Wilson's view of morality is rather childish. It's almost like saying "I don't go around killing people because I would be put in prison for the rest of my life." That kind of thinking completely misses the point and if you're asking yourself what that is then I'm worried about you. From an atheist perspective this life is all we get. So, we should treat each other kindly so we can all have a good experience. Having a parental figure like god keeps us from actually understanding morality.
Your great grandfather committed murder, so you shall live in prison as well. Why aren't there governments enforcing jail time just like the magic man in the sky does?
youd be really angry at the vatican not those who rightfully would like to see it cleaned out. protecting pedophiles and child stealing. your as loyal as a good nazi.
"if there's no god then who will judge you if you do bad things?". Well what about a mass murderer who asks god for forgiveness and gets to go to heaven when an atheist goes to hell merely for not believing? And some people think this is justice.
New theory: Maybe it's good that theists think there is an invisible all-knowing boogeyman. All of them seem to think that they would be murderers, rapists, thieves, and such. Maybe mankind invented god to keep them in check.
@havock89 i dont think al athiest looks at themslvs as GOD beacuse the meaning of that word varies to each athiest or can mean nothing to them. I think it is rather that athiests may look to ther father as God, ther mother as god or someone like that. Christians may look to the same ppl as ppl of great inspiration A ND beleiv in God, The absense of god in a persons worldveiw but the precence of a god like figure in their lives is a nobel thing. Which is a phylosophy in athiesm u neglect
@PhunkadelicPhish What you think is irrelevant. God is a title for "ultimate authority in life" if an atheist has no other being or entity they refer to as an ultimate authority, they ipso facto become their own "ultimate authority" whether they label it as god or not. thats what it is.
Christians can also have others who are authorities in their life, yes. But they at least give "lip service" to Christ who they claim is their god, even if they are hypocritical about it, just like atheists.
@havock89 As both god and morality are human constructs, ultimately man is the highest authority. Atheists are not hypocritical about either god or morality because we understand that fact. What we don't understand is the irrational desire of religious bigots to cling desperately to their failed cults and express fevered devotion to a deity for whom no evidence exists...and this argument is the same for muslims, jews, hindus, or any other belief system based on a deity and a fictional holy book.
@sailcat9 I disagree that God and morality are human constructs. Humanities disfuctional intellect is not adequate in my opinion to function as highest authority... History attests to this in abundance.
I do not understand relgious bigotry either. We have that in common.
I have an abundance of subjective evidence in my life, for the existence in God. Only the atheist has the problem of proof when it comes this. But who ever said life was fair? The rest is spurious nonesense.
@havock89 The dysfunctional human mind is more than adequate to manufacture a dysfunctional deity. I also have no problem with your subjective "proof" of a god: if it cannot be demonstrated to provide independent verifiable evidence a deity exists, it is false and irrelevant. I don't think you have to be an atheist to think that, by the way; you merely need to be rational.
@sailcat9 Wrong. The lack of proof is a problem for you. Not for me. I have an abundance of it. You are simply outside the box. For me to turn from Christianity would be irrational seeing as it delivers everything it promises.
@havock89 "The lack of proof is a problem for you."
Not really. You see we have this wonderful thing called reasoning that allows us to ask questions about why it is a god would provide you with subjective evidence for his existence and not the atheist.
It cannot be concluded that it was ever god's INTENTION that all believe. One would think ANYTHING god intends will be so.
Furthermore a lack of evidence is proof of exactly what we believe. That we have no reason to believe.
@TatsujinSan Yes really. the problem is yours. I have rationality too and as such I know your argument is fallacious. You asked me for proof, a kind of proof that is impossible to get given the subject matter. You have no reason to believe, because you already have a god. A tin-pot disfunctional, pathetic god (namely yourself). And while you hold to the blind faith you have in the unholy trinity of "me, myself and I" you will never "see" any reason to believe.
@TatsujinSan Wrong. You cant prove that an infinity exists, because the universe is finite. You can only prove that finite things exist.
You are your own god. You are your own moral authority. You are the one who orders your "internal reality". You are just not used to facing the truth about youtself. Understandable.
Thank you for exposing yourself as the hateful and abusive base intellect that you are. Have a nice life, and I hope we never meet.
@havock89 If you're going to interchange the word "god" with "moral authority" then fine. I'm my own god. Except that's not what god means now is it? I am not the creator of the universe. I am not a supreme being. I am imperfect. Flawed.
I'm typically very tolerant of you people, but lately your bullshit is getting old fast.
I'm getting sick of the inherent arrogance of belief. You act all high and mighty as if your belief is so obviously true but then fail to demonstrate it.
@TatsujinSan Actually thats what god means. God is a title for the ultimate authority in life. Only recently has god become synonymous with a supernatural spiritual being.
I really couldnt give a damn about what you are getting sick of. i could say the same about "you people" too, but I have some degree of self-moderation, and you obviously dont.
Also I dont have to demonstrate a damn thing to you. You are not the arbiter of validity or veracity. Take a hike.
@TatsujinSan Correct. My faith and my beliefs are not dependent on your approval or saction or verification. I am glad you have finally gotten it through your thick, prejudiced and hateful head.
@havock89 You don't have proof of god, you have faith. If you had proof, then i recomend that you share it with the world, end the wars, the poverty, and the starvation. If you had proof you would be celebrated world wide, you would be higher than the pope. Nobel prizes and ceremonies would be your daily routine. As would be the case for anybody that actually had PROOF. it's been said before, I'll say it again. FAITH is not KNOWLEDGE.
@damaniseman I have proof dimwit, but its subjective proof. You have no proof a dead family member loved you either. but its a real experience that has total validity in your life. That subjective experience is a KNOWLEDGE you possess and that cannot be objectively displayed for others. The same goes for Christianity. WAKE UP and realise the stupidity of your assertions.
@havock89 you can try as hard as you want to redefine the word proof all you like. The reason the word proof is such a pain in the ass for you is because you don't know what it means. Can i prove my dead brother loved me, no, I cannot. I can however live with that being a fact. proof is something you can prove. Just use the word faith or believe. Like a rational human being would. Dimwit
@damaniseman I am not trying to redefine anything sparky. You are just too dumb to realise there are different types of proof that exist.
Christians have never claimed objective proof of the supernatural, and your asserting that you are intellectually honest and open to knowing god "if only there was some proof!" is a load of hogwash.
Go sell crazy somewhere else bub, we aint buying here... lol
@havock89 The existance of God is not up to subjective or objective proof. Under that line of reasoning, i can say that i have seen a purple orange. yeah, we all know it's bull shit. And don't worry i ain't trying to sell anything, its the preachers that are asking for your money.
@damaniseman And you are an authority on neither, so stop talking as if you are. Your inferrence is that all those who know of god are in reality lying... Again you show your true colours. You have no desire to know God, you are happy with being your own god, and therefore you view Jesus Christ as being a direct threat to your own moral authority. atheism is a pathetic powergrab, nothing more, and nothing less.
Go sell crazy somewhere else bub, we aint buying here...
@havock89 There is no need to have a desire to know god, If i could be shown 1 little tid bid of evidence that there is a god. I mean concrete evidence. God is supposed to be all powerfull, this should be easily done. and before you get too cocky, think about all of the gods out there that you don't believe in, not because you study them, just because of where you were born. You act like you are objective about it, but your not, your guilty of the exact same thing you say i am. your blind
@damaniseman As someone who is outside the box you are not in a position to make the statement "there is no need ..." You dont understand human nature, nor gods nature, and thusly you are "up the creak without a paddle"
Original sin is our basic desire to be out own god (determining good and evil to suit ourselves) so I am LIKE you because all humans have this concupisence. Where I am NOT LIKE YOU is that I know that I am not adequate to, by myself determining what is truely good and evil.
@havock89 Were you believe you get your morals from means absolutely nothing to me. Just wondering exactly how far off course you are going to venture in this conversation before you just admit that you have no proof of god.
@damaniseman As I have said in the past (several times due to atheists lack of written comprehension) I have plenty of subjective proof of god. Proof that everyone who is inside the box will agree on, However I have no objective proof of god. Objective proof is always insufficient when dealing with matters of importance. the only thing objective proof is good for is mundane matters.
So quite simply, you are out of luck. How long until you admit that, oh intellectually dishonest one?
@havock89 Oh thats right i just have to remember that i am talking with a person that believes in fairy tales. A person that cannot come to greet with common sense because if he does, even for a monent, God will see him doing so and might punish him for all eternity. You are a joke
Objective proof is insufficient, thats funny. It is so interesting that your god would love to send the vast majority of people who have ever lived on this planet to hell simply because he can't speak to them
@damaniseman No you dimwit. Just someone who actually USES common sense and realises that objective proof has its limitations.
Your rant is the only thing that constitutes a fairy tale.
You dont know how god willl judge the majority of people, and neither do I. So stop pretending you do. All you have is circular illogical rhetoric, and not a shred of actual catholic christian knowledge. The only people who definately go to hell are those who've chosen to be incompatible with gods nature.
@havock89 OK lets take out the subjectiveness right now, Lets not say Jesus or Jehova or Budda, or Allah, or any other god in particular, Lets just say that there is a God of some sort, not having to be specific enough to be subjective about it. If god is as real as lets say a tree, I can proove a tree exists, where's god?
Second, your a catholic, so do you actually believe that your child rapist protecting pope is actually a vicker of Christ. And are your for or against child porn
@damaniseman This is the sort of idiocy I am used to. You cannot clump Christ in with any other god. God as orthodox catholicism understands Him is unique. An attribute of God is that He is transcendent, so God is everywhere yet he is beyond everything in creation. Creation is a finite construct in its being, God is infinite in being.
The pope isnt a child rapist, and you are exposed as a hateful bigot once again.
So far you have been consistently wrong about everything.
@havock89 Didn't say he was a rapist, said that he protects child rapists, and that is a fact. Assuming you donate to the Catholic Church, everytime you do you support it. Thats wonderfull. A catholic rambling on about morals. Why is it that you people don't prefer to have these guys arrested for what they are doing to your youth. No, just put them in different churches so they can keep on raping little boys. Wow, as a human you suck. please stop changing what i write.
@damaniseman No its not a fact. You are either ignorant or a hateful liar. The chruch is my family you idiot. I cannot abandon her anymore than you can abandon your country because there are criminals that go against the laws of that countrt - including their governments - which are all corrupt.
You are a twisted and vile individual, who lies about the pope, and uses emotive arguments to win cheap shots. You are afraid of the truth and thats a fact.
@havock89 Oh really, here is a few names to check out. Father Hullerman, he got moved from chruch to church so he could keep on raping, Father Maciel, who was keep in the Vatican to keep him from prosecution. Rev. Lawrence C. Murphy who raped over 200 deaf/blind kids. the pope wrote letters saying to keep it secret. Ratzinger is also the author of a May 2001 letter to bishops stating that the "Crimine solicitationies" law (regarding strict secrecy in sex abuse cases) is still in effect. u lie
@damaniseman At no point did I say that the pope (then Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger) was unaware of the sexual abuse problems. For the last 4 years before he became pope as head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith he was in charge of reviews all sexual abuse cases that were going to go before the vatican courts, and expediting those who were clearly guilty to be defrocked summarily by their local bishops. All should be considered innocent until proven guilty in a vatican court of law.
@havock89 Oh my, you are actually standing up to defend his actions. Truely a brainwashed servant you are. There are letters from his office saying not to punish because the priest is too young. His position is that of protecting the churches image, not protecting children. Let's leave all of the religion vs athiesm aside. It is your duty as a human, especially as a christian to renounce that filth. Just like it is the duty of non violent muslims to stand agianst violent ones. WTF research!
@damaniseman Its easy to defend his actions against the FICTION you have presented.
Lets leave humanism aside for a second. You are outside the box. Your opinion of my faith doesnt matter in the slightest. So stop pretending that it does. We have rules, and criminal elements within the church break those rules. You want to talk about catholicism talk about its teachings, not the mistakes of its members. Thats our family business, not yours.
@havock89 Wow, do you have too much pride to be able to go and research it. Not every case agianst the Pope is a slam dunk, there are plenty of cases that are. People like you ignoring the truth of the matter, what kind of teaching is that. You are just like the Pope, protect the church at all costs, don't worry about the kids, it's just a little raping. Protect the church.
@damaniseman Wrong idiot. People like you havent got the foggiest why people like me are in the church, and you dont want to understand either. You cant tolerate anything that is a threat to the soverignity of your little tin pot ego self worship. The kids are part of the church you moron, and your emotive arguments are a waste of space. Turn your attention to the secular schools, where the cases of child abuse are 300 times higher than in the catholic church. We are dealing with "our problem".
@havock89 Hey man is this subject a little too close to home for you. that would explain why your temper goes off the hook like that. it would also explain why you refer to it as "our problem". If at one point you were one of those poor helpless little kids, you got to remember something, IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT. even if you liked it just a little. or if you liked it alot, doesn't matter, it was an immature mindset back then, not too different from your mindset now. LET IT OUT.
@damaniseman Of course its close to home. The church is a family. So its exactly AT HOME.
Its your problem if you dont know god. Its your problem if your own disfunctional attitude and prejudice precludes you, makes you incompatible with, knowing the God who created you.
I have explained several times over that those priests are traitors to the church, and those who aided them. Yet you emotively keep repeating "those poor kids" in an effort to infer I have no empathy for them. Pathetic.
@damaniseman Nope. The pope is a very good one, doing the job Jesus gave him the best he can. God bless him and I pray for his intentions. The biggest traitors are side-by-side those priests who abuse their sacred office AND those catholics who dont know their faith and walk away from God. In reality both walk away from God. They have been given the greatest treasure in the world and they betray their benefactor and Lord.
@havock89 You really are too scared to say anything negative about the pope arn't you. The facts are there, in his own writing. you refuse to see the facts. The pope protects rapists, and you support him. you would rather support an assistant rapist than think that god saw you criticize. your nuts
@havock89 im sure gods plan included the pope and vatican officials covering up child rape by priests, the same with the church helping nazis escape to south america after ww2 or the church taking babies away from their parents and given to "better" parents. " the pope and church are evil at best.
@adzug Another idiotic startement from an anti-catholic bigot. Every society has criminals, and some criminals have other criminals who cover their acts up. For example in secular society there are 300 times the number of child rapists and those who support and hide them. Society is therefore 300 times worse than the catholic church. Clean your own house up before you interfere with mine, chump.
@havock89 well youre correct that im anti catholocism. i hate the evil church. 1 id like to know where your info comes from and 2 secular society isnt claiming to be infallible and have the hubris to know what to tell others and how they should act. the reason the church needs criticism is its so awfully immoral. the things i cite arent false or exaggerated. so when you say oh theres criminals in all of society , yes but they arent helping nazis and fucking lil boys , and covering it up.
@adzug I couldnt give a damn what you want. You are exposed as a hateful bigot. there is nothing the church teaches that is awefully immoral. I challenge you to pick up the catechism of the catholic church and substantiate your claims, which are false AND exaggerated. Your criminals ARE heling nazis AND abusing little boys, AND covering up.
Thank you for exposing yourself as the hateful bigot you are.
@havock89 i know all about that catechism. and its funny how you can claim any morality when your whole argument is " other ppl do these same things" . except those ppl dont claim infallibility or moral superiority. what your church should be doing is keeping its hypocritical mouth shut and apologize for its evil while trying to amend its crimes. instead it shifts blame on secularism. and "i" dont have criminals. but you out yourself for the kind of morality you really have.
@adzug Catholics dont claim infallability or moral superiority - thats another thing you have gotten wrong. Catholics claim that Christ is morally perfect, The Holy Spirit is morally perfect and the sacraments are perfect. We are not perfect, hence our need for the aformentioned three aspects that ARE perfect.
You still have not backed up your claims by reference to the Catechism of the Catholic Church - because you cant. You are subscribed a lair and a bigot, once again.
@havock89 i never said catholics are infallible. you hear clearly what you want to hear weather the truth or not to assuage your own ego. the pope claims infallibility and you know that and knew what i meant. and allcatholics may not claim moral superiority but you do. you say the only way to heavens the rc church. you still dont deal with the pedophilia only to say it happens everywhere. endless excuses. its the most evil church on earth. scientology is a breath of fresh air by comparison.
@adzug Im simply responding to the dross you are typing, sparky "except those ppl dont claim infallibility or moral superiority." So now you have clarified and reduced your statement to only the pope. I cant a assume what you know, because so far you have not made a SINGLE accurate statement about catholicism.
Please dont bang on about pedophilia, YOU dont deal with pedophilia in secular culture either, which is in far worse a state than it is in my community. Go put your own house in order.
Respond to this video... oh and all the claims of the church agreed upon by the council of nicea. threw out gospels , kept some. and some were as old as the 4 now used. the gospels are copies of copies the first only being written 60 odd years after the alleged events of jesus. with all the various beliefs of early christians , the catholic version was only to strengthen the rule of the church. its corrupt from the start. no church can have the only truth, we dont really know what happn
@adzug Your view of how the church "should be" is irrelevant. You are not a bishop of the church. Your arrogance is seemingly endless. The texts chosen for the canon of scripture were meticulously chosen by comparing them to the apostolic teachings of the Catholic church - not the other way around. You have shown ONCE AGAIN you dont know anything about catholicism or the bible or why it was created.
You really should get a hobby or something and mind your own petty hateful business, ya know.
@havock89 no my opinion is relavent because the organization is evil to its core. ppl must stand up if the organization wont hold its own pp, accountable. as evidenced by ppl like you who refuse to be a man and stand up to what they know is wrong but tacitly protect pedophiles because they love their church more than they care about children. then claim others do it too so dont criticize us. i blame all pedophiles, you guys just protect them . thats why ppl speak out.
@adzug You are calling over 1 billion people evil to its core. You have lied, distorted and lampooned what you obviously hate simply because we are different from you and have different standards and different models in life. You claim we dont love our children, which is a lie, you claim I have said not to criticise us because you have pedophiles too, which is wrong, i simply said to mind your own busines because you have a far worse situation than we do. And I protect no pedophiles - hater!
@havock89 why do you continue to lie and not "man up" to the real problem of the church? thats not at all what christ was about. you need to hear that. again, its not catholics that i say are evil though thats what you WANT to argue as if i said that. it is the vatican and its minions. that allowed pedophilia and then covered up knowing and protecting its criminals. taking away chidren from their parents in spain, this is the organization you protect , shame on you. were you a good catholic
@adzug The vatican is the people the minions are the people the church are the people. We all perform different duties within the Church, but we are Church. So when you say the Catholic church is evil, you are calling all catholics evil. You are the one not willing to "man up". Secular society is utterly rife with sexual abusers, and you condemn all clergy when you ignore the cancer in your own socio-political group. Shame on You. And AGAIN I protect no pedophiles - hater!
@love2salsa secular society has given us the freedom to think. its given us medicine and cured disease. its sent men to the moon. this computer cars roadways allow us to live more than 30 years. proportionally theres more child abusers in the church. and the church for hundreds of years has forbidden ppl knowledge. gallileo, copericus, thousands of untold ppl whos crime it was was to think differently. and you say hater like its a bad thing. ya know the nazis didnt do all bad right?
@love2salsa The Catholic Church is evil. In fact, it's more of a political body than a church. They celebrated Hitler's birthday in German Churches, Nazi soldiers were mainly Catholic and wore belt buckles inscribed "Gott mitt uns." The Catholics are responsible for the Inquisition, the Crusades, the Meso-American Holocaust, and the Jewish Holocaust. Short list here. I could do this all day...
@havock89 i know all about that catechism. and its funny how you can claim any morality when your whole argument is " other ppl do these same things" . except those ppl dont claim infallibility or moral superiority. what your church should be doing is keeping its hypocritical mouth shut and apologize for its evil while trying to amend its crimes. instead it shifts blame on secularism. and "i" dont have criminals. but you out yourself for the kind of morality you really have.
@havock89 i wouldnt hate the rc church if it wasnt what it was. power hungry and feeding off ignorence of their flock. not as much today as in history, but its such a shame youd rather argue with me than try fixing the evil that is your church.
@havock89 i wouldnt hate the rc church if it wasnt what it was. power hungry and feeding off ignorence of their flock. not as much today as in history, but its such a shame youd rather argue with me than try fixing the evil that is your church.
Is this music coming from the show? WTF I just saw "inherit the wind" and there they sing that last song all the time. How can one sing that song and don't see the irony. It is like saying: We have always done it and therefore I don't want to think. Fuck these people are willfully ignorant to the extreme.
It brings me some happiness to see that im not alone; that there are so many 'likes' and comments indicating there are far more of us antitheist, atheist and even agnostics :) wake up u screwed up religious nuts
Wow, Laura Ingraham is a fucking sleezy cunt. What a piece of shit claiming that Christopher Hitchens and people like him, are the reason evil comes into this world... What an ignorant, and pathetic thing for that brain-dead whore to choke up and say on-air.
Religion has caused more wars and deaths, than any other thing on this planet. Religion continues to, and will continue to cause war and death.
The most intolerant people I've ever met, are religious. And that has been a lot of people.
wow, playing gospel music in the commercials, having dumb redneck callers, and jesus freaks ingraham and wilson. Hitch was surrounded. Feel bad for the guy, having to deal with this all the time.
She asks "What about the problem of pain?" What a fricking stupid question! Pain is a natural warning mechanism - your body saying "hey you, did you notice your foot is standing in hot embers and about to be burned to a crispy?" She just asks so many dumb, dumb questions that my head is imploding.
@dutchroll Sounds kinda like some sentence from a b-list action movies. I just waited for Hitchens to say something like: "Pain will only make you stronger" or something corny like that. :-)
Doug Wilson: You are telling me not to say wicked things, and I'm saying "well suppose I keep on doing it" what's going to happen to me?
Dude... do you really not care about life and happiness, and being a decent person for the sake of others happiness? Do you not care about benefiting nature and your enviornment with your life? Your only a good person because that's what god tells you to be? You really only wish to please god to reach the afterlife? That's fucked up.
We can not possibly know the nature of a god that chooses not to present himself to the world in a concrete way. Religion is a way to control people by playing on their fear of the unknown and their desire to reunite with loved ones they have lost. Point blank. To claim that we have the absolute answers to something like what happens to consciousness after we die is absurd. To know, we would have to actually die and stay there which would preclude any way of bringing back evidence.
Gahhhh, once again the christian is assuming he knows for certain the nature of god based on a book written long before he was born by people he will never meet or know the motives of. Pascal's wager is completely pointless because the principles of christianity are not proven to be based on the will of god at all. If there is a magical place like heaven after we die and you stand before god as an athiest, it's doubtful he/she/it will be like any concept we have of him here on earth.
@MrVistaCruiser No, that won't work either. They'll just point to something as vague as "souls," saying only souls have an after-life and only people have souls. Then they'll cite chapter and verse in the Bible which, if you use your imagination realy hard, will "prove" their point. After why would there be bacteria in heaven? It just keeps getting more and more preposterous to the point that you realize, like the movie "War Games," the only winning move is not to play.
@MrVistaCruiser I can see why. But I started thinking about it last night and realized all they'll do is tell you that bacteria, unlike fully formed humans, don't have souls and therefore are "nothing" anyway. Bottom line is they'll always be able to figure out how to move their target.
@MrVistaCruiser Sir, I've been following these sorts of debates now for about three years and this is one of the best points I've ever seen made on the subject.
Hitchens is wrong! we are not told to be get better from our original sickness, we are judged on how best we try and make ourselves better, as we will never get better. Humans are prone to being sick, and we can never be fully better, which is why Eve ate from the fruit. now you may or may not believe in all this, which is fine, but Hitchens seriously needs to get his facts straight here.
Thank you Laura, for speaking on behafl of Christopher, who, you seem to believe, can't voice his own thoughts. Why did you even bring him on the show.?Just let him stay home, and you can debate for him, seeing as you already are.
@B0rn0nly0nce firstly, she can contribute her thoughts if she wants, secondly her hunch was right, and finally he got his fair share of talk time to express his own views. please stop clutching at straws, its unnecessary!
You're right about my not needing to clutch at straws, which I wasn't doing: Hitchens performs well in this debate.
I'm sorry you misunderstood my comment. Here's what I meant: Ingraham began the debate by announcing she would act as referee. Instead, she jumped into the debate. I reasonably expect a referee neither to take sides nor speak for a debator; I expect her to impartially moderate the debate, but she didn't. I don't want to hear the referee's hunches or opinions.
@JrKiller18 And you know a lot of people are now realizing that and really thats fair. I mean its not like youre gonna drift in nothingness when you die after you die it will just be like going to sleep only thats depending on if you have another chance at consciousness as another being, but itll be you die and lose all sense of time; If you have the chance to live again (reincarnation) itll be like going to sleep and waking up 5 seconds later... I hope someone understands me.
@leifey Yeah agreed, she seemed very reasonable compared to her usual self on "fox news" Although I did research her and actually found out that unlike many of her fellow conservatives she is actually well educated and well spoken, even was engaged to an "East Indian" man and has a law degree from University of Virgina.
Personally I think Laura is way more laid back here in what little Ive seen on fox news clips. She might be a cheerleader for the GOP but in these 4 vids I personally feel that she coulda been way worse. Just for reference; Im way left of Obama, so there is no way im sympathetic to her viewpoints.
@RipTheJackR She may be more laid back here than elsewhere, but that's far from being competent or neutral. She talks over the top of someone answering questions she asks, and just interrupts inanely and repeatedly.
Doug Wilson is a really smart Christian. No one can deny him that. His arguments are valid. I would love to debate theology against him. Hitchens is a mastermind though...
original sin is a way to scare uneducated ppl into giving in..all religion is terrorism on a terrifying global scale with the exception of some eastern beliefs that are more philosophy than a..religion
@poisonheadcrab < Religion want you to work 6 days a week and on 7th day behave like a sheep in whatever denomination, one is born to. They pretty well manage to enslave large # of people that way. Even recruited them for a pre-planned war.
Poor to middle class, human beings have suffered for millenia as they never able to share their experiences with others. Now in last few decades, more and more people are able to expose this business of God or Allah- just old stale beer in new bottle !
@poisonheadcrab < This is a distorted idea of "karma and reincarnation" which is : the fact that you are reborn, you have some unlearned lessons or new experiences(agenda) on the earth. The earth is a mediocre planet in terms of evolution and a tough school. So a naughty soul has to come here and suffer.
As we know it is not all suffering; you could get drunk and bash religion too, lol or play golf like Tiger Wood(18 girlfriends too much though); or strap bomb and get 72 virgins(Muslims bro).
Wow. "Billions of people just heard you say this awful thing." Hitchens knows how to drive it home. Thumbs up to Laura Ingraham for her thoughtful questions. Not original but well phrased. The callers were fools.
After a (very, disappointingly) short while, these discussions all kind of sound the same, don't they? The theist constantly thinking the homo sapiens incapable of telling right from wrong without a cosmic force, and the atheist having to clarify what atheism *is* anyway, b/c the theists just don't want to get it.
The new factor on *this* one was the unbelievably annoying "moderator". Wow. I'd never tune in to her station.
Since Glen Beck, who Laura Shares employers with and who is their Celestial Dictator i.e. Roger Ailes and Rupert M, and since she cannot say anything wrong about for fear of being fired..and who does not believe Jesus was the son of God and Savior to the world..but can be trumped up as a fascist crowd pleaser and hate monger for the Religious Right Evangelicals....It seems totally transparent that she said of Chris Mathews "spoken like a true Catholic" when he said E's Fanatics are like Taliban.
@Arkayem She gets paid to interupt her guests before they can finish making their case, thus misconstrue their argument? Actually yeah, she probably does.
We have very different opinions on what is "good".
"Divine inspiration" is an extremely vulgar idea. From where comes this sickly desire to give our accomplishments away to some celestial dictator? It's we who make the art, compose the music or build the buildings. Credit should go where credit is due.
No where in the Bible does it even mention hell. It mentions being separated from god but not at any point does it say 'If you don't believe in me, you will be forced to an eternity of suffering'. Read it.
Religion ,Cultism & various forms of so called spirituality are all forms of brainwashing and a clear sign that somebody is incapable of thinking for themselves,facing facts and thinking critically.
Atheism(non theism)and possibly agnosticism are merely sane stances to adopt in light of the evidence(or lack there of.)
Faith throws evidence out of the window and is therefore nonfactual,untrue and an obvious falsehood.
How can anybody be expected to believe this stuff if they respect truth?
@tommurphy67 Probably not given that he never experienced it during this interview. Just because he doesn't possess a British accent doesn't mean he loses this debate. If you came into this interview believing there was no God, you probably still believe there is no God. If you came into this interview believing in God, you probably still believe in God. Interesting exchanges nonetheless.
@frickface1 Every exchange that I have ever heard between these two gentlemen has ended with Wilson on the receiving end of a monumental Hitchslapping. Wilson strikes me as a very decent but deluded man. That is why he always loses. If he had something of the night, something underhanded, about him, like D'Souza or Lane Craig, then he would gain more traction with Hitchens. I prefer Wilson's accent to Hitchens', for what it is worth (nothing). Also, I agree that these debates don't change much.
One thing I'll give the christians is this: that no one knows actually what happens when one dies. To state that nothing happens, is on par plausible as the theist proposing that we go to a theme park in the sky IE heaven.
Hitchens, swallow your pride and just say I dont know. None of us know.
@Domzdream uhh, he does say he doesn't know, but that it's most likely nothing happens based on what we know. How on earth can you say that's as plausible as flying to a theme park in the sky? Your neural connections ceasing to function thus ending awareness is as likely as being resurrected into a mystical world? Come on lol.
Well, in believing in a cosmic daddy flying zombie Jew, who died on a stick, which somehow, I don't know how, seems to have cleared you off your sins for the time being, has caused YOUR neural connections ceasing to function due to being scrambled into goo, no thanks to religion.
I don't know how a species can go forth that takes so much time and energy to perpetuate a myth / lie. I was brought up to believe that telling the truth is your best bet as you don't have to remember what lies you've told and the story from that point forward. It's for this reason that religion will fail. Living by truth and evidence is more natural than by myths and lies.
if god really existed, why would he only allow the stupid people into heaven? and the free thinkers who doubted his existence to hell? he apparently would be creating intelligent people and then sending them to hell for his own amusement. kind of a pathetic god that'd be, dont you think? as bill maher has said, "religion is a neurological disorder."
@CntrBrdr I don't know. It's a shame that they can't. I would argue that I am MORE moral without God. God forgives all, apparently. I could sin my way through life and ask his forgiveness and then it's all good again. I hold myself to higher standards.
Because they became eductaed. They once were proclaimers of faith, which by definition means believeing in somehting without prior knowledge. Then they found the knowledge of a thing (IE evidence, and faith automatically dissolved.
Now back to you: how can anyone believe in something they cannot prove and have never proven. Ever. How can anyone believe in somehting which requires faith. This I do not get.
"Religious" people are hanging on to the shredding strands of mythology. It's so sad that they cling to these imaginary entities. It's hard for them to deal in reality, but it's doable.
Wilson's view of morality is rather childish. It's almost like saying "I don't go around killing people because I would be put in prison for the rest of my life." That kind of thinking completely misses the point and if you're asking yourself what that is then I'm worried about you. From an atheist perspective this life is all we get. So, we should treat each other kindly so we can all have a good experience. Having a parental figure like god keeps us from actually understanding morality.
maddoxmudd 14 hours ago
Your great grandfather committed murder, so you shall live in prison as well. Why aren't there governments enforcing jail time just like the magic man in the sky does?
SumpNuther 5 days ago
Hitchens had an amazing tolerance for the same old arguments used against atheism. He had the objections and answers down pat.
Ilicium 2 months ago
youd be really angry at the vatican not those who rightfully would like to see it cleaned out. protecting pedophiles and child stealing. your as loyal as a good nazi.
adzug 3 months ago
"if there's no god then who will judge you if you do bad things?". Well what about a mass murderer who asks god for forgiveness and gets to go to heaven when an atheist goes to hell merely for not believing? And some people think this is justice.
TheTurtlefarm 5 months ago 6
@TheTurtlefarm
It's a good thing we have god to tell us that mass murder is wrong. If we didn't, how could we possibly know these things?
founoe 2 months ago
stupid fucking broad
ibreakkidslegs 6 months ago 2
the pope should be jailed and held without parole for promoting and heading the most prolific murder machine in all of history.
tkdandrew23 6 months ago
What is gonna happend to me? Well you look silly in this life; punishment is already upon you, I mean millions just hear you said this awful thing.
Two birds down with a shot.
laberintodelasoledad 7 months ago
Who is going to judge me for my wickedness? - Wilson
"I WILL!!!" - Hitchens
PlatypuSPawn 7 months ago
New theory: Maybe it's good that theists think there is an invisible all-knowing boogeyman. All of them seem to think that they would be murderers, rapists, thieves, and such. Maybe mankind invented god to keep them in check.
ArgueExplain 7 months ago
Atheists are their own god. A pathetic one at that.
havock89 7 months ago
@havock89 i dont think al athiest looks at themslvs as GOD beacuse the meaning of that word varies to each athiest or can mean nothing to them. I think it is rather that athiests may look to ther father as God, ther mother as god or someone like that. Christians may look to the same ppl as ppl of great inspiration A ND beleiv in God, The absense of god in a persons worldveiw but the precence of a god like figure in their lives is a nobel thing. Which is a phylosophy in athiesm u neglect
PhunkadelicPhish 7 months ago
@PhunkadelicPhish What you think is irrelevant. God is a title for "ultimate authority in life" if an atheist has no other being or entity they refer to as an ultimate authority, they ipso facto become their own "ultimate authority" whether they label it as god or not. thats what it is.
Christians can also have others who are authorities in their life, yes. But they at least give "lip service" to Christ who they claim is their god, even if they are hypocritical about it, just like atheists.
havock89 7 months ago
@havock89 As both god and morality are human constructs, ultimately man is the highest authority. Atheists are not hypocritical about either god or morality because we understand that fact. What we don't understand is the irrational desire of religious bigots to cling desperately to their failed cults and express fevered devotion to a deity for whom no evidence exists...and this argument is the same for muslims, jews, hindus, or any other belief system based on a deity and a fictional holy book.
sailcat9 7 months ago
@sailcat9 I disagree that God and morality are human constructs. Humanities disfuctional intellect is not adequate in my opinion to function as highest authority... History attests to this in abundance.
I do not understand relgious bigotry either. We have that in common.
I have an abundance of subjective evidence in my life, for the existence in God. Only the atheist has the problem of proof when it comes this. But who ever said life was fair? The rest is spurious nonesense.
havock89 7 months ago
@havock89 The dysfunctional human mind is more than adequate to manufacture a dysfunctional deity. I also have no problem with your subjective "proof" of a god: if it cannot be demonstrated to provide independent verifiable evidence a deity exists, it is false and irrelevant. I don't think you have to be an atheist to think that, by the way; you merely need to be rational.
sailcat9 7 months ago
@sailcat9 Wrong. The lack of proof is a problem for you. Not for me. I have an abundance of it. You are simply outside the box. For me to turn from Christianity would be irrational seeing as it delivers everything it promises.
havock89 7 months ago
@havock89 "The lack of proof is a problem for you."
Not really. You see we have this wonderful thing called reasoning that allows us to ask questions about why it is a god would provide you with subjective evidence for his existence and not the atheist.
It cannot be concluded that it was ever god's INTENTION that all believe. One would think ANYTHING god intends will be so.
Furthermore a lack of evidence is proof of exactly what we believe. That we have no reason to believe.
TatsujinSan 7 months ago
@TatsujinSan Yes really. the problem is yours. I have rationality too and as such I know your argument is fallacious. You asked me for proof, a kind of proof that is impossible to get given the subject matter. You have no reason to believe, because you already have a god. A tin-pot disfunctional, pathetic god (namely yourself). And while you hold to the blind faith you have in the unholy trinity of "me, myself and I" you will never "see" any reason to believe.
Its your loss sparky, not mine.
havock89 7 months ago
@havock89 "You asked me for proof"
I asked you for no such thing. Furthermore, one CAN prove something exists. You can't prove it doesn't.
"your argument is fallacious"
That doesn't count as a valid rebuttal. I don't think I'm god. Nor am I overly selfish or self-centered. Nor do I have blind faith in anything.
"It's your loss sparky"
Based on your stupid-ass opinion. Why don't you actually demonstrate how right you are you pompous fuck?
TatsujinSan 7 months ago
@TatsujinSan Wrong. You cant prove that an infinity exists, because the universe is finite. You can only prove that finite things exist.
You are your own god. You are your own moral authority. You are the one who orders your "internal reality". You are just not used to facing the truth about youtself. Understandable.
Thank you for exposing yourself as the hateful and abusive base intellect that you are. Have a nice life, and I hope we never meet.
havock89 7 months ago
@havock89 If you're going to interchange the word "god" with "moral authority" then fine. I'm my own god. Except that's not what god means now is it? I am not the creator of the universe. I am not a supreme being. I am imperfect. Flawed.
I'm typically very tolerant of you people, but lately your bullshit is getting old fast.
I'm getting sick of the inherent arrogance of belief. You act all high and mighty as if your belief is so obviously true but then fail to demonstrate it.
TatsujinSan 7 months ago
@TatsujinSan Actually thats what god means. God is a title for the ultimate authority in life. Only recently has god become synonymous with a supernatural spiritual being.
I really couldnt give a damn about what you are getting sick of. i could say the same about "you people" too, but I have some degree of self-moderation, and you obviously dont.
Also I dont have to demonstrate a damn thing to you. You are not the arbiter of validity or veracity. Take a hike.
havock89 7 months ago
@havock89 ACTUALLY:
God (noun)
1. the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.
2. the Supreme Being considered with reference to a particular attribute: the God of Islam.
3.(lowercase) one of several deities, especially a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.
4.(often lowercase) a supreme being according to some particular conception: the god of mercy.
5.Christian Science . the Supreme Being, understood as Life, Truth, Love, Mind, Soul, Spirit, Principle.
TatsujinSan 7 months ago
@TatsujinSan AS I SAID. that is the modern re-definition of God. Originally the term god is a title.
havock89 7 months ago
@havock89
"I don't have to demonstrate a damn thing to you."
You're right you don't. You can go on PRETENDING to have knowledge of such things rather than backing up what you say.
TatsujinSan 7 months ago
@TatsujinSan Correct. My faith and my beliefs are not dependent on your approval or saction or verification. I am glad you have finally gotten it through your thick, prejudiced and hateful head.
Goodbye, and I hope we never meet.
havock89 7 months ago
@havock89 Run coward. Run along and tell your lies somewhere else.
TatsujinSan 7 months ago
@havock89 You don't have proof of god, you have faith. If you had proof, then i recomend that you share it with the world, end the wars, the poverty, and the starvation. If you had proof you would be celebrated world wide, you would be higher than the pope. Nobel prizes and ceremonies would be your daily routine. As would be the case for anybody that actually had PROOF. it's been said before, I'll say it again. FAITH is not KNOWLEDGE.
damaniseman 7 months ago
@damaniseman I have proof dimwit, but its subjective proof. You have no proof a dead family member loved you either. but its a real experience that has total validity in your life. That subjective experience is a KNOWLEDGE you possess and that cannot be objectively displayed for others. The same goes for Christianity. WAKE UP and realise the stupidity of your assertions.
havock89 7 months ago
@havock89 you can try as hard as you want to redefine the word proof all you like. The reason the word proof is such a pain in the ass for you is because you don't know what it means. Can i prove my dead brother loved me, no, I cannot. I can however live with that being a fact. proof is something you can prove. Just use the word faith or believe. Like a rational human being would. Dimwit
damaniseman 7 months ago
@damaniseman I am not trying to redefine anything sparky. You are just too dumb to realise there are different types of proof that exist.
Christians have never claimed objective proof of the supernatural, and your asserting that you are intellectually honest and open to knowing god "if only there was some proof!" is a load of hogwash.
Go sell crazy somewhere else bub, we aint buying here... lol
havock89 7 months ago
@havock89 The existance of God is not up to subjective or objective proof. Under that line of reasoning, i can say that i have seen a purple orange. yeah, we all know it's bull shit. And don't worry i ain't trying to sell anything, its the preachers that are asking for your money.
damaniseman 7 months ago
@damaniseman And you are an authority on neither, so stop talking as if you are. Your inferrence is that all those who know of god are in reality lying... Again you show your true colours. You have no desire to know God, you are happy with being your own god, and therefore you view Jesus Christ as being a direct threat to your own moral authority. atheism is a pathetic powergrab, nothing more, and nothing less.
Go sell crazy somewhere else bub, we aint buying here...
havock89 7 months ago
@havock89 There is no need to have a desire to know god, If i could be shown 1 little tid bid of evidence that there is a god. I mean concrete evidence. God is supposed to be all powerfull, this should be easily done. and before you get too cocky, think about all of the gods out there that you don't believe in, not because you study them, just because of where you were born. You act like you are objective about it, but your not, your guilty of the exact same thing you say i am. your blind
damaniseman 7 months ago
@damaniseman As someone who is outside the box you are not in a position to make the statement "there is no need ..." You dont understand human nature, nor gods nature, and thusly you are "up the creak without a paddle"
Original sin is our basic desire to be out own god (determining good and evil to suit ourselves) so I am LIKE you because all humans have this concupisence. Where I am NOT LIKE YOU is that I know that I am not adequate to, by myself determining what is truely good and evil.
havock89 7 months ago
@havock89 Were you believe you get your morals from means absolutely nothing to me. Just wondering exactly how far off course you are going to venture in this conversation before you just admit that you have no proof of god.
damaniseman 7 months ago
@damaniseman As I have said in the past (several times due to atheists lack of written comprehension) I have plenty of subjective proof of god. Proof that everyone who is inside the box will agree on, However I have no objective proof of god. Objective proof is always insufficient when dealing with matters of importance. the only thing objective proof is good for is mundane matters.
So quite simply, you are out of luck. How long until you admit that, oh intellectually dishonest one?
havock89 7 months ago
@havock89 Oh thats right i just have to remember that i am talking with a person that believes in fairy tales. A person that cannot come to greet with common sense because if he does, even for a monent, God will see him doing so and might punish him for all eternity. You are a joke
Objective proof is insufficient, thats funny. It is so interesting that your god would love to send the vast majority of people who have ever lived on this planet to hell simply because he can't speak to them
damaniseman 7 months ago
@damaniseman No you dimwit. Just someone who actually USES common sense and realises that objective proof has its limitations.
Your rant is the only thing that constitutes a fairy tale.
You dont know how god willl judge the majority of people, and neither do I. So stop pretending you do. All you have is circular illogical rhetoric, and not a shred of actual catholic christian knowledge. The only people who definately go to hell are those who've chosen to be incompatible with gods nature.
havock89 7 months ago
@havock89 OK lets take out the subjectiveness right now, Lets not say Jesus or Jehova or Budda, or Allah, or any other god in particular, Lets just say that there is a God of some sort, not having to be specific enough to be subjective about it. If god is as real as lets say a tree, I can proove a tree exists, where's god?
Second, your a catholic, so do you actually believe that your child rapist protecting pope is actually a vicker of Christ. And are your for or against child porn
damaniseman 7 months ago
@damaniseman This is the sort of idiocy I am used to. You cannot clump Christ in with any other god. God as orthodox catholicism understands Him is unique. An attribute of God is that He is transcendent, so God is everywhere yet he is beyond everything in creation. Creation is a finite construct in its being, God is infinite in being.
The pope isnt a child rapist, and you are exposed as a hateful bigot once again.
So far you have been consistently wrong about everything.
havock89 7 months ago
@havock89 Didn't say he was a rapist, said that he protects child rapists, and that is a fact. Assuming you donate to the Catholic Church, everytime you do you support it. Thats wonderfull. A catholic rambling on about morals. Why is it that you people don't prefer to have these guys arrested for what they are doing to your youth. No, just put them in different churches so they can keep on raping little boys. Wow, as a human you suck. please stop changing what i write.
damaniseman 7 months ago
@damaniseman No its not a fact. You are either ignorant or a hateful liar. The chruch is my family you idiot. I cannot abandon her anymore than you can abandon your country because there are criminals that go against the laws of that countrt - including their governments - which are all corrupt.
You are a twisted and vile individual, who lies about the pope, and uses emotive arguments to win cheap shots. You are afraid of the truth and thats a fact.
havock89 7 months ago
@havock89 Oh really, here is a few names to check out. Father Hullerman, he got moved from chruch to church so he could keep on raping, Father Maciel, who was keep in the Vatican to keep him from prosecution. Rev. Lawrence C. Murphy who raped over 200 deaf/blind kids. the pope wrote letters saying to keep it secret. Ratzinger is also the author of a May 2001 letter to bishops stating that the "Crimine solicitationies" law (regarding strict secrecy in sex abuse cases) is still in effect. u lie
damaniseman 7 months ago
@damaniseman At no point did I say that the pope (then Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger) was unaware of the sexual abuse problems. For the last 4 years before he became pope as head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith he was in charge of reviews all sexual abuse cases that were going to go before the vatican courts, and expediting those who were clearly guilty to be defrocked summarily by their local bishops. All should be considered innocent until proven guilty in a vatican court of law.
havock89 7 months ago
@havock89 Oh my, you are actually standing up to defend his actions. Truely a brainwashed servant you are. There are letters from his office saying not to punish because the priest is too young. His position is that of protecting the churches image, not protecting children. Let's leave all of the religion vs athiesm aside. It is your duty as a human, especially as a christian to renounce that filth. Just like it is the duty of non violent muslims to stand agianst violent ones. WTF research!
damaniseman 7 months ago
@damaniseman Its easy to defend his actions against the FICTION you have presented.
Lets leave humanism aside for a second. You are outside the box. Your opinion of my faith doesnt matter in the slightest. So stop pretending that it does. We have rules, and criminal elements within the church break those rules. You want to talk about catholicism talk about its teachings, not the mistakes of its members. Thats our family business, not yours.
havock89 7 months ago
@havock89 Wow, do you have too much pride to be able to go and research it. Not every case agianst the Pope is a slam dunk, there are plenty of cases that are. People like you ignoring the truth of the matter, what kind of teaching is that. You are just like the Pope, protect the church at all costs, don't worry about the kids, it's just a little raping. Protect the church.
damaniseman 7 months ago
@damaniseman Wrong idiot. People like you havent got the foggiest why people like me are in the church, and you dont want to understand either. You cant tolerate anything that is a threat to the soverignity of your little tin pot ego self worship. The kids are part of the church you moron, and your emotive arguments are a waste of space. Turn your attention to the secular schools, where the cases of child abuse are 300 times higher than in the catholic church. We are dealing with "our problem".
havock89 7 months ago
@havock89 Hey man is this subject a little too close to home for you. that would explain why your temper goes off the hook like that. it would also explain why you refer to it as "our problem". If at one point you were one of those poor helpless little kids, you got to remember something, IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT. even if you liked it just a little. or if you liked it alot, doesn't matter, it was an immature mindset back then, not too different from your mindset now. LET IT OUT.
damaniseman 7 months ago
@damaniseman Of course its close to home. The church is a family. So its exactly AT HOME.
Its your problem if you dont know god. Its your problem if your own disfunctional attitude and prejudice precludes you, makes you incompatible with, knowing the God who created you.
I have explained several times over that those priests are traitors to the church, and those who aided them. Yet you emotively keep repeating "those poor kids" in an effort to infer I have no empathy for them. Pathetic.
havock89 7 months ago
@havock89 Biggest traitor to the church anyway is the Pope. The man standing in for Jesus. Just admit it.
damaniseman 7 months ago
@damaniseman Nope. The pope is a very good one, doing the job Jesus gave him the best he can. God bless him and I pray for his intentions. The biggest traitors are side-by-side those priests who abuse their sacred office AND those catholics who dont know their faith and walk away from God. In reality both walk away from God. They have been given the greatest treasure in the world and they betray their benefactor and Lord.
May God have mercy on their souls.
havock89 7 months ago
@havock89 You really are too scared to say anything negative about the pope arn't you. The facts are there, in his own writing. you refuse to see the facts. The pope protects rapists, and you support him. you would rather support an assistant rapist than think that god saw you criticize. your nuts
damaniseman 7 months ago
@havock89 im sure gods plan included the pope and vatican officials covering up child rape by priests, the same with the church helping nazis escape to south america after ww2 or the church taking babies away from their parents and given to "better" parents. " the pope and church are evil at best.
adzug 3 months ago
@adzug Another idiotic startement from an anti-catholic bigot. Every society has criminals, and some criminals have other criminals who cover their acts up. For example in secular society there are 300 times the number of child rapists and those who support and hide them. Society is therefore 300 times worse than the catholic church. Clean your own house up before you interfere with mine, chump.
havock89 3 months ago
@havock89 well youre correct that im anti catholocism. i hate the evil church. 1 id like to know where your info comes from and 2 secular society isnt claiming to be infallible and have the hubris to know what to tell others and how they should act. the reason the church needs criticism is its so awfully immoral. the things i cite arent false or exaggerated. so when you say oh theres criminals in all of society , yes but they arent helping nazis and fucking lil boys , and covering it up.
adzug 3 months ago
@adzug I couldnt give a damn what you want. You are exposed as a hateful bigot. there is nothing the church teaches that is awefully immoral. I challenge you to pick up the catechism of the catholic church and substantiate your claims, which are false AND exaggerated. Your criminals ARE heling nazis AND abusing little boys, AND covering up.
Thank you for exposing yourself as the hateful bigot you are.
havock89 3 months ago
@havock89 i know all about that catechism. and its funny how you can claim any morality when your whole argument is " other ppl do these same things" . except those ppl dont claim infallibility or moral superiority. what your church should be doing is keeping its hypocritical mouth shut and apologize for its evil while trying to amend its crimes. instead it shifts blame on secularism. and "i" dont have criminals. but you out yourself for the kind of morality you really have.
adzug 3 months ago
@adzug Catholics dont claim infallability or moral superiority - thats another thing you have gotten wrong. Catholics claim that Christ is morally perfect, The Holy Spirit is morally perfect and the sacraments are perfect. We are not perfect, hence our need for the aformentioned three aspects that ARE perfect.
You still have not backed up your claims by reference to the Catechism of the Catholic Church - because you cant. You are subscribed a lair and a bigot, once again.
havock89 3 months ago
@havock89 i never said catholics are infallible. you hear clearly what you want to hear weather the truth or not to assuage your own ego. the pope claims infallibility and you know that and knew what i meant. and allcatholics may not claim moral superiority but you do. you say the only way to heavens the rc church. you still dont deal with the pedophilia only to say it happens everywhere. endless excuses. its the most evil church on earth. scientology is a breath of fresh air by comparison.
adzug 3 months ago
@adzug Im simply responding to the dross you are typing, sparky "except those ppl dont claim infallibility or moral superiority." So now you have clarified and reduced your statement to only the pope. I cant a assume what you know, because so far you have not made a SINGLE accurate statement about catholicism.
Please dont bang on about pedophilia, YOU dont deal with pedophilia in secular culture either, which is in far worse a state than it is in my community. Go put your own house in order.
havock89 3 months ago
Respond to this video... oh and all the claims of the church agreed upon by the council of nicea. threw out gospels , kept some. and some were as old as the 4 now used. the gospels are copies of copies the first only being written 60 odd years after the alleged events of jesus. with all the various beliefs of early christians , the catholic version was only to strengthen the rule of the church. its corrupt from the start. no church can have the only truth, we dont really know what happn
adzug 3 months ago
@adzug Your view of how the church "should be" is irrelevant. You are not a bishop of the church. Your arrogance is seemingly endless. The texts chosen for the canon of scripture were meticulously chosen by comparing them to the apostolic teachings of the Catholic church - not the other way around. You have shown ONCE AGAIN you dont know anything about catholicism or the bible or why it was created.
You really should get a hobby or something and mind your own petty hateful business, ya know.
havock89 3 months ago
@havock89 no my opinion is relavent because the organization is evil to its core. ppl must stand up if the organization wont hold its own pp, accountable. as evidenced by ppl like you who refuse to be a man and stand up to what they know is wrong but tacitly protect pedophiles because they love their church more than they care about children. then claim others do it too so dont criticize us. i blame all pedophiles, you guys just protect them . thats why ppl speak out.
adzug 3 months ago
@adzug You are calling over 1 billion people evil to its core. You have lied, distorted and lampooned what you obviously hate simply because we are different from you and have different standards and different models in life. You claim we dont love our children, which is a lie, you claim I have said not to criticise us because you have pedophiles too, which is wrong, i simply said to mind your own busines because you have a far worse situation than we do. And I protect no pedophiles - hater!
havock89 3 months ago
@havock89 why do you continue to lie and not "man up" to the real problem of the church? thats not at all what christ was about. you need to hear that. again, its not catholics that i say are evil though thats what you WANT to argue as if i said that. it is the vatican and its minions. that allowed pedophilia and then covered up knowing and protecting its criminals. taking away chidren from their parents in spain, this is the organization you protect , shame on you. were you a good catholic
adzug 3 months ago
@adzug The vatican is the people the minions are the people the church are the people. We all perform different duties within the Church, but we are Church. So when you say the Catholic church is evil, you are calling all catholics evil. You are the one not willing to "man up". Secular society is utterly rife with sexual abusers, and you condemn all clergy when you ignore the cancer in your own socio-political group. Shame on You. And AGAIN I protect no pedophiles - hater!
love2salsa 3 months ago
@love2salsa secular society has given us the freedom to think. its given us medicine and cured disease. its sent men to the moon. this computer cars roadways allow us to live more than 30 years. proportionally theres more child abusers in the church. and the church for hundreds of years has forbidden ppl knowledge. gallileo, copericus, thousands of untold ppl whos crime it was was to think differently. and you say hater like its a bad thing. ya know the nazis didnt do all bad right?
adzug 3 months ago
@love2salsa The Catholic Church is evil. In fact, it's more of a political body than a church. They celebrated Hitler's birthday in German Churches, Nazi soldiers were mainly Catholic and wore belt buckles inscribed "Gott mitt uns." The Catholics are responsible for the Inquisition, the Crusades, the Meso-American Holocaust, and the Jewish Holocaust. Short list here. I could do this all day...
Ilicium 2 months ago
@havock89 i know all about that catechism. and its funny how you can claim any morality when your whole argument is " other ppl do these same things" . except those ppl dont claim infallibility or moral superiority. what your church should be doing is keeping its hypocritical mouth shut and apologize for its evil while trying to amend its crimes. instead it shifts blame on secularism. and "i" dont have criminals. but you out yourself for the kind of morality you really have.
adzug 3 months ago
@havock89 i wouldnt hate the rc church if it wasnt what it was. power hungry and feeding off ignorence of their flock. not as much today as in history, but its such a shame youd rather argue with me than try fixing the evil that is your church.
adzug 3 months ago
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@havock89 i wouldnt hate the rc church if it wasnt what it was. power hungry and feeding off ignorence of their flock. not as much today as in history, but its such a shame youd rather argue with me than try fixing the evil that is your church.
adzug 3 months ago
Why does Wilson stay a believer when Hitchens has such good reasons not to believe? Wilson must really struggle at night.
kaduisaui 9 months ago 3
Is this music coming from the show? WTF I just saw "inherit the wind" and there they sing that last song all the time. How can one sing that song and don't see the irony. It is like saying: We have always done it and therefore I don't want to think. Fuck these people are willfully ignorant to the extreme.
reafdaw01 9 months ago
"who will judge me"
"I will!"
MrTabamon 9 months ago 15
That woman infuriates me.....she's... insufferably stupid.
modularmaster 11 months ago 3
It brings me some happiness to see that im not alone; that there are so many 'likes' and comments indicating there are far more of us antitheist, atheist and even agnostics :) wake up u screwed up religious nuts
RMBOYD81 1 year ago 3
Wow, Laura Ingraham is a fucking sleezy cunt. What a piece of shit claiming that Christopher Hitchens and people like him, are the reason evil comes into this world... What an ignorant, and pathetic thing for that brain-dead whore to choke up and say on-air.
Religion has caused more wars and deaths, than any other thing on this planet. Religion continues to, and will continue to cause war and death.
The most intolerant people I've ever met, are religious. And that has been a lot of people.
Cansololife 1 year ago
wow, playing gospel music in the commercials, having dumb redneck callers, and jesus freaks ingraham and wilson. Hitch was surrounded. Feel bad for the guy, having to deal with this all the time.
Dpesh7 1 year ago
She asks "What about the problem of pain?" What a fricking stupid question! Pain is a natural warning mechanism - your body saying "hey you, did you notice your foot is standing in hot embers and about to be burned to a crispy?" She just asks so many dumb, dumb questions that my head is imploding.
dutchroll 1 year ago
@dutchroll Sounds kinda like some sentence from a b-list action movies. I just waited for Hitchens to say something like: "Pain will only make you stronger" or something corny like that. :-)
reafdaw01 9 months ago
Hitchens for GOD!
peteyc1988 1 year ago
hitchens rules
5H4V3D89 1 year ago 10
@CallumJStewart To be fair, she could suck mine any day!
cooperjc8 1 year ago
Doug Wilson: You are telling me not to say wicked things, and I'm saying "well suppose I keep on doing it" what's going to happen to me?
Dude... do you really not care about life and happiness, and being a decent person for the sake of others happiness? Do you not care about benefiting nature and your enviornment with your life? Your only a good person because that's what god tells you to be? You really only wish to please god to reach the afterlife? That's fucked up.
youztuber5000 1 year ago 2
We can not possibly know the nature of a god that chooses not to present himself to the world in a concrete way. Religion is a way to control people by playing on their fear of the unknown and their desire to reunite with loved ones they have lost. Point blank. To claim that we have the absolute answers to something like what happens to consciousness after we die is absurd. To know, we would have to actually die and stay there which would preclude any way of bringing back evidence.
Damienf77 1 year ago
Gahhhh, once again the christian is assuming he knows for certain the nature of god based on a book written long before he was born by people he will never meet or know the motives of. Pascal's wager is completely pointless because the principles of christianity are not proven to be based on the will of god at all. If there is a magical place like heaven after we die and you stand before god as an athiest, it's doubtful he/she/it will be like any concept we have of him here on earth.
Damienf77 1 year ago
He was too smart for this shit.
ZDWario 1 year ago
Both Laura, Doug Wilson, and the callers during this broadcast.. scare me. Their attitude is really frightening.
Just that they speak as if they "know" everything.
TheAnMish 1 year ago
@TheAnMish Yeah, they can't accept how ignorant we all are.
youztuber5000 1 year ago
@MrVistaCruiser No, that won't work either. They'll just point to something as vague as "souls," saying only souls have an after-life and only people have souls. Then they'll cite chapter and verse in the Bible which, if you use your imagination realy hard, will "prove" their point. After why would there be bacteria in heaven? It just keeps getting more and more preposterous to the point that you realize, like the movie "War Games," the only winning move is not to play.
Haroldbeavis1969 1 year ago
@MrVistaCruiser I can see why. But I started thinking about it last night and realized all they'll do is tell you that bacteria, unlike fully formed humans, don't have souls and therefore are "nothing" anyway. Bottom line is they'll always be able to figure out how to move their target.
Haroldbeavis1969 1 year ago
@MrVistaCruiser Sir, I've been following these sorts of debates now for about three years and this is one of the best points I've ever seen made on the subject.
Haroldbeavis1969 1 year ago
Hitchens is wrong! we are not told to be get better from our original sickness, we are judged on how best we try and make ourselves better, as we will never get better. Humans are prone to being sick, and we can never be fully better, which is why Eve ate from the fruit. now you may or may not believe in all this, which is fine, but Hitchens seriously needs to get his facts straight here.
shariotoflove 1 year ago
@shariotoflove lol at you talking about facts.
alienlifeform11 1 year ago
How does this Woman get her own radio show, seriously?
cooperjc8 1 year ago 3
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@cooperjc8 "How does this Woman get her own radio show, seriously?"
Only in America.
fctchk 1 year ago
..."'Him' means nothing to Christopher..."
Thank you Laura, for speaking on behafl of Christopher, who, you seem to believe, can't voice his own thoughts. Why did you even bring him on the show.?Just let him stay home, and you can debate for him, seeing as you already are.
B0rn0nly0nce 1 year ago
@B0rn0nly0nce firstly, she can contribute her thoughts if she wants, secondly her hunch was right, and finally he got his fair share of talk time to express his own views. please stop clutching at straws, its unnecessary!
shariotoflove 1 year ago
@shariotoflove
You're right about my not needing to clutch at straws, which I wasn't doing: Hitchens performs well in this debate.
I'm sorry you misunderstood my comment. Here's what I meant: Ingraham began the debate by announcing she would act as referee. Instead, she jumped into the debate. I reasonably expect a referee neither to take sides nor speak for a debator; I expect her to impartially moderate the debate, but she didn't. I don't want to hear the referee's hunches or opinions.
B0rn0nly0nce 1 year ago
if you can't accept the nothingness after you die; just try to remember what was it like before you were born.
my 2 cents
JrKiller18 1 year ago
@JrKiller18 And you know a lot of people are now realizing that and really thats fair. I mean its not like youre gonna drift in nothingness when you die after you die it will just be like going to sleep only thats depending on if you have another chance at consciousness as another being, but itll be you die and lose all sense of time; If you have the chance to live again (reincarnation) itll be like going to sleep and waking up 5 seconds later... I hope someone understands me.
JuggB 1 year ago
"The punishment is already upon you. Millions of people just heard you say those aweful things."
HAHA! I love Hitchens.
drinkbeersofty 1 year ago
This is actually the least annoying Laura has ever been for me. Mostly because she kept her trap shut for most of the time.
leifey 1 year ago
@leifey Yeah agreed, she seemed very reasonable compared to her usual self on "fox news" Although I did research her and actually found out that unlike many of her fellow conservatives she is actually well educated and well spoken, even was engaged to an "East Indian" man and has a law degree from University of Virgina.
ryanlk 1 year ago
Personally I think Laura is way more laid back here in what little Ive seen on fox news clips. She might be a cheerleader for the GOP but in these 4 vids I personally feel that she coulda been way worse. Just for reference; Im way left of Obama, so there is no way im sympathetic to her viewpoints.
RipTheJackR 1 year ago
@RipTheJackR She may be more laid back here than elsewhere, but that's far from being competent or neutral. She talks over the top of someone answering questions she asks, and just interrupts inanely and repeatedly.
archapmangcmg 1 year ago
@archapmangcmg
No question there, shes a right wing nutbag who prolly know nothing of journalism ;)
RipTheJackR 1 year ago
Doug Wilson is a really smart Christian. No one can deny him that. His arguments are valid. I would love to debate theology against him. Hitchens is a mastermind though...
lesterismyname 1 year ago
"original sin" hahahahahahahaha that is fucking insane! I have to read the bible so I can laugh my fuckin ass off
flumberg 1 year ago
the word "sin" itself is not based in any form of intelligence simply fear of un-challenged nonsenical crap
tophernates 1 year ago
Theists really are a sorry lot.
Hornadayfan 1 year ago
original sin is a way to scare uneducated ppl into giving in..all religion is terrorism on a terrifying global scale with the exception of some eastern beliefs that are more philosophy than a..religion
poisonheadcrab 1 year ago 3
@poisonheadcrab < Religion want you to work 6 days a week and on 7th day behave like a sheep in whatever denomination, one is born to. They pretty well manage to enslave large # of people that way. Even recruited them for a pre-planned war.
Poor to middle class, human beings have suffered for millenia as they never able to share their experiences with others. Now in last few decades, more and more people are able to expose this business of God or Allah- just old stale beer in new bottle !
Zeno1999 1 year ago
"I am"!
Hahahahaha.
InitiumNovum 1 year ago
bah, I can't stand gospel.
lhurien 1 year ago
We are sinful? So that includes babies that don't know god from the poop in their diapers?
auggiedoggy 1 year ago 2
@auggiedoggy yes according to them all babies are condemned to hell and sinful
poisonheadcrab 1 year ago
@poisonheadcrab < This is a distorted idea of "karma and reincarnation" which is : the fact that you are reborn, you have some unlearned lessons or new experiences(agenda) on the earth. The earth is a mediocre planet in terms of evolution and a tough school. So a naughty soul has to come here and suffer.
As we know it is not all suffering; you could get drunk and bash religion too, lol or play golf like Tiger Wood(18 girlfriends too much though); or strap bomb and get 72 virgins(Muslims bro).
Zeno1999 1 year ago
Hitch > god !!!
Redstick27 1 year ago
wow this is the first time I see an opponent of hitchens who didn't try to insult him during the debate:P
m4c13k86 1 year ago
Wow. "Billions of people just heard you say this awful thing." Hitchens knows how to drive it home. Thumbs up to Laura Ingraham for her thoughtful questions. Not original but well phrased. The callers were fools.
ashleylovesdaddy 1 year ago 3
After a (very, disappointingly) short while, these discussions all kind of sound the same, don't they? The theist constantly thinking the homo sapiens incapable of telling right from wrong without a cosmic force, and the atheist having to clarify what atheism *is* anyway, b/c the theists just don't want to get it.
The new factor on *this* one was the unbelievably annoying "moderator". Wow. I'd never tune in to her station.
GreyLabyrinthine 1 year ago 4
Since Glen Beck, who Laura Shares employers with and who is their Celestial Dictator i.e. Roger Ailes and Rupert M, and since she cannot say anything wrong about for fear of being fired..and who does not believe Jesus was the son of God and Savior to the world..but can be trumped up as a fascist crowd pleaser and hate monger for the Religious Right Evangelicals....It seems totally transparent that she said of Chris Mathews "spoken like a true Catholic" when he said E's Fanatics are like Taliban.
ultramanprime9 1 year ago 2
Stupid bitch keeps interupting just when Hitchens is coming to the end of his point.
Fangtorn 1 year ago 53
@Fangtorn Thats whats she is good and and why she gets paid to speak on the radio.
Arkayem 1 year ago
@Arkayem She gets paid to interupt her guests before they can finish making their case, thus misconstrue their argument? Actually yeah, she probably does.
We have very different opinions on what is "good".
Fangtorn 1 year ago 2
@Fangtorn I was being facetious at best.
Arkayem 1 year ago
@Arkayem Good job.
Fangtorn 1 year ago
"Divine inspiration" is an extremely vulgar idea. From where comes this sickly desire to give our accomplishments away to some celestial dictator? It's we who make the art, compose the music or build the buildings. Credit should go where credit is due.
slipcurve 1 year ago 2
Id rather have people like my parents listening to laura ingraham than glen beck
freeofavia 1 year ago 2
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No where in the Bible does it even mention hell. It mentions being separated from god but not at any point does it say 'If you don't believe in me, you will be forced to an eternity of suffering'. Read it.
ibotted 1 year ago
I have to agree. I am not a theist, yet I really love Gospel music.
spikutus 1 year ago
This bitch takes too many breaks. Im going back to Coast to Coast.
MrKevMan 1 year ago
Religion ,Cultism & various forms of so called spirituality are all forms of brainwashing and a clear sign that somebody is incapable of thinking for themselves,facing facts and thinking critically.
Atheism(non theism)and possibly agnosticism are merely sane stances to adopt in light of the evidence(or lack there of.)
Faith throws evidence out of the window and is therefore nonfactual,untrue and an obvious falsehood.
How can anybody be expected to believe this stuff if they respect truth?
RandomVortex 1 year ago 3
Does Wilson ever get tired of being Hitchslapped?
tommurphy67 1 year ago 88
@tommurphy67 Probably not given that he never experienced it during this interview. Just because he doesn't possess a British accent doesn't mean he loses this debate. If you came into this interview believing there was no God, you probably still believe there is no God. If you came into this interview believing in God, you probably still believe in God. Interesting exchanges nonetheless.
frickface1 1 year ago
@frickface1 Every exchange that I have ever heard between these two gentlemen has ended with Wilson on the receiving end of a monumental Hitchslapping. Wilson strikes me as a very decent but deluded man. That is why he always loses. If he had something of the night, something underhanded, about him, like D'Souza or Lane Craig, then he would gain more traction with Hitchens. I prefer Wilson's accent to Hitchens', for what it is worth (nothing). Also, I agree that these debates don't change much.
tommurphy67 1 year ago
Hitch Slap! Dang
annata12 1 year ago
OFFICIALLY HITCHSLAPPED
capoeiraike 1 year ago
cccdc
ExNihiloJimmy 1 year ago
One thing I'll give the christians is this: that no one knows actually what happens when one dies. To state that nothing happens, is on par plausible as the theist proposing that we go to a theme park in the sky IE heaven.
Hitchens, swallow your pride and just say I dont know. None of us know.
Domzdream 1 year ago
@Domzdream uhh, he does say he doesn't know, but that it's most likely nothing happens based on what we know. How on earth can you say that's as plausible as flying to a theme park in the sky? Your neural connections ceasing to function thus ending awareness is as likely as being resurrected into a mystical world? Come on lol.
trtnec 1 year ago
@trtnec
Well, in believing in a cosmic daddy flying zombie Jew, who died on a stick, which somehow, I don't know how, seems to have cleared you off your sins for the time being, has caused YOUR neural connections ceasing to function due to being scrambled into goo, no thanks to religion.
Pat yourself on the back.
Domzdream 1 year ago
I don't know how a species can go forth that takes so much time and energy to perpetuate a myth / lie. I was brought up to believe that telling the truth is your best bet as you don't have to remember what lies you've told and the story from that point forward. It's for this reason that religion will fail. Living by truth and evidence is more natural than by myths and lies.
Triplecenturies 1 year ago
@Triplecenturies
That's why muslims are encouraged to know the Qu'ran from memory ;)
annata12 1 year ago
if god really existed, why would he only allow the stupid people into heaven? and the free thinkers who doubted his existence to hell? he apparently would be creating intelligent people and then sending them to hell for his own amusement. kind of a pathetic god that'd be, dont you think? as bill maher has said, "religion is a neurological disorder."
iloveniggers1000 1 year ago
@iloveniggers1000 Right on friend!
jcnednasluvchile 1 year ago
keep on truckin Hitch !
00Billy 1 year ago 2
why is it so hard to show people the light. I can't understand why people just can't believe.
..that it is possible and true for us to be here and moral without a 'god'.
CntrBrdr 1 year ago
@CntrBrdr I don't know. It's a shame that they can't. I would argue that I am MORE moral without God. God forgives all, apparently. I could sin my way through life and ask his forgiveness and then it's all good again. I hold myself to higher standards.
gibozzo 1 year ago
@CntrBrdr
Because they became eductaed. They once were proclaimers of faith, which by definition means believeing in somehting without prior knowledge. Then they found the knowledge of a thing (IE evidence, and faith automatically dissolved.
Now back to you: how can anyone believe in something they cannot prove and have never proven. Ever. How can anyone believe in somehting which requires faith. This I do not get.
Domzdream 1 year ago
for fuck's sake believers are stupid as shit...it's almost unbearable...
83Hammerhead 1 year ago 6
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dunncyndi001 1 year ago
"Religious" people are hanging on to the shredding strands of mythology. It's so sad that they cling to these imaginary entities. It's hard for them to deal in reality, but it's doable.
phoenixbrew 1 year ago 2
I told you not to investigate that evil! And you did anyway!
Suffer, you fools~!
"Quite nonsensical."
drgoldteef 1 year ago 2
spff.. stupid god people
ikov 1 year ago
love the way the laura "the outspoken ridiculer of atheists" dare not try that BS with hitchens...
mojo972 1 year ago 2
@mojo972 she wouldnt dare! haha
Slugg329 1 year ago