@chemistry377 Lebih baik mati berkalang tanah daripada hidup dijajah. You're right, the Indonesian government doesn't give a flying crap about their people. But don't you ever say Indonesia was better off by the Dutch. Freedom is priceless. Pejuang2 kemerdekaan sudah melaksanakan tugasnya dengan baik. I'm sure as sh*t they didn't want to see Indonesia heading in this direction. Membawa Indonesia ke tempat yang lebih baik, itu tugas generasi penerus para pejuang, bukan tugas para pejuang.
@krownzillan the past, the Dutch regime so constructed that you kings of your own district chords with it went with the business conditions, they left there by their nationals working for him so that the empire was so large and stable since 1910 that changed by Queen Wilhelmina that no longer wanted the Indonesian were exploited!
Netherlands do not forget that you were also free quality creed.
and not as if the Spaniards or Portuguese blood, and were forced to convert Cristen.
@chemistry377 u guys should just forced the conversion on us...Look at what Islam does to Indonesia...It creates terrorrism...had u Duthcs forced our conversion we'll all be a more civilised Christians. I also blammed the Dutch for not enforcing us to speak the language it would have been better...This is why the Dutch colonised country arent as advanced as say the Spanish or British
Dear brother, i am sure its about the mentality of the indonesian ppl, coz many britsh ex colonies, like Sudan,Oeganda,Nigeria, Zambia,zimbabwe,Sierra-leone,etc etc, are worser then indonesia.
its not that the dutch regime was in indonesia that indonesia is a looser state now.
its just the choices the indonesian ppl made.
and about religion in the year 1625 i believe we are free 2 believe in what ever we want 2 believe. So why should we convert the indonesians in cristians??
@chemistry377 But had the Dutch converted us from stupid Islam....we'll be a better country now. Islam is a disease more dangerous than HIV and cancer...I mean the Dutch gets money from trading in Indonesia. Don't u think at least they are morally responsible to get rid of the "DISESASE" in Islam?? and How bout speaking the language? Timor Leste can speak Portugese and many of the British colonies speak English BUT none of us Indos speak Dutch..I mean I'd agree the Dutch is potrayed ufairly here
@chemistry Con>> BUT I think the Dutch is not as responsible as the Spanish or British when it comes to colonies. Spain gives their colonies religion. British gives the language. Portugese gave both. Look at Indonesia now..its soon becoming a terrorrist nation. An Islamic nation....prosecuting minorities killing Christians and screaming Allah Akbar.They say Bung Tomo is a hero but I'd say bung Tomo is a rebel and terrorist as had the British came Indonesia would be liberated.
@chemistry377 I mainly blame the Dutch for not being responsible. What do you guys give to us? Nothing! U just take and don't give..Actually if I can choose I'd have the Spanish come to us or even the Portugese if u'd ask me. I mean u can see the football team for example. Islamic players get the priority in selection while Catholics despite being Indonesian league champions don't get pick. This is Indonesia now. Bastard Islam would come to church and abuse us while having mass.
@chemistry377 I mean I am married for example and I am very responsible. My wife was a Muslim BUT I converted her to Catholic thats my responsibility as a husband to liberate her from Terrorrism. The Dutch in this sense are irresponsible as Islam is still around spreading like a contagious disease worse they are replicating fast in Indonesia
Becose of pa karno the dutch language is not the sec language of the indonesians.
and also how many ppl spoke bahasa indonesia b4 Merdeka?
Indonesia is really good with pointing 2 others or 2 the dutch, and also good with manipulate his own ppl, and with religion they can achief alot these days in indonesia.
Believe 1 day u will get ur real Merdeka, Thats when indonesia will split in different parts!
Since then, a lot of fun furthest degree in Dutch East Indies and there was a slow process in a positive way!
that since Indonesia became independent on December 27, 1947, it was getting worse by their regime and was indoctuneerd you hate the Dutch that she wanted to lay the blame Netherlands.
the fact is that at school often only the bad deeds Netherlands to spend their people and not positive, afraid to simpatie Netherlands.
@krownzillan if the Netherlands had stayed a little longer in Indonesia or the board of the Netherlands had succeeded in driving Indonesia it was not as bad as this.
Take a sample malaysia which the 70 had close ties with England.
I myself live now in Indonesia on average four months a year and as I often met the elite of Indonesia then I often spoke with pride about the Netherlands and their presence there.
URIP DI JAJAH REKOSO WES DO MERDEKA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YO MALAH DO PERANG KARO BOLO DEWE HAWWUDDD HAWUUUUUUUUDDDDDDD..... KAPAN INDONESIA URIPPPPPPPP MAKMUR KAKEAN KOROPSIE SENG DUE JABATAN KOK AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNN..............
@83UtrechtNL get over it.. now u feel unhappy about this movie.. how about us?? ur dutch brother geert wilder has spread false about islam.. once we feel unhappy, we are labelled as 'terrorist' , 'radicals' or watsoever.. this movie only show about bad dutch people.. its nothing going to do with christianity or other religion..
@83UtrechtNL Sorry, but that's just how it works. An important part of nationalism is the conception of a people's identity in context of their differences to others. For there to be 'us', there must be 'them'. This is to allow a people to view itself as separate, distinct and independent. To unite disparate peoples with little conception of belonging to a nation requires the existence of a great evil, or at least, the perception of the existence of such. cont.~
~cont. The Dutch, being former colonial masters, suit the purpose well. And until Indonesia matures, it will continue to require enemies in order to hold itself together. Nothing you or I can do about it. Besides, it isn't exactly untrue that the Netherlands did not benefit from the ruthless exploitation of Indonesia's people and resources, that's the essence of colonialism after all. I admit Queen Wilhelmina tried to change things but in grand scheme of things, it is insignificant.
@RoniCMaster That might all be true, but you would have been better of if the Dutch were still in charge there. Ruthless exploitation thats the name you give it, but there was some good too, look at all the indonesians who choose our side.
And btw, we are not like nazi's, and thats how they make it look in this movie.
@83UtrechtNL The few good for the public came with the implementation of the Ethical Policy in 1901. Prior to that, Indonesia was viewed as a wingewest, a cash cow. Additionally, the program was limited in scope due to the lack of funds and did not uplift the living standards for the majority of Indonesia's people. Also, I fail to see how the Dutch, 11,000 km away from home, could justify its imperialist ambitions in the face of a new paradigm of national identity and self-determination.
@RoniCMaster And after the Dutch left it was all good, and everybody was equal and rich? And what about the Molukkans who lost their freedom, and served the Dutch for more than 300 years?
In essence it might be right that colonialism and exploitation are wrong. And in the first place we shouldnt have been there. But there was relative harmony until the Japanese came an radicalised the people against us, all of a sudden it was all bad.
@83Utrecht Remember this, self-determination does not always entail instantaneous equality and wealth. Nation-building is a process, and a very long one at that. Indeed, some groups who supported the colonial order suffered after the Dutch left but it doesn't change the fact that the majority has benefited. Indonesia's per capita income in 1945 was merely US$70, today it is nearly US$3000 (inflation adjusted). Also, regardless of what the Japanese did, they did show the Indonesian people cont.~
~cont. that it is possible to fight the Dutch. Prior to the Japanese invasion of the Dutch East Indies, the Dutch colonial authority have been very successful both in suppressing Indonesian nationalist and independence movement and perpetuating the myth of the White Man's superiority. The Indonesian people, for the most part, believed the Dutch invincible, which saved the colony a lot of rebellions. So, the Japanese, in their invasion, destroyed that myth and the provided the tools cont.~
~cont. necessary for Indonesia's subsequent struggle for Independence. Armed units such as the Hei-ho and PETA were created, trained and armed by the Japanese. The Japanese, of course, intended to use them for their own imperialist ambitions. But regardless of their intentions, their defeat in WW2 meant that they can no longer pursue those ambitions, allowing these groups to form the core of the armed wing of Indonesia's independence movement. The Japanese did not need to radicalize cont.~
~cont. a people who had, all along, wanted their independence. All Japan provided was a conducive environment. Of course, you can mention the Molukkans and other minority groups who would not want Indonesia's independence due to their vested interests in the Dutch colonial order. It is understandable, due to conventional colonial procedure of favoring minorities and using them to administer the masses. But, you cannot justify the benefits of those few at the expense of everyone else.
@RoniCMaster It also doesnt justify for the Indonesians having won their ''freedom'' from the dutch, to treat other minorities the same (or maybe worse) than their so hated colonial opressors did. Thats exactly what happened, and what always happens.
Maybe they thought the Dutch could be defeated, but it turned out to be untrue. When the police actions started we defeated all rebels, and could push on easy to take over the new government. Only after strong international pressure we had~
@RoniCMaster ~to withdraw our troops and recognise Indonesian independance.
So the Dutch were, even after WW2, obviously the strongest party, and even won the war that had to decide the future of your country, but you didnt win it, it was given to you. So that maybe sais something about, not so much white superiority, but Dutch superiority. We are the best, always were, so you should have been proud to be part of our glorious empire.
@83UtrechtNL Indeed, the Dutch, equipped through the US lend-lease program was militarily far more powerful than the ragtag band of rebels that formed the armed wing of Indonesia's independence movement. They were able to take control of most major cities in the archipelago as well as strategic locations of vital military and economic importance. However, international support was against the Dutch by that time. The British did not favor the war, having gone through the Battle of Surabaya cont.~
~cont. which they had won militarily but the cost of which made them reluctant to be dragged further. Relentless guerrilla warfare and the actions of the diplomatic arm of the independence movement helped to win the case for the Republic's recognition in the international stage of public opinions. While it is true that the Dutch left because of pressure from many countries including the US, which threatened to end the Marshall Plan, it is also true that it would not have gotten to that cont.~
~cont. stage had the Indonesian people accepted the Dutch return. Instead, they opted for Independence and the bloodletting it entails. Under such conditions, it was only a matter of time before the Dutch had to give up. True, you managed to control numerous strategic locations of vital interests, cities, ports, plantations, mines. But what is a country? It is not cities, ports, plantations or mines, it's the people. You cannot control a nation whose masses do not support you. cont.~
~cont. As for the minorities whom you said are ill-treated. Yeah, it's true. I know because I am an ethnic minority too. But it is only to be expected of a young nation that's made up by stringing together 350 ethnic groups speaking 300 different languages across 18,000 islands. You don't get harmony instantaneously out of that. How long does it take for the US to recognize the blacks as their equals? In a country as diverse as Indonesia, I'm certain that it will be an even longer process.
@RoniCMaster This was partially because they saw us, at least as a stable government, and they were uncertain about the future. and also because the new rebel armies caused more trouble to them as civilians than the Dutch ever did.
That said, some people were now destined to be free, but without the proper military resources, and international support, they just would have been beaten time and again.
But not only the US and other major countries supported Indonesian independance, many Dutch~
@RoniCMaster People also did. After Mltatuli revealed the racism and exploitation of the indonesian people, at the end of the 19th century many Dutch people started to look differently upon the colonial empire, and the way to treat the peolpe you rule, or even if its right to rule other people anyway. So alot of people were ok with it, and were shocked and unhappy about the military intervention that followed.
I have to say your a resonable guy, and even after i provoced you with Dutch~
@RoniCMaster ~ superiority and other exadurations, you remainded calm and didn't fail to give good arguments, and facts, without getting angry or insulted.
Like i said i exadurated and i have to agree with you on most counts.
I DID feel insulted by the way Dutch soldiers were portraited in this movie, thats why i commented in the first place. Just because i'm ready to face my own history, good and bad, but I just don't wanna think about my ancestors as immoral nazi like people.
@RoniCMaster I disagree that it couldnt come to a point of reastablished Dutch control. If we would have stayed, and overthrown the new government, the people wouldnt have got a choice, just like before the war. Most people are not revolutionaries, they just passively look at who's the strongest party, and join them, all they want is peace and harmony, and to feed their children, they dont care who provides it.
When the Politionele Akties started, many indonesians saw us as liberators. ~
emang Kerajaan belanda pke senjata/ Us Uniform karena mereka tak punya senjata sendiri utk
menyerang kita , 1940 Laskar belanda kalah dgn Laskar Werhmacht "Laskar Jerman"
krna mereka punyai senjata dari era 1880-1900
dan Jerman paling Modern waktu Dai Nippon datang utk membebaskan Asia Timur Raya Mereka langsung kalah dgn oleh senjata2 antique oleh karena itu pasukan2 Allied Forces "
Belanda ikut skim "Lend & Lease" USA, sebab itulah mereka dapat senjata dan bekalan USA. lagipun masa ini ialah pasca Perang Dunia Kedua, tidak hairan juga memandangkan Belanda masih sekutu USA.
Saya pelajar sejarah. Berkongsi ilmu tidak salah. Kesilapan besar jika tidak belajar, menganggap diri sudah pandai. Lihat sahaja China di abad ke-19. Tidak mahu belajar, jatuh tersungkur dek kuasa Barat. Dan perang itu neraka. Tuduh saya pasifis tapi kita tidak harus mengimpikan peperangan.
A very bad movie unfortunatly. It's one sided, uncompromising and alot more of that.
The combat scenes are terrible, the emotions are unrealistic and exadurated.
Some of the Dutch soldiers werent even dutch and spoke some sort of broken language.
But the worst thing is that this movie is historically incorrect. The Dutch are portrayed as facist animals who liked to kill civilians.
Bad things happened on both sides, and apart from exeptions most soldiers just did their duty.
Peace
83UtrechtNL 1 month ago
film'e bagus buat nyadarin para pimpinan kita
bahwa dulu Indonesia merdeka bukan hadiah dari Jepang/Belanda
kita memperjuangkan harta,diri dan harga diri kita
memang Indonesia udah freedom from colonialist
tapi kita masih aja di jajah sama bangsa sendiri
cape deh.... :D
FirlyIsVrly 6 months ago
part 2 dan seterusnya mana nih?
briliano 6 months ago
Freedom or Death ...
Beii211 7 months ago
waduh aku ini stengeh blanda setengah indo terus gimana dong mati? nggak? gw tinggal di blanda 3 tahun nih !?????/
Ind0NL 7 months ago
yang kedua mana pusing cari2 ga dapat
CH0KEL 7 months ago
MATI KAU ANJING ANJING BELANDA!
rarukawa123 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
nice movie...!part 2 N next ko g da?? ?trs HATI MERDEKA kpn diupload??btw skrg aku diKSA & dsn g da bioskop..!?!?!?thanx
priigi 8 months ago
nice movie...!part 2 N next ko g da?? ?trs HATI MERDEKA kpn diupload??btw skrg aku diKSA & dsn g da bioskop..!?!?!?thanx
priigi 8 months ago
merdeka 4 who????
the chinese took all the dutch business over and the goverment of indonesia dont care bout there ppl.
all the sources they lease 2 western countrys.
i am sure indonesia was better off by the dutch!
but for the majority of the indonesian ppl who never bin 2 school will never understand, kasiang :-/
chemistry377 8 months ago
@chemistry377 Lebih baik mati berkalang tanah daripada hidup dijajah. You're right, the Indonesian government doesn't give a flying crap about their people. But don't you ever say Indonesia was better off by the Dutch. Freedom is priceless. Pejuang2 kemerdekaan sudah melaksanakan tugasnya dengan baik. I'm sure as sh*t they didn't want to see Indonesia heading in this direction. Membawa Indonesia ke tempat yang lebih baik, itu tugas generasi penerus para pejuang, bukan tugas para pejuang.
krownzilla 8 months ago
@krownzillan the past, the Dutch regime so constructed that you kings of your own district chords with it went with the business conditions, they left there by their nationals working for him so that the empire was so large and stable since 1910 that changed by Queen Wilhelmina that no longer wanted the Indonesian were exploited!
Netherlands do not forget that you were also free quality creed.
and not as if the Spaniards or Portuguese blood, and were forced to convert Cristen.
chemistry377 7 months ago
@chemistry377 u guys should just forced the conversion on us...Look at what Islam does to Indonesia...It creates terrorrism...had u Duthcs forced our conversion we'll all be a more civilised Christians. I also blammed the Dutch for not enforcing us to speak the language it would have been better...This is why the Dutch colonised country arent as advanced as say the Spanish or British
interfanthirtytwo 3 weeks ago
@interfanthirtytwo
Dear brother, i am sure its about the mentality of the indonesian ppl, coz many britsh ex colonies, like Sudan,Oeganda,Nigeria, Zambia,zimbabwe,Sierra-leone,etc etc, are worser then indonesia.
its not that the dutch regime was in indonesia that indonesia is a looser state now.
its just the choices the indonesian ppl made.
and about religion in the year 1625 i believe we are free 2 believe in what ever we want 2 believe. So why should we convert the indonesians in cristians??
chemistry377 3 weeks ago
@chemistry377 But had the Dutch converted us from stupid Islam....we'll be a better country now. Islam is a disease more dangerous than HIV and cancer...I mean the Dutch gets money from trading in Indonesia. Don't u think at least they are morally responsible to get rid of the "DISESASE" in Islam?? and How bout speaking the language? Timor Leste can speak Portugese and many of the British colonies speak English BUT none of us Indos speak Dutch..I mean I'd agree the Dutch is potrayed ufairly here
interfanthirtytwo 3 weeks ago
@chemistry Con>> BUT I think the Dutch is not as responsible as the Spanish or British when it comes to colonies. Spain gives their colonies religion. British gives the language. Portugese gave both. Look at Indonesia now..its soon becoming a terrorrist nation. An Islamic nation....prosecuting minorities killing Christians and screaming Allah Akbar.They say Bung Tomo is a hero but I'd say bung Tomo is a rebel and terrorist as had the British came Indonesia would be liberated.
interfanthirtytwo 3 weeks ago
@chemistry377 I mainly blame the Dutch for not being responsible. What do you guys give to us? Nothing! U just take and don't give..Actually if I can choose I'd have the Spanish come to us or even the Portugese if u'd ask me. I mean u can see the football team for example. Islamic players get the priority in selection while Catholics despite being Indonesian league champions don't get pick. This is Indonesia now. Bastard Islam would come to church and abuse us while having mass.
interfanthirtytwo 3 weeks ago
@chemistry377 I mean I am married for example and I am very responsible. My wife was a Muslim BUT I converted her to Catholic thats my responsibility as a husband to liberate her from Terrorrism. The Dutch in this sense are irresponsible as Islam is still around spreading like a contagious disease worse they are replicating fast in Indonesia
interfanthirtytwo 3 weeks ago
@interfanthirtytwo
The dutch was in war for 80 years with the spanish coz they want us 2 be come all catholic.
The spanish ppl killed all most all the population in south america coz they didnt want 2 b come catholic.
The dutch VOC came all over the world only 2 make money not 2 force ppl 2 bcome cristians (thats why we have a long trade history with japan)
And about the dutch language, isnt it that pa karno said when we didnt want 2 give papua new guinea 2 indonesia.
2 blocked dutch language?
chemistry377 3 weeks ago
@interfanthirtytwo
Becose of pa karno the dutch language is not the sec language of the indonesians.
and also how many ppl spoke bahasa indonesia b4 Merdeka?
Indonesia is really good with pointing 2 others or 2 the dutch, and also good with manipulate his own ppl, and with religion they can achief alot these days in indonesia.
Believe 1 day u will get ur real Merdeka, Thats when indonesia will split in different parts!
chemistry377 3 weeks ago
@krownzillan
Since then, a lot of fun furthest degree in Dutch East Indies and there was a slow process in a positive way!
that since Indonesia became independent on December 27, 1947, it was getting worse by their regime and was indoctuneerd you hate the Dutch that she wanted to lay the blame Netherlands.
the fact is that at school often only the bad deeds Netherlands to spend their people and not positive, afraid to simpatie Netherlands.
chemistry377 7 months ago
@krownzillan if the Netherlands had stayed a little longer in Indonesia or the board of the Netherlands had succeeded in driving Indonesia it was not as bad as this.
Take a sample malaysia which the 70 had close ties with England.
I myself live now in Indonesia on average four months a year and as I often met the elite of Indonesia then I often spoke with pride about the Netherlands and their presence there.
chemistry377 7 months ago
Comment removed
chemistry377 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@krownzillawith the emergence of the United Nations in 1947 people got more rights, such as a human right.
something that still does not exist in Indonesia
It is a pity that the people in Indonesia are kept stupid and are exploited by their political rulers, such as the hungry people in eastern Indonesia.
That the people of Papua are not free 2 travel indonesia.
TKI modern slavery send two other countrys
and i can go on and on and on,
chemistry377 7 months ago
@krownzilla both my grandparents are from Indonesia, two grandmothers were mixed.
and one grandfather was a Dutchman and his family lived already almost 200 years in the dutch-indies. and other Moluccan islands.
and they lived in total freedom!
but so said that they where forest 2 move out of indonesia during the time of bung karno...
just b honest what did the indonesian majority win after merdeka?
chemistry377 7 months ago
merah putih didadaku
roy83347 8 months ago
URIP DI JAJAH REKOSO WES DO MERDEKA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YO MALAH DO PERANG KARO BOLO DEWE HAWWUDDD HAWUUUUUUUUDDDDDDD..... KAPAN INDONESIA URIPPPPPPPP MAKMUR KAKEAN KOROPSIE SENG DUE JABATAN KOK AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNN..............
dwiaza 9 months ago
They make us Dutch look like animals, fuck that. Half of the indonesian population welcomed us as liberators after the japs left
83UtrechtNL 10 months ago
@83UtrechtNL get over it.. now u feel unhappy about this movie.. how about us?? ur dutch brother geert wilder has spread false about islam.. once we feel unhappy, we are labelled as 'terrorist' , 'radicals' or watsoever.. this movie only show about bad dutch people.. its nothing going to do with christianity or other religion..
Ruzaini07 10 months ago
@83UtrechtNL Sorry, but that's just how it works. An important part of nationalism is the conception of a people's identity in context of their differences to others. For there to be 'us', there must be 'them'. This is to allow a people to view itself as separate, distinct and independent. To unite disparate peoples with little conception of belonging to a nation requires the existence of a great evil, or at least, the perception of the existence of such. cont.~
RoniCMaster 10 months ago
~cont. The Dutch, being former colonial masters, suit the purpose well. And until Indonesia matures, it will continue to require enemies in order to hold itself together. Nothing you or I can do about it. Besides, it isn't exactly untrue that the Netherlands did not benefit from the ruthless exploitation of Indonesia's people and resources, that's the essence of colonialism after all. I admit Queen Wilhelmina tried to change things but in grand scheme of things, it is insignificant.
RoniCMaster 10 months ago
@RoniCMaster That might all be true, but you would have been better of if the Dutch were still in charge there. Ruthless exploitation thats the name you give it, but there was some good too, look at all the indonesians who choose our side.
And btw, we are not like nazi's, and thats how they make it look in this movie.
83UtrechtNL 10 months ago
@83UtrechtNL The few good for the public came with the implementation of the Ethical Policy in 1901. Prior to that, Indonesia was viewed as a wingewest, a cash cow. Additionally, the program was limited in scope due to the lack of funds and did not uplift the living standards for the majority of Indonesia's people. Also, I fail to see how the Dutch, 11,000 km away from home, could justify its imperialist ambitions in the face of a new paradigm of national identity and self-determination.
RoniCMaster 10 months ago
@RoniCMaster And after the Dutch left it was all good, and everybody was equal and rich? And what about the Molukkans who lost their freedom, and served the Dutch for more than 300 years?
In essence it might be right that colonialism and exploitation are wrong. And in the first place we shouldnt have been there. But there was relative harmony until the Japanese came an radicalised the people against us, all of a sudden it was all bad.
83UtrechtNL 10 months ago
@83Utrecht Remember this, self-determination does not always entail instantaneous equality and wealth. Nation-building is a process, and a very long one at that. Indeed, some groups who supported the colonial order suffered after the Dutch left but it doesn't change the fact that the majority has benefited. Indonesia's per capita income in 1945 was merely US$70, today it is nearly US$3000 (inflation adjusted). Also, regardless of what the Japanese did, they did show the Indonesian people cont.~
RoniCMaster 10 months ago
~cont. that it is possible to fight the Dutch. Prior to the Japanese invasion of the Dutch East Indies, the Dutch colonial authority have been very successful both in suppressing Indonesian nationalist and independence movement and perpetuating the myth of the White Man's superiority. The Indonesian people, for the most part, believed the Dutch invincible, which saved the colony a lot of rebellions. So, the Japanese, in their invasion, destroyed that myth and the provided the tools cont.~
RoniCMaster 10 months ago
~cont. necessary for Indonesia's subsequent struggle for Independence. Armed units such as the Hei-ho and PETA were created, trained and armed by the Japanese. The Japanese, of course, intended to use them for their own imperialist ambitions. But regardless of their intentions, their defeat in WW2 meant that they can no longer pursue those ambitions, allowing these groups to form the core of the armed wing of Indonesia's independence movement. The Japanese did not need to radicalize cont.~
RoniCMaster 10 months ago
~cont. a people who had, all along, wanted their independence. All Japan provided was a conducive environment. Of course, you can mention the Molukkans and other minority groups who would not want Indonesia's independence due to their vested interests in the Dutch colonial order. It is understandable, due to conventional colonial procedure of favoring minorities and using them to administer the masses. But, you cannot justify the benefits of those few at the expense of everyone else.
RoniCMaster 10 months ago
@RoniCMaster It also doesnt justify for the Indonesians having won their ''freedom'' from the dutch, to treat other minorities the same (or maybe worse) than their so hated colonial opressors did. Thats exactly what happened, and what always happens.
Maybe they thought the Dutch could be defeated, but it turned out to be untrue. When the police actions started we defeated all rebels, and could push on easy to take over the new government. Only after strong international pressure we had~
83UtrechtNL 10 months ago
@RoniCMaster ~to withdraw our troops and recognise Indonesian independance.
So the Dutch were, even after WW2, obviously the strongest party, and even won the war that had to decide the future of your country, but you didnt win it, it was given to you. So that maybe sais something about, not so much white superiority, but Dutch superiority. We are the best, always were, so you should have been proud to be part of our glorious empire.
83UtrechtNL 10 months ago
@83UtrechtNL Indeed, the Dutch, equipped through the US lend-lease program was militarily far more powerful than the ragtag band of rebels that formed the armed wing of Indonesia's independence movement. They were able to take control of most major cities in the archipelago as well as strategic locations of vital military and economic importance. However, international support was against the Dutch by that time. The British did not favor the war, having gone through the Battle of Surabaya cont.~
RoniCMaster 10 months ago
~cont. which they had won militarily but the cost of which made them reluctant to be dragged further. Relentless guerrilla warfare and the actions of the diplomatic arm of the independence movement helped to win the case for the Republic's recognition in the international stage of public opinions. While it is true that the Dutch left because of pressure from many countries including the US, which threatened to end the Marshall Plan, it is also true that it would not have gotten to that cont.~
RoniCMaster 10 months ago
~cont. stage had the Indonesian people accepted the Dutch return. Instead, they opted for Independence and the bloodletting it entails. Under such conditions, it was only a matter of time before the Dutch had to give up. True, you managed to control numerous strategic locations of vital interests, cities, ports, plantations, mines. But what is a country? It is not cities, ports, plantations or mines, it's the people. You cannot control a nation whose masses do not support you. cont.~
RoniCMaster 10 months ago
~cont. As for the minorities whom you said are ill-treated. Yeah, it's true. I know because I am an ethnic minority too. But it is only to be expected of a young nation that's made up by stringing together 350 ethnic groups speaking 300 different languages across 18,000 islands. You don't get harmony instantaneously out of that. How long does it take for the US to recognize the blacks as their equals? In a country as diverse as Indonesia, I'm certain that it will be an even longer process.
RoniCMaster 10 months ago
@RoniCMaster This was partially because they saw us, at least as a stable government, and they were uncertain about the future. and also because the new rebel armies caused more trouble to them as civilians than the Dutch ever did.
That said, some people were now destined to be free, but without the proper military resources, and international support, they just would have been beaten time and again.
But not only the US and other major countries supported Indonesian independance, many Dutch~
83UtrechtNL 10 months ago
@RoniCMaster People also did. After Mltatuli revealed the racism and exploitation of the indonesian people, at the end of the 19th century many Dutch people started to look differently upon the colonial empire, and the way to treat the peolpe you rule, or even if its right to rule other people anyway. So alot of people were ok with it, and were shocked and unhappy about the military intervention that followed.
I have to say your a resonable guy, and even after i provoced you with Dutch~
83UtrechtNL 10 months ago
@RoniCMaster ~ superiority and other exadurations, you remainded calm and didn't fail to give good arguments, and facts, without getting angry or insulted.
Like i said i exadurated and i have to agree with you on most counts.
I DID feel insulted by the way Dutch soldiers were portraited in this movie, thats why i commented in the first place. Just because i'm ready to face my own history, good and bad, but I just don't wanna think about my ancestors as immoral nazi like people.
83UtrechtNL 10 months ago
@RoniCMaster I disagree that it couldnt come to a point of reastablished Dutch control. If we would have stayed, and overthrown the new government, the people wouldnt have got a choice, just like before the war. Most people are not revolutionaries, they just passively look at who's the strongest party, and join them, all they want is peace and harmony, and to feed their children, they dont care who provides it.
When the Politionele Akties started, many indonesians saw us as liberators. ~
83UtrechtNL 10 months ago
what are they saying
Terrorkarel 11 months ago
minta diteruskan! saya sudah melihat darah garuda merah putih 2. harap semangat revolusi sampai ke malaysia.
hikari2905 1 year ago
ya ampun aku baru tau belanda ya pake baju,senjata,dan kedaraaan sama kaya america!!!
RootBeerProductionz 1 year ago
@RootBeerProductionz iloh baru tau yah ?
emang Kerajaan belanda pke senjata/ Us Uniform karena mereka tak punya senjata sendiri utk
menyerang kita , 1940 Laskar belanda kalah dgn Laskar Werhmacht "Laskar Jerman"
krna mereka punyai senjata dari era 1880-1900
dan Jerman paling Modern waktu Dai Nippon datang utk membebaskan Asia Timur Raya Mereka langsung kalah dgn oleh senjata2 antique oleh karena itu pasukan2 Allied Forces "
untuk menjajah kita lagi
TheAsianist 1 year ago
@RootBeerProductionz
Belanda ikut skim "Lend & Lease" USA, sebab itulah mereka dapat senjata dan bekalan USA. lagipun masa ini ialah pasca Perang Dunia Kedua, tidak hairan juga memandangkan Belanda masih sekutu USA.
hikari2905 1 year ago
@hikari2905 Malaysia ga usah comment deh diem aja...what do u know about war.....
interfanthirtytwo 3 weeks ago
@interfanthirtytwo
Saya pelajar sejarah. Berkongsi ilmu tidak salah. Kesilapan besar jika tidak belajar, menganggap diri sudah pandai. Lihat sahaja China di abad ke-19. Tidak mahu belajar, jatuh tersungkur dek kuasa Barat. Dan perang itu neraka. Tuduh saya pasifis tapi kita tidak harus mengimpikan peperangan.
hikari2905 2 weeks ago
Merdeka Republik Indonesia!!!!
k3ndragon 1 year ago
UNTUK SATU TUJUAN KITA..
MERDEKA!!!!!!!
MrDayat212 1 year ago
maju bangsaku..
AYO BERSATU BANGSAKU....
MrDayat212 1 year ago
Aargh pengen nonton. Terusannya dong~
batSkull22 1 year ago
mas bro,,,,part 2nye mane,,,
kriboify 1 year ago
terusan nya mana ???
MrZCharla 1 year ago
saya orang ketiga ~ merdeka ♥•♡ • • °
jengkiesville 1 year ago
K E L I M A X
kefinaza 1 year ago
part 2 nya mana?
zodhprat 1 year ago
MERDEKA............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
abdoeljambi 1 year ago
KEDUAX lahh
doriidorii 1 year ago
P E R T A M A X
5471472 1 year ago