DON`T COME TO BILIN AGAIN 15-3-2010 By Haitham Al Katib

[esmeraldakrzeminski]

fantastic report .. congrats =)

[aklisny]

yes this is a state at work preventing renewed outbreak of arab anarchy...

[Krys1304]

@beanersss 1) quote: "Also explain wht Egypt is also blockading Gaza?". For internal political reasons that are legal. Egypt is not an occupying power, therefore the obligations that Israel is under don't apply.

2) quote: "The reality of this matter is that the Palestinains will and should suffer until they stop their missile attacks on Israel." So, you advocate collective punishment of civilians totally uninvolved in any military act. You have just rationalised Hamas rocket attacks.

[Krys1304]

@beanersss - 1) A political body doesn't need to be a state to negotiate, as has been proven many times in international law. 2) The UK government is in violation of int'l law regarding torture and civilian deaths, as well as the provision of military assistance to others engaging in the same. 3) You have not answered Bixby's statement concerning Israeli obligations under int'l law as an occupying power. What is your position on this, and on what legal basis?

[evalovi]

I remember the scene , it was in the dark russian occupation in East Europe, my father and others kept in night. for several month by the occupants

[tlvgtwld2009]

why nobody talked about human rights in Europe 1939-45, in Vietnam, in Iraq, in Afganistan, in Somalia, in Yogosavia, in Georgia?... god blesse IDF

[bixby2000]

You are right. If only people had reacted ! Some did, proving that only hypocrites can pretend they didn't know. I think it's unforgivable. I think it's essential to learn from past tragedies. That's why I'm so surprised some people seem blind, again, in front of this tragedy, which is going on since 62 years now. Strange. About Vietnam, there was initiative like Russel Tribunal, that now exist for Palestine. Yes, it's good to open ones eyes

[bixby2000]

nisim': Bibi is making fun of everybody, insulting the intelligence of the whole world, and the basic feelings of any Palestinian or any real peace lover (some of the Israelis, banned from the place by Bibi's choice incl.) To say "I want a 2 state solution" while breaking every hope for this ON THE GROUND is cynical. It's just to gain time. Look at a Map ! Time means more soil stolen from Palestinans, more illegal settlements.

And more arrests, deaths of people crying against this injustice.

[nisimgarame123]

@bixby2000 of course Bibi want to gain time. that's because he cant reach an agreement with Hamas.

[bixby2000]

Oooh, poor sweeties... so adorable Bibi, Riris ... Can you tell me what you mean by reaching an agreement ?

About what ?

[nisimgarame123]

@bixby2000 peace agreement.

you want Hamas to keep firing on Israeli towns?

[bixby2000]

Nisim,Of course, I dream that the Israeli Occuyping Force stops its daily provocations,agressions, destructions and BlockadeS.

When One side gives no other option than the way to die, playing the part of the wronged is spiteful.

Even living Gandhis are tortured, encaged and killed, like Bassem of Bilin !

Bilin, the village closed like a War Zone is a gem of an idea of pacific, creative struggle. Look what they do to them !

Why ?

[beanersss]

@bixby2000 The palestinains voted for Hamas who call for the destructi0on of Israel and the death of All Jews. They voted for conflict and cannot complain now they have it.

[bixby2000]

@beanersss Israelis voted for Likud, and its Charter aims at an Eretz Israel from sea to Jordan at least which means clearly no more Palestine and Palestinians. They voted for extremists like Liberman's party or Shass, and this 3 headed monster is destroying homes not only in East Jerusalem, West Bank but even near Tel-Aviv.

So I wouldn't consider the situation from this angle.The more so as Palestinians's votes are far more conciliant on a global scale.

[beanersss]

@bixby2000 They voted for Likud because Palestinians elected Hamas. The palestinians wanted war and now have it so there is no sue crying.

[bixby2000]

@beanersss Look at a map. The agressive side who needs always more, which means to destroy (olive trees, homes, lifes) deport people, violate every international law : to put ones population on a occupied country is forbidden (to prevent ...deportation and what's happening), the agressive side in permanent WAR is really clear. I'm sorry to tell you it's Israel's policy that is a problem

[beanersss]

@bixby2000 Look at the map? When was there ever a Palestinaian state?

[beanersss]

@beanersss If my ideas are outdated then why do all the advanced democracies proscribe hamas as a terrorist organization? Nothing will change for the palestinains until they get rid of Hamas. Your crying will come to nothing.

[bixby2000]

@beanersss I'm a mother, too, and used to kids asking always the same questions. No problem. Look, I'll try in a more simple way : you're repeating like a sort of broken vinyle your propaganda text learned by heart, and even don't try to understand what I answer you. Like saying : the sky is blue, bluuue. Yeah and what ? I won't argue about your way to see the sky. I tell you the horizon of West Bank villages should be green and not grey.

[beanersss]

@bixby2000 It is not propaganda to say that the Palestinians voted for Hamas who have fired missiles into Israel ever since Israel left Gaza. That is a fact. It is not propaganda to say that Hamas seeks the destruction of Israel and the murder of all Jews thats a fact! It is for these reasons that all of the democratic world proscribes Hamas as a terrorist organization. Its not Israel's fault that Palestinians voted for Hamas that was your choice! Now you must live with it.

[bixby2000]

@beanersss Look at a map, see what Occupation, Colonisation, means. Google "PALESTINE MAP". From 6% soil belonging to Jews (in 1946) which lived in harmony with the 10% Christians and the rest, Muslims, Israel was created on 55% given, out of the blue, to create a sort of "outpost"I suppose for these erm... "advanced democracies".Rapidly, Israel was sitting on 78%. Now this colonialist State is occupying more than 50% of the remaining 22%.

[beanersss]

@bixby2000 The Arabs were offered a State in 1948 and rejected it instead chosing to lose 5 wars to Israel. You live by your decisions in life it is no use crying once you choose to fight and lose! If the Arabs had agreed peace in 1948 you would have a state instead you ahve nothing. The UN mandate gave a Jewish state to majority Jewish areas and an Arab state to the majority Arab areas. You chose to fight and have no Jewish state and lost.

[beanersss]

@beanersss If Palestinains really want a state and peace then they will only do it by getting rid of Hamas. Until you do the world wont back you. It doesnt matter how much you sit here and argue about who owns what it wont change anything. In 1946, 1948 1967 there was no Palestinain state. There was only Egypt, Jordan, and the British empire and before them the Turkish Empire. if you get rid of Hamas then Israel will get rid of Likud thats how it works.

[bixby2000]

@beanersss "The Arabs were offered a State in 1948" Twisted logic.Again... Nothing else in the Propanda's booklet distributed ?They had no reason to accept this. Are you're so conscious of the shame of what's happening, and what Israel is doing now, that you try to speak about the past ? Is this need to hide behind the armed branch of this or that, a way to hide the shame of killing children, pacifists, unarmed citizens, simple demonstrators...in Bilin or Gaza.

[beanersss]

@bixby2000 Try convincing the advanced democracies of this world its propaganda you keep screaming propaganda and supporting Hamas and Israel will continue destroying you.

[beanersss]

@bixby2000 Jordan is 75% Palestinian go and live there.

[bixby2000]

@beanersss Palestinians do exist as much as the olivetrees planted by their ancestors exist... existed... Israel's policy is destroying both. It's not only totally unhuman and sad. It's illegal too. Stop with this sort of twisted logic. It's the agressions, provocations, colonisation that must stop. Why must a woman married to an Israeli, give birth nearly in the street, some weeks ago because she dared saying hello to her family in WB ?

[beanersss]

@bixby2000 dont blame me the palestinains chose Hamas. That is why Palestinians are paying the price. Why must Israelis in sderot be bombarded daily by Hamas rockets? Why must Israeli women in southern Israel be scared their kids will be killed? Why must they hide every tiem they hear an airraid siren? Because the Palestinains voted for Hamas thats why! I repeat you vote for war and you get war its that simple!

[bixby2000]

@beanersss I couldn't decently "blame you". I don't know you.According to a beautiful line I read in an israeli newspaper (I respect Haartez more than any european or american newspaper) the constructions, and new homes, and nice gardens are blooming in Najd, oups, sorry, since its ethnic cleansing, it's called Sderot...

It's funny you know, the double standards of this world. Imagine a "non adavanced democracy" erasing old tiles. Here it's humans that disappear. In silence.

[beanersss]

@bixby2000 over 6000 missiles rockets and mortars have been fired at southern Israel since Israel left Gaza in 2005. Israel will continue to punish the Palestinains until it stops. I have nothing more to say.

[bixby2000]

@beanersss : "Israel will continue to punish the Palestinians" ... Seems you never read the Fourth Geneva Convention which is the Core of Humanitarian Law and is exactly meant for cases like this : when the Occupying Force is acting like a spoilt brat having tantrums. ART 33 : No protected person may be punished for an offence he or she has not personally committed.

It's to prevent collective punishments. Terrorism and intimidation by an Occupying Force upon simple civilians is bAd.

[beanersss]

@bixby2000 lol you have Hamas in govt? A group which fires rockets deliberately at civilians from civilian locations and you talk about internatioanl law. Hamas has comitted proven war crimes which is why every democracy proscribes it as a terrorist organization. You cannot hide behind any law when hamas are your government!.

[beanersss]

@beanersss You use law where it suits you and that wont work! I repeat, So long as Hamas is in power the Palestinains will suffer and no one will do a damn thing to help you. This is the reality. Terrorists are not protected by any convention because they dont abide by any laws!

[beanersss]

@beanersss If you vote for a group like Hamas its a vote for war. If the Palestinains want peace then you need another govt.

[Krys1304]

@beanersss You claim the Palestinians have no right to protest the occupation of their land because they voted for Hamas. And the UK voted for Labour, whilst they engaged in war crimes and terrorism in Iraq and Afghanistan, so perhaps you should "stop hiding behind the law" as well when your rights are violated. Also, how do you know Haitham voted for Hamas? If he didn't, are you going to tar him with the same brush anyway? I guess so. I mean, ALL of those goddam ragheads are terrorists, right?

[beanersss]

@Krys1304 Labour have engaged in no war crimes. It never ceases to amaze me that the left keep making such evidence but there is no conviction and only accusations. Hamas is a proscribed terrorist organization in the laws of every adcanced democracy int he world. its charter calls for the murder of every Jew and its firing missiles at Israel.

[beanersss]

@Krys1304 Precisely when has there ever been a Palestinain state. The reality is they dont own anything.

[beanersss]

@bixby2000 So long as Hamas are firing missiles at Israel the Palestinains will pay the price and rightly so. when they stop Israel will stop bombing them.

[bixby2000]

@beanersss you make 2 big errors in your 1st sentence. 1. Israel bombs and kill Palestinians whatever they do, and this is proven daily when Israel arrest and torture, harm or kill, simple Pacifists, journalists, kids. 2. "Rightly" ? Everybody has Rights and Duties, in this World. But Israel as an occupying and colonising Force, has some specific duties toward Palestinians, meant to prevent abuse of power and collective punishment. The people of West Bank fight against an illegal presence.

[bixby2000]

@beanersss But the greatest error is Number 3 : your order of action / reaction. The attackers, in this story, are not Palestinians, but Israel, as a State which is never satisfied of what it has, and advances like a BLOB. It's Israel which does never stop ! All Palestinians ask is that Israel stops violating every International Resolutions and Humanitarian Law, stops the blockade of Gaza which provokes only desperation and leads to more desparate acts, and stops advancing, attacking ...

[bixby2000]

@beanersss last but not least : All Palestinians ask for years, decades, now, is that Israel STOPs destroying children, parents, people, olivetrees, houses, lifes, hopes, STOPs the colonisation (which is a violation in itself of the Laws of Humanity ... you know, these laws meant to prevent horrors, like ethnic cleaning, transfers, all this)

Israel must STOP. Palestinians do an enormous effort, they are just beautiful, you know it, we know it. Israel must stop attacking.

[beanersss]

@bixby2000 There is no Palestine there is Gaza, Jordan, and The west bank. Hamas is in control of Gaza and so long as its firing missile3s into Israel the people there will suffer. Israel doenst occupy Gaza and hasnt since 2005. Lol Palestinians are beautiful hahahhaa so why do none of the Arab states let Palestinains have citizenship rights in tehir countries? Explain that! Also explain wht Egypt is also blockading Gaza?

[beanersss]

@bixby2000 Yes Hamas is beautiful which is why every adcanced democracy in the world has outlawed it as a terrorist organization.

[beanersss]

@beanersss The reality of this matter is that the Palestinains will and should suffer until they stop their missile attacks on Israel. It doesnt matter what you say they will continue to be punished until they do!

[bixby2000]

@beanersss I envy you. Really. Must be cool, not to care really about the discussion, and just copy-paste some clichés, without reading the answers, trying to understand the conversation. This service is not part of the hasbara job ? Well, let's say that in the region, I don't see greater terrorist than Israel, and it's secret services,organising bombings everywhere, attacking humanitarian ships. And you want to hide behind Hamas so short you are with your own line of defense ? pleeeeze...

[beanersss]

@bixby2000 The claim that there has never been a palestinian state is a fact not a cliche, the claim that Hamas is a proscribed terrorist organization in every european country is a fact not a cliche. Israel had the right to search the ship and then the inhabitants of it began atytacking the commandoes wiht iron bars and got killed. The moral of the story is that if your sailing a ship to islamic terrorists and get searched dont attack the soldiers!

[bixby2000]

@beanersss The fact something existed or not is not relevant. People DO exist.

That's all. Israel didn't exist either. This logic is really a bit crazy. About the ship, Israel was invited to search the ship but chose to attack people in the night. They began shooting while descending from the helicopters provoking a real fright upon people unarmed from 40 nations, a Pope was there, a german professor, all sort of people.

[bixby2000]

@beanersss Last but not least about the ship : how can you play this string ? A commando of a powerful army, generally organising havoc here and there, ATTACKED a ship in international waters as if the Mediterranean sea wasan israeli Lake. But If there was no Blockade this ship would not have existed ... so the moral of the moral is that Israel must lift TOTALLY this ILLEGAL siege, and so the ships or trucks will make Palestinians happy and life will be cool.

[beanersss]

@bixby2000 It is irrelevant that it was in international waters. It was bound for Gaza which is governed by an internationally recognized terrorist organization which has fired over 6000 rockets at Israel since 2005. 5 of the 6 ships were searched and their cargo was then peacefully transferred to gaza. the inhabitants of the sixth decided to attack whe commandoes with iron bars and paid the price.

[beanersss]

@bixby2000 The embargo is justified. Hamas can stop it tomorrow by stopping firing rockets at Israel. Until such time the seige will continue. What kind of a retard tries to argue that a sovereign state should allow another to fire rockets at it and then just carry on as normal and not expect they will check its shipments for weapons. The fact is that the aid on the boats has been transferred to Israel anyway. Personally i would have done.

[beanersss]

@bixby2000 Life will be cool? Are you some kind of magic muschroom quaffing hippie? Hamas were elected ona mandate that calls for the murder of every jew and the destruciton of Israel and it has fired over 6000 rockets at Israel since 2005 and you wonder why Israel has a blockade? Youa re out of your mind lol. If it was any other coountry including the UK the Palestinains would be paying a much heavier price.

[beanersss]

@bixby2000 during ww2 Nazi germany sent flying bombs to London and we responded by bombing Dresden with incendiary bombs and killing over 200,000 in a few nights~!

[beanersss]

@bixby2000 Actually Israel is the only democracy int eh middle east with an independent judiciary and every advanced democracy has reasonably good relations with it. Hamas is proscribed as a terrorrist organization by every advanced democracy in the world. These are not cliches theya re facts! Try stating some of you expect to be taken seriously!

[bixby2000]

@beanersss Could I ask you not to insult the word democracy which is enough in bad shape. If it was meant to be funny, to say it had an independance judiciary, it doesn't make me laugh. It's to independant to my gusto. Either Israel is a recognized State and accepts the International Law or must be but to some corner. I told you, don't make me play this game, Australia and Britain don't recognize hamas to be a terrorist, and what ? For me everybody who touches an innocent is a terrorist....

[beanersss]

@bixby2000 Israel is a democracy as it has a free press, free elections, equal rights for all citizens of Israel. Im not going to waste time with you unless you answer with substantive intelligently thought out arguments. "Yes it is" "no it isnt" is not the kind of level i can bother wasting my time to debate at. Hamas is proscribed terrorist organization in the laws of every advanced democracy in the world and every advanced democracy in the world has reasonable relations with Israel.

[bixby2000]

@beanersss So, In this sense, Israel is a Supra-Terrorist. And what ?

This is not the problem

Likud who wants an Eretz Israel, from Sea to Jordan, and doesn't recognize Palestine or Avig.Lieberman, or else are terribly dangerous.

Hitler came to power "by democracy" in 1933

Shit happens. So... well, I don't overestimate democracy, I don't underestimate people ready to talk, like Hamas, never, and I'm just an outsider, in this, so all I can do, is try to hear to beautiful people both sides.

[GWC1975]

@bixby2000

Bixby, you're right about one thing: you are an outsider. You know next to nothing about this whole conflict.

[beanersss]

@bixby2000 Arabs exist but Palestine never did. it was Egypt and Jordan, prior to that the British empire, and prior to that the Ottoman Empire. There was no Palestine.

[bixby2000]

@beanersss Prior to all this, people in this place used oliveoil. Pots which contained this precious liquid, dating 6000 BC were found here. So please don't tire me with old stories. At a certain moment, Israel was meant to be created in Uganda, so pleeease... stop this usual thread.

I'm speaking about 2010. I'm speaking about the fact that whatever Palestinians or Israelis want to vote, I have a duty, ME, as a Citizen, to act in the name of simple Justice, Truth, and Respect for HUmanity.

[beanersss]

@bixby2000 in 2010 Israel exists and Palestine doesnt and never has. Im glad you mention 2010.

[bixby2000]

@beanersss For every problem, one must look at 2 sides, at least. So what about the unheard votes and voices ? Places like Bilin, Nilin and else where Israelis and Palestinians try to be heard is a source of inspiration.

But last but not least : There is an Occupying Force (Israel) and People living under this control. One side colonize, blockades, attacks, (is source of the conflict) while the other try to survive this oc-colonisation.

[beanersss]

@bixby2000 Why is the palestinain government, Hamas, proscribed as a terrorist organization in every advanced democracy in the world?

[bixby2000]

@beanersss The moment you put pressure upon simple civilians, children, innocent souls, making it clear you will kill them whenever the moment or place, it's intimidation and terrorism. That's why I'm so shocked so-called "advanced democracies" don't act in front of Israel's policy which is pure terrorism and intimidation, disproportion and collective punishment. But, of course, I know, the main problem is the injustice of all this : some deathes count and others don't.

[beanersss]

@bixby2000 that is exactly what hamas does. Advanced democracies support Israel because it is the only democracy in the region with an independent judiciary and Hamas is an islamic terrorist organization. Hamas call for the murder of all Jews and the destruction of Israel. Thge palestinian people voted for them as Germans voted for hitler. Their mistake and they will pay for it.

[bixby2000]

@beanersss I think that you should keep yourself informed of the situation. Your theory is outdated

[beanersss]

@bixby2000 Outdated? the hamas charter calls for the destruction of Israel and the murder of all Jews. This is why the advanced democracies proscribe Hamas as a terrorist organization. Until Islamic terrorism is outdate then there wont be anyt state for the Palestinains and its that simple. Either the Palestinains put an end to Hamas or they will continue to suffer.

[bixby2000]

@beanersss Palestinians are under a terrible pressure, wherever they are. They have tried everything. But Israel Occupying Force is giving one message only : whatever you do, and even if you are a beautiful smiling pacific man trying to talk to israeli soldiers, like Bassem Abu Rahme you may be killed. So I would love International Community to do what is right and stop Israel's policy of attacks and provocations... in the name of these beautiful voices here and there.

[beanersss]

@bixby2000 Israel does not occupy Gaza ans hasnt since 2005. gazans then voted for hamas which calls for the destruction of israekl and the murder of all jews. Hamas has fired thouszands of rockets and Israel and the palestinains have paid the price. When the palestinains learn hopw not to be terrorists they will get some support.

[anonymat21]

酷い話だ！これは明らかな人権侵害です！

It is terrible!

This is a clear violation of human rights!

[Blighty212]

Why bother...? Your comment won't be posted unless it licks Israeli Ass...

[Blighty212]

Funny..out of three comments...ONLY THIS ONE...gets posted. The others...namely calling them Z--nist Tw-ts...didn't make it...I wonder why...?

[Blighty212]

Zionist assholes...

[Blighty212]

Assholes...

[nisimgarame123]

the international activists are taking advantage of the IDF humaneness.

i would like to see them doing the same in Tibet/Chechnya. or protesting in gaza against Hamas rocket lunchers. Hamas would chop their heads off.

[nisimgarame123]

the IDF is very careful with the "international activists".

another army would open fire on them/arrest them for some years, on the first place.

[batlady2]

@nisimgarame123 uh huh right. Just ask the parents of Rachel Corrie how "careful" the (IOF), Israeli OCCUPATION forces, are with international activists. The world is never going to have any peace as long as israel exists. The day it was created was the day the world ended.

[nisimgarame123]

@batlady2 the Rachel Corrie incident happend in 2003. if this is your best example, i can be sure that i'm right.

[jes166]

thats terrible...,

I wish~ Peace For All :):)

Its all of 'our' land / we are all ONE / get used to it and that will be the weapon of mass eruption into Enlightenment =)

Peace to All

[bixby2000]

.... They try to cut the most beautiful flower of the world, Palestinians and Israelis, walking, hand in hand, together, in Bilin and Nilin.

How sad

[strongbowist]

I agree but that's Satan for you. He believes in hatred, death and destruction not life, beauty, and love. His Jewish descendants are carrying out his work.

[bwanjep9]

Time to call for a mass demo next Friday with Israeli and international presence. This will really make headlines and cause waves in the international community when Israelis get arrested by the hundreds, and internationals get deported by the hundreds for protesting peacefully against the illegal Israeli Apartheid wall and settlements.

Let's go for it! This is the publicity we need!

[shadifadda]

I advise you to respect the Occupiers' Law, and stop organizing the Anti-Apartheid protests on Friday. Start doing the weekly protest on Thursday or Saturday...

[bwanjep9]

@shadifadda: You are missing the point!

[DidiRemez]

Well this means I'm coming to Bilin on Friday.

[bixby2000]

This occupying - ups, I mean colonialist - force is clearly abusive.

Abusive use of force is a war crime, too. And here we clearly have an army that use undue pressure towards a village known internationaly for its pacific ways.

I wonder if they were happy to terrorize these families, sleeping above the noise of this motors turning SS like in night

[nisimgarame123]

@bixby2000 the SS would killed them all

[bixby2000]

Nisim, I quote myself :"SS like" yes. Bei Nacht und Nebel ...

Palestinians are confronted to a terrible logic of colonisation, and the "Vital Space" here, is called Eretz Israel. From Sea to Jordan, according to Likud's charter. And so I don't know if the idea is to poison them all with genotoxic material, or "simply" let them survive cut from the world, like encaged animals in the sort of islands or bantustans created for them.

[nisimgarame123]

the palestinians also talk about taking the land from the sea to Jorden and trow the jews to the sea.

however, the likud party leader, Netanyahu, said he want a two state solution.