Wow! One man with irrational beliefs refuting other men with irrational beliefs. Christians vs Mormon is a much tamer version of Islam vs Judaism. A Christian making the polygamy argument?! I doubt he is aware that Christians practiced polygamy for 300 years after the New Testament. I never would have guessed I would be defending the LDS but this crazy whack job needs knocked off his high horse. News Flash: You're all crazy!
hahahahaha, you religious people, it's so funny to read these comments as if god is actually real. cmon guys, we've all had imaginary friends, but most of us have grown out of it by now!
The most interesting things about mormons for me, is that they don't use the JSV Joseph Smith Version Bible, most don't even know about it, why do you think that is, I know why that is, but why do you think that is?
@jreddoch1 - Hmm, growing up mormon, living in Utah, 97% of the people I work with are mormon, and not one of them knew about it when I asked. That is 100% of the mormons I know, that do not know about it, so "most" is an appropriate word to be used.
And maybe you would like to answer that question, being familiar with it.
@AnnymsVoice How about sticking to what you actually know. Try the phrase "most of the Mormons I know said they didn't know Joseph Smith has retranslated a lot of the Bible." I still think you're full of it because you probably ask in a way that is confusing. Every version of the LDS scriptures has the JST footnotes, Book of Moses, and JST Matthew and you actually believe most Mormons don't know those books are in there???
@jreddoch1 No, the "correct response" is to "content earnestly for the faith" Jude 1:3. I'll go with the Bible says, not what an indoctrinated Mormon says.
@EffieReal Then maybe you should get off your butt more than twice a year when they stop by. Or just fight the good fight when it's conveneient. That seems to be working for ya.
Born again = easy. Done and done. You think missionaries don't know about polygamy? Ha! Good one. Grace and works is a losing battle for you. Jesus trumps anything you think you read in Paul's writings about saying Lord, Lord to get into heaven. Try reading some of Christ's parables for a change, like maybe the one with the goats. It's like born agains refuse to acknowledge that Christ even said them.
This guy is funny,, listen, I'm not a mormon, but they have great intentions and they are good people who really beleive in their faith, so why pick on them, they are well protected from the pittfalls of the world because of their faith.
The Church is TRUE,If you have a problem with it then take it up with God,I mean,the Book of Mormon invites you to pray and ask God if it is true or NOT true.Ask Him for clarification,otherwise shut up because the persecution and ignorant vile mean hurtful comments get really old,take it up with God,He was there with Joseph,He will tell you,what your afraid of the answer you will get????
It's amazing how brainwashed they are. I point out all of the false prophecies of Joseph Smith, but yet they come up with absurd responses and you can never get them to think in a logical progression. I pointed out the false prophecy of David Patton, but they must have been told by the leadership that all the information out there about Patton's death, before the prophecy was fulfilled, is all wrong. It's truly frustrating.
@dorisfenella no shit. that's the point i just made. by agreeing with me, you're stating that your church being true is only an opinion and not fact. thanks.
Interesting logic this man is using. He does not expect you to ever actually ask a missionary any of these inflammatory questions because LDS missionaries are extremely knowledgeable. Go ahead and ask! He is simply telling whoppers so big you will be scared of the Church. I was baptized as an adult in 1979. Stop watching this junk and head over to the Mormon Channel on YouTube. You will find the Spirit there.
@gkelley38 No Head on over to UTLM.ORG. If you go to the mormon channel, you will find only satanic spirits and doctrines of devils: 2 Corinthians 11:4, 14,15.
1..mormons are born again...they just use a different termanology for it...2 mormons also believe they are saved by grace but that doesnt mean you can go rob a bank and say that its fine to do because "im saved by grace"...so you have to live a christ like life as well....all these people that bash other religions are the least christ like of any mormon i ever met
@chunny6rocks So using your twisted logic, Christians who believe that they are saved by grace only and apart from works, can in effect go rob a bank and say that is fine. Wow. do you get up real early to attend LDS seminary to hear this brainwashing crapola? Go read the NT book of Titus chapter 3 verses 4 to 11. Also Ephesians 2:8-10. That is what Christianity teaches. As Shawn succinctly points out, mormons have a warped concept of grace. Your words bear that out.
@chunny6rocks Mormons do not believe in being saved by grace. being a mormon to get into the "highest kingdom" you have to be married in the temple, pay tithing, wear your garments, be in the priesthood (for men only) , etc. that is not being saved by grace but by works.
And "You do it out of love..." If you actually had compassion or love then you'd let us believe what we want to believe. You have actually studied mormons for the sole purpose to try to bring us down. You're obviously of a different faith since you talk about converting people, what do you think God would think about you disrespecting another human-being like this only to fill them with confusion? You're more like an angel of Satan if you ask me...
I actually did research the church... There is absolutely positively no proof anywhere that Joseph Smith ever had more than one wife. It's all rumors that people like you who live for nothing except being prejudice to something different than you believe in have formulated to try to give us a bad name. People like you just make me sick...
I am born again Shawn, I was Baptized, I was put down into the water to represent death and born up out of the water to have been born again in CHRIST.
"I would that ye should come unto Christ, who is the Holy One of Israel, and partake of his salvation, and the power of his redemption. Yea, come unto him, and offer your whole souls as an offering unto him, and continue in fasting and praying, and endure to the end; and as the Lord liveth ye will be saved." Joseph Smith Jr.
My older son served a mission for the church and found it very rewarding. He told me that there were people who put him down, tried to get him riled, etc. He said that he could handle that, and that sometimes his companions couldn't. My son was a bit older, though--he served after college, so that made a difference, I think. Anyway, I'm very proud of him for serving a mission! He helped many people.
@Dadutta Oh for heaven's sake. You are twisting and turning things around and misinterpreting them. I'm a convert to the LDS church and I understand this. And I would not join some "wacky cult". I did my research. BOY did I do my research! This was a big step for me; I was the only person in my family to join the LDS church, and I received some flack from family and friends. I wanted to be sure I was making the right decision, so I learned the truth. That was over 30 years ago!
@Dadutta Jehovah witnesses do it too. A man and woman came to my door once and I told them I wasn't interested. The next week two young girls showed up to tempt me into joining the JW. Don't know if this is a normal tactic or not but it definitely did happen.
Mormons don't trust the Bible as they claim it hasn't been translated correctly... with the BOM having undergone nearly 3900 changes since it's invention, one can say also that it hasn't been translated correctly. When you open the BOM, which part can you trust?
Smith used his seer stone in a hat to ensure integrity of the translation of plates. IF and ONY IF the translation of each symbol was true without exception, then one symbol after the next until done. Why the changes to the BOM?
@54v115 he BOM having undergone nearly 3900 changes since it's invention, one can say also that it hasn't been translated correctly. When you open the BOM, which part can you trust?
Im interested to kno of these 4000 plus changes.
I do know that ther are also Many many translations/Versions of the Bible.If that be true then which versions shud we read and accept as True interpretations?Just wandering?
Your statement is not true nor do you have any scriptorial facts to support your claims that he is talking to these factions for adopting pagan practices, non whatsoever. Why would it matter to a so called modern day Christian anyway since all they believe in is grace and your saved. during the Reformation that was not the cry of the Reformers.
@scottwins2 - I've stated exactly where to look. You need to learn to be quiet if you do not know, or you're not as well read on the subject as others about you. Your faith takes a statement mid-argument and creates a ritual for it. Your final question.. screams ignorance... You need to be quiet as you're embarrassing yourself and your creed.
Baptism for the dead was taught in the New Testament, you don't prcatice it in your church? Oh I guess not only one church does. you make want to look at Ephesians 2:19-20 "Else what shall they do which are Baptized for the Dead if the Dead rise not at all why are they Baptized for the Dead? this was in reference to the epesians when they were having trouble with the resurestion' Malachi, has a reference as well. lds.org or fairlds.org
@scottwins2 I'm guessing that is out of a Mormon Bible version? Eph 2:19-20 (KJV) -(19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone)... I don't see a hint of any topic of baptism anywhere... much less baptizing the dead... Please don't try to bear false witness of the scriptures...
@wittyname88 Little quick on the on the false witness thing? I made a mistake Corinthians 15:29 Else WHAT SHALL THEY DO which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? 1 Corinthians 15:35 But some [man] will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
@scottwins2 My apologies... sent you a private message, for some reason it wasn't letting me post what i typed out. possibly because it had a link in it?
@wittyname88 I don't see a hint of any topic of baptism anywhere... much less baptizing the dead... Please don't try to bear false witness of the scriptures.
It says "Ye are no more strangers' Thats bcos they wudve alredy received their baptism.Christ said Himself that No Man can enter His kingdom except he be born of the watewr and the spirit and receive the ordinance of baptism.Simple
@wittyname88 . I don't see a hint of any topic of baptism anywhere... much less baptizing the dead
Again it is baptising FOR the dead Not OF the dead.Big Diff.Christ again said that unless we receive baptism we Cannot enter His Kingdom.So what of the millions who have Never heard of Christ and His saving Gospel.They have died without baptism So theyll never hav the chance to hear and accept the gospel and have that chanc to Enter the Kingdom now will they.Hence baptism For the dead.
@scottwins2 - Are you saying that Eph. 2: 19-20 conveys a message for Baptism for the Dead? It tells me that Gentiles who are not God's people, are now all God's people through Christ and the cross. If we believe in Him, and through Him, we all have citizenship through Christ. No mention or contextual reference to Baptism for the dead. We are One in Christ....
@54v115 No mention or contextual reference to Baptism for the dead. We are One in Christ....
Not in that verses but Christ himself said ...unless we are born of the water nd the spirit we can in no wise Enter His Kingdom.Simple.So the people mentiond in Ephesians must have been baptised.
@scottwins2 The only place Baptism for the dead is mentioned in the New Testament is 1 Cor 15:29. And contextually, it is considered by Christian based religions to be Apostle Paul correcting an errant Christian faction for adopting and practising the Pagan ritual of Baptism for the Dead as was practised in Pagan Demeter and Persephone worship. It is not taught as a Christian practise by Paul, it is a statement used in argument to demonstrate the nonsense of conversion to Christ without belief..
@54v115 It is a statement used in argument to demonstrate the nonsense of conversion to Christ without belief..
How can one be converted to Christ without belief?If ya dont believe then yacant be converted.
The saints in Ephesus Were practising baptism for the dead as it Was a gospel Doctrine and paul is asking them.Why are you doing this if the dead Dont Rise.He didnt say Stop practicing it did he.Like I said.What of the millions who died without hearing or being Baptised.What of them?
@seymour442 did anybody know that these mormons idiots are baptizing your DEAD relatives and when we die they'll get us too.
They dont baptise your dead relatives.We baptise by proxy and in the end it is still up to that person in the spirit world to either accept or reject that ordinance.And the only person who will do a proxy baptism for yu when uve passed is someone who is a relative of yours.In most cases.
This video is pathetic. He only mentioned 2 things of what to say to missionaries.
1. Joseph Smith practiced polygamy.
2. Grace vs. Works.
I really don't see how those things can shake your faith. All believers of the Bible know that many righteous people in the Bible had more than one wife. And to LDS members, grace is sufficient for those who "do" what they should.
Confessing Christ as Savior = works
Loving God and others = works
Without doing those, good luck being a true Christian.
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast." -- Ephesians 2:8-9
@54v115 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast." -- Ephesians 2:8-9
Instead of attacking Mormons whereever you find them, when they offer to share the book of Mormon with you, say no, & go along your merry way? I have heard all of what you said & more many times, but it's just like in the Bible when people were following the words of old Prophets & refusing to listen to the new ones: we still have modern-day revelations that we adapt into our church & some contradict older things. Like: once only white men could hold the priesthood. Today all men can.
@BaurakAle7 I give up with you man,you just keep refusing to have an open mind and try to understand why we believe what we believe and why we do what we do.Stop your obsession of finding fault and pointing fingers etc. and let us help you to understand us,why we are what we are.I sure love ya!!!
Instead of attacking the Church,let us try to find some things we agree on and find a common ground.This arguing is only bringing in contention and a harmful spirit,it gets you nowhere,why not try to understand,we are not a bunch of demons.we are followers of Christ...
@broncofan57 Thank you! I don't understand why mormonism is so attacked. We believe in Jesus Christ, that he is our savior. We believe in God, our Heavenly Father. We believe that we have to try to be the best we can possibly be. We believe that partaking of harmful substances is a sin. We believe in marriage between a man and a woman. There are worse thigns being taught by other religions! We need to find the good, not condem or trick each other. The true spirit of Chirst is LOVE. I'm LDS
@Chaniebear22 It is because they are afraid that they might find out it is TRUE and then have to change.I was raised Catholic and I converted at the age of 21 and then a year later served a mission,3 yrs. after that my older sister accepted the Gospel and I was honored to Baptize her and the world keeps on spinning,we have a message of Love an Peace,to to good to all men,and to some that just aint good enough,they would rather attack than try to just understand why...
@broncofan57 That it true, they're affraid. That is an awesome story! What an amazing thing that must have been to baptize your sister! I was born and raised in the church, for which I am so greatful to my parents. They raised me in truth so that I wouldn't be like these individuals who are arrogant and affraid. I don't understand why LDS is percieved as such a terrible cult. Our message is of love, peace, redemption, and slavation! Isnt' that the base of all Christian belief?
@BaurakAle7 Do you hear yourself???!!!Of course I read the Bible, I LOVE the Bible,I also LOVE that I have another Testament of Jesus Christ,it teaches me to do good and to follow Christ,why the attacks,why the persecution?
@BaurakAle7 What in the world is your problem?When did you become God all mighty to ask me these things?When was the last time I sinned??!!Is that any of your business??!!I think you have some serious pride issues.Now I fear for you.
@BaurakAle7 No dear brother you are NOT evil neither am I,we are both sinners,in need of the atonement of Jesus Christ,He alone is the ONLY way,upon Him I lay every burden of mine.He has taken this upon Himself for my very sake and yours,this is what the Church that I attend teaches.To come to Jesus and live!!This is Easter weekend,let us always remember what the Father did for His children,He gave His Son,Jesus Christ to save us all!!
@broncofan57 No dear brother you are NOT evil neither am I,we are both sinners,in need of the atonement of Jesus Christ,He alone is the ONLY way,upon Him I lay every burden of mine.He has taken this upon Himself for my very sake and yours,this is what the Church that I attend teaches.To come to Jesus and live!!This is Easter weekend,let us always remember what the Father did for His children,He gave His Son,Jesus Christ to save us all!!
@broncofan57 No dear brother you are NOT evil neither am I,we are both sinners,in need of the atonement of Jesus Christ,He alone is the ONLY way,upon Him I lay every burden of mine.He has taken this upon Himself for my very sake and yours,this is what the Church that I attend teaches.To come to Jesus and live!!This is Easter weekend,let us always remember what the Father did for His children,He gave His Son,Jesus Christ to save us all!!
@BaurakAle7 Testified of His divine sonship."Are we stripped of pride and envy?","...,is there one among you that doth make a mock of His brother,or that heapeth upon Him persecutions?","Woe unto such a one,for He is NOT prepared and the time is at hand that He must repent or He can NOT be saved!" Alma 5:27-31
@BaurakAle7 A person who professes to be Christian would NEVER do what you just did but rather condemn it.,"A proud man is always looking down on things and people,and of course,if you are looking down,you can not see what is above you." C.S. Lewis.The behavior of the Savior on the cross represented the ultimate of restraint when He refrained to responding to mockery.There was no show of angels or eloquence of words in His defense.Pride was consumed by charity.His quiet demeanor in suffering...
@BaurakAle7 You don't mean to be mean??!!Well what you said was pretty mean and hurtful.You tell me I am evil and to admit that I am evil??You don't even know me and have NEVER met me,easy to say behind a computer huh?What about your sinful nature in how you just judged me and labeled me,yeah that sounds reall Christlike.Then you have the gaul to tell me to find out that I am Evil??What you are doing is just mean adn vile in itself,this sounds like something that would come from Satan....
@BaurakAle7 man I think you have some serious problems that need attending to.It's pretty easy to say these things behind a computer screen is it NOT?I will ALWAYS trust in what I have felt and recoknized.What I have pondered within my heart.I am a happy person and you desire to take this from me,that is clearly under the direction of Lucipher Himself.I would be miserable without this Church,and Satan desires us to be miserable like Him,Please stop these mean attacks please.
@BaurakAle7 Huh??Do you hear yourself?This is NOT the Church of Joseph Smith,I trust in Jesus Christ,what is your problem?This is The Church of Jesus Christ.
@BaurakAle7 "Why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brothers eye,but considerest NOT the beam in that is in thine own eye?"Matthew 7:3 though we may see ourselves as better then those we critisize,in reality they are as precious in the Lords sight as we are."If we find ourselves feeling superior to our neighbor,we likely have forgotten that we also have sinned and come short of the Glory of God." Roman 3:23...
@BaurakAle7 Christ commanded,"I will forgive whom I will forgive,but of YOU,it is required to forgive ALL.",Be careful of the barbs you throw,The last words of compassion that Jesus spoke while on the cross were,"Father forgive them,for the know NOT what they do."Beware when finding fault in others.Distorted perception,stalled progress and lack of mercy are only a few of the spiritual hazards of finding faults with others.
@BaurakAle7 What is your deal?3 witnesses,Old Testament,New Testament,Book of Mormon,Another Testament of Jesus Christ.So is to testify of Jesus now a bad thing??I trust in the witness I have received from God's Holy Spirit.Who are you to judge and cast stones,is your life so perfect and so pure and so free from sin that you can make these judgments,Beware of this....
@BaurakAle7 Read ALL I wrote to nepthu,once again,I invite you to read the story of the Adulterer and think about that.Why are you now casting stones?Are you so pure and FREE from ALL sin that YOU can judge?Reflect on your own life,I don't know as to if ANY of these claims are TRUE,what I do KNOW is that,I have three witnesses of Jesus Christ,they teach me to good and testify of Christ,I KNOW where they came from and TRUST the witness I received from God's Holy Spirit,that is what I trust in.
Do research into the LDS Church at mormon think. com and wives of joseph smith.org
Bronco, you have done no research and have no looked into the FACTS, which are 1) Joseph Smith married a mother & a daughter at the same time. 2) Smith married other men's wives 3) Smith lied about his polgamy in public.
@Nepthu Where the freak do you get your mis-information?You have failed time and time again to produce references to these rediculouse acusations,I was playing with you to try and make a point,guess you missed that,I am NOT dilusional either.Did you even go to the Church website lds.org,to see the answers to what you claim,not hiding anything,get off your high horse man,your obsession with this is your undoing.
@broncofan57 Hey I just gave you two websites with FACTS. You're such a joke. I give you hard DATA, and you keep repeating your testimony, man. Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall! You haven't refuted ANYTHING yet you keep saying you have. I think you're delusion. visit mormon think . com and wives of joseph smith .org for the truth!
I tell you the church lies, and you tell me to visit their official website. You're a JOKE!
@Nepthu "The lashing of the whip breaketh the skin,but the lashing of the tongue breaketh bones,this is NOT of Christ,brethren these things ought NOT to be...",I will admit,I could have made my point in another way.At NO time did I EVER lash out at you with such evil speakings and personal taunts and insults.One who claims to be Christian and then speaks this way should be ashamed especially this week!!
@Nepthu Read this with GREAT prudence.I offer you the story of the Adulterer since you seem to want make these acustations and remind you to beware of what you are doing.They brought the woman before Jesus accusing her of this crime,some who were even guilty of the crime them self WITH her?Jesus drew a line in the sand,and saith,"Let He who is WITHOUT sin,let Him cast the first stone.",The crowd left,then Jesus saith unto the woman......
@Nepthu Continued,"Where are thine accusers?,neither do I condemn thee,now,go thy way and Sin NO more.."
You my friend fall under this danger,are YOU free of all sin??Who are you to judge?You should be MORE concerned about your own life than anything Joesph Smith may or may NOT have done.This is of NO importance to you,that will be between Him and God,there were other Biblical Prophets who did some BIG sins after they received MUCH.Remember,there was ONLY one perfect man to EVER....
@Nepthu One perfect man to EVER walk this Earth,JESUS CHRIST!!You are NOT the judge of Joseph,or of me or anyone else.However you ARE accountable for YOUR actions,beware.Fortunatly,there is a way when we fall short,Jesus showed the way.The stones you casted at me bounce off.I condemn you NOT either,I can't,I weep for you though,and pray your heart softens,but ma in NO need of an apology,Jesus also taught,"I will forgive whom I will forgive,but of YOU,it is REQUIRED to forgive ALL." Try that....
@Nepthu Beware of the spiritual hazards of fault finding,Distorted perception,stalled progress and lack of mercy are only a few of the spiritual hazards of finding fault with others.When you start down this road,you begin to view the world in a more NEGATIVE way,till eventually,you don't trust ANYTHING,people around will be viewed in negative ways,you soon lose sight of things that are good.I oray that you begin to look for the GOOD,Let God deal with those who He will deal with...
@Nepthu This whole experience has given me GREAT cause to reflect on my own life and what I need to do to better myself,to look for the GOOD in others,and cast out the neagtive things which only bring bitterness and misery.How does God view His children,was Joseph Smith NOT one of His creations?Does He NOT love Him as he does you?Think and fall back on the teachings of Christ this Easter weekend,I know you can do better,but drop this obsession,think of what i said about fault finding,God Bless!
@broncofan57 Ha! I get the joke now. You lied about your job to show you're lying now. You're not even a Mormon. LOL! Good one! Mormons usually present better information than you do, so I see it's all an act. Ha ha! Telling me to visit the church's official website to learn about their deception was a good one! Hey Bronco, show us your secret underwear, man! LOL. Great joke!
So Shawn what would you FEEL if you found out that ALL your saying is complete crap that you can NOT backup??HMM?!!People,go to lds.org,in the search box,type in,Did Joseph Smith practice polygamy,or polygamy itself,you'll be SURPRISED at what you find,loads of Historical references ALL backed up and more.The Church is NOT and NEVER has hidden ANYTHING.Stop attacking and get a life!!
WOW... this guy is SO cool. Talking about being saved by grace or works, while shoving his head in the proverbial toilet and *loving* it. Super cool guy, total thumbs up and I'm sure that's going to help his salvation more than being a part of the largest charitable organization in the world.
@ksmay71 I know,some people are just so insanely bitter.The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is TRUE,Christ Church restored,Joseph Smith WAS a Prophet,We have Prophet on Earth today in President Thomas S. Monson,The Book of Mormon IS Another Testament of Jesus Christ,it goes with the Bible.We thank thee oh God for a Prophet to guide us in these Latter-Days,and thank the for sending us the Gospel,to enlighten our minds with its rays!!!!
religion you are suppose to take parts of because the paranormal is true, there might a god, but these books are all created by man. Every man is corrupt, have sinned, and has thought of a lustful situation. but you know why? because we are animals. We evolved that way. There is a god. but all he did was start everything. Dont follow what a man wrote on a book. Just know your stuff and live your life like how you should be. if you worry about afterlife so much, well, you arent living
Shawn may I be the first to say that your a Moron!You cite these stupid claims with nothing to back it,I could make up some good stuff if I wanted to myself.However,your claims are tasteless and lack evidence,just where do you get your info?Get a life jerk!The Book of Mormon and the The Church is TRUE,you don't like that,then take it up with God,otherwise SHUT UP!!!Its NOT about Joseph Smith,its ALL about Jesus Christ,you seem to forget that while you are too busy attacking the Church...
@broncofan57, you say it is not about Joseph Smith, yet your whole religion stems from his very claim to be a prophet called of God. I talked with Mormons recently and they were quick to tell me about how wonderful the book of mormon and Jesus Christ were, but when I pressed them about their prophet and his many missteps, I sensed a bit of discomfort. The real truth is that without your beloved treasure hunter, the Mormon religion as we know it wouldn't exist.
@money4412 Its NOT and NEVER has been about Joseph Smith,He even said Himself that it was NOT HIS Church.Joseph Smith WAS a Prophet,a chosen tool of God to restore the Gospel.Joseph Smith was just a man also,not perfect like any of the other Biblical Prophets.Get over it man,why won't you accept the TRUTH that is front of your eyes?Treasure hunter??!!He's NOT Indiana Jones,give me a break!The Church is TRUE,if you don't like that,take it up with God!
@broncofan57, lies, it has been clearly documented (by his own mother and town witnesses) that Joe and his father were dubious treasure hunters that used "peep stones" in their adventures. Joe Smith was even arrested for it after his revelation from God. And don't say that the LDS isn't about Joe Smith, if it wasn't for his deception, your church wouldn't exist and you know it.
@money4412 I have heard this junk all before over and over again,but there is NO proof or documents to be found.If they liked to search for artifacts on their own,WHO REALLY CARES??!!Last I checked,that was NOT a crime.What deception?WHERE?You fail to back up your claims.Look at me 15 years later and I am still a member,seen it all heard it all,bit I am NO fool,I know the scriptures,along with what I have experienced,and that is good enough fro me,I would school you if we were in person..
@broncofan57 Furthermore,I don't think you even believe in God.If you look close;y at the Bible you will find that ALL the Prophets and Apostles were just men as well,but chosen by God.There were lots who failed at times,like we all do,but that NEVER changed the fact they were still Prophets,if they fell away,then they were taken from their place,I know Joseph Smith made some mistakes,still does NOT change the fact that He translated The BofM.Your claims are weak...
@broncofan57, yes I understand you have heard and probably ignored what these troubling matters should tell you, great cities and wars with no artifacts is impossible and if they were true, the church would be the first to point it out. And about schooling me in person....maybe on the book of mormon b/c I wouldn't dare read it, but the Bible I would be comfortable talking with you about it. I wasn't antimormon by the way until an elder told me I was a "lost soul" for never had reading the BOM.
@money4412 Sorry someone called you a lost soul,that is just NOT cool.Misinformed maybe.Just how many artifacts have been uncovered to Prove the Bible true??I LOVE the Bible,but you need to understand what Faith is,Don't be so anti.Look at it this way,we have a Bible GREAT,but we also have another witness of Christ,what is wrong with that?You need to actually read The BofM,you have NOTHING to lose by just reading it,you wont catch any plague,what are you so afraid of??
@broncofan57, I wouldn't call myself antimormon, some of the genuinely nicest people I know are Mormons. Mormons do alot of good things for people as well, I just disagree with their doctrine.
what does knowing how many wives joseph smith have to do with my salvation? dude stop living in the past and worry about yourself and your life... have u ever read the part in the bible about Jesus and his example???
@mannypatino85 Exactly. Using this logic, it's unimportant to know facts about Joseph Smith's life. Who cares about his wives, lies about polygamy, banking scheme, and drinking habit? Just go with your gut, no facts necessary!
@ 2:10 Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
The book of Mark shows Shawn is wrong...as usual. Yes, we're saved by grace. However, in Mark we learn that it's by believing in Christ AND being baptized. Baptism is a work. What about in John 3:5 where Jesus said "except ye be born of water and then of the Spirit ye cannot enter the kingdom of God"? Again, baptism is a work and Jesus showed how important it is.
Wow!The LONG thing I just wrote is backwards,you have to scroll down and start with the bottom and then work your way back up,you cant read it from top to bottom.Not sure why that is,does this make any sense??
@dfausti66 I'm not sure what you're asking in the comment you address to me. You may have cited the wrong youtube user. I never mentioned anything about that? My comments were defending the LDS Church
I really like the other points you bring up in your other comments though! Awesome question and discussion...it really got me thinking about some things.
Talk from Boyd K Packer, Mormon Apostle, at BYU...
"Church history can be so interesting and so inspiring as to be a powerful tool indeed for building faith. If not properly written or properly taught, it may be a faith destroyer…
"There is a temptation for the writer or the teacher of Church history to want to tell everything, whether it is worthy or faith promoting or not. Some things that are true are not very useful…"
Let me guess. The bad LDS stuff falls under the "not useful" column.
@Nepthu Don't you think the history of christianity is interesting also with all those wars, destruction, criminal behavior, priestcrafts, power networking, etc? Do all of these acts make your christian beliefs wrong, tare down your faith and hope for a better life, or are they better left unsaid. They exist in truth, yet they may also not be useful in relation to your faith. Is this a good example of what Boyd K. Packer offered?
@dfausti66 The difference is that Christians actually ADMIT the problems in their past. Mormon Leaders, instead, instruct their people to IGNORE their own history. If Joseph Smith was a prophet, his history warrants study, but your leaders say not to talk about it!
It makes me sick that you talk about LDS polygamy and compare it to Abraham. Did Abraham marry women who were ALREADY married? Did he marry a mother AND a daughter? Did Abraham deny his polygamy in public like Smith? No!
@Nepthu I am clearly not ignoring the past with you and I have no idea what your talking about on that one!
I think I am beginning to understand the basis of your frustration here:
1. There are three different church's that call themselves Mormon: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, and the Restored Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Incidentally, the first two recognize Joseph Smith as a prophet.
@dfausti66 My frustrations is when Mormons such as yourself don't acknowledge that their history is messy. All you've done is deflect it by saying, "Other churches have problems too." We're talking about this particular Church. Joseph Smith's polygamy is NOT the same as OT polygamy. Be honest and accept that your church makes mistakes. Don't try to cover it up or change the subject.
@Nepthu Ya know,as you read the Bible,there are also a lot of "Messy" things that happened,I mean the history of what happened to Jesus was "messy".I am GREATFUL for Jesus,but look for the GOOD this Church does today,are we NOT "Ye shall know them by their fruits.."?Think about it,I invite you to actually read the Book of Mormon,ask God if this be true,ask if it's NOT true,read Galatians chapter five,trust in the fruits of the spirit my friend...With LOVE,big hug your way friend ;o)
@Nepthu Its the individuals within the Church,the good things that are brought forth by faithful members applying the teachings of Jesus Christ.So who cares if there are Church apologists?The Gospel remains the same and true regardless of what man does because we are NOT perfect.Look at the BIG picture,it is NOT about you,it is about the will of God and trusting Him,be obedient,He wont; lead you astray,Satan has gotten a hold of you and confused you,this is how he works,very skillful and crafty.
@broncofan57 It's not the apologists who are the problem--it's when they hide the "bad fruit" under the guise of "not everything that's true is useful."
Now I'm expected to believe in a Church that has clearly misrepresented things. Look above and you see someone comparing LDS polygamy to Abraham's polygamy. Did Abraham marry women who were ALREADY married? Did he marry a mother AND a daughter? Did Abraham deny his polygamy in public like Smith? No!
@Nepthu 1st.Do you have afacebook page,I think it would be easier that way.However I do care about your concerns and desire to help you find some answers in an effective manner.Ya see,and this may get long,but I need to say what is on my mind.1st off,I am a convert of almost 15 years,served a Mission in kentucky,returned and 3 years after returning,I was honored to baptize my older sister,I baptized my niece as well in Nov. 08,my cousin joined out in Texas in Jan 08 and currenty attends BYU....
@Nepthu ..So the Church is growing in my family.I have found in my life as a member,many ups and downs,my faith has been tested at times,like yourself,I have questioned some things at times,but I am the type of person who desires answers,I search until I find what I am looking for,it takes time and patience.I have ALWAYS found my answers though,time and time again and my testimony grows stronger EVERY time.I learn more and and my faith increases as yours can as well,I have heard just about...
@Nepthu Everything you can think of from an ant-standpoint and they have ALL been dispelled as simply NOT true accusations.My dear dear friend,to answer your recent comments,may I say you seemed somewhat obsessed over this thing with Joseph smith,you make these statements but then fail do back them up with out any proof,I am NOT a Church history scholar,but I find you are mis-informed and mis-guided.I have heard this all before and much more,and every time,there is NO proof to back these claims
@Nepthu What do you mean by "Apologists"?I am NOT sorry or apologetic for my testimony.You can find "Bad Fruit" in almost anything if your looking for it,there is a ton of bad history of bad events with in the Bible,yet I still read it and learn from it,this is an imperfect world with imperfect beings,ALL but one that has walked the Earth was NOT perfect,that was Christ alone.To be a pessimist and look for bad rather than good is when you get lead astray....
@Nepthu So just show me some organization out there that IS perfect,I don't think the Church claims to be perefect,however,Christs word and Gospel is,when Joseph Smith lost a portion of the manuscripts he was severly chastised by the Lord for being dis-obedient.I too have made mistakes,but thank goodness for repentance that when we mere mortals screw up,no matter what our calling may be,we have a way back,Joseph Smith NEVER claimed to be perfect.We are all going to make mistakes,but....
@Nepthu That is when we dust ourselves off and try again and follow the on that is perfect.Maybe my comparison to Abraham's polygomy was a bad comparison,but does that really matter?Has Christs word been destroyed or become untrue because of what Abraham did?I don't know why they practiced that,its NOT important to my salvation though.It is NOT the gospel of Abraham,its the gospel of Christ.Then you say,trust in God's word not Josephs???!!Well let me see here,when I read the Bible....
@Nepthu I am reading the word of God,the things in the Bible are the words given to prophets that we should hear,some things Abraham may have done in his personal life may not be there because they are NOT relevant.The Book of Mormon also testifies of Jesus Christ and the Bible,fall back on the basics my friend,of Faith and Repentance,stop trying to look for the bad,look for what this Church does today that is good you may be surprised...
@Nepthu Stop judging and trying to find fault,that gets you NO where,but think,am I free of ALL sin to judge like this?Is my life so perfect that I can say these things,NOT what Jesus taught,"Where are thine accusers?","Neither do I condemn you."Don't condemn us.This Church has brought me GREAT peace and happiness,why would you want to take that from me,mye heart aches at the very notion,I know with ALL my heart this is TRUE,I dont go around trying to make excuses for something that may have....
@Nepthu or may not have happened in the past,but try to learn from it,don't dwell so much on some past events,leave it in the past and focus on NOW.How can we help help one another and serve each other,NOT attack and divide.I KNOW what I have felt as I have read the scriptures,I have experienced much and can't deny what I know to be TRUE.This is Christs Gospel,he loves us all.He teaches us to love one another.Go to the Father in prayer when you lack wisdom,just as Joseph Smith did....
@Nepthu I do trust in Gods word,all of what I have received and have yet to receive.The Book of Mormon teaches ALL men that they should do GOOD,is that such a bad thing?Re-read the Book of Mormon,re-read the Bible,go to God in sincere prayer,aks for His guidance and Holy Spirit to testify to you the TRUTH.Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God,He translated the Book of Mormon which TRULY is Another Testament of Jesus Christ,I would be lost without this and the Bible,the give me direction....
@Nepthu They help me make my decisions and show me they way home to God.I hope this helps you,take my challenge and invitation to re-read the Book of Mormon,pray about it.Look at the good things that come from this Church,be kind and stop attacking us,you'll be happier when you put aside those negative things and ideals,that ALL comes from Satan,you have power over him.You have body,he does NOT.Come unto Christ,and He will show the way,I leave this with you in the name of Jesus Christ,Amen.
@broncofan57 I am not attacking you. I'm merely telling the truth. You want people to pray about a book that contains information Mormons themselves don't believe about the nature of God. The BOM says there is one God, and Joseph says there are MANY gods. Only one of these can be true.
@Nepthu I'll give you this,If I was some idiot off the street,and had NOT had the experiences I have had,and NOT found the answers I have found,I just might believe.Well,I am NOT,Yes I invite people to pray about the Book of Mormon to know if it is true or NOT.Do the same for the Bible,James 1:5-6,read it and apply it.Sure there are many Gods,we have ONE eternal Father,but Elohim is pluralized,the greatest reward God offers us is to see HIm as he is and inherit ALL He has and become like him...
@Nepthu So are you telling me now that YOU know the very nature of God and KNOW EVERYTHING about HIM??Well if you do,please clue me in because I am still learning as I go,if you KNOW EVERYTHING about God then you must a God yourself,because we have NOT received and unlocked ALL the mysteries of God.Get over yourself,this aint all about you.We came here to receive a mortal body,learn and grow,Christ showed the way,and has redeemed us ALL,if we will only take upon us His name.You are attacking me.
@Nepthu I find GREAT peace and happiness withing this Church and you want to take that from me so you can justify yourself?That is just mean in itself and selfish of you,I found this one thing,it has brought upon me GREAT blessings and JOY and you want me to abandon that??!!Why?!!That sounds like something Satan woudl say,he wants us to be miserable,well, I would be miserable without this Gospel,with out this Church,why would you do that to anyone,shame on you,your better than that are you NOT?!
@RedSun875 So just WHY are you ripping on my testimony now?Read Galatians 5:22-23,those are the feelings of the Holy spirit,that is what I feel.Of course I testify that Christ is my redeemer,that it is about God's will you half wit!Try to NOT go around ripping on a persons tesimony and rather applaud that atleast they have one,that was just COLD!
@broncofan57 First off, that is fruit of the spirit as in your attitude towads others not feelings towards doctrine, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, googness, faithfullness, gentleness, self control. Against such there is no law. Gal 5:22-23
Quite unlike your anger and arrorgance in calling me a half-wit right now. But such is the Mormon way when challenged.
@broncofan57 It is NOT my God!Its about feeling the Holy Spirit,it that NOT allowed now??What?I can't have feelings??!!This sounds like something Satan would say,who are you to say who my God is and who I worship,what and what NOT I can't feel??!!!Go away your just a mean person...
@Nepthu The BOM says there is one God, and Joseph says there are MANY gods. Only one of these can be true.
And the Bible also says ther are gods many and Lords many but unto us there is But One....etc does it not?If the Father be God Jesus be God and thge Holy Ghost be god then there ya have 3 Gods do you not?
@broncofan57 I have read the BOM. The scary part to me is that the church teaches things the BOM doesn't. Missionaries ask you to pray if the BOM is true, and then they add things to it left and right.
@Nepthu Your full of it!!Just what do they add too it??I was a Missionary and NEVER added things to it,come up with something better,I think the only one making things up is you,cause I have NEVER experienced the garbage you are coming up with.
@broncofan57 What happened to your Christian love? Please don't get emotional. Do you want an answer or not?
Here's a quick list of things the Church ADDS to the BOM: God is MARRIED, God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are separate beings--this goes directly against BOM passages--secret temple ordinances, eternal marriage, becoming your own god, Kolob.
The list is too long. I literally don't have space to say how much you add to the BOM! Most is kept from investigators.
@Nepthu Christian love?I am NOT the one attacking here.How do you know God does NOT have an eternal companion??Is know that important to your salvation anyway?We don't believe the Trinity,because its FALSE doctrine,who was Jesus praying to?Himself??!!And just what BoM passages are you trying to cite?List them.Secret Temple ordinances?Try SACRED,just like anciently,have you even been through the Temple?.....
@broncofan57 Bronco, there are NO sacred(secret) BOM passages to cite because the BOM does NOT mention having a Temple. However, the BOM DOES claim to be the "most correct book on earth."
Neither the BOM NOR the Bible says God is married. I told you that you add to the BOM, and I have provided numerous examples. First you say, "We don't add." Then you say, "What's wrong with adding that?" You make no sense.
@Nepthu Furthermore,are you telling me that eternal marriage is a BAD thing now??!!Become our own God??No we become LIKE Him and see Him as He is,NOT above Him,but what a GREAT reward that is!!Kept from most investigators??!"Line upon line,precept upon precept,here a lttle there a little.."When I was a missionary,we shared the principal of eternal marriage,families are forever,we did NOT go into deep doctrine because that is too much meat for beginners.NEVER hid it though if it came up...
@Nepthu I NEVER kept things and still don't keep things from investigators,but the most important is the 4 principals,Faith,Repentance,Baptism and the Gift of the Holy Ghost.What is your problem anyway??I challenge you to list at least 5 good things this Church does rather than attacking the Doctrine.Can you do it?I can and could list LOTS and LOTS,I wish I could talk to you on a more personal level,like maybe Face book.
@broncofan57 Please calm down, bro. I do not hate the LDS Church. It does many wonderful things like charity work, family home evening, etc. Those things do not make the church true. Again, my problem with the church is that it HIDES so much of its past, Joseph Smith's life and deep doctrines. No investigator I met EVER knew about the things listed above. I have told you that the Church should be more honest. This simple argument makes you angry? I'm sorry that people have hurt you.
@Nepthu You sure sound like you have a lot against the Church though.They are not hiding the past,but some things are just NOT necessary to know or vital to our salvation,and who really cares anyway?I have looked into the claims you made in the past,and found NO evidence to support them.But who really cares?The fact is,we have this GREAT witness of Christ,we have the Bible,and God has revealed more,what in the world is so bad about that??!!I have questioned EVERYTHING in the Church....
@broncofan57 earlier you said that the church ISN'T hiding anything. Now that I gave specific examples you say, "That's no necessary for my salvation." WHICH IS IT? You cannot have it both ways. You keep changing your stance,bro!
@Nepthu You gave specific examples with no proof,for all I know this could all be made up.The Church is NOT trying to hide anything.But some of the deeper doctrines,well they are good to know,but just NOT needed for our salavation,What is important is Faith,Repentance,Baptism,and the Gift of the Holy Ghost,I am getting sick of hiding behind a keyboard,I wish this was more personal.
@broncofan57 Look into your church history. Do some research. I haven't said anything that warrants a comment like "that could be made up." Can you name two of Joseph Smith's polygamous wives? Ask yourself why not. It's because the Church keeps much of the facts from you, and they tell you "it's not necessary for salvation" to keep you quiet.
Wow! One man with irrational beliefs refuting other men with irrational beliefs. Christians vs Mormon is a much tamer version of Islam vs Judaism. A Christian making the polygamy argument?! I doubt he is aware that Christians practiced polygamy for 300 years after the New Testament. I never would have guessed I would be defending the LDS but this crazy whack job needs knocked off his high horse. News Flash: You're all crazy!
tuckermurphey1 1 month ago
@jaylias The how do you think the world was created then jay?
DillPickle927 3 months ago
hahahahaha, you religious people, it's so funny to read these comments as if god is actually real. cmon guys, we've all had imaginary friends, but most of us have grown out of it by now!
jaylias 3 months ago
out of love? hmm your point is to try to give missionaries a hard time, if that's what Jesus taught you to do well done
xMarkuzx 3 months ago
The most interesting things about mormons for me, is that they don't use the JSV Joseph Smith Version Bible, most don't even know about it, why do you think that is, I know why that is, but why do you think that is?
AnnymsVoice 3 months ago
@AnnymsVoice If you think that most Mormons don't know about the JST, then you don't know Mormons. And how do you know what "most" Mormons know?
jreddoch1 3 months ago
@jreddoch1 - Hmm, growing up mormon, living in Utah, 97% of the people I work with are mormon, and not one of them knew about it when I asked. That is 100% of the mormons I know, that do not know about it, so "most" is an appropriate word to be used.
And maybe you would like to answer that question, being familiar with it.
AnnymsVoice 3 months ago
@AnnymsVoice How about sticking to what you actually know. Try the phrase "most of the Mormons I know said they didn't know Joseph Smith has retranslated a lot of the Bible." I still think you're full of it because you probably ask in a way that is confusing. Every version of the LDS scriptures has the JST footnotes, Book of Moses, and JST Matthew and you actually believe most Mormons don't know those books are in there???
jreddoch1 3 months ago
What if I was an atheist and you talked to me and I was already born again....then what?
loganhistorian 3 months ago
And why waste your listener's time: the correct response is "no thanks, I am not interested in listening to your message. Have a nice day."
jreddoch1 3 months ago
@jreddoch1 No, the "correct response" is to "content earnestly for the faith" Jude 1:3. I'll go with the Bible says, not what an indoctrinated Mormon says.
EffieReal 3 months ago
@EffieReal Then maybe you should get off your butt more than twice a year when they stop by. Or just fight the good fight when it's conveneient. That seems to be working for ya.
jreddoch1 3 months ago
@jreddoch1 LOL, cute ASSumptions.
EffieReal 3 months ago
Born again = easy. Done and done. You think missionaries don't know about polygamy? Ha! Good one. Grace and works is a losing battle for you. Jesus trumps anything you think you read in Paul's writings about saying Lord, Lord to get into heaven. Try reading some of Christ's parables for a change, like maybe the one with the goats. It's like born agains refuse to acknowledge that Christ even said them.
jreddoch1 3 months ago
This guy is funny,, listen, I'm not a mormon, but they have great intentions and they are good people who really beleive in their faith, so why pick on them, they are well protected from the pittfalls of the world because of their faith.
Robyshileileh 3 months ago
You'd be better off just saying, "No thanks. I don't want to talk religion."
THELDSLIFE 3 months ago
The Church is TRUE,If you have a problem with it then take it up with God,I mean,the Book of Mormon invites you to pray and ask God if it is true or NOT true.Ask Him for clarification,otherwise shut up because the persecution and ignorant vile mean hurtful comments get really old,take it up with God,He was there with Joseph,He will tell you,what your afraid of the answer you will get????
broncofan57 3 months ago
@broncofan57 you are the best!!!
negroczu 2 weeks ago
"But we do it out of... erm.. love!" legend!!!!
tattoodfreeek 4 months ago
It's amazing how brainwashed they are. I point out all of the false prophecies of Joseph Smith, but yet they come up with absurd responses and you can never get them to think in a logical progression. I pointed out the false prophecy of David Patton, but they must have been told by the leadership that all the information out there about Patton's death, before the prophecy was fulfilled, is all wrong. It's truly frustrating.
YHWHisSovereign 5 months ago
I'm no longer Mormon.
But because of shit like this, I'm also no longer religious.
BlizzagaLantean 5 months ago
Those jerks show up at my house too. Its not good.
lollipopfop 5 months ago
We the LDS have faith by the grace of God that results in works as a consequence.
Is this so difficult to understand?
dorisfenella 6 months ago
@dorisfenella that's just the opinion of the lds... is that so difficult to understand?
tamasandy 6 months ago
@tamasandy Well if you don´t realize we almost have only opinions here.
dorisfenella 6 months ago
@dorisfenella no shit. that's the point i just made. by agreeing with me, you're stating that your church being true is only an opinion and not fact. thanks.
tamasandy 6 months ago
@tamasandy wow bad word. Show us the good christian you are.
I talked about faith not about truthfulness of anything.
dorisfenella 6 months ago
@dorisfenella "bad word"? how old are you, 7?
i'm not a christian.
call it what you want. you have blind faith in something that isn't true.
tamasandy 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@tamasandy -I don't think you want to know truth, I mean spiritual truth your mind is closed to contradicts my faith . Sad really.
dorisfenella 6 months ago
Interesting logic this man is using. He does not expect you to ever actually ask a missionary any of these inflammatory questions because LDS missionaries are extremely knowledgeable. Go ahead and ask! He is simply telling whoppers so big you will be scared of the Church. I was baptized as an adult in 1979. Stop watching this junk and head over to the Mormon Channel on YouTube. You will find the Spirit there.
gkelley38 6 months ago
@gkelley38 No Head on over to UTLM.ORG. If you go to the mormon channel, you will find only satanic spirits and doctrines of devils: 2 Corinthians 11:4, 14,15.
BIGLOVE4TRUTH 6 months ago
BECAUSE HE WAS HORNY DAMMIT!!!
123abcpa 7 months ago
1..mormons are born again...they just use a different termanology for it...2 mormons also believe they are saved by grace but that doesnt mean you can go rob a bank and say that its fine to do because "im saved by grace"...so you have to live a christ like life as well....all these people that bash other religions are the least christ like of any mormon i ever met
chunny6rocks 7 months ago 2
@chunny6rocks So using your twisted logic, Christians who believe that they are saved by grace only and apart from works, can in effect go rob a bank and say that is fine. Wow. do you get up real early to attend LDS seminary to hear this brainwashing crapola? Go read the NT book of Titus chapter 3 verses 4 to 11. Also Ephesians 2:8-10. That is what Christianity teaches. As Shawn succinctly points out, mormons have a warped concept of grace. Your words bear that out.
BIGLOVE4TRUTH 6 months ago
@chunny6rocks Mormons do not believe in being saved by grace. being a mormon to get into the "highest kingdom" you have to be married in the temple, pay tithing, wear your garments, be in the priesthood (for men only) , etc. that is not being saved by grace but by works.
gutkesanchez 3 months ago
And "You do it out of love..." If you actually had compassion or love then you'd let us believe what we want to believe. You have actually studied mormons for the sole purpose to try to bring us down. You're obviously of a different faith since you talk about converting people, what do you think God would think about you disrespecting another human-being like this only to fill them with confusion? You're more like an angel of Satan if you ask me...
busterbean1997 7 months ago
I actually did research the church... There is absolutely positively no proof anywhere that Joseph Smith ever had more than one wife. It's all rumors that people like you who live for nothing except being prejudice to something different than you believe in have formulated to try to give us a bad name. People like you just make me sick...
busterbean1997 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
stop lying about my religion.
logontro 7 months ago
I am born again Shawn, I was Baptized, I was put down into the water to represent death and born up out of the water to have been born again in CHRIST.
"I would that ye should come unto Christ, who is the Holy One of Israel, and partake of his salvation, and the power of his redemption. Yea, come unto him, and offer your whole souls as an offering unto him, and continue in fasting and praying, and endure to the end; and as the Lord liveth ye will be saved." Joseph Smith Jr.
scottwins2 7 months ago
My older son served a mission for the church and found it very rewarding. He told me that there were people who put him down, tried to get him riled, etc. He said that he could handle that, and that sometimes his companions couldn't. My son was a bit older, though--he served after college, so that made a difference, I think. Anyway, I'm very proud of him for serving a mission! He helped many people.
cindybin2001 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
For an accurate depiction of the Prophet Joseph Smith's life, see:
Joseph Smith: Prophet of the Restoration here on Youtube. It is uploaded under MormonMessages
Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God, testifying of Jesus Christ and his Redemption.
Read the Book of Mormon, and learn of this truth. It testifies of the Son of God, the Redeemer of the World, our Savior Jesus Christ.
GreeneBellamy 7 months ago
"they will say almost anything---" how true!
A pair of missionaries once told me that Polygamy was a temporal order; well, aren't temporal laws evil according to the D&C....???
Dadutta 7 months ago
@Dadutta Oh for heaven's sake. You are twisting and turning things around and misinterpreting them. I'm a convert to the LDS church and I understand this. And I would not join some "wacky cult". I did my research. BOY did I do my research! This was a big step for me; I was the only person in my family to join the LDS church, and I received some flack from family and friends. I wanted to be sure I was making the right decision, so I learned the truth. That was over 30 years ago!
cindybin2001 7 months ago
@Dadutta Jehovah witnesses do it too. A man and woman came to my door once and I told them I wasn't interested. The next week two young girls showed up to tempt me into joining the JW. Don't know if this is a normal tactic or not but it definitely did happen.
Ebeneezerable 6 months ago
This is eerily similar to the Children of God cult of the 70's in that I'm pretty sure those girls were under age
Ebeneezerable 6 months ago
You did not
scottwins2 7 months ago
Mormons don't trust the Bible as they claim it hasn't been translated correctly... with the BOM having undergone nearly 3900 changes since it's invention, one can say also that it hasn't been translated correctly. When you open the BOM, which part can you trust?
Smith used his seer stone in a hat to ensure integrity of the translation of plates. IF and ONY IF the translation of each symbol was true without exception, then one symbol after the next until done. Why the changes to the BOM?
54v115 7 months ago
@54v115 he BOM having undergone nearly 3900 changes since it's invention, one can say also that it hasn't been translated correctly. When you open the BOM, which part can you trust?
Im interested to kno of these 4000 plus changes.
I do know that ther are also Many many translations/Versions of the Bible.If that be true then which versions shud we read and accept as True interpretations?Just wandering?
jferristube 4 months ago
Your statement is not true nor do you have any scriptorial facts to support your claims that he is talking to these factions for adopting pagan practices, non whatsoever. Why would it matter to a so called modern day Christian anyway since all they believe in is grace and your saved. during the Reformation that was not the cry of the Reformers.
scottwins2 7 months ago
@scottwins2 - I've stated exactly where to look. You need to learn to be quiet if you do not know, or you're not as well read on the subject as others about you. Your faith takes a statement mid-argument and creates a ritual for it. Your final question.. screams ignorance... You need to be quiet as you're embarrassing yourself and your creed.
54v115 7 months ago
wow, u all lost track of what jesus was saying around 1995 years ago. stop. think and listen to what ur talking about, please!!!
bovineuniversity1290 7 months ago
Baptism for the dead was taught in the New Testament, you don't prcatice it in your church? Oh I guess not only one church does. you make want to look at Ephesians 2:19-20 "Else what shall they do which are Baptized for the Dead if the Dead rise not at all why are they Baptized for the Dead? this was in reference to the epesians when they were having trouble with the resurestion' Malachi, has a reference as well. lds.org or fairlds.org
scottwins2 7 months ago
@scottwins2 I'm guessing that is out of a Mormon Bible version? Eph 2:19-20 (KJV) -(19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone)... I don't see a hint of any topic of baptism anywhere... much less baptizing the dead... Please don't try to bear false witness of the scriptures...
wittyname88 7 months ago
@wittyname88 Little quick on the on the false witness thing? I made a mistake Corinthians 15:29 Else WHAT SHALL THEY DO which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? 1 Corinthians 15:35 But some [man] will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
scottwins2 7 months ago
@scottwins2 My apologies... sent you a private message, for some reason it wasn't letting me post what i typed out. possibly because it had a link in it?
wittyname88 7 months ago
@wittyname88 I don't see a hint of any topic of baptism anywhere... much less baptizing the dead... Please don't try to bear false witness of the scriptures.
It says "Ye are no more strangers' Thats bcos they wudve alredy received their baptism.Christ said Himself that No Man can enter His kingdom except he be born of the watewr and the spirit and receive the ordinance of baptism.Simple
jferristube 4 months ago
@wittyname88 . I don't see a hint of any topic of baptism anywhere... much less baptizing the dead
Again it is baptising FOR the dead Not OF the dead.Big Diff.Christ again said that unless we receive baptism we Cannot enter His Kingdom.So what of the millions who have Never heard of Christ and His saving Gospel.They have died without baptism So theyll never hav the chance to hear and accept the gospel and have that chanc to Enter the Kingdom now will they.Hence baptism For the dead.
jferristube 4 months ago
@scottwins2 - Are you saying that Eph. 2: 19-20 conveys a message for Baptism for the Dead? It tells me that Gentiles who are not God's people, are now all God's people through Christ and the cross. If we believe in Him, and through Him, we all have citizenship through Christ. No mention or contextual reference to Baptism for the dead. We are One in Christ....
54v115 7 months ago
@54v115 No mention or contextual reference to Baptism for the dead. We are One in Christ....
Not in that verses but Christ himself said ...unless we are born of the water nd the spirit we can in no wise Enter His Kingdom.Simple.So the people mentiond in Ephesians must have been baptised.
jferristube 4 months ago
@scottwins2 The only place Baptism for the dead is mentioned in the New Testament is 1 Cor 15:29. And contextually, it is considered by Christian based religions to be Apostle Paul correcting an errant Christian faction for adopting and practising the Pagan ritual of Baptism for the Dead as was practised in Pagan Demeter and Persephone worship. It is not taught as a Christian practise by Paul, it is a statement used in argument to demonstrate the nonsense of conversion to Christ without belief..
54v115 7 months ago
@54v115 It is a statement used in argument to demonstrate the nonsense of conversion to Christ without belief..
How can one be converted to Christ without belief?If ya dont believe then yacant be converted.
The saints in Ephesus Were practising baptism for the dead as it Was a gospel Doctrine and paul is asking them.Why are you doing this if the dead Dont Rise.He didnt say Stop practicing it did he.Like I said.What of the millions who died without hearing or being Baptised.What of them?
jferristube 4 months ago
did anybody know that these mormons idiots are baptizing your DEAD relatives and when we die they'll get us too.
seymour442 8 months ago
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@seymour442 did anybody know that these mormons idiots are baptizing your DEAD relatives and when we die they'll get us too.
They dont baptise your dead relatives.We baptise by proxy and in the end it is still up to that person in the spirit world to either accept or reject that ordinance.And the only person who will do a proxy baptism for yu when uve passed is someone who is a relative of yours.In most cases.
jferristube 4 months ago
This video is pathetic. He only mentioned 2 things of what to say to missionaries.
1. Joseph Smith practiced polygamy.
2. Grace vs. Works.
I really don't see how those things can shake your faith. All believers of the Bible know that many righteous people in the Bible had more than one wife. And to LDS members, grace is sufficient for those who "do" what they should.
Confessing Christ as Savior = works
Loving God and others = works
Without doing those, good luck being a true Christian.
mistajosh2000 8 months ago
@mistajosh2000
your argument is with the guy who uploaded this clip and titled it...not the guy in the video.
YAAUFA 8 months ago
Mormons, generally, have been brainwashed to not think. Good luck!
schlegelt 8 months ago
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast." -- Ephesians 2:8-9
54v115 9 months ago
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@54v115 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast." -- Ephesians 2:8-9
What does it mean to be saved?
jferristube 4 months ago
There is a difference between quoting scriptures and exactly knowing what it means and quoting scriptures and adding your unfactual opinion.
TerroristKiller1 9 months ago
Instead of attacking Mormons whereever you find them, when they offer to share the book of Mormon with you, say no, & go along your merry way? I have heard all of what you said & more many times, but it's just like in the Bible when people were following the words of old Prophets & refusing to listen to the new ones: we still have modern-day revelations that we adapt into our church & some contradict older things. Like: once only white men could hold the priesthood. Today all men can.
LouisElegantRequiem 9 months ago
@BaurakAle7 I give up with you man,you just keep refusing to have an open mind and try to understand why we believe what we believe and why we do what we do.Stop your obsession of finding fault and pointing fingers etc. and let us help you to understand us,why we are what we are.I sure love ya!!!
broncofan57 9 months ago
Instead of attacking the Church,let us try to find some things we agree on and find a common ground.This arguing is only bringing in contention and a harmful spirit,it gets you nowhere,why not try to understand,we are not a bunch of demons.we are followers of Christ...
broncofan57 9 months ago
@broncofan57 Thank you! I don't understand why mormonism is so attacked. We believe in Jesus Christ, that he is our savior. We believe in God, our Heavenly Father. We believe that we have to try to be the best we can possibly be. We believe that partaking of harmful substances is a sin. We believe in marriage between a man and a woman. There are worse thigns being taught by other religions! We need to find the good, not condem or trick each other. The true spirit of Chirst is LOVE. I'm LDS
Chaniebear22 9 months ago
@Chaniebear22 It is because they are afraid that they might find out it is TRUE and then have to change.I was raised Catholic and I converted at the age of 21 and then a year later served a mission,3 yrs. after that my older sister accepted the Gospel and I was honored to Baptize her and the world keeps on spinning,we have a message of Love an Peace,to to good to all men,and to some that just aint good enough,they would rather attack than try to just understand why...
broncofan57 9 months ago
@broncofan57 That it true, they're affraid. That is an awesome story! What an amazing thing that must have been to baptize your sister! I was born and raised in the church, for which I am so greatful to my parents. They raised me in truth so that I wouldn't be like these individuals who are arrogant and affraid. I don't understand why LDS is percieved as such a terrible cult. Our message is of love, peace, redemption, and slavation! Isnt' that the base of all Christian belief?
Chaniebear22 9 months ago
@BaurakAle7 Do you hear yourself???!!!Of course I read the Bible, I LOVE the Bible,I also LOVE that I have another Testament of Jesus Christ,it teaches me to do good and to follow Christ,why the attacks,why the persecution?
broncofan57 9 months ago
@BaurakAle7 What in the world is your problem?When did you become God all mighty to ask me these things?When was the last time I sinned??!!Is that any of your business??!!I think you have some serious pride issues.Now I fear for you.
broncofan57 9 months ago
@BaurakAle7 No dear brother you are NOT evil neither am I,we are both sinners,in need of the atonement of Jesus Christ,He alone is the ONLY way,upon Him I lay every burden of mine.He has taken this upon Himself for my very sake and yours,this is what the Church that I attend teaches.To come to Jesus and live!!This is Easter weekend,let us always remember what the Father did for His children,He gave His Son,Jesus Christ to save us all!!
broncofan57 9 months ago
@broncofan57 No dear brother you are NOT evil neither am I,we are both sinners,in need of the atonement of Jesus Christ,He alone is the ONLY way,upon Him I lay every burden of mine.He has taken this upon Himself for my very sake and yours,this is what the Church that I attend teaches.To come to Jesus and live!!This is Easter weekend,let us always remember what the Father did for His children,He gave His Son,Jesus Christ to save us all!!
Simple beautiful truth
jferristube 4 months ago
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@broncofan57 No dear brother you are NOT evil neither am I,we are both sinners,in need of the atonement of Jesus Christ,He alone is the ONLY way,upon Him I lay every burden of mine.He has taken this upon Himself for my very sake and yours,this is what the Church that I attend teaches.To come to Jesus and live!!This is Easter weekend,let us always remember what the Father did for His children,He gave His Son,Jesus Christ to save us all!!
Simple beautiful truth
jferristube 4 months ago
@BaurakAle7 Testified of His divine sonship."Are we stripped of pride and envy?","...,is there one among you that doth make a mock of His brother,or that heapeth upon Him persecutions?","Woe unto such a one,for He is NOT prepared and the time is at hand that He must repent or He can NOT be saved!" Alma 5:27-31
broncofan57 9 months ago
@BaurakAle7 A person who professes to be Christian would NEVER do what you just did but rather condemn it.,"A proud man is always looking down on things and people,and of course,if you are looking down,you can not see what is above you." C.S. Lewis.The behavior of the Savior on the cross represented the ultimate of restraint when He refrained to responding to mockery.There was no show of angels or eloquence of words in His defense.Pride was consumed by charity.His quiet demeanor in suffering...
broncofan57 9 months ago
@BaurakAle7 You don't mean to be mean??!!Well what you said was pretty mean and hurtful.You tell me I am evil and to admit that I am evil??You don't even know me and have NEVER met me,easy to say behind a computer huh?What about your sinful nature in how you just judged me and labeled me,yeah that sounds reall Christlike.Then you have the gaul to tell me to find out that I am Evil??What you are doing is just mean adn vile in itself,this sounds like something that would come from Satan....
broncofan57 9 months ago
@BaurakAle7 man I think you have some serious problems that need attending to.It's pretty easy to say these things behind a computer screen is it NOT?I will ALWAYS trust in what I have felt and recoknized.What I have pondered within my heart.I am a happy person and you desire to take this from me,that is clearly under the direction of Lucipher Himself.I would be miserable without this Church,and Satan desires us to be miserable like Him,Please stop these mean attacks please.
broncofan57 9 months ago
@BaurakAle7 Huh??Do you hear yourself?This is NOT the Church of Joseph Smith,I trust in Jesus Christ,what is your problem?This is The Church of Jesus Christ.
broncofan57 9 months ago
Respond to this video...When we are harsh in our judgment of others,we are NOT able to receive comapassion and mercy our selves.
broncofan57 9 months ago
@BaurakAle7 "Why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brothers eye,but considerest NOT the beam in that is in thine own eye?"Matthew 7:3 though we may see ourselves as better then those we critisize,in reality they are as precious in the Lords sight as we are."If we find ourselves feeling superior to our neighbor,we likely have forgotten that we also have sinned and come short of the Glory of God." Roman 3:23...
broncofan57 9 months ago
@BaurakAle7 Christ commanded,"I will forgive whom I will forgive,but of YOU,it is required to forgive ALL.",Be careful of the barbs you throw,The last words of compassion that Jesus spoke while on the cross were,"Father forgive them,for the know NOT what they do."Beware when finding fault in others.Distorted perception,stalled progress and lack of mercy are only a few of the spiritual hazards of finding faults with others.
broncofan57 9 months ago
@BaurakAle7 What is your deal?3 witnesses,Old Testament,New Testament,Book of Mormon,Another Testament of Jesus Christ.So is to testify of Jesus now a bad thing??I trust in the witness I have received from God's Holy Spirit.Who are you to judge and cast stones,is your life so perfect and so pure and so free from sin that you can make these judgments,Beware of this....
broncofan57 9 months ago
@BaurakAle7 Read ALL I wrote to nepthu,once again,I invite you to read the story of the Adulterer and think about that.Why are you now casting stones?Are you so pure and FREE from ALL sin that YOU can judge?Reflect on your own life,I don't know as to if ANY of these claims are TRUE,what I do KNOW is that,I have three witnesses of Jesus Christ,they teach me to good and testify of Christ,I KNOW where they came from and TRUST the witness I received from God's Holy Spirit,that is what I trust in.
broncofan57 9 months ago
Do research into the LDS Church at mormon think. com and wives of joseph smith.org
Bronco, you have done no research and have no looked into the FACTS, which are 1) Joseph Smith married a mother & a daughter at the same time. 2) Smith married other men's wives 3) Smith lied about his polgamy in public.
Nepthu 9 months ago
@Nepthu Where the freak do you get your mis-information?You have failed time and time again to produce references to these rediculouse acusations,I was playing with you to try and make a point,guess you missed that,I am NOT dilusional either.Did you even go to the Church website lds.org,to see the answers to what you claim,not hiding anything,get off your high horse man,your obsession with this is your undoing.
broncofan57 9 months ago
@broncofan57 Hey I just gave you two websites with FACTS. You're such a joke. I give you hard DATA, and you keep repeating your testimony, man. Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall! You haven't refuted ANYTHING yet you keep saying you have. I think you're delusion. visit mormon think . com and wives of joseph smith .org for the truth!
I tell you the church lies, and you tell me to visit their official website. You're a JOKE!
Nepthu 9 months ago
@Nepthu "The lashing of the whip breaketh the skin,but the lashing of the tongue breaketh bones,this is NOT of Christ,brethren these things ought NOT to be...",I will admit,I could have made my point in another way.At NO time did I EVER lash out at you with such evil speakings and personal taunts and insults.One who claims to be Christian and then speaks this way should be ashamed especially this week!!
broncofan57 9 months ago
@Nepthu Read this with GREAT prudence.I offer you the story of the Adulterer since you seem to want make these acustations and remind you to beware of what you are doing.They brought the woman before Jesus accusing her of this crime,some who were even guilty of the crime them self WITH her?Jesus drew a line in the sand,and saith,"Let He who is WITHOUT sin,let Him cast the first stone.",The crowd left,then Jesus saith unto the woman......
broncofan57 9 months ago
@Nepthu Continued,"Where are thine accusers?,neither do I condemn thee,now,go thy way and Sin NO more.."
You my friend fall under this danger,are YOU free of all sin??Who are you to judge?You should be MORE concerned about your own life than anything Joesph Smith may or may NOT have done.This is of NO importance to you,that will be between Him and God,there were other Biblical Prophets who did some BIG sins after they received MUCH.Remember,there was ONLY one perfect man to EVER....
broncofan57 9 months ago
@Nepthu One perfect man to EVER walk this Earth,JESUS CHRIST!!You are NOT the judge of Joseph,or of me or anyone else.However you ARE accountable for YOUR actions,beware.Fortunatly,there is a way when we fall short,Jesus showed the way.The stones you casted at me bounce off.I condemn you NOT either,I can't,I weep for you though,and pray your heart softens,but ma in NO need of an apology,Jesus also taught,"I will forgive whom I will forgive,but of YOU,it is REQUIRED to forgive ALL." Try that....
broncofan57 9 months ago
@Nepthu Beware of the spiritual hazards of fault finding,Distorted perception,stalled progress and lack of mercy are only a few of the spiritual hazards of finding fault with others.When you start down this road,you begin to view the world in a more NEGATIVE way,till eventually,you don't trust ANYTHING,people around will be viewed in negative ways,you soon lose sight of things that are good.I oray that you begin to look for the GOOD,Let God deal with those who He will deal with...
broncofan57 9 months ago
@Nepthu This whole experience has given me GREAT cause to reflect on my own life and what I need to do to better myself,to look for the GOOD in others,and cast out the neagtive things which only bring bitterness and misery.How does God view His children,was Joseph Smith NOT one of His creations?Does He NOT love Him as he does you?Think and fall back on the teachings of Christ this Easter weekend,I know you can do better,but drop this obsession,think of what i said about fault finding,God Bless!
broncofan57 9 months ago
@broncofan57 Ha! I get the joke now. You lied about your job to show you're lying now. You're not even a Mormon. LOL! Good one! Mormons usually present better information than you do, so I see it's all an act. Ha ha! Telling me to visit the church's official website to learn about their deception was a good one! Hey Bronco, show us your secret underwear, man! LOL. Great joke!
Nepthu 9 months ago
So Shawn what would you FEEL if you found out that ALL your saying is complete crap that you can NOT backup??HMM?!!People,go to lds.org,in the search box,type in,Did Joseph Smith practice polygamy,or polygamy itself,you'll be SURPRISED at what you find,loads of Historical references ALL backed up and more.The Church is NOT and NEVER has hidden ANYTHING.Stop attacking and get a life!!
broncofan57 9 months ago
WOW... this guy is SO cool. Talking about being saved by grace or works, while shoving his head in the proverbial toilet and *loving* it. Super cool guy, total thumbs up and I'm sure that's going to help his salvation more than being a part of the largest charitable organization in the world.
ksmay71 9 months ago
@ksmay71 I know,some people are just so insanely bitter.The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is TRUE,Christ Church restored,Joseph Smith WAS a Prophet,We have Prophet on Earth today in President Thomas S. Monson,The Book of Mormon IS Another Testament of Jesus Christ,it goes with the Bible.We thank thee oh God for a Prophet to guide us in these Latter-Days,and thank the for sending us the Gospel,to enlighten our minds with its rays!!!!
broncofan57 9 months ago
religion you are suppose to take parts of because the paranormal is true, there might a god, but these books are all created by man. Every man is corrupt, have sinned, and has thought of a lustful situation. but you know why? because we are animals. We evolved that way. There is a god. but all he did was start everything. Dont follow what a man wrote on a book. Just know your stuff and live your life like how you should be. if you worry about afterlife so much, well, you arent living
bangbangshoodoo55 9 months ago
Shawn may I be the first to say that your a Moron!You cite these stupid claims with nothing to back it,I could make up some good stuff if I wanted to myself.However,your claims are tasteless and lack evidence,just where do you get your info?Get a life jerk!The Book of Mormon and the The Church is TRUE,you don't like that,then take it up with God,otherwise SHUT UP!!!Its NOT about Joseph Smith,its ALL about Jesus Christ,you seem to forget that while you are too busy attacking the Church...
broncofan57 9 months ago
@broncofan57, you say it is not about Joseph Smith, yet your whole religion stems from his very claim to be a prophet called of God. I talked with Mormons recently and they were quick to tell me about how wonderful the book of mormon and Jesus Christ were, but when I pressed them about their prophet and his many missteps, I sensed a bit of discomfort. The real truth is that without your beloved treasure hunter, the Mormon religion as we know it wouldn't exist.
money4412 9 months ago
@money4412 Its NOT and NEVER has been about Joseph Smith,He even said Himself that it was NOT HIS Church.Joseph Smith WAS a Prophet,a chosen tool of God to restore the Gospel.Joseph Smith was just a man also,not perfect like any of the other Biblical Prophets.Get over it man,why won't you accept the TRUTH that is front of your eyes?Treasure hunter??!!He's NOT Indiana Jones,give me a break!The Church is TRUE,if you don't like that,take it up with God!
broncofan57 9 months ago
@broncofan57, lies, it has been clearly documented (by his own mother and town witnesses) that Joe and his father were dubious treasure hunters that used "peep stones" in their adventures. Joe Smith was even arrested for it after his revelation from God. And don't say that the LDS isn't about Joe Smith, if it wasn't for his deception, your church wouldn't exist and you know it.
money4412 9 months ago
@money4412 I have heard this junk all before over and over again,but there is NO proof or documents to be found.If they liked to search for artifacts on their own,WHO REALLY CARES??!!Last I checked,that was NOT a crime.What deception?WHERE?You fail to back up your claims.Look at me 15 years later and I am still a member,seen it all heard it all,bit I am NO fool,I know the scriptures,along with what I have experienced,and that is good enough fro me,I would school you if we were in person..
broncofan57 9 months ago
@broncofan57 Furthermore,I don't think you even believe in God.If you look close;y at the Bible you will find that ALL the Prophets and Apostles were just men as well,but chosen by God.There were lots who failed at times,like we all do,but that NEVER changed the fact they were still Prophets,if they fell away,then they were taken from their place,I know Joseph Smith made some mistakes,still does NOT change the fact that He translated The BofM.Your claims are weak...
broncofan57 9 months ago
@broncofan57, yes I understand you have heard and probably ignored what these troubling matters should tell you, great cities and wars with no artifacts is impossible and if they were true, the church would be the first to point it out. And about schooling me in person....maybe on the book of mormon b/c I wouldn't dare read it, but the Bible I would be comfortable talking with you about it. I wasn't antimormon by the way until an elder told me I was a "lost soul" for never had reading the BOM.
money4412 9 months ago
@money4412 Sorry someone called you a lost soul,that is just NOT cool.Misinformed maybe.Just how many artifacts have been uncovered to Prove the Bible true??I LOVE the Bible,but you need to understand what Faith is,Don't be so anti.Look at it this way,we have a Bible GREAT,but we also have another witness of Christ,what is wrong with that?You need to actually read The BofM,you have NOTHING to lose by just reading it,you wont catch any plague,what are you so afraid of??
broncofan57 9 months ago
@broncofan57, I wouldn't call myself antimormon, some of the genuinely nicest people I know are Mormons. Mormons do alot of good things for people as well, I just disagree with their doctrine.
money4412 9 months ago
get your facts straight stupid asshole.
drewphuck1 9 months ago
what does knowing how many wives joseph smith have to do with my salvation? dude stop living in the past and worry about yourself and your life... have u ever read the part in the bible about Jesus and his example???
mannypatino85 9 months ago
@mannypatino85 Exactly. Using this logic, it's unimportant to know facts about Joseph Smith's life. Who cares about his wives, lies about polygamy, banking scheme, and drinking habit? Just go with your gut, no facts necessary!
Nepthu 9 months ago
@ 2:10 Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
The book of Mark shows Shawn is wrong...as usual. Yes, we're saved by grace. However, in Mark we learn that it's by believing in Christ AND being baptized. Baptism is a work. What about in John 3:5 where Jesus said "except ye be born of water and then of the Spirit ye cannot enter the kingdom of God"? Again, baptism is a work and Jesus showed how important it is.
majinish 9 months ago
I find it odd that people say we're brainwashed yet anti-mormons are taught how to talk to us. That's what brainwashing is.
majinish 9 months ago
Silly Christians Myths are for kids!
DieOrBlink 9 months ago
Wow!The LONG thing I just wrote is backwards,you have to scroll down and start with the bottom and then work your way back up,you cant read it from top to bottom.Not sure why that is,does this make any sense??
broncofan57 9 months ago
Real Christians don't put other people or their believes down. Debating about what you thinks right isn't going to make it true.
All you are doing by talking about peoples churches is sealing you fate when you have to stand before your maker.
I believe that truth can only be found when we search for it our selfs and ask god who will answer us if it be true.
If you have to put down the mormon so you can sleep well at night , So be it!
We are all judged on our own actions.
cumeil 9 months ago
@dfausti66 I'm not sure what you're asking in the comment you address to me. You may have cited the wrong youtube user. I never mentioned anything about that? My comments were defending the LDS Church
I really like the other points you bring up in your other comments though! Awesome question and discussion...it really got me thinking about some things.
austindressman 10 months ago
Talk from Boyd K Packer, Mormon Apostle, at BYU...
"Church history can be so interesting and so inspiring as to be a powerful tool indeed for building faith. If not properly written or properly taught, it may be a faith destroyer…
"There is a temptation for the writer or the teacher of Church history to want to tell everything, whether it is worthy or faith promoting or not. Some things that are true are not very useful…"
Let me guess. The bad LDS stuff falls under the "not useful" column.
Nepthu 10 months ago
@Nepthu Don't you think the history of christianity is interesting also with all those wars, destruction, criminal behavior, priestcrafts, power networking, etc? Do all of these acts make your christian beliefs wrong, tare down your faith and hope for a better life, or are they better left unsaid. They exist in truth, yet they may also not be useful in relation to your faith. Is this a good example of what Boyd K. Packer offered?
dfausti66 10 months ago
@dfausti66 The difference is that Christians actually ADMIT the problems in their past. Mormon Leaders, instead, instruct their people to IGNORE their own history. If Joseph Smith was a prophet, his history warrants study, but your leaders say not to talk about it!
It makes me sick that you talk about LDS polygamy and compare it to Abraham. Did Abraham marry women who were ALREADY married? Did he marry a mother AND a daughter? Did Abraham deny his polygamy in public like Smith? No!
Nepthu 10 months ago
@Nepthu I am clearly not ignoring the past with you and I have no idea what your talking about on that one!
I think I am beginning to understand the basis of your frustration here:
1. There are three different church's that call themselves Mormon: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, and the Restored Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Incidentally, the first two recognize Joseph Smith as a prophet.
dfausti66 10 months ago
@dfausti66 My frustrations is when Mormons such as yourself don't acknowledge that their history is messy. All you've done is deflect it by saying, "Other churches have problems too." We're talking about this particular Church. Joseph Smith's polygamy is NOT the same as OT polygamy. Be honest and accept that your church makes mistakes. Don't try to cover it up or change the subject.
Nepthu 10 months ago
@Nepthu Ya know,as you read the Bible,there are also a lot of "Messy" things that happened,I mean the history of what happened to Jesus was "messy".I am GREATFUL for Jesus,but look for the GOOD this Church does today,are we NOT "Ye shall know them by their fruits.."?Think about it,I invite you to actually read the Book of Mormon,ask God if this be true,ask if it's NOT true,read Galatians chapter five,trust in the fruits of the spirit my friend...With LOVE,big hug your way friend ;o)
broncofan57 10 months ago
@broncofan57 I appreciate your kindness. I have read the BOM, and I have LDS friends whom I love, but this stuff doesn't add up.
Jesus said about prophets (not a church) "By their fruits, ye shall know them." But LDS Church apologists try to hide half the fruit.
Nepthu 10 months ago
@Nepthu Its the individuals within the Church,the good things that are brought forth by faithful members applying the teachings of Jesus Christ.So who cares if there are Church apologists?The Gospel remains the same and true regardless of what man does because we are NOT perfect.Look at the BIG picture,it is NOT about you,it is about the will of God and trusting Him,be obedient,He wont; lead you astray,Satan has gotten a hold of you and confused you,this is how he works,very skillful and crafty.
broncofan57 9 months ago
@broncofan57 It's not the apologists who are the problem--it's when they hide the "bad fruit" under the guise of "not everything that's true is useful."
Now I'm expected to believe in a Church that has clearly misrepresented things. Look above and you see someone comparing LDS polygamy to Abraham's polygamy. Did Abraham marry women who were ALREADY married? Did he marry a mother AND a daughter? Did Abraham deny his polygamy in public like Smith? No!
Trust in God's word, not Joseph's.
Nepthu 9 months ago
@Nepthu 1st.Do you have afacebook page,I think it would be easier that way.However I do care about your concerns and desire to help you find some answers in an effective manner.Ya see,and this may get long,but I need to say what is on my mind.1st off,I am a convert of almost 15 years,served a Mission in kentucky,returned and 3 years after returning,I was honored to baptize my older sister,I baptized my niece as well in Nov. 08,my cousin joined out in Texas in Jan 08 and currenty attends BYU....
broncofan57 9 months ago
@Nepthu ..So the Church is growing in my family.I have found in my life as a member,many ups and downs,my faith has been tested at times,like yourself,I have questioned some things at times,but I am the type of person who desires answers,I search until I find what I am looking for,it takes time and patience.I have ALWAYS found my answers though,time and time again and my testimony grows stronger EVERY time.I learn more and and my faith increases as yours can as well,I have heard just about...
broncofan57 9 months ago
@Nepthu Everything you can think of from an ant-standpoint and they have ALL been dispelled as simply NOT true accusations.My dear dear friend,to answer your recent comments,may I say you seemed somewhat obsessed over this thing with Joseph smith,you make these statements but then fail do back them up with out any proof,I am NOT a Church history scholar,but I find you are mis-informed and mis-guided.I have heard this all before and much more,and every time,there is NO proof to back these claims
broncofan57 9 months ago
@Nepthu What do you mean by "Apologists"?I am NOT sorry or apologetic for my testimony.You can find "Bad Fruit" in almost anything if your looking for it,there is a ton of bad history of bad events with in the Bible,yet I still read it and learn from it,this is an imperfect world with imperfect beings,ALL but one that has walked the Earth was NOT perfect,that was Christ alone.To be a pessimist and look for bad rather than good is when you get lead astray....
broncofan57 9 months ago
@Nepthu So just show me some organization out there that IS perfect,I don't think the Church claims to be perefect,however,Christs word and Gospel is,when Joseph Smith lost a portion of the manuscripts he was severly chastised by the Lord for being dis-obedient.I too have made mistakes,but thank goodness for repentance that when we mere mortals screw up,no matter what our calling may be,we have a way back,Joseph Smith NEVER claimed to be perfect.We are all going to make mistakes,but....
broncofan57 9 months ago
@Nepthu That is when we dust ourselves off and try again and follow the on that is perfect.Maybe my comparison to Abraham's polygomy was a bad comparison,but does that really matter?Has Christs word been destroyed or become untrue because of what Abraham did?I don't know why they practiced that,its NOT important to my salvation though.It is NOT the gospel of Abraham,its the gospel of Christ.Then you say,trust in God's word not Josephs???!!Well let me see here,when I read the Bible....
broncofan57 9 months ago
@Nepthu I am reading the word of God,the things in the Bible are the words given to prophets that we should hear,some things Abraham may have done in his personal life may not be there because they are NOT relevant.The Book of Mormon also testifies of Jesus Christ and the Bible,fall back on the basics my friend,of Faith and Repentance,stop trying to look for the bad,look for what this Church does today that is good you may be surprised...
broncofan57 9 months ago
@Nepthu Stop judging and trying to find fault,that gets you NO where,but think,am I free of ALL sin to judge like this?Is my life so perfect that I can say these things,NOT what Jesus taught,"Where are thine accusers?","Neither do I condemn you."Don't condemn us.This Church has brought me GREAT peace and happiness,why would you want to take that from me,mye heart aches at the very notion,I know with ALL my heart this is TRUE,I dont go around trying to make excuses for something that may have....
broncofan57 9 months ago
@Nepthu or may not have happened in the past,but try to learn from it,don't dwell so much on some past events,leave it in the past and focus on NOW.How can we help help one another and serve each other,NOT attack and divide.I KNOW what I have felt as I have read the scriptures,I have experienced much and can't deny what I know to be TRUE.This is Christs Gospel,he loves us all.He teaches us to love one another.Go to the Father in prayer when you lack wisdom,just as Joseph Smith did....
broncofan57 9 months ago
@Nepthu I do trust in Gods word,all of what I have received and have yet to receive.The Book of Mormon teaches ALL men that they should do GOOD,is that such a bad thing?Re-read the Book of Mormon,re-read the Bible,go to God in sincere prayer,aks for His guidance and Holy Spirit to testify to you the TRUTH.Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God,He translated the Book of Mormon which TRULY is Another Testament of Jesus Christ,I would be lost without this and the Bible,the give me direction....
broncofan57 9 months ago
@Nepthu They help me make my decisions and show me they way home to God.I hope this helps you,take my challenge and invitation to re-read the Book of Mormon,pray about it.Look at the good things that come from this Church,be kind and stop attacking us,you'll be happier when you put aside those negative things and ideals,that ALL comes from Satan,you have power over him.You have body,he does NOT.Come unto Christ,and He will show the way,I leave this with you in the name of Jesus Christ,Amen.
broncofan57 9 months ago
@broncofan57 I am not attacking you. I'm merely telling the truth. You want people to pray about a book that contains information Mormons themselves don't believe about the nature of God. The BOM says there is one God, and Joseph says there are MANY gods. Only one of these can be true.
Nepthu 9 months ago
@Nepthu I'll give you this,If I was some idiot off the street,and had NOT had the experiences I have had,and NOT found the answers I have found,I just might believe.Well,I am NOT,Yes I invite people to pray about the Book of Mormon to know if it is true or NOT.Do the same for the Bible,James 1:5-6,read it and apply it.Sure there are many Gods,we have ONE eternal Father,but Elohim is pluralized,the greatest reward God offers us is to see HIm as he is and inherit ALL He has and become like him...
broncofan57 9 months ago
@Nepthu So are you telling me now that YOU know the very nature of God and KNOW EVERYTHING about HIM??Well if you do,please clue me in because I am still learning as I go,if you KNOW EVERYTHING about God then you must a God yourself,because we have NOT received and unlocked ALL the mysteries of God.Get over yourself,this aint all about you.We came here to receive a mortal body,learn and grow,Christ showed the way,and has redeemed us ALL,if we will only take upon us His name.You are attacking me.
broncofan57 9 months ago
@Nepthu I find GREAT peace and happiness withing this Church and you want to take that from me so you can justify yourself?That is just mean in itself and selfish of you,I found this one thing,it has brought upon me GREAT blessings and JOY and you want me to abandon that??!!Why?!!That sounds like something Satan woudl say,he wants us to be miserable,well, I would be miserable without this Gospel,with out this Church,why would you do that to anyone,shame on you,your better than that are you NOT?!
broncofan57 9 months ago
@broncofan57 Notice your testimony is all about your feelings here, not about the word and will of God. In other words, your feelings are your god.
RedSun875 9 months ago
@RedSun875 So just WHY are you ripping on my testimony now?Read Galatians 5:22-23,those are the feelings of the Holy spirit,that is what I feel.Of course I testify that Christ is my redeemer,that it is about God's will you half wit!Try to NOT go around ripping on a persons tesimony and rather applaud that atleast they have one,that was just COLD!
broncofan57 9 months ago
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@broncofan57 First off, that is fruit of the spirit as in your attitude towads others not feelings towards doctrine, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, googness, faithfullness, gentleness, self control. Against such there is no law. Gal 5:22-23
Quite unlike your anger and arrorgance in calling me a half-wit right now. But such is the Mormon way when challenged.
RedSun875 9 months ago
@broncofan57 It is NOT my God!Its about feeling the Holy Spirit,it that NOT allowed now??What?I can't have feelings??!!This sounds like something Satan would say,who are you to say who my God is and who I worship,what and what NOT I can't feel??!!!Go away your just a mean person...
broncofan57 9 months ago
@broncofan57 Read those verses it is about attitude towards others, not feelings towards doctrine. And consider your anger and arrogant responses.
RedSun875 9 months ago
@Nepthu The BOM says there is one God, and Joseph says there are MANY gods. Only one of these can be true.
And the Bible also says ther are gods many and Lords many but unto us there is But One....etc does it not?If the Father be God Jesus be God and thge Holy Ghost be god then there ya have 3 Gods do you not?
jferristube 4 months ago
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@Nepthu a book that contains information Mormons themselves don't believe about the nature of God
And what info is that Nepthu?
jferristube 4 months ago
@Nepthu Just try it,read it again,I promise you will feel better!:o)
broncofan57 9 months ago
@broncofan57 I have read the BOM. The scary part to me is that the church teaches things the BOM doesn't. Missionaries ask you to pray if the BOM is true, and then they add things to it left and right.
Nepthu 9 months ago
@Nepthu Your full of it!!Just what do they add too it??I was a Missionary and NEVER added things to it,come up with something better,I think the only one making things up is you,cause I have NEVER experienced the garbage you are coming up with.
broncofan57 9 months ago
@broncofan57 What happened to your Christian love? Please don't get emotional. Do you want an answer or not?
Here's a quick list of things the Church ADDS to the BOM: God is MARRIED, God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are separate beings--this goes directly against BOM passages--secret temple ordinances, eternal marriage, becoming your own god, Kolob.
The list is too long. I literally don't have space to say how much you add to the BOM! Most is kept from investigators.
Nepthu 9 months ago
@Nepthu Christian love?I am NOT the one attacking here.How do you know God does NOT have an eternal companion??Is know that important to your salvation anyway?We don't believe the Trinity,because its FALSE doctrine,who was Jesus praying to?Himself??!!And just what BoM passages are you trying to cite?List them.Secret Temple ordinances?Try SACRED,just like anciently,have you even been through the Temple?.....
broncofan57 9 months ago
@broncofan57 Bronco, there are NO sacred(secret) BOM passages to cite because the BOM does NOT mention having a Temple. However, the BOM DOES claim to be the "most correct book on earth."
Neither the BOM NOR the Bible says God is married. I told you that you add to the BOM, and I have provided numerous examples. First you say, "We don't add." Then you say, "What's wrong with adding that?" You make no sense.
Nepthu 9 months ago
@Nepthu Furthermore,are you telling me that eternal marriage is a BAD thing now??!!Become our own God??No we become LIKE Him and see Him as He is,NOT above Him,but what a GREAT reward that is!!Kept from most investigators??!"Line upon line,precept upon precept,here a lttle there a little.."When I was a missionary,we shared the principal of eternal marriage,families are forever,we did NOT go into deep doctrine because that is too much meat for beginners.NEVER hid it though if it came up...
broncofan57 9 months ago
@Nepthu I NEVER kept things and still don't keep things from investigators,but the most important is the 4 principals,Faith,Repentance,Baptism and the Gift of the Holy Ghost.What is your problem anyway??I challenge you to list at least 5 good things this Church does rather than attacking the Doctrine.Can you do it?I can and could list LOTS and LOTS,I wish I could talk to you on a more personal level,like maybe Face book.
broncofan57 9 months ago
@broncofan57 Please calm down, bro. I do not hate the LDS Church. It does many wonderful things like charity work, family home evening, etc. Those things do not make the church true. Again, my problem with the church is that it HIDES so much of its past, Joseph Smith's life and deep doctrines. No investigator I met EVER knew about the things listed above. I have told you that the Church should be more honest. This simple argument makes you angry? I'm sorry that people have hurt you.
Nepthu 9 months ago
@Nepthu You sure sound like you have a lot against the Church though.They are not hiding the past,but some things are just NOT necessary to know or vital to our salvation,and who really cares anyway?I have looked into the claims you made in the past,and found NO evidence to support them.But who really cares?The fact is,we have this GREAT witness of Christ,we have the Bible,and God has revealed more,what in the world is so bad about that??!!I have questioned EVERYTHING in the Church....
broncofan57 9 months ago
@broncofan57 earlier you said that the church ISN'T hiding anything. Now that I gave specific examples you say, "That's no necessary for my salvation." WHICH IS IT? You cannot have it both ways. You keep changing your stance,bro!
Nepthu 9 months ago
@Nepthu You gave specific examples with no proof,for all I know this could all be made up.The Church is NOT trying to hide anything.But some of the deeper doctrines,well they are good to know,but just NOT needed for our salavation,What is important is Faith,Repentance,Baptism,and the Gift of the Holy Ghost,I am getting sick of hiding behind a keyboard,I wish this was more personal.
broncofan57 9 months ago
@broncofan57 Look into your church history. Do some research. I haven't said anything that warrants a comment like "that could be made up." Can you name two of Joseph Smith's polygamous wives? Ask yourself why not. It's because the Church keeps much of the facts from you, and they tell you "it's not necessary for salvation" to keep you quiet.
Nepthu