The Whore of Babylon Is Not The Roman Catholic Church

[goldchrist1]

is G7 ans on larger scale CAPITALISM ....YOU BEEN BLESSED BY GOD SPIRIT OF WISDOM

[DefendYourRights1]

Pope Sixtus the III made the decree that the Pope was the only representative of Christ on Earth and had the power to forgive sins and condemn ,Claiming he was GOD, Only read parts of it ,but you get the point . I think there's a video on this on youtube .

[DefendYourRights1]

Proven fact the Catholic church helped Nazi war criminals escape thru italy . The whole history of this so called church is filled with bloodshed and wickedness , for you to say this isn't the whore is rather naive ,Are you a Catholic ?

[ndzoko]

@DefendYourRights1 There is no "whore of babylon," because the whole bible is one poorly written fairy tale.

[DefendYourRights1]

First I would like to say, that every aspect of the Catholic church points to it being the Whore . From the scarlet and purple to the 7 hills, Bible says the Kings of the Medes shall make themselves proud, and he will use their DEVICE to destroy BABYLON , Now here's the clincher ........For it is the Vengeance of my Temple. The Romans destroyed both Temples , the bldg and Christ . It says the blood of the saints and all who are slain rests upon them .The Priest saluting Hitler is a red flag .

[ndzoko]

@DefendYourRights1 What silly incomprehensible bible school nonsense.

[RenewalOfAllThings]

1Peter 5:13 "She who is in Babylon, chosen together with you, sends you her greetings, and so does my son Mark." NIV

1Peter 5:13 "Salute you doth the assembly in Babylon jointly elected, and Markus my son." YLT

Peter's "assembly/church" was in "Babylon". Catholicism didn't exist when Peter wrote this, but adulterous Jerusalem did.

[RenewalOfAllThings]

Who does the bible say is the "prostitute" and "adulterous generation"? The Old Testament clearly has God punishing Jerusalem for "adultery" with other gods. In fact, Hosea names his children with a prostitute "not my people" and it is a sign of Jerusalem. And Jesus himself said that his own generation was "adulterous" which means "prostitute". Babylon the Great was old Jerusalem who was stoned to death for adultery in 70 AD.

[mtzion211]

@RenewalOfAllThings Amen! I would agree, I am just not sure about AD 70 being a part of Revelation. I see Revelation as showing us the spiritual (symbolic) accomplishments of Jesus Christ. The Revelation of Jesus Christ I believe is just that. The revealing of Jesus Christ to us. GB

[RenewalOfAllThings]

@mtzion211

Right but more directly Revelation itself says that it is about the "events which must soon take place". Jesus was not the "events" but had authority over the events. 70 AD was "soon" as was the fall of the Temple and City in Rev 11 (most obvious example).

[TheBrideage]

They will be grafted in again, the 144,000 when the two witnesses are sent to them. They are virgins not whores.

Besides My Lord is terrible (Ps 47:2), so thank you.

[TheBrideage]

Romans 11

Israel was blinded, so the gentiles could be grafted in, and They Will be grafted in Again! The 144,000. They are not whores they are Virgins. Amen.

[1Mazzaroth]

@TheBrideage That is terrible and horrible thinking, not you, but that theology. You mean the billions of Jews for 2000 years have been going to Hell? The math goes like this 12000 x 12 = 144,000 = 1 whole = 1 Israel = 1 Son of God.

Exodus 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

it does not mean the actual number of Jews to be saved.

[1Mazzaroth]

I have no doubt in what your saying. I spent the last 15 years in the California Army Natonal Gaurd and United States Army Reserve. We sit around the campfires and talk of these things. But as I observed closer to what I was reading in the bible, I began to see flaws concerning the Mother of harlots as the catholic church or United States. I began to see all the beasts mentioned in Revelation as all having 7 heads and ten horns.

[WillSee11]

@1Mazzaroth Well the "mystery of Iniquity" (II Thes. 2;7) has been at work long before the Roman Church began, and the "spirit of the antichrist" is already in the world as well, 2 John 4; 3 But as you pointed out, the WOMAN or Mystery Babylon rides the beast. Rev. 17;3. so the Mother of Harlots is not the beast, but supported by the beast as she rides to power. The Two are different. When the Antichrist and his kings are through with their whore (Rome) they will burn her with fire. Rev. 17;16.

[1Mazzaroth]

@WillSee11 The Beast (Devil) does support the Woman (Whore, Babylon,Mother of Harlots), not Rome (Vatican or Catholic Church). This beast and woman supports rebellion against having a husband (Christ) to bring forth children unto God and raises Harlots with many lovers and causes hate toward the Prophets and Saints of God, the opposite of Jerusalem in Revelation 21. This is a Spirit that invaded Natural Jerusalem and now has invaded many believers among every denomination.

[WillSee11]

@1Mazzaroth Again the is no doubt about the current fallen state of Jerusalem. But you can even go back to Genesis with Melchizedek, Abraham, Jacob, David and all through times to Christ and the apostles and see the consistent plan that God has to restore Jerusalem for HIS throne. Mystery Babylon in the book of Revelation is an economic and political center, and fountain of spiritual harlotry, which the kings of the earth have fornicated with. That is clearly the Vatican / Rothschild bank system

[1Mazzaroth]

@WillSee11 John 6:15 When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.

The father and Jesus have no plans of being king here on earth. The kingdom of God is with in you and he has set up throne in your heart, therefore restored the kingdom in and through man.

Daniel 4:17 to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men

the kingdoms of this world are his

[WillSee11]

@1Mazzaroth Well I thought we went over this. The kingdoms of THIS world are in the power of the evil one, as we hear repeated so many times by the apostles teaching. Even Jesus did not dispute Satan' lease on these kingdoms when he was tempted to "bow down and serve" the devil during his 40 days in the wilderness. But I think our main point of disagreement is about a PHYSICAL coming and restoration. Do you believe hell is a real place? How about a physical resurrection of the dead?

[1Mazzaroth]

@WillSee11Not according to Daniel, just because he is the ruler of this world doesn't make him ruler over God. Satan's power has been defeated. So compared to the kingdom with in me, all the kingdoms are still in rule by God. Religion always sees the Devil in everything and God in little things. The Devil cant tempt Jesus to what was and is already his. I didn't agree to anything concerning the Kingdoms of this world, were not through conversing.

[1Mazzaroth]

@WillSee11 Hell, yeah...That didn't sound right. Yes, there is a hell. Physical ressurection, No!

[WillSee11]

@1Mazzaroth See I am not really sure that your on the actual foundation of the Christian faith. The entire New Testament is based upon the Physical Resurrection of Christ, being the first fruit of those yet to come. As Paul says if Christ be not resurrected (physically) your faith is in vain. 1st Corinthians chapter 15 explains how all men will physically resurrect, and that the evil powers and satanic enemies of this world will then be subjected to Him upon His return.

[1Mazzaroth]

@WillSee11 Romans 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:

1 Corinthians 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

I am christian. No the N.T. is not on Physical Resurrection. N.T. says you must be baptized in the likeness of his death and must die daily. That is not physically but spiritually dying to self and the emotions and desires of your flesh.

[1Mazzaroth]

@WillSee11 You would have to go back to Adam and Eve. The Lord said the day they eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil they shall die. Well, they didn't drop dead Physically, what died was their living soul because of sin and sin is not an act. Remember it was disobedience that was their sin and the wages of sin is death.

[mtzion211]

@1Mazzaroth Jesus was resurrected physically as an example to us. We will be raised spiritually, not physically I believe. If raised physically would we still have the same old body as Jesus did? (Holes were still in his hands) GB

[1Mazzaroth]

@mtzion211 Amen I agree

[1Mazzaroth]

@mtzion211 "If raised physically would we still have the same old body as Jesus did?"

No we put on his glorified body

[1Mazzaroth]

“until the fullness of the gentiles be come in”

Acts 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

There is the fullness of the Gentiles coming in and it has been that way unto this day.

[WillSee11]

Jerusalem is NOT the Whore of Babylon. It is indeed Rome and the Vatican. The Bible tells us that Rome, or Mystery Babylon will be completely destroyed. But Jerusalem (though it is currently in a state of unbelief) WILL BE the city of the GREAT KING, prophesied to be the Throne of Jesus when He returns. Like Babylon of old, Rome destroyed the Temple and enslaved the Jews. Peter (the apostle) labeled Rome Babylon, 1st. Pet. 5;13 like John in Rev. Chpt. 17 and 18. COME our to ROME it will BURN!

[1Mazzaroth]

@WillSee11 Natural Jerusalem have the Spirit of Babylon the Mother of harlots, but we are of the Spiritual Jerusalem which is from above that is free, the Mother of us all. People, Babylon the Mother of Harlots is a Spirit that has invaded natural Israel and some believers in Christ and she is the opposite of our Spiritual Mother Jerusalem, it is that simple. Do not make Babylon natural but Spiritual. Hear what the Spirit is saying.

God Bless

[WillSee11]

@1Mazzaroth Well I am not in total disagreement about the current state of Jerusalem in unbelief. (or many modern cities for that matter) But Mystery Babylon is a REAL place. It is Rome, which like the Babylon of 586 B.C. destroyed the Jewish Temple state of Jerusalem as Rome destroyed the Temple in 70 A.D. Rome has been the final kingdom of Daniel's image found in Dan. Chapter 2. It has been the central empire (east and west) since Peter identified it as such in 1st. Peter. 5; 13.

[1Mazzaroth]

QUESTION: Is Jerusalem in revelation 21 talking about the natural Jerusalem in the Middle East or is it Spiritual from heaven the church? We read in the Bible two Jerusalem’s, but one is natural and the other spiritual. There are two Babylon’s in the Bible also, but one Spiritual and the other natural which you are referring to. Daniel 2 describes an everlasting Kingdom God will set up above all the other kingdoms and that kingdom is the Holy Ghost that dwells in the heart of believers.

[WillSee11]

@1Mazzaroth This is a good question. The natural Jerusalem, will be the Capitol city of the earth during the 1,000 year reign of Jesus and his resurrected saints. "The lion shall lie down with the lamb, the earth will be in perfect ecological harmony, and the natural man will live to be several hundred years old.( Is.65;20-25) Israel will be re-named Beulah, (Is. 62;4) A New Heaven and New Earth with the New Jerusalem will be created at the end of God's Day of Rest, which will be everlasting.

[1Mazzaroth]

You don’t see that a thousand years is as one day in the eyes of the Lord and that we are that day or thousand rein now? 1 Thessalonians 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. This would be us in that thousand year rein our Lord the same yesterday, today and tomorrow which means one day, the Day or thousand year rein. He is now the Light and we are no more in darkness.

[WillSee11]

@1Mazzaroth There is truth to that. But as Jesus said "my Kingdom is not of this world" John 18;36. In the book of Revelation there is a time coming when a heavenly declaration is made, when the Seventh Angel sounds his trumpet saying: The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdom of our Lord, and His Christ. Rev. 11;15. This will begin the physical transformation of this earth to restoration. Jesus is going to rule THIS world for 1,000 years to PROVE that it can be done the right way.

[1Mazzaroth]

@WillSee11 That kingdom now dwells in the believer.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

And truly rules over all the other kingdoms of this world and they are subjected to the power of this kingdom with in us. For greater is he that is in me than he that is the world. That statement tells me there that the ruler of this world along with his kingdoms of the world are subjected to the Holy Ghost kingdom inside me.

[WillSee11]

@1Mazzaroth I think you are missing the point. YOU may have the kingdom inside you. but the World is a VERY, VERY dark place, ruled by sin, death and the prince of this world (who is the enemy or satanic power) This situation will change. Remember that the apostles who wrote that truth about your own personal condition, died as martyrs. They never said THIS world was hunky dory, in fact they openly explained WHY things are the way they are now. This will ALL change when the Lord returns.

[1Mazzaroth]

@WillSee11 The question here is, God in control and Lord over all? When he rose from the grave he was made both Lord and Christ. In fact when we gave our life to Jesus we saw him as our Lord and Lord of all and Savior. How can any believer say he is not yet in control over the power of Satan, when he defeated Satan at the cross.

Luke 11:20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.

No doubt was revealing the presence of the Kingdom

[WillSee11]

@1Mazzaroth God is in control. But He is going to let evil run its course, just as He did when Jesus died on the cross, and then God will restore things as they should be. Rome will continue its evil course as "Mystery Babylon" until it is burned, even by the Antichrist, as God foretold. Former Jesuit priest, theologian and adviser to the pope, Malachi Martin confirms there are "Black Masses" beneath the Vatican where children are sacrificed to satan. Google him to see. This will all end soon.

[1Mazzaroth]

@WillSee11 Not to be rude, but Malachi Martins books don't impress me. The reason I agree with this video above is because I see the beast and the Mother of Harlots as a spirit and not a anything natural about countries in this world. When you read revelation it is telling us to hear or read what the spirit (God) is saying and if you can understand the Spirit is the Father revealing Jesus Christ, you will see the Revelation of Jesus Christ which this book is about.

[WillSee11]

@1Mazzaroth Well, not to be rude either, but I have read Martin's book "Jesuits" which is rather easy-going on this notorious pack of dangerous criminals. It is not likely that he would openly confirm child sacrifices do exist under the Vatican if it were not true. as a former papal adviser and theology professor in Rome. But in due respect, I think you are trying to "spiritualize" things that are intended to be taken literally. Mystery Babylon is a REAL place (Rome) and the center of corruption

[1Mazzaroth]

@WillSee11 That is the problem with the churches today, they know very little of spirituality of the word of God and think they everything about Demons which are spirits. It takes the Spirit of God to reveal the Son Jesus Christ and it takes the Son to reveal the Father (Spirit). Here is where the churches error of the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Babylon is a place in Rome I don't deny that but the Babylon in revelation is not

[WillSee11]

@1Mazzaroth Well all I can say, is that when I first became a believer (many years ago) in Jesus Christ, I was very adamant about Rome the the Vatican being the "Mystery Babylon" of Rev. 17 and 18. That sort of cooled off as years went by, and I even married a Catholic lady. But as I have researched things recently, in particular the Jesuit control of the US, UK, UN, and spy networks, I now realize there was FAR MORE than I perceived or understood about who deep into sin and politics Rome goes.

[1Mazzaroth]

Revelation 12:3 and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

Revelation 13:1 a beast having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Revelation 17:3 and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

All these beasts had seven heads and ten horns, they may of had different looks, but it is still the Devil.

[mtzion211]

@WillSee11 Revelation states simply that the whore of Babylon is that great city where our Lord was crucified. That is Jerusalem. Many other things that are stated in the video of how Jerusalem lines up with ALL the characteristics of Mystery Babylon the Great. Also please keep in mind that I believe that the Bible is speaking of the revelation of Jesus Christ. The whore of Babylon refers to 1st Century Jerusalem. I believe this is all connected with the revelation of Jesus Christ...

[WillSee11]

@mtzion211 No. Revelation does NOT say that Mystery Babylon is "the city where our Lord was crucified", you have to READ very carefully here. Rev. 11;8 refers to Jerusalem as Egypt and Sodom but NOT Babylon. Egypt and Sodom were places that God's people we escorted out of during judgment. In contrast Babylon and Mystery Babylon (Rome) are places that DESTROYED the Temple and attacked Jerusalem. A BIG difference here. Jerusalem just doesn't fit the world economic political center in Rev 17 and 18

[mtzion211]

@WillSee11 You are correct and I see the two great cities as the same. Mystery Babylon is referred to as the great city only. Nevertheless, who else in the Bible could Mystery Babylon be but for 1st Century Jerusalem? Please read all of Ezekiel 16 and compare to the whore of Babylon of Rev 17. Jeremiah states that Jerusalem had the voice of the bride, bridegroom, sound of the millstone, trumpet, etc. These same things are NOT found in Mystery Babylon any more. (cont)

[mtzion211]

@WillSee11 (cont) The Bible clearly states that the blood of the prophets was found in Mystery Babylon. All of the prophets that were killed were killed by and at Jerusalem. Jesus even states that it is impossible that a prophet die outside of Jerusalem. Jesus stated that the blood of all the prophets would be required of that generation. Remember that the faithful city had become a harlot. There are many more.

I just do not see references in the Bible that could be any more clearer. GB

[WillSee11]

@mtzion211 There is no question that Jerusalem has been both the City of the Great King, (Ps. 48) and a "harlot" by even Jesus. But the supposition that you have is based upon '1st Century Jerusalem" and if your interpretation of Revelation does not see this as a future prophecy, it is not likely that you will see Rome as Babylon AFTER the fall of Jerusalem and the continuation of Daniel's image found in Dan. 2. Millions of saints and prophets have been martyred by Rome and the Vatican for years

[mtzion211]

@WillSee11 Thank you for replying.  I used to believe like you...the 1,000 year reign of Christ, 7 year tribulation, antichrist, cashless society leading to the mark, raptures, etc. That being said I will leave it with you. We will have to disagree. To put it plainly, with so much evidence that the Bible gives for interpreting Revelation I could never go anywhere else. Revelation is all symbolic and is about Christ's accomplishments at His 1st coming. GB

[WillSee11]

@mtzion211 I am not sure that your position is officially a Preterist point of view, but it certainly does not exclude you as a Christian believer, though we may respectfully disagree about eschatology. I know many people who hold to the essential doctrine in the redemption of Christ who are preterists. Bet even though all generations have believed theirs to be THE Generation of the Apocalypse, these were prior to WMD's and DNA destruction. You can change your mind later after review.

[WillSee11]

@mtzion211 St. Peter's Plaza is the legendary place where BOTH Peter and Paul were Martyred. The shedding of the blood of the saints is far more characteristic of Rome than Jerusalem. According to former Jesuit Priest , Malachi Martin, there are actually Black Masses in the caverns below the Vatican where children are sacrificed, This is not fiction like his book "Windswept House" which was based on ACTUAL Facts. He should know, he taught theology there and was a papal adviser.

[RenewalOfAllThings]

@WillSee11

The problem is that the Whore Babylon is "hated" by the Beast it rides on and the Beast in fact destroys Babylon and leaves her naked. Biblically, Babylon is clearly destroyed by the Beast in Rev 17. Historically, Jerusalem is clearly destroyed by Rome in 70 AD. This is fulfillment of Luke 11:51ff and 21:22 about the stones of the Temple not remaining upon one another via Gentiles (Rev 11:2). Also, GENTILES are equated to unclean "animals" in prophecy, Jews were wife/bride/whore

[RenewalOfAllThings]

@WillSee11

Furthermore, Jews were a "woman" via Covenantal relationship. God was the "greater" in the Covenant and the Jews were the "lesser". God was the "husband" via Covenant to the Jews, his wife. When this wife Israel was faithful, she was described favorably. When this wife was unfaithful God chastised her and eventually divorced her, stoning her by enemies. But God NEVER described Israel as the unclean Gentile "beasts". A woman (good or bad), yes, but NEVER a beast.

[fx2py]

@WillSee11 Jerusalem is the Whore, not the Catholic Church. To say the Whore is the Catholic Church instead of Jerusalem is just typical of Protestantism's tendency to Judaize, like when Protestants follow the authority of Pharisee party of biased, anti-Christian Jews, instead of the early Church and the Church Fathers, to determine the canon of the Old Testament; or like the widespread evangelical Protestant support of wars for Israel and Zionism. Protestants are Judaizers.

[WillSee11]

@fx2py Hey if you don't like the "wars for Israel" (and I don't blame you , I don't like them either) maybe you should go to Jesuit Georgetown and stop by Jesuit Priest's Edmund Walsh's 'School of Foreign Service" where Robert Gates, Leon Panetta, Gen. Petaeus,James Clapper (spy Czar, CIA and Sec, of Defense, Bill Clinton and the other Jesuit agents, Including Haig and Donny Dumsfeld came from. The Jesuits created Hitler, Napoleon and Stalin. These are the kings who fornicate with Rome.

[fx2py]

@WillSee11 Nonsense. There would be none of these wars for Israel by the neocons if they did not have so much support from evangelical Protestants. The Pope and the Vatican warned against the Iraq war, but Bush and the neocon evangelical Protestants ignored them.

[WillSee11]

@fx2py Ah, but you are so Naive. Long, long before these modern times the pope wanted to control Jerusalem during the bloody crusades. (which is what Islamic leaders called Bush's wars if you recall) The pope has NEVER given up that ambition. In fact, right now he is making his move to take Jerusalem, and you have no idea of how this plan is in effect.

[fx2py]

@WillSee11 Your post does not refute the fact that evangelical Protestants support the neocon wars for Israel, which would not be possible without that support, nor does it refute the fact that Bush and the evangelical Protestants ignored the Pope and the Vatican who warned against the Iraq war.

[WillSee11]

@fx2py You know my position on the illegal wars, so I don't fit your prejudiced generalization, nor do many other Protestants. But I have one for you, when asked what he saw when he looked in the pope's eyes, George W. said " I see God" Do you see God in the pope's eyes like Bush? Come on now? You must! You know what I see? I see Caesar wearing a Fish hat. I also see a man who covers up child sacrifices in Black Masses under the Vatican, according to former Jesuit, Malachi Martin.

[fx2py]

@WillSee11 Aside from your position on wars for Israel & that of other Protestants, the fact remains that the ones enabling the neocon wars for Israel are Zionist PROTESTANTS, many of whom believe in false doctrines like the Rapture & "Left Behind," defending Israel so they can rebuild their Temple (which is an act of rebellion against God because the true Temple is Christ); & like you, they fail to see that Jerusalem is the Whore of Babylon & insist that it is the Catholic Church.

[WillSee11]

@fx2py Oddly enough, we are actually in agreement on part of what you stated here. Not all Protestants believe in the Dallas Seminary pre-tribulation "Left Behind" scenario,so you can not generalize on that, but you I agree that the entire movement to Rebuild Solomon's Temple is an act of "rebellion against God because the true Temple is Christ);"Read Isiah Ch. 66. I do wish that you would not assume to know what I believe before you make these statements about my position.

[fx2py]

@WillSee11 A significant number of Protestants believe in the pre-tribulation "Left Behind" scenario. This is why the anti-Catholic Left Behind series is a New York Times bestseller and sold over 65 million copies. According to Gallup, Protestants were the MOST supportive of the Iraq war. Protestant TV is full of televangelists supporting Israel, fixated on end-times Bible prophecy and the rebuilding of the Temple, and teaching on the pre-tribulation Rapture and anti-Catholicism.

[WillSee11]

@fx2py Is that the reason why Newt Gingrich (recent Catholic convert) and Rick Santorum (Catholic trained) are the most vocal supporters of a new war with Iran and the current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? Now come on? Do I need to re-state that Clapper, Panetta, Gates, Rumsfeld, Petraeus, Tenent, Clinton and others all attended Walsh's School of Foreign Service at Jesuit Georgetown? How about Pelosi, Biden and Kerry? All Catholics behind the war agenda. CIA= Catholics in Action.

[fx2py]

@WillSee11 I That does not refute what I posted. You're just referring to corrupt Catholics & to non-Catholics who went to Georgetown. So what? That does not refute the fact that the Vatican is opposed to the war agenda. Choosing war is the individual's fault, not the Vatican.

In Protestantism the individual is responsible for interpreting the Bible & morality, so when it is the main supporter of the Zionist wars, then that is an indictment of Protestantism, its adherents & leaders.

[WillSee11]

@fx2py I am sure that I am not alone when I question why you give Catholics and excuse to be hypocritical, when graduates from Jesuit Georgetown at the TOP levels of US war policy, propagate the wars you decry, then blame Protestants as the cause.

[fx2py]

@WillSee11 I already said that choosing war is the individual's fault. Individual Catholics & even Georgetown are not free from blame if they are for wars for Israel. The Vatican & Catholic moral teaching are not to blame if individual Catholic people & institutions do their own thing & not follow them, whereas Protestantism as a belief deserves blame because it teaches that the individual decides how to interpret the Bible & morality, & this time many Protestants did it wrongly.

[WillSee11]

@fx2py Well our discussion was centered around one point of controversy, which I am providing details and support for here. The point of the video here, and our discussion is about the QUESTION of WHO is Mystery Babylon? The "great whore or city with whom the kings of earth have committed fornication with" What I have tried to help you see, is that the Vatican is one of the main parts of the New World Order system, (perhaps the biggest part) The pope calls for a New World Order himself.

[WillSee11]

@WillSee11 What I have provided is a LIST of people who run the War Powers of the US. All of them are either Jesuit trained or part of this system, that you blame for the illegal wars. I don't think we disagree about the question of the morality and justification of the wars. I have even agreed that Protestants have been duped into supporting them as well. The Question is : Is the Vatican behind this as well under the pretense of appearing not to be? YES. Obviously they are.

[WillSee11]

@WillSee11 A renewal of the Israeli-Palestinian quest for peace began at the end of the Cold War as the United States took the lead in international affairs. President George H. W. Bush, in a speech on 11 September 1990, spoke of a "rare opportunity" to move toward a "New world order" in which "the nations of the world, east and west, north and south, can prosper and live in harmony,"

[WillSee11]

@fx2py You are getting VERY WARM here, but you are still off track. There are actually THREE (3) secret societies working in collusion to rebuild the Temple. They are the political Sabbatean labor party zionists, (Babylonian Kabbalahists Jews), the top level Free Masons (who claim to be the master builders) and---The pope and the Vatican. That's RIGHT! The pope and his Jesuit agents, now have TITLE DEED on the property. Study the Oslo agreement in 93, Peres SOLD them the Temple site!

[fx2py]

@WillSee11

You failed to include the Zionist Protestants in your list of those working in collusion to rebuild the Temple. The Pope and the Vatican do NOT belong on that list.

Please provide proof by citing valid documentation showing that the Pope and the Vatican expressly state they want the Temple rebuilt. You cannot.

[WillSee11]

@fx2py I will agree with you about the "zionist Protestants" blindly in collusion to rebuild the temple, But I will strongly disagree with you over something you won't admit, and that is the Vatican connection to this same agenda. I wonder why? I told you about the Oslo agreement in 1993. I am going to leave this to you to investigate for yourself, and see what you come up with on your own.

[fx2py]

@WillSee11 "I am going to leave this to you to investigate for yourself, and see what you come up with on your own."

That is a cop out. You said the Vatican is one of 3 secret societies working to rebuild the Temple. All you gave as "proof" was the Oslo agreement of 1993. That's too vague. Why should I go on a wild goose chase looking for something that most likely does not exist? If you had proof then you would be able to cite the source and location within it.

[WillSee11]

@fx2py Please don't be offended, but Do you remember the answer Jesus gave when he spoke in parables, and why He didn't bother the explain them? Because He knew people really didn't want to hear the answers anyway. But just today. Your Jesuit trained Catholic Secretary of State stated concerning Iran: Leon Panetta said that Iran is laying the groundwork for making nuclear weapons. “We have common cause here” with Israel, he said. “And the better approach is for us to work together.”

[fx2py]

@WillSee11 You are not Jesus Christ, and I really want to hear the answer. Were you talking in parables? Referring to Oslo does not sound like a parable to me. If you know the citation, then you should be able to provide it. If you are going to make a claim, you need to be able to back it up.

[WillSee11]

@fx2py Now concerning Oslo, this negotiation was conducted in a covert manner. Part of the negotiations were to allow the Vatican to take title deed and possession of large portions of the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. This deal cut by Labor party Foreign Minister Peres, and the details of the exchange of ownership were revealed later, which made many rabbi's furious! Peres sold these land deals to the Vatican.

[thyman01]

@fx2py I agree with you 100%

[fx2py]

@WillSee11 "Peter (the apostle) labeled Rome Babylon, 1st. Pet. 5;13 like John in Rev. Chpt. 17 and 18. COME our to ROME it will BURN!"

Many Protestants deny that Peter was ever in Rome because they try to disprove that Peter was Bishop of Rome and first Pope. By using that verse, you are acknowledging he was in Rome. You Protestants cannot have it both ways.

[WillSee11]

@fx2py I think evidence is very good which places Peter in Rome, which makes Rome Babylon. The old city of Babylon was in ruins by 119 B.C, and there is no record of Peter traveling there. There seems to be evidence that he was crucified upside down near the pillar of Caligula, in the middle of the Circus Maximus, This same Egyptian Pillar stands today in S. Peter's Basilica at the Vatican, as a tribute to its Masonic design, similar to Washington D.C and City of London.

[TheBrideage]

Please read Romans chapter 11 Rom 11:25-26

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: KJV

[1Mazzaroth]

“All Israel shall be saved,” does not mean there will be a time of every Jewish person of natural Israel in the Middle East shall be saved. As Paul wrote:

Romans 9:6 For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Not all of them are Jews or of the house of Israel, though they were born after the flesh of Abraham.

Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

[TheBrideage]

Rome: She's drunken with the blood of the Saints, they killed 68,000,000 christians in the dark ages, they also killed Jesus.

[TheBrideage]

Psa 137:5-6

5 If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget [her cunning].

6 If I do not remember thee, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; if I prefer not Jerusalem above my chief joy. KJV

[SDRAsiaMinistry]

The woman, Babylon, of Revelation 17, is described as “arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness. . . . And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon the Great, the mother of harlots.” Says the prophet, “I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.” [Revelation 17:4-6.] DARK AGES

[HomeSkillet489]

But like I said, I believe that the harlot is Jerusalem and the beast is the Old Roman empire. Not to damn anyone who thinks differently I'm just pointing out what I believe that it parallels to according to my Bible studies and my historical lessons.

[HomeSkillet489]

Well, I believe that the Great Harlot is Jerusalem. If anything the Whore of Babylon was probably The Old Roman Empire, because if you read the text carefully in Rev. 17-18 it's speaking in the present tense. Both the Old Roman Empire and Jerusalem were present at the time that St. John wrote the Apocalypse, but the Vatican did not exist at that time. The Vatican did not come about until 1927.

[TheBrideage]

I appreciate that, im sure there wont, be any arguing over there, where we have eternity with each other :)

[TheBrideage]

My dear brothers, If we're going to answer bible questions by the bible itself, Then we must realize that every time prophecy was ever given, It was BOTH physical and spiritual, Everytime jesus christ the same yesterday today and forever, I think this is a easy as going too far 1 way or the other, when it's really it's both.

[mtzion211]

@TheBrideage Well I wish you the best. We will have to agree to disagree on this. I understand that some of the prophesies were spiritual and literal in fulfillment. AD 70 and the Olivet discourse comes to mind and also Jeremiah. Revelation is the revelation of Jesus Christ. The prophecy part stated in Revelation is another issue as I also believe that the book of Revelation is the book of Revelation 5 and 6. Nevertheless, you cannot say that some is symbolic and some is literal. GB

[1Mazzaroth]

The whore is not the catholic church, nor does it point to the Catholics. The Whore (is a disobedient Spirit) it is the opposite of the bride, Jerusalem. Jerusalem (us, Church Spirit of Obedience) is willing to marry, become one and obedient to the law (New Covenant) of her husband, Christ. Jerusalem has one lover for her soul. Song of Solomon 3:4 but I found him whom my soul loveth: Some say they are one with Jesus and walk as a whore. Revelation 2:4 thou hast left thy first love.

[1Mazzaroth]

After the woman gave birth, the Devil caused a flood to come forth out his mouth. Two things helped the woman. 1)The Earth opened her mouth, and swallowed the flood. 2) Two wings of a great eagle were given to the woman that she might fly into the wilderness, and then to the place God had prepared for her. There she is nourished from the face of the serpent.

This is us, the church who have overcome by waiting on the Lord to birth the christ child within us, born again. Isaiah 40:31

[TheBrideage]

I also abhor denominational systems, hope you see im using scripture here...

[TheBrideage]

The Jews do not own the wealth of the world, the Jews do not rule over the kings of the earth, the Jews do not sit on 7 hills, the Jews do not have the number of a man the number 666, but, the vatican does...

[Alonesoldier100]

@TheBrideage I Could'nt have said it better. Bullseye! Can't argue against that.

[mtzion211]

@Alonesoldier100 Get out of the physical man. Please tell me what parts of revelation are physically real and what is symbolic? I know you do not expect a woman clothed with the sun to appear like in revelation 12. I know that the beasts of revelation 13 you don't expect for real. Somehow though you are convinced that other parts are real. I hope you see the contradiction in this. GB

[Alonesoldier100]

@mtzion211 What the hell are you on about?

[mtzion211]

@TheBrideage Physical wealth is not what is being discussed. That is spiritual wealth of the Jews in the OT. The Jews did rule at one time and they ruled spiritually. The seven hills you speak of is also not physical. You do not have an understanding of 666. No offense but you need to get out of the physical. The woman is not physical but the 7 hills are? The beast is not literal but the 666 is? It is all spiritual but I cannot help you to see what you do not see. GB

[cbasallie]

@mtzion211 They do ''buy and sell''. In the Temple they angered Jesus with this practice as seen when he rebuked the money changers. Presently '''buying and selling'' is done with currency by the Federal Reserve when , with a faulty balance, they ''change'' a coins value.

The star of David is the Star of a certain man (David) and has 6 - 3 sided triangles. I don't believe hands or heads are literally stamped but...I believe hearts can be ''marked''.

[HomeSkillet489]

@TheBrideage Jerusalem also sits on seven hills. God bless. The Jewish religion had a great impact upon the rest of the world. Jerusalem was decked with gold and precious stones and the voice of the bridegroom and the bride and the light of lamp and the millstone by God himself. But she rebelled against Him and it was taken all away from her and the church is now God's eternal and immacualte bride. Zionism is heresy. God bless.

[TheBrideage]

His people are his people, they will be saved 144,000 they are not whores, they are they are virgins.

[1Mazzaroth]

@TheBrideage The 144000 are not the amount of Jews that will be saved. The math goes like this: 12000 x 12 Tribes = 144000 = 1 Israel = 1 whole = 1 Kingdom of God of Peace Joy Righteousness in the Holy Ghost. This reveals Gods Kingdom as being made whole or restored through the Holy Ghost and not natural Israel or Jews. When people read the book of Revelations, they always hear and see it with the natural understanding, instead of hearing what the "Spirit is saying unto the Churches."

[TheBrideage]

It is a fact that the roman catholic version of "vicar of christ" equals 666, it is a fact that she holds the wealth of the world, and doing so rules over all the kings of the earth, it is a fact that she sits on 7 hills, of course it's always been a spirit but the spirit has a resting place in rome

[TheBrideage]

It was the jews denominational systems, (what we do don't believe, what we can and can't believe), that kept him from seeing the messiah

[mtzion211]

@TheBrideage (cont) voice of gladness, and the sound of the trumpet. All of these things are stated in Jeremiah that Jerusalem had. I also know that others have killed Christians throughout history but again sticking with the scriptures it is quoted many times that the Jews were responsible for the death of the prophets. Even Jesus stated this.  Just trying to help. God bless you in the truth of His Word! :)

[TheBrideage]

The roman catholic church the first denomination, which makes it the mother whore, then we fled to america, and carried some of her theology with us, making the american denominations the harlots, now the pope is crying for everyone to come back to mama.

[mtzion211]

@TheBrideage Thanks again. There is much conjecture about the book of revelation. I believe the most important thing is to use the bible to interpret itself. With so many scriptures that support Mystery Babylon being 1st century Jerusalem it is hard to believe anything else. Not only is Jerusalem called a harlot, whore, and abomination but she also was adorned as the Whore of Babylon in Ezekiel 16. Also the Whore of Babylon loses the sound of the millstone, bride, bridegroom, (cont)

[mtzion211]

@TheBrideage I wanted to state that I am not a Catholic. I am non-denominational and believe that there is the saved and the lost. GB

[HomeSkillet489]

@TheBrideage if catholicism is the first denomination, and it is the whore, then what denomination is right. rather you're an evangelical, a baptist, a lutheran,or one of the many other protestant sects, MARTIN LUTHER is the source for your beliefs. It's a historical fact that prior to Luther's split from Catholicism in 1520, there was no public defender for what we now know to be Protestantism. It's a condradiction to say that the church closest to christ's time is antichrist. U R DECEIVED

[TheBrideage]

Well Im not so sure now :) , I have watched the other video and do agree!

[mtzion211]

@TheBrideage Thanks again! There are many good videos at my web site and also a new blog that you might find interesting. I invite you to comment or join at bibleknowledgeonline. GB

[TheBrideage]

I meant to say that you said that there can't be, but obviously there is, and it does speak of both physical and spiritual, 1 right after another.

[mtzion211]

@TheBrideage Hello and thank you for posting! Revelation 21:1-2 is all spiritual (symbolic). What part of these verses do you believe is physical if I might ask? Thanks again and God bless!

[mtzion211]

@TheBrideage I also wanted to add one more thing. The New Jerusalem is the bride or the Church that now exists. It is the kingdom that Jesus came to establish. The kingdom of God is within you as the Bible states. Notice in Isaiah the walls of salvation and the gates of praise promised. The new heaven and new earth are here now as a result of Jesus. When one gets saved it is not the physical that changes but it is the relationship with God that changes. Same with the new heaven and earth.

[TheBrideage]

Revelation 21:1-2, You made a comment that you can have physical and spiritual at the same time, After reading the scripture you will see both physical and spiritual heaven, isnt that right?

[HomeSkillet489]

The Beast is Pagan (ancient) Rome and the Harlot is Jerusalem in my mind. God bless

[1Mazzaroth]

In Revelations 12:3, John sees the Great Red Dragon having 7 heads and 10 horns: that old Serpent, called the Devil and Satan. In Revelations 13:1, John still sees a beast with 7 heads and 10 horns rise out of the sea. In Revelations 17:3, again, we see the 7 heads and 10 horns as a colored beast and full of names of blasphemy. In Revelations 17:9 the focus is on the 7 heads and 10 horns. No matter what Beast of the 7 heads and 10 horns you apply this to, it is still the same meaning.

[Postoasted]

Thanks . But I think Dave Hunt in his documentary "A Woman Rides the Beast." Basically nails it.

[mtzion211]

@Postoasted We are hopefully, with the Lord's help, turning the tide on Dave Hunt's false teachings! GB

[truthb2u2]

The whoredoms of Aholah and Aholibah....Ezekiel 23....u are correct Tom...it is NOT the Roman Catholic church!!

[truthb2u2]

Isaiah 1:21 How is the faithful city become an harlot! It was full of judgement; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.

[mrtreydaniels]

There are many more scriptures I can give you. Remember the antichrist rules from Jerusalem. It is invaded but not destroyed. When Jesus returns He sets his foot on the mount of olives and enters through the eastern gates. Impossible to happen if Jerusalem is destroyed. Have a look at youtube user 'niksilvourbolt'. He done one of the most accurate vids on here regarding the subject as well as Walid Shoebat. Very good scripturally referenced study. We do agree on the catholic error though

[mtzion211]

@mrtreydaniels Thank you for posting! We are so far off on beliefs that I wouldn't know where to start. Anyhow, I wish you the best and many blessings of truth. GB

[mrtreydaniels]

@mtzion211 You gotta start somewhere bro. We live in very exciting times

[mtzion211]

@mrtreydaniels Thanks again but I used to believe that Revelation was about the future. Truth is that it is not about the future and there is nothing any more exciting about now then there was in the past.

[07braves]

@mtzion211 .. REV. is dealing with the church age. think on this,..the church fled into the wilderness in REV. 12..for they had the testimony of JESUS..now John goes back into the wilderness (where the church fled)..and he sees a whore. The largest church, the RCC system, had become a whore the same way Jerusalem had. This is why john was amazed..he couldnt believe it, if it was jerusalem ..he would have NOT been surprised. John used the name Jerusalem in REV. 21:2. no name for the whore!

[mrtreydaniels]

Hey mate. There are many harlots. The scriptures reference are geographically clear on the location of the 'biggest'(mother of all) whore. You will have difficulty with prophecy by starting with revelation. Lamentations 4. The whore and Jerusalem are two separate entities. Zach; 2:11 "Up escape to Zion! you who dwell in daughter babylon" Isaiah 13 and 21& 34 'Arabs' will not pitch their tent anymore, the splendor of Kedar, the prophecy against Arabia. Also antichrist also rules from jerusalem

[minnieothers]

I enjoyed your video on hell. It was nice to hear the truth about death for a change. However, I do believe that Rome is the beast of Revelation. Would you consider reading a short and powerful book that I found? It's called 'The National Sunday Law'. I think you will like it. Just give it a google and let me know what you think. Please don't be mean if you hate it ok?

[mtzion211]

@minnieothers Hello! I would not be mean to you because we disagree. I will look into what you suggest but my only issue is with what the scripture teaches directly. No scripture is of a private interpretation. We must use other scripture to understand. When we notice Mystery Babylon lose the voice of the bride and bridegroom, the sound of the trumpet and millstone, the voice of gladness.....these were things that Jerusalem had directly in Jeremiah of the OT. Also read Ezekiel 16..GB :)

[gerryboy101]

i agree

[MrJr0455]

The future its talking about is right now and if your a part of the Roman Catholic system you wont understand the Revelations

[mtzion211]

@MrJr0455 Thank you for posting. Revelation is not about the future. I am not a Roman Catholic. I am non-denominational. GB

[MrJr0455]

how is it first century jerusalem if revelations refers to the end times? makes no sense

[mtzion211]

@MrJr0455 Thank you for posting. The reason it makes no sense is because Revelation is not about the future or the end of the physical world. See other videos or channel. GB

[MrJr0455]

Dude is off :-/

[mtzion211]

@MrJr0455 Your opinion is welcome if you have one on the subject.

[Mechanized0]

@mtzion211)

The problem is that many individuals are preoccupied with absurd conspiracy theories as opposed to God's Word.

[mtzion211]

@Mechanized0 This is certainly true. People need to stick to the scriptures to find truth. GB

[gusman206]

I believe that you cannot place all of the book of revelation in the future as it does deal in places to the past, so I am not a futurist. likewise Preterism does not really explain or excludes prophetic revelation, which was a gift that has been given to man by God. If you are right I have nothing to lose, on the other hand if I am right you have everything to lose. God bless you, and i also believe that scripture explains scripture.

[gusman206]

which means that a man makes himself equal to God John 10:33 or in Luke 5:21 claiming to have the power to forgive sins. Did Jerusalem ever claim that, No.

This church is a persecuting power (verse 6), it put people to death because of their beliefs (Inquisition) and this church is wealthy beyond all recognition (verse 4) and finally all the world wonders after this church (verse 8). For me the evidence is overwhelming, there is no other church that fits all discribed please do not be offended.

[mtzion211]

@gusman206 Thank you for your posts. I am not offended because we disagree. I used to be a futurist about 12 years ago. I was a futurist then for about 10 years. I will say just a few things. 1) Jerusalem had the voice of the bride, bridegroom, trumpet, gladness, millstone (not the RCC). Mystery Babylon is a "city" not a church. This is in Rev 17. Our two main disagreements would be on overall perspective of the book of Revelation and my belief that scripture explains scripture. GB

[angiebahmad]

@mtzion211 when it says Babylon doesn't it mean Babylon as in Muslim nations as in Nebuchadnezzar 's Dream? Aren't they a type of religion that thinks they are worshippig God? But because they are not waiting for the right Bridegroom they are harloting themselves with a false god?

[gusman206]

Perdition and is destroyed by God. Let me just go through some symbols and meanings. Does the bible refer to the church as a woman? well yes Jer 6:2 Gal 4:26 etc. What does many waters mean? well rev 17:15 peoples, mulitudes, nations (plural) and tongues (languages) This church sits upon which means to have authority of over different nations, could the Jersusalem claim that, No.

This church has a unholy alliance between them and the rulers of the earth. Verse 2, this church commits blasphemy

[gusman206]

I hear what you say and revelation is a symbolic book but have to disagree with you. The Catholic church is the only power that fits the discreptions in chapters 17/18. I can also understand that if you are a catholic then obviously you would disagree. I will try to make this short. The point of chapter 17 is judgment, verse 1, Paul tells us that there remains a rest to the people of God Heb 4:9 so although you said that it refers to the Israelites or Jerusalem, this power goes to a final end

[Bingolly1]

I have a video up showing this same thing along with verses that support it. GB

[mtzion211]

@Bingolly1 Thank you very much my friend. I hope all is well with you! GB

[hillbillybushcraft]

By the way. Congratulations! I know it takes much study to understand this.

[hillbillybushcraft]

You are correct. Of course many will not understand. Sadly!