@MadDumbFarce I know you want us to believe you have a PhD in metallurgy. . .However, after spending 8 years in a college atmosphere, (and $200K) the most intelligent thing you can come up with is to tell me a homogenous machette from HomoDepot is superior to a laminated Samurai nihontō ? ? ? Key the circus music !!!!!!!
After some thougts, the only case where a laminated blade may be justified is for extreme cold weather. Any martensitic steel has got a brittle/ductile temperature that can be reached in some places and climates, and that makes the blade extremely fragile. Austenitic steel on the other hand is lot less affected. So if an martensitic core layer was sandwiched between two austenitic steel sides, that would increase the knife chance to survive very cold temps, though the edge still might break.
Cliff is notorious for his strong opinions. Although he creates nothing, he is severely critical of those who create. He is intelligent and educated, but it's hard to listen when he's constantly arguing.
@d3pHc0n If you have read anything of what I have posted, you would realize that is an unfair characterization. It is hardly the case I would need to have a strong opinion on something to actually have an argument about it.
Great video. Also ompressed that you used the proper terminology as in "jig" which guides, versus a fixture, which holds. Too many folks get that turned around, or just plain incorrect.
Sorry about the name calling but I have run out of patience with your trolling. You obviously don't understand metallurgy and are cramming on wiki and still have no grasp of what constitutes real world testing and which tests are proper for knives. You seem to be ok with skewing testing and going to extremes of all sorts to try to appear to win an argument. I feel so embarrassed for you. Life as a "know it all" is going to be full of hard knocks son. A real man can admit a mistake and move on.
Must find time to get a decent set of waterstones and get up to speed. But for the moment when the sharpmaker is not enough, I move from one system to another and reprofile with the Apex Edgepro. So if you use the systems correctly you can get the same result. Just takes a bit more time. I however admit when I add up the cost of the sharpmaker and the Apex and micro paper, I would have been close to the price of a good set of waterstones.
In the DVD the spyderco sharpmaker comes withit tells you after about 10 sharpenings to put your knife in the 30 degree back bevel and it is clearly abeled back bevel on the sharpmaker to take metal away from the secondary bevel. It's not as good as a stone but t can work in a pinch.
Murray, i have a 800/4000 grit king water stone and the white 4000 grit side loads up with metal particles pretty fast. i am soaking it before and during use. what do you think is the problem?
Murray your riding a BMW? Next time your in Atlanta lets get you on my Harley so we can convert you! Carter=Knives USA=Harley. Good grief those BMW's have heated seats and handle bars and are almost like a car. Don't worry I won't tell.
@CarterCutlery Dear Mr. Carter, I a big fan, and I have a great respect for you and your skills and I use what I learnt from you, but I was quite saddened to c u talk about the Spyderco Sharpmaker, when it was deadly obvious that you do not know how it works. I urge you to watch Mr. Sal Glesser show how it works to sharpen both secondary and primary edges, with unbelievable results. Its on the Spyderco page. Strange that a gentleman like yourself would speak before understanding. Best Regards.
@bluehulk83 I guess I am going to have to repeat myself until I am blue in the face. Most of you critics have not watched my sharpening videos (Blade Sharpening Fundamentals, Advanced Blade Sharpening Techniques) and clearly, by your comments, do NOT understand what a secondary edge is. I just watched Sal give his entire demo, and he does NOT address removing steel from the secondary edge. He only shows how to back-bevel. Please folks, watch my videos before you make foolish comments.
@CarterCutlery Sir, I was not critiquing you. I was only asking that you watch it to understand what it was made for, and how it works. For beginners its a life saver, and it works on multiple tools to give great results, (hair shaving, that seems to be something you go by as well) . My point is that Mr. Glesser shows you'll get a great edge with it. You just assumed I dont know what a secondary edge is. Anyway I still have the greatest respect for u Sir, thank you for your reply, best wishes.
just to make it clear. I do understand that a blade will slide easier thru material if the transition from the primary edge to the secondary edge is smoother, but really, for me, the difference doesn't seem that great.
you said it is important for the secondary edge to be maintained, but I didn't really understand why. I use the Lansky(the cheapest) sharpening system with most of my folders. It works great. I strop the blade and my knives are always shaving sharp.
I just recently got a japanese waterstone. I just use it for my scandi edges. For my V-edges I still prefer the Lansky system. Not saying you're wrong but my knives are always sharp.
@SpartanJohns Murray aggressively regrinds the blade profile itself to keep the edge thickness stable. He evaluates the need to do so each time he sharpens. Most people do this very rarely.
I tend to wait until the edge has thickened to the point it is an issue and then regrind it on a belt sander to the minimum.
Working the blade profile grinds on a high carbide steel on a 1000 grit waterstone is also going to be a complete waste of time unless you have hours to spare.
@CliffStamp Hours to grind a blade profile? More reason to buy and use Murray Carter's laminated knives. All the edge retention (if not better) of your homogenous steel knives but way easier to reprofile and sharpen due to the softer anti rust stainless laminates protecting the harder inner core edge material. Then again, like Murray pointed out, if you guys watched his videos you would already know the virtues "of blades and oreo cookies" ( yes, thats Murray in the vid with a ponytail.)
@jedirifleman The wear resistance of Japanese white steel can not compare to the high alloy, high carbide steels which some prefer for long lasting edge retention slicing abrasive media and thus Murray's knives will be seriously out performed.
As well it is a bit of an extreme argument to even imply that only Murray's knives should be bought and there is no value in other makers knives who use steels which do not respond well to profile adjustments on 1000 grit waterstones.
@jedirifleman There are also limits to lamination because it seriously weakens a blade. If you take for example a fillet knife in S90V from Phil Wilson (which would completely ignore a 1000 grit waterstone trying to adjust the blade profile) and laminated it with a very low alloy stainless, you would end up with a blade which would take a set much easier and this would have a significant loss in functionality.
@CliffStamp This statement makes it apparent you do not understand what a laminated blade is, the process behind it and your ignorance of forging. Answer this simple question; is it correct that you have never watch Murray's videos, you've never used his knives, and you're not a certified American Bladesmith Society Master Bladesmith, nor are you a 17th Generation (shoot, any generation) Yoshimoto Bladesmith? You're just someone from the Internet who feels entitled to spew their own ignorance.
@ThingsToBuyMen Yes I have used one of Murray's blades, and a number of other laminated blades and a number of blades from various makers who forge knives, those in the ABS and otherwise. However none of this is necessary to know that laminating steel with a softer and weaker steel doesn't make it stronger.
@CliffStamp Seriously? Only a troll would even think to imply, much less flat out declare on an open forum that a laminated blade isn't tougher than any homogenous blade of equal size, shape, geometry and intended purpose. Do you know what a Samurai sword is? Ever hear of one? Ever hear of a nihontō? kotō? Its almost comical, the extent to which you twist posts and create strawmen and go to extremes to troll this video.
@jedirifleman Strength and toughness are two completely different metallurgical properties. They both have to do with resistance to loading, but they apply on completely different timescales because the ability of steel to move along slip places has a time constraint. I noted specifically that a laminated blade would take a set sooner, i.e., it is weaker, and thus the fillet blade noted would have degraded performance.
@jedirifleman Beyond fillet blades of course, the same applied to lots of other blades. If you were to take a light machete for example in say 1/8" stock and make it a laminated blade with a 1/32" center of 1050 and side clads of say 1010, the blade would become so weak that it would take a set under even moderate lateral loads. The only way to make it of sufficient strength would be to increase the cross section to compensate for the weaker material.
@jedirifleman Again, I have owned one of Murray's blades. I have owned and used blades from other ABS Master Smiths. However we are talking about physics, so lets stick to facts.
Why don't you see if you can get Murray to claim that he can clad one steel with another steel which has a lower UTS point and end up with a composite which has a higher UTS point.
I guarantee you he will not make that statement as it would show complete ignorance of even basic metallurgy.
@CliffStamp Again you go to ignorant, idiotic, imbecillic extremes like filet blades and light machettes. . .sometimes you just have to look in the mirror and admit you are a troll.
@CliffStamp I bet you're the guy on the knife channel that was banging the homogenous steel fake katana on the table and broke it in half stabbing himself with the flying blade tip. Will you ever learn?
@CliffStamp UTS is a pulling test for necking. Are you retarded? Seriously? Are you? Who pulls a knife?Lets try a bend test !!!! Knives can be used improperly for prying and can bend. I never ever heard of even the dumbest troll trying to hook a knife between a pair of trains and pulling it. I really don't think you are smart enough to own a knife. PS; stop searching WIKI to try to impress us since you obviously cant even comprehend what you post from there.
@CliffStamp You say that you owned a knife of Murray's here, but two hours ago you only said that you used one. Which is it? I don't think you have any credibility anyway, but this just puts the nail in the coffin that you're nothing more than a liar.
@ThingsToBuyMen I owned one, that was the one I used. It was simply called a "Camp Knife", 9.5" blade, laminated steel construction. Nice blade if you like the Becker Magnum Camp but I prefer something more like the Junglas in that size range, hence the main reason I sold it. Balance and heft are extremely personal though, I doubt the knife Dan Keffeler is custom making for me would suit a lot of people.
@CliffStamp Are you going to make a knife out of spider silk and compete with it in an edge retention contest? Stone wool knife? You can BS the little kids on your block and your friends at recess but this is the real world and most of us have been farther in life than just around the block. Thinking a UTS test means anything in this world about actual knife performance is ludicrous and dishonest.
@jedirifleman How many thousands of dollars have you invested in Murry's knives, why don't you come clean and admit that you have an extreme bias because of your investment in Murry's knives. Second take some time read up on logical fallacies. Maybe then you will understand how extremely flawed and hypocritical your argument is. Then sit down and realize that absolute material testing means way more then the real world use you spout about endlessly that you haven't actually done.
@Warescrackdown Ride to your lover on your silver steed. defend him. RIDE TO HIM ! He needs you to defend his honor and demonstrate your love. . .idiots travel in pairs it seems.
@jedirifleman Yes, the tensile strength of steel correlates strongly to many of the properties of a knife in use. As just one obvious example, the resistance of an edge to rolling and micro-compression is strongly correlated to the tensile strength of the steel. This is not the only factor which determines the edge stability but it is one of the critical ones, for more information see Messerklingen und Stahl by Landes.
@jedirifleman@jedirifleman What is it like being retarded? The tensile strength of spider silk is only 1000MPa, Many steel alloys exceed this,Kevlar (3,600MPa) as well. Spider silk is only special compared to these other materials because of low density and strain extensibility.
@Warescrackdown listen up retard, high carbon 1090 steel is only 840MPa compared to the spider silk @ 1000MPa so by cliff's claims spidersilk will make a superior knife with superior edge retention to a knife made of 1090 high carbon steel....GOOD LUCK !!! YOU CHOSE THE SIDE OF A GOOFUS !!!!!
@Warescrackdown You are so clueless as to not even to be able to read black and white data. Yet you shoot off your mouth at the drop of a hat. . ."Better to remain silent and be thought of as a fool, than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt."
@jedirifleman A direct quote from you"fiberoptic knife" you are the only one that looks like a fool. You certainly opened your mouth first and removed all doubt. Nor have you provide any data, black or white about performance. You haven't really produced an argument, simply supplied us with endless ad hominems. Please come back when you have actual information to share, either real experience or imperial data you have collected.
@Warescrackdown Yes, cliffstamp, (your other account) Ultra-pure silca glass fiber-optic strands = 4100MPa and are yet another substance you and cliff feel are superior for knife making and edge retention over 1090 high carbon steel @ 840MPa because you prefer tensile strength over any and all other measurments. Like I said, morons seem to travel in packs, monkey see monkey do.
@Warescrackdown FYI ; I don't know anything about your so called "imperial data". I, myself, deal in empirical data. Reading is only 10% son. COMPREHENSION is the big 90% you need help with. Stay in school and eat all your veggies cliff. Life is tough out here for know-it-alls.
@CliffStamp high carbon 1090 steel is only 840MPa compared to the spider silk @ 1000MPa . . . so you think spider silk makes a better knife and has better edge retention than that of 1090? LUDICROUS !!!!!!
@CliffStamp An attempt to avoid eating crow after you defacto claimed that a fiberoptic knife made of a single strand of fiber or a spider silk knife was superior to a 1400's Samurai Koto Tachi. YOU ARE SO FULL OF BS !!!!!!!
@CliffStamp Again, WTF is the point of a pulling test for knives? According to the UTS testing : spider silk, carbon fiber, stone wool (insulation), and fiber optic strands are better than 1090 steel. See how useless of a test you picked??? Do you know anyone who can hold a knife while its being pulled by a diesel locomotive like taffy and maintain a grip to destroy a knife? I know many people who can put a knife in a vice and bend it. In fact THAT IS an ABS TEST !!! Gee whiz imagine that!!
@CliffStamp Take a comprehension class. Then re-read my post. You seem to like to argue and create strawmen. I never said other knives were useless. I never said only buy Murray's knives. My point was clearly to have you buy and try some of them and see their virtues. For you to say a laminated blade is weaker flies in the face of the worldwide known FACT that laminated steel blades are the worlds toughest. Ever hear of a nihontō? kotō? Please learn of what you speak first and don't troll here.
@CliffStamp Please give an example. A real world example. Name a laminated knife that has been laminated by a master that is "weaker" as you say than a homogenous knife for knife tasks. When you speak of "cutting abrasive materials" you are just parroting from wiki articles about "tool cutting heads" and not hand held knives.
@jedirifleman No need to name anything or anybody. That's just the law of physics. For the same thickness and blade profile, a blade made from a single piece of "hard" steel will be stronger (harder to bend) but more brittle (less toughness) than a laminated blade with a "hard" core between two "soft" layers. That last blade will be less brittle, but will bend and will take a set with less force (though the center layer may crack before the sides give away).
And if you say: "I doesn't care cuz I doesnt bent my knifes anyway", then you don't even need a laminated blade, a thinner single piece "hard steel" blade would be enough. You gain regarding weight, ease of making, and blade penetration (less drag in the material, less wedging effect). Now you'll probably call me a retard, an inbred ignorant, and other floral and birdy names, but I don't give a F. Get a life, and try to learn from those who know more than you and you should respect.
@MadNumForce Your UTS test may be great for machine bolts and structural beams and rivets but has no place with knives. Do you have the strength, grip, weight to apply to your knife in a condition to cause necking? Also, to say a homogenous blade is superior to a laminated Koto from 1400's fuedal japan is quite insane.
@MadNumForce Your beloved UTS test methods data indicate spider silk and fiber optics strands are superior to 1090 high carbon steel. It seems a reasonable and prudent man can ascertain that the testing is flawed when it comes to knives and those with reasonable intelligence will ignore such testing. When will a knife ever be subjected to enough pressure or strain to cause necking?
@MadNumForce The only abilities of a knife that matter are ability to hold an edge. How easily it can be resharpened. How well it handles lateral bending under normal conditions and how well it holds up in enviornmental conditions such as extreme cold, heat and moisture and the acids and abrasives of materials cut with the knife. To quote Michel de Montaigne "I prefer the company of peasants because they have not been educated sufficiently to reason incorrectly."
I thought this video was going to be tips and tricks on how to use his sharpening method on double edged blades. More specifically, avoiding being cut with the back edge while you remove metal from the front secondary edge and vice versa.
@mrkittyguy Ironically, with a Tormek (or any other suitable wheel). You can do it freehand, even with the corners of a stone, but it is fairly slow and laborious to do so without an actual wheel to match the diameter.
I would like to see Murray grind the primary down on one of Phil Wilson's knives on a 1000 grit waterstone and still claim that is the optimal abrasive when the majority of the steel due to carbide content is harder than the stone.
After a long day at work I like to unwind and furiously strop my convexed tanto folder until it pops hair and the face of the knife is buttery smooth from all the paste I've applied, the grain of the leather hugging my blade so welcomingly, making for an extremely intense sensation I've yearned all day long for. Wasting no time, I don't hesitate to let all of my comments fly and pour all over into the extended reaches of youtube. Wtf is right with me...
Also, I wanted to add that I respect you and absolutely love your cutlery. I guess we don't see eye to eye on some things, but I still have much respect.
Mr. Carter, as a TRUE lover of cutlery, and not a salesman, I am happy when people get their first sharp edge using ANY method that works for them. I don't understand why you don't share that enthusiasm with me.
Fact is, not everyone can free hand sharpen. By your logic, if one can't free hand sharpen on Japanese water stones, then they don't deserve to have a sharp edge. There are MANY ways to skin a cat. Your method is great, but it's not the be all end all.
Murray, I understand your reasoning behind why most of those devices are inadequate, and I agree. I don't understand why you include the tormek wet grinder in this class, unless it's the jigs you are referring to. I have a tormek with 220 grit and 4000 grit 10" waterstones that I love for taking a lot of the work away when I sharpen knives for people. I've never used a jig on it. I do it all free-hand, then finish on quality waterstones. I've not found a better system.
@MRSketch09 Yea. I know. Ok, my bad. Not so fair either. FWIW, I largely agree with some of his opinions about the system kits available, not to mention how expensive some can be. Just so everyone knows, I subscribe to Murray's channel, and I have thoroughly enjoyed, appreciated, and favorited some of his videos. I was kinda addicted to some of the Japan videos and some of the ones where he doles out the information freely. It's just hard to tell when I'm gonna receive a pitch or be entertained.
@rixcat Yup. I'm not too thrilled with his current trend of commercials bashing products he doesn't sell instead of actual information. To answer his question, yes I use my Wicked Edge all the time and ALWAYS get a "razor sharp" edge. I am unsubbing if this trend continues.
@rixcat What I really meant to say is, Great commercial. :-D Perhaps I will buy that book. I'm sure it is worth every penny. It's just, that for me, I like watching YouTube for a good time, and when I see commercials I cringe a little and sometimes a lot. I know that he's got a lot of self promotion to do, and more power to ya Murray, you deserve the attention with all your experience. I wish you the best and look forward to your next video that I really enjoy and favorite again. Peace bro.
@MadDumbFarce I know you want us to believe you have a PhD in metallurgy. . .However, after spending 8 years in a college atmosphere, (and $200K) the most intelligent thing you can come up with is to tell me a homogenous machette from HomoDepot is superior to a laminated Samurai nihontō ? ? ? Key the circus music !!!!!!!
jedirifleman 3 days ago
After some thougts, the only case where a laminated blade may be justified is for extreme cold weather. Any martensitic steel has got a brittle/ductile temperature that can be reached in some places and climates, and that makes the blade extremely fragile. Austenitic steel on the other hand is lot less affected. So if an martensitic core layer was sandwiched between two austenitic steel sides, that would increase the knife chance to survive very cold temps, though the edge still might break.
MadNumForce 3 weeks ago
You guys done yet?
d3pHc0n 4 weeks ago
Cliff is notorious for his strong opinions. Although he creates nothing, he is severely critical of those who create. He is intelligent and educated, but it's hard to listen when he's constantly arguing.
d3pHc0n 4 weeks ago
@d3pHc0n If you have read anything of what I have posted, you would realize that is an unfair characterization. It is hardly the case I would need to have a strong opinion on something to actually have an argument about it.
CliffStamp 4 weeks ago
Great video. Also ompressed that you used the proper terminology as in "jig" which guides, versus a fixture, which holds. Too many folks get that turned around, or just plain incorrect.
DannoCrutch 4 weeks ago
Sorry about the name calling but I have run out of patience with your trolling. You obviously don't understand metallurgy and are cramming on wiki and still have no grasp of what constitutes real world testing and which tests are proper for knives. You seem to be ok with skewing testing and going to extremes of all sorts to try to appear to win an argument. I feel so embarrassed for you. Life as a "know it all" is going to be full of hard knocks son. A real man can admit a mistake and move on.
jedirifleman 4 weeks ago
If it's about cutlery, and states an opinion, jdavis and cliff will be there, fighting for what's important.
d3pHc0n 1 month ago
Must find time to get a decent set of waterstones and get up to speed. But for the moment when the sharpmaker is not enough, I move from one system to another and reprofile with the Apex Edgepro. So if you use the systems correctly you can get the same result. Just takes a bit more time. I however admit when I add up the cost of the sharpmaker and the Apex and micro paper, I would have been close to the price of a good set of waterstones.
1lupus 1 month ago
In the DVD the spyderco sharpmaker comes withit tells you after about 10 sharpenings to put your knife in the 30 degree back bevel and it is clearly abeled back bevel on the sharpmaker to take metal away from the secondary bevel. It's not as good as a stone but t can work in a pinch.
pennfootball71 1 month ago
i am not fond of Murray's new style it seems as if he is a walking advertisement i think it would do him good to go back to his old style
MikeNelson216 1 month ago
Murray, i have a 800/4000 grit king water stone and the white 4000 grit side loads up with metal particles pretty fast. i am soaking it before and during use. what do you think is the problem?
ironlionkalo 1 month ago
Murray your riding a BMW? Next time your in Atlanta lets get you on my Harley so we can convert you! Carter=Knives USA=Harley. Good grief those BMW's have heated seats and handle bars and are almost like a car. Don't worry I won't tell.
Nebulax123 1 month ago
@Nebulax123 Murray has had a Harley and a Buell and he says he has finally found the perfect riding machine for his needs.
CarterCutlery 1 month ago
@CarterCutlery I will pretend I didn't see that. *LOL*
Nebulax123 1 month ago
@CarterCutlery Dear Mr. Carter, I a big fan, and I have a great respect for you and your skills and I use what I learnt from you, but I was quite saddened to c u talk about the Spyderco Sharpmaker, when it was deadly obvious that you do not know how it works. I urge you to watch Mr. Sal Glesser show how it works to sharpen both secondary and primary edges, with unbelievable results. Its on the Spyderco page. Strange that a gentleman like yourself would speak before understanding. Best Regards.
bluehulk83 1 month ago
@bluehulk83 I guess I am going to have to repeat myself until I am blue in the face. Most of you critics have not watched my sharpening videos (Blade Sharpening Fundamentals, Advanced Blade Sharpening Techniques) and clearly, by your comments, do NOT understand what a secondary edge is. I just watched Sal give his entire demo, and he does NOT address removing steel from the secondary edge. He only shows how to back-bevel. Please folks, watch my videos before you make foolish comments.
CarterCutlery 1 month ago 4
@CarterCutlery Sir, I was not critiquing you. I was only asking that you watch it to understand what it was made for, and how it works. For beginners its a life saver, and it works on multiple tools to give great results, (hair shaving, that seems to be something you go by as well) . My point is that Mr. Glesser shows you'll get a great edge with it. You just assumed I dont know what a secondary edge is. Anyway I still have the greatest respect for u Sir, thank you for your reply, best wishes.
bluehulk83 1 month ago
just to make it clear. I do understand that a blade will slide easier thru material if the transition from the primary edge to the secondary edge is smoother, but really, for me, the difference doesn't seem that great.
SpartanJohns 1 month ago
you said it is important for the secondary edge to be maintained, but I didn't really understand why. I use the Lansky(the cheapest) sharpening system with most of my folders. It works great. I strop the blade and my knives are always shaving sharp.
I just recently got a japanese waterstone. I just use it for my scandi edges. For my V-edges I still prefer the Lansky system. Not saying you're wrong but my knives are always sharp.
SpartanJohns 1 month ago
@SpartanJohns Murray aggressively regrinds the blade profile itself to keep the edge thickness stable. He evaluates the need to do so each time he sharpens. Most people do this very rarely.
I tend to wait until the edge has thickened to the point it is an issue and then regrind it on a belt sander to the minimum.
Working the blade profile grinds on a high carbide steel on a 1000 grit waterstone is also going to be a complete waste of time unless you have hours to spare.
CliffStamp 1 month ago
@CliffStamp Hours to grind a blade profile? More reason to buy and use Murray Carter's laminated knives. All the edge retention (if not better) of your homogenous steel knives but way easier to reprofile and sharpen due to the softer anti rust stainless laminates protecting the harder inner core edge material. Then again, like Murray pointed out, if you guys watched his videos you would already know the virtues "of blades and oreo cookies" ( yes, thats Murray in the vid with a ponytail.)
jedirifleman 1 month ago
@jedirifleman The wear resistance of Japanese white steel can not compare to the high alloy, high carbide steels which some prefer for long lasting edge retention slicing abrasive media and thus Murray's knives will be seriously out performed.
As well it is a bit of an extreme argument to even imply that only Murray's knives should be bought and there is no value in other makers knives who use steels which do not respond well to profile adjustments on 1000 grit waterstones.
CliffStamp 4 weeks ago
@jedirifleman There are also limits to lamination because it seriously weakens a blade. If you take for example a fillet knife in S90V from Phil Wilson (which would completely ignore a 1000 grit waterstone trying to adjust the blade profile) and laminated it with a very low alloy stainless, you would end up with a blade which would take a set much easier and this would have a significant loss in functionality.
CliffStamp 4 weeks ago
@CliffStamp This statement makes it apparent you do not understand what a laminated blade is, the process behind it and your ignorance of forging. Answer this simple question; is it correct that you have never watch Murray's videos, you've never used his knives, and you're not a certified American Bladesmith Society Master Bladesmith, nor are you a 17th Generation (shoot, any generation) Yoshimoto Bladesmith? You're just someone from the Internet who feels entitled to spew their own ignorance.
ThingsToBuyMen 4 weeks ago
@ThingsToBuyMen Yes I have used one of Murray's blades, and a number of other laminated blades and a number of blades from various makers who forge knives, those in the ABS and otherwise. However none of this is necessary to know that laminating steel with a softer and weaker steel doesn't make it stronger.
CliffStamp 4 weeks ago
Comment removed
jedirifleman 4 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@CliffStamp Seriously? Only a troll would even think to imply, much less flat out declare on an open forum that a laminated blade isn't tougher than any homogenous blade of equal size, shape, geometry and intended purpose. Do you know what a Samurai sword is? Ever hear of one? Ever hear of a nihontō? kotō? Its almost comical, the extent to which you twist posts and create strawmen and go to extremes to troll this video.
jedirifleman 4 weeks ago
Comment removed
jedirifleman 4 weeks ago
@jedirifleman Strength and toughness are two completely different metallurgical properties. They both have to do with resistance to loading, but they apply on completely different timescales because the ability of steel to move along slip places has a time constraint. I noted specifically that a laminated blade would take a set sooner, i.e., it is weaker, and thus the fillet blade noted would have degraded performance.
CliffStamp 4 weeks ago
@jedirifleman Beyond fillet blades of course, the same applied to lots of other blades. If you were to take a light machete for example in say 1/8" stock and make it a laminated blade with a 1/32" center of 1050 and side clads of say 1010, the blade would become so weak that it would take a set under even moderate lateral loads. The only way to make it of sufficient strength would be to increase the cross section to compensate for the weaker material.
CliffStamp 4 weeks ago
@jedirifleman Again, I have owned one of Murray's blades. I have owned and used blades from other ABS Master Smiths. However we are talking about physics, so lets stick to facts.
Why don't you see if you can get Murray to claim that he can clad one steel with another steel which has a lower UTS point and end up with a composite which has a higher UTS point.
I guarantee you he will not make that statement as it would show complete ignorance of even basic metallurgy.
CliffStamp 4 weeks ago
@CliffStamp Again you go to ignorant, idiotic, imbecillic extremes like filet blades and light machettes. . .sometimes you just have to look in the mirror and admit you are a troll.
jedirifleman 4 weeks ago
@CliffStamp I bet you're the guy on the knife channel that was banging the homogenous steel fake katana on the table and broke it in half stabbing himself with the flying blade tip. Will you ever learn?
jedirifleman 4 weeks ago
@CliffStamp UTS is a pulling test for necking. Are you retarded? Seriously? Are you? Who pulls a knife?Lets try a bend test !!!! Knives can be used improperly for prying and can bend. I never ever heard of even the dumbest troll trying to hook a knife between a pair of trains and pulling it. I really don't think you are smart enough to own a knife. PS; stop searching WIKI to try to impress us since you obviously cant even comprehend what you post from there.
jedirifleman 4 weeks ago
@CliffStamp <<<<<<<<<<<<<TROLL alert !!!!!!!
jedirifleman 4 weeks ago
@CliffStamp You say that you owned a knife of Murray's here, but two hours ago you only said that you used one. Which is it? I don't think you have any credibility anyway, but this just puts the nail in the coffin that you're nothing more than a liar.
ThingsToBuyMen 4 weeks ago 3
@ThingsToBuyMen I owned one, that was the one I used. It was simply called a "Camp Knife", 9.5" blade, laminated steel construction. Nice blade if you like the Becker Magnum Camp but I prefer something more like the Junglas in that size range, hence the main reason I sold it. Balance and heft are extremely personal though, I doubt the knife Dan Keffeler is custom making for me would suit a lot of people.
CliffStamp 4 weeks ago
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jedirifleman 4 weeks ago
@CliffStamp Are you going to make a knife out of spider silk and compete with it in an edge retention contest? Stone wool knife? You can BS the little kids on your block and your friends at recess but this is the real world and most of us have been farther in life than just around the block. Thinking a UTS test means anything in this world about actual knife performance is ludicrous and dishonest.
jedirifleman 4 weeks ago
@jedirifleman How many thousands of dollars have you invested in Murry's knives, why don't you come clean and admit that you have an extreme bias because of your investment in Murry's knives. Second take some time read up on logical fallacies. Maybe then you will understand how extremely flawed and hypocritical your argument is. Then sit down and realize that absolute material testing means way more then the real world use you spout about endlessly that you haven't actually done.
Warescrackdown 4 weeks ago
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jedirifleman 4 weeks ago
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@Warescrackdown Ride to your lover on your silver steed. defend him. RIDE TO HIM ! He needs you to defend his honor and demonstrate your love. . .idiots travel in pairs it seems.
jedirifleman 4 weeks ago
@jedirifleman Yes, the tensile strength of steel correlates strongly to many of the properties of a knife in use. As just one obvious example, the resistance of an edge to rolling and micro-compression is strongly correlated to the tensile strength of the steel. This is not the only factor which determines the edge stability but it is one of the critical ones, for more information see Messerklingen und Stahl by Landes.
CliffStamp 4 weeks ago
@CliffStamp You read it first then forge your spider silk knife for testing.
jedirifleman 4 weeks ago
@CliffStamp Still waiting to see your spider silk knife go up against even a walmart buck 119.
jedirifleman 4 weeks ago
@jedirifleman @jedirifleman What is it like being retarded? The tensile strength of spider silk is only 1000MPa, Many steel alloys exceed this,Kevlar (3,600MPa) as well. Spider silk is only special compared to these other materials because of low density and strain extensibility.
Warescrackdown 4 weeks ago
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jedirifleman 4 weeks ago
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@Warescrackdown listen up retard, high carbon 1090 steel is only 840MPa compared to the spider silk @ 1000MPa so by cliff's claims spidersilk will make a superior knife with superior edge retention to a knife made of 1090 high carbon steel....GOOD LUCK !!! YOU CHOSE THE SIDE OF A GOOFUS !!!!!
jedirifleman 4 weeks ago
@Warescrackdown PS; are you the guy who wants to out shave Murray with a tuna can lid? Just wondering. You seem just as comical.
jedirifleman 4 weeks ago
@jedirifleman Come back when you can make a coherent argument.
Warescrackdown 4 weeks ago
@Warescrackdown It is so easy to confuse your inability to comprehend with my ability to make you look foolish.
jedirifleman 4 weeks ago
@Warescrackdown You are so clueless as to not even to be able to read black and white data. Yet you shoot off your mouth at the drop of a hat. . ."Better to remain silent and be thought of as a fool, than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt."
jedirifleman 4 weeks ago
@jedirifleman A direct quote from you"fiberoptic knife" you are the only one that looks like a fool. You certainly opened your mouth first and removed all doubt. Nor have you provide any data, black or white about performance. You haven't really produced an argument, simply supplied us with endless ad hominems. Please come back when you have actual information to share, either real experience or imperial data you have collected.
Warescrackdown 4 weeks ago
@Warescrackdown You just removed all doubt.
jedirifleman 4 weeks ago
@Warescrackdown Yes, cliffstamp, (your other account) Ultra-pure silca glass fiber-optic strands = 4100MPa and are yet another substance you and cliff feel are superior for knife making and edge retention over 1090 high carbon steel @ 840MPa because you prefer tensile strength over any and all other measurments. Like I said, morons seem to travel in packs, monkey see monkey do.
jedirifleman 4 weeks ago
@Warescrackdown The data is on any UTS document for tensile strength. Don't be such a ding bat. You can google can't you?
jedirifleman 4 weeks ago
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jedirifleman 4 weeks ago
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@Warescrackdown FYI ; I don't know anything about your so called "imperial data". I, myself, deal in empirical data. Reading is only 10% son. COMPREHENSION is the big 90% you need help with. Stay in school and eat all your veggies cliff. Life is tough out here for know-it-alls.
jedirifleman 4 weeks ago
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@CliffStamp high carbon 1090 steel is only 840MPa compared to the spider silk @ 1000MPa . . . so you think spider silk makes a better knife and has better edge retention than that of 1090? LUDICROUS !!!!!!
jedirifleman 4 weeks ago
@CliffStamp An attempt to avoid eating crow after you defacto claimed that a fiberoptic knife made of a single strand of fiber or a spider silk knife was superior to a 1400's Samurai Koto Tachi. YOU ARE SO FULL OF BS !!!!!!!
jedirifleman 4 weeks ago
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@CliffStamp Again, WTF is the point of a pulling test for knives? According to the UTS testing : spider silk, carbon fiber, stone wool (insulation), and fiber optic strands are better than 1090 steel. See how useless of a test you picked??? Do you know anyone who can hold a knife while its being pulled by a diesel locomotive like taffy and maintain a grip to destroy a knife? I know many people who can put a knife in a vice and bend it. In fact THAT IS an ABS TEST !!! Gee whiz imagine that!!
jedirifleman 4 weeks ago
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@CliffStamp Take a comprehension class. Then re-read my post. You seem to like to argue and create strawmen. I never said other knives were useless. I never said only buy Murray's knives. My point was clearly to have you buy and try some of them and see their virtues. For you to say a laminated blade is weaker flies in the face of the worldwide known FACT that laminated steel blades are the worlds toughest. Ever hear of a nihontō? kotō? Please learn of what you speak first and don't troll here.
jedirifleman 4 weeks ago
@CliffStamp Please give an example. A real world example. Name a laminated knife that has been laminated by a master that is "weaker" as you say than a homogenous knife for knife tasks. When you speak of "cutting abrasive materials" you are just parroting from wiki articles about "tool cutting heads" and not hand held knives.
jedirifleman 4 weeks ago
@jedirifleman No need to name anything or anybody. That's just the law of physics. For the same thickness and blade profile, a blade made from a single piece of "hard" steel will be stronger (harder to bend) but more brittle (less toughness) than a laminated blade with a "hard" core between two "soft" layers. That last blade will be less brittle, but will bend and will take a set with less force (though the center layer may crack before the sides give away).
MadNumForce 4 weeks ago
And if you say: "I doesn't care cuz I doesnt bent my knifes anyway", then you don't even need a laminated blade, a thinner single piece "hard steel" blade would be enough. You gain regarding weight, ease of making, and blade penetration (less drag in the material, less wedging effect). Now you'll probably call me a retard, an inbred ignorant, and other floral and birdy names, but I don't give a F. Get a life, and try to learn from those who know more than you and you should respect.
MadNumForce 4 weeks ago
@MadNumForce I have no need to point out the obvious.
jedirifleman 3 days ago
@MadNumForce It is so easy to confuse your inability to comprehend with my ability to make you look foolish.
jedirifleman 3 days ago
@MadNumForce Your UTS test may be great for machine bolts and structural beams and rivets but has no place with knives. Do you have the strength, grip, weight to apply to your knife in a condition to cause necking? Also, to say a homogenous blade is superior to a laminated Koto from 1400's fuedal japan is quite insane.
jedirifleman 3 days ago
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jedirifleman 3 days ago
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@MadNumForce Your beloved UTS test methods data indicate spider silk and fiber optics strands are superior to 1090 high carbon steel. It seems a reasonable and prudent man can ascertain that the testing is flawed when it comes to knives and those with reasonable intelligence will ignore such testing. When will a knife ever be subjected to enough pressure or strain to cause necking?
jedirifleman 3 days ago
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jedirifleman 3 days ago
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@MadNumForce The only abilities of a knife that matter are ability to hold an edge. How easily it can be resharpened. How well it handles lateral bending under normal conditions and how well it holds up in enviornmental conditions such as extreme cold, heat and moisture and the acids and abrasives of materials cut with the knife. To quote Michel de Montaigne "I prefer the company of peasants because they have not been educated sufficiently to reason incorrectly."
jedirifleman 3 days ago
@MadNumForce Please go back and read the argument over. You may be too stupid to get what I said but give it a try.
jedirifleman 3 days ago
Glock 19?
DudeNumberOnePlus 1 month ago
@DudeNumberOnePlus Murray's gun of choice is a Glock 20 10mm. He's fond of shooting an 8" x 10" plate at 100 yards. He rarely misses.
CarterCutlery 1 month ago
@CarterCutlery Kudos then. I draw the line at .45
DudeNumberOnePlus 1 month ago
Murray Carter -- entering the scene like a boss!
rbechard 1 month ago
It appears that you were carrying a pistol when you got off your bike, What brand do you carry?
biguy525 1 month ago
I thought this video was going to be tips and tricks on how to use his sharpening method on double edged blades. More specifically, avoiding being cut with the back edge while you remove metal from the front secondary edge and vice versa.
hathiphnath 1 month ago
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hathiphnath 1 month ago
God I love BMW Motorcyles.. they ride so well
knivesandstuff 1 month ago
How would you sharpen the secondary edge in a hollow ground blade?
mrkittyguy 1 month ago
@mrkittyguy Ironically, with a Tormek (or any other suitable wheel). You can do it freehand, even with the corners of a stone, but it is fairly slow and laborious to do so without an actual wheel to match the diameter.
I would like to see Murray grind the primary down on one of Phil Wilson's knives on a 1000 grit waterstone and still claim that is the optimal abrasive when the majority of the steel due to carbide content is harder than the stone.
CliffStamp 1 month ago
5:05, Yes :p. And I dont have waterstones :p
razorsharptravis 1 month ago
After a long day at work I like to unwind and furiously strop my convexed tanto folder until it pops hair and the face of the knife is buttery smooth from all the paste I've applied, the grain of the leather hugging my blade so welcomingly, making for an extremely intense sensation I've yearned all day long for. Wasting no time, I don't hesitate to let all of my comments fly and pour all over into the extended reaches of youtube. Wtf is right with me...
1ch190 1 month ago
Also, I wanted to add that I respect you and absolutely love your cutlery. I guess we don't see eye to eye on some things, but I still have much respect.
jdavis882 1 month ago 2
Mr. Carter, as a TRUE lover of cutlery, and not a salesman, I am happy when people get their first sharp edge using ANY method that works for them. I don't understand why you don't share that enthusiasm with me.
Fact is, not everyone can free hand sharpen. By your logic, if one can't free hand sharpen on Japanese water stones, then they don't deserve to have a sharp edge. There are MANY ways to skin a cat. Your method is great, but it's not the be all end all.
jdavis882 1 month ago 2
Wow. The video production value has changed quite a bit over the years too! I dunno. I kinda like the old videos. =)
robertharder 1 month ago
Murray, I understand your reasoning behind why most of those devices are inadequate, and I agree. I don't understand why you include the tormek wet grinder in this class, unless it's the jigs you are referring to. I have a tormek with 220 grit and 4000 grit 10" waterstones that I love for taking a lot of the work away when I sharpen knives for people. I've never used a jig on it. I do it all free-hand, then finish on quality waterstones. I've not found a better system.
ArtistBlade1972 1 month ago
At 5-minutes into the video I realized that I was watching an advertisement and that I wasn't going to be enlightened or entertained.
rixcat 1 month ago 2
@rixcat Its his business to make and sharpen knives, what do you expect? lol
MRSketch09 1 month ago
@MRSketch09 Yea. I know. Ok, my bad. Not so fair either. FWIW, I largely agree with some of his opinions about the system kits available, not to mention how expensive some can be. Just so everyone knows, I subscribe to Murray's channel, and I have thoroughly enjoyed, appreciated, and favorited some of his videos. I was kinda addicted to some of the Japan videos and some of the ones where he doles out the information freely. It's just hard to tell when I'm gonna receive a pitch or be entertained.
rixcat 1 month ago
@rixcat Yup. I'm not too thrilled with his current trend of commercials bashing products he doesn't sell instead of actual information. To answer his question, yes I use my Wicked Edge all the time and ALWAYS get a "razor sharp" edge. I am unsubbing if this trend continues.
trenton111 1 month ago
@rixcat What I really meant to say is, Great commercial. :-D Perhaps I will buy that book. I'm sure it is worth every penny. It's just, that for me, I like watching YouTube for a good time, and when I see commercials I cringe a little and sometimes a lot. I know that he's got a lot of self promotion to do, and more power to ya Murray, you deserve the attention with all your experience. I wish you the best and look forward to your next video that I really enjoy and favorite again. Peace bro.
rixcat 1 month ago