Interesting discourse. I agree that the best your theory can point to is a deist God, a God who established teh universe and all its laws but cannot and chooses not to intervene in human affairs because to do so would be to contradict God's perfect laws. In other words, the God of humans: Judaism, Christianity, Islam etc cannot be the God you are talking about. But I still do not see why your God has to have free will to choose to do the big bang.
Judging from your constant lip smacking and general pompous facial expressions - I think you make these videos to affirm a self-image of intellect and academia rather than proving the existence of god. I DID however take a look at one of your videos with "therationalskeptic" (who also seems like a very dull, empty young man with nothing to say of great worth) and he destroys you're argument without fail. You have yet to offer any new or profound metaphysical theories to youtube. I'd stop now
I think your arguments about choice are a bit hollow. In nature there are many random spontaneous processes which occur eg. decay in a nucleus. Furthermore in the mind boggling field of quantum uncertainty where a particle will only 'choose' its' state when measured, random choice is well known about. I think your logic points to an Einsteinian 'God'. Nothing in logic can point you to a god mentioned in any of the world's religions.
2) So you believe that there was a being that created the universe. That doesn't prove that being is appropriate to worship. It doesn't prove a single thing in the bible. It doesn't prove any religion right or wrong. The title is misleading. You are not proving the God that theists wish to hear about. You are 'proving' what many scientists believe in. The title 'God's Existence' evokes confusion and supernaturalits jump to conclusions. You are proving an 'Einsteinian' God, not a religious one.
1) You argued and believe that without time no change can take place. You argued and believe that before the universe there was no time. I don't see how the fact that 'whatever caused the universe to be created was a conscious being' means that being could have created the universe. According to what you said, nothing can occur if there is no time.
Um...You replied to me first. I assumed you wanted to have a discussion about arguments for the existence of God. But I guess you were more interested in reaffirming your worldview than dealing with arguments that challenge against it. What a shame.
IF God exists, he would have to either exist outside of time and thus be completely inactive, or he would have to exist within time and thus be unable to be the first cause. “he has no potency”…I thought he was supposed to be OMNI-potent? As for time being limited, it would be limited in so far as existence is limited. Isn’t saying that something existed at no moment in time the same as saying that something is nonexistent? To answer your step 1, I don’t believe in God at all.
In order to say that God created the universe, you have to say that God existed before the universe. And since the universe includes time, you have to say that God existed before time. But there can't be a "before time" since "before" cannot exist until time exists.
Time is needed in order for any action to take place. If God truly is outside of time, then he cannot take any action. He is frozen, disabled, and powerless. An unchanging God is an impotent God.
If he cannot change, then he cannot create. The act of creation is a change. First God existed, then God brought the universe into existence, then God existed with the universe. That is a change in state.
3. The idea of free will is also a bit of an issue because you seem to define it as being free from causes. God is said to have free will because nothing made him create the universe. Well, then he would (potentially) be the only example of free will we know of. Although we are conscious beings, our actions, thoughts, and feelings can all be traced back through a chain of causes. I am writing this now because the sequence of events prior to this has compelled me to do so.
2. If God exists outside of time and is therefore unchanging then how could the universe have been made at all? Surely the creation of the universe requires some change to occur and therefore require time to have already existed. Free will (if it exists) requires time to be carried out. Unless God is also outside the realm of logic, in which case it would be futile to approach the idea of his existence logically at all.
1. The idea of time being created is logically incoherent. As you said yourself, time is required for change. If there is no time before time, then there is no way to change from no time to time. Introducing a supernatural force that created time itself would only work if that supernatural force had its own realm of time in which to enact change. But then where did THAT realm of time come from? So really, the only way for time to exist now is if it always existed.
Let's say for the moment that I accept your arguments for the existence of god, and agree with you that there is indeed a god, which god am I supposed to believe in and worship?
Do follow the monotheistic path? If so, what makes Christianity more valid than Judaism or Islam? What about polytheism? What makes their theology less valid than monotheism?
HonestThiest, I think this is a good start. But I see one fundamental flaw. You've yet to define what GOD is. If you cannot define GOD then we can only presume that you are arguing for a creator in general. That creator could be, satan, ghostly figures, or any number of supernatural creatures.
You make a good argument that if you believe in a big bang then there certain prerequisites of consciousness and time that cannot be ignored - fundamentally a little knowledge is a dangerous thing and the answer to this one is right in front of you- in your keyboard!
intrigued? then follow these instructions...
For PC:
Switch on the 'Num lock' and press and HOLD the 'Alt' key,
Even our human senses are pretty limited (APART from possibly eye sight!) most mammals are equipped with better ears, better noses and some even have a "third eye" for orientation in nature. If God created us, why so faulty ?
@MrSKINFLICK faulty? who is on top of the food chain?? he gave us a brain.. the ability to dream and think the impossible.. god created everything... so the animals are also his creation...
Dear Honest theist, ever made up your mind about the fact that these are all HUMAN ideas+that it is generally acknowledged(even by god-believers+organized relugions)that our brains are fallible+also quite limited. It could be that the human race will NEDVER be able to achieve certain dreams, i.e. space flight over lightyears of distance etc etc - so why should our ideas about what we fantasize about a so-called god, "eternity", our ideas about "time",the "universe" etc etc BE RIGHT?
OK allow me to humor your opinion for a moment. God existed before the universe and is the unchanging, all powerful, creator of everything. OK here are my questions. 1. Where do the things God creates come from? 2. Are Gods creations a window into Gods thoughts? 3. Why did God create a system that relies on death for life to feed itself and then later teach humans that death was a punishment for mans rebellion into sin? Please be respectful and answer these questions honestly, no guessing OK !!!
@AHappyAtheist our brains are limited, we will never be able to know if god exists or not.. the questions u ask only god knows.. we can guess and make theories up but we will never know. to be able to sustain life on earth we need to die otherwise over populated...
2nd message to this video's uploader: I am still awaiting confirmation of intent. I am unable to send personal messages to you as you have deactivated that option from your channel. Please send a personal message with your reasons for contacting me so that I may comprehend the reasoning you had behind sending me a friend invite.
Its a pity many can and will only rely on logical arguments in order to recognize the Creator.
ROMANS
{1:19} Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them. {1:20} For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that THEY ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE.
PSALM
{14:1} The fool hath said in his heart: there is no God
"The fool hath said in his heart: there is no God"
And the wise person said it out loud, and with the brain.
Honestly - scripture that warns you that anybody who doesn't believe it is a fool? You think that's actually worth something? A holy book that needs to resort to insulting anybody who won't worship its "god"? That's just sad.
@infideluxe You would be foolish to deny there is a computer screen before you; you would be foolish to deny there is a God. That was the essence of it all. I bet if you saw that in a fortune cookie you'd probably be more receptive. lol
Seek Christ while you still can my friend. Arguments are fruitless. The gospel of Jesus Christ is the most redemptive power known to mankind. Don't cast it away because of your "logic".
A creation requires a creator, a formation requires circumstances. the big bang formed the universe, and god was the one that created it. the difference is imperative.
2:24 "so we have to say it was something supernatural"
Thats what called an "argument by ignorance" and you've downgraded it by referring it to as a "something" instead of a "someone".
Being honest to others is one thing, i know you know better then that mr theist.
The concept of time has no beginning and no end, nor is it circular.
Like i said, time is a psychological tool to interpret our invironment, apart from what we subjectively can measure with our self invented earth based biased minutes and seconds. it does not reflect reality for what it is.
Time did not start with the big bang, time started when humans began to grasp understanding of concepts as past, present and future. Somewhere around the earliest sunworshippers in prehistory.
Time does not exist, can anyone grasp that idea? that time is only subject to the mind, a concept realised only by the ability to discern one moment from another, to chronolize it, and being able to use that information in a practical manner.
A clock proves nothing, its manmade design is merely based on the natural occurance of the rotation of the earth, signifying a single day as twelve hours, a priciple we inherited from the Babylonians.
Time is a psychological tool, to measure and predict.
what is the proof there was no time before the big bang. the big bang is only a theory and there was definitely something prior, no proof it was any of the things you say any more than our current universe is those things.. is the universe god.
@godnmyhands Well, we can't even see all of the universe, just the visible parts. So you must admit you cannot know god if you cannot know the universe, no? The leftover microwave radiation, apparently from the big bang, is fairly well documented. Science is good at figuring out what we know for sure and getting the best explanation for what we aren't positive on. You didn't know that? Prove God exists. Prove telling a lie is always a sin, thing is you can't. Soooo, where does that leave us?
You are spewing unverifiable and unproven theories. If your quest for attention has been fulfilled, the one for the proof of God's existence has not. Why you want to be my friend when I don't know you and you most visibly disagree with my views on this subject is beyond me, and is quite annoying.
YOU SENT ME A MESSAGE ASKING ME TO BE A 'FRIEND'. I CAN'T IMAGINE WHY, AS I PREFER THE COMPANY OF THOSE FREE FROM MENTAL DELUSIONS. HOWEVER, IT MAY BE THAT YOU WISH TO TELL ME THE GOOD NEWS ABOUT JESUS. ASIDE FROM THE FACT THAT I'VE HEARD IT ALL BEFORE AND I HAVE THE FEELING THAT YOU WILL HAVE NOTHING NEW TO OFFER, FINE BY ME. IF THIS IS THE CASE, LET IT BE BY PM AND YOU CAN KICK-START IT. YOU'LL NEED TO UNBLOCK :)
WHAT BASIS DO YOU HAVE FOR ASSERTING THAT TIME DID NOT EXIST BEFORE THE EXPANSION OF THE SINGULARITY? THE ACTUAL POSITION IS THAT WE HAVE NO MEANS OF MEASURING TIME BEFORE THAT MOMENT AND, THEREFORE, FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES, MEASURABLE TIME BEGAN AT THE MOMENT OF EXPANSION. NEVERTHELESS, TIME DID EXIST BEFORE.
BEFORE THE ACCUMULATION OF THE MATERIALS NECESSARY FOR THE SINGULARITY TO FORM, CONDITIONS WERE CHANGING. TIME EXISTED. WE JUST CAN'T QUANTIFY IT.
well anything could be anything. The truth is, unless we actually know something, we should just be honest and stick to "i dont know." No one does, no one can, and until we do, it's the most logical to claim no special knowledge either way. Even if I shrug off science, it certainly does not indicate why i should grasp theism. It's claims dont strike me as any more true than any other proposition. I remain agnostic.
Imagine a puddle thinking, 'This is a perfect world and a perfect hole I find myself in. Fits me perfectly. Its so perfect it must be made for me!' This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it's still frantically hanging on to the notion that everything's going to be all right, because this world was meant to have him in it. So the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise.
@y0nd3r agree. the anthropic principles at work...we happen to be in universe where we can exist, so therefore we claim that the universe was made for us.
The fine-tuning argument and other recent intelligent design arguments are modern versions of God of the gaps reasoning, where a God is deemed necessary whenever science has not fully explained some phenomenon.
I dont need to indicate an existing being that can freely choose to do something without being conscious as a rebuttal. All I need to do is say that there is an unconscious being outside of nature that is able to freely choose and we can't understand how it can do it, in the same way as u arbitrarily choose to say that god is conscious and can make choices even in a situation where time doesnt exist. or can you perhaps tell me of any creature that can perform an action in the absence of time?
Until scientists figure out what time is, we should be comfortable in saying 'we don't yet know'. We could use philosophy to imagine any number of scenarios, all of them unsupported by verifiable facts. It doesn't matter the odds against us being here. The fact is we are. Its improper to say until we know how things started, we will say god did it. That is only supported by philosophy, not facts.
I think that if you explode a orange, some of the part's would be destroyd and some would get thrown away, some of the part's would end up far away, some would end up near the explosion. As big bang. some of the part's that was thrown away did not get out of control and therefore stopped at the right moment, forming into planet's and life would begin. For all we know it might be an extremely long waiting period before everything just sink's into a big ball again and a new big bang have to occur.
Your whole premise is false, or at the very least without evidence. "That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." C. Hitchens.
I have no rebuttal. I find your argument logical, valid and true. Your video has inspired me to ponder philosophically: perhaps the big bang and all that ensued is a consequence of "God" deciding to speak. Thus the universe is simply his expression.
I have had similar revelations as to questioning the limited universe in Einsteins theorems. The simplest preset that I can query is to prove that 0 = 1
0 being before all of existence
1 being the universe
literally "TO BE OR NOT TO BE THAT IS THE QUESTION"
so, what makes your assumptions of "before the big bang" ?? you may want to read up on quantum field theory, or just assert your pious BS ad nauseum. What ever gets you more subscribers
How does a being be conscious if there is no time? How does a being make any decision if there is no time? How is a being not a statue, even if it exists, if there is no time?
Time is a method of measurement. "yes" the big bang is the beginning of time as we know it because there is no reference point before it (big bang). This does not mean there was no passage of time or matter before the big bang, we just don't know. Not knowing somethig is what creates fear and supernatural beliefs like Gods. You are not satified with not knowing so you make up something that fits "o god did it!". If God was real or supernateral there would be evidence of it, but there isen't.
3.A moon just the right size and distance just to the Earth's rotation,without our moon the earth would spin to fast creating sustained winds of hundreds of miles per hour......Not good for people..
Once you pass a certain point of circumstances,to say its an accident ...Now that takes blind faith.... ;)
I don't care what answers you come up with but you might :)
Also,you might want to study religion in it's Full Historical Context,paying particular attention to Egyption and Pagan beliefs.You might find some disturbing similarities to what you call "your faith".
You have obviously been seriously affected by the words and ideas of others and that those influences form the construct of what you firmly believe is absolute reality.
Do you really think you are more certain of your "truth" than a Muslim,Hindu or Jew is of theirs?
They are just as affected as you are and suffer the same Delusion.
So at least you are not alone.
Just so you know,I was raised in a Christian home and i do know why you want to believe.
But then,all those believers of different faiths would think the same way of you.
Why do you think Muslims call non-muslims(you included) infidels?
.
Also,an all powerful God would have the ability to deliver it's message in any manner it chose to wouldn't it?
Surely a simultaneous Global message is going to be more effective and believable than sending one man into a tiny part of the middle east and hoping it will spread?
To believe one God of a particular religion is true is to believe that God discriminates against babies at birth.
Children born in other parts of the world in different cultures with different beliefs don't have much hope of getting into your heaven.
You might arrogantly say that they can convert from their incorrect belief system to your "correct" belief system but that's not really what happens in the real world is it?
Let's start your healing process with a few simple questions.
What was so special about the suffering of Jesus?
The suffering of the Jews during WW2,or the suffering experienced in Rwanda during the Genocide or even victims of violent murder was equal to or greater than anything suffered by Jesus.
2000 years have passed since he died and his death still has made no impact on basic human behaviour.
@Admonishmints Its a good comparison, and that is why I use it. The reasoning behind your argument is the same, and my example just show that you can justify anything you want with the same reasoning.
You cannot prove that something does not exist unless you know everything there is to know.
Neither is the burden of proof on me since I am not the one making a claim. Neither can anyone disprove your belief, since there is no evidence for it to disprove.
@Admonishmints If it is so obvious why are you unable to provide even the slightest evidence? You may assume it is obvious, but that does not mean it is true or that you have any reason at all for your belief.
Since you cannot prove the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesnt exist, it does exist. Since you cannot prove flying pink unicorns does not exist, they do exist.
You see the fallacy of your argument? You are rationalizing man..
I enjoy the thought of gravity and magnetism being conscious but always choosing to remain consistent and lawful. Free will is a necessary component of life, even plants branch outward and respond to stimuli like fire and sound in unique ways. But does consciousness exist in non-living things? I cannot think of an example right now, but I will continue to search. Thanks for the ideas and I am glad for the discussion that has ensued thus far.
“But to whom can YOU people liken me so that I should be made his equal?” says the Holy One. “Raise YOUR eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls even by name. Due to the abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in power, not one [of them] is missing.
The assumption that we agree that the pre-universe was supernatural is i feel misguided, atheists believe that the universe existed compressed smaller than an atom, inside it the regular laws of physic did not occur (there was time just mixed up).
... >.< confused DX can we just leave it at time is forever? cus time is the future n the future is inevitable and and forever so the past was the future so if it was the future and is now the past then the past was forever.
o and freedom does not exist. every conscious creature life is ruled by basic rules. eat .. run when scared. go 2 the loo.. if life doesn't rule us other things do. other animals. rules. all that.
life is pointless..humans r too smart for their own good.
No one has ever suggested that nothing existed BEFORE the big bang, science has simply indicated that this was the starting point for our universe about 13 billion years ago. Something different existed before the big bang. Some people (including myself) hold the belief that the universe is in a constant cycle of compression and expansion. This is not the only (scientific) theory out there though.
"Steven Hawking, George Ellis, and Roger Penrose, extended Einstein's Theory of General Relativity. The singularity didn't appear in space; rather, space began inside of the singularity. Prior to the singularity, NOTHING existed, not space, time, matter, or energy - NOTHING. Creation was a supernatural event. That is, it took place outside of the natural realm. This fact begs the question: what exists outside of the natural realm?"
Very nice arguments my friend. Thanks for the invite. But I have a question. So who would decide in a end of a star, a earthquake or a back holes. I think we are almost nothing in the universe lets say we are like in the first step from millions of steps ahead to try to understand the universe. We have very primitive technology yet. Our race still fail to manage to extend our lifetime. etc....
You are basing your arguments on a purely theoretical science, for all we know a big bang didn't even take place.Its all purely theoretical and speculation. As far as your example on hawking.... I respect the man tremendously however he has been wrong many times before (hawking radiation) being one example, and he is just basing his argument on speculation. There are alot of unknowns and none of this proves any existence of "god"
I like your arguments. You seem intelligent & serious. I won't disrespect you. I disagree, but I like what you've said so far.
The universe is an emergent property. It works on mutual harmonics. It started fairly simple & became more complex. This is how it works. Take for instance, animals. They have simple choices. Eat this or that, mate with this or that. We have many more choices. Choices have clear motives/causes. Is it free will or just a more complex system of cause and effect?
One of the theories is that time is a result of the introduction of the unified field on a proto composite material. This set everything in motion and it just ran from there like rehydrating fruit.
Look up "Imagining the 10th Dimension." His views on science and spirituality are the best I've seen.
As for "free will-" A choice isn't a choice. There is either do or do not. You have no choice but to do one or the other and your reasons can be deduced easily enough. Free will is an illusion.
Before cosmology arrived at the Big Bang. An eternal universe was the foundation of Atheism. Atheism is actually disproven by our understanding that the universe began. Otherwise, the Big Bang would be an effect with no cause. And there is nothing even remotely scientific that suggests that a universe could randomly emerge from nothing.
I love your channel,it is a blessing and is great.Great job on this video and on the other videos.Thanks for sending me the friend's request.I had accepted it.Have a nice weekend and take care.God bless you!
if time didnt exist before the big bang than how could've god existed? how could've god created everything in 7 days? your argument is immediately flawed by saying that. i think you are a smart person but i think u are using your intelligence wrong in my oppinion. i have recieved your friend request by the way.
Wow, I just saw how hard he was getting shredded by other people. Meh, he could use a little constructive criticism. Like a biology class or something.
I stopped watching after you started making assumptions that I already agree with you. What is the point of the video if I already agree with you, to see yourself of YT or to make a valid point? Then I got curious and continued to watch the most glorious nonsensical mental gymnastics take place in some hilariously vain attempt to make a point. It is oddly ironic that your argument hinges on time, considering time is a relative human construct. How secular of you. The friend request was nice.
lol ok 1.22 im gonna stop there i dont need to argue because yeah your mixing god and science and thats always impossible. you can believe what you want but dont pretend you know any science... saying nothing existed before the big bang has no scientific basis... you dont know so why would you assume... thats not scientific. you people need to quit useing science to back up your theories, we're not buying it...
TheHonestTheist - if I may propose a theory - Time is a measure of distance. And applying the theory of relativity, time is relative thereby flexible like a rubber band. Able to stretch or expand (big bang) and shrink or contract (a reverse of the bang). So if the universe continually expands & contracts one could say that time begins at the end of the contraction and begins at the moment of expansion.
I appreciate the friend-invite, but your arguments seem a tad, well, speculative on the most important points. Since time has shown to be relative, you should state your point of reference when you state that time is eternal. Also, I stopped watching after you cherrypicked out all the adjectives you thought were appropriate for describing some sort of celestial entity and flung them on the screen like a piece of monkey feces. Don't let your theism get the better of you, keep on thinking.
I'm amused at your hypocritical "you're such a rebel" since you seem to have more or less made a career out of thumbing your nose at religion. pardon me for treading on your turf.
such an intellectual guy, i'm sure you could come up with a list of ways science has bitten us in the ass. put some thought into it if you feel like it, i won't waste any more of either of our time.
Why did you send me a friend invite? I don't want to listen to the mental ramblings of some religious guy who starts off with a conclusion and then bends the evidence, or views the evidence through heavy confirmation bias to fit the already arrived at conclusion.
by some standards, I may be young. regardless, your forgiveness is quite irrelevant.
you stated that science was cumulative, in other words, you just accept what has come before as being obvious. to me, that seems to imply quite a lot of assumption! of course, its impossible to carry on your daily life without making assumptions and taking things for granted, but if you deny that a scientist makes assumptions, you must truly have reinvented the wheel all by yourself.
@Fhilbo This shows such profound level of ignorance on your part. These "assumptions" put a man on the moon and discovered the human genome. Show me anything in religion that even begins to approximate the success we've had using the scientific method. Science (while far from perfect) actually accumulates knowledge. Theology accumulates nothing but hot air. A twelfth-century monk knew as much about God and the metaphysical as any theologian alive today. It's all nonsense.
@misterdeity oh ho! and what did you have to do with the moon landing? what have you discovered about human genomes? nothing i'm willing to bet. more likely you read about them in books, accounts, articles, you assumed were worth the paper printed on it. those in turn were likely based on other sources, and drew conclusions based on the assumptions that the sources weren't horse shit.
Indeed i am ignorant, but so are you sir, so are you.
@Fhilbo Really? That's the best you got? And you can't even capitalize (kind of proves my point about religious folks not accumulating knowledge -- capitalization has been around for years now, but you know nothing of it)? For the record, one doesn't need to "discover" anything one's self to know the benefits of science. That would be reinventing the wheel. Science is cumulative, building on previously "discovered" work. It's clear you neither understand that nor have taken advantage of it.
@Fhilbo If you don't think we know more about the Universe than a twelfth-centure monk, then you are beyond ignorant. And I'd suggest you stop using the computer to post these comments -- it betrays your point.
@misterdeity I think you're assuming I'm religious. not sure, but could you clarify this? i do often eshew capitalization. to be blunt, you aren't worth the effort of hitting the shift key, but i'm assumed at your snobbery over it, thanks :)
i'm curious. how do you take advantage of science in ways i don't? i'd love to learn your amazing secrets.
@Fhilbo Look, you made a stupid comment about science being just a bunch of assumptions (and even used the cheesy "ass out of you and me" line). Maybe you're still young enough to think that's funny or clever or whatever. I forgive you. But the same kind of (mental) laziness that leads you to think such foolish things is indicated by your lack of capitalization and proper punctuation. Apparently, grammar and sentence structure are just assumptions too. You're such a rebel!
If there is a God, he she or it does not give a flying fuck about a bunch of slightly more evolved monkeys on some pissant planet in the middle of nowhere in a boring run of the mill galaxy. anybody who has heard "God"'s voice has likely heard nothing more than the sound of the universe farting.
Time is relative, as life experience is individual and unique to each person. No two people have the same experience (life,) nor do people view/experience the world the same way. Mankind invented the concept of time, the god idea, and concepts, such as consciousness, and free will, which stem from our evolution of survival techniques in the world we have experienced and invented around us. You view the Universe as fine-tuned, I view it as evolutionary action-reaction-change continuum.
how quaint that you are trying to reconcile faith with science. good luck with that. faith exists in a universe of fantasy and phantasmagoria. science exists in a universe of logic.
i respect your decision to be a christian, for the simple fact that i believe it derrives from desires to better yourself as a person. I do not however believe in that. To say that any man knows the word of God, if there is a divine being, is completely insane. If you believe in God that is one thing. The belief in a book written by corruptable, completely natural organisms( meaning no divinity ) is just beyond me.
I'm trying to listen to your psycho-babble, but since you embark on false premises, It is rough going.
You are a creationist or believe in intelligent design? If so, we are adversaries, so why did you send me a friend invite? No friend of mine lacks a comment section on their channel.
Okay, I heard the whole video. Get your head out of the cobwebs, rub your eyes and rethink everything. But do keep thinking; you will eventually come to the most logical and only viable conclusion.
How can a conscious being exist without time, or without change? If there were absolutely nothing changing or moving, what would there be to be aware of?
If God is outside of time, then He could not Create our Universe because that would have been change and no change is possible outside time. In order to create anything, time has to already exist so that you can go from the A state (nothingness) to the B state (existence). I get it now. Thanks for solving this puzzle.
@Hokufan111 How does one create time when time itself is needed to "create" anything? There must first be a "moment" when the thing didn't exist, after which you create it and it does exist. To speak about God creating time is to speak pure nonsense and to presume to know about things you cannot possibly know about.
@Hokufan111 What do you mean "BEFORE He created"? There was no before if there was no time. And He couldn't create it by speaking because "speaking" is a linear activity which requires an already existing fabric of time. Without time, you can't DO anything -- including create time. Again, you're talking pure nonsense.
Quite simply, time is relative and did not exist until man created it. Either that or time has always existed before and after the big bang.
This entire video (and Im sure, most of your others) is based on personal opinion and contrived thinking. ie. "It's plausible in my mind so it must be accurate"
This is honesty: You can engage in philosophical debate for 29,300 days, and for 29,300 intriguing days you may find yourself enlightened. But not 1 minute of philosophical discussion will ever translate into a shred of evidence. Whatever is possible, must happen eventually, and whatever is impossible, must not happen.
actually in the big bang model the time just at its time and the time before it (called planck time) not even the laws of physics existed (or rather those laws were "other" than those that now exist. all that existed at and prior this time was only potential. same as the difference between a bomb prior to going off and its explosion. good vid.
I shouldn't really be bothering with this, but since you are a bit more reasonable than most, I shoud ask why you think creating the universe is an act of Free Will when Hawkins thinks in was inevitable because of the physical conditions that pertained at the time? Also if movement/change/time did not exist, then I would say thought processes and therefore God/freewill would not exist. Physicists would disagree that time did not exist in such a simplistc fashion however.
Thank you for the friend request. I appreciate the time and effort you took to creating this video, but your "cumulative argument" appears to be you declaring an inherently unfathomable and undeterminable issue, by todays standards, a resolved and logical one. Pointless and a waste of intellectual energy to argue either way.
Your basic reasoning that something had to choose to change things because nothing could force a change- Strip away the prtentious jargon about time- you are bascially saying that something chose to create because you cannot imagine a happenstance in which something changed jot by a conscious choice choice-- If nothing could happen, consciousness,or making a decision- requiring time and knowledge - would also be impossible- Or, if not impossible , than no more likely than a chance occurance
Thank you for the invite- you seem to be more thoughtful than most theists- But I don't think that you've thought this one through entirely- Even if it could be proved that a supernatural cause was needed to start the universe, there is nothing to indicate that it had to be a conscious being- That the force had to choose to create- Forces exist which effect things without choosing to - Simple as that. Or, if a conscious being, nothing indicates that that being was 'god" Or even still exists
so is time linear or circular?one would lead to evolution,the converse would ultimately lead to de-evolution if every thing has a molecular structure then presumably you could have a beach of sand each one a planet or even a universe in a sub-atomic suspension.[pity is i'm sober when i think of this stuff]like if you melt dry ice would you get wet swimming in it?what does a atheist girl scream during orgasm ?chicken or egg?
@thisisnotanick : 100% agree w/ U. Also, logic dictates that HE WHO ASSERTS THE POSITIVE HAS THE ONUS OF PROOF. Theists fail to grasp this simple logical principle. This ghnat sent me a friend invite. LOL Had he read my profile, he would have quickly figured out that I'm an atheist WAITING FOR PROOF because to postulate an existence is NOT PROOF of an Existence. As Sagan stated, "I am comfortable not having all the "answers." Theists jump to conclusions without using gray matter. Cheers.
Hi, Thank you for the friend invite. Most interesting channel that asks the most mysterious question. For me, God is everywhere. He likes variety. Just clearly look at birds, fish, flowers, trees, shapes and sizes of trees, leaves, butterflies, the designs and colors of butterflies, tigers, people, the list is endless. God just is.... He gives us every second, every breath. God is the Greatest Artist of all :)
Thanks for the friend invite,but out of respect for you, you probably don't know that we are militant atheist fundamentalists and so probably our views are a juxtaposition of yours, so the invite was possibly in error. Your vid, was quaint, but the philosophy logically flawed. I could site many examples, but you are probably so proud of this right now and wrapped up in it that it may be some time before you can see how flawed it is and have to rethink, but It is good you think and make videos
First of all, I wanted to thank you for the friend invite. Secondly, I would like to say that I agree. Unless we've overlooked something (which is possible based on how many times humans have overlooked things in the past), this seems like a very good theory. If no change is occurring, then the only way to get change to begin is through the choice of a conscious being to begin time. Anyways, have a wonderful weekend.
Its always a pity whenever humans get closer to gods they always move further out of sight. First they lived on mountain tops then in the sky and now they moved out of space and time . Out of existence. You and your fellow followers should do the same .
this video sure has caused a lot of atheists to either tap dance or flip flop BS. good job.
shariotoflove 1 week ago
Interesting discourse. I agree that the best your theory can point to is a deist God, a God who established teh universe and all its laws but cannot and chooses not to intervene in human affairs because to do so would be to contradict God's perfect laws. In other words, the God of humans: Judaism, Christianity, Islam etc cannot be the God you are talking about. But I still do not see why your God has to have free will to choose to do the big bang.
rosemaya48 2 weeks ago
Judging from your constant lip smacking and general pompous facial expressions - I think you make these videos to affirm a self-image of intellect and academia rather than proving the existence of god. I DID however take a look at one of your videos with "therationalskeptic" (who also seems like a very dull, empty young man with nothing to say of great worth) and he destroys you're argument without fail. You have yet to offer any new or profound metaphysical theories to youtube. I'd stop now
EversonofDave 3 months ago
I think your arguments about choice are a bit hollow. In nature there are many random spontaneous processes which occur eg. decay in a nucleus. Furthermore in the mind boggling field of quantum uncertainty where a particle will only 'choose' its' state when measured, random choice is well known about. I think your logic points to an Einsteinian 'God'. Nothing in logic can point you to a god mentioned in any of the world's religions.
mojopinnick 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
try to think of it as time exists because of change.
Agimko 5 months ago
I look foward to your reply...
PATERcestLEmun 9 months ago
2) So you believe that there was a being that created the universe. That doesn't prove that being is appropriate to worship. It doesn't prove a single thing in the bible. It doesn't prove any religion right or wrong. The title is misleading. You are not proving the God that theists wish to hear about. You are 'proving' what many scientists believe in. The title 'God's Existence' evokes confusion and supernaturalits jump to conclusions. You are proving an 'Einsteinian' God, not a religious one.
PATERcestLEmun 9 months ago
1) You argued and believe that without time no change can take place. You argued and believe that before the universe there was no time. I don't see how the fact that 'whatever caused the universe to be created was a conscious being' means that being could have created the universe. According to what you said, nothing can occur if there is no time.
PATERcestLEmun 9 months ago
@deusvult12
Um...You replied to me first. I assumed you wanted to have a discussion about arguments for the existence of God. But I guess you were more interested in reaffirming your worldview than dealing with arguments that challenge against it. What a shame.
Tonguenyomom 9 months ago
@deusvult12
IF God exists, he would have to either exist outside of time and thus be completely inactive, or he would have to exist within time and thus be unable to be the first cause. “he has no potency”…I thought he was supposed to be OMNI-potent? As for time being limited, it would be limited in so far as existence is limited. Isn’t saying that something existed at no moment in time the same as saying that something is nonexistent? To answer your step 1, I don’t believe in God at all.
Tonguenyomom 9 months ago
@deusvult12
In order to say that God created the universe, you have to say that God existed before the universe. And since the universe includes time, you have to say that God existed before time. But there can't be a "before time" since "before" cannot exist until time exists.
Time is needed in order for any action to take place. If God truly is outside of time, then he cannot take any action. He is frozen, disabled, and powerless. An unchanging God is an impotent God.
Tonguenyomom 9 months ago
@deusvult12
If he cannot change, then he cannot create. The act of creation is a change. First God existed, then God brought the universe into existence, then God existed with the universe. That is a change in state.
Tonguenyomom 9 months ago
3. The idea of free will is also a bit of an issue because you seem to define it as being free from causes. God is said to have free will because nothing made him create the universe. Well, then he would (potentially) be the only example of free will we know of. Although we are conscious beings, our actions, thoughts, and feelings can all be traced back through a chain of causes. I am writing this now because the sequence of events prior to this has compelled me to do so.
Tonguenyomom 10 months ago
2. If God exists outside of time and is therefore unchanging then how could the universe have been made at all? Surely the creation of the universe requires some change to occur and therefore require time to have already existed. Free will (if it exists) requires time to be carried out. Unless God is also outside the realm of logic, in which case it would be futile to approach the idea of his existence logically at all.
Tonguenyomom 10 months ago 2
1. The idea of time being created is logically incoherent. As you said yourself, time is required for change. If there is no time before time, then there is no way to change from no time to time. Introducing a supernatural force that created time itself would only work if that supernatural force had its own realm of time in which to enact change. But then where did THAT realm of time come from? So really, the only way for time to exist now is if it always existed.
Tonguenyomom 10 months ago
Let's say for the moment that I accept your arguments for the existence of god, and agree with you that there is indeed a god, which god am I supposed to believe in and worship?
Do follow the monotheistic path? If so, what makes Christianity more valid than Judaism or Islam? What about polytheism? What makes their theology less valid than monotheism?
TADahar 10 months ago
HonestThiest, I think this is a good start. But I see one fundamental flaw. You've yet to define what GOD is. If you cannot define GOD then we can only presume that you are arguing for a creator in general. That creator could be, satan, ghostly figures, or any number of supernatural creatures.
fefeman 11 months ago
You make a good argument that if you believe in a big bang then there certain prerequisites of consciousness and time that cannot be ignored - fundamentally a little knowledge is a dangerous thing and the answer to this one is right in front of you- in your keyboard!
intrigued? then follow these instructions...
For PC:
Switch on the 'Num lock' and press and HOLD the 'Alt' key,
now type 236 on the num-lock keypad.
Release 'Alt' key
For MAC OS:
simply press alt (or the option key) and press 5
neilamadhava 11 months ago
@PYTHAGORAS101 ...the universe is LIFE.There are numerous dimensions we cant comprehend, scientifically speaking, Life is everywhere and everything.
godnmyhands 11 months ago
to choose or have free will implies time. FAIL
Coquipirate 11 months ago
Even our human senses are pretty limited (APART from possibly eye sight!) most mammals are equipped with better ears, better noses and some even have a "third eye" for orientation in nature. If God created us, why so faulty ?
MrSKINFLICK 1 year ago
@MrSKINFLICK faulty? who is on top of the food chain?? he gave us a brain.. the ability to dream and think the impossible.. god created everything... so the animals are also his creation...
ChsSami 10 months ago
Dear Honest theist, ever made up your mind about the fact that these are all HUMAN ideas+that it is generally acknowledged(even by god-believers+organized relugions)that our brains are fallible+also quite limited. It could be that the human race will NEDVER be able to achieve certain dreams, i.e. space flight over lightyears of distance etc etc - so why should our ideas about what we fantasize about a so-called god, "eternity", our ideas about "time",the "universe" etc etc BE RIGHT?
MrSKINFLICK 1 year ago
science is as full of lies and narcissistic as religion.
there is ...
no god
no time
no begin
no end
no universe
...there is only here and now.
godnmyhands 1 year ago
@godnmyhands
"science is as full of lies and narcissistic as religion"
No idea.
BCT071 1 year ago
I believe there is not one space in the entire universe that does not contain life .
DO YOU ?
PYTHAGORAS101 1 year ago
OK allow me to humor your opinion for a moment. God existed before the universe and is the unchanging, all powerful, creator of everything. OK here are my questions. 1. Where do the things God creates come from? 2. Are Gods creations a window into Gods thoughts? 3. Why did God create a system that relies on death for life to feed itself and then later teach humans that death was a punishment for mans rebellion into sin? Please be respectful and answer these questions honestly, no guessing OK !!!
AHappyAtheist 1 year ago
@AHappyAtheist our brains are limited, we will never be able to know if god exists or not.. the questions u ask only god knows.. we can guess and make theories up but we will never know. to be able to sustain life on earth we need to die otherwise over populated...
ChsSami 10 months ago
@ChsSami We can know through logic and understanding, but I will spare you the explanation. It will only bore you.
AHappyAtheist 10 months ago
2nd message to this video's uploader: I am still awaiting confirmation of intent. I am unable to send personal messages to you as you have deactivated that option from your channel. Please send a personal message with your reasons for contacting me so that I may comprehend the reasoning you had behind sending me a friend invite.
Is this a philosophical thing?
Ital21 1 year ago
levels of consiousness
archeng123 1 year ago
Its a pity many can and will only rely on logical arguments in order to recognize the Creator.
ROMANS
{1:19} Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them. {1:20} For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that THEY ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE.
PSALM
{14:1} The fool hath said in his heart: there is no God
ricplay7890 1 year ago
@ricplay7890
"The fool hath said in his heart: there is no God"
And the wise person said it out loud, and with the brain.
Honestly - scripture that warns you that anybody who doesn't believe it is a fool? You think that's actually worth something? A holy book that needs to resort to insulting anybody who won't worship its "god"? That's just sad.
infideluxe 9 months ago
@infideluxe You would be foolish to deny there is a computer screen before you; you would be foolish to deny there is a God. That was the essence of it all. I bet if you saw that in a fortune cookie you'd probably be more receptive. lol
Seek Christ while you still can my friend. Arguments are fruitless. The gospel of Jesus Christ is the most redemptive power known to mankind. Don't cast it away because of your "logic".
Repent and submit to the Lord.
ricplay7890 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@ricplay7890
"you would be foolish to deny there is a computer screen before you; you would be foolish to deny there is a God."
One does not logically follow from the other.
"That was the essence of it all."
I think you need to work on your essence.
"I bet if you saw that in a fortune cookie you'd probably be more receptive."
No. I'd wince at the utter inanity of it.
"Seek Christ while you still can my friend."
No, thanks.
infideluxe 9 months ago
Comment removed
infideluxe 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@ricplay7890
Arguments are fruitless."
Only when willful ignorance comes into play (see your first statement).
"The gospel of Jesus Christ is the most redemptive power known to mankind."
"Religion provides the solace for the turmoil it creates." —Byron Danelius
Keep your redemption.
"Don't cast it away because of your "logic".
I guess when you cast logic away, you need to be saved by something, eh?
infideluxe 9 months ago
Creation vs. formation.
A creation requires a creator, a formation requires circumstances. the big bang formed the universe, and god was the one that created it. the difference is imperative.
2:24 "so we have to say it was something supernatural"
Thats what called an "argument by ignorance" and you've downgraded it by referring it to as a "something" instead of a "someone".
Being honest to others is one thing, i know you know better then that mr theist.
Kaandorpius 1 year ago
"if time is frozen, change is frozen"
Lets discard the idea time is a real factor, what are whe left with to invoke "change" with? answer it with a single word.
Kaandorpius 1 year ago
The concept of time has no beginning and no end, nor is it circular.
Like i said, time is a psychological tool to interpret our invironment, apart from what we subjectively can measure with our self invented earth based biased minutes and seconds. it does not reflect reality for what it is.
Time did not start with the big bang, time started when humans began to grasp understanding of concepts as past, present and future. Somewhere around the earliest sunworshippers in prehistory.
Kaandorpius 1 year ago
Time does not exist, can anyone grasp that idea? that time is only subject to the mind, a concept realised only by the ability to discern one moment from another, to chronolize it, and being able to use that information in a practical manner.
A clock proves nothing, its manmade design is merely based on the natural occurance of the rotation of the earth, signifying a single day as twelve hours, a priciple we inherited from the Babylonians.
Time is a psychological tool, to measure and predict.
Kaandorpius 1 year ago
Pretty deep... Way before my time :lol:
Many YWHA Blessings to you, my Friend!
EcoPaintSpecialists1 1 year ago
what is the proof there was no time before the big bang. the big bang is only a theory and there was definitely something prior, no proof it was any of the things you say any more than our current universe is those things.. is the universe god.
godnmyhands 1 year ago
@godnmyhands Well, we can't even see all of the universe, just the visible parts. So you must admit you cannot know god if you cannot know the universe, no? The leftover microwave radiation, apparently from the big bang, is fairly well documented. Science is good at figuring out what we know for sure and getting the best explanation for what we aren't positive on. You didn't know that? Prove God exists. Prove telling a lie is always a sin, thing is you can't. Soooo, where does that leave us?
MrAgrippa91313 1 year ago
I love it! God is awesome, keep up the good work, you're an awesome guy ;-)
*Shannon*
whatsupfamousface 1 year ago
Deist arguments all.
You should have called yourself either "TheDishonestTheist" or "TheHonestDeist".
PathToVendetta 1 year ago
You are spewing unverifiable and unproven theories. If your quest for attention has been fulfilled, the one for the proof of God's existence has not. Why you want to be my friend when I don't know you and you most visibly disagree with my views on this subject is beyond me, and is quite annoying.
Cheers...
axcertypo 1 year ago
Message to this video's uploader:
I have certain doubts about accepting. You have blocked all outside messaging.
Could you please clarify your intentions and add some random thoughts to help your sudden invite?
Ital21 1 year ago
YOU SENT ME A MESSAGE ASKING ME TO BE A 'FRIEND'. I CAN'T IMAGINE WHY, AS I PREFER THE COMPANY OF THOSE FREE FROM MENTAL DELUSIONS. HOWEVER, IT MAY BE THAT YOU WISH TO TELL ME THE GOOD NEWS ABOUT JESUS. ASIDE FROM THE FACT THAT I'VE HEARD IT ALL BEFORE AND I HAVE THE FEELING THAT YOU WILL HAVE NOTHING NEW TO OFFER, FINE BY ME. IF THIS IS THE CASE, LET IT BE BY PM AND YOU CAN KICK-START IT. YOU'LL NEED TO UNBLOCK :)
draagon66 1 year ago
WHAT BASIS DO YOU HAVE FOR ASSERTING THAT TIME DID NOT EXIST BEFORE THE EXPANSION OF THE SINGULARITY? THE ACTUAL POSITION IS THAT WE HAVE NO MEANS OF MEASURING TIME BEFORE THAT MOMENT AND, THEREFORE, FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES, MEASURABLE TIME BEGAN AT THE MOMENT OF EXPANSION. NEVERTHELESS, TIME DID EXIST BEFORE.
BEFORE THE ACCUMULATION OF THE MATERIALS NECESSARY FOR THE SINGULARITY TO FORM, CONDITIONS WERE CHANGING. TIME EXISTED. WE JUST CAN'T QUANTIFY IT.
MANY MORE ERRORS HERE. ANOTHER TIME
draagon66 1 year ago
well anything could be anything. The truth is, unless we actually know something, we should just be honest and stick to "i dont know." No one does, no one can, and until we do, it's the most logical to claim no special knowledge either way. Even if I shrug off science, it certainly does not indicate why i should grasp theism. It's claims dont strike me as any more true than any other proposition. I remain agnostic.
isisdron 1 year ago
Imagine a puddle thinking, 'This is a perfect world and a perfect hole I find myself in. Fits me perfectly. Its so perfect it must be made for me!' This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it's still frantically hanging on to the notion that everything's going to be all right, because this world was meant to have him in it. So the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise.
y0nd3r 1 year ago
@y0nd3r agree. the anthropic principles at work...we happen to be in universe where we can exist, so therefore we claim that the universe was made for us.
isisdron 1 year ago
The fine-tuning argument and other recent intelligent design arguments are modern versions of God of the gaps reasoning, where a God is deemed necessary whenever science has not fully explained some phenomenon.
y0nd3r 1 year ago
I dont need to indicate an existing being that can freely choose to do something without being conscious as a rebuttal. All I need to do is say that there is an unconscious being outside of nature that is able to freely choose and we can't understand how it can do it, in the same way as u arbitrarily choose to say that god is conscious and can make choices even in a situation where time doesnt exist. or can you perhaps tell me of any creature that can perform an action in the absence of time?
DCioccoloni 1 year ago
Until scientists figure out what time is, we should be comfortable in saying 'we don't yet know'. We could use philosophy to imagine any number of scenarios, all of them unsupported by verifiable facts. It doesn't matter the odds against us being here. The fact is we are. Its improper to say until we know how things started, we will say god did it. That is only supported by philosophy, not facts.
y0nd3r 1 year ago
I think that if you explode a orange, some of the part's would be destroyd and some would get thrown away, some of the part's would end up far away, some would end up near the explosion. As big bang. some of the part's that was thrown away did not get out of control and therefore stopped at the right moment, forming into planet's and life would begin. For all we know it might be an extremely long waiting period before everything just sink's into a big ball again and a new big bang have to occur.
TekniskM 1 year ago
@TekniskM But I love the way you questioning these thing's :) make's us think :)
TekniskM 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Your whole premise is false, or at the very least without evidence. "That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." C. Hitchens.
Magnusig 1 year ago
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Magnusig 1 year ago
There is no such thing as time. What you think of as time is simply motion.
cory2146 1 year ago
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sonnetswan 1 year ago
I have no rebuttal. I find your argument logical, valid and true. Your video has inspired me to ponder philosophically: perhaps the big bang and all that ensued is a consequence of "God" deciding to speak. Thus the universe is simply his expression.
sonnetswan 1 year ago
I have had similar revelations as to questioning the limited universe in Einsteins theorems. The simplest preset that I can query is to prove that 0 = 1
0 being before all of existence
1 being the universe
literally "TO BE OR NOT TO BE THAT IS THE QUESTION"
feriousity 1 year ago
so, what makes your assumptions of "before the big bang" ?? you may want to read up on quantum field theory, or just assert your pious BS ad nauseum. What ever gets you more subscribers
OpiatedBliss 1 year ago
The arguments you use in this video can be applied to any sort of deity :o
sheilacow 1 year ago
How does a being be conscious if there is no time? How does a being make any decision if there is no time? How is a being not a statue, even if it exists, if there is no time?
cobol528 1 year ago
Time is a method of measurement. "yes" the big bang is the beginning of time as we know it because there is no reference point before it (big bang). This does not mean there was no passage of time or matter before the big bang, we just don't know. Not knowing somethig is what creates fear and supernatural beliefs like Gods. You are not satified with not knowing so you make up something that fits "o god did it!". If God was real or supernateral there would be evidence of it, but there isen't.
MrXX11XX22XX33 1 year ago 2
Well when people say life on Earth was an accident..............
Can atheist spot a pattern??
For human life to exist on Earth....
1.The Earth had to be in the golde locks zone,not to hot not to cold..
2.A molten rotating iron core,that creates a powerful enough magnetic field,to keep the solar wind from sterilizing life on the planet...
ClarksonsinUSA 1 year ago
To Finnish...
3.A moon just the right size and distance just to the Earth's rotation,without our moon the earth would spin to fast creating sustained winds of hundreds of miles per hour......Not good for people..
Once you pass a certain point of circumstances,to say its an accident ...Now that takes blind faith.... ;)
It is what it is...It Really IS...
ClarksonsinUSA 1 year ago
@ClarksonsinUSA
All you have done is list the Natural Phenomena which has allowed life to form,evolve and exist here on this "Pale Blue Dot".
And i think life will be rare in the Universe because of the many friendly conditions required for it's existence.
But have no doubt,future generations,if not ours, will find life existing outside of the "Goldie Locks" zone.
Here on Earth many creatures live outside of the Human Goldie Locks zone.
You need to think a little more about Indoctrination
BCT071 1 year ago
@ClarksonsinUSA
To insinuate that anyone says it's an accident is to attack a straw man. You might like to be less intellectually dishonest.
InfernalApocalypse 1 year ago
You recently sent me a friend invite, and I was wondering what are your beliefs, and which bible do you follow?
Glorybound109 1 year ago
@Admonishmints
And the comfort i asked you about was the comfort believing brings.
Afterlife...Thinking you will see your dead loved ones again...Eternal Life etc.
Not the comfort of me having once being a Christian.
Try to keep up.
BCT071 1 year ago
@Admonishmints
Please,no more.
I have tried to help you.
I can do no more.
Read the questions again.
Answer them honestly to yourself.
I don't care what answers you come up with but you might :)
Also,you might want to study religion in it's Full Historical Context,paying particular attention to Egyption and Pagan beliefs.You might find some disturbing similarities to what you call "your faith".
Faith is dead with or without works.
The Faithful just havn't figured it out yet.
BCT071 1 year ago
@Admonishmints
You have obviously been seriously affected by the words and ideas of others and that those influences form the construct of what you firmly believe is absolute reality.
Do you really think you are more certain of your "truth" than a Muslim,Hindu or Jew is of theirs?
They are just as affected as you are and suffer the same Delusion.
So at least you are not alone.
Just so you know,I was raised in a Christian home and i do know why you want to believe.
Comforting isn't it?
BCT071 1 year ago
@Admonishmints
But then,all those believers of different faiths would think the same way of you.
Why do you think Muslims call non-muslims(you included) infidels?
.
Also,an all powerful God would have the ability to deliver it's message in any manner it chose to wouldn't it?
Surely a simultaneous Global message is going to be more effective and believable than sending one man into a tiny part of the middle east and hoping it will spread?
Your whole existence is an implanted fantasy.
BCT071 1 year ago
@Admonishmints
Is your God evil?
To believe one God of a particular religion is true is to believe that God discriminates against babies at birth.
Children born in other parts of the world in different cultures with different beliefs don't have much hope of getting into your heaven.
You might arrogantly say that they can convert from their incorrect belief system to your "correct" belief system but that's not really what happens in the real world is it?
Most take their beliefs to the grave
BCT071 1 year ago
@Admonishmints
Oh my.
You really have been damaged.
Let's start your healing process with a few simple questions.
What was so special about the suffering of Jesus?
The suffering of the Jews during WW2,or the suffering experienced in Rwanda during the Genocide or even victims of violent murder was equal to or greater than anything suffered by Jesus.
2000 years have passed since he died and his death still has made no impact on basic human behaviour.
So what was the point?
BCT071 1 year ago
@Admonishmints Its a good comparison, and that is why I use it. The reasoning behind your argument is the same, and my example just show that you can justify anything you want with the same reasoning.
You cannot prove that something does not exist unless you know everything there is to know.
Neither is the burden of proof on me since I am not the one making a claim. Neither can anyone disprove your belief, since there is no evidence for it to disprove.
thisisnotanick 1 year ago
@Admonishmints If it is so obvious why are you unable to provide even the slightest evidence? You may assume it is obvious, but that does not mean it is true or that you have any reason at all for your belief.
Since you cannot prove the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesnt exist, it does exist. Since you cannot prove flying pink unicorns does not exist, they do exist.
You see the fallacy of your argument? You are rationalizing man..
thisisnotanick 1 year ago
Well, this is very rational. You are one on a million dude.
plasticPlaystation 1 year ago
That was interesting. I was actually able to follow what you were saying.
theflarpus 1 year ago
Infinite number of universes are being made continuesly, and infinite can have life, and infinite can't have life.
Its all because of infinity.
It exists.
royorbitol 1 year ago
I enjoy the thought of gravity and magnetism being conscious but always choosing to remain consistent and lawful. Free will is a necessary component of life, even plants branch outward and respond to stimuli like fire and sound in unique ways. But does consciousness exist in non-living things? I cannot think of an example right now, but I will continue to search. Thanks for the ideas and I am glad for the discussion that has ensued thus far.
DrummerofSummer 1 year ago
Theists just don't get it.
They think they're thinking when all they are doing is defending and regurgitating each other's tired old assumptions.
Like the assumption that the Big Bang required a Supernatural cause rather than a natural cause based on conditions at that time.
For all we know this Universe will one day again be dominated by Gravity rather than Dark Energy.
That would mean certain death for this universe and any like it.
A Big Crunch leading to another Big Bang.
Over and over
BCT071 1 year ago
“But to whom can YOU people liken me so that I should be made his equal?” says the Holy One. “Raise YOUR eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls even by name. Due to the abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in power, not one [of them] is missing.
Isaiah 40: 25-26 -Peace!
raven2000ka2 1 year ago
Eternal time and before time cannot co exist. One definition is infinite and the second definition has a beginning.
01jerm10 1 year ago
You have made your point.
STREETSPIRITONLINE 1 year ago
The assumption that we agree that the pre-universe was supernatural is i feel misguided, atheists believe that the universe existed compressed smaller than an atom, inside it the regular laws of physic did not occur (there was time just mixed up).
desman18 1 year ago
Another human being with the same views and ideologies as me. I must admit its quite a shock how dead on your ideas match my own.
Psychoblade69 1 year ago
... >.< confused DX can we just leave it at time is forever? cus time is the future n the future is inevitable and and forever so the past was the future so if it was the future and is now the past then the past was forever.
o and freedom does not exist. every conscious creature life is ruled by basic rules. eat .. run when scared. go 2 the loo.. if life doesn't rule us other things do. other animals. rules. all that.
life is pointless..humans r too smart for their own good.
cottencandykitten 1 year ago
Are you insinuating that pausing this video causes "time" to stop?
bttrflykiss7701 1 year ago
I would troll you but you are an awesome British person so I can't do that.
LexaProductions 1 year ago
Do you believe in Nessie too?
pazuk 1 year ago
No one has ever suggested that nothing existed BEFORE the big bang, science has simply indicated that this was the starting point for our universe about 13 billion years ago. Something different existed before the big bang. Some people (including myself) hold the belief that the universe is in a constant cycle of compression and expansion. This is not the only (scientific) theory out there though.
shazzadee 1 year ago
@shazzadee
"Steven Hawking, George Ellis, and Roger Penrose, extended Einstein's Theory of General Relativity. The singularity didn't appear in space; rather, space began inside of the singularity. Prior to the singularity, NOTHING existed, not space, time, matter, or energy - NOTHING. Creation was a supernatural event. That is, it took place outside of the natural realm. This fact begs the question: what exists outside of the natural realm?"
h t t p : / / w w w . big-bang-theory . com /
NigNogPoIice 1 year ago
Very nice arguments my friend. Thanks for the invite. But I have a question. So who would decide in a end of a star, a earthquake or a back holes. I think we are almost nothing in the universe lets say we are like in the first step from millions of steps ahead to try to understand the universe. We have very primitive technology yet. Our race still fail to manage to extend our lifetime. etc....
Br4ZuCa 1 year ago
Good job. I think there is a problem of the limitation of human language.
Ear4Beauty 1 year ago
Your accent totally makes me want to watch all of your videos.
RocknForJesus 1 year ago
You are basing your arguments on a purely theoretical science, for all we know a big bang didn't even take place.Its all purely theoretical and speculation. As far as your example on hawking.... I respect the man tremendously however he has been wrong many times before (hawking radiation) being one example, and he is just basing his argument on speculation. There are alot of unknowns and none of this proves any existence of "god"
Unh0lymystic 1 year ago
Interesting stuff you are saying. Subscribed.
NetuPodStolomNikogo 1 year ago
Hi. Very good logic, now take the next step.
chuck
chumola9 1 year ago
I believe in the existence of God. Thx 4 the invite.
naas000media 1 year ago
@naas000media You don't have to tell me, but the curiousity begs me to ask why... Why do you believe in the existence of a god?
bttrflykiss7701 1 year ago
I like your arguments. You seem intelligent & serious. I won't disrespect you. I disagree, but I like what you've said so far.
The universe is an emergent property. It works on mutual harmonics. It started fairly simple & became more complex. This is how it works. Take for instance, animals. They have simple choices. Eat this or that, mate with this or that. We have many more choices. Choices have clear motives/causes. Is it free will or just a more complex system of cause and effect?
CrossTheGrigori 1 year ago
One of the theories is that time is a result of the introduction of the unified field on a proto composite material. This set everything in motion and it just ran from there like rehydrating fruit.
Look up "Imagining the 10th Dimension." His views on science and spirituality are the best I've seen.
As for "free will-" A choice isn't a choice. There is either do or do not. You have no choice but to do one or the other and your reasons can be deduced easily enough. Free will is an illusion.
CrossTheGrigori 1 year ago
for science's sake, stop mixing science with religion u moron. and thanks for the friend invite.. but no thanks.
Frunen 1 year ago
Before cosmology arrived at the Big Bang. An eternal universe was the foundation of Atheism. Atheism is actually disproven by our understanding that the universe began. Otherwise, the Big Bang would be an effect with no cause. And there is nothing even remotely scientific that suggests that a universe could randomly emerge from nothing.
karlmahlmann 1 year ago
I love your channel,it is a blessing and is great.Great job on this video and on the other videos.Thanks for sending me the friend's request.I had accepted it.Have a nice weekend and take care.God bless you!
ashannonshow 1 year ago
if time didnt exist before the big bang than how could've god existed? how could've god created everything in 7 days? your argument is immediately flawed by saying that. i think you are a smart person but i think u are using your intelligence wrong in my oppinion. i have recieved your friend request by the way.
aloneinthedarkmo 1 year ago
Wow, I just saw how hard he was getting shredded by other people. Meh, he could use a little constructive criticism. Like a biology class or something.
MrAgrippa91313 1 year ago
I stopped watching after you started making assumptions that I already agree with you. What is the point of the video if I already agree with you, to see yourself of YT or to make a valid point? Then I got curious and continued to watch the most glorious nonsensical mental gymnastics take place in some hilariously vain attempt to make a point. It is oddly ironic that your argument hinges on time, considering time is a relative human construct. How secular of you. The friend request was nice.
MrAgrippa91313 1 year ago
lol ok 1.22 im gonna stop there i dont need to argue because yeah your mixing god and science and thats always impossible. you can believe what you want but dont pretend you know any science... saying nothing existed before the big bang has no scientific basis... you dont know so why would you assume... thats not scientific. you people need to quit useing science to back up your theories, we're not buying it...
coldlogic1 1 year ago
TheHonestTheist - if I may propose a theory - Time is a measure of distance. And applying the theory of relativity, time is relative thereby flexible like a rubber band. Able to stretch or expand (big bang) and shrink or contract (a reverse of the bang). So if the universe continually expands & contracts one could say that time begins at the end of the contraction and begins at the moment of expansion.
unlending 1 year ago
I appreciate the friend-invite, but your arguments seem a tad, well, speculative on the most important points. Since time has shown to be relative, you should state your point of reference when you state that time is eternal. Also, I stopped watching after you cherrypicked out all the adjectives you thought were appropriate for describing some sort of celestial entity and flung them on the screen like a piece of monkey feces. Don't let your theism get the better of you, keep on thinking.
thakorian 1 year ago
I'm amused at your hypocritical "you're such a rebel" since you seem to have more or less made a career out of thumbing your nose at religion. pardon me for treading on your turf.
such an intellectual guy, i'm sure you could come up with a list of ways science has bitten us in the ass. put some thought into it if you feel like it, i won't waste any more of either of our time.
Fhilbo 1 year ago
Why did you send me a friend invite? I don't want to listen to the mental ramblings of some religious guy who starts off with a conclusion and then bends the evidence, or views the evidence through heavy confirmation bias to fit the already arrived at conclusion.
Do us all a favour and bash the bible in private.
LAnonHubbard 1 year ago
by some standards, I may be young. regardless, your forgiveness is quite irrelevant.
you stated that science was cumulative, in other words, you just accept what has come before as being obvious. to me, that seems to imply quite a lot of assumption! of course, its impossible to carry on your daily life without making assumptions and taking things for granted, but if you deny that a scientist makes assumptions, you must truly have reinvented the wheel all by yourself.
Fhilbo 1 year ago
me cunt be juor frend bicose i dont beliive god, thanks for invait anywei!
EuroShopperiaUkko 1 year ago
Fantastick video baby:)
NicoleMyBaby1 1 year ago
hello
time is changable....with metamaterials you can speed it up and slow it down
you can view change with out stopping time .....and "swiftly"?
1.45..hang on...you just contradicted yourself ,......again
you on acid???
lesleyblood1 1 year ago
a plant has a will that is still free, it's just given less of a choice.
a plant can choose HOW to grow, much like each snowflake is unique.
ProjectRedfoot 1 year ago
HELLO, WHICH VIDEO DID YOU LIKE I'LL SEND IT TO YOU, IF YOU WANT! LATER =^..^=
sickpainevil 1 year ago
This man is absolutely correct and is making no bold irrational claims. In fact it is the so-called ‘rational’ Atheists who make all them.
NigNogPoIice 1 year ago
and science is just a bunch of assumptions based on a long series of assumptions. it frequently makes an ass out of you and me.
Fhilbo 1 year ago
@Fhilbo This shows such profound level of ignorance on your part. These "assumptions" put a man on the moon and discovered the human genome. Show me anything in religion that even begins to approximate the success we've had using the scientific method. Science (while far from perfect) actually accumulates knowledge. Theology accumulates nothing but hot air. A twelfth-century monk knew as much about God and the metaphysical as any theologian alive today. It's all nonsense.
misterdeity 1 year ago
@misterdeity oh ho! and what did you have to do with the moon landing? what have you discovered about human genomes? nothing i'm willing to bet. more likely you read about them in books, accounts, articles, you assumed were worth the paper printed on it. those in turn were likely based on other sources, and drew conclusions based on the assumptions that the sources weren't horse shit.
Indeed i am ignorant, but so are you sir, so are you.
Fhilbo 1 year ago
@Fhilbo Really? That's the best you got? And you can't even capitalize (kind of proves my point about religious folks not accumulating knowledge -- capitalization has been around for years now, but you know nothing of it)? For the record, one doesn't need to "discover" anything one's self to know the benefits of science. That would be reinventing the wheel. Science is cumulative, building on previously "discovered" work. It's clear you neither understand that nor have taken advantage of it.
misterdeity 1 year ago
@misterdeity i'd guess you know about as much of the universe as a 12th century monk, but that you assume far far more.
Fhilbo 1 year ago
@Fhilbo If you don't think we know more about the Universe than a twelfth-centure monk, then you are beyond ignorant. And I'd suggest you stop using the computer to post these comments -- it betrays your point.
misterdeity 1 year ago
@misterdeity I think you're assuming I'm religious. not sure, but could you clarify this? i do often eshew capitalization. to be blunt, you aren't worth the effort of hitting the shift key, but i'm assumed at your snobbery over it, thanks :)
i'm curious. how do you take advantage of science in ways i don't? i'd love to learn your amazing secrets.
Fhilbo 1 year ago
@Fhilbo lol amused, not assumed, i beg your pardon
Fhilbo 1 year ago
@Fhilbo Look, you made a stupid comment about science being just a bunch of assumptions (and even used the cheesy "ass out of you and me" line). Maybe you're still young enough to think that's funny or clever or whatever. I forgive you. But the same kind of (mental) laziness that leads you to think such foolish things is indicated by your lack of capitalization and proper punctuation. Apparently, grammar and sentence structure are just assumptions too. You're such a rebel!
misterdeity 1 year ago
If there is a God, he she or it does not give a flying fuck about a bunch of slightly more evolved monkeys on some pissant planet in the middle of nowhere in a boring run of the mill galaxy. anybody who has heard "God"'s voice has likely heard nothing more than the sound of the universe farting.
Fhilbo 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Fhilbo My point exactly.
misterdeity 1 year ago
Time is relative, as life experience is individual and unique to each person. No two people have the same experience (life,) nor do people view/experience the world the same way. Mankind invented the concept of time, the god idea, and concepts, such as consciousness, and free will, which stem from our evolution of survival techniques in the world we have experienced and invented around us. You view the Universe as fine-tuned, I view it as evolutionary action-reaction-change continuum.
Jbear9 1 year ago
This is one big argument from ignorance. You can't imagine how the universe came to be and therefore you have imagined a magic man to do it.
cidvisions 1 year ago
Man Made God
2nasafakedit 1 year ago
how quaint that you are trying to reconcile faith with science. good luck with that. faith exists in a universe of fantasy and phantasmagoria. science exists in a universe of logic.
bebenic 1 year ago
i respect your decision to be a christian, for the simple fact that i believe it derrives from desires to better yourself as a person. I do not however believe in that. To say that any man knows the word of God, if there is a divine being, is completely insane. If you believe in God that is one thing. The belief in a book written by corruptable, completely natural organisms( meaning no divinity ) is just beyond me.
roadman89NE 1 year ago
I'm trying to listen to your psycho-babble, but since you embark on false premises, It is rough going.
You are a creationist or believe in intelligent design? If so, we are adversaries, so why did you send me a friend invite? No friend of mine lacks a comment section on their channel.
Okay, I heard the whole video. Get your head out of the cobwebs, rub your eyes and rethink everything. But do keep thinking; you will eventually come to the most logical and only viable conclusion.
ergonomover 1 year ago
How can a conscious being exist without time, or without change? If there were absolutely nothing changing or moving, what would there be to be aware of?
NavinJohnson90 1 year ago
If God is outside of time, then He could not Create our Universe because that would have been change and no change is possible outside time. In order to create anything, time has to already exist so that you can go from the A state (nothingness) to the B state (existence). I get it now. Thanks for solving this puzzle.
misterdeity 1 year ago
@misterdeity God created time
Hokufan111 1 year ago
@Hokufan111 How does one create time when time itself is needed to "create" anything? There must first be a "moment" when the thing didn't exist, after which you create it and it does exist. To speak about God creating time is to speak pure nonsense and to presume to know about things you cannot possibly know about.
misterdeity 1 year ago
@misterdeity Before He created everything, there was no time. God made time along with everything else. He created it by speaking it into existence.
Hokufan111 1 year ago
@Hokufan111 What do you mean "BEFORE He created"? There was no before if there was no time. And He couldn't create it by speaking because "speaking" is a linear activity which requires an already existing fabric of time. Without time, you can't DO anything -- including create time. Again, you're talking pure nonsense.
misterdeity 1 year ago
Quite simply, time is relative and did not exist until man created it. Either that or time has always existed before and after the big bang.
This entire video (and Im sure, most of your others) is based on personal opinion and contrived thinking. ie. "It's plausible in my mind so it must be accurate"
imjam13 1 year ago
@TheHonestTheist DID YOU REALLY THINK I WOULD ACCEPT YOUR FRIEND INVITE YOU LOONY CREOTARD ???
vince38curious2 1 year ago
Ehh... All I see is a layman trying to understand the universe without a comprehensive knowledge of science.
wolverine005 1 year ago
This is honesty: You can engage in philosophical debate for 29,300 days, and for 29,300 intriguing days you may find yourself enlightened. But not 1 minute of philosophical discussion will ever translate into a shred of evidence. Whatever is possible, must happen eventually, and whatever is impossible, must not happen.
whanethewhip 1 year ago
actually in the big bang model the time just at its time and the time before it (called planck time) not even the laws of physics existed (or rather those laws were "other" than those that now exist. all that existed at and prior this time was only potential. same as the difference between a bomb prior to going off and its explosion. good vid.
knowthingman 1 year ago
I shouldn't really be bothering with this, but since you are a bit more reasonable than most, I shoud ask why you think creating the universe is an act of Free Will when Hawkins thinks in was inevitable because of the physical conditions that pertained at the time? Also if movement/change/time did not exist, then I would say thought processes and therefore God/freewill would not exist. Physicists would disagree that time did not exist in such a simplistc fashion however.
NoFaithNoPain 1 year ago
Thank you for the friend request. I appreciate the time and effort you took to creating this video, but your "cumulative argument" appears to be you declaring an inherently unfathomable and undeterminable issue, by todays standards, a resolved and logical one. Pointless and a waste of intellectual energy to argue either way.
Iaganatzi 1 year ago
Your basic reasoning that something had to choose to change things because nothing could force a change- Strip away the prtentious jargon about time- you are bascially saying that something chose to create because you cannot imagine a happenstance in which something changed jot by a conscious choice choice-- If nothing could happen, consciousness,or making a decision- requiring time and knowledge - would also be impossible- Or, if not impossible , than no more likely than a chance occurance
hexum7 1 year ago
Thank you for the invite- you seem to be more thoughtful than most theists- But I don't think that you've thought this one through entirely- Even if it could be proved that a supernatural cause was needed to start the universe, there is nothing to indicate that it had to be a conscious being- That the force had to choose to create- Forces exist which effect things without choosing to - Simple as that. Or, if a conscious being, nothing indicates that that being was 'god" Or even still exists
hexum7 1 year ago
so is time linear or circular?one would lead to evolution,the converse would ultimately lead to de-evolution if every thing has a molecular structure then presumably you could have a beach of sand each one a planet or even a universe in a sub-atomic suspension.[pity is i'm sober when i think of this stuff]like if you melt dry ice would you get wet swimming in it?what does a atheist girl scream during orgasm ?chicken or egg?
nodillinger 1 year ago
Comment removed
hexum7 1 year ago
We cannot measure time, you are backing arguments up with speculation, not evidence..
There is no evidence that time did not exist before the Big Bang. We just cannot get any data on it, these are not the same things.
thisisnotanick 1 year ago 13
@thisisnotanick : 100% agree w/ U. Also, logic dictates that HE WHO ASSERTS THE POSITIVE HAS THE ONUS OF PROOF. Theists fail to grasp this simple logical principle. This ghnat sent me a friend invite. LOL Had he read my profile, he would have quickly figured out that I'm an atheist WAITING FOR PROOF because to postulate an existence is NOT PROOF of an Existence. As Sagan stated, "I am comfortable not having all the "answers." Theists jump to conclusions without using gray matter. Cheers.
Sexxistentialist 1 year ago
@thisisnotanick - time is simply a measure of distance. not being able to get data only evidences mankind's limited understanding.
unlending 1 year ago
@thisisnotanick lol.......
gnarlyjessehd 1 year ago
Hi, Thank you for the friend invite. Most interesting channel that asks the most mysterious question. For me, God is everywhere. He likes variety. Just clearly look at birds, fish, flowers, trees, shapes and sizes of trees, leaves, butterflies, the designs and colors of butterflies, tigers, people, the list is endless. God just is.... He gives us every second, every breath. God is the Greatest Artist of all :)
myblueroad 1 year ago
Thanks for the friend invite,but out of respect for you, you probably don't know that we are militant atheist fundamentalists and so probably our views are a juxtaposition of yours, so the invite was possibly in error. Your vid, was quaint, but the philosophy logically flawed. I could site many examples, but you are probably so proud of this right now and wrapped up in it that it may be some time before you can see how flawed it is and have to rethink, but It is good you think and make videos
NoFaithNoPain 1 year ago
God is nature itself..its yust onelove..if you want.Peace
SiouxSyndicate 1 year ago
This thing you are referring to is: GOD SOVEREIGN!
I don't believe in the big bang theory!
GOD IS ABOVE ALL! POWERFUL! INDESCRIBABLE!
I will not accept your friend invite because I am not interested in
debating or discussing the big bang theory
teraestera 1 year ago
But why do you consider it to be powerful?
Malangsufi 1 year ago
Hi Henry!
First of all, I wanted to thank you for the friend invite. Secondly, I would like to say that I agree. Unless we've overlooked something (which is possible based on how many times humans have overlooked things in the past), this seems like a very good theory. If no change is occurring, then the only way to get change to begin is through the choice of a conscious being to begin time. Anyways, have a wonderful weekend.
~ MTS
MrTalentSubber 1 year ago
Its always a pity whenever humans get closer to gods they always move further out of sight. First they lived on mountain tops then in the sky and now they moved out of space and time . Out of existence. You and your fellow followers should do the same .
frank3976 1 year ago
This thinking is logically flawed on many levels. Where did the 'Being' come from