Stop with your stupid shipping. This theme is absolutely beautiful. Stop. You're ruining it. The emotion and climax when Cloud sees Aerith turn around in the movie and you just picture it in your head is a moment that gets me to tears every single time, so stop for once jesus christ and enjoy the theme. I get into shipping debates myself, but on here? This is ridiculous.
i wonder how cloud would be as a person if such tragedy did not happen to him( zack fair's death and aerith's death) both tragedies which cloud was unable to prevent the situation at the time. the story definately will not have as deep as an impact, but just wondering what will happen if they were alive. zack and cloud will be unstoppable as a team
I was always imagining the instruments playing in my mind with ear phones, and now the vivid images of the wonderful complementary from the violins, doubles basses, oboes and flutes, and last but not least the piano will always play in my mind.
when i small,my bro is playing the final fantasy.when i become big he still playing the final fantasy series.haha bt the final fantasy series so good and nice.
;D *happy cries* when i first heard this i loved it :) .... so wish i could of gone but like a lot of people ... lack of money .. but ill try and go in the future ( thats if there is gonna be one when i finally get money together) :D
@kilky04: Who would Zack get if Cloud took Aerith anyway... Not Tifa for sure, she spat her hatred for SOLDIER in his face... and they never knew each other anyway... Zack was Aerith's first bf anyway, it'd be messed up for Cloud to come by and steal her.
@kilky04 True, true. People forget Aeris didn't really like Cloud she only was fond towards him because he pretty much reminded her of Zack so her and Zack were always meant to be (made obvious by Crisis Core) and Tifa has always had a thing for Cloud since childhood whilst Cloud isn't the most open person but he does have a soft spot for Tifa as well.
hardr0ck....what points are you trying to make exactly? You keep going on about how C/T can't be proven. If only because you set an extraordinarily high (and shifting) standard for them. Then you throw in these lines about how Cloud did have feelings for Aerith. When someone calls you on it you insist that it's not what were talking about. Plus you seem to be making facts up at random.
One more thing. Cloud did not get Geostigma until AFTER he went off to find a cure for Denzel.
... fine whatever. I tire of this anyway. it's not that important to me.
i mean, i feel i gave a quite reasonable argument saying that all you're doing is simply assuming cloud and tifa are together. And since you constantly refuse to believe that, then we're never going to find a common ground and i'm wasting my time talking to you.
If by "high standard" you mean OFFICIALLY dating, then that's ridiculous. You don't get a girlfriend unless you ask her to be, bro.
Man, you have no idea of how I'm feeling right now. Let's just say I'm looking forward to that drink down the pub.
Well, Cloti is certainly no more assumption than Clerith, and Cloti has that ultimania quote of "realised their feelings for each other" which can only really be romantic. That's the main reason I disagree that Cloti is assumption, it's stated, clear as day, in official SE material
I understand your standards but Cloud and Tifa still have a romance going on.
yes yes yes, i know all that, we've already discussed that.
you're just overlooking the fact that they're not officially together. i mean, i must've said that like 10 times already. if like a girl, and she likes me too, but we haven't actually agreed to date, then we're not in a relationship, regardless of how i feel about her. i don't mean to point out the obvious but it seems you're just not getting it.
So because you never see C/T go out on a date they simply cannot be in a relationship?
Brilliant logic.
My cousin moved in with a girl last year. I have never seen this woman. So of course by your standard for C/T they obviously cannot be in a relationship.
my suggestion still stands. delete your youtube account. turn off your computer. and go back to school. and don't be surprised if the short bus comes to pick you up.
Yes you set an arbitrarily high standard for a C/T relationship.
Two people who realize their feelings for each other, move in together and start a family under ANY reasonable standard would be considered a couple.
It doesn't need proving. It would have to be specifically poitned out that it is not a relationship. And guess what? Those quotes don't exist in the movie or in any statement by the creators.
But I do so enjoy your non-points. The best of which is-"C/T CANNOT BE PROVEN...but of course Cloud loved Aerith".
Tell you what. I'll ask one more time. Show me anything official that says two people who realize their feels for each other, move in together and raise a family are not a couple.
We just should stop discussing about tifa/cloud/aerith...
in my point of view, cloud liked aerith, but since aerith's dead, he doesnt want to keep living remembering those painful memories, (coz its impossible to resurrect the dead one.) he just try to live happily with Tifa... but in any part of FFvll shows that Cloud and tifa are sharing mutual feelings
Except, if he did like her, then why did he immediately move on with Tifa less than a month later and only later begin to seek the dead woman's forgiveness?
Also, Hardrock, you get on Vendel for making 'one liner comments' and then ignore all his actual points.
When Barret leaves on his walkabout, Cloud, Tifa, and Marlene are 'the family of three'. When Denzel, obviously their child and C and T his replacement parents, they become the family of four.
"and Aerith is the only scene that has dialogue when they're on the gondola"
Epic Fail.
"Cloud and Tifa living together and raising children together?"
Yes. Starting right after the game Cloud tells Tifa his new life will be with her. After the bar is built Barret leaves and C/T raise Marlene. They find Denzel and ADOPT him.
By the time of CoD they have been living together as a family unit for the better part of 4 years. They are called family all over the place in official sources.
If you're just going to toss out stupid one liners like "epic fail" and think you're engaging in a proper discussion, I suggest you delete your youtube account, turn off your computer and go back to school.
Totally. Because the beginning of AC, Cloud wakes up and takes a shower while Tifa hits the snooze button, and the dog starts barking, and Marlene and Denzel are eating cereal downstairs getting ready for school.
"Whoever it was I was originally talking to claimed there was no romance between Cloud and Aerith"
Still waiting for that romance btw.
"People see Cloud and Tifa and immediately think ZOMG LOVE." I know it's crazy seeign two people living together raising two children and think they might love one another as more than "just friends"
The entire discussion is ridiculous. Held to any reasonable standard C/T are an obvious couple.
I already dealt with this argument. look for my comment."
It's not an argument. It's not up for debate. Cloud and Tifa are raising Marlen and Denzel. They consider them their children. They are called a family by official sources more than once. They added in new scenes for ACC that deal directly with the issue of family.
Last time I checked, children don't call their parents by their first names, like Marlene and Denzel refer to Cloud.
Perhaps Tifa considers them their children, but Cloud shows absolutely no affection to them whatsoever, other than that he felt an obligation to save them from Kadaj and find a way to cure geostigma.
Seriously. If you don't think this is something up for debate, then GTFO this discussion. You're not really offering anything useful anyway.
"The present Tifa isnt just Clouds childhood friend, but also the mother of the family they were forming in Edge."
"The more he realizes how happy he is living with Tifa and the children, the more the fear of losing that and regrets toward the past trouble Cloud.With the support of former allies and Tifa, an important woman to him and now also part of his family, Cloud regains the courage to move forward."
Granted you bring up a good point (finally...), let's discuss this, shall we?
Cloud and Tifa were raising two kids together. Okay, fact.
Cloud and Tifa were playing husband & wife while raising these kids. Entirely your opinion. These kids are their mutual responsibility, so of course they'd take care of them together.
By AC (which is later than the quotes you provided), Cloud is estranged from this "family" and clearly has NOT entirely "moved forward". How canonical are these quotes?
They're canon because they're stated by official SE materials. =)
I don't know about "playing husband and wife", but they are certainly playing mother and father, especially to Denzel. It's just not often you have opposite sex best friends doing this, not unheard of, but still, when you consider Tifa's feelings for Cloud, and their conversation at the beginning of CoT in which Cloud appears to be expressing romantic interest, it becomes a logical assumption that it's part of their relationship.
2.The quotes take place at different times. The first one is a general statement. The second is about Cloud's motivation for leaving before AC and the third is about how Cloud overcomes his problems during AC.
3.Mutual friends do not raise multiple children together. You have to prove that.. Otherwise 99% of the time people will assume the 'parents' are in a relationship.
That is what I mean by a reasonable standard for the C/T relationship.
I read the link raquel sent me, and from what I read, that last bit does not clearly indicate it's referring to AC. That's just your interpretation of it.
By saying that as well, you're agreeing that Cloud hadn't moved on until AC? Meaning he hadn't moved on with Tifa.... yet.
They live together in Case of Tifa after the events of the original game, so they must have of "realised their feelings" before this during FFVII. How else can you interpret that?
Moved on from his guilt and sins, including the death of Aerith. You just simply can't turn this into a relationships drama when it's all about forgiveness and guilt.
i seriously feel like we're just going in circles because you constantly forget everything I mention and bring old stuff up again.
By AC (which is the latest installment as far as chronology in the FF7 world goes), Cloud and Tifa aren't together. Cloud seems completely estranged from this "family" you paint, and the fact that Tifa didn't even know Cloud had geostigma speaks volumes of a lack of intimacy.
It's clear Cloud has letting go issues that don't get resolved til the end of AC. (cont)
Now, we already know Cloud had feelings for Aerith before she died. Seriously. The Project Director of FF7 Yoshinori Kitase has said that, in the early stages of the game production, the inclusion of Tifa's character was mainly to have a love triangle w/ Cloud being torn between Aerith and Tifa.
But I thought everyone knew that. You seriously don't think Cloud EVER was interested in Aerith?? Come on.
Actually I think the Jenova-influenced Cloud may have had an interest in her but once he became his true self again he was caught on Tifa again as he remembered his feelings for her.
regardless. Not to mention that's purely speculation.
What about feelings on Aerith's part? It would've been all the same to her.
Also, where in the game did it specifically say Cloud had romantic feelings for Tifa when they were young? All we know is Cloud wasn't part of the cool clique Tifa was in and he wanted to be. It's even clear that the meeting Tifa and Cloud had (the promise) was unusual, since they weren't really close. (cont)
i doubt that, but you're welcome to provide a link to an official source.
Tifa said in the original game that it was when Cloud left that she actually started thinking about him more and more, so that's when she developed feelings for him. So it would be inaccurate to call them "childhood crushes". And like I said, all we know is that Cloud wanted to be accepted into the cool kids group that Tifa was a part of.
Reading anything more into that is a complete romanticisation on your part.
I'm having a hard time finding an exact quote - all i'm getting are paraphrases and the like (b/c he said it in japanese), but this is taken from wiki:
"having two concurrent heroines and the protagonist torn between them was something Kitase liked"
this was used to reference as to why Tifa's character was added so late into production of the game.
Vaan and Basch were also switched round as the main character late in the production of FFXII but that doesn't make Vaan's role of main character suddenly redundant.
Tifa was added later, yes, but that doesn't mean you can ignore what she is now. Which is the childhood crush, the emotional support and now the mother to Cloud's family and the girl that he's living with.
Obviously she gained a huge role from being added last minute so she must be imporant regardless.
i'm not really trying to say Tifa's character isn't an important character in the FF7 story, I'm just pointing out that it was their intention to have a romantic triangle between Cloud, Tifa, and Aerith.
Therefore, we can say that Cloud and Aerith did share romantic feelings at one point. It was the intention of the game designers.
Just because there's a love triangle it doesn't mean that the male must have feelings for both females by default.
Another thing about the love triangle is that it's player choice so nothing that happens as a result of it (on the first disc) is actually "canon". It's only the scenes that occur anyway that say anything about what's canon and in the case of FFVII, Tifa gets the unavoidable romanticly suggestive scenes e.g. the lifestream sequence and the highwind scene (high or low).
Yet some children do. Just like I call my grandmother by her first name while apparently that's weird because everyone else calls their grandmas granny or whatever. That just doesn't suddenly mean she isn't my grandma, or I don't see her that way.
IamVendel has provided some good quotes regarding how Cloud sees Denzel and Marlene, and which also demonstrate it really is a family Cloud sees them all as.
And like I said, parallels have been put up between Cloud and Tifa and Denzel's parents.
lol. you bring up a HUGE exception and claim that's an argument.
In Advent Children, examine the scenes between Cloud and Denzel. In My Opinion (and I believe you'd see this too if you watched it over again), Cloud and Denzel's interaction doesn't look anything like a father/son relationship would, especially from the "big happy family" image you so readily paint. You see a lot of hesitation and uncertainty in trust w/ Denzel towards Cloud. Why would you say that is?
Because Cloud left. Hence why in ACC he says "you wouldn't leave us would you?".
Do you mind giving some examples? Because Cloud's promise to return to 7th Heaven, him holding Denzel's hand, him saving Denzel along with Tifa, him looking to Denzel's picture, him concerning himself with finding a cure for him, him curing his geostigma, Denzel imitating Cloud's limit break, Cloud taking him to visit Zack's grave and thier pose in the ending pic are all father-son suggestive.
"In Advent Children, examine the scenes between Cloud and Denzel."
In advent Children Complete watch the interactions between Cloud with Denzel and Marlene.
If you haven't seen it that is one thing. But if you have I don't know how you can ignore the multiple added scenes in ACC. Put there just to highlight Cloud being fatherly and his concern for his children.
I'd like to point out that your argument against this has been sucessfully rebuttaled. Therefore, you must either bring forth a new and better argument or accept defeat on the subject.
If only you were right... then we'd all be absolutely sure on one thing.
Clearly you didn't even know what I was arguing, since you kept bringing up Aerith. I responded to the points IamVendel made.
Seriously though. Is it that hard to believe that MAYBE you're wrong and Cloud and Tifa have not been a couple? And if you insist on bringing up Aerith constantly, do you not believe Cloud was ever romantically interested in Aerith? At all?
I'm not sure who you're responding to, but ignoring the "is Cloud in a relationship" question, the main thing we are debating is whether Cloud loves Tifa and just Tifa, or if he loves Aerith and only Aerith.
well no, because clearly there'd be no point to that argument. Aerith is dead. I mean, why would I argue that? It's clear by the end of AC and in the game Crisis Core that the writers want the fans to move on with the Aerith/Cloud thing - Aerith is supposedly doing fine now living with Zack in a bright, white room somewhere.
Personally I think that's lame, because I WAS a C/A fan, but Aerith is dead.
Tifa and Cloud are something we can look forward to someday.
Does he love her now? Maybe, but he hasn't showed it yet. Maybe he's just one of those guys that needs some space. Even if you argue little subtleties in his actions in AC, he doesn't do anything like jump out into outerspace after Tifa and have a Faye Wong song play.
When that day comes, we can go to the pub and reminisce about when we first played FF7. How's that sound?
Case of Tifa indicates enough of his love, or at least romantic interest in her. Ultimania quotes just serve to further support that they love each other (and that's why they're together).
No, but you don't see Balthier doing that for Fran, Vaan doing that for Penelo or Cid doing that for Shera (he only seems to slag her off in the game).
It's possible, but there's no proof he was. Just baseless supposition.
And yes, it's arguably possible Cloud and Tifa are somehow NOT romantically linked, but that's a patently absurd notion given their known past feelings for each other, that these feelings are mutual, that Cloud asked her to be with him, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.
By all reasonable standard, they are together and raising two kids together, one in lieu of her own dad, the other as their own.
it's a reasonable assumption, no argument for that on my part. But as long as you recognize the fact that it's an assumption. And thinking otherwise is definitely NOT absurd. I really hope you're not interested in hearing me explain why by disputing what you said: "known past feelings" (not.), "cloud asked her to be with him" (definitely not true), etc. etc. etc.
At least you're willing to acknowledge that C/T is an assumption. IamVendel and raquelborn could learn a thing or two from you.
Hang on. In Crisis Core it's made clear that Cloud had a crush on Tifa and she had a crush on him. It's also been stated they had secret love for each other.
After this I think Ill be okay.
Cloud was silent for a long time before he spoke again.
Because I have you this time.
Youve always had me.
What I mean is kind of different, Cloud answered with another smile.
~They were friends before so Cloud must be talking about another way of being together...a relationship.
I'm arguing that he loves her because he does, they have mutual feelings. I'm not saying it's iron clad fact that they're in a relationship, but the quote is pretty suggestive. Why else would they add the "live together at the end of the story" to the sentence.
Don't act like the gondola scene wasn't purposely written to be "romantic". Aerith even called it a date. And you're totally playing dumb by saying that all she said was she's been looking for Zack and you know it.
Perhaps you're right about the "memory or us" line, but provide a link so we're both sure.
Provide me a line from the Lifestream scene where Cloud "admits his feelings for Tifa" (in the romantic sense). And don't freakin' give me some ambiguous line and say it's obvious.
By the gondola scene, you mean the date scene right? Well that scene was optional, just like it was opitional to take Tifa on a date instead. Yet, in Reminiscence they chose to use Tifa's scene and not Aerith's, which is interesting.. The scene is also called interupted by fireworks and Tifa is the only one who is interupted.
I can't remember the exact line, but it goes something like "Cloud and Tifa came to realise their mutual feelings for each other".
true, the date scene was optional. You could even get Barrett to go on a date with you. Does that mean Cloud and Barrett had a thing? =P
Of all those options, though, you had to TRY to get Tifa or Barrett, whereas, if you play normally, you get the Aerith scene, and Aerith is the only scene that has dialogue when they're on the gondola, which i think makes it safe to assume that's what's considered to be part of the intended story.
I don't remember that line from the lifestream scene.
Indeed, which is my point, why are you using an optional scene as support for C/A if you can see how flawed that is.
Yes that's true, yet it was Tifa's date Square Enix decided to use for Reminiscence on the AC DVD. They obviously felt Tifa's date was more important to the story. And as an interesting side note, you can also push Tifa's affection levels to higher than Aerith's before she even appears, provided you're nice to her.
I believe it's in the Dirge of Cerberus guide book.
Tifa and Cloud was made for each other, and Aerith was made for ZACK!!!!!!!!! Lots of people just said Cloud and Tifa don't like each other. If that's you, where have you been? The Moon?
Tifa and Cloud never had any "romance" anywhere in FFVII and only hinted at one in AC. Please, they're just friends, as far as we know. Cloud and Aerith had much more of a romance.
A romance was Squall and Rinoa. not Cloud and Tifa.
Everything you said about Cloud, Tifa and Aerith is wrong. For it to be right you would have to ignore the lifestream event and the Highwind scene. And invent "romance" for C/A.
BTW this piece was written for the smile Cloud gives Tifa at the end of the movie.
Cloud and Aerith? The scene at the Golden Saucer when they were on the Gondola. Or how about in AC when Tifa tells cloud he's holding onto a memory? Or the whole dramatic scene where Cloud buries Aerith?
Now, the scene in the lifestream had no implications of "romance". Tifa was just trying to find a childhood friend. Please, don't mistake friendship for romance.
At least Aerith admitted to have ROMANTIC feelings for Cloud. Did Tifa ever? (I didn't think so.)
you're disgusting. a disgusting excuse for an intelligent life form.
taking the time out to bury someone is a sign that that person meant something to you. when your mom dies, you're not gonna toss her in trash bin, are you?
No one is arguing with you that Cloud cared about Aerith. You're throwing out arguments that are supposed to show he cared for her romantically, and you threw out that he buried her. How does that prove he loves her romantically?
who was providing arguments? you certainly weren't. you were talking crap like "burying a body is fucking disgusting" and now you're trying to get into some discussion late and criticizing what I said.
Whoever it was I was originally talking to claimed there was no romance between Cloud and Aerith. So you're wrong - someone was disputing that subject.
Tifa asks Cloud if he loves her. I think that makes it pretty obvious, not like all her actions thus far went enough to make it unmistakably love on her part anyway.
There's also drama when Cloud finds Tifa in the church, he freaks out like hell and she isn't even dead. And yet, no one claims this scene is outrightly romantic, so why should Aerith's death be.
Yes I agree the lifestream scene was not romantic. However the Ultimania quote stating Tifa as the only one he's opened his heart to is.
Look. Obvious is Squall and Rinoa. Not so obvious is Cloud and Tifa. I have no problem with the idea of the two romantically involved, it's just that THEY'RE NOT, from what we've seen. Sure, they dance around the subject, but they're not together.
I think people keep overlooking the fact that Cloud and Tifa grew up together and made promises as kids, which is why they have such a close connection and care about each other. People see Cloud and Tifa and immediately think ZOMG LOVE.
Squall and Rinoa is also more obvious than Cloud and Aerith, so that's not much of a point.
Well they're obviously more than friends by any standards. Relationship? Maybe, maybe not, Nomura keeps dancing around it. But are there mutual romantic feelings between them? From what I've seen and read, yes, it certainly appears so. Afterall Tifa definitely loves Cloud romantically and since they "came to realise their mutual feelings" for one another it can't be made much clearer than that.
Again, I have no problem with Cloud and Tifa. The only reason I mention Squall and Rinoa is to give an example of an actual romance vs Cloud & Tifa, which is pretty much speculation. C/A is a different story altogether.
I dare say most if not all Tifa's actions towards Cloud are entirely ambiguous, and can be interpreted both as romantic feelings or close, intimate friend feelings.
I'd be completely happy to see Cloud and Tifa get somewhere. But they just haven't yet. All I'm saying.
C/A is pretty much speculation too. Cloud and Tifa even act like a couple in AC/C, we don't get this with C/A. Cloud and Tifa are even said to have mutual feelings for each other, again, we don't get this with C/A. I could go on.
"Do you love me?" knocks that on the nail though. She loves him like that, and that's usually not even something people bother to debate because it's so obvious.
Well they are living together and raising children together, I'd say they've come quite far.
C/A wasn't speculation. She simply died before they could've gotten anywhere. That's why her death was so tragic and the scene when he buries her plays well dramatically.
Cloud and Tifa "act" like a couple in AC...? I would disagree. Sounds more like opinion. If Cloud and Tifa were so intimate, how did she not even know he had geostigma?
Cloud and Tifa are said to have mutual feelings? Said by whom? You keep saying that, but casually ignore when I ask you for a link from whatever source.
That is also speculation since you can't prove anything was going to happen. What you have done their though is admit nothing did happen while she was alive. It's also worth keeping in mind Cloud was not completely himself, he was being influence by Jenova cells and carried some of the character of Zack (who loved her himself). Once Cloud was himself again (and had realised his feelings for Tifa) I doubt any possible romance would of bloomed as he would now be a slightly different person.
interesting point, however that fails when we see Cloud in AC still dreaming about Aerith, saying things like "I want to be forgiven". Granted, that could just be speculated as him feeling guilty he couldn't have prevented her death, but if you ask me, that shouldn't haunt someone as much as it does Cloud if he never had any personal feelings attached, as well as lingering ones.
I still have a hard time recalling where and when it was that Cloud specifically "realised his feelings for Tifa".
Yes she meant a lot to him, just like Zack meant a lot to him. But the difference is how Cloud feels he 'let' Aerith die and is now letting this drag him down since he feels helpless anyway (geostigma).
If it was about romantic feelings you'd expect him to say something like "I wish I could bring you back" or "I wish you were here". Instead there's heavy emphasis on him wanting forgiveness; to have the ability to move on essentially.
At the lifestream event, even possibly the highwind.
You're right, Cloud doesn't say "i wish I could bring you back". He says "i want to be forgiven". And I believe you're right - he wants to be able to completely move on. Meaning, he hasn't moved on yet. Meaning, his lingering feelings has kept him from letting go of her. Meaning, he hasn't entirely opened up to Tifa yet.
Well then thank you, my work here is done. That's all I've been saying. I'm glad we agree.
Move on from his sins and past failures. Just like Tifa had to move on from hers and eventually achieved this by resolving to give as much as she could (which included adopting Denzel). Barrett similarly resolved to go travelling. Cloud just needed to forgive himself.
I don't see how you made the leap to romantic feelings from that. Unless, that isn't in fact what you're arguing. If not, we are in a kind of agreement.
The 'argument' scene is one example. They were like a married couple there. That maybe my point of view (and a POV of many other viewers I may add) but Rude and Reno look pretty uncomfortable if they're only listening in on a BFF tiff.
Cloud explains why in Case of Tifa, he can't approach her sometimes. He also says to Marlene he didn't feel he could even protect himself, in other words he felt like an utter failure, hence his leaving.
It's from the Crisis Core Ultimania. I'll PM you the link.
Cloud and Tifa living together and raising children together?
Cloud had been living with Tifa since she found him all messed up in the head at the train station. He had nowhere to go. So living together means nothing.
Raising children together? more like looking after orphaned kids.
Come on... Just admit that there's no obvious and official romance between Cloud and Tifa. They're not married or dating are they?
Except now they're living together on their own with their "family" that "they were building in Edge" (direct quote). It's also now a case of Cloud wanting to live with Tifa, there's no obligation to friendship involved.
Yes, so raising children. Cloud and Tifa are paralleled with Denzel's parents which is most noticible once you watch the CoD anime. Tifa is also the "mother" of Cloud's family. SE are very keen to bring this idea across.
Lol. They love each other, Cloud loves her. That's all that I'm concerned about. Going into the specifics of whether they're actually in an 'official' relationship I'll leave up to Cloti forums.
They don't, but this never happens between Aeirth and Cloud either, so yet again, that's an unhelpful point.
What we do have for Cloud and Tifa is them "realising their mutual feelings" as stated in the Crisis Core Ultimania, of which I sent you a link to. Cloud and Aerith lack a comparable quote to this.
would you stop acting like we're arguing whether Cloud's supposed to be with Aerith or Tifa? WE'RE NOT. I ALREADY KNOW CLOUD AND AERITH WERE NEVER A COUPLE, AND I DON'T REMEMBER SAYING THEY WERE.
All I'm saying is, Tifa and Cloud weren't either. So stop bringing up Aerith with some ridiculous logic thinking "if cloud wasn't with one, then he must've been with the other".
My name is Kevin. I'm a 16 year old composer. Nobuo Uematsu is a huge inspiration to my music. I would love for everyone to visit my channel and view the work available. Thank you to everyone!
Sephiroth:..Don't worry,soon she will be part of the planet's energy...and I will got to the Northen Cave to reunite with my plan-
Cloud:SHUT UP!I don't care about your plans,what about my feelings!My hands are tingling,my mouth is dry(or something like that)Aerith won't cry,won't get angry anymore..
Sephiroth:Why...Don't tell me you have feelings too Cloud?
If you've seen On The Way to a Smile and Advent Children, as well as the latter parts of FFVII and still believe that Cloud doesn't love Tifa, you're in your own little world.
Advent Children Complete does a little more to cement his relationship with Tifa.
the emotion behind this piece is so hard to put in words that playing it in musical form is the only way to do it....specially because this is when cloud finally smiles
This music is one of my favorite but is also the shortest.When he smiled it obviously meant that he finally letted go of his negative emotions and thoughts and THAT's epic(if you think about it anyway)
"Cloud's (Rare) Smile" is absolutely amazing
TheFallenxLullaby 3 weeks ago
Stop with your stupid shipping. This theme is absolutely beautiful. Stop. You're ruining it. The emotion and climax when Cloud sees Aerith turn around in the movie and you just picture it in your head is a moment that gets me to tears every single time, so stop for once jesus christ and enjoy the theme. I get into shipping debates myself, but on here? This is ridiculous.
Natalie2622828 3 months ago
唯今
RoyHided 3 months ago
the guy at 2:53 fell asleep and missed his entrance :'(
alexu3939 4 months ago
@alexu3939 and how couldnt he to such a beutiful piece? Could easily be a lulliby
sephiroth21347 1 month ago in playlist More videos from MissTaGoo
ff its simply EPIC and one and one of the sounds its epic
joelpiper1 4 months ago
this is probably my favourite
dinkthroughball 7 months ago
final fantasy is better than star wars
dinkthroughball 7 months ago 5
@dinkthroughball you have to say ? D:
HRey13 6 months ago
The only thing more awkward than Cloud smiling is Tidus laughing
polyphony89 8 months ago 4
@polyphony89 no it's kimarhi smiling.
tcrpgfan 7 months ago
When cloud smiled it was so epic that they made a whole song about it
supersaiyan2ian 9 months ago 2
i wonder how cloud would be as a person if such tragedy did not happen to him( zack fair's death and aerith's death) both tragedies which cloud was unable to prevent the situation at the time. the story definately will not have as deep as an impact, but just wondering what will happen if they were alive. zack and cloud will be unstoppable as a team
talonblazed 11 months ago 6
I'd give anything to have my orchestra play something like that
SEZV 11 months ago
3 people got pwned by sephiroth
ingratongbata 1 year ago
@dodgesxt hence why they should make a song out of the moment he does because it's a moment worthy of a smile
Stevox323 1 year ago
nobuo is a god!
vaundrasaja 1 year ago
*Cloud: Its ok I'm not alone*
xTheCrazyMerc 1 year ago
Cloud smiled when hearing this song! xDDD
pinoYboYDiCe24 1 year ago 2
I'm getting the shivers with this song. It's so beautiful!
RosieSquall23081211 1 year ago
0:23 Lucky guy!
Morgengrauenengel 1 year ago 2
AMAZING!!
Thsiscool 1 year ago
I'm so grateful I can see this concert live... The songs are all amazing, FF is the best!
I really hope Twilite will make this kind of concert again :)
TsubasaNoAkutenshi 1 year ago
am I the only one who hears a high frequency noise from this video? It's so annoying for me that I can't pay proper attention to the performance :\
Lorkan0095 1 year ago
This song is epic, made me cry the first time I watched the movie :)
88RainyCloud 1 year ago
maybe nabuo uematsu is as greate as beethoven
lyndonhaha 1 year ago
Manteb neh orches,, cuman ada di Indonesia aja,, wkwkw
anggie1010 1 year ago
whoe they're good
laxilashou 1 year ago
dang that cleared my mind
abcz98 1 year ago
Nobuo Uematsu's music is like being inside a lovely dream.
isalovessora 1 year ago 44
A dream that you wish you wouldn't wake up from. . .
AlesandrosX 1 year ago 3
@isalovessora I can't like this comment enough!
Duo42115 9 months ago
So wonderful, I love this classical peice. FF music is just amazing!
Froststripe14 1 year ago 2
Unbelievably beautiful.
I was always imagining the instruments playing in my mind with ear phones, and now the vivid images of the wonderful complementary from the violins, doubles basses, oboes and flutes, and last but not least the piano will always play in my mind.
Thank you so much, so much for this.
XxxXappleXxxX 2 years ago 4
when i small,my bro is playing the final fantasy.when i become big he still playing the final fantasy series.haha bt the final fantasy series so good and nice.
0165357699 2 years ago
And Cloud said:"I not be alone".At to be happy ending.
310322094 2 years ago 2
When aeris said "it's ok" at the end wow !!!
lunchbox425 2 years ago
Incredibly beautiful music.
aznboifromVA 2 years ago 2
you do realize that yall have just had the longest argument on youtube....in the history of youtube...right?
otterball101 2 years ago
If only.
IamVendel 2 years ago
;D *happy cries* when i first heard this i loved it :) .... so wish i could of gone but like a lot of people ... lack of money .. but ill try and go in the future ( thats if there is gonna be one when i finally get money together) :D
paulsky1 2 years ago
I remember! I had a chance to go!!! But, I didn't have enough money. DX But, this is sooooo pretty! I love this song!!!!!
LittlexRyuu 2 years ago 2
Ahhhhhh I wish I was there..KYAAAAA
fukumarushikigami 2 years ago 4
its so pretty
JTAimeVani 2 years ago 3
By playing FF7 crisis core the explanation is quite simple.
If you haven;t played the game find a psp , find the game and play it.The story comes together.
prettyteddy450 2 years ago 3
perhaps....the relationship have been proven officially because 2 couples have been settled by "death and live"...
death-Zack X Aeris
live- Cloud X Tifa
doesnt this end up looked better for 4 of them??
kilky04 2 years ago 45
@kilky04: Who would Zack get if Cloud took Aerith anyway... Not Tifa for sure, she spat her hatred for SOLDIER in his face... and they never knew each other anyway... Zack was Aerith's first bf anyway, it'd be messed up for Cloud to come by and steal her.
FrozenAnarchy 1 year ago
@FrozenAnarchy there still aqua from kingdom hearts birth by sleep
irham1991 1 year ago
@FrozenAnarchy good and valid point. although cloud didn't know that the two were a pair to begin or end with until he pieced it together later on.
FBImprov 7 months ago
@kilky04 True, true. People forget Aeris didn't really like Cloud she only was fond towards him because he pretty much reminded her of Zack so her and Zack were always meant to be (made obvious by Crisis Core) and Tifa has always had a thing for Cloud since childhood whilst Cloud isn't the most open person but he does have a soft spot for Tifa as well.
JackolousTheNinja 8 months ago 2
hardr0ck....what points are you trying to make exactly? You keep going on about how C/T can't be proven. If only because you set an extraordinarily high (and shifting) standard for them. Then you throw in these lines about how Cloud did have feelings for Aerith. When someone calls you on it you insist that it's not what were talking about. Plus you seem to be making facts up at random.
One more thing. Cloud did not get Geostigma until AFTER he went off to find a cure for Denzel.
IamVendel 2 years ago
... fine whatever. I tire of this anyway. it's not that important to me.
i mean, i feel i gave a quite reasonable argument saying that all you're doing is simply assuming cloud and tifa are together. And since you constantly refuse to believe that, then we're never going to find a common ground and i'm wasting my time talking to you.
If by "high standard" you mean OFFICIALLY dating, then that's ridiculous. You don't get a girlfriend unless you ask her to be, bro.
hardr0ck 2 years ago
Man, you have no idea of how I'm feeling right now. Let's just say I'm looking forward to that drink down the pub.
Well, Cloti is certainly no more assumption than Clerith, and Cloti has that ultimania quote of "realised their feelings for each other" which can only really be romantic. That's the main reason I disagree that Cloti is assumption, it's stated, clear as day, in official SE material
I understand your standards but Cloud and Tifa still have a romance going on.
raquelborn 2 years ago
yes yes yes, i know all that, we've already discussed that.
you're just overlooking the fact that they're not officially together. i mean, i must've said that like 10 times already. if like a girl, and she likes me too, but we haven't actually agreed to date, then we're not in a relationship, regardless of how i feel about her. i don't mean to point out the obvious but it seems you're just not getting it.
hardr0ck 2 years ago
So because you never see C/T go out on a date they simply cannot be in a relationship?
Brilliant logic.
My cousin moved in with a girl last year. I have never seen this woman. So of course by your standard for C/T they obviously cannot be in a relationship.
And they haven't even started a family yet.
IamVendel 2 years ago
vendel seriously. it's over. let it go.
if you really REALLY want to ask a question, PM it to raquelborn and have her ask for you. You're not worth my time.
hardr0ck 2 years ago
It was over before it began. You never had a leg to stand on. I'm just glad you can finally admit it.
But feel free to ask me anything you want. I'm not going to cover my eyes and go "if I can't see it, it isn't real".
Which is the online version of sticking your fingers in your ears going "lalalalala can't hear you".
IamVendel 2 years ago
you're still at it?
my suggestion still stands. delete your youtube account. turn off your computer. and go back to school. and don't be surprised if the short bus comes to pick you up.
hardr0ck 2 years ago
Don't go away mad hardr0ck. Just go away. You lost. Get over it.
IamVendel 2 years ago
Yes you set an arbitrarily high standard for a C/T relationship.
Two people who realize their feelings for each other, move in together and start a family under ANY reasonable standard would be considered a couple.
It doesn't need proving. It would have to be specifically poitned out that it is not a relationship. And guess what? Those quotes don't exist in the movie or in any statement by the creators.
IamVendel 2 years ago
we're done talking vendel.
thanks.
hardr0ck 2 years ago
Done talking?
But I do so enjoy your non-points. The best of which is-"C/T CANNOT BE PROVEN...but of course Cloud loved Aerith".
Tell you what. I'll ask one more time. Show me anything official that says two people who realize their feels for each other, move in together and raise a family are not a couple.
IamVendel 2 years ago 4
... been uh... been two days...
soniquefus 2 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
I suspect it will be many, many more.
IamVendel 2 years ago
We just should stop discussing about tifa/cloud/aerith...
in my point of view, cloud liked aerith, but since aerith's dead, he doesnt want to keep living remembering those painful memories, (coz its impossible to resurrect the dead one.) he just try to live happily with Tifa... but in any part of FFvll shows that Cloud and tifa are sharing mutual feelings
Zilogrok 2 years ago
Except, if he did like her, then why did he immediately move on with Tifa less than a month later and only later begin to seek the dead woman's forgiveness?
Also, Hardrock, you get on Vendel for making 'one liner comments' and then ignore all his actual points.
When Barret leaves on his walkabout, Cloud, Tifa, and Marlene are 'the family of three'. When Denzel, obviously their child and C and T his replacement parents, they become the family of four.
Insisting C/A yet not seeing C/T is denial.
Ryushikaze 2 years ago
"and Aerith is the only scene that has dialogue when they're on the gondola"
Epic Fail.
"Cloud and Tifa living together and raising children together?"
Yes. Starting right after the game Cloud tells Tifa his new life will be with her. After the bar is built Barret leaves and C/T raise Marlene. They find Denzel and ADOPT him.
By the time of CoD they have been living together as a family unit for the better part of 4 years. They are called family all over the place in official sources.
IamVendel 2 years ago
::sigh::
If you're just going to toss out stupid one liners like "epic fail" and think you're engaging in a proper discussion, I suggest you delete your youtube account, turn off your computer and go back to school.
Totally. Because the beginning of AC, Cloud wakes up and takes a shower while Tifa hits the snooze button, and the dog starts barking, and Marlene and Denzel are eating cereal downstairs getting ready for school.
hardr0ck 2 years ago
Comment removed
IamVendel 2 years ago
"Whoever it was I was originally talking to claimed there was no romance between Cloud and Aerith"
Still waiting for that romance btw.
"People see Cloud and Tifa and immediately think ZOMG LOVE." I know it's crazy seeign two people living together raising two children and think they might love one another as more than "just friends"
The entire discussion is ridiculous. Held to any reasonable standard C/T are an obvious couple.
IamVendel 2 years ago
Living together and raising children?
I already dealt with this argument. look for my comment.
If C/T is an obvious couple, you must be that guy that thinks he's dating someone b/c he can't get the hint that she's not interested.
hardr0ck 2 years ago
"Living together and raising children?
I already dealt with this argument. look for my comment."
It's not an argument. It's not up for debate. Cloud and Tifa are raising Marlen and Denzel. They consider them their children. They are called a family by official sources more than once. They added in new scenes for ACC that deal directly with the issue of family.
You can't simply dismiss that as an argument.
IamVendel 2 years ago
Last time I checked, children don't call their parents by their first names, like Marlene and Denzel refer to Cloud.
Perhaps Tifa considers them their children, but Cloud shows absolutely no affection to them whatsoever, other than that he felt an obligation to save them from Kadaj and find a way to cure geostigma.
Seriously. If you don't think this is something up for debate, then GTFO this discussion. You're not really offering anything useful anyway.
hardr0ck 2 years ago
It really isn't up for debate.
Per FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania
"The present Tifa isnt just Clouds childhood friend, but also the mother of the family they were forming in Edge."
"The more he realizes how happy he is living with Tifa and the children, the more the fear of losing that and regrets toward the past trouble Cloud.With the support of former allies and Tifa, an important woman to him and now also part of his family, Cloud regains the courage to move forward."
IamVendel 2 years ago
Granted you bring up a good point (finally...), let's discuss this, shall we?
Cloud and Tifa were raising two kids together. Okay, fact.
Cloud and Tifa were playing husband & wife while raising these kids. Entirely your opinion. These kids are their mutual responsibility, so of course they'd take care of them together.
By AC (which is later than the quotes you provided), Cloud is estranged from this "family" and clearly has NOT entirely "moved forward". How canonical are these quotes?
hardr0ck 2 years ago
They're canon because they're stated by official SE materials. =)
I don't know about "playing husband and wife", but they are certainly playing mother and father, especially to Denzel. It's just not often you have opposite sex best friends doing this, not unheard of, but still, when you consider Tifa's feelings for Cloud, and their conversation at the beginning of CoT in which Cloud appears to be expressing romantic interest, it becomes a logical assumption that it's part of their relationship.
raquelborn 2 years ago
okay, sure. as long as you recognize that it's an assumption, then we're agreed.
hardr0ck 2 years ago
1. I stated where the quotes came from.
2.The quotes take place at different times. The first one is a general statement. The second is about Cloud's motivation for leaving before AC and the third is about how Cloud overcomes his problems during AC.
3.Mutual friends do not raise multiple children together. You have to prove that.. Otherwise 99% of the time people will assume the 'parents' are in a relationship.
That is what I mean by a reasonable standard for the C/T relationship.
IamVendel 2 years ago
I read the link raquel sent me, and from what I read, that last bit does not clearly indicate it's referring to AC. That's just your interpretation of it.
By saying that as well, you're agreeing that Cloud hadn't moved on until AC? Meaning he hadn't moved on with Tifa.... yet.
hardr0ck 2 years ago
They live together in Case of Tifa after the events of the original game, so they must have of "realised their feelings" before this during FFVII. How else can you interpret that?
Moved on from his guilt and sins, including the death of Aerith. You just simply can't turn this into a relationships drama when it's all about forgiveness and guilt.
raquelborn 2 years ago
i seriously feel like we're just going in circles because you constantly forget everything I mention and bring old stuff up again.
By AC (which is the latest installment as far as chronology in the FF7 world goes), Cloud and Tifa aren't together. Cloud seems completely estranged from this "family" you paint, and the fact that Tifa didn't even know Cloud had geostigma speaks volumes of a lack of intimacy.
It's clear Cloud has letting go issues that don't get resolved til the end of AC. (cont)
hardr0ck 2 years ago
You're doing the exact same thing. I apologise if I've been doing it however.
Regardless, he considers them his family. You can't deny that.
Cloud felt a failure and could not open up to her. That's not unheard of in any kind of romantic relationship.
Agreed.
Also, Dirge of Cerberus is the latest installment.
raquelborn 2 years ago
Now, we already know Cloud had feelings for Aerith before she died. Seriously. The Project Director of FF7 Yoshinori Kitase has said that, in the early stages of the game production, the inclusion of Tifa's character was mainly to have a love triangle w/ Cloud being torn between Aerith and Tifa.
But I thought everyone knew that. You seriously don't think Cloud EVER was interested in Aerith?? Come on.
hardr0ck 2 years ago
What exactly did Kitase say?
Actually I think the Jenova-influenced Cloud may have had an interest in her but once he became his true self again he was caught on Tifa again as he remembered his feelings for her.
raquelborn 2 years ago
regardless. Not to mention that's purely speculation.
What about feelings on Aerith's part? It would've been all the same to her.
Also, where in the game did it specifically say Cloud had romantic feelings for Tifa when they were young? All we know is Cloud wasn't part of the cool clique Tifa was in and he wanted to be. It's even clear that the meeting Tifa and Cloud had (the promise) was unusual, since they weren't really close. (cont)
hardr0ck 2 years ago
If you play Crisis Core it becomes obvious.
I believe it's also stated in the guide book that they have secret crushes on each other, or something along those lines.
raquelborn 2 years ago
i doubt that, but you're welcome to provide a link to an official source.
Tifa said in the original game that it was when Cloud left that she actually started thinking about him more and more, so that's when she developed feelings for him. So it would be inaccurate to call them "childhood crushes". And like I said, all we know is that Cloud wanted to be accepted into the cool kids group that Tifa was a part of.
Reading anything more into that is a complete romanticisation on your part.
hardr0ck 2 years ago
I'm having a hard time finding an exact quote - all i'm getting are paraphrases and the like (b/c he said it in japanese), but this is taken from wiki:
"having two concurrent heroines and the protagonist torn between them was something Kitase liked"
this was used to reference as to why Tifa's character was added so late into production of the game.
hardr0ck 2 years ago
Thank you for the quote.
Vaan and Basch were also switched round as the main character late in the production of FFXII but that doesn't make Vaan's role of main character suddenly redundant.
Tifa was added later, yes, but that doesn't mean you can ignore what she is now. Which is the childhood crush, the emotional support and now the mother to Cloud's family and the girl that he's living with.
Obviously she gained a huge role from being added last minute so she must be imporant regardless.
raquelborn 2 years ago
i'm not really trying to say Tifa's character isn't an important character in the FF7 story, I'm just pointing out that it was their intention to have a romantic triangle between Cloud, Tifa, and Aerith.
Therefore, we can say that Cloud and Aerith did share romantic feelings at one point. It was the intention of the game designers.
hardr0ck 2 years ago
I love this "C/T relationship cannot be proven" yet "Cloud and Aerith did share romantic feelings".
Based on what? Even the FF7 10 anv ult states that Cloud was basically oblivious to the situation.
IamVendel 2 years ago
Just because there's a love triangle it doesn't mean that the male must have feelings for both females by default.
Another thing about the love triangle is that it's player choice so nothing that happens as a result of it (on the first disc) is actually "canon". It's only the scenes that occur anyway that say anything about what's canon and in the case of FFVII, Tifa gets the unavoidable romanticly suggestive scenes e.g. the lifestream sequence and the highwind scene (high or low).
So... yeah.
raquelborn 2 years ago
Comment removed
IamVendel 2 years ago
Yet some children do. Just like I call my grandmother by her first name while apparently that's weird because everyone else calls their grandmas granny or whatever. That just doesn't suddenly mean she isn't my grandma, or I don't see her that way.
IamVendel has provided some good quotes regarding how Cloud sees Denzel and Marlene, and which also demonstrate it really is a family Cloud sees them all as.
And like I said, parallels have been put up between Cloud and Tifa and Denzel's parents.
raquelborn 2 years ago
lol. you bring up a HUGE exception and claim that's an argument.
In Advent Children, examine the scenes between Cloud and Denzel. In My Opinion (and I believe you'd see this too if you watched it over again), Cloud and Denzel's interaction doesn't look anything like a father/son relationship would, especially from the "big happy family" image you so readily paint. You see a lot of hesitation and uncertainty in trust w/ Denzel towards Cloud. Why would you say that is?
hardr0ck 2 years ago
Because Cloud left. Hence why in ACC he says "you wouldn't leave us would you?".
Do you mind giving some examples? Because Cloud's promise to return to 7th Heaven, him holding Denzel's hand, him saving Denzel along with Tifa, him looking to Denzel's picture, him concerning himself with finding a cure for him, him curing his geostigma, Denzel imitating Cloud's limit break, Cloud taking him to visit Zack's grave and thier pose in the ending pic are all father-son suggestive.
raquelborn 2 years ago
"In Advent Children, examine the scenes between Cloud and Denzel."
In advent Children Complete watch the interactions between Cloud with Denzel and Marlene.
If you haven't seen it that is one thing. But if you have I don't know how you can ignore the multiple added scenes in ACC. Put there just to highlight Cloud being fatherly and his concern for his children.
IamVendel 2 years ago
I'd like to point out that your argument against this has been sucessfully rebuttaled. Therefore, you must either bring forth a new and better argument or accept defeat on the subject.
raquelborn 2 years ago
If only you were right... then we'd all be absolutely sure on one thing.
Clearly you didn't even know what I was arguing, since you kept bringing up Aerith. I responded to the points IamVendel made.
Seriously though. Is it that hard to believe that MAYBE you're wrong and Cloud and Tifa have not been a couple? And if you insist on bringing up Aerith constantly, do you not believe Cloud was ever romantically interested in Aerith? At all?
Just to clarify.
hardr0ck 2 years ago
I'm not sure who you're responding to, but ignoring the "is Cloud in a relationship" question, the main thing we are debating is whether Cloud loves Tifa and just Tifa, or if he loves Aerith and only Aerith.
Just to clarify. ;D
raquelborn 2 years ago
well no, because clearly there'd be no point to that argument. Aerith is dead. I mean, why would I argue that? It's clear by the end of AC and in the game Crisis Core that the writers want the fans to move on with the Aerith/Cloud thing - Aerith is supposedly doing fine now living with Zack in a bright, white room somewhere.
Personally I think that's lame, because I WAS a C/A fan, but Aerith is dead.
hardr0ck 2 years ago
So basically you're arguing that Cloud and Tifa aren't together and he doesn't love her (or at least he loved/loves Aerith more)?
raquelborn 2 years ago
No. Aerith and Cloud are a thing of the past.
Tifa and Cloud are something we can look forward to someday.
Does he love her now? Maybe, but he hasn't showed it yet. Maybe he's just one of those guys that needs some space. Even if you argue little subtleties in his actions in AC, he doesn't do anything like jump out into outerspace after Tifa and have a Faye Wong song play.
When that day comes, we can go to the pub and reminisce about when we first played FF7. How's that sound?
hardr0ck 2 years ago
Case of Tifa indicates enough of his love, or at least romantic interest in her. Ultimania quotes just serve to further support that they love each other (and that's why they're together).
No, but you don't see Balthier doing that for Fran, Vaan doing that for Penelo or Cid doing that for Shera (he only seems to slag her off in the game).
That sounds good to me actually.
raquelborn 2 years ago
It's possible, but there's no proof he was. Just baseless supposition.
And yes, it's arguably possible Cloud and Tifa are somehow NOT romantically linked, but that's a patently absurd notion given their known past feelings for each other, that these feelings are mutual, that Cloud asked her to be with him, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.
By all reasonable standard, they are together and raising two kids together, one in lieu of her own dad, the other as their own.
Ryushikaze 2 years ago
it's a reasonable assumption, no argument for that on my part. But as long as you recognize the fact that it's an assumption. And thinking otherwise is definitely NOT absurd. I really hope you're not interested in hearing me explain why by disputing what you said: "known past feelings" (not.), "cloud asked her to be with him" (definitely not true), etc. etc. etc.
At least you're willing to acknowledge that C/T is an assumption. IamVendel and raquelborn could learn a thing or two from you.
hardr0ck 2 years ago
Hang on. In Crisis Core it's made clear that Cloud had a crush on Tifa and she had a crush on him. It's also been stated they had secret love for each other.
After this I think Ill be okay.
Cloud was silent for a long time before he spoke again.
Because I have you this time.
Youve always had me.
What I mean is kind of different, Cloud answered with another smile.
~They were friends before so Cloud must be talking about another way of being together...a relationship.
raquelborn 2 years ago
Oh man look. Cloud and Tifa being together has been stated, I even gave you the quote from the CC Ultimania. I'm not assuming anything.
raquelborn 2 years ago
I didn't see anywhere in that link that said "Cloud and Tifa are dating".
Come on. It's not that big a deal.
hardr0ck 2 years ago
I never said they were dating!
I'm arguing that he loves her because he does, they have mutual feelings. I'm not saying it's iron clad fact that they're in a relationship, but the quote is pretty suggestive. Why else would they add the "live together at the end of the story" to the sentence.
raquelborn 2 years ago
Lol @ Youtube LTD... but this looks like fun...
Well, let's see...
The scene on the Gondola shows Aerith admitting she doesn't even know Cloud and that she's been chasing around the ghost of her dead boyfriend.
In the Reunion Files when "a memory or us" is mentioned, it's said to be about Sephiroth, not Aerith.
The lifestream scene was all about Cloud admitting his feelings for Tifa, and then under the highwind he says that things haven't changed.
BaltheaMage 2 years ago
Don't act like the gondola scene wasn't purposely written to be "romantic". Aerith even called it a date. And you're totally playing dumb by saying that all she said was she's been looking for Zack and you know it.
Perhaps you're right about the "memory or us" line, but provide a link so we're both sure.
Provide me a line from the Lifestream scene where Cloud "admits his feelings for Tifa" (in the romantic sense). And don't freakin' give me some ambiguous line and say it's obvious.
hardr0ck 2 years ago
By the gondola scene, you mean the date scene right? Well that scene was optional, just like it was opitional to take Tifa on a date instead. Yet, in Reminiscence they chose to use Tifa's scene and not Aerith's, which is interesting.. The scene is also called interupted by fireworks and Tifa is the only one who is interupted.
I can't remember the exact line, but it goes something like "Cloud and Tifa came to realise their mutual feelings for each other".
raquelborn 2 years ago
true, the date scene was optional. You could even get Barrett to go on a date with you. Does that mean Cloud and Barrett had a thing? =P
Of all those options, though, you had to TRY to get Tifa or Barrett, whereas, if you play normally, you get the Aerith scene, and Aerith is the only scene that has dialogue when they're on the gondola, which i think makes it safe to assume that's what's considered to be part of the intended story.
I don't remember that line from the lifestream scene.
hardr0ck 2 years ago
Indeed, which is my point, why are you using an optional scene as support for C/A if you can see how flawed that is.
Yes that's true, yet it was Tifa's date Square Enix decided to use for Reminiscence on the AC DVD. They obviously felt Tifa's date was more important to the story. And as an interesting side note, you can also push Tifa's affection levels to higher than Aerith's before she even appears, provided you're nice to her.
I believe it's in the Dirge of Cerberus guide book.
raquelborn 2 years ago
Incorrect. The Tifa date also contains dialogue. Dialogue which Cloud is interested in hearing more of even after Tifa clams up.
Also, you don't have to try and get Tifa. If you're reasonably nice to her, you get her value above Aerith's before you even meet the flower girl.
Ryushikaze 2 years ago
Tifa and Cloud was made for each other, and Aerith was made for ZACK!!!!!!!!! Lots of people just said Cloud and Tifa don't like each other. If that's you, where have you been? The Moon?
CloudandCecilrocks 2 years ago 6
Nope. Meteor. :D
jk, I <3333 the Cloud/Tifa romance! ^-^
MuteMusicalMorgan 2 years ago 2
Tifa and Cloud never had any "romance" anywhere in FFVII and only hinted at one in AC. Please, they're just friends, as far as we know. Cloud and Aerith had much more of a romance.
A romance was Squall and Rinoa. not Cloud and Tifa.
hardr0ck 2 years ago
I don't know what kind of drugs you are smoking
hardr0ck. But I want them.
Everything you said about Cloud, Tifa and Aerith is wrong. For it to be right you would have to ignore the lifestream event and the Highwind scene. And invent "romance" for C/A.
BTW this piece was written for the smile Cloud gives Tifa at the end of the movie.
IamVendel 2 years ago 2
Cloud and Aerith? The scene at the Golden Saucer when they were on the Gondola. Or how about in AC when Tifa tells cloud he's holding onto a memory? Or the whole dramatic scene where Cloud buries Aerith?
Now, the scene in the lifestream had no implications of "romance". Tifa was just trying to find a childhood friend. Please, don't mistake friendship for romance.
At least Aerith admitted to have ROMANTIC feelings for Cloud. Did Tifa ever? (I didn't think so.)
hardr0ck 2 years ago
How in the bloody hell is burying a dead body romantic? That's fucking disgusting.
soniquefus 2 years ago
you're disgusting. a disgusting excuse for an intelligent life form.
taking the time out to bury someone is a sign that that person meant something to you. when your mom dies, you're not gonna toss her in trash bin, are you?
hardr0ck 2 years ago
No one is arguing with you that Cloud cared about Aerith. You're throwing out arguments that are supposed to show he cared for her romantically, and you threw out that he buried her. How does that prove he loves her romantically?
soniquefus 2 years ago
who was providing arguments? you certainly weren't. you were talking crap like "burying a body is fucking disgusting" and now you're trying to get into some discussion late and criticizing what I said.
Whoever it was I was originally talking to claimed there was no romance between Cloud and Aerith. So you're wrong - someone was disputing that subject.
hardr0ck 2 years ago
Also the official website stays that Tifa has feelings for Cloud so... yeah
soniquefus 2 years ago
lol. even if you did provide a link, i have a hard time believing i couldn't argue the context of "feelings".
hardr0ck 2 years ago
Tifa asks Cloud if he loves her. I think that makes it pretty obvious, not like all her actions thus far went enough to make it unmistakably love on her part anyway.
There's also drama when Cloud finds Tifa in the church, he freaks out like hell and she isn't even dead. And yet, no one claims this scene is outrightly romantic, so why should Aerith's death be.
Yes I agree the lifestream scene was not romantic. However the Ultimania quote stating Tifa as the only one he's opened his heart to is.
raquelborn 2 years ago
Look. Obvious is Squall and Rinoa. Not so obvious is Cloud and Tifa. I have no problem with the idea of the two romantically involved, it's just that THEY'RE NOT, from what we've seen. Sure, they dance around the subject, but they're not together.
I think people keep overlooking the fact that Cloud and Tifa grew up together and made promises as kids, which is why they have such a close connection and care about each other. People see Cloud and Tifa and immediately think ZOMG LOVE.
hardr0ck 2 years ago
Squall and Rinoa is also more obvious than Cloud and Aerith, so that's not much of a point.
Well they're obviously more than friends by any standards. Relationship? Maybe, maybe not, Nomura keeps dancing around it. But are there mutual romantic feelings between them? From what I've seen and read, yes, it certainly appears so. Afterall Tifa definitely loves Cloud romantically and since they "came to realise their mutual feelings" for one another it can't be made much clearer than that.
raquelborn 2 years ago
Again, I have no problem with Cloud and Tifa. The only reason I mention Squall and Rinoa is to give an example of an actual romance vs Cloud & Tifa, which is pretty much speculation. C/A is a different story altogether.
I dare say most if not all Tifa's actions towards Cloud are entirely ambiguous, and can be interpreted both as romantic feelings or close, intimate friend feelings.
I'd be completely happy to see Cloud and Tifa get somewhere. But they just haven't yet. All I'm saying.
hardr0ck 2 years ago
C/A is pretty much speculation too. Cloud and Tifa even act like a couple in AC/C, we don't get this with C/A. Cloud and Tifa are even said to have mutual feelings for each other, again, we don't get this with C/A. I could go on.
"Do you love me?" knocks that on the nail though. She loves him like that, and that's usually not even something people bother to debate because it's so obvious.
Well they are living together and raising children together, I'd say they've come quite far.
raquelborn 2 years ago
C/A wasn't speculation. She simply died before they could've gotten anywhere. That's why her death was so tragic and the scene when he buries her plays well dramatically.
Cloud and Tifa "act" like a couple in AC...? I would disagree. Sounds more like opinion. If Cloud and Tifa were so intimate, how did she not even know he had geostigma?
Cloud and Tifa are said to have mutual feelings? Said by whom? You keep saying that, but casually ignore when I ask you for a link from whatever source.
hardr0ck 2 years ago
That is also speculation since you can't prove anything was going to happen. What you have done their though is admit nothing did happen while she was alive. It's also worth keeping in mind Cloud was not completely himself, he was being influence by Jenova cells and carried some of the character of Zack (who loved her himself). Once Cloud was himself again (and had realised his feelings for Tifa) I doubt any possible romance would of bloomed as he would now be a slightly different person.
raquelborn 2 years ago
interesting point, however that fails when we see Cloud in AC still dreaming about Aerith, saying things like "I want to be forgiven". Granted, that could just be speculated as him feeling guilty he couldn't have prevented her death, but if you ask me, that shouldn't haunt someone as much as it does Cloud if he never had any personal feelings attached, as well as lingering ones.
I still have a hard time recalling where and when it was that Cloud specifically "realised his feelings for Tifa".
hardr0ck 2 years ago
Yes she meant a lot to him, just like Zack meant a lot to him. But the difference is how Cloud feels he 'let' Aerith die and is now letting this drag him down since he feels helpless anyway (geostigma).
If it was about romantic feelings you'd expect him to say something like "I wish I could bring you back" or "I wish you were here". Instead there's heavy emphasis on him wanting forgiveness; to have the ability to move on essentially.
At the lifestream event, even possibly the highwind.
raquelborn 2 years ago
Wow. Wait a minute! We agree!
You're right, Cloud doesn't say "i wish I could bring you back". He says "i want to be forgiven". And I believe you're right - he wants to be able to completely move on. Meaning, he hasn't moved on yet. Meaning, his lingering feelings has kept him from letting go of her. Meaning, he hasn't entirely opened up to Tifa yet.
Well then thank you, my work here is done. That's all I've been saying. I'm glad we agree.
hardr0ck 2 years ago
Move on from his sins and past failures. Just like Tifa had to move on from hers and eventually achieved this by resolving to give as much as she could (which included adopting Denzel). Barrett similarly resolved to go travelling. Cloud just needed to forgive himself.
I don't see how you made the leap to romantic feelings from that. Unless, that isn't in fact what you're arguing. If not, we are in a kind of agreement.
raquelborn 2 years ago
The 'argument' scene is one example. They were like a married couple there. That maybe my point of view (and a POV of many other viewers I may add) but Rude and Reno look pretty uncomfortable if they're only listening in on a BFF tiff.
Cloud explains why in Case of Tifa, he can't approach her sometimes. He also says to Marlene he didn't feel he could even protect himself, in other words he felt like an utter failure, hence his leaving.
It's from the Crisis Core Ultimania. I'll PM you the link.
raquelborn 2 years ago
Again, you're interpreting things.
Cloud and Tifa living together and raising children together?
Cloud had been living with Tifa since she found him all messed up in the head at the train station. He had nowhere to go. So living together means nothing.
Raising children together? more like looking after orphaned kids.
Come on... Just admit that there's no obvious and official romance between Cloud and Tifa. They're not married or dating are they?
hardr0ck 2 years ago
Except now they're living together on their own with their "family" that "they were building in Edge" (direct quote). It's also now a case of Cloud wanting to live with Tifa, there's no obligation to friendship involved.
Yes, so raising children. Cloud and Tifa are paralleled with Denzel's parents which is most noticible once you watch the CoD anime. Tifa is also the "mother" of Cloud's family. SE are very keen to bring this idea across.
raquelborn 2 years ago
Lol. They love each other, Cloud loves her. That's all that I'm concerned about. Going into the specifics of whether they're actually in an 'official' relationship I'll leave up to Cloti forums.
raquelborn 2 years ago
Link me to the scene where Cloud says "I love you, Tifa" or where Tifa says "I love you, Cloud" and they make sweet, passionate love.
hardr0ck 2 years ago
They don't, but this never happens between Aeirth and Cloud either, so yet again, that's an unhelpful point.
What we do have for Cloud and Tifa is them "realising their mutual feelings" as stated in the Crisis Core Ultimania, of which I sent you a link to. Cloud and Aerith lack a comparable quote to this.
raquelborn 2 years ago
would you stop acting like we're arguing whether Cloud's supposed to be with Aerith or Tifa? WE'RE NOT. I ALREADY KNOW CLOUD AND AERITH WERE NEVER A COUPLE, AND I DON'T REMEMBER SAYING THEY WERE.
All I'm saying is, Tifa and Cloud weren't either. So stop bringing up Aerith with some ridiculous logic thinking "if cloud wasn't with one, then he must've been with the other".
hardr0ck 2 years ago
So you're not arguing that Cloud loves Aerith, and only Aerith? It's best to clarify this before we debate any further.
raquelborn 2 years ago
Of course not. I've said that plenty of times already.
I'm just saying that you can't say Cloud and Tifa are 100% - no bs - undeniably - unmistakably - officially together.
Cloud and Aerith HAD a thing - whether you choose to believe that I guess I don't really care (even though it's pretty clear that they did).
hardr0ck 2 years ago
Okay then, it's now up to you to provide evidence that Cloud and Aerith had something in order to prove your argument right.
raquelborn 2 years ago
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Hey Everyone!
My name is Kevin. I'm a 16 year old composer. Nobuo Uematsu is a huge inspiration to my music. I would love for everyone to visit my channel and view the work available. Thank you to everyone!
happyramenstudios 2 years ago
this peice means so muchhh
omg thanks for posting
tubbymura98 2 years ago
great end to a great character, hope he finds peace now.
p.s he has to hook up with tifa on the double!
joshmosh79 2 years ago
*Sephiroth stabs Aerith,Cloud was just infront*
Cloud:..No!...No..this cannot be happening...
Sephiroth:..Don't worry,soon she will be part of the planet's energy...and I will got to the Northen Cave to reunite with my plan-
Cloud:SHUT UP!I don't care about your plans,what about my feelings!My hands are tingling,my mouth is dry(or something like that)Aerith won't cry,won't get angry anymore..
Sephiroth:Why...Don't tell me you have feelings too Cloud?
Cloud:OF COURSE I DO!
UnholyDarknessZ 2 years ago 2
it was a moment in FF AC that u kinda wanted to cry for him cuz u knew he was happy, finally truelly happy.
meganutts84 2 years ago 2
ENCORE U BASTARDS!!!
meganutts84 2 years ago 3
this song is so beautiful. i luv it to death. it packs so much emotion. Noubou really can stir the heart.
meganutts84 2 years ago
I love the way that Cloud smiling is such a momentous occasion that they wrote a piece for it.
KHlovechild 2 years ago 4
IM INLOVE WITH CLOUD!!!
one day ill turn into an anime and
MARRY him :D yay!!
im an idiot -.-
in the end when cloud finally smiled
because he found PEACE i just wanted to cry
and hug him,lol
but then if i do that ill end up breaking the screen and get nowhere -.-
skaterBoyzXpunkGirlz 2 years ago 6
nah... cloud wont marry you...he would rather die because he only loved aerith...not even tifa have the chance...
lokidada2 2 years ago
haha despite all that i still cant anyway...
i am not an anime :"{
though i could ask the FF director to make a character like me and make it end up with cloud XD
but for me to do that I HAVE TO FLY TO JAPAN!! right now..........impossible.
so ill stick to my OwnWorld,lol.
skaterBoyzXpunkGirlz 2 years ago 5
If you've seen On The Way to a Smile and Advent Children, as well as the latter parts of FFVII and still believe that Cloud doesn't love Tifa, you're in your own little world.
Advent Children Complete does a little more to cement his relationship with Tifa.
soulreaver17 2 years ago 6
I thought they were together as of Advent Children. They seemed like it.
FFaddict209 2 years ago
the emotion behind this piece is so hard to put in words that playing it in musical form is the only way to do it....specially because this is when cloud finally smiles
throwdimbows 2 years ago
très relaxante comme musique, surtout à 02:47 quand on trouve pas le sommeil!!
10ssidia 2 years ago
i love orange chicken!
KhmaiBodian559 3 years ago 2
This music is one of my favorite but is also the shortest.When he smiled it obviously meant that he finally letted go of his negative emotions and thoughts and THAT's epic(if you think about it anyway)
UnholyDarknessZ 3 years ago
dilly dally shilly shally!!
nugbutt 3 years ago
Seeing Zack and Aeris at the end together was just so, I don't know, perfect. It gave Cloud the peace he was searching for.
oosaf 3 years ago 3
Beautiful song! Does any1 know where can I download it?
ZzBlackLanternzZ 3 years ago
sebagai indonesian, saya bangga sekali...almost shed my tears...lol
lodyhilman 3 years ago
Oh,orang Indo juga nih...memangnya yang memainkan lagu ini orang Indonesia?
AxelJovian 3 years ago
iya yang maen twilight orceshtra yg konduktornya addie ms
lovelyluns 3 years ago
awesome!!! SUGoi!!!!
monadickted02 3 years ago