There is not enough of a scientific difference between a born and a unborn child to justify a legal differentiation that defines born individuals as existent and unborn individuals as nonexistant.
People think that "its the mothers choice". Well it is but if they had any sence that its wrong what there about to do then maybe they would think otherwise. Did u ever think that u could have been the same way? They want to live just like you..SO LET THEM. If you dont want the baby then put it up for adoption so that they can still live! Look at what the Bible says...thou shalt not kill...and for all the people out there who say its "only a fetus" or "its not a living thing" what are u thinking
Funny, I don't see any pro-lifers out there defending the seal pups who CAN"T DEFEND THEMSELVES against the needless and frivolous brutalization and murder with meathooks. But I wouldn't expect the "pro-life" lobby to care about that, they are only pro life where it suits their defined interests.
Hypocrite;
1. a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs
MikkalaTube: Here you go with the Dictionary again. I have come to think that you can't think for yourself at all without the help of your dictionary. I on the otherhand can express my words simply and plainly without using confusing terminology. Again, you don't make sense because just like most Pro-Choice people you have to mix in another issue like the seal pups just because you can't make a real stand on abortion. Besides I bet there are more pro-lifer's there that care then Pro-choicers.
"you have to mix in another issue like the seal pups just because you can't make a real stand on abortion."
I am opposed to this type of abortion. That said, I am open to the idea that the parties involved in the decision making, will be the final word regardless of what you or I think.
I could never be as fervently opposed to something as out of my control, and for such preposterous reasons moreover, as this. So in that sense I am pro-choice.
You can't even figure out who started what. You brought it up. What issue is distorted. Killing babies? I would rather take an issue and stand for protecting babies than be a fence sitter like you.
The problem with the evangelical position on abortion is simply that they willingly and arrogantly IGNORE every single piece of information we have on biology.
These seem to be the only people who are so perturbed by this. You don't hear anyone else whining and sniveling about these control issues....
It's only ever the dogmatics who bubble at the gapes and take it personally. And they call anyone arrogant who discredits scripture...LOL That's not arrogance, that's reasonability.
Your probelm is not that you misunderstand abortion, it is that you hate God. You are a sinner, depraved in understanding, and unless you are converted you will stand in judgement before a just and Holy God for your sins. You will answer for putting Him on trial. You must give up your narrow minded arrogant view of God's justice. Repent and believe the Gospel.
"Your probelm is not that you misunderstand abortion, it is that you hate God."
Apparently you also misunderstand it.
"Prospective studies using very sensitive early pregnancy tests have found that 25% of pregnancies are miscarried by the sixth week LMP (since the woman's Last Menstrual Period).- Wikipedia
And what of the kids that are unlucky enough to be born with horrific defects? What is God's special plan for these folks?
God aborts and contorts. Am I not to question this?
I do not believe that defending life makes me a bigot, anymore than William Wilberforce is a bigot for oppressing slave owners with his anti-slavery views.
Drop the "God is abortionist" bs, which you say is because God causes miscarriages. You would only know this to be fact if you knew God himself, but since you don't believe in God, you are stultifying your own argument. And even if you were operating within the realm of Christianity to try to prove the absurdity of the Christian claim you would also fail and lose because the Christian God is all-knowing, having a full view of all time.
This means that if he had the foreknowledge of the natural death of a fetus in miscarriage, he probably did not give that fetus a soul. If this is true, it does not justify abortion, because the person making the decision of getting an abortion is assuming that the baby will be born because it happens to be alive at the time when the abortion is being performed.
And even if God did give the baby a soul, his removal of that unborn child with a soul, from his all-knowing view, would certainly be in the best interest of that child. And even if it was not the optimum situation, God would still be completely just in his actions because he is the creator of that child. Besides, this may just be irrelevant garbage: God may not have any part in the miscarriage of any fetuses; they may be the result of human action/wrongdoing.
Lastly, this gets back to the issue of how sin entered the world. We (the human race, or Adam our representative) chose to sin and allow pain and suffering to enter the world. So a miscarriage could just be the symptom of our wrong choices and the cycle of sin that they perpetuate. You didnt blame God for the stale food you had last night (something bad) so why are you blaming him for miscarriages (also something bad).
And even if something seems just (or unjust) to you, this is just your conception of justice, which may be completely false because God may have given you a false notion of justice and even if you think that God giving you a false notion of justice is unjust, you might also be wrong (and God just) because youve been given a false notion of justice anyway.
Of course, all these arguments are from the Christian point of view with a presupposition of the Christian world being true, but thats the point: youve decided to argue upon Christian territory; if we operated on atheist territory, your argument would be dead before it started. And if you were just trying to make a point that belief in God is bad/stupid, that point has also been made null and void because the underlying assumption for that particular point has been removed.
The folks who claim "pro-life" are not pro life at all. They are anti-choice. Life is not an issue to these people, control of others is. Why does this life matter when the big show only happens after it?
Life; 1. the condition that distinguishes organisms from inorganic objects and dead organisms, being manifested by growth through metabolism, reproduction, and the power of adaptation to environment through changes originating internally.
Pro- Life is not about control of others it is about control of the ones that can't defend their right to live. You can put all of your wordsmithing definitions out there and the one thing that I will still ask any pro-choice person. Were you born? Then you were a life inside your mothers woom. If you ask me the Pro-Choice people are the ones that want to control. Control if an unborn baby dies or lives. Control if an unborn baby has a chance to make a life of their own or not. That's control.
MikkalaTube: The narrow thinking is from someone like you. Pro-Choice people refuse to even comment on the protection rights of the unborn baby. That is narrow mindedness. Pro-Choicer's use exuses of growing up in poverty and terrible conditions for the baby. You don't really think of the baby at all. That is the narrowmindedness. Your comment of Pro self is so ignorant because I myself support the babies rights. I'm not thinking of myself. You do think of your own feelings but NEVER THE BABIES.
Ok. You tell me how that unborn child can defend for themself? No matter what the circumstances of how that baby got there that baby CAN NOT DEFEND ITSELF!
I don't need to think about that. Then you come up with a real off beat question lie think carefully about that? So answer my question?
1. the condition that distinguishes organisms from inorganic objects and dead organisms, being manifested by growth through metabolism, reproduction, and the power of adaptation to environment through changes originating internally.
So when you say pro life, what are you really saying?
When are you going to give an answer from your own mind? You see you Pro-Choice people always want to give some scientific or dictionary answer. Science doesn't define life. You still can't honestly answer my previous question so I will ask it again but this time answer it intellegently not with some BS answer like you do. How can an unborn child defend themselves? Pro-Life to me means the Protection of Life. I will put my answer in simple form. That is something you don't know how to do!
You're right. Words define life. Useages define words. So given that, let's be very nice and crystal clear. Life, extends far beyond the scope of humanity. I can give you a million examples of life that can not defend itself.
Somehow, I don't think you could care less about that life. I don't think abortion is as easy fix-all if that's what you're assuming. The gravity of the choice is not easily articulated.
Words don't define life either. There are always words for each opinion. You have proven that because you keep answering with words that don't mean anything. You won't even answer a simple question. Did someone give you a new dictionary for your birthday and you are trying to shove it down everyones throats? You still won't answer the question. How can an unborn children defend themselves? I don't think that you will have the guts to answer it yourself. You just give some dictionary explanation.
Words are all that make us very slightly different from any creature. Given that, we know words can be the only thing that defines anything at all.
An unborn baby can not defend itself. I never made the claim that one could. One could not reasonably expect that it could. It can't even control it's bladder for several years after birth, how might it defend itself? God will intervene usually. Either with evangelicals, or spontaneous abortion.
"God will intervene usually. Either with evangelicals, or spontaneous abortion."
Evangelicals, generally do B&E's and leave propaganda/vandalize clinics. The odd fire bomb...The odd bullet in the skull etc...but damn it!! Fetuses were saved!
Spontaneous abortion, is a can't miss solution because it's spontaneous!! It's not god, or baby's problem!! Mom might never even know she was even preggie!!
God himself doesn't even really need to know about those ones...it's chance really...
God will intervene? God himself doesn't even really need to know? Wow you are really out there? God knows everything! What color is the sky in your world?
Words are all that make us different? I thought that we have reasoning the ability to use common sense and oh yes, we have opposing thumbs. I got some advice for you. Leave the Psychedelic drugs alone. You don't need any help in that area! By the way, God will intervene? GET OFF THE DRUGS. Your answers don't make any sense.
Reasoning didn't come from a dictionary. It came from God when he created the Animals and then Man. Read Genisis 1 again and maybe you will understand.
My answers don't regard your personal, and presumably, religiously informed opinion, as core to the argument.
The LIFE itself is.
So you either use the word "life" haphazardly, or you use it to suit yourself. Hence I call it self serving belief because in principle, your arguments don't serve life at all. Just a small selection of it, in the interests of self.
Either represent your position honestly, or "get off the drugs".
Do you care at all what the words you choose to use mean in terms of accepted useage?
We don't put together dictionaries for fun, we put them together so we can learnedly understand eachother clearly. I am not trying to insult your intelligence, and you are slinging petty chicken remarks at me.
I have not once defended abortion, but it shows, if you don't tow the party line, you may as well be the physician himself.
This whole idea of what we do is no big deal to God, is only coming from Bible illiteracy. Do you really think that it is God's will for people to have sex out of wedlock so that these children can be "knit together in their mother's womb" by God, so that we can end their life? If they are not alive yet then why do we seek to end the pregnancy? How do we end it? Perhaps the word "Duh" is appropriate. If a person is pregnant unwillingly, then perhaps that is God's judgement.
There is not enough of a scientific difference between a born and a unborn child to justify a legal differentiation that defines born individuals as existent and unborn individuals as nonexistant.
DavidUmstattd 10 months ago
People think that "its the mothers choice". Well it is but if they had any sence that its wrong what there about to do then maybe they would think otherwise. Did u ever think that u could have been the same way? They want to live just like you..SO LET THEM. If you dont want the baby then put it up for adoption so that they can still live! Look at what the Bible says...thou shalt not kill...and for all the people out there who say its "only a fetus" or "its not a living thing" what are u thinking
6timechamps09 2 years ago 2
Funny, I don't see any pro-lifers out there defending the seal pups who CAN"T DEFEND THEMSELVES against the needless and frivolous brutalization and murder with meathooks. But I wouldn't expect the "pro-life" lobby to care about that, they are only pro life where it suits their defined interests.
Hypocrite;
1. a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs
MikkalaTube 2 years ago
MikkalaTube: Here you go with the Dictionary again. I have come to think that you can't think for yourself at all without the help of your dictionary. I on the otherhand can express my words simply and plainly without using confusing terminology. Again, you don't make sense because just like most Pro-Choice people you have to mix in another issue like the seal pups just because you can't make a real stand on abortion. Besides I bet there are more pro-lifer's there that care then Pro-choicers.
bond519 2 years ago
"you have to mix in another issue like the seal pups just because you can't make a real stand on abortion."
The issue is LIFE!
Get that straight. You are mixing issues by omission.
MikkalaTube 2 years ago
MikkalaTube: Can you make a decision on anything? You bring up the seal pups then you say that I did. Like I said before:
STAY OFF OF THE PSYCHEDELIC DRUGS. YOU ARE NOT MAKING ANY SENSE.
bond519 2 years ago
"you have to mix in another issue like the seal pups just because you can't make a real stand on abortion."
I am opposed to this type of abortion. That said, I am open to the idea that the parties involved in the decision making, will be the final word regardless of what you or I think.
I could never be as fervently opposed to something as out of my control, and for such preposterous reasons moreover, as this. So in that sense I am pro-choice.
This issue is distorted by folks like you
MikkalaTube 2 years ago
You can't even figure out who started what. You brought it up. What issue is distorted. Killing babies? I would rather take an issue and stand for protecting babies than be a fence sitter like you.
bond519 2 years ago
"You can't even figure out who started what. "
You stated that the protection of life that is not capable of self defense was tantamount to the argument.
I gave an example of how you couldn't possibly mean what you're saying, or how you didn't understand the words you were choosing.
What is so hard to follow here?
MikkalaTube 2 years ago
The problem with the evangelical position on abortion is simply that they willingly and arrogantly IGNORE every single piece of information we have on biology.
These seem to be the only people who are so perturbed by this. You don't hear anyone else whining and sniveling about these control issues....
It's only ever the dogmatics who bubble at the gapes and take it personally. And they call anyone arrogant who discredits scripture...LOL That's not arrogance, that's reasonability.
MikkalaTube 3 years ago
Your probelm is not that you misunderstand abortion, it is that you hate God. You are a sinner, depraved in understanding, and unless you are converted you will stand in judgement before a just and Holy God for your sins. You will answer for putting Him on trial. You must give up your narrow minded arrogant view of God's justice. Repent and believe the Gospel.
bereansearch 3 years ago
"Your probelm is not that you misunderstand abortion, it is that you hate God."
Apparently you also misunderstand it.
"Prospective studies using very sensitive early pregnancy tests have found that 25% of pregnancies are miscarried by the sixth week LMP (since the woman's Last Menstrual Period).- Wikipedia
And what of the kids that are unlucky enough to be born with horrific defects? What is God's special plan for these folks?
God aborts and contorts. Am I not to question this?
MikkalaTube 3 years ago
Repent and believe the Gospel!
bereansearch 3 years ago
"Repent and believe the Gospel! "
Believe isn't something that I can do purely as an act of will. I need a relevant reason to believe a proposition.
MikkalaTube 3 years ago
I do not believe that defending life makes me a bigot, anymore than William Wilberforce is a bigot for oppressing slave owners with his anti-slavery views.
bereansearch 3 years ago
"I do not believe that defending life makes me a bigot,"
1. You overlook the definite usage of the word "life"
2. You are not defending life, you are attempting to impose a narrow belief system.
According to the stats, God himself is apparently the most prolific abortionist in all of history. So this can't possibly be a "life" issue.
It only should follow that "life" include ALL life. Not just the "life" you deem important.
Like I said ; Anti-choice. Be honest at bare least.
MikkalaTube 3 years ago
Drop the "God is abortionist" bs, which you say is because God causes miscarriages. You would only know this to be fact if you knew God himself, but since you don't believe in God, you are stultifying your own argument. And even if you were operating within the realm of Christianity to try to prove the absurdity of the Christian claim you would also fail and lose because the Christian God is all-knowing, having a full view of all time.
Lion3Lamb 2 years ago
This means that if he had the foreknowledge of the natural death of a fetus in miscarriage, he probably did not give that fetus a soul. If this is true, it does not justify abortion, because the person making the decision of getting an abortion is assuming that the baby will be born because it happens to be alive at the time when the abortion is being performed.
Lion3Lamb 2 years ago
And even if God did give the baby a soul, his removal of that unborn child with a soul, from his all-knowing view, would certainly be in the best interest of that child. And even if it was not the optimum situation, God would still be completely just in his actions because he is the creator of that child. Besides, this may just be irrelevant garbage: God may not have any part in the miscarriage of any fetuses; they may be the result of human action/wrongdoing.
Lion3Lamb 2 years ago
Lastly, this gets back to the issue of how sin entered the world. We (the human race, or Adam our representative) chose to sin and allow pain and suffering to enter the world. So a miscarriage could just be the symptom of our wrong choices and the cycle of sin that they perpetuate. You didnt blame God for the stale food you had last night (something bad) so why are you blaming him for miscarriages (also something bad).
Lion3Lamb 2 years ago
And even if something seems just (or unjust) to you, this is just your conception of justice, which may be completely false because God may have given you a false notion of justice and even if you think that God giving you a false notion of justice is unjust, you might also be wrong (and God just) because youve been given a false notion of justice anyway.
Lion3Lamb 2 years ago
Of course, all these arguments are from the Christian point of view with a presupposition of the Christian world being true, but thats the point: youve decided to argue upon Christian territory; if we operated on atheist territory, your argument would be dead before it started. And if you were just trying to make a point that belief in God is bad/stupid, that point has also been made null and void because the underlying assumption for that particular point has been removed.
Lion3Lamb 2 years ago
The folks who claim "pro-life" are not pro life at all. They are anti-choice. Life is not an issue to these people, control of others is. Why does this life matter when the big show only happens after it?
Life; 1. the condition that distinguishes organisms from inorganic objects and dead organisms, being manifested by growth through metabolism, reproduction, and the power of adaptation to environment through changes originating internally.
Bigots need to choose words more honestly.
MikkalaTube 3 years ago
Pro- Life is not about control of others it is about control of the ones that can't defend their right to live. You can put all of your wordsmithing definitions out there and the one thing that I will still ask any pro-choice person. Were you born? Then you were a life inside your mothers woom. If you ask me the Pro-Choice people are the ones that want to control. Control if an unborn baby dies or lives. Control if an unborn baby has a chance to make a life of their own or not. That's control.
bond519 2 years ago
"it is about control of the ones that can't defend their right to live. "
It's very telling of the mindset to me, of how you can make that statement and not realize the logical implications of it.
"the ones that can't defend their right to live."
I see nothing but a very very narrow view of what that means from "pro lifers"
I see nothing but a self serving view of what that means.
I see everything aside from what it truly means. Not a pro life stance, but pro self.
MikkalaTube 2 years ago
MikkalaTube: The narrow thinking is from someone like you. Pro-Choice people refuse to even comment on the protection rights of the unborn baby. That is narrow mindedness. Pro-Choicer's use exuses of growing up in poverty and terrible conditions for the baby. You don't really think of the baby at all. That is the narrowmindedness. Your comment of Pro self is so ignorant because I myself support the babies rights. I'm not thinking of myself. You do think of your own feelings but NEVER THE BABIES.
bond519 2 years ago
"the ones that can't defend their right to live."
I encourage you to think carefully about what this means, with no regard to any system of belief. Please.
MikkalaTube 2 years ago
Ok. You tell me how that unborn child can defend for themself? No matter what the circumstances of how that baby got there that baby CAN NOT DEFEND ITSELF!
I don't need to think about that. Then you come up with a real off beat question lie think carefully about that? So answer my question?
bond519 2 years ago
I'll give you a hint.
Life;
1. the condition that distinguishes organisms from inorganic objects and dead organisms, being manifested by growth through metabolism, reproduction, and the power of adaptation to environment through changes originating internally.
So when you say pro life, what are you really saying?
MikkalaTube 2 years ago
When are you going to give an answer from your own mind? You see you Pro-Choice people always want to give some scientific or dictionary answer. Science doesn't define life. You still can't honestly answer my previous question so I will ask it again but this time answer it intellegently not with some BS answer like you do. How can an unborn child defend themselves? Pro-Life to me means the Protection of Life. I will put my answer in simple form. That is something you don't know how to do!
bond519 2 years ago
"Science doesn't define life."
You're right. Words define life. Useages define words. So given that, let's be very nice and crystal clear. Life, extends far beyond the scope of humanity. I can give you a million examples of life that can not defend itself.
Somehow, I don't think you could care less about that life. I don't think abortion is as easy fix-all if that's what you're assuming. The gravity of the choice is not easily articulated.
I just want some consistent philosophy.
MikkalaTube 2 years ago
Words don't define life either. There are always words for each opinion. You have proven that because you keep answering with words that don't mean anything. You won't even answer a simple question. Did someone give you a new dictionary for your birthday and you are trying to shove it down everyones throats? You still won't answer the question. How can an unborn children defend themselves? I don't think that you will have the guts to answer it yourself. You just give some dictionary explanation.
bond519 2 years ago
"Words don't define life either."
Words are all that make us very slightly different from any creature. Given that, we know words can be the only thing that defines anything at all.
An unborn baby can not defend itself. I never made the claim that one could. One could not reasonably expect that it could. It can't even control it's bladder for several years after birth, how might it defend itself? God will intervene usually. Either with evangelicals, or spontaneous abortion.
MikkalaTube 2 years ago
"God will intervene usually. Either with evangelicals, or spontaneous abortion."
Evangelicals, generally do B&E's and leave propaganda/vandalize clinics. The odd fire bomb...The odd bullet in the skull etc...but damn it!! Fetuses were saved!
Spontaneous abortion, is a can't miss solution because it's spontaneous!! It's not god, or baby's problem!! Mom might never even know she was even preggie!!
God himself doesn't even really need to know about those ones...it's chance really...
MikkalaTube 2 years ago
God will intervene? God himself doesn't even really need to know? Wow you are really out there? God knows everything! What color is the sky in your world?
bond519 2 years ago
Words are all that make us different? I thought that we have reasoning the ability to use common sense and oh yes, we have opposing thumbs. I got some advice for you. Leave the Psychedelic drugs alone. You don't need any help in that area! By the way, God will intervene? GET OFF THE DRUGS. Your answers don't make any sense.
bond519 2 years ago
"I thought that we have reasoning the ability to use common sense and oh yes, we have opposing thumbs."
That reasoning ability you speak of, where do you suppose it's rooted?
How does one reason without an instinct for language?
MikkalaTube 2 years ago
Reasoning didn't come from a dictionary. It came from God when he created the Animals and then Man. Read Genisis 1 again and maybe you will understand.
bond519 2 years ago
"It came from God when he created the Animals and then Man."
Words are man made. This is known fact.
MikkalaTube 2 years ago
"Your answers don't make any sense."
My answers don't regard your personal, and presumably, religiously informed opinion, as core to the argument.
The LIFE itself is.
So you either use the word "life" haphazardly, or you use it to suit yourself. Hence I call it self serving belief because in principle, your arguments don't serve life at all. Just a small selection of it, in the interests of self.
Either represent your position honestly, or "get off the drugs".
MikkalaTube 2 years ago
"You just give some dictionary explanation."
Do you care at all what the words you choose to use mean in terms of accepted useage?
We don't put together dictionaries for fun, we put them together so we can learnedly understand eachother clearly. I am not trying to insult your intelligence, and you are slinging petty chicken remarks at me.
I have not once defended abortion, but it shows, if you don't tow the party line, you may as well be the physician himself.
MikkalaTube 2 years ago
um, yeah. sure. that makes a lot of sense, NOT
supaphreak2045 2 years ago
This whole idea of what we do is no big deal to God, is only coming from Bible illiteracy. Do you really think that it is God's will for people to have sex out of wedlock so that these children can be "knit together in their mother's womb" by God, so that we can end their life? If they are not alive yet then why do we seek to end the pregnancy? How do we end it? Perhaps the word "Duh" is appropriate. If a person is pregnant unwillingly, then perhaps that is God's judgement.
bereansearch 3 years ago