@jollyandwaylo I'm just curious, why do you think so? (I don't mean this in any way to offend. I'm genuinely interested in why you believe this because I've never thought of it in this way and would like to know more :) )
@icarus212001 For me, the hardest part of leaving behind all 'spiritual' belief was finally accepting that when I die, I will no longer exist in any form. I live in the Pacific NW and I am surrounded by non-religious people who can't let go of the idea of a soul. They get really uncomfortable when discussing being completely dead. People want to believe that they are so special that the universe could not just let them go. But there is absolutely no evidence or hint of a soul.
@icarus212001 So now when someone says their soul will continue after their bodies die, I picture this vast area of space with giant egos floating around. Really what they mean is their egos will outlast their bodies, thus my statement.
i pray for you that you will one day know the answer. stop this blasphemy and continue on the path of righteousness, you can and will be saved. god knows you mean not what you say for my god our father is a forgiving god. in jesus's name i pray, for he has sacrificed his own life for our sins to save our souls, amen
The soul is created at conception. Can you imagine the souls of all those fertilized human eggs, spontaneously aborted after a few days, all those tiny ,darling, souls down the toilet, down the drain, What a shame.
If humans accept "Strong Athiesm" (the positive assertion that there is no God) then what? Between quantum fluctuations, the Big Bang & Evolution we've pretty much solved how we came to be. The question "why are we here?" can't be dismissed by "why should thier be a why?". The need to know conclusively is unquenchable. It's all very well to refute mythologies but, until that matter is resolved the arguement must evolve past this back and forth between Theism & Atheism.
That's too broad and general of an opinion on his part. I'm christian and have a healthy self-esteem. I don't view it as dismantling... Kill ourselves. Wow. that is a disturbing assessment and opinion he made. yikes!:(
@jappud This refers to our good works can't save us on their own orf course later it does mention working out your salvation in trembling in fear... meaning christ saved us but to continue in works to persevere in being more lik him for the kingdom... not so much about self-esteem
@xonktrof1 Logically speaking, if a soul does exist, there's a possibility that those animals have had souls as well, and like us, it evolved. Not saying I believe it, just throwing it out there.
@jappud I guess it is how we interpret the bible; a good atheist is more likely to "go to heaven" than a religious person who doesn't do good I suggest; isn't this the parable of the Good Samaritan ? That the Bible can mean different things to different people depending on their situation can be good and bad, but there must be an eternal truth perhaps. I don't believe in disassembling ones self esteem if you have one of course but perhaps getting to know and understand ourselves better
@jappud On the God issue, we are all taken from one point in effect and it would appear to be the Big Bang we could say, so in that instance we are all from one source and..it could be argued..if God is the source then we are all from him...if you accept a God obviously
@jappud I don't interpret it like that at all, in everyday life we are normally pleased if someone loves us so much they would do anything for us (and vice versa) so if you give your life for someone and not just in a death type manner it is the ultimate sacrifice in many ways; you love your partner so much it enhances your own self. This would be my take on the practical human aspect.
If meaning and worth that has to be externally imposted upon you, then God is entirely meaningless and worthless? Or who imposes meaning and worth upon God?
Well, no. When you want to kill youreself, goahead. But you shall not do that. Sure, there are people in the Bibel who killed thereself and got to heaven. But you shall not do that. You shall spread Gods word and convert people into a child of God, so that these people also can get to happyland :). Happyland is good! You shall also go there. But if you dont want to, you have to go the other way...
@musicdirectorjim Thanks for being mature about this. It's hard for a lot of people to realize that there are good people out there who don't believe in god, but thre are just as many out there who do. It's just one difference. I'm sure we agree on many other things.
@musicdirectorjim That's certainly true. I could be wrong. I don't know. I just can't believe in something without sufficient evidence. It's totally cool if you believe in an afterlife. I wish there was one, believe me. I would love that. Especially if there's COOKIES!!!! lol Anyway, yes, that would be awesome to meet family members I was too young to know, and those that I miss.
And being an atheist is the most depressing fucking life I'm not kidding I would hate to not look forward to an afterlife. Atheist don't deserve good when they try to prove against God or argue a point you cannot proof the non existence of God it's irrelevant. If I were atheist I would moan and be depressed errrrr day and that's terrible and to all the idiots that don't believe in God what will you do when you die and your face to face with the creator and the look of shame crawls all over your
Some punk ass atheist asks me for proof I'd laugh in there face. This world didn't just poof out of anywhere it was designed say how do humans have eyesight how do humans project sound out of nothing how are humans internal organs all perfectly made to fit inside the human body aye? Every organ has a specific task and they were all designed to work together. If there were no God this world would be outta whack it would be un organized we would be un organized. The human brain is amazing that co
@ELCYBRESTEIN This world didn't poof out of nowhere, it formed as part of the sun's accretion disk which coalesced into the planets of the inner solar system. We have eyesight because the species we are descended from had eyesight. In the broader view the first eyes were merely light-sensitive cells which grew larger and more complex over millions of years and millions of species. We don't project sound out of nothing, we use air that we have in our lungs for other purposes. Vocalization is...
@ELCYBRESTEIN ...a useful adaptation that we first acquired as early synapsids in the Cenozoic era. It allows one to threaten predators and prey, warn one's young of danger and, in some species, communicate more effectively. Organs aren't a human invention, fish have them. Long before our ancestors were human they had organs. People thought like you for thousands of years, but now we have a model that doesn't require magic to work, is testable and predictable, and has lucrative applications.
This world would not be here if there were no God. Sure people ask simple questions like why doesn't God show himself.... But if i were God an some pilf?
@musicdirectorjim I didn't see George Washington or Alexander the Great, but we do have evidence for them. Scientific evidence is strict, but fair in how it judges if something stands as evidence. Yes, you're right that science can't explain everything, and it probably never will. However, for now, I would like to have as many true beliefs as possible and as few false ones as possible. I'm very opened minded. That's why I'm an Atheist today :)
@musicdirectorjim They don't seem to cover anything to me. If all these things were really predicted by the Bible itself, then why don't science and history text books cite it? There's got to be a reason right? I told you I was a Christian, until I started asking questions and kept an open mind to the other side. I definitely have an open mind. That's why I'm an Atheist today :) The "Creator" will never forsake me because I don't believe he exists.
@musicdirectorjim What are the archeological findings. Gravity has been around since humanity began. However, it was science that revealed the actual process of how it works, not the bible. There has always been a vast number of stars. The "circle" of the earth is a metaphor. He didn't actually mean that the earth was circular. Nice try though.
@musicdirectorjim We don't case our calendar on the Bible. There's no evidence that we do. Don't listen to your church mates because they are just as biased as you. You need to talk to a scientist or look in a book or go on the internet.
@musicdirectorjim Lee Strobel? He didn't prove anything. He doesn't know anything about evidence. What did he find that went step-by-step with the Bible? What validity is there in it? Give me specific details.
@musicdirectorjim -->as such occurrences happen autonomously in every region and era. It is our social (or moral) instinct kicking in. In other words, merely human nature. Rebuilding works better when everyone works together. Laws, cultures, religions, governments, ect... are all merely ways developed of reinforcing morals, but morals do not in fact come FROM them. In fact, such institutions quite frequently cause us to act in a counter-productive way. Terrorists, dictators, inquisitions, ect...
@musicdirectorjim --> YOU would be better off not stealing from them and encouraging others to do the same. That is where the enforcement comes in. Our morals are derived from emotional instinct but they are reinforced by natural selection. For instance did you know that when people are hit by a natural disaster like Katrina they are actually MORE likely to be generous and share what little they have? Its not a coincidence and it is not an indoctrination into any particular ideology,--->
@musicdirectorjim --> so when an individual breaks those "moral codes" and society does not fall apart, and they are not caught or punished by the group for their actions then that anti social behavior is reinforced. You could steal from a convenience store if you wanted to and nothing would happen, however if everybody stole from that store then either it would gain the ability to stop such theft or it would go out of business. So if YOU like having convince stores around then -->
@musicdirectorjim However it is important to remember that morality is merely a means of surviving. If the survival of the individual is in question that same desire to survive that made us "moral" in the first place will tell us to toss morals aside for the sake of surviving. Hence the concept of "moral conflict". Cannibalism is empathy trumped by hunger. Killing is empathy trumped by anger. Ect ect... On a small scale such anti social behavior does not effect the entirety of the group, -->
@musicdirectorjim -->function properly then it is more likely to be dysfunctional. A dysfunctional group is essentially like a slow cheetah. If it does not meet the requirements of survival then it does not survive. Its natural selection at play. Morals (social law) are programed into us from birth because that is how our ancestors survived, they passed their genes onto us so now we have those instincts. Empathy is part of human nature and can only be removed by negative reinforcement, like war.
@musicdirectorjim --> We are less likely to escape from danger if we are not prompted by fear to run away.
We are less likely to protect our genes (our children) if we did not feel an instinctual need to protect of them.
We are less likely to win a fight (and survive) if we did not feel the violent burst of abilities that comes with anger.
Our basic emotions evolved because they worked best. Morals are essentially synonymous with social law. If a group does not have a social law to make it -->
@musicdirectorjim Well essentially good and bad are relative terms. Many people have very different and conflicting ideas on what is good and what is bad. Though the desire to survive is a rather easy instinct to explain, for if a creature does not take measures to survive then they typically don't. If a creature does not instinctively desire to take those measures then they are far less likely to take them.
We are less likely to eat things if we don't feel hunger.
@musicdirectorjim Drugs have the same kind of effect. I'm not saying you're on drugs. I'm saying that your mind can play all sorts of tricks on you. I once thought that I heard my mom calling me, but when I called to ask her if she did, she said no. I'm also not saying you have anything wrong with you, besides the fact that you believe in a god that offers no evidence for his existence. However, you are entitled to your own beliefs. I have tons of friends who are religious and many are close.
@musicdirectorjim Science and religion can never be connected. Science is based on reality. Religion is based on belief and obedience without evidence.
@musicdirectorjim Morality has not "evolved out" of human culture because it still serves its basic function. Keeping people in line with the mentality of the group. There is no grand divine punishment of not being moral, only the effectual consequences. Morals are useful to groups of sentient lifeforms in the same sense that traffic laws are useful to drivers. There is no reason that either HAS to be in place, but things tend to work better if they are. That's why both still exist.
@musicdirectorjim Your instincts can lie. You're going to make mistakes occasionally. Migraine or not, I seriously doubt there was any presence there. And besides, personal experience doesn't count as evidence. You can believe in angels all you want. Doesn't mean they're true. Provide actual evidence.
@musicdirectorjim You don't "believe" in science. Science changes everyday, finding truths and errors along the way. Religion has not changed in over 2000 years. "Spiritual" is not a meaningful word. How can you prove we have a "spirit"? We need some kind of physical evidence for a god to either be able to demonstrate how he works through tests that are consistent, or find many other accounts of an actual god in other works aside from the bible.
@musicdirectorjim It's ridiculous because people are real and tangible. God is not. Plain and simple. Why is that so hard for you to understand? There are nights that you haven't been able to sleep because of a little thing called Insomnia. It's been scientifically proven. YOU provide your own strength. God just gives you a placebo effect. The belief that he gives you your strength is comforting and reassuring. Doesn't mean that belief is true.
@musicdirectorjim Through natural means. But that's beside the point really, because even if I had no answer or any idea, what you said would still be wrong. And the reason we disregard the bible and not other books is other books' claims can be verified as accurate. And I sincerely hope we stay away from the disgusting moral code found in some parts of the bible.
@musicdirectorjim You sure it was the presence of God and not just constipation? Prove it was God. Sometimes nature is cruel. Life is unfair. Get used to it. Oh, you tried to live as if you didn't believe in a god? Why does that mean anything? You weren't actually trying to be an Atheist because you are a Christian. You know that. You got scared. You gave up. Enough said.
@musicdirectorjim The logical misstep you took (or at least the main one I noticed) was from "We don't control it" to "so something else does". And also, it's actually quite easy for me at least to explain why I like the things I like and don't like the things I don't like.
Food gathering, food storing, grooming, exercising, playing, cleaning, social issues, language, memory, insight, foresight, problem solving, tool making and using, rules and morals groups apply and almost entirely listen to, with repercussions for disobedience, teaching and learning, and family recognition, self identity, emotions, five senses are all animal instincts we can point at animals we see today and say that they do a good quantity of these functions and we see us humans apply them also
@musicdirectorjim I mean, it's ok if you believe in a god. I find it to be absurd that you do, but I won't stop you. It's just like me hating the Beatles. I can't see how people like them, but that doesn't mean I can tell them not to. I'd rather not because that asserts that not everyone is entitled to their own beliefs.
@musicdirectorjim So not having any evidence and not actually being able to find any proves a god exists? THAT is NOT logical. Yes, you are supposed to be able to accurately describe a god, if one exists. That is a fundamental aspect of real logic. YOUR logic is completely backwards.
I think the real question is do we have purpose... Since the mind and body question is un answerable we are going to have to wait for science to reveal the truth.
"they hope that there's somthing more than this...in a level it's fine to believe that, but in another its not so fine, because every minute you spend hoping for something more is one less minute that you could be spending appreciating what you have". Brilliant!
You can have all the knowledge in the world, it will do nothing for you when your life is done with on this earth. The real deal is, that God, not theist, is right and true in every sense. The truth you have, is fabricated, and made by a group of people who choose to live life however they want, having no rules, therefore everything goes. Having no worries about doing something wrong, cause heck, you can just make the rules up as you go.
I see that some people here are depressed when thinking about death. I am 63 years old and have accepted my death. There is no sorrow or fear of death because it is only a matter of time. Once you accept your death you then cherish and enjoy every second you have left. There is no waste of precious time with pity or drugs or hate or revenge. There is only the desire to simply enjoy the seconds, minutes, hours, days and years left. The focus then is not on death but on life.
@doh1959 Does that mean that our soul has a physical mass? I suppose it could if it's some kind of energy, since mass and energy are the same. But how was the test done? Chemical processes happen in our bodies after we die. Gas could have been produced. Could you give me a link or something so I can take a look at it?
@doh1959 Little fun fact: all the body's muscles relax at the moment of death, including the bowels, which in turn releases all excrement. That's the missing weight. So you're agreeing that souls are pure shit?
@UnderlordZ I'm not arguing for or against anything here, but if the body were weighed on a table or some other large scale and the excrement only moved from inside of the lower intestine to just outside of it, wouldn't the mass of the excrement still be on the scale and thus exerting its weight on the scale? Therefore the lost weight is still unaccounted for.
@UnderlordZ Ah. So no then. I had assumed that was the premise. Sometimes they do these weird kind of things in hospitals: "This guy's dying. Let's move him into that study trial and what's happens to his body as passes."
I had thought that was where doh1959 was coming from. My bad.
@doh1959 Bullshit. No one has ever "weighed" a soul. Dr. Duncan McDougall claimed to have done it in 1907, but the research was invalid (both method and results). No attempts to repeat the results have been successful in the intervening 103 years. If you want to waste a bunch of your time, I suggest you go try it.
i respect your point of view, but i disagree. its like love, some people say it doesn't exist but when your in love you can feel it. you cant explain it. not every thing has a logical explanation. for example by the laws of physics a helicopter is not suppose to be able to fly, but it dose. you just have to try and be open minded.
@ericdh159 Love, like happiness and anger, is an emotion. Nothing supernatural at work. Also, how is a helicopter not supposed to be able to fly? Reminds me of the old rumor that bumblebees aren't supposed to be able to fly; which is, of course, a complete fabrication.
@dagspoket SOME PEOPLE SAY THAT LOVE DOESN'T EXIST (IT ISN'T AN EMOTION BTW BECAUSE EMOTIONS CHANGE IF U TRULY LOVE SOME 1 U WILL ALWAYS LOVE THEM NO MATTER WHAT). AND AS FOR THE HELICOPTER, ALL IT IS, IS UPWARD THRUST SO BY THE LAWS OF PHYSICS IT SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO FLY THE WAY THAT IT DOSE. IM SURE SOME CAN EXPLAIN HOW IT WORKS BUT IT DEFIS THE LAW OF PHYSICS. DO RESEARCH ON IT. ITS ACTUALLY VERY INTERESTING. LET ME KNOW WHAT U FIND OUT.
@ericdh159 I don't need to do research on it, I already know how it works in basic terms. Helicopters do not defy the laws of physics. Because the upward force generated be the air the blades push downward "cancel out" the effects of gravity, the helicpoter can hover and even fly. No defiance of the natural laws. Please stop making bold claims and telling * me * to look it up.
@ericdh159 Oh, and regarding love; it IS an emotion, and I don't see how just because emotions change and love doesn't (even though one's love for someone * can * change) means it's not an emotion. You obviously have no idea about any of these two things.
@ericdh159 And bees can't fly either, right? These are just old wives tales with no basis in reality. Love does have a logical explanation, both from a social and physiological evolutionary standpoint. We are even beginning to understand the chemical mechanisms by which it works. It doesn't make it less real that we can understand it.
I think all good christians have an OBLIGATION to see to it that there are as many abortions as possible... so that the little fetus souls can zoom right up to heaven and never get a chance to sin!
@Diosibundo That would have been an awesome idea if it wasn't for the inherited sin that the fetuses already possesses, so in some way you have to make sure it's converted to christianity first after all :(
How do you explain out of body experiences where people have seen and heard things that would otherwise be impossible without actually being in a place they physically were not? I have had such an experience. The goverment has gone to great lengths as well as the Russians to use psychic experience as a weapon and or for targeting. In fact the bunker bomb dropped in the first Iraq war used a remote viewer to use one of the two weapons we had in our arsenal. FYI the next day Sadam surrendered.
i myself will enjoy death. i dont find sadness in it. its a part of life y not enjoy it. ppl want to enjoy being alive and living y not enjoy dieing also? if there wasnt death there wouldnt be life.
Because dying sucks. It's usually a slow and drawn out process as your body slowly shuts down. Life is good, and you won't complain in death. It's the dying part that sucks.
All living things have an instinctual drive to survive and avoid dying. We humans have this same drive, this built in fear of death that drives us to keep living.
What seems to separate us from other creatures is that we perceive that we live with a level of awareness that most animals don't seem to. We are able to construct within our minds a sense of "self", of us as distinct from all other living things. As such we can perceive death as a loss of self. This creates a seemingly new problem.
@GermanChocolateCake That problem being that we can observe that if we die we lose this sense of self. We as we define ourselves on an individual level, cease to live, and so far as we can observe, cease to be ourselves. We can see the clear dividing line between living and dying in a way that moves beyond mere instinct.
However, the base instinct to live is still there. That basic drive is not gone. So we find ourselves wrestling with two strong forces:
@GermanChocolateCake Our perception of death and the loss of self, and the strong instinctual need to avoid it. Furthermore we can observe that death is final, and that the loss of self does not seem to be mitigated in any way. Once it is done, it is done.
This for us is terrifying. We do not want to die on an instinctual level, and we are now also able to identify death as a permanent loss of us as an unique individual. Our minds rail against this idea. We seek to find a loophole of some kind.
@GermanChocolateCake One that will allow us to keep living and salve both the instinctual fear and specific (self) fear of the results of death. We seek to find a method of reasoning that allows us to bypass death, to continue existing in spite of its objective reality and obvious inevitability.
Thus, we create myths and religions that provide an explanation for how we might be a special exemption to the mechanisms of death. We create a method of thought that gives us perpetuity.
@GermanChocolateCake In doing so, we find a way to salve our fear of death, a kind of emotional and intellectual band aid. But the objective truth is that all we have done is found a way to calm our instincts and rational fears about dying. We've, put bluntly, fooled ourselves for the sake of our minds.
Take any animal and provide a way that it can live beyond the normal expectations of its lifespan, and it will continue to live for as long as it is able. We are no different, and would do so too
@GermanChocolateCake were we able too. Religion attempts to create a means to provide that extension of normal life expectancy, so it is no wonder that we so easily latch on to it. It is filling an instinctual drive to continue living as long as possible. Unfortunately, in objective reality, it is still only an immaterial mental construct that exerts no actual change in the reality of life and death. It does not actually extend our lives. It simply allows us to think it does, and calms our fear.
@laflugantabastardo I've considered that, but all I have at my disposal is powerpoint. Does that upload to youtube? I've never bothered to find out. Mainly I just debate the religiously inclined in the comments =)
It is not in the Atheist best intrest to look for phonie cristians that are out there just to malnipulate the truth of truth.Because then the Athiest would have to work harder becoming being an Atheist. Just like the scientist now point to a Creator of all life. They had extra work to get done because of misleading theorys.
I think what bothers me most about religion is how they are all waiting, wishing, hoping, praying, and promising for paradise after we die. Their belief centers around death. Its almost sad to a point. I say we celebrate life while we absolutely KNOW we have it, and try to make heaven on earth. This may be the only heaven we will ever get. And if it is, im perfectly fine with that. Make the most of it while you can. While religious people worship death, i will be living my life
And man went on to say: "Let us make robot in our image, according to our likeness...And man proceeded to create the robot in his image, in Man's image he created it." Doesn't that sound very similar to what happened in Genesis 1:26,27? Most of you blame the bible for the violence you see by the people who say they are "christian" but search for the true religion, one that makes sense, are non-violent, dont go to wars, and have explanations for things such as "why does God allow suffering?"
The uncertainty is amazing! Look it doesn't really matter what happens to you when you die. You either go to happy land orrr... you go into a deep, deep sleep and never wake up. You'll never know you've died, you'll never know you've missed out on anything...
@TheRealCates It is that very uncertainty, that very fear of the unknown, and the fear of non-existence that gives religion such a foothold on peoples lives. It provides a placebo to salve the fear.
@TheRealCates I jsut assume hardcore atheism is right, you die, your gone, no longer existing. But the good part is if I'm wrong, I get to go wow! instead of ohhh...the ol' afterlife...
@TheRealCates nah man think about it.. Death will pass like going to sleep.. Perhaps u'll be sick or something but at least if your sick u know death is coming and they have meds to ease ur passing..
But I think sometimes life would get so old if u lived forever... I kind of hope for something more too.. At least a reunion with my friends far in the future.. Or at least a temporary moment to remember :)
i wonder how these two men see value in human life if this is what they truly believe. If we're just "evolutionary machines", what gives humans value over rocks, insects, or machines? Why would raping, attacking, even killing a person be wrong if we're nothing more than machines? This wordlview is empty and gives no reason for living. I couldn't live like that and luckily i don't have to because i KNOW (not hope) that I was made with a soul by an all mighty God who loves me and loves you too.
The value in life is exactly what we give it, no more ,no less.
Just how does a supposedly ruling ghostly father figure give us meaning?
If there is an afterlife, surely that must diminish the value of this "earthly" life?
What you really mean is that you have trouble believing yourself to be a mere " meat computer", and would rather believe your an angel in waiting, only here to "earn your wings".
Just HOW do you KNOW that you indeed do have a soul? In the absence of evidence.
"The value in life is exactly what we give it, no more, no less" When you say this your assuming that everyone values life. Suppose im a killer and give absolutely no value to the life of my victim. Does that mean that since I give this person no value, that they are in fact valueless? With that belief system, the value of a life becomes merely relative and a matter of opinion. YOU still have no real basis for why life has any value and left my initial question unanswered.
"Suppose im a killer and give absolutely no value to the life of my victim. Does that mean that since I give this person no value, that they are in fact valueless?"
To you they're meaningless, to the people who know and love them obviously not, this is what I was saying, WE give the value to things.
Why do YOU value your family more than a starving African child?
How much value does your god put on this same African child, quite obviously NOT the same value he places on you.
God gives us value because of three simple but important things: 1) he made us in his image, and 2) he sacrificed his son on a cross to save us, and 3) He loves us. This is why we have value: because the creator of the universe values us.
1, sorry, your relying on an anonymous old book of myth, have you any evidence this is the case?
Do you suppose god has a penis, nipples, hair, an appendix, (why would he need any)?
2, sorry, same anon old book. But even so, why is this a sacrifice, surely he had total autonomy, and could chose to do as he pleased, is he not supposedly omnipotent?
3, How do you KNOW "he loves us", a feeling, or do we go back to the book? Why does that give value?
Illusionary prostheses has nothing to do with the super natural.
Stimulators in a prosthetic limb trigger brain sensations in the amputee's brain so that he may feel or have the illusion that the prosthetic limb is part of his body.
So there is feeling involved and a realistic/ material limb.
The S-Natural is unseen and unheard and you can not feel it (unless it is permissible)
It'd be too conveniant to just agree on that nothing is felt, nor heard;
but the experience is more debatable than that: people can manage to evoke sensations within themselves, kinda like how a hypochondriac would make him/her self feel sick, or a nightmare might trigger one's senses. In all these cases, there is a feedback, even though the source is not genuine.
... though I originall just meant to say that "the supernatural" has always served as a placeholder for scientific explanations.
Yes true but we were talking (atleast I am) about the super natural like God, our Lady, Angels , apparitions, miracles not what the body experiences with sensations illusion's and mind tricks. I call that phenomena where scientists still cannot fully understand it or its a new discovery and need further studies.
Never have I ever heard anyone proffer a reasonable explanation of a soul.
It seems to me as though the people have not even really thought about it in any depth.
As Dillahunty says, it's as if they just hope about it. But on a very superficial level.
We see because our eyes perceive some freq's of EM radiation, our retinas send the signals to the brain, that then interprets it, and we experience this as sight.
How does one see, when one is dead? After the eyes and brain are no longer working.
But then you also have to agree that faith is not a rational position and thus cannot be expected to be accepted or taken into account by others, right?
People two thousand years ago could not comprehend rain. Those people believed sacrifice would make thier God happy. An example of sacrifice is the story of Abel sacrificing his flock to God to make him happy. We now know that rain is caused by evaporation, condensation, and precipitation.
The belief in a soul is proof that humans have huge egos.
jollyandwaylo 3 months ago 4
@jollyandwaylo I'm just curious, why do you think so? (I don't mean this in any way to offend. I'm genuinely interested in why you believe this because I've never thought of it in this way and would like to know more :) )
icarus212001 3 months ago
@icarus212001 For me, the hardest part of leaving behind all 'spiritual' belief was finally accepting that when I die, I will no longer exist in any form. I live in the Pacific NW and I am surrounded by non-religious people who can't let go of the idea of a soul. They get really uncomfortable when discussing being completely dead. People want to believe that they are so special that the universe could not just let them go. But there is absolutely no evidence or hint of a soul.
jollyandwaylo 3 months ago
@icarus212001 So now when someone says their soul will continue after their bodies die, I picture this vast area of space with giant egos floating around. Really what they mean is their egos will outlast their bodies, thus my statement.
jollyandwaylo 3 months ago
i pray for you that you will one day know the answer. stop this blasphemy and continue on the path of righteousness, you can and will be saved. god knows you mean not what you say for my god our father is a forgiving god. in jesus's name i pray, for he has sacrificed his own life for our sins to save our souls, amen
TheStarwars1995 4 months ago
@TheStarwars1995
I laugh at all the nonsense you have been brainwashed with.
You pray for us, we'll think for you.
Uberlaser 3 months ago
@Uberlaser LMAO. It sounds like @TheStarwars1995 is reading off of an teleprompter. Well I suppose that's close to the truth really.
LavLTC 2 months ago
@TheStarwars1995 I think you are going to hell by saying what you just said.
goaliedude32 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"The soul is a lazy explanation of the universe's most amazing creation."
"The soul is not magic but a magnificent deillusion, caused by indoctrination caused by fear of loneliness." -Albert Einstein
andenandenia 4 months ago
The soul is created at conception. Can you imagine the souls of all those fertilized human eggs, spontaneously aborted after a few days, all those tiny ,darling, souls down the toilet, down the drain, What a shame.
ndzoko 5 months ago
If humans accept "Strong Athiesm" (the positive assertion that there is no God) then what? Between quantum fluctuations, the Big Bang & Evolution we've pretty much solved how we came to be. The question "why are we here?" can't be dismissed by "why should thier be a why?". The need to know conclusively is unquenchable. It's all very well to refute mythologies but, until that matter is resolved the arguement must evolve past this back and forth between Theism & Atheism.
MrLittletomdj 6 months ago
We're how the universe can experience itself. Whatever we do, we're AMAZING for that reason, alone.
GoblinXXX 6 months ago
dismantle self esteem ? killourselves?
That's too broad and general of an opinion on his part. I'm christian and have a healthy self-esteem. I don't view it as dismantling... Kill ourselves. Wow. that is a disturbing assessment and opinion he made. yikes!:(
casablanca4381 6 months ago
@jappud This refers to our good works can't save us on their own orf course later it does mention working out your salvation in trembling in fear... meaning christ saved us but to continue in works to persevere in being more lik him for the kingdom... not so much about self-esteem
casablanca4381 6 months ago
Oh my goodness! I feel "Physically Ill at the Demonic Power" Matt had when he stated Christians should kill themselves. =)
somewhatd 9 months ago
@somewhatd Are you sure you didn't just eat at JACK IN THE BOX for lunch?
GoblinXXX 6 months ago
God.God,God,only when one can identify the machine,then go ask questions bout God.
MajesticMist 9 months ago
I would love to bring these guys to the Universal Medicine workshops. They would see things in a whole new light.
shimwah 9 months ago
Any Christians that believe in evolution: at what point from evolving from a fish/rodent/monkey whatever, did we developed souls?
xonktrof1 9 months ago 10
@xonktrof1 when we became humans. damn that was an easy question. being a theist is easy!
me25422 2 months ago
@xonktrof1 Logically speaking, if a soul does exist, there's a possibility that those animals have had souls as well, and like us, it evolved. Not saying I believe it, just throwing it out there.
sickness324 2 months ago
It has nothing to with religions , maybe you are a empty shell, we shall see!
ozziestextures 10 months ago
When you die and step outside your narrow plane of existence all will be reveled to you!
ozziestextures 11 months ago
@ozziestextures And this is based on?
splicedenergy 11 months ago
@splicedenergy his 2,000 year old science fiction book that he takes literally
frinensi555 10 months ago
@frinensi555 And of course how does he prove it to be truth, well, the book says that it's true.
petion2010 10 months ago
@ozziestextures you are a supreme wanker!
pubicteeth 10 months ago
@jappud I guess it is how we interpret the bible; a good atheist is more likely to "go to heaven" than a religious person who doesn't do good I suggest; isn't this the parable of the Good Samaritan ? That the Bible can mean different things to different people depending on their situation can be good and bad, but there must be an eternal truth perhaps. I don't believe in disassembling ones self esteem if you have one of course but perhaps getting to know and understand ourselves better
no1hoopsman 11 months ago
@jappud On the God issue, we are all taken from one point in effect and it would appear to be the Big Bang we could say, so in that instance we are all from one source and..it could be argued..if God is the source then we are all from him...if you accept a God obviously
no1hoopsman 11 months ago
@jappud I don't interpret it like that at all, in everyday life we are normally pleased if someone loves us so much they would do anything for us (and vice versa) so if you give your life for someone and not just in a death type manner it is the ultimate sacrifice in many ways; you love your partner so much it enhances your own self. This would be my take on the practical human aspect.
no1hoopsman 11 months ago
I don't know of this Christianity that is made to dismantle a persons self esteem; what one is this he is referring to around 3-50 ?
no1hoopsman 11 months ago
If meaning and worth that has to be externally imposted upon you, then God is entirely meaningless and worthless? Or who imposes meaning and worth upon God?
Nails077 1 year ago
Martin is an incredible biological religious dogma raping machine.
maximusspqr 1 year ago
I believe Descart also tried that argument. I have to ask, how did it work for him?
quietseer85 1 year ago
Death is like what it was like before you were born, and as far as I can tell it was all frat party's with other sperm
ThatKidWithTheVideos 1 year ago
@ThatKidWithTheVideos
The great unknown is much bigger then your imagination.
DeepCore214 11 months ago
Well, no. When you want to kill youreself, goahead. But you shall not do that. Sure, there are people in the Bibel who killed thereself and got to heaven. But you shall not do that. You shall spread Gods word and convert people into a child of God, so that these people also can get to happyland :). Happyland is good! You shall also go there. But if you dont want to, you have to go the other way...
Go to happyland instead ;D
eagleeye2102 1 year ago
@musicdirectorjim Hope you have a good holiday, and keep up your optimism in life. It will truly take you far.
Yay248 1 year ago
@musicdirectorjim Thanks for being mature about this. It's hard for a lot of people to realize that there are good people out there who don't believe in god, but thre are just as many out there who do. It's just one difference. I'm sure we agree on many other things.
Yay248 1 year ago
lol I am watching this while two preachers are having dinner few meters away.
darkilustrisimus 1 year ago
@musicdirectorjim That's certainly true. I could be wrong. I don't know. I just can't believe in something without sufficient evidence. It's totally cool if you believe in an afterlife. I wish there was one, believe me. I would love that. Especially if there's COOKIES!!!! lol Anyway, yes, that would be awesome to meet family members I was too young to know, and those that I miss.
Yay248 1 year ago
And being an atheist is the most depressing fucking life I'm not kidding I would hate to not look forward to an afterlife. Atheist don't deserve good when they try to prove against God or argue a point you cannot proof the non existence of God it's irrelevant. If I were atheist I would moan and be depressed errrrr day and that's terrible and to all the idiots that don't believe in God what will you do when you die and your face to face with the creator and the look of shame crawls all over your
ELCYBRESTEIN 1 year ago
Some punk ass atheist asks me for proof I'd laugh in there face. This world didn't just poof out of anywhere it was designed say how do humans have eyesight how do humans project sound out of nothing how are humans internal organs all perfectly made to fit inside the human body aye? Every organ has a specific task and they were all designed to work together. If there were no God this world would be outta whack it would be un organized we would be un organized. The human brain is amazing that co
ELCYBRESTEIN 1 year ago
@ELCYBRESTEIN This world didn't poof out of nowhere, it formed as part of the sun's accretion disk which coalesced into the planets of the inner solar system. We have eyesight because the species we are descended from had eyesight. In the broader view the first eyes were merely light-sensitive cells which grew larger and more complex over millions of years and millions of species. We don't project sound out of nothing, we use air that we have in our lungs for other purposes. Vocalization is...
bcgonynor 1 year ago
@ELCYBRESTEIN ...a useful adaptation that we first acquired as early synapsids in the Cenozoic era. It allows one to threaten predators and prey, warn one's young of danger and, in some species, communicate more effectively. Organs aren't a human invention, fish have them. Long before our ancestors were human they had organs. People thought like you for thousands of years, but now we have a model that doesn't require magic to work, is testable and predictable, and has lucrative applications.
bcgonynor 1 year ago
This world would not be here if there were no God. Sure people ask simple questions like why doesn't God show himself.... But if i were God an some pilf?
ELCYBRESTEIN 1 year ago
IF YOU SIT IN THINK ABOUT IT EVEN AN IDIOT CAN FIGURE GOD DOES INDEED EXIST.
ELCYBRESTEIN 1 year ago
@musicdirectorjim I didn't see George Washington or Alexander the Great, but we do have evidence for them. Scientific evidence is strict, but fair in how it judges if something stands as evidence. Yes, you're right that science can't explain everything, and it probably never will. However, for now, I would like to have as many true beliefs as possible and as few false ones as possible. I'm very opened minded. That's why I'm an Atheist today :)
Yay248 1 year ago
@musicdirectorjim They don't seem to cover anything to me. If all these things were really predicted by the Bible itself, then why don't science and history text books cite it? There's got to be a reason right? I told you I was a Christian, until I started asking questions and kept an open mind to the other side. I definitely have an open mind. That's why I'm an Atheist today :) The "Creator" will never forsake me because I don't believe he exists.
Yay248 1 year ago
@musicdirectorjim What are the archeological findings. Gravity has been around since humanity began. However, it was science that revealed the actual process of how it works, not the bible. There has always been a vast number of stars. The "circle" of the earth is a metaphor. He didn't actually mean that the earth was circular. Nice try though.
Yay248 1 year ago
@musicdirectorjim We don't case our calendar on the Bible. There's no evidence that we do. Don't listen to your church mates because they are just as biased as you. You need to talk to a scientist or look in a book or go on the internet.
Yay248 1 year ago
@musicdirectorjim Lee Strobel? He didn't prove anything. He doesn't know anything about evidence. What did he find that went step-by-step with the Bible? What validity is there in it? Give me specific details.
Yay248 1 year ago
@musicdirectorjim -->as such occurrences happen autonomously in every region and era. It is our social (or moral) instinct kicking in. In other words, merely human nature. Rebuilding works better when everyone works together. Laws, cultures, religions, governments, ect... are all merely ways developed of reinforcing morals, but morals do not in fact come FROM them. In fact, such institutions quite frequently cause us to act in a counter-productive way. Terrorists, dictators, inquisitions, ect...
CommanderC4 1 year ago
@musicdirectorjim --> YOU would be better off not stealing from them and encouraging others to do the same. That is where the enforcement comes in. Our morals are derived from emotional instinct but they are reinforced by natural selection. For instance did you know that when people are hit by a natural disaster like Katrina they are actually MORE likely to be generous and share what little they have? Its not a coincidence and it is not an indoctrination into any particular ideology,--->
CommanderC4 1 year ago
@musicdirectorjim --> so when an individual breaks those "moral codes" and society does not fall apart, and they are not caught or punished by the group for their actions then that anti social behavior is reinforced. You could steal from a convenience store if you wanted to and nothing would happen, however if everybody stole from that store then either it would gain the ability to stop such theft or it would go out of business. So if YOU like having convince stores around then -->
CommanderC4 1 year ago
@musicdirectorjim However it is important to remember that morality is merely a means of surviving. If the survival of the individual is in question that same desire to survive that made us "moral" in the first place will tell us to toss morals aside for the sake of surviving. Hence the concept of "moral conflict". Cannibalism is empathy trumped by hunger. Killing is empathy trumped by anger. Ect ect... On a small scale such anti social behavior does not effect the entirety of the group, -->
CommanderC4 1 year ago
@musicdirectorjim -->function properly then it is more likely to be dysfunctional. A dysfunctional group is essentially like a slow cheetah. If it does not meet the requirements of survival then it does not survive. Its natural selection at play. Morals (social law) are programed into us from birth because that is how our ancestors survived, they passed their genes onto us so now we have those instincts. Empathy is part of human nature and can only be removed by negative reinforcement, like war.
CommanderC4 1 year ago
@musicdirectorjim --> We are less likely to escape from danger if we are not prompted by fear to run away.
We are less likely to protect our genes (our children) if we did not feel an instinctual need to protect of them.
We are less likely to win a fight (and survive) if we did not feel the violent burst of abilities that comes with anger.
Our basic emotions evolved because they worked best. Morals are essentially synonymous with social law. If a group does not have a social law to make it -->
CommanderC4 1 year ago
@musicdirectorjim Well essentially good and bad are relative terms. Many people have very different and conflicting ideas on what is good and what is bad. Though the desire to survive is a rather easy instinct to explain, for if a creature does not take measures to survive then they typically don't. If a creature does not instinctively desire to take those measures then they are far less likely to take them.
We are less likely to eat things if we don't feel hunger.
-->
CommanderC4 1 year ago
@musicdirectorjim Drugs have the same kind of effect. I'm not saying you're on drugs. I'm saying that your mind can play all sorts of tricks on you. I once thought that I heard my mom calling me, but when I called to ask her if she did, she said no. I'm also not saying you have anything wrong with you, besides the fact that you believe in a god that offers no evidence for his existence. However, you are entitled to your own beliefs. I have tons of friends who are religious and many are close.
Yay248 1 year ago
@musicdirectorjim Science and religion can never be connected. Science is based on reality. Religion is based on belief and obedience without evidence.
Yay248 1 year ago
@musicdirectorjim Morality has not "evolved out" of human culture because it still serves its basic function. Keeping people in line with the mentality of the group. There is no grand divine punishment of not being moral, only the effectual consequences. Morals are useful to groups of sentient lifeforms in the same sense that traffic laws are useful to drivers. There is no reason that either HAS to be in place, but things tend to work better if they are. That's why both still exist.
CommanderC4 1 year ago
@musicdirectorjim Your instincts can lie. You're going to make mistakes occasionally. Migraine or not, I seriously doubt there was any presence there. And besides, personal experience doesn't count as evidence. You can believe in angels all you want. Doesn't mean they're true. Provide actual evidence.
Yay248 1 year ago
@musicdirectorjim You don't "believe" in science. Science changes everyday, finding truths and errors along the way. Religion has not changed in over 2000 years. "Spiritual" is not a meaningful word. How can you prove we have a "spirit"? We need some kind of physical evidence for a god to either be able to demonstrate how he works through tests that are consistent, or find many other accounts of an actual god in other works aside from the bible.
Yay248 1 year ago
@musicdirectorjim If it was the Christian god? No I wouldn't worship him. I probably wouldn't worship any god in the way I think you mean
henhicktaimon 1 year ago
@musicdirectorjim It's ridiculous because people are real and tangible. God is not. Plain and simple. Why is that so hard for you to understand? There are nights that you haven't been able to sleep because of a little thing called Insomnia. It's been scientifically proven. YOU provide your own strength. God just gives you a placebo effect. The belief that he gives you your strength is comforting and reassuring. Doesn't mean that belief is true.
Yay248 1 year ago
@musicdirectorjim Through natural means. But that's beside the point really, because even if I had no answer or any idea, what you said would still be wrong. And the reason we disregard the bible and not other books is other books' claims can be verified as accurate. And I sincerely hope we stay away from the disgusting moral code found in some parts of the bible.
henhicktaimon 1 year ago
@musicdirectorjim You sure it was the presence of God and not just constipation? Prove it was God. Sometimes nature is cruel. Life is unfair. Get used to it. Oh, you tried to live as if you didn't believe in a god? Why does that mean anything? You weren't actually trying to be an Atheist because you are a Christian. You know that. You got scared. You gave up. Enough said.
Yay248 1 year ago
@musicdirectorjim The logical misstep you took (or at least the main one I noticed) was from "We don't control it" to "so something else does". And also, it's actually quite easy for me at least to explain why I like the things I like and don't like the things I don't like.
henhicktaimon 1 year ago
Food gathering, food storing, grooming, exercising, playing, cleaning, social issues, language, memory, insight, foresight, problem solving, tool making and using, rules and morals groups apply and almost entirely listen to, with repercussions for disobedience, teaching and learning, and family recognition, self identity, emotions, five senses are all animal instincts we can point at animals we see today and say that they do a good quantity of these functions and we see us humans apply them also
IAmTheCthulhu 1 year ago
@musicdirectorjim I mean, it's ok if you believe in a god. I find it to be absurd that you do, but I won't stop you. It's just like me hating the Beatles. I can't see how people like them, but that doesn't mean I can tell them not to. I'd rather not because that asserts that not everyone is entitled to their own beliefs.
Yay248 1 year ago
@musicdirectorjim So not having any evidence and not actually being able to find any proves a god exists? THAT is NOT logical. Yes, you are supposed to be able to accurately describe a god, if one exists. That is a fundamental aspect of real logic. YOUR logic is completely backwards.
Yay248 1 year ago
suicide is mans way of telling God, 'You can't fire me... I quit'
samoht1288 1 year ago 37
@samoht1288
haha
Wordlaw12 8 months ago
I think the real question is do we have purpose... Since the mind and body question is un answerable we are going to have to wait for science to reveal the truth.
railroadtrash09 1 year ago
Martin is the only host that consistently interrupts Matt!
evoman1776 1 year ago
"they hope that there's somthing more than this...in a level it's fine to believe that, but in another its not so fine, because every minute you spend hoping for something more is one less minute that you could be spending appreciating what you have". Brilliant!
bekacynthia 1 year ago
Anyone else notice Matt looks like the Goliath Pilot in SC2 :D :D :D
Tobarxp 1 year ago
You can have all the knowledge in the world, it will do nothing for you when your life is done with on this earth. The real deal is, that God, not theist, is right and true in every sense. The truth you have, is fabricated, and made by a group of people who choose to live life however they want, having no rules, therefore everything goes. Having no worries about doing something wrong, cause heck, you can just make the rules up as you go.
Jesusthemessiahd4ms 1 year ago
I see that some people here are depressed when thinking about death. I am 63 years old and have accepted my death. There is no sorrow or fear of death because it is only a matter of time. Once you accept your death you then cherish and enjoy every second you have left. There is no waste of precious time with pity or drugs or hate or revenge. There is only the desire to simply enjoy the seconds, minutes, hours, days and years left. The focus then is not on death but on life.
chairde 1 year ago 33
@chairde wow thats profoundly awesome...
SHIBBYiPANDA 1 year ago
Comment removed
ThaTrillMagician 1 year ago
The value of human life.
Well the component elements are worth less then a dollar. But the skin is worth at least 3.50.
But that last price might go up if humans ever become rare... so lets get to overhunting!
Shavarnarak 1 year ago
I find it interesting that these guys block those from posting that have made valid arguments on their video's.
drjackflash 1 year ago
the human soul has been weighed during death it was carried out in extensive tests in germany
doh1959 1 year ago
@doh1959 Does that mean that our soul has a physical mass? I suppose it could if it's some kind of energy, since mass and energy are the same. But how was the test done? Chemical processes happen in our bodies after we die. Gas could have been produced. Could you give me a link or something so I can take a look at it?
paulmag91 1 year ago
@doh1959 Little fun fact: all the body's muscles relax at the moment of death, including the bowels, which in turn releases all excrement. That's the missing weight. So you're agreeing that souls are pure shit?
UnderlordZ 1 year ago
@UnderlordZ I'm not arguing for or against anything here, but if the body were weighed on a table or some other large scale and the excrement only moved from inside of the lower intestine to just outside of it, wouldn't the mass of the excrement still be on the scale and thus exerting its weight on the scale? Therefore the lost weight is still unaccounted for.
Not that a soul should have mass anyway.
Vampiro413 1 year ago
@Vampiro413 But that would only be if you were on the scale when your muscles release.
UnderlordZ 1 year ago
@UnderlordZ Oh, so in this example, the body was weighed after it was cleaned up and stuff? It wasn't weighed *as* it expired?
Vampiro413 1 year ago
@Vampiro413 I don't know of too many (any at all) people who die while they're getting weighed.
UnderlordZ 1 year ago
@UnderlordZ Ah. So no then. I had assumed that was the premise. Sometimes they do these weird kind of things in hospitals: "This guy's dying. Let's move him into that study trial and what's happens to his body as passes."
I had thought that was where doh1959 was coming from. My bad.
Vampiro413 1 year ago
@doh1959 Bullshit. No one has ever "weighed" a soul. Dr. Duncan McDougall claimed to have done it in 1907, but the research was invalid (both method and results). No attempts to repeat the results have been successful in the intervening 103 years. If you want to waste a bunch of your time, I suggest you go try it.
tml4873 1 year ago
i respect your point of view, but i disagree. its like love, some people say it doesn't exist but when your in love you can feel it. you cant explain it. not every thing has a logical explanation. for example by the laws of physics a helicopter is not suppose to be able to fly, but it dose. you just have to try and be open minded.
ericdh159 1 year ago
@ericdh159 Love, like happiness and anger, is an emotion. Nothing supernatural at work. Also, how is a helicopter not supposed to be able to fly? Reminds me of the old rumor that bumblebees aren't supposed to be able to fly; which is, of course, a complete fabrication.
dagspoket 1 year ago
@dagspoket SOME PEOPLE SAY THAT LOVE DOESN'T EXIST (IT ISN'T AN EMOTION BTW BECAUSE EMOTIONS CHANGE IF U TRULY LOVE SOME 1 U WILL ALWAYS LOVE THEM NO MATTER WHAT). AND AS FOR THE HELICOPTER, ALL IT IS, IS UPWARD THRUST SO BY THE LAWS OF PHYSICS IT SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO FLY THE WAY THAT IT DOSE. IM SURE SOME CAN EXPLAIN HOW IT WORKS BUT IT DEFIS THE LAW OF PHYSICS. DO RESEARCH ON IT. ITS ACTUALLY VERY INTERESTING. LET ME KNOW WHAT U FIND OUT.
ericdh159 1 year ago
@ericdh159 I don't need to do research on it, I already know how it works in basic terms. Helicopters do not defy the laws of physics. Because the upward force generated be the air the blades push downward "cancel out" the effects of gravity, the helicpoter can hover and even fly. No defiance of the natural laws. Please stop making bold claims and telling * me * to look it up.
dagspoket 1 year ago
@ericdh159 Oh, and regarding love; it IS an emotion, and I don't see how just because emotions change and love doesn't (even though one's love for someone * can * change) means it's not an emotion. You obviously have no idea about any of these two things.
Also: lolumad?
dagspoket 1 year ago
@dagspoket OK. IF U SAY SO SIR.
ericdh159 1 year ago
@ericdh159 And bees can't fly either, right? These are just old wives tales with no basis in reality. Love does have a logical explanation, both from a social and physiological evolutionary standpoint. We are even beginning to understand the chemical mechanisms by which it works. It doesn't make it less real that we can understand it.
tml4873 1 year ago
I think all good christians have an OBLIGATION to see to it that there are as many abortions as possible... so that the little fetus souls can zoom right up to heaven and never get a chance to sin!
Diosibundo 1 year ago
@Diosibundo That would have been an awesome idea if it wasn't for the inherited sin that the fetuses already possesses, so in some way you have to make sure it's converted to christianity first after all :(
paulmag91 1 year ago
@paulmag91
Awww.....
I knew God wouldnt fall for a cheap trick like that!
Sigh.
Diosibundo 1 year ago
How do you explain out of body experiences where people have seen and heard things that would otherwise be impossible without actually being in a place they physically were not? I have had such an experience. The goverment has gone to great lengths as well as the Russians to use psychic experience as a weapon and or for targeting. In fact the bunker bomb dropped in the first Iraq war used a remote viewer to use one of the two weapons we had in our arsenal. FYI the next day Sadam surrendered.
FuPukeater 1 year ago
i myself will enjoy death. i dont find sadness in it. its a part of life y not enjoy it. ppl want to enjoy being alive and living y not enjoy dieing also? if there wasnt death there wouldnt be life.
ellimist6 1 year ago
@ellimist6
Because dying sucks. It's usually a slow and drawn out process as your body slowly shuts down. Life is good, and you won't complain in death. It's the dying part that sucks.
laflugantabastardo 1 year ago
death is not all that sad... at least you got to live... many don't get to experience it.
adikid89 1 year ago
I'm an atheist, and I believe in souls, in a sense. It's a Cartesian self-evident sort of thing to me.
TharosTheDragon 1 year ago
Achievement Unlocked "We Have Achievements!" 15G
:D
TheMasterKingz 1 year ago
yous are weirdos just chill the fuck out and make the most of it!!
kenjimgee 1 year ago
All living things have an instinctual drive to survive and avoid dying. We humans have this same drive, this built in fear of death that drives us to keep living.
What seems to separate us from other creatures is that we perceive that we live with a level of awareness that most animals don't seem to. We are able to construct within our minds a sense of "self", of us as distinct from all other living things. As such we can perceive death as a loss of self. This creates a seemingly new problem.
GermanChocolateCake 1 year ago
@GermanChocolateCake That problem being that we can observe that if we die we lose this sense of self. We as we define ourselves on an individual level, cease to live, and so far as we can observe, cease to be ourselves. We can see the clear dividing line between living and dying in a way that moves beyond mere instinct.
However, the base instinct to live is still there. That basic drive is not gone. So we find ourselves wrestling with two strong forces:
GermanChocolateCake 1 year ago
@GermanChocolateCake Our perception of death and the loss of self, and the strong instinctual need to avoid it. Furthermore we can observe that death is final, and that the loss of self does not seem to be mitigated in any way. Once it is done, it is done.
This for us is terrifying. We do not want to die on an instinctual level, and we are now also able to identify death as a permanent loss of us as an unique individual. Our minds rail against this idea. We seek to find a loophole of some kind.
GermanChocolateCake 1 year ago
@GermanChocolateCake One that will allow us to keep living and salve both the instinctual fear and specific (self) fear of the results of death. We seek to find a method of reasoning that allows us to bypass death, to continue existing in spite of its objective reality and obvious inevitability.
Thus, we create myths and religions that provide an explanation for how we might be a special exemption to the mechanisms of death. We create a method of thought that gives us perpetuity.
GermanChocolateCake 1 year ago
@GermanChocolateCake In doing so, we find a way to salve our fear of death, a kind of emotional and intellectual band aid. But the objective truth is that all we have done is found a way to calm our instincts and rational fears about dying. We've, put bluntly, fooled ourselves for the sake of our minds.
Take any animal and provide a way that it can live beyond the normal expectations of its lifespan, and it will continue to live for as long as it is able. We are no different, and would do so too
GermanChocolateCake 1 year ago
@GermanChocolateCake were we able too. Religion attempts to create a means to provide that extension of normal life expectancy, so it is no wonder that we so easily latch on to it. It is filling an instinctual drive to continue living as long as possible. Unfortunately, in objective reality, it is still only an immaterial mental construct that exerts no actual change in the reality of life and death. It does not actually extend our lives. It simply allows us to think it does, and calms our fear.
GermanChocolateCake 1 year ago
@GermanChocolateCake
Dude, why don't you make a video about this?
laflugantabastardo 1 year ago
@laflugantabastardo I'd like to, but I lack a camera.
GermanChocolateCake 1 year ago
@GermanChocolateCake
You could replace the video with a slideshow, if you want. Just a suggestion. :-)
laflugantabastardo 1 year ago
@laflugantabastardo I've considered that, but all I have at my disposal is powerpoint. Does that upload to youtube? I've never bothered to find out. Mainly I just debate the religiously inclined in the comments =)
GermanChocolateCake 1 year ago
@GermanChocolateCake
Have you considered Windows Movie Maker?
laflugantabastardo 1 year ago
@laflugantabastardo Hmm, now that you mention it...(downloading)...
GermanChocolateCake 1 year ago
It is not in the Atheist best intrest to look for phonie cristians that are out there just to malnipulate the truth of truth.Because then the Athiest would have to work harder becoming being an Atheist. Just like the scientist now point to a Creator of all life. They had extra work to get done because of misleading theorys.
gaonasteve31 1 year ago
@gaonasteve31 You don't have to work at being an atheist o.O; At least you shouldn't have to. If you do I guess you're doing it wrong.
CuriousMoth 1 year ago
For those that had their prayers answered it already too late to become a Atheist.
gaonasteve31 1 year ago
Even if we are 'just machines' we are still machines that can enjoy their existence and I think that' enough for me.
S0chan 1 year ago
I think what bothers me most about religion is how they are all waiting, wishing, hoping, praying, and promising for paradise after we die. Their belief centers around death. Its almost sad to a point. I say we celebrate life while we absolutely KNOW we have it, and try to make heaven on earth. This may be the only heaven we will ever get. And if it is, im perfectly fine with that. Make the most of it while you can. While religious people worship death, i will be living my life
peace
MasterofDisaster17 1 year ago
Evidence of one thing existing isn't evidence for another.
Testimonial accounts are the worst form of evidence, if you can even call it evidence.
Dionysus187 1 year ago
And man went on to say: "Let us make robot in our image, according to our likeness...And man proceeded to create the robot in his image, in Man's image he created it." Doesn't that sound very similar to what happened in Genesis 1:26,27? Most of you blame the bible for the violence you see by the people who say they are "christian" but search for the true religion, one that makes sense, are non-violent, dont go to wars, and have explanations for things such as "why does God allow suffering?"
SuperTeriyakiMaster 2 years ago
I really do hope for something more...but I try not to think about death for the most part. The uncertainty is pretty depressing.
TheRealCates 2 years ago 11
The uncertainty is amazing! Look it doesn't really matter what happens to you when you die. You either go to happy land orrr... you go into a deep, deep sleep and never wake up. You'll never know you've died, you'll never know you've missed out on anything...
I think that not knowing is beautiful in a way.
MechanicalEvolution 2 years ago
@TheRealCates I find it consoling. We're effectively nothing is a sack of nothing. But it doesn't seem that way, so why not enjoy it?
AkiThePirate 1 year ago
@TheRealCates It is that very uncertainty, that very fear of the unknown, and the fear of non-existence that gives religion such a foothold on peoples lives. It provides a placebo to salve the fear.
GermanChocolateCake 1 year ago
@TheRealCates I jsut assume hardcore atheism is right, you die, your gone, no longer existing. But the good part is if I'm wrong, I get to go wow! instead of ohhh...the ol' afterlife...
PageofLegend 1 year ago
When yer dead you won't know it, so why worry about it?
maximusspqr 1 year ago 10
@TheRealCates nah man think about it.. Death will pass like going to sleep.. Perhaps u'll be sick or something but at least if your sick u know death is coming and they have meds to ease ur passing..
But I think sometimes life would get so old if u lived forever... I kind of hope for something more too.. At least a reunion with my friends far in the future.. Or at least a temporary moment to remember :)
SHIBBYiPANDA 1 year ago
meat computer. :)
l337pwnage 2 years ago
i wonder how these two men see value in human life if this is what they truly believe. If we're just "evolutionary machines", what gives humans value over rocks, insects, or machines? Why would raping, attacking, even killing a person be wrong if we're nothing more than machines? This wordlview is empty and gives no reason for living. I couldn't live like that and luckily i don't have to because i KNOW (not hope) that I was made with a soul by an all mighty God who loves me and loves you too.
tennis4eva93 2 years ago
Very well said tennis4eva.
God bless you (and even the non believers for that matter) :)
maltijien 2 years ago
Thank You!
tennis4eva93 2 years ago
@tennis4eva93.
The value in life is exactly what we give it, no more ,no less.
Just how does a supposedly ruling ghostly father figure give us meaning?
If there is an afterlife, surely that must diminish the value of this "earthly" life?
What you really mean is that you have trouble believing yourself to be a mere " meat computer", and would rather believe your an angel in waiting, only here to "earn your wings".
Just HOW do you KNOW that you indeed do have a soul? In the absence of evidence.
martiangrundy 2 years ago
"The value in life is exactly what we give it, no more, no less" When you say this your assuming that everyone values life. Suppose im a killer and give absolutely no value to the life of my victim. Does that mean that since I give this person no value, that they are in fact valueless? With that belief system, the value of a life becomes merely relative and a matter of opinion. YOU still have no real basis for why life has any value and left my initial question unanswered.
tennis4eva93 2 years ago
@tennis4eva93.
"Suppose im a killer and give absolutely no value to the life of my victim. Does that mean that since I give this person no value, that they are in fact valueless?"
To you they're meaningless, to the people who know and love them obviously not, this is what I was saying, WE give the value to things.
Why do YOU value your family more than a starving African child?
How much value does your god put on this same African child, quite obviously NOT the same value he places on you.
martiangrundy 2 years ago
God gives us value because of three simple but important things: 1) he made us in his image, and 2) he sacrificed his son on a cross to save us, and 3) He loves us. This is why we have value: because the creator of the universe values us.
tennis4eva93 2 years ago
@tennis4eva93.
"God gives us value because ---".
1, sorry, your relying on an anonymous old book of myth, have you any evidence this is the case?
Do you suppose god has a penis, nipples, hair, an appendix, (why would he need any)?
2, sorry, same anon old book. But even so, why is this a sacrifice, surely he had total autonomy, and could chose to do as he pleased, is he not supposedly omnipotent?
3, How do you KNOW "he loves us", a feeling, or do we go back to the book? Why does that give value?
martiangrundy 2 years ago 2
Illusionary prostheses has nothing to do with the super natural.
Stimulators in a prosthetic limb trigger brain sensations in the amputee's brain so that he may feel or have the illusion that the prosthetic limb is part of his body.
So there is feeling involved and a realistic/ material limb.
The S-Natural is unseen and unheard and you can not feel it (unless it is permissible)
maltijien 2 years ago
It'd be too conveniant to just agree on that nothing is felt, nor heard;
but the experience is more debatable than that: people can manage to evoke sensations within themselves, kinda like how a hypochondriac would make him/her self feel sick, or a nightmare might trigger one's senses. In all these cases, there is a feedback, even though the source is not genuine.
... though I originall just meant to say that "the supernatural" has always served as a placeholder for scientific explanations.
Bazompora 2 years ago
Yes true but we were talking (atleast I am) about the super natural like God, our Lady, Angels , apparitions, miracles not what the body experiences with sensations illusion's and mind tricks. I call that phenomena where scientists still cannot fully understand it or its a new discovery and need further studies.
Peace :)
maltijien 2 years ago
Never have I ever heard anyone proffer a reasonable explanation of a soul.
It seems to me as though the people have not even really thought about it in any depth.
As Dillahunty says, it's as if they just hope about it. But on a very superficial level.
We see because our eyes perceive some freq's of EM radiation, our retinas send the signals to the brain, that then interprets it, and we experience this as sight.
How does one see, when one is dead? After the eyes and brain are no longer working.
martiangrundy 2 years ago
The super natural can not be explained by Science...period.
Thats the problem with most people. If something can not be proven by Science then they reject it.
Well this is beyond Science my friend.
We don't need Science to believe it, we have our faith.
So its futile to mention em radiation, brain-signals etc... its pointless in this case
Peace :)
maltijien 2 years ago
All that is real is theoretically explainable by science; that which is not, only exists within the boundaries of imagination - personal or shared.
Rather than "just" rejecting "the supernatural", we label and classify it for what it is:
imaginary.
Bazompora 2 years ago
"All that is real is theoretically explainable by science"
Yes , I agree with you there 100%, however not for the rest.
You say Imaginary.
I say Super Natural.
The difference between us is Faith.
:)
maltijien 2 years ago
But then you also have to agree that faith is not a rational position and thus cannot be expected to be accepted or taken into account by others, right?
Bazompora 2 years ago
So what is it that you want (apart from faith,and the word of the Pope and the Vatican and the Bible) to be able to belief?
maltijien 2 years ago
Proof.
Bazompora 2 years ago
scientific proof I presume you mean.
Well that takes us back to square one.
Science cant explain the Super Natural.
maltijien 2 years ago
Actually, it can:
the supernatural can be explained as the sum of illusionary prostheses for where scientific explanations are lacking - for the time being.
Science means no less than knowledge (scientia in Latin) and implies the ongoing pursuit thereof;
if science/knowledge cannot explain "the supernatural", it is because "the supernatural" is not even known to exist in the first place.
Probability-wise, it is quite safe to say that "the supernatural" is also known to not exist.
Bazompora 2 years ago
"If science cannot explain the Super natural it is because the super natural is not even known to exist"
well again I say it is a question of believe/faith.
maltijien 2 years ago
Super natural is the consiquence of explaining what was unexplainable for those who could not understand.
MrPerseus2009 2 years ago
Im not sure i understand your last comment Mrperseus2009
maltijien 2 years ago
People two thousand years ago could not comprehend rain. Those people believed sacrifice would make thier God happy. An example of sacrifice is the story of Abel sacrificing his flock to God to make him happy. We now know that rain is caused by evaporation, condensation, and precipitation.
MrPerseus2009 2 years ago
Do you realise what you just said?
I have faith, so therefore I'll believe just whatever I please.
Can you explain any other part of your life where you use that kind of reasoning?
I doubt it.
I wonder why, in the endeavour that has garnered the human race the most benefit, over all time, is evidence scrutiny, and honesty so valued?
Because it is by far the best method we've yet devised to get to the reality of things.
The only place I know where science is disparaged is the USA.
martiangrundy 2 years ago
I have faith in my God.
You don't have faith and therfor you dont believe in whatever you please.
maltijien 2 years ago
Amen on that:
unlike "the faithfull", I don't believe in whatever pleases me.
Bazompora 2 years ago
Cont.---
I'm afraid if the evidence supports a proposition, I have no alternative but to go along with what the evidence