You mention having "seems like being such an internal organic desire" which sounds to me to fit with the evolutionary psychological theories, regardless of your frustrations with the results.
For the purposes of procreation if you feel bad afterwards, well, what do your genes care? Maybe you have a truth about how to be happy here, but no refutation of what men actually DO seem to want and what seems to actually be true about maleness.
What you pay attention to and advocate for will inherently benefit from your work and time... Feminism helps women.
Once you get past sexuality and you see some of the deeper problems in society you can definitely identify many issues that require a more robust masculism that is lacking currently. Feminism is not lacking now and it sometimes does leave men out of the equation.
Agreed. Engaged in such activities, felt an emptiness from it, and it has actually driven people away from my life, so it has been, undoubtably, a negative experience.
I won't dismiss the evolutionary psychology explanation because our history is that of a pack mammal, like lions, deer, wolves, etc., and we still have traces of that nature in us. We have innate alphas, determined serotonergically, within packs.
That doesn't mean it's not the naturalistic fallacy in assuming this is somehow better, though. I can say from my own experiences that I have had a damaging addiction, but, as someone who isn't "NT", not once did I do it for social implications.
You can send me a message if you'd like to hear the full explanation, which you might be interested in hearing. I think you're right about it being sociopathy, but I think your idea of what a sociopath is (and the driving forces) may not be correct.
I think that the idea of promiscuity is a very complicated thing. We have men being told that sleeping around is generally a posititive thing for them. We have women being told that being a slut is very bad, but at the same time if she is sexually unavailable this is very bad too. At least men are only recieving one message, consistency right? I wonder if some day humans will progress past the giggling high school like reaction to sex and actually deal with it in a reasonable way.
Heh.. you got a little emotional halfway through. Um I'd just add that it's perfectly possible to have non-commital sex with someone *while at the same time* having an emotional connection to that person. You sound like it's a kind of either/or situation, but there are many people who enjoy sexuality as part of general human interaction.
to some degree ,no matter how crude,we all bring something of a sublime expectation to sexual-encounters.The symbol & its essence combine & fall apart unique to the situation(s).the notion of notches on the bedpost is probably the most "basic" (& culturally formed & informed)percept of a quantitative-Sublime...but deeper notions navigate within the magma of meanings we try to verbalize into explanations & rationalizations...thus we wrestle even into the pursuit of Happiness.
@tlaniganschmidt "magma of meanings"? Seriosly? Dude, your comments have all the signs of pseudointellectual snobbery - cut the capital letters, dodgy metaphors and random cultural references.
@8DX no way...my favorite snob-tracts...are songs like Whitney Houston's "Didn't we almost have it all"...&..yo...random cultural-references are the way we snobs & you non-snobs actually experience life....but if i gotta git-inta heavy "cultural-critique" then i listen to "the Barbie Song"(byAqua)...&..i like capital letters...for KEY-WORDS...Yup..Magma of Meanings,Platitudes of Puke.Pseudointellectual-Snobbery...& anti-Intellectual Slobbery.TheRoad ofLife is feastooned with Dingleberries.
@8DX when in doubt..Scat references tend to unite us all...now i shall become a snob from another perspective..for i must find a way to.."burl erl in the terlit"..(boil oil in the toilet)...sad to say,the lingo of Swampville(aka my hometown) never was able to replace other sorts of English...BUTT..The vision of LIFE as an enormous AnalOriface festooned with festering filthy dingleberries is some how more home-spun & a feast of yucky yeast fermenting foibles into hemoroids of tiresome turds.
@tlaniganschmidt ...lets write for the sheer-joy of writing...what say you ?....as listless longings bulge reality into the performative-nexus...wha? it be so..i see so ..but hear these peckings on dis-page engage no sage..but wander wanting ...WHAT?...the sylvan shepards,engaging in non-romantic sexual-compulsions somehow convinced the city-folk that they were copulating with nymphs.Lurking songsters hid in the thickets of warm wooley dingle-berries.from this thus this is.amen.
sex can feel good just as sex.We bring sublime expectations to sex.These are multiple overlaping sublimes.There is the Aesthetic-Sublime,where animality is raised to a symphonic level...this is represented in & through Baroque &Rococo Art Forms.An example is,Bernini's StTeresa in Ecstasy,which can be seen as a swooning orgasmic climax....but ..that is tempered by its neoPlatonic Spirituality..where the Aesthetic-Sexual-Sublime is seen as transcendent Love & the ultimate Imago of BeatificUnion.
I really like this video! I think your point about patriarchy is bs though. If anything, modern governments are matriarchal (concerned with or promoting "female values").
Interesting video. I'm not sure the quality and quantity aspects of sex are mutually exclusive. What if the natural male (or female too I suppose) urge is not to have as many vacuous sexual encounters as possible, nor a single genuine relationship, but as many meaningful sexual encounters as possible?
Well, im sorry to tell you but genetics support the fact that men are "cheating bastards". reason why latest common male ancestor is so much resent in bechsoe men are more promiscuet. its just a fact of life.
very interesting analysis. Refreshing point of view. Do you write about this stuff, too?
The standing of women in a society is directly correlated with the advancement of this society. The implications of what you say can improve life in modern societies. Thanks.
Pseudoevolutionary explanations? That statement only makes sense if you dismiss the theory of evolution! In most cultures throughout time (as far as we know) men have been more promiscuous than women. And it makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. The modern western culture is not unique in this sense. This is of course not to say that male promiscuity is necessarily something good or something we should promote just because our male anscestors were promiscuous. But, don't be ignorant!
if you know you satisfy all the women that been with then it makes it worthwhile. It shouldn't be just about you when you have sex with someone... come on man!!!! Just laying on top of a girl and just releasing your manhood into her couldn't make her or yourself feel satisfied. I know some guys just don't have any chemistry with any of the girls they sleep with. It will be ok man, you will find that someone that has no chemistry with any guy she has ever been with and you will be a perfect match
If that's feminism, then I'm all for it. Then again, I was also fortunate enough to experiment with my sexuality in high school when this garbage wasn't so pervasive. I'm only 27 and I"m a bit worried as to how sexuality is going to be seen nowadays with these 'sociopathic' tendencies running amuck in the culture.
@bla34112 I'm representing one version of it. I'm not suggesting that everyone needs to engage in long-term monogamy all the time. Only that promiscuous sex that treats other people as belt-notches or accessories or otherwise less-than-human is a toxic way of behaving.
You take an entire branch of sexuality, and then represented a tiny portion of it. I honestly don't know any, who behave, or see it the way you describe. Even Charlie Harper doesnt keep a fucking score.
No, what you represented was a caricature of male sexuality.
I really feel the way you've expressed yourself. For a length of time I have. I thought I was one of very few who felt male promiscuity is an emotionally vacuous escapade.
Does anything make you feel good or truly satisfied? If your life was nothing but a golden staircase, wouldn't you just wish it was a diamond-encrusted escalator?
Interesting. I broadly agree, although "sociopaths" was probably a bit overboard.
Analyzing pop culture for such tropes can be very rewarding. One often finds one has been living one's life & thinking one's thoughts based on a script written by somebody else.
@simplic1000 " One often finds one has been living one's life & thinking one's thoughts based on a script written by somebody else." It's incredible, isn't it?
When I joined a road band at age 21 (back in 1984), the anticipation of groupies was one of the most exciting aspects. And with my first groupie, the walk back to her apartment was in fact very exciting. But then when it came to the 'naked in bed' part--doing something so intimate with a stranger--yes, it surprised and even shocked me how empty it felt: kind of like I was just using her as a piece of meat to jerk off into.
While I agree with many of the evolutionary psychology theories, what i find interesting is that it ends up placing our behavior into a box while at the same time being advertised as open minded. I think when we say "this is how we are by nature" you can draw a parallel to how some religion states "this is how god made us". I don't think it's the answer to any of our problems. Just because something is advertised of as rational, does not mean it always is.
Fellini's "Casanova" and both "Alfie" movies outdo Mozart. You must know that there are people who are incapable of intimacy. You might be one of them. Relationships have become as complex as Pop Culture. Perhaps you should join a cult with spiritual values.
Indeed all behaviour is trivially of evolutionary origin, the key word being trivially. Likewise, all behaviour is of chemical origin. The question is whether evolutionary theory is going to help you understand behaviour X. Sometimes it will, often it won't.
Usually this is because behaviours are the result of complex social factors that are several steps removed.
@iviewthetube There is a sense in which all behavior is of evolutionary origins, but that sense is, as simplic1000 said, rather trivial. As you get more specific, telling an evolutionary causal story becomes less and less useful. The posting of YouTube comments, for example, is not something we "evolved to do," but here we are doing it.
@geometrololi It's not just a matter of rights though. It's a matter of the space society pushes various groups into, which is often something that the laws-on-the-book have little to do with.
If you don't believe in a biological reason which resulted in this social expectation for men then I suppose you believe there were other social factors that led to define these mores. If so, what are they?
Also I don't know which men you were talking to, I suppose it depends on the culture of people you are asking. Generally the men that I know that are promiscuous from time to time say they want a serious relationship but in reality they only want that to take a short break from promiscuity.
I think, for men, virginity is just a component of status (pardon my vocabulary if I have poor word choice) whereas for women, there's actually a change to their genital structure in a small way. Even then, it's negligible and just another part of the same statistical game. The whole part about the "numbers game" you said really sparked my interests. That sounds oddly accurate. Thanks for your videos man.
There's enough evidence showing that thinking about this in a rational way is, actually, more in line with what evolution intended for us to do, or at least it turns the argument into something irrelevant simply by the existance of it.
This is why I don't even attempt to bond with a girl unless it's completely organic which it rarely is. I'm still a virgin and I have never been in a real relationship because these are the things I see and I want to find something real. It's a mindfuck though because I still feel an irrational pressure to find a girl and I still have irrational anxiety about being a virgin because I see friends gain so much confidence from losing their virginity.
@IntricateDolphin I feel the same way. It's a sort of disillusionment to see other males championing their conquests and people speaking contumely about the concept of a male virgin.
I don't want intercourse with no strings. I want to connect emotionally with someone. What's wrong with that?
I don't want to have sex with *as many* women as possible. I feel like I want as much sex/as high a quality as possible, and I would probably somewhat agree with your "quantitative" theory, but I don't think that necessarily demands as many partners as possible.
Men who are burnt often end up being promiscuous to protect themselves. It isn't unusual to avoid intimate human interaction if you have a painful experience, espeically if this has happened to you on several occasions, or in a severe fashion. I find that many men are burnt terribly by their first love, and from there learn to treat women as expendable to keep them at bay.
@ContraPoints I'm sure it does happen to women too, though I also think this intimacy issue is linked to childhood. That is probably of no surprise to many though.
When it's not 'special', and you don't feel deep (not only physical) satisfaction, the whole experience is superficial. And when it happens often with different people, then it's not 'special'.
And, ok, guys, I don't mean necessarily feelings of love, or commitment, just sensuous feelings and concentrating on the person you are doing it with (I mean he/she being quite special for you).
I mean what I'm saying, is it shouldn't be quite mechanical!
@ContraPoints Please don't talk about feminism all the time. I know you have moved on from what you used to do on your channel (which I liked) but just because you don't think in those black and white terms any more, now you are just pointing out exceptions and saying generalizations are wrong. Yes, a generalization about humans is always potentially problematic but to reject all generalizations is not helpful either.
The majority of males on YouTube that are promoting the idea of random hook ups admit to not being able to attract a female partner for a random hook up so it was more their fantasy. On the other hand, you're priorities/goals are honest and commendable. The coat is fabulous and you're gorgeous. You should be telling us because truthfully, you are one of the only guys out there getting random girls by charm.
A much more articulate expression of almost exactly what I've been trying to get across to people for the last couple years, thank you. Random hookups and shallow promiscuity aren't empowerment, it's the quintessential objectification of BOTH people/sexes, and I have a hard time believing that it doesn't leave both people feeling used by both themselves and the other person and emotionally drained.
I don't think promiscuity will satisfy someone for long. Nor is settling down with someone forever. It's kind of like drinking where you have to do it a couple times to find your limit. Sometimes you go overboard and regret it, but ultimately you find the moderation that allows indulgence and satisfaction without the regret.
I've never seen the attraction in random hook ups. I don't see anything wrong with it, so long as both (or more than two I suppose) parties are aware that that is what is happening. However it's not for me. A lack of emotional connection means it's really only about sensation and frankly you might as well masturbate. I enjoy an actual relationship much more and get really annoyed when people imply I'm less a man for thinking so. But as I said, to each their own.
I don't think that feminism is opposed to the interests of men. However, there are many feminists who will deny that men do face legitimate problems, saying that men are never discriminated against or that there are no instances where men are treated unfairly, which is simply not true. In fact many people seem to think that by saying you are a "Men's Rights Activist" that you are sexist and just want men to gain power over women again. It's not the ideology, but the people that cause the divide.
I would enjoy sex with varied women if I could, as opposed to being single.
I would prefer sustained relationships whether monogomous or polyamorous over sex with strangers.
The harm is any unrealistic & outright contradictory expectations, studs vs virgins ideals. I also find it bizarre that guys pursuing women, exclusively for sex, can have meaningful relationships with men. They are neccessarily limited by expecatations on themselves.
Oh mother of armchair diagnosis, really, people who enjoy sex with multiple partners are "sociopaths"? That's quite the assumption, why do you feel the need to ascribe your own discomfort with some of your past actions to everyone?
Why can't the answer just be that some people like having sex with multiple partners, some don't. Some people like to be monogamous, some people go through different phases of monogamy and then promiscuity, and some people are completely asexual. Sexuality is a spectrum, I would think that the goal of feminism would be to broaden the spectrum of what is an acceptable sexuality for both genders not constricting it by saying that the desire for sex with multiple partners is always a false one.
I find your comment about the quantifying of male sexuality to be very interesting. I find that in many other areas of life, not just sex, that males also seek quantification. Males tend to be better at quantitative reasoning and subjects like math and science compared to more females in the emotional subjects like literature or culture studies. This quantitative vs continuous idea seems to be inherent in the way male and female minds tend to work. There are exceptions of course.
I never understood why so many people need to feel as though sex and love are completely inseparable. Sometimes love accompanies sex and sometimes it does not.Neither sex has anything to feel ashamed simply because they enjoy the physical pleasure of sex without being in love.Having said that, I do think it is ridiculous that some men feel the need to "rack up numbers" as if it some type of sporting event.
I think that dismissing the evolutionary psychology behind it is incorrect. To me that is the core motivation behind this behaviour. The culture we live in can either serve as catalyst or inhibitor to this "drive". I agree that today's western culture is definitely promoting this. I think casual sex can be good and bad.it's mostly about how both partners are really into it at that moment. but the best sex, in my experience, is with someone you know well and are emotionally involved or in love.
perhaps you dismiss the evolutionary biology and the sexual selection process of male promiscuity but i do not. much of our early written history is full of polygamy. men died during wars and hunting, and the remaining men took in the women for wives (emphasis on the plural term). it is very likely that the human species was much the same before we invented writing. that is a very long time of men that desire to sleep with many women having the most children.
Where does the feminism come in in your talk about relationship over a sex mmorpg? You throw in a little bit of evolutionary psychology thing in the beginning, but I didnt feel you addressed anything, your example was a nifty story about how Mozart is creating rapists, you seem to me to be comparing two extremes and overlook the mid area, you have swinging couples and a wide variety of mid area lifestyles. Who fucks only for "physical needs" anyway? I feel you left the gray area unaddressed.
Of course we are more than our biological programs.All instincts(imperative or not)are conceptually modified by humans so that their values have different social-historical,and subjective(perspective)meaning...including love.If natures goal is just survival then there is no "natural value" beyond survival,all other value is left to Ideological conception and subject to ever evolving tools and ever evolving social/subjective evaluations.
@MusicalEutopia The thing is sex is just like any other addiction. If you treat it as something you strive your life to get you'll be dissatisfied. If you have some fun with some awesome chicks, damn I don't know what this kid is talking about.
I'm pretty much anhedonic and so this guy at work asked me today why I was so happy. I assured him I wasn't, and he insisted I was, and then he asked if I got laid, and said it must have been that. There's this idea that intercourse is THE ONLY thing that matters or can bring happiness or mellow you out
Thank you for this. This idea has wrecked (not damaged) me, and its caused me to retreat as far away from human relationships as possible. I simply feel disconnected from society, so I'm glad to hear someone say what you did
I think it's a mistake to declare what's "best" and what's "damaging" regarding sexual desires. It's not a one-size-fits-all kinda thing.
I basically feel as you do, and have always felt this way. I've usually described it as "sex without intimacy is like going into a pastry or coffee shop where the aromas drive you crazy, but nothing has any flavor. It's disturbingly disorienting." Meaningless sex is better than a kick in the head, but w/o intimacy, there's no meaning... it's all "whatever".
You dismiss the evolutionary psychology explanation. Why? I know you said that it was because you don't think it's true, but that doesn't really mean anything.
what i dont agree with us your statement in the beginning regards feminism on a whole, the primary feminism was a good thing, so in the pre ww2 era, they were legit, they vowed for equality by law(they might be called super libertarians if you will) the feminists from the 60's on were not, they are marxists, all legistlation requested and lobbied was done by using mens weaknesses and abusing chivalry for their gain, the whole sytem we have now is build of male disposability. i want equal laws
i mostly agree, i also dont get statisfaction from sleeping with lots of women, ive been able to break free, i just want an emotional connectiion, now i have my child and really i cant understand guys my age(24) still sleeping around and such. since indeed, a one night stand is such an emotional disconnect that even escorts give more love then a one night stand
The evolutionary psychology factor has a bigger contribution than you let on. But I broadly agree with you. Call me cynical, but men will never take up this attitude en masse, it's almost something you have to learn with age, and thus can never really appreciate until you've made the mistake yourself.
If your expectations of one-night-stands weren't met, maybe your expectations were unreasonable.
Sleeping around isn't totally fulfilling. Likewise, monogamy, if you stick with it long enough, will leave you wanting more at some point or another.
They're both satisfying AND unsatisfying in their own ways. An individual must find a balance that suits him or her. Sometimes that means frequent partner changing, open relationships, being with one person for a certain period of time, etc
@lintpicker07 But monogamy is a bit like a game of doubles in tennis, with the right partner who understands and respects you the bond can be very potent. You only get out of something what you put in, though if the other person in the relationship doesn't have the mindset to stick at it they will quit when the going gets tough. Sleeping around gets very boring after a while, and leads to a very cold attitude when it comes to intimacy.
Well I never had the desire to play number games and yeah I kind of always felt it's a bad generalization when other guys tell me it's biological. No. Really biology and some half-assed pseudo-darwinian arguments are just used to justify behavior. And if we look around, the number of men who life-long do this hunt is small, and the number of guys who try to find meaningful relationships is pretty darn large. But the narrative of the few gets perpetuated.
I see nothing wrong with promiscuity, other than health safety. I dont think setting your goal as "as many as possible" is a goal i agree with, but to ruling out less emotionally connected relationships is a needless addition, from my perspective. As I have aged, i desire more long term relationships, much more in line with a a modern "husband and wife" scenario, but i think it has a lot more to do with life goals. Desires havent changed, just curbing them to fit a life plan, like having a child
I don't think the issue is that men want to sleep with as many women as possible. It wouldn't be hard for most men to have sex with lots of unattractive women or prostitutes. I think it's different from man to man, some men are legitimately happy having sex with many women, and some aren't. Most men want to be successful with women, and that definition will differ to everybody. In my experience, everyone is contributing to this trope, from men that glorify it to women that "reward" it.
@9:17 Speak for yourself. You're inappropriately universally universalizing here. Many of us (male and female) can have short term hookups and not feel that sense of angst.
1) Whatever is wrong with "promiscuity"? 2) What is your evidence that the urge to fuck around isn't hard-wired? Can you provide examples of societies where men avoid short-term hookups when they can get them? 3) It seems to me that if anything, inequality means women's sexual choices have been *held back* and that they too have more sexual partners when not stigmatized for doing so. What's your solution? Repress everybody?
The one night stand kind thing is rarely very satisfying because I think you have to know the person reasonably well for either of you to have any idea what you'd be into sexually, and you have to be comfortable enough with each other to be able to communicate what you want without worrying that the other person is going to judge you for it. At the same time, once you're in a relationship, it's like sex becomes mandatory and uninteresting. My preference is FWB or sex with ex-GFs.
I've never had any great desire to sleep with a lot of women, I've always just wanted a companion. The last couple of years have been very difficult for me because even though I'm unattractive physically, sex is still easier to find than emotional connection. It's amazing to me that everyone claims to want this genuine affection but are never ready to provide it or find it difficult to accept when offered. Maybe that is a side effect of the damaging culture you're talking about?
I think what you're really getting at here is the typical "grass is always greener" dynamic. Guys that are celibate or monogamous want to sleep with more women and guys that constanly sleep around usually get sick of it and eventually want to settle down. The real truth is that the grass is never green because you're always wanting something more or different regardless of what you have. Humans are never fully satisfied or happy. Sex is just one more example of that.
TBH, I've never been interested in having sex with as much women possible. I rather was (yes, past tense) focused on having sex with the *most wanted woman*, so other guys would go like "you lucky bastard". Perhaps, somewhere subconsciously, it made me feel like I was good 'sexual hunter'. Pathetic really :)
Having Asperger's my random hook ups were not vacuous, although it was more of a longer terms fwb. Most of my teens and early 20's I was obsessed with love. In fact it worked so well had I not met my significant other, I had pretty much given up on love. Not sure I'd get into a relationship again considering how complicated the social give and take of a relationship is. It takes a special girl to deal with us.
Your description of that emotionally void aftermath of sex resonates with me. That's how I used to feel too before I realised I actually didn't want lots of sex. It seemed totally counter intuitive at first. I'd be interested in hearing why you disagree with the evolutionary explanation. I think the culture has exacerbated the already natural urge that's there. The natural urge causes our desire for sex. How we feel afterwards (evolutionarily) is irrelevant provided we continue doing it.
i've been thinking the exact same thing for the last couple of years. and its really cool to hear it said by you and from your perspective. i feel its unfair to treat other human beings like something you can add to your list, as you put it, thats why i've stopped wanting it. i'm kinda happy i didnt have to have my first real sexual encounter be just for the sake of it, it can still be a meaningful experiece for me, and that makes me glad.
My speculation as to why men feel like they have to do this promiscuous thing when they're young and later regret it is because getting a few women pregnant and then settling down for more children is more evolutionarily successful than simply the latter.
The ones who can be the happiest having shallow relationships with a lot of women are probably going to be the ones who actually do so to an evolutionarily beneficial degree. You had a few hook-ups, not a dozen infrequent sexual relationships. Your sperm wouldn't be getting into that many vaginas, and the sperm that did would be competing with other men's sperm. Thus your best evolutionary "strategy" would be monogamy. Get a woman pregnant every year for 10 years, bam, lots of baby Nyks.
It looks like a lot of people, myself included, don't agree with the dismissal of the evolutionary explanation for the behavior. Having sex with lots of women is the "strategy" that produces the most offspring in the short-term, culture often has a biological origin. It's cultural because it's biological. One obvious truth that we all agree on is that this isn't necessarily what's best for our happiness, happiness isn't always produced by the ol' propagation of the genetics no matter the cost.
youre having sex with someone who is pretty much a stranger and settling for something that amounts to a superficial connection. thats honestly all many people can handle, so they arent going to see anything wrong with it.
What do you think of people who are virgins over 25 and who aren't interested in sexual intercourse? Do you think that is psychological damaging to an individual who voluntarily abstains from sex for non-religious reasons?
@Pentazoid111 Not necessarily. I would advise such people to look into the causes of their lack of sexual interest, but if they feel happy and fulfilled without sex then I don't necessarily see any problem with it.
a couple of things... men cant be promiscuous without being able to find willing participants with which to "be promiscuous". i dont think there are an equal number of women that feel the same way, its probably those men either being deceptive about their motives, finding women that think that sex = relationship (it doesnt) and then the women that will have sex with men as frivolously (the minority of women). i'm always amazed at how quickly people jump into having sex.
It's strange you would blame these things on culture which is true then you act as if this culture sin't heavly influenced by feminism. Have you not seen slut walks? Have you not seen feminist supporting women getting out there and dressing whorishly? I'm not blaming the victim, but how could you say that by doing such things they would be asking for the opposite of what someone who blames the victim would be saying? It looks like they are saying, look we are sluts accept us.
@MirageScience I'm not a huge fan of slut walks. I think they confirm all the paranoia of religious reactionaries and offer to replace traditional sexual norms with a low and aimless hedonism.
It's more a matter of finding a compatible partner (starting with "physically", and then in other more intellectual ways). If you are pleased with your partner why would you want to have sex with anyone else? (Well maybe for the variety of it, but after a certain point you just feel too tired to do too much partner-hopping). But it's not that easy to find, and guys can still pretend to be playing "the game", while girls can still be branded whores, so in this way yes it is a cultural thing.
its inherintly opposed to men based on its actions. Any modern feminist that anywhere near intellectualy honnest should call themselves a humanist. I also don't define male sexualiy, infact I find that masculinity has a side effect of being strong enough to go indefinatly without sex. Now that's obviously not its defintion and nor is its defintion to service women, masculinity for me is defined by acomplishing as great of a feat imaginable for myself and for such feat to progress humanity.
@MirageScience I use the term "feminist" because I'm aligning myself with a tradition of criticism that opposes a social system that is historically and continuously male-dominated. That is not to say that patriarchy is good for men. It's just dominated by them.
@KielFly i'll dump my thought on the subject here. It is not that there is no evolutionary reasons for promiscuity, it is that there are also evolutionary reasons for monogamous relationship. Those are different reproductive strategies and all men have both of them to different degrees in their genes. "Quality over quantity" of monogamous relationship is more appropriate for human beings and it is sad when culture does not appreciate that.
I don't think there's a natural biological imperative to have sex with as many women as possible" No. There is a BIOLOGICAL imperative to have sex with as many females as we [males] can that follows directly as a result of sexual selection theory. There isn't, however, a natural psychological imperative to do so. I don't think so, at least. But the biological imperative is a fact.
This is bold. I've always trusted evolutionary psychologists, but I guess its important not to blindly accept information from ' trusted ' individuals. I'm going to force my boyfriend to watch this video :)
@SandySweet575: There are a lot of valid critiques of evolutionary psychology/sociocbiology. An evolutionary psychology isn't impossible whatsoever, but in it's current state there are problems.
I've also heard some people argue that the reason boys aren't being very loyal/grown up/good boyfriends is that there is growing disparity in the number of men and women getting a good education. Higher educated women are not very likely to settle for a less educated men, giving the men that are the luxury of kidding around longer.
@jadethevirginqueen The open relationship looks great on paper. But in my experience it just isn't possible with someone you're actually in love with.
@ContraPoints Which illustrates my point. You may not wish to pursue other avenues of pleasure, and that's your prerogative. This may not be so for others who choose to experience it. Not all these situations are subject to accusations of sociopathy, as you noted.
Your argument is unconvincing for two basic reasons:
1. You don't cite any studies demonstrating either that male promiscuity is cultural in origin or that promiscuous men are less happy.
2. Most traditional cultures practice polygyny, which if anything suggests that remaining faithful to one person and treating this person with what modern westerners consider "decency and respect" is a modern invention of slave morality as espoused by Christians and Feminists.
I find it weird that so many people think men want to have sex with lots of girls without any emotional relationships being formed. I don't like to be physically intimate with girls I don't feel attracted to. Maybe I'm part of the exception, idk.
If a man is naturally supposed to spread his seed as far as possible, how would he be able to protect and feed all these children to make sure they survive? If men are naturally not supposed to create an emotional attachment with these partners, what would drive him to protect and feed his children to make sure they survive? It's a silly misandrous idea that we're 'programmed' to act this way.
@FishofMuu No, you're misinterprenting whole sexual relationship theory of evolutionary psychology. Google: buss and schmitt (PDF) it's a study about long-term and short-term relationship status.
@TheBoomshaker No, I'm talking about this idea we have in our culture that not only are men only interested in sex without commitment, but that we are incapable of having otherwise, and that only men do it. If men truly acted in the way we are vilified, we would have never survived as a species.
I want to have sex with a lot of women, but I'm not interesting in counting and competing. I think you're giving culture too much credit.
Another problem is that many men these days desire intimacy only because they're insecure, and have distant mothers. So they're only interested in unhealthy dependent relationships with women who can replace their mothers.
Why you dismiss evolutionary psychology? It's clear you haven't done deeper research. You only mentioned short-term male relationship strategy which you are disatisfied with. Read about long-term relationship strategy (which is what I guess you are currently seeking) and do your homework before making uneducated guesses about dismissing such an important subject as evolutonary psychology.
What exactly are you trying to get across here. As someone who often falls opposed to feminism, I feel like I should be disagreeing here. But it seems like your point is that being a player is a bad thing, which probably isn't something you'll see very much disagreement from in any intellectual circle.
( i dont know much about feminism or the male counterpart) there is nothing wrong with wanting to hump as many people as you want. for either sex. or who you have sex with or what you have sex with. >.>
and that opera kinda sounds like Zasaz from Batman "he has to get the mark, and liberate them from their lives."
You mention having "seems like being such an internal organic desire" which sounds to me to fit with the evolutionary psychological theories, regardless of your frustrations with the results.
For the purposes of procreation if you feel bad afterwards, well, what do your genes care? Maybe you have a truth about how to be happy here, but no refutation of what men actually DO seem to want and what seems to actually be true about maleness.
WorthlessLoser8 2 days ago
Man i wish you used the term "raper" and left rapism out of it... Blech.
WorthlessLoser8 2 days ago
The evolutionary psychology perspective rests upon evidence and studies...
The opera and "bro culture" explain far less than evolutionary psychology's contributions on this topic.
WorthlessLoser8 2 days ago
What you pay attention to and advocate for will inherently benefit from your work and time... Feminism helps women.
Once you get past sexuality and you see some of the deeper problems in society you can definitely identify many issues that require a more robust masculism that is lacking currently. Feminism is not lacking now and it sometimes does leave men out of the equation.
WorthlessLoser8 2 days ago
Agreed. Engaged in such activities, felt an emptiness from it, and it has actually driven people away from my life, so it has been, undoubtably, a negative experience.
TheAlexANGST 1 week ago
I won't dismiss the evolutionary psychology explanation because our history is that of a pack mammal, like lions, deer, wolves, etc., and we still have traces of that nature in us. We have innate alphas, determined serotonergically, within packs.
That doesn't mean it's not the naturalistic fallacy in assuming this is somehow better, though. I can say from my own experiences that I have had a damaging addiction, but, as someone who isn't "NT", not once did I do it for social implications.
TheIlluminerdi 2 weeks ago
@TheIlluminerdi
But to answer why I did it...
You can send me a message if you'd like to hear the full explanation, which you might be interested in hearing. I think you're right about it being sociopathy, but I think your idea of what a sociopath is (and the driving forces) may not be correct.
TheIlluminerdi 2 weeks ago
I think that the idea of promiscuity is a very complicated thing. We have men being told that sleeping around is generally a posititive thing for them. We have women being told that being a slut is very bad, but at the same time if she is sexually unavailable this is very bad too. At least men are only recieving one message, consistency right? I wonder if some day humans will progress past the giggling high school like reaction to sex and actually deal with it in a reasonable way.
AelaTheHuntress 2 weeks ago
Whilst it's certainly true that feminism isn't at all anti male, it's also certainly true that many who label themselves as feminist are.
Parrotguy1999 2 weeks ago in playlist More videos from ContraPoints
You pronounce 'women' with an O-sound.
volbla 1 month ago
Heh.. you got a little emotional halfway through. Um I'd just add that it's perfectly possible to have non-commital sex with someone *while at the same time* having an emotional connection to that person. You sound like it's a kind of either/or situation, but there are many people who enjoy sexuality as part of general human interaction.
8DX 1 month ago
to some degree ,no matter how crude,we all bring something of a sublime expectation to sexual-encounters.The symbol & its essence combine & fall apart unique to the situation(s).the notion of notches on the bedpost is probably the most "basic" (& culturally formed & informed)percept of a quantitative-Sublime...but deeper notions navigate within the magma of meanings we try to verbalize into explanations & rationalizations...thus we wrestle even into the pursuit of Happiness.
tlaniganschmidt 1 month ago
@tlaniganschmidt "magma of meanings"? Seriosly? Dude, your comments have all the signs of pseudointellectual snobbery - cut the capital letters, dodgy metaphors and random cultural references.
8DX 1 month ago
@8DX no way...my favorite snob-tracts...are songs like Whitney Houston's "Didn't we almost have it all"...&..yo...random cultural-references are the way we snobs & you non-snobs actually experience life....but if i gotta git-inta heavy "cultural-critique" then i listen to "the Barbie Song"(byAqua)...&..i like capital letters...for KEY-WORDS...Yup..Magma of Meanings,Platitudes of Puke.Pseudointellectual-Snobbery...& anti-Intellectual Slobbery.TheRoad ofLife is feastooned with Dingleberries.
tlaniganschmidt 1 month ago
@tlaniganschmidt The "dingleberries" says it all really.
8DX 1 month ago
@8DX when in doubt..Scat references tend to unite us all...now i shall become a snob from another perspective..for i must find a way to.."burl erl in the terlit"..(boil oil in the toilet)...sad to say,the lingo of Swampville(aka my hometown) never was able to replace other sorts of English...BUTT..The vision of LIFE as an enormous AnalOriface festooned with festering filthy dingleberries is some how more home-spun & a feast of yucky yeast fermenting foibles into hemoroids of tiresome turds.
tlaniganschmidt 1 month ago
@tlaniganschmidt ...lets write for the sheer-joy of writing...what say you ?....as listless longings bulge reality into the performative-nexus...wha? it be so..i see so ..but hear these peckings on dis-page engage no sage..but wander wanting ...WHAT?...the sylvan shepards,engaging in non-romantic sexual-compulsions somehow convinced the city-folk that they were copulating with nymphs.Lurking songsters hid in the thickets of warm wooley dingle-berries.from this thus this is.amen.
tlaniganschmidt 1 month ago
sex can feel good just as sex.We bring sublime expectations to sex.These are multiple overlaping sublimes.There is the Aesthetic-Sublime,where animality is raised to a symphonic level...this is represented in & through Baroque &Rococo Art Forms.An example is,Bernini's StTeresa in Ecstasy,which can be seen as a swooning orgasmic climax....but ..that is tempered by its neoPlatonic Spirituality..where the Aesthetic-Sexual-Sublime is seen as transcendent Love & the ultimate Imago of BeatificUnion.
tlaniganschmidt 1 month ago
I really like this video! I think your point about patriarchy is bs though. If anything, modern governments are matriarchal (concerned with or promoting "female values").
Sivels 1 month ago
Interesting video. I'm not sure the quality and quantity aspects of sex are mutually exclusive. What if the natural male (or female too I suppose) urge is not to have as many vacuous sexual encounters as possible, nor a single genuine relationship, but as many meaningful sexual encounters as possible?
AHughman08 1 month ago
Well, im sorry to tell you but genetics support the fact that men are "cheating bastards". reason why latest common male ancestor is so much resent in bechsoe men are more promiscuet. its just a fact of life.
gethsoftware 1 month ago
very interesting analysis. Refreshing point of view. Do you write about this stuff, too?
The standing of women in a society is directly correlated with the advancement of this society. The implications of what you say can improve life in modern societies. Thanks.
NerollGermany 1 month ago
Pseudoevolutionary explanations? That statement only makes sense if you dismiss the theory of evolution! In most cultures throughout time (as far as we know) men have been more promiscuous than women. And it makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. The modern western culture is not unique in this sense. This is of course not to say that male promiscuity is necessarily something good or something we should promote just because our male anscestors were promiscuous. But, don't be ignorant!
buugiman78 1 month ago
if you know you satisfy all the women that been with then it makes it worthwhile. It shouldn't be just about you when you have sex with someone... come on man!!!! Just laying on top of a girl and just releasing your manhood into her couldn't make her or yourself feel satisfied. I know some guys just don't have any chemistry with any of the girls they sleep with. It will be ok man, you will find that someone that has no chemistry with any guy she has ever been with and you will be a perfect match
mojomanhand 1 month ago
Nick is a ladies man...but not as much as Axl Rose.
synchronium24 1 month ago in playlist More videos from ContraPoints
If that's feminism, then I'm all for it. Then again, I was also fortunate enough to experiment with my sexuality in high school when this garbage wasn't so pervasive. I'm only 27 and I"m a bit worried as to how sexuality is going to be seen nowadays with these 'sociopathic' tendencies running amuck in the culture.
TheWhiteSquirel 1 month ago
You're kinda misrepresenting male promiscuity, or promiscuity for that matter.
bla34112 1 month ago
@bla34112 I'm representing one version of it. I'm not suggesting that everyone needs to engage in long-term monogamy all the time. Only that promiscuous sex that treats other people as belt-notches or accessories or otherwise less-than-human is a toxic way of behaving.
ContraPoints 1 month ago 2
@ContraPoints
While titling it "male promiscuity"?
You take an entire branch of sexuality, and then represented a tiny portion of it. I honestly don't know any, who behave, or see it the way you describe. Even Charlie Harper doesnt keep a fucking score.
No, what you represented was a caricature of male sexuality.
bla34112 1 month ago
I really feel the way you've expressed yourself. For a length of time I have. I thought I was one of very few who felt male promiscuity is an emotionally vacuous escapade.
UncomfortableSilence 1 month ago
Does anything make you feel good or truly satisfied? If your life was nothing but a golden staircase, wouldn't you just wish it was a diamond-encrusted escalator?
BlindSoothsayer 1 month ago
I'd like to point out that you spent about 40 seconds saying what you don't want to say.
BlindSoothsayer 1 month ago
Interesting. I broadly agree, although "sociopaths" was probably a bit overboard.
Analyzing pop culture for such tropes can be very rewarding. One often finds one has been living one's life & thinking one's thoughts based on a script written by somebody else.
simplic1000 1 month ago 2
@simplic1000 " One often finds one has been living one's life & thinking one's thoughts based on a script written by somebody else." It's incredible, isn't it?
ContraPoints 1 month ago
When I joined a road band at age 21 (back in 1984), the anticipation of groupies was one of the most exciting aspects. And with my first groupie, the walk back to her apartment was in fact very exciting. But then when it came to the 'naked in bed' part--doing something so intimate with a stranger--yes, it surprised and even shocked me how empty it felt: kind of like I was just using her as a piece of meat to jerk off into.
ToddAllenGates 1 month ago 2
@ToddAllenGates It's amazing how the things you want and the things you like (once you get them) can be so opposed to one another.
ContraPoints 1 month ago
While I agree with many of the evolutionary psychology theories, what i find interesting is that it ends up placing our behavior into a box while at the same time being advertised as open minded. I think when we say "this is how we are by nature" you can draw a parallel to how some religion states "this is how god made us". I don't think it's the answer to any of our problems. Just because something is advertised of as rational, does not mean it always is.
gary12211 1 month ago
@gary12211 That sounds right to me.
ContraPoints 1 month ago
The Continent welcomes you even as you feign to look away ;)
GodlessXVIII 1 month ago
Fellini's "Casanova" and both "Alfie" movies outdo Mozart. You must know that there are people who are incapable of intimacy. You might be one of them. Relationships have become as complex as Pop Culture. Perhaps you should join a cult with spiritual values.
gimbutas1 1 month ago
Maslow was spot on about this issue.
iviewthetube 1 month ago
It is difficult for me to fathom how any behavior is not of evolutionary origins, including memes.
iviewthetube 1 month ago
@iviewthetube
Indeed all behaviour is trivially of evolutionary origin, the key word being trivially. Likewise, all behaviour is of chemical origin. The question is whether evolutionary theory is going to help you understand behaviour X. Sometimes it will, often it won't.
Usually this is because behaviours are the result of complex social factors that are several steps removed.
simplic1000 1 month ago
@iviewthetube There is a sense in which all behavior is of evolutionary origins, but that sense is, as simplic1000 said, rather trivial. As you get more specific, telling an evolutionary causal story becomes less and less useful. The posting of YouTube comments, for example, is not something we "evolved to do," but here we are doing it.
ContraPoints 1 month ago
@ContraPoints
Yet our comments on YouTube reflect the behavior we evolved with.
iviewthetube 1 month ago
@ContraPoints
Since you mentioned YouTube and the internet, I suspect that technology will greatly change the course of human evolution.
iviewthetube 1 month ago
Feminism, Masculinism are useless. Can't we just drop the labels?
Let's all be champions for equal rights across the board.
geometrololi 1 month ago
@geometrololi It's not just a matter of rights though. It's a matter of the space society pushes various groups into, which is often something that the laws-on-the-book have little to do with.
ContraPoints 1 month ago
The first half is the men inclusive, but then the second half you switched position to an anti-male position. Being all-inclusive is hard.
MexxPowers 1 month ago
is this vid redundant? ive got the impression that you've repeated the same statement for 3 times.
77616e6b79 1 month ago
If you don't believe in a biological reason which resulted in this social expectation for men then I suppose you believe there were other social factors that led to define these mores. If so, what are they?
Also I don't know which men you were talking to, I suppose it depends on the culture of people you are asking. Generally the men that I know that are promiscuous from time to time say they want a serious relationship but in reality they only want that to take a short break from promiscuity.
CappitranoBellephant 1 month ago
I think, for men, virginity is just a component of status (pardon my vocabulary if I have poor word choice) whereas for women, there's actually a change to their genital structure in a small way. Even then, it's negligible and just another part of the same statistical game. The whole part about the "numbers game" you said really sparked my interests. That sounds oddly accurate. Thanks for your videos man.
IntricateDolphin 1 month ago 6
*existence, sorry, too much french lately, bad reflex...
MathijsMoonen 1 month ago
There's enough evidence showing that thinking about this in a rational way is, actually, more in line with what evolution intended for us to do, or at least it turns the argument into something irrelevant simply by the existance of it.
MathijsMoonen 1 month ago
This is why I don't even attempt to bond with a girl unless it's completely organic which it rarely is. I'm still a virgin and I have never been in a real relationship because these are the things I see and I want to find something real. It's a mindfuck though because I still feel an irrational pressure to find a girl and I still have irrational anxiety about being a virgin because I see friends gain so much confidence from losing their virginity.
IntricateDolphin 1 month ago
@IntricateDolphin I appreciate your honesty and I think your virginity is beautiful and very manly.
theRoseofmyheart 1 month ago
@IntricateDolphin I feel the same way. It's a sort of disillusionment to see other males championing their conquests and people speaking contumely about the concept of a male virgin.
I don't want intercourse with no strings. I want to connect emotionally with someone. What's wrong with that?
UncomfortableSilence 1 month ago
My inner evolutionary psychologist says no and fights and screams, but my higher reason reaches strong and fast and "favourite" is clicked.
I've had the conflicted urge: the simultaneous desires of wanting a girlfriend and wanting as much sex spread across as many partners as possible.
niriop 1 month ago
I don't want to have sex with *as many* women as possible. I feel like I want as much sex/as high a quality as possible, and I would probably somewhat agree with your "quantitative" theory, but I don't think that necessarily demands as many partners as possible.
arknihil 1 month ago
Men who are burnt often end up being promiscuous to protect themselves. It isn't unusual to avoid intimate human interaction if you have a painful experience, espeically if this has happened to you on several occasions, or in a severe fashion. I find that many men are burnt terribly by their first love, and from there learn to treat women as expendable to keep them at bay.
RockingMrE 1 month ago
@RockingMrE That's probably true, and it probably happens for women as well.
ContraPoints 1 month ago
@ContraPoints I'm sure it does happen to women too, though I also think this intimacy issue is linked to childhood. That is probably of no surprise to many though.
RockingMrE 1 month ago
When it's not 'special', and you don't feel deep (not only physical) satisfaction, the whole experience is superficial. And when it happens often with different people, then it's not 'special'.
And, ok, guys, I don't mean necessarily feelings of love, or commitment, just sensuous feelings and concentrating on the person you are doing it with (I mean he/she being quite special for you).
I mean what I'm saying, is it shouldn't be quite mechanical!
dewinthemorning 1 month ago
@ContraPoints Please don't talk about feminism all the time. I know you have moved on from what you used to do on your channel (which I liked) but just because you don't think in those black and white terms any more, now you are just pointing out exceptions and saying generalizations are wrong. Yes, a generalization about humans is always potentially problematic but to reject all generalizations is not helpful either.
sheert 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The majority of males on YouTube that are promoting the idea of random hook ups admit to not being able to attract a female partner for a random hook up so it was more their fantasy. On the other hand, you're priorities/goals are honest and commendable. The coat is fabulous and you're gorgeous. You should be telling us because truthfully, you are one of the only guys out there getting random girls by charm.
Buntzums 1 month ago
@Buntzums He is beautiful and very charming (and witty, too!)
theRoseofmyheart 1 month ago
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Buntzums 1 month ago
I think that men in all cultures want to have sex with as many women as possible, which would suggest it is more genetic than cultural.
KevinSolway 1 month ago
I was always under the impression that Leporello was really at the core of the work... for the very reasons you discuss from 7 mins onwards...
VoiceClassical 1 month ago
A much more articulate expression of almost exactly what I've been trying to get across to people for the last couple years, thank you. Random hookups and shallow promiscuity aren't empowerment, it's the quintessential objectification of BOTH people/sexes, and I have a hard time believing that it doesn't leave both people feeling used by both themselves and the other person and emotionally drained.
Floridanon407 1 month ago
I don't think promiscuity will satisfy someone for long. Nor is settling down with someone forever. It's kind of like drinking where you have to do it a couple times to find your limit. Sometimes you go overboard and regret it, but ultimately you find the moderation that allows indulgence and satisfaction without the regret.
xaicho 1 month ago
Which would you rather have? Ten mediocre fucks or one really really phenomenal fuck???
ezmereldagreen 1 month ago
I've never seen the attraction in random hook ups. I don't see anything wrong with it, so long as both (or more than two I suppose) parties are aware that that is what is happening. However it's not for me. A lack of emotional connection means it's really only about sensation and frankly you might as well masturbate. I enjoy an actual relationship much more and get really annoyed when people imply I'm less a man for thinking so. But as I said, to each their own.
GriffinPilgrim 1 month ago
I don't think that feminism is opposed to the interests of men. However, there are many feminists who will deny that men do face legitimate problems, saying that men are never discriminated against or that there are no instances where men are treated unfairly, which is simply not true. In fact many people seem to think that by saying you are a "Men's Rights Activist" that you are sexist and just want men to gain power over women again. It's not the ideology, but the people that cause the divide.
deemo665 1 month ago
subscribed!
georgemc25 1 month ago
I would enjoy sex with varied women if I could, as opposed to being single.
I would prefer sustained relationships whether monogomous or polyamorous over sex with strangers.
The harm is any unrealistic & outright contradictory expectations, studs vs virgins ideals. I also find it bizarre that guys pursuing women, exclusively for sex, can have meaningful relationships with men. They are neccessarily limited by expecatations on themselves.
kommissarw 1 month ago
Oh mother of armchair diagnosis, really, people who enjoy sex with multiple partners are "sociopaths"? That's quite the assumption, why do you feel the need to ascribe your own discomfort with some of your past actions to everyone?
KrissytheWorldWithin 1 month ago
Why can't the answer just be that some people like having sex with multiple partners, some don't. Some people like to be monogamous, some people go through different phases of monogamy and then promiscuity, and some people are completely asexual. Sexuality is a spectrum, I would think that the goal of feminism would be to broaden the spectrum of what is an acceptable sexuality for both genders not constricting it by saying that the desire for sex with multiple partners is always a false one.
KrissytheWorldWithin 1 month ago
I find your comment about the quantifying of male sexuality to be very interesting. I find that in many other areas of life, not just sex, that males also seek quantification. Males tend to be better at quantitative reasoning and subjects like math and science compared to more females in the emotional subjects like literature or culture studies. This quantitative vs continuous idea seems to be inherent in the way male and female minds tend to work. There are exceptions of course.
zhangvict1 1 month ago
I never understood why so many people need to feel as though sex and love are completely inseparable. Sometimes love accompanies sex and sometimes it does not.Neither sex has anything to feel ashamed simply because they enjoy the physical pleasure of sex without being in love.Having said that, I do think it is ridiculous that some men feel the need to "rack up numbers" as if it some type of sporting event.
ryan84160 1 month ago
I think that dismissing the evolutionary psychology behind it is incorrect. To me that is the core motivation behind this behaviour. The culture we live in can either serve as catalyst or inhibitor to this "drive". I agree that today's western culture is definitely promoting this. I think casual sex can be good and bad.it's mostly about how both partners are really into it at that moment. but the best sex, in my experience, is with someone you know well and are emotionally involved or in love.
wonderpope 1 month ago
oh and evolution doesn't give a damn about long term happiness, it is only concerned with replication.
greycloud24 1 month ago
perhaps you dismiss the evolutionary biology and the sexual selection process of male promiscuity but i do not. much of our early written history is full of polygamy. men died during wars and hunting, and the remaining men took in the women for wives (emphasis on the plural term). it is very likely that the human species was much the same before we invented writing. that is a very long time of men that desire to sleep with many women having the most children.
greycloud24 1 month ago
This is why alcohol is bad :(
thruthem 1 month ago
Where does the feminism come in in your talk about relationship over a sex mmorpg? You throw in a little bit of evolutionary psychology thing in the beginning, but I didnt feel you addressed anything, your example was a nifty story about how Mozart is creating rapists, you seem to me to be comparing two extremes and overlook the mid area, you have swinging couples and a wide variety of mid area lifestyles. Who fucks only for "physical needs" anyway? I feel you left the gray area unaddressed.
suvaline02 1 month ago
Of course we are more than our biological programs.All instincts(imperative or not)are conceptually modified by humans so that their values have different social-historical,and subjective(perspective)meaning...including love.If natures goal is just survival then there is no "natural value" beyond survival,all other value is left to Ideological conception and subject to ever evolving tools and ever evolving social/subjective evaluations.
Thereminator101 1 month ago in playlist Liked videos
In nature at least, larger, intelligent mammals go for quality, not quantity.
MusicalEutopia 1 month ago
@MusicalEutopia The thing is sex is just like any other addiction. If you treat it as something you strive your life to get you'll be dissatisfied. If you have some fun with some awesome chicks, damn I don't know what this kid is talking about.
RuinSonic 1 month ago
I'm pretty much anhedonic and so this guy at work asked me today why I was so happy. I assured him I wasn't, and he insisted I was, and then he asked if I got laid, and said it must have been that. There's this idea that intercourse is THE ONLY thing that matters or can bring happiness or mellow you out
4jonah 1 month ago
Thank you for this. This idea has wrecked (not damaged) me, and its caused me to retreat as far away from human relationships as possible. I simply feel disconnected from society, so I'm glad to hear someone say what you did
4jonah 1 month ago
I think it's a mistake to declare what's "best" and what's "damaging" regarding sexual desires. It's not a one-size-fits-all kinda thing.
I basically feel as you do, and have always felt this way. I've usually described it as "sex without intimacy is like going into a pastry or coffee shop where the aromas drive you crazy, but nothing has any flavor. It's disturbingly disorienting." Meaningless sex is better than a kick in the head, but w/o intimacy, there's no meaning... it's all "whatever".
VeryEvilPettingZoo 1 month ago
Gah! Could you hurry up with your points?!
TheLonelyImmortal 1 month ago
This is why lust is a sin~ :3
Great video, thank you.
jawgraphy 1 month ago
I don't feel that way when I do it. It depends on the encounter but then again, I've been sleeping with men and I don't know if that is a factor.
Enuvrack 1 month ago
You dismiss the evolutionary psychology explanation. Why? I know you said that it was because you don't think it's true, but that doesn't really mean anything.
TheLaughingOut 1 month ago
what i dont agree with us your statement in the beginning regards feminism on a whole, the primary feminism was a good thing, so in the pre ww2 era, they were legit, they vowed for equality by law(they might be called super libertarians if you will) the feminists from the 60's on were not, they are marxists, all legistlation requested and lobbied was done by using mens weaknesses and abusing chivalry for their gain, the whole sytem we have now is build of male disposability. i want equal laws
MGsven 1 month ago
i mostly agree, i also dont get statisfaction from sleeping with lots of women, ive been able to break free, i just want an emotional connectiion, now i have my child and really i cant understand guys my age(24) still sleeping around and such. since indeed, a one night stand is such an emotional disconnect that even escorts give more love then a one night stand
MGsven 1 month ago
The evolutionary psychology factor has a bigger contribution than you let on. But I broadly agree with you. Call me cynical, but men will never take up this attitude en masse, it's almost something you have to learn with age, and thus can never really appreciate until you've made the mistake yourself.
CitizenOccidens 1 month ago
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CitizenOccidens 1 month ago
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CitizenOccidens 1 month ago
FUCK BROS.
BetterLivinThruJesus 1 month ago
Don Giovanni is an emotionally moving opera, esp when one considers Mozart's personal life at the time when it was written.
phenixwryter 1 month ago
If your expectations of one-night-stands weren't met, maybe your expectations were unreasonable.
Sleeping around isn't totally fulfilling. Likewise, monogamy, if you stick with it long enough, will leave you wanting more at some point or another.
They're both satisfying AND unsatisfying in their own ways. An individual must find a balance that suits him or her. Sometimes that means frequent partner changing, open relationships, being with one person for a certain period of time, etc
lintpicker07 1 month ago 16
@lintpicker07 But monogamy is a bit like a game of doubles in tennis, with the right partner who understands and respects you the bond can be very potent. You only get out of something what you put in, though if the other person in the relationship doesn't have the mindset to stick at it they will quit when the going gets tough. Sleeping around gets very boring after a while, and leads to a very cold attitude when it comes to intimacy.
RockingMrE 1 month ago
@lintpicker07
or "maybe" it means that it simply isn't fulfilling.
insidetrip101 1 month ago
@lintpicker07 I agree with every word of this!
pinkally1986 1 month ago
Well I never had the desire to play number games and yeah I kind of always felt it's a bad generalization when other guys tell me it's biological. No. Really biology and some half-assed pseudo-darwinian arguments are just used to justify behavior. And if we look around, the number of men who life-long do this hunt is small, and the number of guys who try to find meaningful relationships is pretty darn large. But the narrative of the few gets perpetuated.
socrates856 1 month ago
I see nothing wrong with promiscuity, other than health safety. I dont think setting your goal as "as many as possible" is a goal i agree with, but to ruling out less emotionally connected relationships is a needless addition, from my perspective. As I have aged, i desire more long term relationships, much more in line with a a modern "husband and wife" scenario, but i think it has a lot more to do with life goals. Desires havent changed, just curbing them to fit a life plan, like having a child
Neeboopsh 1 month ago
I don't think the issue is that men want to sleep with as many women as possible. It wouldn't be hard for most men to have sex with lots of unattractive women or prostitutes. I think it's different from man to man, some men are legitimately happy having sex with many women, and some aren't. Most men want to be successful with women, and that definition will differ to everybody. In my experience, everyone is contributing to this trope, from men that glorify it to women that "reward" it.
deemo665 1 month ago
@9:17 Speak for yourself. You're inappropriately universally universalizing here. Many of us (male and female) can have short term hookups and not feel that sense of angst.
iamcuriousblue 1 month ago
Oh, I see. We're just sociopaths. Jesus, where are you getting this SHIT from?
iamcuriousblue 1 month ago
1) Whatever is wrong with "promiscuity"? 2) What is your evidence that the urge to fuck around isn't hard-wired? Can you provide examples of societies where men avoid short-term hookups when they can get them? 3) It seems to me that if anything, inequality means women's sexual choices have been *held back* and that they too have more sexual partners when not stigmatized for doing so. What's your solution? Repress everybody?
iamcuriousblue 1 month ago
The one night stand kind thing is rarely very satisfying because I think you have to know the person reasonably well for either of you to have any idea what you'd be into sexually, and you have to be comfortable enough with each other to be able to communicate what you want without worrying that the other person is going to judge you for it. At the same time, once you're in a relationship, it's like sex becomes mandatory and uninteresting. My preference is FWB or sex with ex-GFs.
TheMessianicManic 1 month ago
I've never had any great desire to sleep with a lot of women, I've always just wanted a companion. The last couple of years have been very difficult for me because even though I'm unattractive physically, sex is still easier to find than emotional connection. It's amazing to me that everyone claims to want this genuine affection but are never ready to provide it or find it difficult to accept when offered. Maybe that is a side effect of the damaging culture you're talking about?
hooloovoo1st 1 month ago
I think what you're really getting at here is the typical "grass is always greener" dynamic. Guys that are celibate or monogamous want to sleep with more women and guys that constanly sleep around usually get sick of it and eventually want to settle down. The real truth is that the grass is never green because you're always wanting something more or different regardless of what you have. Humans are never fully satisfied or happy. Sex is just one more example of that.
pawnstar3 1 month ago
If feminism is as pro-man as it is pro-woman, then why call it feminism?
jaydogg7253 1 month ago
TBH, I've never been interested in having sex with as much women possible. I rather was (yes, past tense) focused on having sex with the *most wanted woman*, so other guys would go like "you lucky bastard". Perhaps, somewhere subconsciously, it made me feel like I was good 'sexual hunter'. Pathetic really :)
abutnotantisocial 1 month ago
Having Asperger's my random hook ups were not vacuous, although it was more of a longer terms fwb. Most of my teens and early 20's I was obsessed with love. In fact it worked so well had I not met my significant other, I had pretty much given up on love. Not sure I'd get into a relationship again considering how complicated the social give and take of a relationship is. It takes a special girl to deal with us.
anubis2814 1 month ago 2
I've been waiting for this video for so long. Thank you so much. I really needed someone in the atheist community to understand this issue properly.
NathanEmanuelS 1 month ago
I think people could connect emotionally with other people without sex. Thats just me.
Pentazoid111 1 month ago
Your description of that emotionally void aftermath of sex resonates with me. That's how I used to feel too before I realised I actually didn't want lots of sex. It seemed totally counter intuitive at first. I'd be interested in hearing why you disagree with the evolutionary explanation. I think the culture has exacerbated the already natural urge that's there. The natural urge causes our desire for sex. How we feel afterwards (evolutionarily) is irrelevant provided we continue doing it.
jakebowkett01 1 month ago 6
Well said and said well.
Loreleila 1 month ago
i've been thinking the exact same thing for the last couple of years. and its really cool to hear it said by you and from your perspective. i feel its unfair to treat other human beings like something you can add to your list, as you put it, thats why i've stopped wanting it. i'm kinda happy i didnt have to have my first real sexual encounter be just for the sake of it, it can still be a meaningful experiece for me, and that makes me glad.
lepthymo 1 month ago 2
@lepthymo It's best to have your first sexual experience with someone you know and trust.
ContraPoints 1 month ago
My speculation as to why men feel like they have to do this promiscuous thing when they're young and later regret it is because getting a few women pregnant and then settling down for more children is more evolutionarily successful than simply the latter.
StabbyRaccoon 1 month ago
The ones who can be the happiest having shallow relationships with a lot of women are probably going to be the ones who actually do so to an evolutionarily beneficial degree. You had a few hook-ups, not a dozen infrequent sexual relationships. Your sperm wouldn't be getting into that many vaginas, and the sperm that did would be competing with other men's sperm. Thus your best evolutionary "strategy" would be monogamy. Get a woman pregnant every year for 10 years, bam, lots of baby Nyks.
StabbyRaccoon 1 month ago
It looks like a lot of people, myself included, don't agree with the dismissal of the evolutionary explanation for the behavior. Having sex with lots of women is the "strategy" that produces the most offspring in the short-term, culture often has a biological origin. It's cultural because it's biological. One obvious truth that we all agree on is that this isn't necessarily what's best for our happiness, happiness isn't always produced by the ol' propagation of the genetics no matter the cost.
StabbyRaccoon 1 month ago
So what about the chicks that have multiple sex partners and don't tell me they don't excise on a large scale because i know a lot of them.
XBlackWolf10 1 month ago
youre having sex with someone who is pretty much a stranger and settling for something that amounts to a superficial connection. thats honestly all many people can handle, so they arent going to see anything wrong with it.
lambchopxoxo 1 month ago
What do you think of people who are virgins over 25 and who aren't interested in sexual intercourse? Do you think that is psychological damaging to an individual who voluntarily abstains from sex for non-religious reasons?
Pentazoid111 1 month ago
@Pentazoid111 Not necessarily. I would advise such people to look into the causes of their lack of sexual interest, but if they feel happy and fulfilled without sex then I don't necessarily see any problem with it.
ContraPoints 1 month ago
a couple of things... men cant be promiscuous without being able to find willing participants with which to "be promiscuous". i dont think there are an equal number of women that feel the same way, its probably those men either being deceptive about their motives, finding women that think that sex = relationship (it doesnt) and then the women that will have sex with men as frivolously (the minority of women). i'm always amazed at how quickly people jump into having sex.
lambchopxoxo 1 month ago
It's strange you would blame these things on culture which is true then you act as if this culture sin't heavly influenced by feminism. Have you not seen slut walks? Have you not seen feminist supporting women getting out there and dressing whorishly? I'm not blaming the victim, but how could you say that by doing such things they would be asking for the opposite of what someone who blames the victim would be saying? It looks like they are saying, look we are sluts accept us.
MirageScience 1 month ago
@MirageScience I'm not a huge fan of slut walks. I think they confirm all the paranoia of religious reactionaries and offer to replace traditional sexual norms with a low and aimless hedonism.
ContraPoints 1 month ago
in the absence of meaningful human connection I'll take what i can get.
commitmentissues 1 month ago
@commitmentissues As your user name suggests.
ContraPoints 1 month ago
It's more a matter of finding a compatible partner (starting with "physically", and then in other more intellectual ways). If you are pleased with your partner why would you want to have sex with anyone else? (Well maybe for the variety of it, but after a certain point you just feel too tired to do too much partner-hopping). But it's not that easy to find, and guys can still pretend to be playing "the game", while girls can still be branded whores, so in this way yes it is a cultural thing.
kirindechu 1 month ago
its inherintly opposed to men based on its actions. Any modern feminist that anywhere near intellectualy honnest should call themselves a humanist. I also don't define male sexualiy, infact I find that masculinity has a side effect of being strong enough to go indefinatly without sex. Now that's obviously not its defintion and nor is its defintion to service women, masculinity for me is defined by acomplishing as great of a feat imaginable for myself and for such feat to progress humanity.
MirageScience 1 month ago
@MirageScience I use the term "feminist" because I'm aligning myself with a tradition of criticism that opposes a social system that is historically and continuously male-dominated. That is not to say that patriarchy is good for men. It's just dominated by them.
ContraPoints 1 month ago
Why do you reject the evolutionary explanation for promiscuity?
KielFly 1 month ago
@KielFly i'll dump my thought on the subject here. It is not that there is no evolutionary reasons for promiscuity, it is that there are also evolutionary reasons for monogamous relationship. Those are different reproductive strategies and all men have both of them to different degrees in their genes. "Quality over quantity" of monogamous relationship is more appropriate for human beings and it is sad when culture does not appreciate that.
esaman 1 month ago
I don't think there's a natural biological imperative to have sex with as many women as possible" No. There is a BIOLOGICAL imperative to have sex with as many females as we [males] can that follows directly as a result of sexual selection theory. There isn't, however, a natural psychological imperative to do so. I don't think so, at least. But the biological imperative is a fact.
McTaggStar 1 month ago
This is bold. I've always trusted evolutionary psychologists, but I guess its important not to blindly accept information from ' trusted ' individuals. I'm going to force my boyfriend to watch this video :)
SandySweet575 1 month ago
@SandySweet575: There are a lot of valid critiques of evolutionary psychology/sociocbiology. An evolutionary psychology isn't impossible whatsoever, but in it's current state there are problems.
McTaggStar 1 month ago
@McTaggStar Agreed.
SandySweet575 1 month ago
I've also heard some people argue that the reason boys aren't being very loyal/grown up/good boyfriends is that there is growing disparity in the number of men and women getting a good education. Higher educated women are not very likely to settle for a less educated men, giving the men that are the luxury of kidding around longer.
Mentisia 1 month ago
@Mentisia In general we've got a man-child epidemic on our hands.
ContraPoints 1 month ago
This is why I like the option of an open relationship. The emotional connection paired with the benefits of outside sex TO THOSE WHO WOULD WANT IT.
<3
jadethevirginqueen 1 month ago
@jadethevirginqueen The open relationship looks great on paper. But in my experience it just isn't possible with someone you're actually in love with.
ContraPoints 1 month ago
@ContraPoints Which illustrates my point. You may not wish to pursue other avenues of pleasure, and that's your prerogative. This may not be so for others who choose to experience it. Not all these situations are subject to accusations of sociopathy, as you noted.
jadethevirginqueen 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Your argument is unconvincing for two basic reasons:
1. You don't cite any studies demonstrating either that male promiscuity is cultural in origin or that promiscuous men are less happy.
2. Most traditional cultures practice polygyny, which if anything suggests that remaining faithful to one person and treating this person with what modern westerners consider "decency and respect" is a modern invention of slave morality as espoused by Christians and Feminists.
TheAntiEgalitarian 1 month ago
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TheAntiEgalitarian 1 month ago
I find it weird that so many people think men want to have sex with lots of girls without any emotional relationships being formed. I don't like to be physically intimate with girls I don't feel attracted to. Maybe I'm part of the exception, idk.
LtShock 1 month ago 3
people with bipolar disorder are also known to have a hyper sexuality. It's not just psychopaths
Mentisia 1 month ago 2
@Mentisia True. And manic hypersexuality is probably not especially healthy either.
ContraPoints 1 month ago
If a man is naturally supposed to spread his seed as far as possible, how would he be able to protect and feed all these children to make sure they survive? If men are naturally not supposed to create an emotional attachment with these partners, what would drive him to protect and feed his children to make sure they survive? It's a silly misandrous idea that we're 'programmed' to act this way.
FishofMuu 1 month ago 3
@FishofMuu No, you're misinterprenting whole sexual relationship theory of evolutionary psychology. Google: buss and schmitt (PDF) it's a study about long-term and short-term relationship status.
TheBoomshaker 1 month ago
@TheBoomshaker No, I'm talking about this idea we have in our culture that not only are men only interested in sex without commitment, but that we are incapable of having otherwise, and that only men do it. If men truly acted in the way we are vilified, we would have never survived as a species.
FishofMuu 1 month ago
I want to have sex with a lot of women, but I'm not interesting in counting and competing. I think you're giving culture too much credit.
Another problem is that many men these days desire intimacy only because they're insecure, and have distant mothers. So they're only interested in unhealthy dependent relationships with women who can replace their mothers.
JackofOneTrade567 1 month ago
Why you dismiss evolutionary psychology? It's clear you haven't done deeper research. You only mentioned short-term male relationship strategy which you are disatisfied with. Read about long-term relationship strategy (which is what I guess you are currently seeking) and do your homework before making uneducated guesses about dismissing such an important subject as evolutonary psychology.
TheBoomshaker 1 month ago
isn't it strange that "becoming involved" is something completely novel, evolutionarily speaking.
MelleB90 1 month ago
What exactly are you trying to get across here. As someone who often falls opposed to feminism, I feel like I should be disagreeing here. But it seems like your point is that being a player is a bad thing, which probably isn't something you'll see very much disagreement from in any intellectual circle.
dausedman 1 month ago
( i dont know much about feminism or the male counterpart) there is nothing wrong with wanting to hump as many people as you want. for either sex. or who you have sex with or what you have sex with. >.>
and that opera kinda sounds like Zasaz from Batman "he has to get the mark, and liberate them from their lives."
MsRobotRock 1 month ago
You were drunk in this video
lovingsingleton 1 month ago
@lovingsingleton the proper term is: philosophically fueled
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