StarCraft 2 - SC632 - Cloud (T) vs Socke (P) on Shattered Temple

[green1bdg]

@19WAYNE91

Zomg i wouldn't call it a rush, just a well timed push off of 4 gateways after a 3 gate expand. The reason it was superstrong is because Socke was chronoboosting all of his warpgates very well while managing well his economy Apart from that little did Cloud know that it was coming, as it seems to me that he skimped on defence, which is the risky thing to do while you're the one 'rushing' for the economy.

[werxx]

@19WAYNE91 That wasn't a 4 gate. Wrong place to whine about it.

[bladecrusher01]

6:20 he makes the slow down shells. after 6:30 he canceled it. Than after that he researches it again. Fail? I think so yes. Why he did that?

[JohnnyDarko01]

LOL @ ppl complaing about balance. terran can just make mass marauder early on and steam roll any gateway units of equal or slightly great numbers.

[lukertin]

@JohnnyDarko01 go back to ur bronze league where every unit is op

[werxx]

@JohnnyDarko01 Must be nice living in the beta pre conc shell nerf, if I had a time machine, I'd go with terran full time and join you.

[JohnnyDarko01]

@werxx has nothing to do with conc shell. Marauders win period. Stim and conc shell are icing on the cake

[treebush]

anyone that says things are op usually lose to it

[standardcombo]

Two words for you Cloud: Siege Tanks

[MegaDUMBNAME]

I think viking range should be reduced by 1, just my opinion :|

[GraveUypo]

@MegaDUMBNAME only if colossus get the same nerf.

[WinninGuy]

Too many noobies playing starcraft. Hmm... if somethign is so OP, then why don't you just use that race and own?

[AznLoserWin]

@WinninGuy yea i'm a toss player and i usually lose to my friend

i try out terran and then i step all over him

btw - we're diamond

[Didgaraya]

Glad not all players play SC2 that way. Dull battle, to say the least.

[Chaos41571]

yes, FF is essential or else protoss would be fucked in the early game by roaches and marauders

[hhammond92]

I like to think of his name as MY MC louD

[FlashIeme]

Heads up here on how to pronounce 'Socke' =) translate. google .com/#de|de|socke

Remove the spaces and listen to it.. the Z in the beginning is good but the E in the end isn't =) #rawr

[Rocketman845]

Warp in a command center? Oh Crota how we love you. ^^

[TheAbridgeNetwork]

ahhhhh got to love the good old op talk op this op  that. but what about underpowered stuff they need love too

[dinodude2004]

My god... IDIOTS

Are you all really so hopelessly self-entitled to think that you can single handedly fix a balance issue with a game thats been made by professionals? LEARN TO PLAY THE GAME

I constantly hear talk of Terran OP or Force-fields OP and you know what? There's a reason why there are so many tournaments and pros that dedicate their life to this game. Give professionals the respect they deserve, and just because you lose to a certain build doesnt make the game conspiring against u.

[traislow]

protoss gets very op around 9 minute.... -.- they totally choose f they wanna win or lose

[brennanww]

STARCRAFT 2 IS OP

[MrEpic100]

to stop a 3 rax push get 1 or 2 cannons to block your chocke with ff. Simple

[agostinho1234]

thumbs up for a guy who is defending the game is balanced. That means many people feels the match up was an evidence of imbalance. So, it's obvious that terran won (if my logic is true, and yes i write before watch the whole video)

LoL

[Gdog120]

To all low level terrans botching about toss I got one question

Umad?

F.Y.I I'm high level silver close to getting to gold

[Delpifo]

Forcefields: OP Storm: OP Thermal lance upgrade: OP.

[MwFreezd]

@Delpifo in that case ghosts: OP medivacs: OP stim pack: OP

[YodSamechLamed]

@MwFreezd yes, and?

I think that sounds around right.

[xXTheWhiteSharkXx]

I fucking love seeing Protoss cleaning up MM

[sc2ai]

Pro-toss is Pro. Socke fighting.

[n1oneMan]

Guys, stop Trash talking about balancing.

Go into the game and get yourself into Silver league before you are trying to talk about the game :D

[ucemujeproblem]

@n1oneMan hahah, nicely said :D

[Repanocho]

@n1oneMan then, you're saying that idra's still in bronze? o.O

[romanoswestwood]

@Repanocho Stop fucking argueing with idra. Idra always plays the same shit, if you scout him you know what he will play. He's too predictable, THAT'S his problem

[Repanocho]

@romanoswestwood it was a joke dude... relaax... But i wonder to know if you have ever played vs idra... He's not that easy to win (i have played)

[romanoswestwood]

@Repanocho No I haven't played and I would lose for sure but that's not the topic. I didn't tell he is a bad player but he is PREDICTABLE. So if you scout him well you know what he does and you can build something against it. And I think pro gamers can do this way better than an amateur like me.

[Repanocho]

@romanoswestwood its hard to explain when im not english, but its not that easy :/

but that would happen with everymatchup, because playing vs kiwikaki means mothership, for example, isn't it? or playing vs SeleCT means early preassure or stuff like that...

There is not that much of chosings in everyrace, maybe the one that its harder to scout and to know what are they doing are the terran

[romanoswestwood]

@Repanocho So people try to find something which can hold pushes/motherships back etc. The advantage for Zerg is that you can mass new units. If IdrA makes a spire you know he will make 10 mutas and you can build Thor/Stalkerball with blink. Then it'S not imbalanced but IdrA plays with an open hand.

[lukertin]

@romanoswestwood You really can't, since IdrA 1. Isn't actually that predictable, and 2. His timing and game sense is so good that if you try to 'build something against him' he will have the exact counter out 1 second before your push hits him 80% of the time because he knows about it and expects it, the other 15% of the time he will have mis-judged his timing by 5 seconds and the last 5% of the time he just completely misreads his opponent due to bad scouting.

[romanoswestwood]

@lukertin So opponents win by luck against him? They know EXACTLY what to build in their games, though IdrA is more creative than he was some time ago, I admit.

[lukertin]

@romanoswestwood If the game lasts less than 10 minutes, yes, 90% of the time they win by complete luck against him. If the game lasts longer than 20 minutes he was outplayed

[LarsSod]

@n1oneMan

Make sure to have played in at least AHL before having opinions of NHL...

[clarinetman1664]

Fucking protoss are so OP, need to nerf forcefields and HT's and colossus and void, you need no fucking micro for that noob race, just click attack...that's lame. Stupid Blizzard that nerfs stim pack and reapers and bunkers and tanks etc. and boosts those stupid maphacks that are observers, phoenixes, voids, sentries....etc. That's a shame ! protoss is already OP ! NERF SENTRIES FUCKING NERF SENTRIES ! stupid blizzard

[StrOFDefence]

@clarinetman1664 protoss allways cost more dumb fuck

[joelpalkia]

@StrOFDefence ignore clarinetman hes just a noob troll whiner

[Slixys]

@StrOFDefence

protoss UNITS may cost slightly more than their terran counter-parts, but the production facilities for toss are practically free, and they build very quickly and are able to warp-in the units, terran production facilities are very expensive and take a very long time to come online and start producing their first units. Also, toss units are imba, so their cost is nothing compared to their value.

[ucemujeproblem]

@Slixys rax cost 150 min and gateway also costs 150 min. Therefore you comment is incorrect.

[BaronLez]

@ucemujeproblem Rax Costs 200 Min 25 Gas if you want to build any thing but marrines, and to go heavy into mech you need to shell out 200 min 125 per production building, and of course if your going heavy into mech, you damn well have to go heavy into mech because they don't work well in small numbers like bio does. Toss units cost more because warpgate makes their production cycles front loaded and often have more utility than Terran counter parts.

[ucemujeproblem]

@BaronLez If u think like that you need to spend 150 aditional minerals on cyber core if u want to make anything but zealots and also spend 50/50 on warp gate tech. Just look at top 200 on SC2 website. Out of top 20, 11 are terrans, 5 Toss, 4 Zergs. Doesn't take make some kind of a statement?

[lukertin]

@ucemujeproblem Rax also need a tech lab (50/25; 25 sec build) or a reactor (50/50; 60 sec build) for each barracks to produce units at appx same rate as gateway (by which I mean amount of resources invested in army units/ second). Protoss builds a gateweay, transforms into warp and instantly gets unit. Terran builds barracks and can only make marines (takes 25 seconds v. 15 seconds for any unit). Therefore your comment is incorrect and you lack the ability to think critically.

[wilpich]

@clarinetman1664 i agree, i have like 0% winrate against toss

[D347hr4z3r]

@clarinetman1664 Bronze players , please refrain from throwing your unfounded retarded complaints around. With the cost effectiveness of vikings along with marauders being over the top, colossi are practically useless against an MM ball, making High Templars a forced choice. Now the amulet upgrade is lost which means i could be wasting 150 gas on a fragile unit with no attack , if it doesnt get enough time after spawning, to actually use its only damaging ability.

[ucemujeproblem]

@D347hr4z3r Agreed, but i am a master toss player and i have to say that colo isn't useless. If you get several phoenixes to keep the vikings at bay, you may will against 3M. However, vikings do have infinite range and good terran can pick off colos very quickly. As for KA nerf... I think that HT's just won't be used any more...

[D347hr4z3r]

@clarinetman1664 And now you're complaining about sentry FF? If the timer on it gets nerfed, early 3 rax pushes will be unstoppable simply because marauders with conc shells cannot be beaten by ANY gateway units. FF is required so that an immortal can be completed in time to allow SURVIVAL for the first minutes of a match vs a terran. If you are that ignorant your opinion actually carries next to no value.

[crazyskiier0023]

@D347hr4z3r Your right on point, it would be impossible for protoss to stop an early 3 rax push.

[Zorroo93]

@D347hr4z3r Sorry, but I don't agree with you. 3Rax push are easy to stop if you scout them, just get a Dark Shrine, he won't be able to tech to raven easily, and you'll be able to secure an expa really fast with dark templars defending your base, and before you say "he can scan DTs", if you're smart, he won't be able to get rid of DTs even with 10 scans.

[Zorroo93]

@Zorroo93 pd: I'm a rank2 Masters league, if that means something to you.

[siden313]

@Zorroo93

ahahahahahahahhahahahahahah :D You made my day :D:D:D:D:D

"If u wanna defend early 3rax push get dark shrine" hahahahah, Tell me pls do you know anything about timeings and costs of teching to dark temps? How is it possible ure in the master league ?:D:D:D Thx for making me laugh ;]

[Zorroo93]

@siden313 *sigh, if you can't do it, I feel bad for you.

[D347hr4z3r]

@siden313 My thoughts exactly. Oh , and before that fool proposes that we branch to High Templar ( as they share some of the teching time for the shrine), ill have to fucking remind him of the fact that the khaydarin amulet upgrade is gone as of the latest patch. GO FIGURE HOW TO BREAK MIDGAME MMM NOW WITHOUT STORM. And no, colossi dont survive for JACK with stimmed rauders and vikings backing up the MM ball which decimates every gateway unit before you even realise you lost your army -.-

[GraveUypo]

@D347hr4z3r wait, was it the almulet or storm upgrade that was removed again?

-_- stop talking like they removed psy storm. just warp in them earlier instead of on the spot, and be sure to spread them so no ONE EMP gets them all. you at least force terran to get more than 1 ghost and that should make his army considerably smaller

it's funny how protosses like to group their army in a stupid tight ball and "A move" into the enemy, and then later complain about how "emp is overpowered".

[Falqonspam]

@GraveUypo At least play Toss once before you try to insult the players. No Toss uses "A move" into the enemy. Otherwise your Collossi get there first (walking over a ridge to take the shortest path) then the Stalkers show up, and finally the Zealots.

Zerg really can't either unless it's mass 1 unit. The only race that can is Terran.

[GraveUypo]

@Falqonspam lol i play random 80% of the time and i was protoss for a whole month in february. i know how every race works.

in fact, did you know protoss has the best economy by far in the 4~6 first minutes of the game, followed by zerg and thennnn terran? yeah, you would if you played random.

[werxx]

@GraveUypo That's entirely dependant on how many chronoboosts are used on probes, how many larva are spent on lings, how fast of a 2nd hatch is put up/2nd queen made. Also, terran has the best economy with both players on equal bases and full saturation (80 probes mine the same off of 2 bases as 60, 60 scv's + 2 mules > 60 probes). Yeahh, see, you'd know that if you played random in masters.

[GraveUypo]

@werxx not really. protoss have the best economy not because of chronoboost, rather because he doesn't "waste" workers or mining time building stuff, all you need is to take one probe off the line for a few secs and you can build whatever you want.

as for the zerg, if he needs to make lings it means the other player in putting early pressure, which in turn could mean his economy isn't really optmal either.

about full saturation economy, you don't even have to play starcraft2 to know that.

[GraveUypo]

@Falqonspam and you're missing the point, which is how they clump their units together in a tight ball and then whine when 1 or 2 emp is enough to hit all of their units.

ps: a-move doesn't mean "select all units at once and a-move from your base to the enemy base". it means the army takes little to no micro at all to use.

[D347hr4z3r]

@Zorroo93 You are proposing that i tech to my highest tier unit in the game so that i survive the simplest of ''early harass-into expo'' pushes of the terran race? I dont know if you thought about it at all, but believe me, this is coming from a masters lg toss-only player : Its impossible to branch out and tech to anything else after dedicating so much time and resource for a fragile stealth unit that will serve no other purpose - IF you manage to defend using it, that is.

[stretch90]

@D347hr4z3r

what about when it stops any reinforcements from the main for a zerg player? or terran for that matter

[Zeuts85]

@clarinetman1664 Calm down noob.

[UndeadHermit]

open arms... and a gauss rifle. xD

[olopi99]

Socke is german for Sock

[Kayokak]

Philosoraptor -How can the marine's arms be open if he's also holding a gauss rifle?

[Gandoan]

@Kayokak Simple, you may notice that when you get the combat shield marines hold the gauss rifle with one arm. Soooo why not be able to open arms and hold a gun? Gotta remember those suits are completely mechanized.

[gordonplayer]

5:50 soda poping =X

[ph0en1xpx]

"recieve that probe with open arms and a gauss rifle"

hahahha

well done, indeed

[RyantheCanuckpirate]

beep beep beep bronze detected

[padf0ot]

yay crota!

[1234125321]

noob terran expos without throwing down 2+ bunkers and they hve the nerve to call themselves progamers.

[Slixys]

@1234125321

doesn't matter if you have 4 bunkers, a 3gate will crush it with half decent micro, can't repair bunkers vs FF, and marines don't do shit vs guardian shield, if he had 5 bunkers with SCVs already in position, then maybe he could have held it off, just maybe. the problem is though, that you ruin the point of getting more minerals with an FE by wasting them on bunkers, and you might as well have done a 2 rax or 3 rax FE.

Nerf FF duration, cut it in half, then TvP will be balanced

[kb27787]

@Slixys lol maybe Blizz doesnt want Terran FE to be a standard opening... if anything the only really safe FE is for zerg (that's one of the unique racial advantages... P and T have other stronger openings than FE)

[joelpalkia]

@Slixys then TvP will be balanced? nerf FF duration will probably make terran OP once again after the game have been balanced. khaydarin amulet is removed and isnt that enough for you whining terrans?

[RRFGI]

@Slixys Your kidding right? A single maraduer with 0/0 takes down a stalker with 3/3. Marines isnt that good against guardian shields sure but in almost any PvT the Terran wins by only going MMM

[beeboy136]

@1234125321 QQ

[cprules23]

Protoss=pro

[MatMuir]

first