Classical Guitar Lesson #2: P stroke

[MyFire11]

omg all so long.... comments not gonna read

[SesaayGayeaa154]

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[ListenToOurTorture]

should you cut your nails really short? they always just seem to catch on the strings and make it harder.

[salamhi]

sorry to say this, but that is not the proper way to hold the fingers, specially the P

you can play the guitar like that but you can never become a pro like that.

[otharennaur]

How long should the P nail be? I just can't get it :(. Btw, g string's a little bit out of tune.

[RiCorr]

Re your thumb: Charles Duncan's book, 'The Art of Classical Guitar Playing' includes a picture of a thumb very much like this and calls it 'dysfunctional" (sic). The "hyper-extended basal segment of the thumb" comes about "through an unconscious contraction of the extensor muscle, with a corresponding underemployment of the flexor muscle in the ball of the thumb. It's major weakness is that it prevents finesses of attack".

His words, not mine! Does Shearer recommend this thumb position?

[Lutemann]

@RiCorr

It's pretty much what Shearer recommends. The best way to describe it is that all three joints extend together (to varying degrees) and all three joints flex together. It's pretty close to what David Russell does. Having said that, I've seen a lot of different P strokes that work well.

[RiCorr]

Interesting video. You make some good points as does Shearer in his new book 'Learning the Classic Guitar, Part 2'. But I , like Deliata, wonder why you bend the first joint of your thumb. Perhaps you do it so as to counteract a double-jointed thumb or perhaps this is what Shearer recommends. Does he?

[Iaokanan29]

thanks a lot! I'm beggining to study with Shearer's method. Your explanations have been very useful

[needyoubeside]

thanks U very much

[canaan1967]

I can't tell which strings and fingers you are using on the 3 stroke. Maybe I missed a video

[Deliata]

Maybe i did use the wrong word to descibe.On the video 107 you are showing as middle joint should be strait your's is slightly bend it as you play during the video.Again sorry if i offended you.That what i did learn from Antonio Dumezic. Raffi Aslanyan, and finally Carlos Bonell. And also it is important think if you feel you are producing god sound what ever the position you are doing that's the one is wright.Best regard

[Lutemann]

I really need to do the P stroke video over again. What I really wanted to say was that all three joints of the 'P' extend together to the string, and then all three joints flex together. The middle joint does not have a very large range of motion, and for some peple it won't move at all. People who hold the P- tip fully extended will tend to move almost exclusively from the wrist joint.

[Deliata]

Hi .I am not trying to be rude .but you finger positioning P is wrong,it is not supposed to be bend,at least it must be strait,

best regard .

[Lutemann]

I'm not sure what you mean by "wrong" There are various schools of thought on the 'P' stroke, all of which are used by fine players.

[Lutemann]

Dear ericaltendorf,

You have really brought up some good points. Yes, you must move latterally a little with P even though it can't really be seen. The reason you should minimize the latteral movement is for efficiency (IMO). All latteral movement is wasted movement and contributes nothing to the stroke. P does make a very narrow eliptical motion in order to avoid hitting the string on ectension.

[ericaltendorf]

It seems the question of "straight-line" vs "circular" P stroke has to do with the return. It is fine to strike the string in a straight line, but clearly the thumb cannot follow exactly the reverse straight line back, or it would strike the string on return. It must move laterally somehow to bypass the string. (I actually have the same confusion about using 1st segment extension to clear the strings on ima free stroke return.) Lutemann, what is your take on this aspect of the stroke?

[Lutemann]

Part 2

As far as the fingers hitting the strings on the return, that is not a problem. There is a delay ( you don't have to think about it) in the natural extension of the middle joint which allow the finger to miss the string on the return.

[Herbertyim]

thank you for the nice lesson!

It is useful ;)

[kalodio94]

if the guitar is very old the sound of the guitar will be more great

[5lug]

does that only apply to classical guitars?

[Lutemann]

No.

[samboskull]

So by your logic a guitar that was used by spanish people 200 years ago will sound great today?

No. Because it would break. When the first guitars came out, everyone was saying "fuck those, our lutes are better". In 20 years time people will be hunting down a '99 Strat for that "vintage" sound. So no, the quality of sound is not determined by age it's determined by how good a guitar is.

[FunkyMonk827]

your a dumb ass, hes saying that '99 strat will sound better in 2040 than it did in 1999.

[Fichtezxc]

It's more for acoustics and build quality that anything. An acoustic guitar with a solid wood top will begin to sound better over time as the wood ages and stretches just like a violin. The more it's played the fuller and warmer and louder it will sound because the properties of the wood will change. Older wood=better tone under most circumstances. Why do you think people pay tens of thousands of dollars for violins. Electric guitars on the other hand were made better in the 60's than theyarenow

[Fichtezxc]

old violins that is. Wood has a subtle effect on electric guitars but a tremendous effect on acoustics.

[Laser39]

iwe got the same guitar

[ls1phsyco]

Classic Guitar in my opinion is the hardest to play!

[juglis]

I'm right beside you.

I play electric and classic guitar. The latter makes me feel like killing myself more often haha.

NOTE: i'm not suicidial it was just making a funny comment. A little dark humor doesn't harm anyone.

[ls1phsyco]

I know what you mean, I already know how to use my right hand for finger picking but man, you have to really worm up and practice to preform a song.

[budric]

Hi, when playing the 6th string do you still rest ima on the 1st string, or do you rest them anywhere/nowhere? Also, when I try to play consecutive strings (e.g. 6,5) my thumb hits the ringing string. Do you play with a straight thumb or curved. Curved thumb hits the previous string...

Thanks, great videos.

[Lutemann]

You only rest ima on the first string in the beginning to get the feel of playing P. In the Shearer books he starts with a bunch of pieces that only use the P stroke on 4th, 3rd and 2nd strings. Here you would rest ima on the first string.

[frankafru]

my dad gave me a 43 year old guitar...is it worth anything? kinda looks busted

[pavoloco]

I just bought my first classical guitar. A Cordoba C5-CE. What do you guys think?  I love it.

[alkiwanmk]

:( i don't have a classic guitar but hey i am gonna have one soon

[meeetthh]

ooh really, how intresting for us to know that. Thanks for sharing.

[CudenParazit]

thanks

[mabloodyvalentine]

yeah sir you are realy great thanks

[aurimeskis]

yay

[amydramine]

u jus makin things complex my man...

[crazydeadbread]

I was classically trained as a pianist since 8 years old. At 16 I moved on to shred on the electric. I've been dabbling in classical guitar, since my only acoustic is the traditional. But I never had anyone to show me proper hand position. This series is a goldmine for me. It shows those who have never had classical lessons, from an instructor, what the proper form is. Technique is everything, even for those that play with little of it.

[Virtuosome]

I'm confused, but what do you mean by playing "P" or using fingers "i"

"m" and "a"? I have never heard of such a thing.

[Lutemann]

I said that if you position the hand so the when you play 'i' 'm' or 'a', the 'a' is perpendicular to the strings. You keep this same position when playing p.

[crazydeadbread]

I think there was a different angle on the question:

p=thumb

i=index

m=middle

a=ring

c=pinky.

Did that clear it up Virtuosome?

[whateverman1000]

I meant to give you a "p's" up -sorry

[replicant10000]

That was interesting.

I have a book entitled "The Usborne book of easy guitar tunes" by Emma Danes and it says something like "the thumb should make a circle shape in the air" for a free stroke. Either that's wrong or I misread it.

[Lutemann]

The most efficient movement for 'P' in my view is a straight line. It moves the same way the rest of the fingers do. Players who tilt the hand to the right probably need use a more circular motion. If you position your right hand so that the 'a' finger is perpendicular to the string, you can play a straight line P stroke.

[JesseGuitar07]

love your music,love your work! i will surely subscribe

5 star*****

With Respect~~

JESSE

[Lutemann]

Thank you. I really do appreciate the positive feedback.

[JesseGuitar07]

no worries~~hey check my video let me know what you think

cheers

jesse

[scrollandkey]

I have always been told that the P needs to stick out on the horizontal away from IMA like this - ''' and that it should never go behind IMA

It doesnt feel comfortable for me to do this and i would like your opinion please.

[Lutemann]

P should follow through in straight line to the index finger whenever it has time. It should not go behind 'ima'

[blackiel1]

It's a shame you have these music videos mixed up with your maths videos. I only want to watch the music stuff.

[Lutemann]

That's easy, just do a search for murdick classical guitar lessons and only the guitar videos will come up.

[JTSHAWAR]

Thank you

[danyer]

Thank you for sharing. It was a clear lesson!

[gerafarche]

you re cool man, thx

[guitar0707]

the thumb moves slightly away from the guitar after playing and makes a small circle,returning to the string for the next stroke.(this is in tirando stroke,also known as free stroke)on apoyando the thumb rests on an adjacent string after playing.

quoted from:"play classical guitar,by David Braid

Now ,one question;do you know the difference between the English and the French techniques for playing the classical guitar?

[Lutemann]

If you move in a circle you will be employing both flexors and extensors (muscle against muscle tension) at the same time. The straight shot is the most efficient motion, IMO, and should be used wherever possible. As far as English a French techniques, I'm at a loss. I only know American techniques. My videos are mostly Shearer school. Of course Shearer took it from all the best players worldwide.

[Singardia]

Interesting approach. I was also taught by a very good teacher that the thumb should either go right above the string below it if that was the next string to be played or quickly circle back up to the string above it if that is next. I would tend to agree that doing what your doing is good for beginners to get the thumb to make a nice stroke instead of a short wimpy one.

[Lutemann]

Look at David Russell and Manual Barrueco and you will see what I'm talking about. They (and many others) follow through to the index finger whenever possible.

[Lutemann]

Your admonition about resting the forearm too heavily on the lower bout is good, but I don't think swaying is of that great of importance. That's ust a matter of opinion.

[Rexicano]

I would also warn about resting the forearm too heavy upon the guitar and to sit so that you are able to sway a bit and are not stiff. Pretty good for a Quickie Lesson.