20060822 Newsnight - Pt3 - Nation Building in East Timor 1

[kmfw72]

I was in East Timor little over a month ago - many buildings in central Dili have not been touched since the Indonesians burned them down. The UN thought it could build a nation on the cheap. It did very little to rebuild the infrastructure, plus it was only there for less than three years. And people still wonder why things have turned out the way they have?

[gamersrus]

so is east timor leaving indonesia?

[capeedehh]

mudah2n timor lorosae stlh merdeka tidak menjadi negara yng gagal,,?

klo keinginan merdeka itu untuk kesejahteraan rakyat timor,mudah2n pemerintah yang terbentuk di timor mau bersatu,menjadikan timor negara berdaulat,bukan mnajdi negara yang gagal

[metros95]

state-nation is built by ocupation, liberation, revolution,counter-revolution,­civil war, military domination, civil and people power, democracy and economic progress peace and and peace forever. These are some phases in which my country is passing now, so my friend it's not about being useless or usefull,it's all about nation-state evolution to democracy and economic progress!

[cowntowl]

Australia is the Zionist country, massacred thousands of Aborigin People.

[brick4sale]

They weren't Zionists now were they.

[iskandar1111]

Zionist? Actually Australia has a very low Jewish population, what Zionism has to do with the British colonists killing the Aboriginals, I don't know.

[bajinganinsaff]

fuck australia

[TomthatiscalledTom]

Wow what an eloquent put down. Good luck to the independence-minded West Papuans, Acehnese, Moluccans and people in Sulawesi and Kalimantan!

[iskandar1111]

Fuck you

[Laguisan]

It is useless getting freedom for east timor.

[TomthatiscalledTom]

Oh like Indonesia did such a good job of ruling the place? Suharto broke international law in 1975 by invading a seperate soverign state. The Indonesian military killed around a third of the population in a campaign of racist genocide. If Indonesian rule was so good, then why did 78.5 per cent of the population vote to be independent?

[Bra1n14c]

I don't think anybody can argue with what you said. It's just interesting how quickly things went sour after all the hype of a few years ago. Unfortunately for you, Indonesia can't be blamed this time <...to be continued>

[TomthatiscalledTom]

Well, I was there and I saw the Indonesians under General Wiranto back at least nine militia groups who proceded to burn down about 80 per cent of the Timorese infrastructure which meant that post-independence ET was even more impoverished and wracked by unemployment, leading to factionalism

[Bra1n14c]

Wow, I guess nation building is not so easy after all. I can't help but recall all the rosy predictions made by the ET Portuguese elite and their international backers, namely Australia. Don't be surprised to find out that a lot of folks in a certain neighboring country are having a good laugh at all this mayhem. It must be hard not to have Suharto to blame this time, eh?

[TomthatiscalledTom]

No it's not hard at all, although if there is a Hell please let Suharto (and his accomplices Kissinger and Ford) burn there. Incidentally he killed far more of his OWN people in the 1965 coup which brought him to power. Though if it hadn't been for Suharto, East Timor would have three times its current population today

[jinot]

a third of the population? u got this number from australian press i suppose. i know a lot of east timorese and no one mentioned about this so called "genocide". please confirm ur sources about this number

[TomthatiscalledTom]

No, I got it from East Timorese I spoke to and NGO statistics estimating what Timor Leste's population would be today if the Indonesians didn't go in. I also SAW with my own eyes a KB clinic in Ermera district where women were being given Depo Provera to make them sterile and bring down the population while transmigrants were brought in from outside. That meets most international definitions of genocide

[Jonchess]

Take a look at John Pilgers documentary about illegal Indonesian invasion of East Timor which strongly suggests a policy of genocide by the Suharto regime together (search on John Pilger as I can't include the URL under Youtube rules)with torture and fear

[metros95]

state-nations are built by ocupation, liberation, revolution,counter-revolution,­civil war, military domination, civil and people power, democracy and economic progress peace and peace forever. These are some phases in which my country is passing now. So my friend it's not about being useless or usefull,it's all about nation-state evolution to democracy and economic progress!

[tiBbLeX]

the UN is just plain hopeless