and not the good?

[naliakbar]

Proove to my jesus' divinity without the use of your bible then? proove to me that the holy spirit is with your chruch and not with the other 25 that dont believe the same thin you do. are you telling me that everyone in your church has the same understanding of yoru bible?

[WhatIBelieveIs]

Can muslims ever answer a straight question! Just tell us WHY we should follow mohammad, who we know killed, raped, stole, lied and admitted taking advice from the devil INSTEAD of Jesus, who by all accounts lived a totally sinless life? An easy question surely!

[naliakbar]

as the quran says produce you proof, where did he rape? stole? lied? and take advice from the devil? and your bible says jesus was tempted by the devil... is god that weak?

[Footprintsonmyheart]

People naliakbar is outing himself as AN APOSTATE - for he is DENYING the TRUTH of the qur'an ;0(

Unless of course what he is using "Taqiyya - Saying something that isn't true" or "Kitman - Lying by omission"

For it is in simple reading the hadith and the qur'an that one learns, that far from it being a 'religion' of truth, Islam is a hoax, a mere hallucination of a sick mind and nothing but lies and deceipts ;0(

[naliakbar]

really where did i say i am an apostate to islam? secondly where did i lie? i have never willfully told something false to convince someone so please let me know where i lied.

[Footprintsonmyheart]

Hi ;0) Please read the following historical evidence from 'outside' the Bible regarding the crucifixion:

First, the 'letter of Mara Bar—Serapion' (c. 73 AD), housed in the British Museum, asks of Jesus' crucifixion: 'What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise King?'†

Harmony }i{

[Footprintsonmyheart]

2 ;0)Second, the third—century Julius Africanus (c. 221 AD) reports that the first—century historian Thallus says that 'when discussing the darkness which fell upon the land during the crucifixion of Christ,' it was an eclipse †

Harmony }i{

[Footprintsonmyheart]

3 ;0)Third, the Roman historian Cornelius Tacitus (c. 55—117 AD) wrote: 'a wise man who was called Jesus . . . Pilate condemned him to be condemned and to die.' Tacitus also notes that the disciples of Jesus 'reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive' †

Harmony }i{

[Footprintsonmyheart]

4 ;0)Fourth, Josephus (c. 37—100 AD) the Jewish historian wrote: 'Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemned him [Jesus] to the cross (18.3)†

[Footprintsonmyheart]

5 ;0)Fifth, the second—century Greek satirist Lucian (born c. 120), who traveled widely in the eastern Mediterranean world where Israel is located, in his On the Death of Peregrine, speaks of Christ '[A]s the man who was crucified in Palestine because he introduced a new cult into the world,' also calling him a 'crucified sophist' †

[Footprintsonmyheart]

6 ;0)Sixth, the Roman author Phlegon, freedman of the Emperor Hadrian (who reigned 117—38 AD) never doubted that Jesus was crucified: 'Jesus, while alive, was of no assistance to himself, but that he arose after death and exhibited the marks of his punishment, and showed how his hands had been pierced by nails' †

[Footprintsonmyheart]

7 ;0)Seventh, even the Talmud does not deny the death of Jesus: 'on the eve of Passover they hanged Yeshu (of Nazareth)' (Sanhedrin 43a, 'Eve of Passover')†

[Footprintsonmyheart]

7 ;0)Finally, in our own skeptical times, not even the most radical of New Testament critics, Rudolph Bultmann, denies that Jesus was crucified. Bultmann may take away from Jesus' miracles, his claim to divinity, the atoning interpretation of his death on the cross, but not the fact of his death. Indeed, that may be the only thing left in Bultmann's analysis †

[Footprintsonmyheart]

So naliakbar here is a wealth of historical evidence to prove that the crucifixion of Jesus was a fact! If muslims wish to continue with their false doctrine that is their affaire ;0( But any sane person would not follow a god that is so openly deceitful and dishonest in suggesting they 'Switched' Jesus for some other innocent man! Sadly satan really does have power here on God's green earth †

[naliakbar]

just like there was a wealth of information that the world was flat. and that the sun revolved around the earth, there were tons of information that prooved all these things, yet they were all false. and you are right satan has power over the earth, just look at how corrupted your belief is from the teachings of teh jews

[naliakbar]

also all of your documents the closest thing you came to the death in years was 37, if i were to write something today about vietnam war ofcourse i will have some bias information to write about it dont you think?

[IThirst4Knowledge]

Hi ;0) What a narrowminded view of factual historical evidence, especially when there is Not one evidence whatsoever for islam at all prior to 645AD! As Abraham perfomed all the rituals of islam and he lived 4000 years ago where is your proof that mohammed didnt just make it all up? †

Harmony }i{

[IThirst4Knowledge]

Hi ;0) The fact that in the qur'an it states that allah took Jesus to himself and replaced him with another and made him appear to be Jesus to everyone at the crucifixion is a HUGE deception and is not something the True God would do! †

Harmony }i{

[naliakbar]

Read the quran again it says that: That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

[naliakbar]

it didnt say that he was replaced with another... it was made to appear that they killed him... just like the sky is made to appear blue.

[MayIPleaseAsk]

"it was made to appear that they killed him" does this not prove that everyone present at the Crucifixion of Jesus was tricked itno thinking Jesus died on the cross - by the will of allah - therefore allah has deceived mankind?

Thanks - Kat >^.^<

[WhatIBelieveIs]

If you have already assumed in your premise what you are going to state in your conclusion, then you have ended where you began and proven nothing ie.....

#1 Proving Allah by the Qur'an and then proving the Qur'an by Allah.

#2 Proving Muhammad by the Qur'an and then proving the Qur'an by Muhammad.

#3 Proving Islam by the Qur'an and then proving the Qur'an by Islam.

If you end where you began you have learned NOTHING....

[WhatIBelieveIs]

mmm Nailabakr why so possessive to call it "My Qu'ran" did allah not supposedly give his word for Everyone? Though as your own sister interprets it differently to You - so much for the "One" message in its words!

[GLOB100]

Let I tell Trillian% truth to CHRISTIANS tht acording to ur faith, Jesus ws ascended alive with body of blood/flesh/bones to Paradise & sat on the right hand of God. & dis is a corner stone of ur faith.

But it hs bin proved by irrefutable & undeniable highly authentic historic evidence & Quran (final protected book of God) tht Jesus lived a long life aft failed crucifixion & is buried in RozaBal Kashmir. So ur God/Son of God is dead. Sorry! U R Godless now; I know this is not a good news for u

[GLOB100]

To undrstand the case of CROSS, considr an example: Mr. X says, David is failed in Math' EXAM. but Mr. Y says No, he is passed in EXAM. So is conflict abt the matter PASS or FAIL, but there is no doubt in the existence of the PIVOT of this conflict which is EXAMINATION, & in the case of Eisa S/O Mary, PIVET of the matter is CROSS. So there is no doubt that he was on cross but conflict is, he was killed on CROSS (SALABU) or not killed on cross WA MA SALABU. So he was not killed on CROSS

[GLOB100]

In Verse 4:157 "WA MA QATALU & WA MA SALABU" is used. Which mean "Esa was not killed, nor died on cross". Aparently one may think that WA MA QATALU was enough SO why Quran has also used the word WA MA SALABU? See so high eloquence of Quran that WA MA SALBU is used to ASSERT that he was tried to kill on CROSS but was not killed as Christian say, & Allah saved him from dieing on CROSS. WA MA SALBU=NOT CRUCIFIED=NOT KILLED ON CROSS. (Crucify mean to KILL ON CROSS see oxford dictionary)

[GLOB100]

In verse 4:157: SALABU=Crucify=TO kill some one on CROSS.

Reverse of SALABU is WA MA SALBU= Not CRUCIFIED=NOT KILLED ON CROSS. Allah has always tested & tried his friends. Even in the battle of Ohad the tooth of the Prophet was injured who is BEST of Humanity. Abrahim was tossed in fire & was saved. Jesus was fixed on cross, his feet were nailed & it seemed to Jews he was died but in fact was in coma. Was treated by his fiends by ALOE VERA in tomb and on 3rd day he was brought out of tomb

[GLOB100]

Professor Imam Shaltut, Mufti Egypt, top most SUNNI SCHOLAR & Rector of world's most ancient & reputed Islamic university hs said tht according to Quran Jesus survived on CROSS but in later life he was died naturally & the hadiths abt Ascend/Descend were narrated by two hypocrites "Wahab bin Munnabba" & "Ba'ab Akbar".

Pls do not tell me tht u & ur half-learned Mulla understand Quran/Hadith better than Imam Saltut. If u say so, then u r a stubborn ignorant & NO SOLUTION FOR STUBBORN

[GLOB100]

Shaikh Zakariya Idrees Oseni World League Journal, the monthly organ of the Rabita al-Islami, published from Makka in Saudi Arabia writes:

"Whatever be the case, the Islamic belief is that Jesus died a natural death after God had saved him from crucifixion. The stories of his ascension after he had been saved from crucifixion, which we find in some Arabic books, are obviously taken from Christian sources and should not be taken very seriously by Muslims with discerning minds."

[GLOB100]

Mohd Asad (Quran transltor) rites in coments abt verse 4:157-158 as folow:

Nowhere in the Qur'an is there any warant for the popular belief that God has "taken up" Jesus bodily, in his lifetime, into heaven. The expression "God exalted him unto Himself" in the above verse denotes the elevation of Jesus to the realm of God's special grace - a blessing in which all prophets partake, as is evident from 19: 57, where the verb rafa nahu ("We exalted him") is used with regard to the Prophet Idris

[123onlyfacts]

p1

He is the one should be sorry because he knows real meaning of that ayeh and in addition to that,inside the bracket or parenthesis is the personal view of the translator ,not the part of translation so He is not Honest in that issue.That is the deception issue.His God love deceptions that is Why his God hates the innocent victim of deception and cheating

(romans 9:13),and (gen 25:26-28)

or jer 7:20 " O LORD, you deceived me.."

Jay stop glorify God through misconceptions

[123onlyfacts]

p2

maybe Jay followed

romans 3:7-8 if through my lie...let us do the evil that good may come/happen.

They can never think about the message of jesus was

do what I commanded you the law of Moses which they do none of them for example circumcision everlasting covenant from god ( Gen 17:10-13)

And jesus will tell them "away from me ...I don't know you because you did not follow the words of God"

[123onlyfacts]

P3

And they deceive people they don't love Jesus because in john 14:15

If you love me, you will obey what I command. Not worry who was on the cross me or somebody else for the enemy of God that wanted jesus get killed there was confusion for them not for the follower of words of God.the enemy wanted to kill him and people like Jay glorify that intention.and that is a shame and deception

[123onlyfacts]

P4

Go ask any jew that did they expect the true messiah be cursed and humiliated and killed?

if not why you give lies to confuse the people

1corin14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace...

Romans 1:25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised.

So stand firm and trust in God . God bless all

[skythe74]

what muslim can not understand or dont want to understand is, that the crusifixion of christ was foretold by the prophets of the old testament long time ago! it was not an accident. actually it was gods plan to save the world from the sin.

the koran does not know anything about gods history and goal with mankind according to the bible.

[Dayper]

Thankyou for your honesty.

my friend, Jesus is Quoting Daniel, ''and i saw one like the son of man approaching the ancient of days'' is was a refence to the messiah, just check out the reponse he gets from the high preist! on this statment do they want to kill him!

[paperman110]

yes when i was watching the video this also went through my mind "how is this guy all facts and this one account he forgets?". I am a muslim and i was going to ask him to find more specific detail about the event in crown, but i can totally agree with how you see it.

[Dayper]

paperman110, i find this a consistent reasoning with Muslims. wether it be the corruption of the Bible,the person of Jesus,the crucifixon (e.t.c) They feel no need to have historical or archaeological evidence to back them up. As long as Muhammad has said it, thats enough because he is considered the 'seal of the prophets'. As we see with this sublect(crucifixon)Not one shred of evidence, a clear example

[naliakbar]

why do i need to proove god right? can you proove that adam was the first man?  no you cannot but you believe it because it is in your bible. as a muslim i dont feel the need to proove god right what is in his book is what i accept. i dont doubt the ONE god and ascribe partners to him like others have done.

[Dayper]

Islam has taken the Judeo-Christian history of God and applied it to itself, Accuse's Christians of corrupting scripture, redifined jesus, deny the crucifixon (e.t.c), and you say i dont have to prove God right. Why then, are you on youtube doing videos,this is a debate man! do you know what a debate is! all truth is Gods truth, you dont prove because you have no proof!

[Dayper]

You have alot to answer for

[paperman110]

I agree with nalikbar because religion isn't a debate based on pure facts, its a belief an opinion. I guess what i m trying to say is that i don't think it can be prooven scientifically or historically which religon is "correct" if so i think this argument would have been over a 100 years ago.

[Dayper]

I disagree with you, you might not be able to answer every question, but there is enough history evidence to say that Jesus died on a cross. True religion will be compatable with all these things,history,science,philoso­phy ,etc Islam is not

[naliakbar]

im sorry but christianity cannot hold a candle next to islam. in islam one god means one god, in chiristianity one god means 3 gods acting as one. not even a candle my friend

[Dayper]

nuh!

[Dayper]

Is that what your Qur'an tells you. what kind of agruement is this,So your god is a numerical 1 god and the Christian god is a compound unity not 3 gods, oh the candle is really buning.

[naliakbar]

the quran does not tell anything about this, but common sense does.

[Dayper]

The Quran does talk about this, you know it does, why dont you use common sense about the Crucifixon of Jesus

[naliakbar]

my common sense tells me that even if a man was crucified and died he cannot be my god, if jesus wanted me to believe in him he should be on that cross right now bleeding so i can go take a shower in his blood, that is an everlasting god. not one that dies on a cross within 3 hours.

[Dayper]

thats not common sense.

[naliakbar]

you ask why is it the quran says the crucifixion was not jesus and i say it is the word of god, and just as you accept that the word of god says adam was the first man, i accept that jesus was not crucified. just like you cant proove adam was the first man i cant proove jesus was not crucified. i accept he was not.

[RichardFriend48]

Except for the Bible, we have no evidence of Adam being the first man, true. They didn't write at that time. But we do have a huge amount of historical evidence of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. 12 eye witnesses who were changed by His power said it and wrote about it. Also unbelievers in Christ even wrote about Christ being crucified.

[RichardFriend48]

So the Quran is going against historical records, & true eye witnesses, and very much against the Bible (which Muhammad at one time believed in). Maybe you should take an honest look at the historical records.

[RichardFriend48]

Matthew 16:21 - From that time on, Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer greatly from the elders, the chief priests, and the scribes, and be killed and on the third day be raised.

[stand4truth]

But the Koran neither denies or confirms his crucifixion. Read 4;153 thru 160. In context,Its talking about the Jews

[paperman110]

yes i know. But isn't the whole point to persuade? :), u can't tell a christians to believe that.

[joelholdsworth]

I also want to say: big respect for the wonderful humble things you said at the beginning, naliakbar.

I don't agree with the Qur'an's account of the crucifixion. If that account is true, then all historians might as well give up. The crucifixion of Jesus is one of the best historically attested events from the period that we have. If a historian can't trust evidence of this calibre, then there's almost nothing that he can trust!

[naliakbar]

i would disagree, like to quran says it appeared so to them, just like it appeared to usa that iraq has WMD, some things that we consider to be history is just an illusion that we see and not the truth.

[joelholdsworth]

It's not what *they* thought at the time,but what *historians* Christian and non think today.Historians agree there were no WMD,and that Jesus was crucified.When the Quran talks about crucifixion,it's like saying that it wasn't Abraham Lincoln who was assassinated,but only someone who looks like him.All the evidence shows that it was Abraham Lincoln;all the people who were there knew it was him.If you'll believe that all the evidence is still wrong,on the word of *one* man,then history is dead

[naliakbar]

hey i gave you an example that we can all relate to, ill be honest with you i Hate to read so i am not as familiar with history, i slept in those classes this is why i did engineering. the point is that we may think one thing but infact it can be another.

[Dayper]

The thing is all the eyewitnesses saw him die on a cross, the nation saw him die on a cross, all the secular world thought he died on a cross, some reported that he died on a cross from the first century, but 600 years later from how many miles away were told not by a eyewitness that Jesus did not die on a cross, because God told him, Im sorry i know which side of the agrument im on and its with the facts! Peace

[naliakbar]

and the quran says they didnt kill him, but it was made to appear so. so if something is made to appear so then ofcourse people that withness an account will think it is so. and believe me i know what side i am on.

[Dayper]

But my agruement is that you have NO historical evidence for this, all your saying is, this is what the Qur'an says and that settles it. no need for historical evidence to back you up, this is so classic of Muslims. In a court of Law you would not stand a chance! my friend you must admit this is weak agrumentation! so again i will stay with the facts, if you dony want to thats your choice!

[Dayper]

But my arguement is that you have NO historical evidence for is, all your saying is, this is what the Qur'an says and that settles it. NO need for historical evidence to back you up. this is so classic of Muslims. in a court of law you would not stand a chance, my friend you must admit this is weak agruementation! so again i will stay with the facts, if you dont want to thats your choice! maybe it appeared to muhammad that he did'nt die on a cross, that settles it for you!

[Dayper]

twice because didnt appear

[beardedwonder06]

I respect your honesty naliakbar

[naliakbar]

Thank you... it is the only thing that i have control on

[tinotrivino]

THERE WAS ONLY ONE PLACE NO EARTH WHERE THE 3 RELIGIONS LIVED IN PEACE, it was Toledo, Spain, and they will be again thepeace one arth in this city, there are 7 sinagoge(jewish) 8 mosques(mezquitas, islam) and 9 cathedrals. and they live together in peace.. i am so proud about my city :-)

[naliakbar]

actually after the muslim conquest of jeruselem they also lived in peace there as well...

[tinotrivino]

before the sionist came... :-)

[naliakbar]

hahahah

[beardedwonder06]

What about the UK we all live in peace and actually have equal rights (as opposed to Spain where Christian and Jews were taxed more - "Zakat tax")

[bensli]

Can I correct u in one piont Muslims pay the Zakat and non Muslims pay the Jezia, now the Jezia is less than Zakat, non Muslims pay the Jezia to be protected by the Muslim army they don't have to serve in the army and fight to defend the city or the country and both of Muslims and Non Muslims have the same rights.

[jefitz]

You're talking nonsense of course!

Non muslims are given three choices in an Islamic state: conversion, SUBJAGATION so that they feel themselves inferior, or else death

There is no equality between Muslims and non mulims in an Islamic state and non muslims are not allowed proselytise. They are not allowed build houses or churches that are higher than Mosques. And in some countries (such as Saudia Arabia) are not even allowed worship or even entry to certain cities such as Mecca

[journeytojannah]

The jews of Madinah had tried to kill the prophet Muhammad pbuh a few times even after the muslims and jews had agreed upon a peace treaty between them.

[Zeras737]

yep, true even historical accounts proves this.

[journeytojannah]

There were a few times when the jews in Madinah had tried to kill the prophet Muhammad even after the muslims and jews had a peace treaty between them.

[qwertyfshag]

some Muslims say that you cannot be friends with Jews or Christians but then how could a Muslim man marry a Christian women? unless women are just objects. so obviously Muslims can be friends with Christians.

[fmm3]

No one really cares what "some Muslims" say. People should concentrate on what Islam says about such matter. Some Christians say the war in Iraq was justified yet others disagree so which Christians represent the position of Christianity regarding war on a nation which did not attack yours? Sorry to make this comment political. There are differences between people's opinions and preferences and what religions prescribe.

Peace!

[naliakbar]

the passage my sister qouted to me was in reference to when fighting them, and from the histroy what was happening the jew/christians would seek "peace" and when the muslims let them be they would attack from behind, so that is why it was said dont befriend them.

[qwertyfshag]

i would like to make some Muslims friends so i can learn about their religion and i can teach them mine but i'm worried that they won't want to be my friend because so many think that you can't be friends with a Christian. what are you thoughts?

[naliakbar]

any true muslim will know that they can be friends with you, so just look for muslims that are willing to give you taht hand of friendship.

[tinotrivino]

I am christian and naliakbar is my friend, how is this possible? simple, we both believe in the same god AND we accept and have tolerance i learn he learn together about the way to god,he with the islam me with the christianity, we know very much about what is going on out there in the world...and one of the problem is, they try to seperate people from their real way to GOD :-( but together we can stand against the commig evil...greetings from Spain

[fmm3]

You seem to be a nice guy, i am not sure why muslims would refuse your hand of friendship. If they do it must be something political or just pure racism being white and an American. You might have noticed Americans and the Muslim world are not on a good footing right now.

[beardedwonder06]

I have Muslim friends I think they like the fact I don't try and drag them to the pub etc like non Christians do