LIVING INDIA : 40 years after Louis Malle's documentary films "Phantom India" and "Calcutta", what has become India ? I don't want to make a fiction movie about it but to show how life is there and what it's like, not better or not worse than in Eastern countries but only DIFFERENT.
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Want to add, I am Tamil. I agree with some of Malle's comments. He did say though it is an industry, not an art form. No -Wood seems to worry about creative aspect, they just crank out the films. Anyhow, Padmini was a very beautiful woman, though she was close to 35 in the clip and showing her age.
Right, footage is preserving something from the period; no sense in reacting. Ideas of beauty differ with place and time. And there was atavistic Orientalism still left in west's consciousness.
@whyraj comment on west's unfamiliarity w/ Indian films 40 yrs ago no excuse for Malle, a filmmaker. Can't say abt 60s' French female stars, but except Vivien Leigh and Taylor I find rest ugly, Plucked eyebrows, lacquered hair, foundation garments (Hepburn, etc.) look unwholesome and silly. Makeup from any era even natural looking makeup is unnatural. That said, I cannot watch Tamil movies from that period precisely because they are incoherent (and they have not shed that totally even now.)
I was born in mumbai ,your observation is real and correct. I really like your India videos - since they open me to parts of india I myself have not seen - but know enuf to understand all u mean
Re: comments about appearance - in the first place they are just snarky and juvenile, 2nd place Hema isn't chubby to me, I wonder if he was looking at the clip when he wrote that.
3rd place I don't think he recognizes difference between Tamil movies and Bollywood movies (that word not yet invented ). The women in Bollywood/Hindi
movies
of the 60sare mostly skinnier than the women in the movies of the South. Still true today in a general way - somewhat different film star looks.
Lous Malle was a JERK at age 21, that is for sure.-- when he talked -- but if you watch Phantom India, you might appreciate the intelligence and originality of his filming.
As you may know he went on to make Atlantic City, among other movies, and marry Candace Bergen.
..and My dinner with Andre, Lancombe Lucien,, Au revoir les enfants etc etc ...the man is a genius and sure he gets a lot of stuff wrong about indian culture (as i did when i first visited the country) but forgive him this and rejoice in the fact that he has captured a moment in indias history with his graceful camera work that is recorded nowhere else.
Yes WhyRaj, I like how you said it - he was in over his head as to thinking about what he saw and talking about it -- but more importantly he filmed all these hours and hours of India almost 50 years ago, which was not easy and which is amazing.
I wonder where all the rest of his footage is - you know he must have shot at least twice what he used - and whether someone will ever make it viewable.
the rest of the footage, now theres an interesting thought.
i first saw the massively shortened tv version of this documentary after a stay in india and it jumped out of the screen at me, it was the only thing that came close to my experience of jumping head first into the subcontinent with no preparation back then (when we had three tv channels and india had only one afaik)
i searched for the whole thing for years and was overjoyed when it was eventually released...but the remaining footage?
I want to know with authority do you make the claim that Bharathanatyam is purer and more stylized than Kathakali???!! Your ignorance is nothing short of appalling and you immortalise it by putting up here! Also, Kathakali is far from the "pantomime" that you have compared it to. The acting is highly stylised to the suit make up and the setting of the performance which happens in temples, typically underlit when compared to the lighting of western theatre.
hi my name is rahul..could you please translate in english that comment you made 3 months ago on this video..please dont take this wrong, its just that iam curious on what you said and that i do not understand the language..thank you
chubbunies?what does he want everyone to starve to size 0 skinniness?and cabaret like?what the hell?isnt indian culture normally considered rich in victorian values?these french never trust them
I think because France has been such a "fashion icon" in the world, the French are obsessed with size zero people... and I'm shocked that he called this perfectly lovely Bharatanatyam performance "cabaret-like" too. What the heck is up with that?! (ps: I'm French)
Poor french guy, what does he expect? has he ver seen the indian miniatures? these women have the most beautiful eyes, faces and bodies of the world, like statues of three curves of Visnu, i'm not indian and I felt so bad... what would he feel if I told her french women tend to lose their hair? by the way personally I don't like skeletons (:
The clips at the end of this have been used in a BBC 2 programme on Kalakshetra in 1985. Is this the Louis Malle production series from the late 19060s????
Just saw a review from google search of the full series. It's true when the reviewer critisises Malle for his 'racist' comments & his filming being like a safari docu rather than human beings.
hi...i saw that 90 minutes on bbc and recorded it but alas lost the tape! i'd wanted to see the whole thing ever since. as a frequent traveller to india myself i think malles perspective is close to the innocent backpacker faced with the country for the first time, perhaps his view isnt so understandable form an indian perspective although my brothers partner who is from tamilnadu enjoyed it very much and i have had many indian expats asking me where the whole film can be bought
he's french, what do u expect? they think women who eat only cigarettes and coffee are beautiful! I can't beleive he insulted padmini, mgr and shivaji ganesan! too much!
Wow, this guys idea body-image about people is seriously wrong if he thinks all those stars are "fat", I always thought they looked healthy, soft, and beauiful which is why I love the old school movies. And if that dancer towards the end is "chubby" then I guess I'm giant whale then. SO RIDICULOUS.
Kalakshetra was founded by Rukmini Devi Arundale, not Annie Besant. What the heck is he blabbering?!
I think its quite ignorant to pass comments about a country's culture, when he doesn't know much abt it. Such nasty remarks !
Padmini and ugly just don't go together. He must be nuts. She is one of the greatest indian beauties IMHO. She did not need make-up to look fair. Padmini was naturally fair!
Also Hema looks far from chubby. Anyways, thanks for the vintage post.
(cont.) ...certainly seem out of place in todays world of easy communication , i can go down the road and sit in a cinema that shows indian films or watch clips on youtube, 40 years ago the indian film industry wasnt such an international affair and must have been somewhat unfathomable to europeans.
certainly the indian govt didnt like him or his camera either and complained bitterly about the scenes that portrayed the poverty and begging.i think i should torrent the whole 6 hours of this film
Don't think he meant to say Kalakshetra was founded by Annie Besant. He said Kalakshetra was an offshoot of the Theosophical Society, and THAT was founded by Besant.
at the time this documentary was made(40 years ago)a persons ability to eat well and get fat/well built was so tied up with their status.
so many in india didnt have enough to eat. being overweight was seen as beautiful or desirable.
quite often movie stars from europe would have their images 'fattened up'when their films played india. i remember standing in the street looking at a fat barbara winsor and fat sid james before i entered to see a carry on film :)people still starve/image changes
also i think malle(and this is only my take)is in awe of indias ancient and beautiful culture and sees the influence of western movie making as diluting this tradition.
i'm no student of art but i know the rhythms,dance,facial expression etc that are in indian cinema have their roots in the traditional art forms and religious ritual of india.
this process happens in all cultures,but the fact that indias ancient culture is so alive and part of everyday life must make its dilution petinent
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
It truly is! I'm a huge Hema fan and she's my all time favorite actress, right before Asha Parekh. Trust me, I would notice her in a mile radius.
Thank you so much for uploading a portion of this fantastic documentary. So happy to see footage of Hema in her much younger days and Padmini. Two great ladies of Bollywood and India, overall. Much appreciate it:)
To be beautiful, you must be white? Actually, I'm quite sure that is not what India thinks. India is full of people of different brown skin tones and these film stars have light brown skin, not white. For the answer to why movie stars are "short, fat and thick-featured", see the documentary Helen: Queen of the Nautch Girls. Not all stars are how he described - these stars are gorgeous, by the way.
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Nochmimi 4 months ago
LIVING INDIA : 40 years after Louis Malle's documentary films "Phantom India" and "Calcutta", what has become India ? I don't want to make a fiction movie about it but to show how life is there and what it's like, not better or not worse than in Eastern countries but only DIFFERENT.
VOTE FOR ME, I'll get the chance to win a flight to India.
Please go to VOIR LES PROJETS/CULTUREL/L'INDE vivante
Nochmimi 4 months ago
The version I have and uploaded the Kalakshetra clip from is in English. I can't hear the sound so is this clip NOT in English?
Nick
tripmonk0 5 months ago
Want to add, I am Tamil. I agree with some of Malle's comments. He did say though it is an industry, not an art form. No -Wood seems to worry about creative aspect, they just crank out the films. Anyhow, Padmini was a very beautiful woman, though she was close to 35 in the clip and showing her age.
Right, footage is preserving something from the period; no sense in reacting. Ideas of beauty differ with place and time. And there was atavistic Orientalism still left in west's consciousness.
reva12 11 months ago
@whyraj comment on west's unfamiliarity w/ Indian films 40 yrs ago no excuse for Malle, a filmmaker. Can't say abt 60s' French female stars, but except Vivien Leigh and Taylor I find rest ugly, Plucked eyebrows, lacquered hair, foundation garments (Hepburn, etc.) look unwholesome and silly. Makeup from any era even natural looking makeup is unnatural. That said, I cannot watch Tamil movies from that period precisely because they are incoherent (and they have not shed that totally even now.)
reva12 11 months ago
What is the name of the song at the beginning of the video; who sings it; what movie is it from ??
creativefranz 1 year ago
This video can be titled "An insight into the ignorance of a westerner"
maniacram 1 year ago
little hema malini dancing bharanayam
Nervana02 1 year ago
she isn't hema malini
Nervana02 1 year ago
she is padmini
fonory 1 year ago
wow! that's a precious video! thanx for uploading!
puganufur 2 years ago
is that padmini on the beginning ?? :O
tokyolove9 2 years ago
O my God! hemamalini is not at all gud..its more like semi-classical.. Not bharatanatyam.
monkeymind09 2 years ago
Natanam aadinaal.. is a Varnam (Bharatanatyam) performed by Hema malini.
tharaanup 2 years ago
yes i know that.but she isnt doing it well.
monkeymind09 2 years ago
natanam aadinar is a keerthanam not a varnam.
ardhanariswar 2 years ago
yes indeed , you're absolutely right Guru
tharaanup 2 years ago
@tharaanup Natanam Aadinar is a Keerthanam in Vaasantha raagam
Guyanazown 1 year ago
whyraj
I was born in mumbai ,your observation is real and correct. I really like your India videos - since they open me to parts of india I myself have not seen - but know enuf to understand all u mean
sp0076 2 years ago
uh, at 4:50 hema malini is introduced as the bharatanatyam dancer.
punjabimonkeyz 2 years ago
just great !!! I JUST LOVE THIS VIDEO!!!
THANKS!!!
sri17ramya 2 years ago
Re: comments about appearance - in the first place they are just snarky and juvenile, 2nd place Hema isn't chubby to me, I wonder if he was looking at the clip when he wrote that.
3rd place I don't think he recognizes difference between Tamil movies and Bollywood movies (that word not yet invented ). The women in Bollywood/Hindi
movies
of the 60sare mostly skinnier than the women in the movies of the South. Still true today in a general way - somewhat different film star looks.
NeeliAankhen 3 years ago 2
It's Hema Malini, not Vijayanthimala.
Lous Malle was a JERK at age 21, that is for sure.-- when he talked -- but if you watch Phantom India, you might appreciate the intelligence and originality of his filming.
As you may know he went on to make Atlantic City, among other movies, and marry Candace Bergen.
NeeliAankhen 3 years ago
..and My dinner with Andre, Lancombe Lucien,, Au revoir les enfants etc etc ...the man is a genius and sure he gets a lot of stuff wrong about indian culture (as i did when i first visited the country) but forgive him this and rejoice in the fact that he has captured a moment in indias history with his graceful camera work that is recorded nowhere else.
whyraj 3 years ago
Yes WhyRaj, I like how you said it - he was in over his head as to thinking about what he saw and talking about it -- but more importantly he filmed all these hours and hours of India almost 50 years ago, which was not easy and which is amazing.
I wonder where all the rest of his footage is - you know he must have shot at least twice what he used - and whether someone will ever make it viewable.
NeeliAankhen 3 years ago
the rest of the footage, now theres an interesting thought.
i first saw the massively shortened tv version of this documentary after a stay in india and it jumped out of the screen at me, it was the only thing that came close to my experience of jumping head first into the subcontinent with no preparation back then (when we had three tv channels and india had only one afaik)
i searched for the whole thing for years and was overjoyed when it was eventually released...but the remaining footage?
whyraj 3 years ago
@NeeliAankhen it is padmini
pushparao46 5 months ago
This docu is so contrived and what an essentialist description of art forms of south India!!
maejcb 3 years ago
I want to know with authority do you make the claim that Bharathanatyam is purer and more stylized than Kathakali???!! Your ignorance is nothing short of appalling and you immortalise it by putting up here! Also, Kathakali is far from the "pantomime" that you have compared it to. The acting is highly stylised to the suit make up and the setting of the performance which happens in temples, typically underlit when compared to the lighting of western theatre.
maejcb 3 years ago
Heel vet Steven! Absoluut de vetste vulva ;) Ook grappig om foto's van mezelf terug te zien.
5*
QUe guapo!!
BBCaudiobooks 3 years ago 18
hi my name is rahul..could you please translate in english that comment you made 3 months ago on this video..please dont take this wrong, its just that iam curious on what you said and that i do not understand the language..thank you
rahulvinal 3 years ago
Hi Rahul. The comment is written in dutch, but it doesn't refer to this video. It is just a stupid obscene remark. It is spam.
9Lakshmi2 3 years ago
dutch? double dutch more like
whyraj 3 years ago
Bharatnatyam la danse de femmes uniquement?!!!
et puis plus stylisée et pure que Kathakali?!!!
Qui c'est qui a créé ce documentaire? c'est vraiment fou et préjudiciable.
tubeur000 3 years ago
chubbunies?what does he want everyone to starve to size 0 skinniness?and cabaret like?what the hell?isnt indian culture normally considered rich in victorian values?these french never trust them
nageno 3 years ago
I think because France has been such a "fashion icon" in the world, the French are obsessed with size zero people... and I'm shocked that he called this perfectly lovely Bharatanatyam performance "cabaret-like" too. What the heck is up with that?! (ps: I'm French)
Naisarue 3 years ago 6
Wow...what an ignorant french fool..
giaALmaktoum 3 years ago 7
Poor french guy, what does he expect? has he ver seen the indian miniatures? these women have the most beautiful eyes, faces and bodies of the world, like statues of three curves of Visnu, i'm not indian and I felt so bad... what would he feel if I told her french women tend to lose their hair? by the way personally I don't like skeletons (:
JPandCo 3 years ago 4
The clips at the end of this have been used in a BBC 2 programme on Kalakshetra in 1985. Is this the Louis Malle production series from the late 19060s????
Nick
tripmonk0 3 years ago
nick this is straight from the original 60's doc ... its 6 hours long and now available from criterion with english subs.
whyraj 3 years ago
Thanks for the info. Quite a few years ago we had a 90 min cut down version on Brit TV so I recognise a bit.
THIS is where the Kalakshetra bits are from & not a BBC2 docu in 85. My mistake.
I always seem to get Padmini & Vyjananthimala mixed up.
Nick
tripmonk0 3 years ago
Just saw a review from google search of the full series. It's true when the reviewer critisises Malle for his 'racist' comments & his filming being like a safari docu rather than human beings.
Nick
tripmonk0 3 years ago
hi...i saw that 90 minutes on bbc and recorded it but alas lost the tape! i'd wanted to see the whole thing ever since. as a frequent traveller to india myself i think malles perspective is close to the innocent backpacker faced with the country for the first time, perhaps his view isnt so understandable form an indian perspective although my brothers partner who is from tamilnadu enjoyed it very much and i have had many indian expats asking me where the whole film can be bought
whyraj 3 years ago
I still have my copy of the 90 min version but on an old tape. I put it on to DVD a few years back as I was sure I'd never see the whole series.
Nick
tripmonk0 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
This is Vyjayanthimala from Tamil film, I think, Thillana Mohanambal with Shivaji Ganeshan.
Nick
tripmonk0 3 years ago
These girls might be a little chubby in a modern eye, but their figures suit their dances better.
demitri1011 3 years ago
a pity he didn't show any footwork!
sasa110 3 years ago
he's french, what do u expect? they think women who eat only cigarettes and coffee are beautiful! I can't beleive he insulted padmini, mgr and shivaji ganesan! too much!
sasa110 3 years ago
the film is narrated by the maker of the film (louis malle ) in french.
whyraj 3 years ago
which language is the commentary? one is tamail. what is another?
hema is all time favorite.
bavakichitti 3 years ago
this movie came out during the 60's..
prad17 3 years ago
Wow, this guys idea body-image about people is seriously wrong if he thinks all those stars are "fat", I always thought they looked healthy, soft, and beauiful which is why I love the old school movies. And if that dancer towards the end is "chubby" then I guess I'm giant whale then. SO RIDICULOUS.
OSweetLeafx 4 years ago 3
yup its hema malini only
dhanu143 4 years ago
From one of Padmini's interview:
"Make-up was completely different in colour. In black and white, we would apply dark make-up with shades but in colour, it was pinkish and plain."
Can't blame them, because that was the vogue back then.
rinkster 4 years ago 4
Rinkster... u are correct kalakshetra founded(Athai) Rukmini devi Arundel on 1936, not Annie Besant...
dhanu143 4 years ago
do you know the name of the song at 5:02?
sancharram 3 years ago
Natanam Adinar, a keerthanam on Nataraja (Shiva).
ardhanariswar 3 years ago
thats keerthanam?
didn't know that.
this whole time i thought it was padam.
do you know what style it is?
i swear to god the music then is way better then now
sancharram 3 years ago
style? The music is Carnatic, which is South Indian Classical. The harmonium is unconventional though, usually used in North Indian Classical.
ardhanariswar 3 years ago
i meant like kalakshreta? or tanjore?
sancharram 3 years ago
A few things...
Kalakshetra was founded by Rukmini Devi Arundale, not Annie Besant. What the heck is he blabbering?!
I think its quite ignorant to pass comments about a country's culture, when he doesn't know much abt it. Such nasty remarks !
Padmini and ugly just don't go together. He must be nuts. She is one of the greatest indian beauties IMHO. She did not need make-up to look fair. Padmini was naturally fair!
Also Hema looks far from chubby. Anyways, thanks for the vintage post.
rinkster 4 years ago 14
youre quite right rinkster, malles got his theosophists muddled hasnt he!
perhaps his comments are inappropriate , they
whyraj 4 years ago
(cont.) ...certainly seem out of place in todays world of easy communication , i can go down the road and sit in a cinema that shows indian films or watch clips on youtube, 40 years ago the indian film industry wasnt such an international affair and must have been somewhat unfathomable to europeans.
certainly the indian govt didnt like him or his camera either and complained bitterly about the scenes that portrayed the poverty and begging.i think i should torrent the whole 6 hours of this film
whyraj 4 years ago
Pls i think he don't abt indian culture..ofcurse pappi aunt was really great... so just leav it
dhanu143 4 years ago
Don't think he meant to say Kalakshetra was founded by Annie Besant. He said Kalakshetra was an offshoot of the Theosophical Society, and THAT was founded by Besant.
umi414 4 years ago
hey its the movie "mohanambal's thillana" in it, with padmini no?
beautesdebollywood33 4 years ago
thats what i was thinking
sancharram 4 years ago
but i dont understand why they speak so badly about indian cinematography in this movie...and the dancer wasnt fat!!!!
beautesdebollywood33 4 years ago 2
i know i think there used to thin people where they come from
sancharram 4 years ago
at the time this documentary was made(40 years ago)a persons ability to eat well and get fat/well built was so tied up with their status.
so many in india didnt have enough to eat. being overweight was seen as beautiful or desirable.
quite often movie stars from europe would have their images 'fattened up'when their films played india. i remember standing in the street looking at a fat barbara winsor and fat sid james before i entered to see a carry on film :)people still starve/image changes
whyraj 4 years ago
also i think malle(and this is only my take)is in awe of indias ancient and beautiful culture and sees the influence of western movie making as diluting this tradition.
i'm no student of art but i know the rhythms,dance,facial expression etc that are in indian cinema have their roots in the traditional art forms and religious ritual of india.
this process happens in all cultures,but the fact that indias ancient culture is so alive and part of everyday life must make its dilution petinent
whyraj 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
It truly is! I'm a huge Hema fan and she's my all time favorite actress, right before Asha Parekh. Trust me, I would notice her in a mile radius.
Thank you so much for uploading a portion of this fantastic documentary. So happy to see footage of Hema in her much younger days and Padmini. Two great ladies of Bollywood and India, overall. Much appreciate it:)
UsherRed 4 years ago
To be beautiful, you must be white? Actually, I'm quite sure that is not what India thinks. India is full of people of different brown skin tones and these film stars have light brown skin, not white. For the answer to why movie stars are "short, fat and thick-featured", see the documentary Helen: Queen of the Nautch Girls. Not all stars are how he described - these stars are gorgeous, by the way.
EliteXtasy 4 years ago 2
cuz i think i see padmini
sancharram 4 years ago
I knew Hema Malini was in it, but never knew that Padmini was in it too! Great!
EliteXtasy 4 years ago 2
thats hema? wow cool thanks
sancharram 4 years ago